Now, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. This years Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded to the un agency dedicated to feeding the hungry and fending off mass starvation the World Food Programme. This week, the award will be handed to my guest today, executive director of the wfp, david beasley, in recognition of the agencys worldwide effort to overcome the challenges of conflict and covid 19. 2020 has been a terrible year for those experiencing extreme hunger. Is there a real danger 2021 will be even worse . David beasley in washington, dc, welcome to hardtalk and many congratulations to you and the World Food Programme on winning the Nobel Peace Prize this year. Thank you, stephen. It really was quite a surprise, i can tell you that. Well, let me ask you what it means to you and your staff right around the world to be recognised in this way. Well, i think the Nobel Peace Prize committee was sending two very strong messages. Number one, thank you, World Food Programme, for your women and men, our 20,000 people that put their lives out on the line every single day, putting their lives at risk in war zones, conflict areas, natural disasters, doing everything they can to make this a safer world. And numbertwo, ithink it was a message, a prophetic message, saying to the world that their hardest work is yet to come. You know, i know you beacause i served in washington, dc for the bbc when you were governor of south carolina. I know youre never short of a word or two, but you said when word reached you out in the field in africa that you were actually the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, you couldnt find anything to say. Is that really true . It really was true, stephen. And you have to put it into context. I was in the middle of niger and id just been out in the field. We were negotiating access because we had extremist groups, alqaeda and isis, in the region, and so it was very tense conversations. And i was meeting with the government leaders. And all of the sudden, somebody comes busting into the room. And im like, what the heck . You know . And theyre like, Nobel Peace Prize and i was like, wow, 0k yeah, who won it . And they said, well, the World Food Programme. We won it you won it we won it and i was like, youre kidding me so, stephen, i really was at a loss of words. You know, you dont get that phone call often. Yeah, i think its fair to say that. It also strikes me, despite the wide smiles, this is a bittersweet thing because you are being recognised at a time when it is clearly the case that the challenges the World Food Programme faces, but more particularly the challenges that the People Living in the worlds most disadvantaged places face, those challenges are really getting worse by the day and the week and the month. Well, stephen, you hit right on it. I think the Nobel Peace Prize committee was sending a very clear message. The World Food Programme has not backed down. Theyve been there on the hardest places, making the case worldwide. And one of the things that i think the un struggled with, the un sometimes talks a language that nobody understands. And i remember when i was meeting with the secretary general after a few weeks of being in this new position. And i said, mr secretary general, i said, i dont know whats anybody saying. All these acronyms, what are they saying . And he says, i think you know how to talk to the people. And so one of the things that weve really been able to do is articulate a message of simplicity, put a human face on hunger and break through all the clutter. You know, in the last two years, if you turned on the television anywhere in the world, it was either brexit, brexit, brexit or trump, trump, trump, while we were having people starving all over the world. And heres whats really sad, stephen. When i arrived, there were 80 Million People on the brink of starvation. Im not talking about going to bed hungry. Im talking about on the brink of starvation. That number, in three years, rose from 80 million to 135 million pre covid people that dont know where the next meal is. Now comes covid, along with desert locusts, etc, etc, and that number is now 270 Million People around the world that dont know where the next meal is. Theyre marching toward starvation. Theyre marching toward famine. And so we are facing a crisis of unimaginary circumstances. The scale of the problem that youve just outlined suggests to me that you feel 2021 has all of the potential to be a catastrophe. I dont think the potential is the right word. Its going to be a catastrophe, stephen. I went to the United NationsSecurity Council back in april, because back in april, the leaders around the world were making decisions about covid sort of in a vacuum, without looking at the bigger picture, the consequences of lockdowns and shutdowns and ports and distribution points being shut down. And i said, youve got to be careful here. Otherwise the cure is going to be worse than the disease. So we must make decisions about the covid health pandemic, at the same time considering the hunger pandemic, because already in 2020, we were facing crisis in multiple places around the world. Then came desert locusts. Then came covid, economic deterioration and literally just catastrophic consequences. And now let me kind of paint the picture, because i said to the United NationsSecurity Council back in april that we will have famines in 2020 unless the World Leaders responded strategically, effectively and immediately. And they did. Many things were done. But the good news was most of the Economic Outlook for 2020 was based upon 2019 numbers, so we had a really robust economic aspect in 2020 early. But now 2021, the numbers economically are going down, economic contraction, and yet the needs are doubling. So were looking at 2021. You literally could be seeing famines of biblical proportions, maybe 30 some odd countries around the world, if we dont receive the funds and the access that we need. Now, i have no wish at all to sound cynical, but i dare say that some people watching this around the world will be rolling their eyes and saying, there we go again. Heres the leader of an International Humanitarian organisation which relies on annual begging, frankly, to donor countries around the world, painting a terrible dark picture because he needs to boost his own funding. Is there a little bit of that going on here . No, no. I tell you, anybody who wants to think that, come along with me and ill put you in the places that were talking about because its reality on the ground. When we talk about that 270 million, stephen, this isntjust poppycock rhetorical numbers. We can break it down on a country by country basis why its going to be worse here, why it wont be so bad here. And weve done those analysis. And if we get the funds we need, the access we need, we can avert famine. But let me tell you. Hang on. Before you go any further, before you go any further, david, ijust want to be clear about the numbers. As i understand it, youve said that the wfp needs 15 billion next year. Are you going to get 15 billion . No. No, this year, we will receive about eight point some odd billion. And we were able to avert famine, destabilisation and mass migration with those funds, but the numbers will double next year. We need 15 billion. We need 5 billionjust to avert famine in the countries that i was referring to. So i dont expect we will get the 15 billion, but we have to get 10 to 12 billion to really prevent notjust famine, but destabilisation and mass migration. Otherwise, its going to be a lot more expensive when you go after the fact versus prevention. Lets talk specifically about certain challenges that are at the top of your list. I know the World Food Programme has grave concerns about what is happening in yemen. Ive seen you talk about imminent danger of the worst famine the world has seen for many decades with regard to yemen. Do you think that the key players in that country im notjust thinking of the various authorities there are inside the country but those countries beyond its borders which wish to play a role in yemens future, and im thinking of everybody from saudi arabia to iran to the United States of america do you think they care about the scale of the humanitarian crisis . Stephen, yemen is the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. It is a disaster. We are supporting about 13 Million People as we speak out of 29 Million People. And let me say this, that 13 million, about 8. 9 million of them are getting half rations because we dont have the money, we dont have the access, we dont have all the things we need to do to reach the people. And because of that, the economic deterioration is already at rock bottom. The nutrition, the health of the people is at rock bottom. You can imagine with diphtheria and cholera, and now covid, the death rate is out of the roof, and now were running out of money. In fact, come january, were going to have to cut 50 rations down even further and we will be running out of money by april. It is a disaster and weve got to get the money quickly because we have to ship food from around the world into yemen. It doesnt happen overnight. So it is a disaster. I mean, literally, itsjust. Its heartbreaking. Its absolutely heartbreaking. It just strikes me that this isnt only about money, though. I mean, the guy who is still, for the next few weeks, the incumbent president in that building behind you, donald trump, who you campaigned for and supported in 2015 when he launched his run for the presidency, donald trump and his administration are committed to continuing arming saudi arabia, supplying weapons which we believe then get used in their military campaign in yemen. Now, its notjust about saudi arabia, but it strikes me that for you, as the leader of an International Aid organisation, you cant just sort of talk about the humanitarian problem without addressing the structural issues which ensure that so many millions of people are going hungry because their country just doesnt work. Well, let me tell you very clearly, and everyone remembers when i spoke out very clearly. You remember this about a year and a half ago, when the coalition had the blockade on the hudaydah port. And im a humanitarian leader now. I dont care where the chips fall. Im going to speak the truth, say it like it is no matter what. And i remember i wasjumping on the coalition really hard, and the houthis were like, thank you, thank you, thank you and i said, whoa, let me tell you, im not doing. Im not speaking like im speaking because im siding with you. When you cross that line, im going tojump on your back, too. Im going to speak the truth, let the chips fall where they may. Because in this role, i am a humanitarian, iam neutral, im not taking sides. Im doing whats best. 0ur. And i say i im talking about the World Food Programme. We are going to do whats best for the innocent victims of war and conflict. So, yes, we need money, but also we need access. And, stephen, we need the doggone war to end. Thats what needs to happen. It needs to be over. Youve been saying that for a long time. I remember reading reports about a visit you made to yemen in 2019, when you went to one particular hospital. You met a doctor who was trying to treat children, many of whom were on the verge of death from starvation. And you had to leave that hospital, i believe. You just couldnt take it any more. That was well over a year ago. And nothing has changed for the better. Well, actually, thats not. Thats not necessarily true because we did receive substantially more monies and greater access. But the stories youre pointing to, i remember walking into that hospital and talking to the doctor, and i said, you know, how many children do you have coming in per day . And he said, about 50. I said, well, how many can you treat at the hospital . He said, about 20, 25. I said, well, what do you do with the other 25, 30 . He says, we send them home to die. And as i was walking in the hospital, just heartbroken, i walked. You know, and when you go into a childrens ward of a hospital, usually youll hear laughter and all types of different noises. It was dead silence. It was like a morgue. And i walked in this one little room, stephen, and there was a little girl, maybe a year and a half years old, a year and a half. And ive got four children. So the little feet of this little girl were sticking out the blanket, and i thought, well, im going to tickle the little feet, get a little smile, and it was like tickling a ghost. And it absolutely just devastated me. I literally had to walk around the corner and just tear up, thinking, this is horrific. And so weve improved conditions substantially in 2018. But now now we are in worse conditions than we were in 2018. And thats why im jumping up and down again and doing everything i can. Im not going to stop. Im going to keepjumping up and down no matter what happens, because these innocent victims of war deserve our support. These are our brothers and sisters. This is humanity that were turning our back on right now. And its wrong. I think people will hear and see the passion that you bring to this, but would you acknowledge that right now there is around the world a political trend which suggests people faced with their own economic problems, still more so after covid 19, are turning inward . They are fatigued and they are wearied with the notion that they have to take responsibility for the problems of the rest of the world, including the poorest people . And frankly, they are fatigued, many of them, with the whole notion of traditional multilateralism. And again, turning to the guy in that building behind you, he was a siren voice in that way of thinking. Theres no doubt about that, and that was, when i got the phone call about doing this, iwas like, you know, i dont want a job, im not looking for somejob. And they said, well, youre the best person that can convince this new administration, and this was four years ago, that why strategic International Aid is needed. And so i call it the miracle on pennsylvania avenue, stephen, because at both ends of pennsylvania avenue from the white house, always. All the way down to the us capitol, weve been bringing republicans and democrats together in spite of the fact theyre fighting on everything, when it comes to food aid, its amazing how theyve come together. And let me tell you, in the United States alone, when i arrived, we were receiving about 1. 9 billion from the United States. Today, were receiving about 3. 5 billion this year, 3. 1; billion last year. So the United States has not backed down, whether its bush, 0bama. Well. Yeah. Or trump or biden. Well. Well have support from washington, dc. I understand that youve continued to get your money at World Food Programme, but you cannot ignore other things that have happened within the humanitarian sphere. Youve seen your erstwhile ally, donald trump, walk away, for example, from the world health 0rganization. And you at the World Food Programme, for the last few months, have been working hand in glove with the who to ensure that the worlds poorest people get some sort of protective equipment, get what basics they need to safeguard against the spread of the pandemic. I just would like you to be honest with me. What is your feeling about the way, notjust world health organization, but the Trump Administration has dealt with these sort of multilateral institutions, generally . Well, ill leave the politics up to the politicians. And im a humanitarian, but we have an incredible working relationship with who. And to give you an example, in this covid pandemic, weve worked with who because were the logistics arm for the United Nations and for the humanitarian sphere. When Airline Industries were shutting down, we were stepping up, delivering supplies, over 85,000 cubic metres of testing equipment, ventilators, masks, gowns, whatever it took, as well as personnel, first responders, doctors, working with who to get out there on the field and get it done. We ignore the politics. We stay focused on what we do, and we do it really well. And thats why the Nobel Peace Prize committee said, hey, wfp, thank you, but you got a lot of work to do. And so we get support from the United States. But its notjust the United States, stephen, because this is trying times for people all over the world. No, well. Leaders all over the world. Youre absolutely right. Its not just about the United States. I would like to have your thoughts, for example, on the declaration of the uk government that its no longer prepared to meet the un sanction threshold of 0. 7 of National Income going to foreign aid. The uk government, having met that commitment for years, is now saying its going to cut it because of economic pressures at home to 0. 5 . And thats symptomatic of something that is happening in many parts of the world. Just as you were saying that 2021s going to be a disaster and we need at least 12 billion. The crunch is coming. No, it is coming, and this is. Ive been travelling extensively over the past many months, meeting with leaders in the uk, germany, the eu, the United States, the gulf states, saying, look, youre not going to have enough money in 2021 to allocate for all interests. Youre going to have to prioritise when it comes to famine, destabilisation and mass migration. The uk has been an incredible partner to the World Food Programme for many, many years. And i know theyve got some difficult political decisions to make, but we are very appreciative of what theyve done. But i have little doubt they will continue to step up. If we paint a bigger picture, do you feel its now incumbent upon people like you to speak out about Climate Change in a way that you never have before, and the degree to which Climate Change is going to present a massive long term problem to keeping the world, particularly the poorest parts of the world, sufficiently fed . Well, the poorest pay the price for Climate Change. And they really just receive the blunt end of the stick, so to speak. And so when i talked earlier about 80 Million People on the brink of starvation four years ago, to now 270 million, of which half of thats covid. The other half, primarily, has been driven by man made conflict. The number two driving force, stephen, has been climate changing climate extremes. And i can. Ive talked to a lot of my friends whove said, well, about this Climate Change. Ive said, look, you can debate all day long what you think may or may not be causing a change. But come with me and let me show you in the sahel, let me show you in niger, when theres less rain or theres more flash flooding and the consequences, and these people dont have time for you to debate whats real. Weve got to come in and change the atmosphere for them, work with them so they can survive. And thats why we have food for assets programmes, rehabilitating land, better seeds, better productivity so they can survive while the World Leaders come to fruition of changes that will, in fact, make this a safer and better world. One thing i want to ask you, in your handling of what you see as a looming, massive crisis of starvation around the world, is whether you think its time for you and others to reach out to the worlds richest individuals, to, in a sense, bypass governments with some of the political problems weve talked about and reach out to the jeff bezoses and the bill gates and the other richest individuals . Because you tweeted just a week or two ago, 2. 7 trillion of additional wealth created in four months by the worlds billionaires during the height of covid 19. We need just 5 billion to save millions from famine. What am i missing . Help me. What response did you get . Yeah. Well, were still. Were still in the early stages of this, but, stephen, what youve hit on is, im not asking them to step up annually. Im saying, the world has a crisis at hand and the world needs for you to step up right now, on this one time basis, and prevent mass famine, destabilisation and migration. There are 2,200 billionaires around the world. They have 10 trillion of wealth. 2. 7 trillion of wealth was created by these 2,200 billionaires injust april, may, june and july. And so we need 5 billion, im like, whatam i missing . Come on, please help. The world needs you. Governments are stretched right now because. Please understand, in 2020, governments put up 19. 7 trillion in economic stimulus packages, covid and health care packages to respond, and that moneys not going to be available for 2021. So 2021 is looking horrific. So we need these billionaires, and, i mean. Give some money back to help people in this one time crisis. Show the world you care. Please, we need your help, and we need it now. A last question for you, and it comes out of you describing breaking down in tears in yemen. Ijust wonder, in the job you have right now, whether you ever feel utterly helpless and hopeless . Because the situation is dire. You do your best, but it seems, often it looks like sticking plasters, rather than really addressing the true sickness of the patient. Do you feel hopeless . You know, when you get out there in the field, and i spend a lot of my time out there in the field, in the war zones, with the children that are dying, and you see these children with hope in their eyes, no matter the circumstances, you know, i was doing an interview one time on. On yemen, in fact, about a year and a half ago. Scott pelley with 60 minutes, you know who im talking about. Mmm. And we were de micing, stephen, and he looked at me and he said, you know, youve got the greatestjob on earth, saving people all over the world. And i said, scott, i really do. I said, but i will Say Something that you hadnt thought of thats going to bother you. And he looked at me like, what could that be . And i said, i dont go. Go to bed at night thinking about the children we save. I go to bed at night weeping over the children we couldnt save. And i said, when we dont get enough money, we have to choose which children eat, which children dont eat. I said, how would you like thatjob . Its easy to get hopeless, but we cant do it. We owe it to these children around the world. We owe it to the innocent victims of war and conflict. We owe it to them to give them hope. And the World Food Programme, were going to continue to do that at all costs. David beasley, thank you very much for joining me on hardtalk. And let me send my congratulations again to the World Food Programme. Thank you very much. Thank you, stephen. Hello. In comparison to recent mornings, thursday gets off to a relatively mild to start but not very inspiring skies for the majority first thing. A lot of cloud around, gloomy, and we will be stuck with that cloud in many areas throughout the course of the day. Its courtesy of an area of low pressure, a big area of low pressure which actually is a combination of smaller low pressure centres one to the south west of the uk this morning could bring some showery rain in here. The tail end of another one to the north west will, i think, bring some more persistent rain through the course of the day into western scotland, gradually tracking it a little further eastwards. Some showers will push across wales into the north west of england as the day pans out as well. The best chance of any brightness probably in a few sheltered eastern spots across east anglia stretching up into lincolnshire. Temperatures around average at best, typically 8 9, perhaps 11 for plymouth. But look towards the west and youll see another band of rain approaching. Now, this one tends to mean business. It will produce some heavier rain for all areas as it tracks its way eastwards. Its tied in with another one of those smaller low pressure centres we saw as part of that big one at the start. But clear skies look like they could just hang on overnight to give us a patchy frost from the north east of england and eastern scotland initially on friday. But the day overall is dominated by increasing winds and some rain pushing its way eastwards, but this area of low pressure will also manage to pull in some comparatively mild air to the south of the uk. You can see the amber colour here on the air mass picture behind me. So, actually, if we do see the sun coming out on friday, it could well turn out to be one of our warmest afternoons across the uk if we compare the whole of the weekjust gone. And the best place to see the sun at the moment, it looks like probably southern counties of england. We could widely see double figures here where the cloud lingers. Further north, though, and some rather persistent rain, probably 7 9 just about covers it. Now, for the weekend blink and youll miss it but theres a little ridge of High Pressure in there. Yes, that low still whirling away towards the west but saturday looks like a quieter, clearer, drier day. But as you can see, that low isnt giving up the ghost any time soon. For saturday, a little bit cooler, quite cloudy, but not a bad day. Sunday, milder but were back with the wet and windy conditions. This is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Iam i am sally bundock. Major differences remain after crucial brexit trade talks between borisjohnson and eu chief ursula von der leyen, but the talking continues. The Us Government wants to break up facebook over digital monopoly concerns, in a move that could force the company to sell off instagram and whatsapp. The chinese city of wuhan launches an exhibition to mark one year since the first case of coronavirus was reported. But is the battle over the pandemic, really over . An experimental rocket belonging to elon musks Spacex Company explodes while attempting to land