Welcome to hardtalk. With me, zina badawi. There are not many elections where the two candidates are an incumbent president of 3a years standing and a pop star turned politician. Campaigning is under way for next months president ial election in uganda and my guest at the leading opposition figure in uganda, robert kyagula nyi, better known as bobi wine. In november, more than 50 of his supporters were killed by Security Forces during a rally which the authorities said violated covid 19 restrictions. Bobi wine has been badly assaulted and detained around 20 times since he began challenging president Yoweri Museveni. Why is he risking his life and does he have what it takes to lead uganda . Bobi wine in kampala, the capital of uganda, welcome to the programme. The president has been in power for more than 3a years. Here you are about half his age, ten under the other candidates standing against him, whats it like campaigning within these covid 19 restrictions . Thank you very much, zeinab. Campaigning in uganda under the rulership of president Yoweri Museveni, who has been in power for the last close to 35 years is actually less of a Real Campaign and more of a war. As the opposition, we are looked at as terrorists. President Yoweri Museveni is not treating us as political opponents, but he is treating us as terrorists. Recently, a lot of brutality and a lot of anger have been unleashed against citizens and indeed the president is treating this not as a president ial election, but as a military operation. We will come to that in a moment, but the fact is there are covid 19 restrictions in uganda, as there are in other countries in the world, and you have been summoned before the Electoral Commission a couple of times now because your rallies contravened those restrictions. Patience, a respected journalist, says, i wish bobi wine and people around him would always make sure they wear masks at rallies. You dont, do you . First and foremost, i do wear masks at most of the rallies that i attend. But besides that, i must remind the world that i was one of the first artists in the world to come out and sensitise the masses against the covid i9 pandemic. I am also a member of parliament, and in parliament, i personally raised it on the floor of parliament that we should indeed postpone the election if we could not carry out a safe, free and fair election. Crosstalk. Sorry to interrupt you. There are lots of pictures of you at your Campaign Rallies on social media and the rest of it, and you were not wearing a mask clearly, nor are people around you. So you are, as the Authorities Say, in violation of the restrictions imposed because of covid i9. Well, while sometimes we have not had the masks, especially when there is social distance between me and the people, it should be clear that the government of uganda has weaponised the covid i9 pandemic while the president carries out processions and large gatherings without social distance or without any masks. It has just become an offence of the opposition. It is seen as if the covid i9 pandemic only affects those in the opposition and not ones in government. Listen, i will put that to the president if i was speaking to him, but the fact of the matter is the allegations made about your conduct still hold. All right, let me get to the central plank of your accusations against the authorities. November 18th, youre prepared for a rally in an eastern town, which the authorities said was in breach of covid i9 guidelines because more than 200 people were there. So you were arrested. This triggered demonstrations in the capital and other major cities against your arrest. The police go in to try to break up these demonstrations and around 5a of your supporters are killed when police use live bullets. So what do you want to see happen now in relation to that particular atrocity . Indeed, i want to make it clear that the president actually called it a murder of those people because he came out and the fact is that he sent the army to take action against the unarmed protesters. We have raised the matter with the International Human rights bodies. We have raised the matter with all Development Partners and we continue to raise the matter demanding for an independent investigation into the brutal murder of the people. It should be remembered that among the people that carried out the murder of those unarmed civilians were people who were holding guns but not in police or military uniform, but they indeed were the ones commanding those in uniform. So it was a well organised murder. I have to come in here, of course, because the government would not accept what you have just said that they ordered the murder, and he put it to the people. In fact, the director of police in charge of operations said the circumstances under which we lost those lives is really regrettable and it would have been avoided if the officers had used tear gas instead. There is going to be an investigation and its under way, and indeed anybody who is found accused of those killings will be prosecuted. And that does not sound like the authorities turning a blind eye to that, what they just said. The minister of security actually came out a few days later and said that the police had the power to shoot and kill unarmed civilians, so that explains it. It was a sanction of the authorities. But the investigation is under way now and the current government position is that anybody found guilty of these killings will be duly prosecuted. So another accusation that the authorities make about your party, the National Unity platform, is of organising violence, spreading civil unrest and using social media to sow discord. A Police Spokesman says all the indicators reveal these events were notjust impromptu actions, but were part of a loosely coordinated campaign. Is that true . Well, the Police Spokesperson and indeed the Government Spokesperson have come out to explain the matter. Spokesperson have come out to explain the murder. However it is clear that very many human rights violations, very many murders have taken place and only explanation has been promised, but never to be brought to reality. Sorry to interrupt you here, but every time i put it to you, what has been said about you and your actions and your supporters there were these things government is saying, you come back and say but the government has done this, that and the other. I want to stick with what is being said about you and your supporters. The Authorities Say that and i quote bows and arrows, piles of tyres bottles, drums of fuel and evidence of mobile money transactions funding the rioters this is what they say is fuelling the unrest across the country and is attributed to your people. Well, i must say that it has been the heart of the current regime to try as much as possible to project and present the opposition as violent. It has not started with us. They did that with all the other opposition leaders that came before us. And i must also mention that the majority of people that were killed were citizens going about their business. As young as 15 years old and as old as 75 years old. And also, the majority of people, the reason for their killing was because they were putting on t shirts bearing my picture, reading free bobi wine. Lets look at your story. You have been an mp since 2017. There you were, this very famous singer, very popular in uganda, but you decide to go into politics. And two years ago, in 2018, you were severely beaten and you say tortured by the ugandan Security Forces after you were campaigning for an opposition candidate. You were detained and arrested and held and then you had to go to the us to have treatment. So what kind of impact has that had on you physically and perhaps even mental . And perhaps even mentally . Thank you very much. And also to add that two years ago when i was arrested and tortured, the government presented two machine guns and claimed that those machine guns had been found in my hotel room. That was another way to justify my brutalisation. So that brutalisation and the murder of my driver and many other innocent ugandans had a toll on my life. It has not left me the same. Im still recovering from the torture wounds and also many other people are recovering. But however it brought the resolve to me and to all other ugandans that nobody is safe and we must struggle and find our freedom, or at least we die trying to live free, because nobody is free or safe under the museveni dictatorship. So are you willing to risk your life, youre willing to die for your politics . Well, i would not call this politics. I would call this a struggle for freedom and living a realistic life. I must say that the values that for which we are standing for are values that ugandans hold. I must also add that like i said in the past that nobody is safe in uganda. You are often described as the ghetto president because you grew up in the slums of the kampala, although you actually come from a relatively prominent political family that fell on hard times. Your grandfather, your father, your brothers are all involved in politics. Do you kind of see it as the Family Business . Why did you want to go into it rather than stay in your immensely successful music career . Well, i would not tie it to family. I would only say that these are values that my grandparents and parents stood for, and i believe these are values that are universal to ugandans. I must also say that, yes, i was having an immensely successful music career. But success as an individual, it does not translate into success for the people. The same Common People that are responsible for my life through music. Your songs you sing a lot about social and political injustice, tackling poverty and all the rest of it, but, and now youre trying to do the same with your politics, but you know singing about injustice is very different from actually doing something about it, isnt it . And you are accused of not really having any political vision. You are just known for standing against the president and not having any really credible programme of Economic Management of the country. Well, what we stand for is not the president as a person, so what we stand against is not the president as an individual, but we are standing against a dictatorial regime presided over by the president , a leadership which is not the leadership of law, but it provides the power belonging to the people and the people having the right to live and enjoy their full rights and freedoms. What we are standing against is the mismanagement of our country. We believe that we are a country that deserves equal opportunity and equal rights for everybody. We believe in a country that provides equal and cheap and affordable ownership and formal education and health for everybody. And we believe in the revamping of our culture. We believe in human rights and the rule of law. These are values that the president once professed, and these are the values that he betrayed. These are values that we hope to regain together as a country. We dont have to be politicians, just need to know what we deserve and going right ahead and achieving what we deserve. But will that put food on the tables, particularly now that we have had so much damage to economies in africa because of the covid 19 pandemic . We believe that if the resources of the country are managed well, they can provide answers for the ongoing economic downtroddenness of the population. We also believe that the corruption that is rampant is cut down, we believe that resources of the nation can benefit people. For example. But thats on a programme though, is it . A prominentjournalist in uganda says your power base is a load of angry youths and if bobi wine becomes president , he has to reward his riff raff supporters with jobs, but they lack basic skills and experience for professionaljobs. Youre not really up to running a country, are you . You dont have the experience for it. Well, many of the intellectuals have argued that against us, that us not having experience to run a country, but we must remind those intellectuals that the president was our age and he was as despised as we are. And he achieved a lot of things in the first ten years of our country before he reduced it to personal property. I must also say, it is not me as an individual, but my supporters believe in a Strong Institution and not all knowing individuals that run the country. The country is run by institutions and not by individuals. I will tell you what the professor nic cheesman said, and he is a big africanist, and he says it is a mistake to dismiss a ruling party such as Yoweri Musevenis with all power and resources and you underestimate how strong and resilient the party and the state are and what you need to overcome them. You really have not got the wherewithal to succeed in defeating the president and the state, have you . Like i always say, it is not about me as an individual. It is about the people of uganda and its about the more than 80 that are younger than me that are under the age of 35, those that are finding themselves with 80 unemployment. It is about the majority of the people of uganda that face a health care system, that face a non functioning Justice System and those people of uganda that are most threatened in the past that they can stand against the well established and strong government. You are right, uganda is the youngest country in the world. 80 of the population is under 35 and 77 are under 25, the median age is only 17, but yet you have more than just youth appeal. Youve got to appeal to regions right across the country, and i want to ask you, how much nationwide appeal do you have from the people who on the whole belong to the community that pays allegiance to the king of uganda . What about western uganda, for instance, which is very much a museveni stronghold, and rural voters where he has a lot of support amongst the rural populations. Do you really have the appeal that goes as far as that . The mentality that the support base is according to regions is actually old and has been debunked. Initially, the current regime was claiming that i and the National Unity platform are only popular in central uganda where the natives are coming from. However we are campaigning in buganda and in northern uganda and support has been immense. We had been in eastern uganda and the support has been too much that the regime had to clamp down with brutality and murder to try to counter the support that we were getting. For the first time, our country is very united, united because we are of the same generation, but also united because of the pains that we have over a non functioning government and the aspirations and dreams that we have of a new uganda that we all believe in, especially as a young generation. I want to ask you, the aspirations of the new uganda. Your record is not without blemish, is it . In 2014 you gave your support to the governments anti homosexuality bill. Campaigners for gay rights said that your songs when you were singing in support of this move, incited homophobia. Thats something you must really bitterly regret when you talk of a new uganda, right . Interestingly, first of all i want to say that as i grow, i am opening my mind to people, even those that i disagree with, but also interestingly the president has museveni has in recent days come out to claim that we, in particular as the National Unity platform, are being supported by foreigners and homosexuals. So that is a contradiction on his side. But thats a sidebar because the question was you came out only six years ago saying you did not support gay rights and in fact that does not that collides with your vision that you were talking about, aspiration for a new uganda. I made a fair point, right . Like i was trying to say, as a leader i have come to believe in equal rights for all ugandans. Ive come to believe in the rule of law and the human rights for all ugandans. And i was trying to say that that is what makes us different from museveni, that does not believe in the rights of different people in uganda. But you say the rights of all ugandans, but you have asked for conditionality for aid, for instance, and uganda receives about 2 billion worth of aid every year and about 1 million from the us. Museveni is a very important man for western governments such as the United States and in europe because he supports the fight against extremism, he supports 1. 5 million refugees, hes a tough guy and you need a tough guy in a tough neighbourhood where youve got countries like south sudan and the drc with great instability. So hes a linchpin for western Foreign Policy in africa. Hes important. Yeah, we have always been raising it to the International Community and the Development Partners, most importantly the us, to be friends uganda, you should be with you it as a nation and not with museveni as an individual, and that is why we continuously call for institutions so uganda is ruled by institutions and not by an individual. The more the foreign powers are dealing with museveni as an individulal, the more the interests here serve the interests of him as a person. Yes, the us and indeed International Community has been instrumental in working with uganda. Uganda has been a strong pillar in maintaining stability in the region and also our refugee policy has been good. But this is a policy of a nation, it should not be a policy of an individual. The more the International Community deals with museveni as an individual is the more that they guarantor our instability and therefore a liability of the human rights and the rule of law in the region. Finally and recently, a political scientist in africa says you dont pose an electoral threat to museveni. Your threat is one to mobilise people onto the streets of the capital. He has people power being the ghetto president , that catapulted you to the forefront of uganda in opposition. That is really what you have to stick to, people power . People power in my own opinion is a representation of the majority of the people of uganda. And what the majority of people of uganda, because we are a democracy, is what should reign supreme. We believe that the voice of the people should reign supreme, that the citizens should be taken first over the president or those that govern over them. Therefore we believe that because we have the voice the majority, that voice should take precedent over an individual, the opinion of Yoweri Museveni. Bobi wine, in kampala, uganda, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. Hello. 0ur spell of unsettled and mild mid december weather is set to continue for another few days yet, before things get a little bit cooler into next week, but certainly for friday, its going to be a windy day, very mild once again with some heavy rain around. Now, the heaviest of the rain will be affecting south wales, where the met office haveissued an amber rain warning. That rain could be bringing some travel disruption and some flooding, up to 100mm falling over the Higher Ground of south wales. Now, through the course of the early hours of friday, that rain is moving its way in from the west. Throughout friday, its going to be heavy for the south west of england, wales, moving into northern england, into scotland as well. This is 3pm in the afternoon. Not only will there be a lot of heavy rain, it will be drier in the south east. But the gusts of wind will reach around 60 mph three exposed parts of the irish sea, 30 110 mph gusts of wind elsewhere. Northern ireland will see that rain clearing to leave sunshine and some scattered showers, but a wet end to the day for much of scotland, northern england, wales and the south west. Very mild once again, 13 14 degrees. We could see 15 celsius and one or two spots. That rain will continue its progression, across east anglia and the south east, during friday evening and overnight into saturday. So, again, its an unsettled picture as we head through into the first part of the weekend. Plenty of showers on the map first thing saturday, frost free certainly once again with overnight temperatures between about 7 11 degrees to start off your weekend. So the weekend will be dominated by an area of low pressure sitting out towards the north west. Were going to be seen showers rotating around that area of low pressure, driven in on quite a brisk south westerly wind, so still quite a mild direction, but a little bit cooler than its been over recent days. Lots of scattered showers, most of them in the west and along some of these exposed Southern Coasts as well. Sunny spells, nowhere immune to catching one or two showers, but generally driest in the east. Temperatures still around about 10 12 degrees, a touch down on recent days. Heading on into the second half of the weekend, and its a fairly similar story, with a mix of sunny spells and a few scattered showers, again mainly in the north and west, but some coming in along the English Channel as well. Not quite as warm by this stage, temperatures around about 8 11 degrees on sunday. Stays unsettled and a touch cooler as we head into the middle part of next week. Bye for now. This is bbc news, im Nancy Kacungira with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Us Cyber Security experts say a major hacking campaign, uncovered this week, posed a grave risk to the governments nuclear stockpile. No breakthrough in the post brexit trade talks, the eu and the uk both warn of major obstacles ahead. Safe, well and on their way home. Nigerian officials assure the parents of more than 300 schoolboys, ta ken captive by gunmen last week. And, the british actor jeremy bulloch, who played boba fett in the original star wars trilogy, has