Thats it from me, and we will be back tomorrow and do his will be here at the top of the hour. Now on bbc news. Its hardtalk with stephen sackur. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. Ethiopias federal armed forces have launched the final phase of their assault on tigrayan rebels in the north of the country. International observers have voiced deep concern about possibly devastating humanitarian consequences. And this after many hundreds have already been killed and hundreds of thousands displaced after three weeks of fighting. My guest is ethiopias attorney general, gedion timothewos. His Prime Minister, abiy ahmed, pledged to bring the country together. Why has it gone so horribly wrong . Gedion timothewos in addis ababa, welcome to hardtalk. Thanks for having me. Are we about to see a humanitarian catastrophe as a result of your Prime Ministers decision to launch a final offensive on the tigrayan regional capital of mekelle . We have to understand that this crisis is something that has been forced upon this administration and the Prime Minister. It was not by choice. Ourforces in the Northern Command, based in the Tigray Regional state, were attacked. It was a perfidious and treasonous attack. The objective of the tplf top brass was to take over the armaments of the Northern Command and to overthrow this government. So the Prime Minister and this administration were left with no option but to respond with force. And this administration is taking every precaution possible to ensure that civilians will be protected and to ensure that the humanitarian challenge will be kept to the minimum. Well, let me stop you there, because that isnt clear to me. Im going to quote to you something said by a spokesman for the Ethiopian Armed forces just four days ago. He said there would be no mercy for mekelles residents when its soldiers encircle the city. First of all, that quote was of a colonel in the army, in the field. He was not a spokesperson, as some have said, of the army or even the administration. But with respect, its even more alarming. If a senior officer is saying that, its even more alarming. These are the men who are now marching on mekelle. It is the commander in chief of the army and the Army Spokesperson who communicate and convey the administrations policy. And the colonel, even in that clip, was referring to the tplf militia. He was calling on them to surrender. And as far as humanitarian, as far as civilians are concerned, the administration and the colonel himself in that clip were calling upon civilians to disarm, to stay clear from obvious military targets, like military installations. Youre the attorney general in your government. You must be concerned when, for example, michelle bachelet, the un high commissioner for human rights, expresses deep alarm at the reports of the heavy build up of Ethiopian Military equipment around mekelle. She says the aggressive rhetoric on both sides, it should be said, is dangerously provocative. And she said, talks such as that about no mercy could actually constitute a war crime if it is then carried out. Youre the attorney general. What are you going to do about it . I must point out that equating the government and the tplf top brass is wrong, both morally and legally. The federal administration is the Lawful Authority to administer the country. It has every right to deploy forces in tigray and enforce law and order, while, on the other hand, the regional administration, the tplf, does not have the right to raise an army and attack the Northern Command. The attack perpetrated against the Northern Command and the previous provocations of the tplf left the government no option but to use force to impose law and order. I must also point out that the government has been at pains to avoid this kind of scenario. For more than two years, we have been urging and pleading with the tplf leadership to resolve differences in a peaceful manner. Elders from all phases, as well as traditional leaders, went all the way to mekelle to urge the tplf to come to the table. But these overtures were rebuffed. They were ridiculed. Mm. But, mr attorney general, it strikes me that you do have choices in your government, and you also have to look at the situation as it stands today. We know that many hundreds of people have died as a result of the three weeks or so of fighting. We know that hundreds of thousands of civilians have been displaced, including more than 40,000 who have been forced to flee into neighbouring countries. This is already a humanitarian crisis. So your choice is simple do you push ahead with the military offensive and cause a much greater catastrophe, or do you pause and look for some sort of negotiated solution . Are you prepared to countenance the latter . If an attack was committed against an army base in any federal country, and if a Regional State or a Regional Party tries to. To take over the heavy armament and artillery and the weaponry of the army in any country, the response couldnt be different. You would not see it with a Political Party that was to launch rockets at heavily populated cities and threatens the civilian population, threatens the national government. The National Army has been attacked. A red line has been crossed, and we have to enforce law and order. If we were to sit at the negotiating table with these kind of renegade elements, that will send the wrong signal, and every Political Party would get the idea that, if they were to commit these kind of acts, they would get a seat at the table, they would get an international platform. We would be incentivising. Incentivising violence and perpetuating a culture of impunity, and were not willing to do that. More than anything else right now, it is thus the most urgent of humanitarian issues. The un says that shortages have become very critical in tigray for the population of six million people. They talk about fuel running out, cash running out. People have no money to pay for food. And already 600,000 people who rely on monthly food rations have not received them for the last month. How many people are you prepared to see pushed toward starvation . And indeed, how many people are you prepared to see die before you rethink the military first strategy . The National Emergency preparedness and Response Commission has finalised its needs assessment. A Technical Team was sent to the field to conduct an assessment and, based on that assessment, humanitarian access is. Humanitarian access routes are being facilitated for camps, and sites are already being set up. So the Relevant Ministry and Government Agencies have already started their work to ensure that the appropriate humanitarian relief and aid will reach those who are in need. I must also point out that at this point in time, we have reached the final phase of the operation. Most of the Tigray Regional state is under the control of the federal government, so we can provide humanitarian relief unhindered. The last phase of the operation relates to only one city and most of the territory of the region. The Regional State of tigray will be accessible for humanitarian purposes. The un commissioner for human rights says reports continue to emerge of arbitrary arrests and detentions, killings as well as discrimination and stigmatisation of ethnic tigrayans. Would you accept, mr attorney general, there is an ethnic element to this conflict and the way it is being prosecuted on the ground . You have to understand that the tplf is an ethnic path from its genesis, the way its organised. Its an ethnic party. Its leaders, its membership, its all from the same ethnic group. Thats in the nature of the party. So most of its operatives, most of its supporters and virtually all of its members are from the same ethnic party. So when that party engaged in criminal activity, when it operates like a criminal enterprise, unfortunately, the Law Enforcement response might have an ethnic element to it, as well. But that is not from the design or intention of the federal government. Well. That is the very nature of the Political Organisation itself. When you say that the governments response might have an ethnic element to it, as well, i think many people around the world are going to be worried about that. Let me quote to you a recent tweet from jake sullivan, who is to bejoe Bidens National security advisor. He says, im deeply concerned about the risk of violence against civilians in and around mekelle, including potential war crimes. And the eu Foreign Policy chief, josep borrell, has talked about his great concern of ethnic targeted violence. He says that he sees the possibility of huge violations of human rights and International Humanitarian law. The International Community fears war crimes on a massive scale. We understand the concern of the International Community. The administration has repeatedly issued statements and given instructions to ensure that civilians are protected and also to ensure that there will not be arbitrary and discriminatory conduct on the part of our Law Enforcement agencies. As i have pointed out earlier, the tplf is an organisation that is organised along ethnic lines, so it might give an appearance that measures taken against this group have a certain slant, but that is not what the government is doing. I must also point out that the government is taking extreme caution and care to ensure that civilians will be protected and they will not come in harms way. For example, although the army had reached mekelle a few days ago, the government gave a three day grace period to ensure that civilians will have some time to evacuate and will be able to minimise humanitarian disasters to ensure that well be able to minimise damage to civilians. The tigrayans say that this is actually part of a much bigger story in which we see Prime Minister abiy ahmed backing away from his opening sort of few months in power, when he talked about unifying the country, coming together, a new era of freedom. And according to the tigrayans, what they have seen is a systematic oppression of their political rights, their right to autonomy and to self government. They say that their elections in september were declared illegal by the central government. They say that top officers in the federal army, in the Northern Command, were purged simply because they were tigrayan. What they say is that theres a pattern here that the abiy ahmed government is no longer prepared to countenance their autonomy. You have to distinguish between tigrayans and the tplf. They are not one and the same. That is the problem in the way you are constructing the question. The tplf is one organisation. The governments problem is not even with the entirety of the tplf, its not with the rank and file member of the tplf. It is with the oligarchic element within the tplf who have chosen to resort to violence to advance their political objective. And as far as what the tplf stand is in relation to the reforms are concerned, from day one, the tplf has been trying to derail the reform of this administration. They have opposed the Prime Ministerfrom day one. They have been carrying out various provocations. They have been inciting and instigating violence, ethnic clashes in various parts of the country. So this is our problem with the tplf. The tplf wants to regain the power it lost. The economic and political dominance it had, the privilege it had. And we are saying that cant happen. But, mr attorney general, i might find that argument more convincing were it not for the fact that the discontent of the tigrayans you say the tplf, but many tigrayans is matched by discontent in other parts of your country. There are many different groups in your country who look at what abiy ahmed is doing today and say that he is no longer bringing the country together, he is governing in a way which is repressing and oppressing different ethnic groupings inside ethiopia. Mr sackur, if you look at the reality on the ground, dissidents, Political Parties that have been in exile, the 0gaden National Liberation front, 0romo liberation front, all sorts of Political Parties have returned to ethiopia. We have a more vibrant Political Landscape now than ever before. We are enjoying more popularism, we are embracing diversity and are seeing the reforms bear fruit. But if youd told me. Sorry to interrupt, but if youd told me all of that six months after abiy ahmed came to power, that might have been persuasive, but look at the reality today. You have many, many people in the 0romia region who are disgusted with what they see as the repressive tactics of the federal government. We have a recent Amnesty International report which looks back at the last year in 0romia and finds that the Security Forces have carried out, quote, extrajudicial executions, arbitrary arrest and detention, torture and other forms of ill treatment, forced evictions. I could go on. You are the attorney general. You were appointed to stand up for the rule of law and you are letting so many of your fellow countrymen down. We have conducted our own investigation about the amnesty report that you are referring to. We have pointed out the flaws and problems in that report, and this office, not only this office, but this administration has taken issues of human rights very seriously. We have been trying to bring to account those who have committed systematic and gross human rights violations. That is one of the reasons why we find ourselves at war with the tplf. The tplf was not willing to honour warrants issued against the former spy chief who was responsible for these kinds of gross human rights violation. They want to ensure impunity for these kind of individuals. So i think it is a bit difficult to accept these kind of accusations when they come from that corner. But i am mindful that you are trained in constitutional law. You were put into this office to be a beacon of hope for ethiopians that things were going to be different, and now look at the conclusions of experts on ethiopian politics, like kjetil tronvoll, whos in norway, but nonetheless is an expert on ethiopia at his peace and conflict studies centre. He says, it seems to me. Kjetil is a good friend. Hang on, let me finish. It seems to me, he says, the political transition that abiy ahmed promised has stalled. The government is relapsing into authoritarian practices. I beg to differ with his assessment of the situation. If you ask most ethiopians, its clear to us whos trying to derail the reforms, whos trying to turn the country into an ungovernable space. Tplf wants to return to power. Towards that, they are trying to bring about the disintegration of the country. Getachew reda, one of the spokesperson of the tplf, openly said that the relationship that the tplf wants to have with the centre is very much akin to the relationship between somaliland and mogadishu. And for that to happen, they have to turn ethiopia into. Into a situation very much like somalia. They have to turn ethiopia into a stateless society. You know what. If i may say so, mr attorney general, you know what your critics are saying about you . They say that you were appointed as an independent technocrat and you have become, in the course of your two years of association with this government, you have become nothing but a tool of a new bout of repression. They can say whatever they want. I am in public service, i understand that im subject to criticism, but i know that we are on the right side of history and when the final chapter is written, it will be clear who was doing what, who stood for the cause ofjustice and rule of law. The tplf wants to continue with its impunity, it wants to ensure that it will have undue influence, and towards that end, they are trying to destabilise the country, and we cannot let that happen. You can pile the blame on the tplf for all of the different problems that ethiopia faces today and the many different regions where many of your people seem so desperately unhappy with the government right now, but i am mindful that it is just a year since abiy ahmed was given the nobel peace prize. How much has changed, injust one year, to the point where the International Crisis group, a respected, independent group of international analysts, are saying that the damaging conflict we now see in ethiopia risks ripping the state asunder . Do you agree with that . As i have pointed out earlier, if this kind of situation has happened in any country, if an army base was attacked in scotland or wales, the commander in chief, the head of government, would have to respond to that. Just because the Prime Minister has been awarded the nobel peace prize, it doesnt mean that he stops being a commander in chief. He has a constitutional duty to protect the political and territorial integrity of the nation. He has to ensure that the troops are protected and they are not slaughtered like lamb. But my question, mr attorney general, is whether, just one year after receiving the nobel peace prize, abiy ahmed risks overseeing an ethiopia which is sinking into civil war. If the Prime Minister was to let the tplf go on with the kind of things that they have been doing, if he had let them acquire the heavy weaponry they wanted to acquire by attacking the Northern Command, yes, we would have descended into that kind of situation. But by taking the measure we are taking right now, we will be able to avert that possibility. The Prime Minister, being a man who wants to resolve things peacefully, has done everything possible, everything conceivable in the last two and a half years to resolve differences with the tplf in a peaceful manner until the tplf attacked the Northern Command. Just two days before the attack, the Prime Minister was in contact with the chairperson of the tplf. Even prior to that, there were many formal and informal efforts to ensure that the tplf will come to the table. How real is the risk of civil war . As you have noted earlier, we are in the final phase of this operation, which means that we expect that rather quickly we will be able to finalise our campaign and we will be able to rebuild tigray, we will be able to resettle those who have been displaced and to heal the wound that has been inflicted on the nation. Gedion timothewos, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk from addis ababa. Thank you very much. Hello there. If you need to head out on the roads on friday morning, fog could cause 1 2 problems, certainly some Poor Visibility in places particularly across parts of england and wales. The fog slow to clear through the day and it will feel cold out there. Two weather fronts, one to the northwest, one to the south bringing some cloud and patchy rain. But in between, very light winds, temperatures have been dropping, its going to be a very cold start to friday morning. Widely around freezing, some spots below and we will also see some fog. Indeed, some freezing fog across parts of england into east wales as well. These are the areas most likely to be affected. Slightly different across the far southeast, here its more likely cloud bringing the odd spot of rain. Some early sunshine through wales, parts of northern england, and then for Northern Ireland and scotland, its a slightly different story again. This band of cloud and weather front bringing some outbreaks of very patchy rain, and that band of cloud with those bits and pieces of rain not moving far at all through the day. The fog struggling to shift as well across those parts of england and wales starting off so murky. I think in many places, it willjust linger as low cloud all day long. A bit of rain creeping in towards the English Channel coasts. Temperatures, if you stick with fog all day long, maybe just 3 4 degrees. Even in some brightness, 8 9 the best we can expect. And then through friday night, the fog will once again reform with a lot of low cloud and some spots of rain and drizzle working northwards across england and wales. Lowest temperatures likely to be across the far north of england, also southeast scotland some spots here will see a frost because of clear skies overhead. And there will be a slice of sunshine for some on saturday. Particularly across scotland, perhaps Northern Ireland as well. But for england and wales a lot of cloud, some misty, murky conditions. Temperatures just a little bit higher, though, down towards the south, 11 12, possibly 13 degrees. The milder airjust trying to sneak its way in. Now for the second half of the weekend, High Pressure remains in charge this frontal system up to the far north west might just bring a little bit of rain in northern and northwestern scotland. Otherwise a lot of drier weather, but again a lot of cloudy weather and any fog for the morning will struggle to clear during the day, and those temperatures for most of us in single digits, at best around 10 degrees. This is bbc news. Im Lewis Vaughan jones with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. President trump says he will leave the white house if the Electoral College certifiesjoe biden as the election winner, even as he continues to deny the reality of his defeat. Fans line the streets of buenos aires to say goodbye to football hero maradona on the way to the cemetery where he has been buried next to his parents. Drugs giant astrazeneca is to expand current trials of its Coronavirus Vaccine to clarify effective dosages. Ethiopian refugees mass on the border with sudan as the government launches its final offensive against rebel