Its about half past four in the morning. It is time now for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab the economic fallout of covid 19 has been tough, and 110w covid 19 has been tough, and now with new waves of the virus, restrictions on Economic Activity are being reimposed in many countries. The European Union is a wells second largest and wealthiest economy after the United States and accou nts after the United States and accounts for a large portion of the global economy. It has suffered badly from coronavirus. How confident is it of making a recovery . My guess is the european commissionerfor the guess is the european commissioner for the economy, paolo gentiloni, who, until 2018, was Prime Minister of italy. Commissioner paolo gentiloni, welcome to hardtalk. There are 3 million covid 19 cases in the European Union, and there have been around a quarter of a million deaths. How worried are you that these new waves could cost more lives and livelihood . Well, indeed, there is a extremely high level of uncertainty. I think we will never forget this 2020, or the human costs and for the economic consequences. As human costs and for the economic consequences. As far as the economic consequences are concerned, as the economic consequences are concerned , we as the economic consequences are concerned, we are in a contradictory situation, because recovery is under way since a couple of months after a terrible second quarter, but the speed of the economy is losing momentum, exactly because of the uncertainty because of the uncertainty because of the uncertainty because of this new contagion. How the situation will evolve when we have after the new contagion is, also new hospitalisation, these other question marks or politicians, entrepreneurs and our families. As you just said, the recovery has been rather faltering we have heard that coronavirus crises are lasting longer than originally thought and it could ta ke originally thought and it could take some countries is to return to growth. Do you agree that it could take years for some eu countries to see proper recovery . Well, we will have more accurate forecasts at the beginning of november, but what is sure now is that after the second quarter, very, very difficult and after the speed of the recovery we had injuly and august, things are now slowing down, and then it is very clear that we have a very differentiated situation. Among european countries, some more affected, less than 18 of gdp, others are less affected, 4 , and among economic sectors, we have some economic sectors, imes, travel, tourism, entertainment, that will take a long time to recover. 0k, will it take years . I think we will not be able, probably, at the end of 2021 to be again at the level of gdp we had at the end of 2019. So you are forecasting that the European Union economy is shrinking by about 8 on average, correct . 8. 3 . But my question is, could it take yea rs question is, could it take years for a proper recovery in some countries . I know that you have just outlined that this is doing this and this is doing that, but could it take years . Well, what we know is that we will have, in 2021, a rebound that, for the moment, the different forecasts are predicting around 5 6 , so at the end of 2021, we will not be again at the level of growth that we had before the pandemic. European Union Leaders have got to be really bold, havent you . And really reimagine the economic landscape in the European Union stopping the secretary general of the United Nations told me on hardtalk last month that the coronavirus pandemic resents an opportunity to build back better, more resilient, more green and more inclusive. Do you agree with him that you need really Bold Thinking . Absolutely. I dont think that our goal should be to go back to normal. And indeed, the effort of the European Union is doing with this unprecedented economic funding is exactly to try to build a greener, more resilient, more competitive, more inclusive society. And i think that this is our common goal and i have to say that what we were able to decide in such a short time after the crisis, for the experience of the European Union is really unprecedented. Are you doing enough, though, commissioner . Because lets just take jobs. Thats a huge worry for everybody, some studies suggest that 60 millionjobs everybody, some studies suggest that 60 million jobs are at risk. We have got unemployment across the eu roughly 7 but for young people is as high as 1796. For young people is as high as 17 . So do you think, collectively, you are doing enough to keep people employed . I think the first reaction was, of course, a reaction to support companies and jobs, to avoid losing companies and jobs, and these efforts were more or less successful in the European Union because of the large amount of schemes that we have two supportjobs in companies. Completely different from other parts of the world where you have a sudden increase of millions and millions of unemployed, but we know that this relatively low increase of unemployment rates is hiding a different reality, the different reality is that we are, in any case, losing some more precariousjobs, especially for younger people, and we have massive drops in hours worked, so yes, the unemployment is not skyrocketing thanks to these schemes of support, but at the same time, behind this picture, we have more precariousjobs that we are losing and we have a massive drop in hours worked. So the autumn will be absolutely decisive to keep jobs and have selective measures to keep the economy going. But hang on, john hurley says europe has been successful at dampening the initial effects of the crisis, as you have just outlined, but in all likelihood he says, unemployment is going to come home to roost. That is going to bea home to roost. That is going to be a shakeout and it is going to be fairly ugly. Hes right, isnt he . Theres going to be mass unemployment because at the moment we are propping up these jobs, they are the moment we are propping up thesejobs, they are kind of zombiejobs as thesejobs, they are kind of zombie jobs as the oecd has described them. Of course i am concerned about Zombie Companies and zombie jobs. Concerned about Zombie Companies and zombiejobs. But iam companies and zombiejobs. But i am concerned mostly on companies and jobs, so i think that it was the correct choice to act immediately and to give a general support. Now, we have two make this support more selective in the next months, and we need also a soft landing from a general support to companies, jobs, to a more selective one. I think if we are able to do this, we will avoid a massive unemployment crisis, and this is something that all european nations are working on. So how would you decide . Lets take the aviation industry, for example. 22,000 jobs lost in germany, are you saying that perhaps europe turns its back on the aviation industry, for instance, and says look, lets look elsewhere stopping the Digital Economy or whatever, to really have proper qualityjobs . Whatever, to really have proper quality jobs . Well, of course we will have a transformation. I dont think that the level of crisis that we are now seeing in some sectors, you were mentioning aviation but it is also tourism in general, sport, entertainment, i dont think that this deep crisis will last, but of course in these sectors, last, but of course in these sectors , recovery last, but of course in these sectors, recovery will be much slower, until these sectors need to be strongly supported for a longer time than others. At the same time, i think we decided something at european level on our state aid rules that made possible for Member States to support these sectors in crisis with public money, which was, as you know, something that our competition rule didnt allow until six months ago, so we enabled countries to support these sectors. We will have transformation, because we will have greenjobs, we transformation, because we will have green jobs, we will have jobs connected to digitisation, and we will lose some jobs. But thats going to take, sorry to interrupt you, but thats going to ta ke interrupt you, but thats going to take time, isnt it . We have seen recently for instance restau ra nt seen recently for instance restaurant as in marseille in france protesting against the measures that have meant the restau ra nts measures that have meant the restaurants are closing down affecting their livelihood. We saw protests, protesters burning tyres in barcelona because a car plant was being closed there. How worried are you about social unrest is the realities think in . Of course i am worried. We saw some demonstration, you were mentioning in marseille and barcelona, we saw them also in germany. Of course this is a very delicate balance to strike between personal freedom, safety, and the economy. At the end of the day, i think that the European Response to this crisis has been able, in these recent months to strike a good balance. We had transparency, we had safety, despite the deep humanitarian crisis, and we have also a level of cohesion in our countries. But you are right. The risk in the months to come is that uncertainty could create social unrest. We put on the table several tools also to strengthen the support tojob schemes, also to strengthen the support to job schemes, ups also to strengthen the support tojob schemes, ups killings of workers, also at the european level and this is what we have to do in these times to help workers to up skill and be able to find newjobs or to be stronger in keeping theirjobs. All right, and the is also animated in part by those who resent the restrictions on their freedom resent the restrictions on theirfreedom is. We have seen in london for instance, protesters clashing with police because they are saying, we dont want these restrictions and the spacing and the masks and the spacing and the masks and the spacing and the masks and the rest of it. How can european leaders carry their citizens with them and there a real risk of anger spilling over on the streets, there . There is this risk, but i am definitely confident on the strength of democracy, liberty, our political system based on transparency and the rule of law. I dont think that this is a time for managing these crises in an authoritarian way. We know that our system needs a lot of public discussions, baby of differences between different institutions and regional institutions in our countries, the differences among european Member States, but at the end of the day, i think the european citizen knows that we have transparency in how we have managed the safety crisis, and how we are dealing with our economy, and this is i think, a winning card for the near future. You have mentioned how the European Union has responded to the coronavirus pandemic, you have set up this recovery fund, 750 billion euros, the European Central bank, of course the European Bank of the eurozone is asking for this find to made permanent. Is that something you could consider, because you are going to need to stay with this for quite a while . Could it be permanent . Well, we didnt decide at the moment to make it permanent, to have permanent funding. We decided something unprecedented, someone called it a hamiltonian movement, a copernican movement, a copernican movement, a copernican movement, a river cody and moment rubiconian moment, but the fact is we took a very important decision, an unprecedented one, and the experience of the european project shows that when you ta ke project shows that when you take an unprecedented decision, if the decision produces good results, then you will repeat it, but until now we do not make a permanent initiative. It, but until now we do not make a permanent initiativem that a good result though, because there are net gain is but there are also those who stand to lose like austria, denmark and holland. Is it fair that some countries are putting money into this fund and they dont have as much to say about how the recipient countries can spend it because this has been a big area in dispute, because of money is going to italy, we wa nt to of money is going to italy, we want to see how they are going to be spending it. Is this a fair system . For sure the commission will look at how this money will be spent, and the commission, we are not financially determined, it is raising, lending money to the markets and transferring it to government. We will do this according to our priorities, the transition, the digitisation, ouraccommodation to Different Countries from the netherlands to italy, but i dont think we will have winners and losers. This is not the crisis of ten years ago, this is a crisis affecting everybody and putting at risk our Single Market, and countries like the netherlands, austria, the countries you are mentioning, they are big winners from the Single Market, so it is within their interest, not only for solidarity but for economic interest to keep the Single Market strong. But how do these countries spend the money . Spain is usually seeing about 140 billion euros and spanish governments have said that this is not a crisis of money, its a crisis of ideas its for these countries to actually spend the money on proper programmes that assist economic recovery. There is a real worry about this. We here in brussels, we have established with the agreement of Member States a very clear framework for this unprecedented spending. It is clear that we have two big priorities, the green transition, 37 of investment should be linked to the green transition, and the digitisation of our economy. At the same time we have recommendations for each member state, so i think the guidance is very clear, it is not easy to spend such a huge amount of money in such a limited time because we are dealing with a few years with the spending, so i think either we take this opportunity in a few years or we will not be able to make the changes you are mentioning, we dont want to go back to normal but we want to use this moment for greener, more resilient, more competitive economies are. You made the point. Does very quickly as the former Prime Minister of italy, will you be tough on italy because roberto says that there is an enormous risk italy will be unable to spend this money or we will spend this money or we will spend it on useless things and in that case we are heading for debt crisis in a few years. Will you be tough on italy . We will be tough, foreshore on every single country, tough means that the ownership of the proposal is of national countries, but we are guaranteeing that the framework and the common targets are in these programmes, we will do this for every single country and of course for italy, which is the country receiving the larger amount of money, not in relative terms, but in general terms. Just very quickly on this, the president of germanys central bankers warning that this should remain a clearly defined crisis measure and should not open the door to permanent European Union debt stopper you have to make sure you are not really just signing huge amounts of debt to the eu for a very long time, correct . Well, you were mentioning before the European Central bank saying that we need a permanent initiative, and now we are rightly mentioning the german governor saying there should be a one off measure. I think that we have the duty to guarantee success to these extraordinary operation if success will be there, then we can discuss the future of this success does not meana future of this success does not mean a level of debt without any control, and resuspended our stability packed to our physical rules until the end of next year, this doesnt mean that we are not considering the importance to keep deficits and debt in the right path. Could it lead to greater fiscal union within the European Union because you need a kind of assertive response on fiscal policy . Yes, this was a stronger recommendation coming frequently from the ecb, we cant have only a common monetary policy, we need a fiscal common policy. This is perhaps a step in this direction, but i repeat, we should concentrate on this initiative, and not on the consequences that it could have in the european project and building. This is a discussion for after the crisis, not for now. I have to ask you briefly on brexit of course, talks were taken this week between britain and the European Union and there is an eu leader summit, hoping to have progress, david frost, the uks chief brexit negotiator said a deal is very much possible but equally very farfrom certain. How confident are you of a deal . Well i know that talks are ongoing this week, and so it is difficult for me to comment these talks. What is sure is that the eu has a lwa ys what is sure is that the eu has always been committed to trying to find a deal we did it in good faith, but at the same time its clear what we already agreed should be implemented, so the Withdrawal Agreement is not an option, the protocol for ireland and Northern Ireland should be implemented, as the president said a few days ago,. Very quickly, when you said back in february about the coronavirus as it was hitting your own country, no need to panic. That kind of attitude has not left the eu in a very strong position to recover as quickly as possible, has commissioner . I think we need to reassure our citizens that we are doing all things possible, not only to find a vaccine, but also to manage this crisis. Commissioner, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. Hello there. A window of fine weather awaits many today not all, but for most, there will be some good lengthy spells of sunshine and light winds, and it will feel pleasa ntly warm for late september. The reason, well, weve got a ridge of High Pressure moving in behind the cold weather front, which hasnt brought much rain but it certainly brought cloudier skies southwards through the night and some drizzly rain, which will stick across Eastern England for a time before finally clearing. The ridge of High Pressure towards the north ensuring a pretty cold start to the day again, with temperatures close enough to freezing to give us some grass frost. The other thing we need to be aware of in northern and Western Areas is some patchy fog of course, it lingers through the rush hour this time of year. Now, we have got the cloud, the low cloud, the drizzly rain with our weather front as well in the south, really rather great start for parts of Eastern England. As you can see, with time through the day, its starting to pull away, the skies will brighten. Also, just the outside chance of a few showers in north west scotland, possibly Northern Ireland. Its more likely the cloud will thicken towards tea time here. With light winds, despite temperatures a little lower than they were on monday, the north will still feel very pleasant, and approaching 18 19 in southern areas, rather where they should be for the time of year. But that ridge of High Pressure is a brief ridge of High Pressure, because by the night, as you can see, and tomorrow, we have got more rain rushing in. And its a slow moving band of heavy rain. Some parts of southern and western scotland could see 40 60mm before this rain finally clears away. You can see, it continues to fall throughout tuesday night and wednesday. Strong, potentially Gale Force Winds with it. Ahead of it, some drier weather, and this mild air at least, but it will be a fairly wet affair wednesday for most parts of the uk. Then a brief respite again, potentially on thursday, little ridge of High Pressure, still some showers around. Now comes the uncertainty. Where will this deepening area of low pressure come to lie . Potentially southern areas, bringing us increasingly windy and wet weather and lasting into the weekend as well. It certainly looks a lot more unsettled by that stage. So, yes, definitely feeling autumnal, and feeling quite chilly as well after the fact that weve had some sunshine and its felt quite warm. Look at the temperatures really dipping down by the end of the week. As i say, perhaps a little respite on thursday, but some very unsettled weather as you can see in the outlook. As ever, theres more on our website. This is bbc news. The latest headlines an unwelcome milestone. The number of people around the world who have died with coronavirus as the disease first emerged hasjust officially passed 1 million. The americas account for more than half the total. Donald trump joe biden prepare than half the total. Donald Trumpjoe Biden prepare to go head to head for the first televised debate of the president ial campaign. Wildfires for thousands of californians from their home as a new blaze named the glass buyout takes hold. Living Emergency Care by air the futuristic jetpack that could drastically change the Response Time of patients in hard to reach areas