channelled by their governments and regulations and financial incentives or disincentives. that's a very interesting point. i was talking to an australian big businessman the other day who's investing massively in green hydrogen technology, and he was telling me that in australia, the approach to this problem is very much about technology, not taxes — ie, australia is hoping fervently that technology can somehow deliver the clean energy future that the planet needs without inflicting too much pain on individual citizens. that may be wishful thinking, may it not? i think technology is one part of the solution, an important part of the solution, but i still believe there is a need for governments putting the right framework, giving the right signal to the investors and the citizens. in the absence of governments providing this general framework, i think if we leave everything to the markets, i don't think that we will be able to solve our climate problem. i am very clear about that.