but so far, there's been no breakthrough, with russia accusing nato of using �*cold war security methods'. this is the moment the two sides arrived for the talks earlier today. nato members have repeatedly said they won't accept russian security demands. but moscow is standing firm. we'll be taking a closer look at that in a moment. let's hear from nato secretary generaljens stoltenberg. he's been speaking to the bbc�*sjonathan beale. after these talks with russia, are you more optimistic that there will not be an armed conflict again in ukraine? it’s not be an armed conflict again in ukraine? �* , ., not be an armed conflict again in ukraine? �*, ., ,.,,, , not be an armed conflict again in ukraine? �*, ., , ., ukraine? it's not possible to say an hint ukraine? it's not possible to say anything with — ukraine? it's not possible to say anything with certainty - ukraine? it's not possible to say anything with certainty about. anything with certainty about confiict~ _ anything with certainty about conflict. what i know is there is a risk for— conflict. what i know is there is a risk for renewed use of force by russia — risk for renewed use of force by russia. that's exactly why they're meeting _ russia. that's exactly why they're meeting today. because we believe in a political— meeting today. because we believe in a political path to engage in good