Thats it for now. Now on bbc news, its hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi. The economic fallout of covid 19 has been tough, and now with new waves of the virus, restrictions on Economic Activity are being reimposed in many countries. The European Union is the worlds second wealthiest and largest economy after the United States and accounts for a large portion of the global economy. It has suffered badly from coronavirus. How confident is it of making a recovery . Well, my guest is the european commissioner for the economy, Paolo Gentiloni who until 2018 was Prime Minister of italy. Commissioner Paolo Gentiloni, welcome to hardtalk. There are 3 million covid 19 cases in the European Union and there have been around a quarter of a million deaths. How worried are you that these new waves could cost more lives and livelihoods . Well, indeed there is an extremely high level of uncertainty. I think we will never forget this 2020 the human costs and the economic consequences. As far as the economic consequences are concerned , we are in a contradictory situation, because the recovery is under way since a couple of months after a terrible Second Quarter, but the speed of the recovery is losing momentum exactly because of the uncertainty of these new contagions. This could take a very long time. And so how the situation could evolve. Yup. Will we have after the new contagions also new hospitalizations . These are the question marks for politicians, entrepreneurs and for our families. As you just said, the recovery has been rather faltering. Jeffrey okamoto, deputy md of the imf says Coronavirus Crisis is lasting longer than originally thought and that it would take some countries years to return to growth. Do you agree that it could take years for some eu countries to see proper recovery . Well, we will have more accurate forecasts at the beginning of november, but what is sure now is that after the Second Quarter of very, very difficult and after the speed of recovery we had injuly and august, things are now slowing down. And then it is very clear that we have a very different situation. Among european countries, some more affected less than 18 of gdp, or less affected, 4 , 4 , and among economic sectors, we have some economic sectors, i mean travel, tourism, entertainment that will take a long time to recover. 0k, will it take years . All in all, i think it will not be able, probably, at the end of 2021, to be again at the level of gdp we had at the end of 2019. So your forecasting that the European Union economy is shrinking by about 8 on average, correct, 8. 3 . But my question is, could it take years for a proper recovery in some countries . Thats the point. I know that youve just outlined that this is doing this and this is doing that, but could it take years . Well, what we know is that we will have in 2021 a rebound that, for the moment, the different forecasts around 5 6 , so at the end of 2021, we will not be again at the level of growth that we had before the pandemic. European Union Leaders have got to be really bold, have . To be really bold, havent you . And really reimagine the economic landscape in the European Union. The secretary general of the United Nations told me on hardtalk last month that the coronavirus pandemic present an opportunity to build back better, more resilient, more green and more inclusive. Do you agree with him that you need really Bold Thinking . Absolutely. I dont think that our goal should be to go back to normal, and indeed, the effort that the European Union is doing with this unprecedented economic funding is exactly to try to build a greener, more resilient, more competitive and more inclusive society. And i think that this is a common goal, and i have to say that what we were able to decide at such a short time after the crisis for the experience of the European Union is really unprecedented. Are you doing enough though, commissioner, because lets just take jobs. Thats a huge, huge worry for everybody. A co Study Suggests that 60 million jobs are at risk. Weve got unemployment across the eu roughly 7 , but for young people, its as high as 17 . So, do you think collectively you are doing enough to get people employed . I think the first reaction was, of course, a reaction to support companies and jobs to avoid losing companies and jobs. And these efforts were more or less successful in the European Union because of the large amount of schemes that we have two support jobs in companies. Completely different from other parts of the world where you have a saddening increase of millions and millions of unemployed, but we know that this relatively low increase of unemployment rates is hiding a different reality. The different reality is that we are in many cases losing some more precarious jobs, especially for younger people, and we have a massive drop in how it works. Drop in hours worked. So, yes, the unemployment is not skyrocketing, thanks to this scheme of supports, but at the same time, behind this picture, we have more precariousjobs jobs that we are losing and we have a massive drop in hours worked. So, the autumn will be absolutely decisive to keep jobs and have selective measures to keep the economy going. But how . Can ijust say, john hurley from the research arm of the eu says, europe has been successful at dampening the initial effects of the crisis, as you have just outlined, commissioner. But in all likelihood, he says, unemployment is going to come home to roost. There is going to be a shake out and its going to be fairly ugly. Hes right, isnt he . There is going to be mass unemployment because at the moment, we are propping up these jobs, they are kind of zombie jobs, as the 0acd describe them. Kind of zombie jobs, as the 0ecd describe them. Well, of course im concerned about Zombie Companies and zombie jobs. But im concerned mostly on companies and jobs. So i think that it was the correct choice to act immediately and to give a general support. Now, we have to make this support more selective in the next month and we need also a soft landing from a general support to companies and jobs to a more selective one. I think if we are able to do this, we will avoid a massive unemployment crisis. And this is something that all european nations are working on. So, how will you decide . Lets take the Aviation Industry for instance, thats taken a real knock. For example, an airline in germany had 22,000 jobs lost. Are you saying that, perhaps, europe turns its back, for instance, on the Aviation Industry and says, look, lets lets look elsewhere, the Digital Economy or whatever. To really have proper qualityjobs . Well, of course, we will have a transformation. I dont think that the level of crisis that we are now seeing in some sectors, you were mentioning aviation, but it is also tourism in general, sports, entertainment, i dont think that this crisis will last. But, of course, in these sectors , recovery will be much slower. So, these sectors need to be strongly supported for a longer time than others. At the same time, i think we decided something at the european level on our state aid rules that made possible for states to support these sectors in crisis with public money which was, as you know, something that our competition rule didnt allow until six months ago. So, we enabled countries to support these sectors. Sure. We will have transformation, we will have green jobs, we will have jobs connected to digitisation and we will lose somejobs. But thats going to. For sure. And so. Sorry to interrupt you here. But that is going to take time, isnt it, commissioner gentiloni . We have seen recently, for instance, restaurant tours we have seen recently, for instance, restaura ntuers in marseilles in france protesting against the measures which have meant their restaurants have been closed down, affecting their livelihoods. In may, we saw protests, protesters burning tires in barcelona, in spain, because a car plant was being closed there. How worried are you about social unrest as the reality sinks in . Of course, im worried. We saw some demonstrations that you are mentioning in marseilles and barcelona. We saw them also in germany. Of course, this is a very delicate balance to strike between personal freedom safety, and economy. At the end of the day, i think that the European Response to this crisis has been able in these recent months to strike a good balance. We have transparency, we had safety, despite the deep monetary and crisis, and we had also a level humanitarian crisis, and we had also a level of cohesion in our countries. But you are right, the risk in the months to come is that uncertainty could create social unrest. We put on the table several tools also to strengthen the support to job assurance schemes, upskilling of workers also at the european level, and this is what we have to do in these times to help workers to upskill and be able to find a newjob or to be stronger in keeping theirjobs. All right, and the anger is also animated in parts by those who resent the restrictions on theirfreedoms. We have seen in london, for instance, protesters saying and clashing with police because they are saying, you know, we dont want these restrictions, we dont want all the spacing and the masks and the rest of it. How can european leaders carry their citizens with them and there is a real risk of anger spilling over on the streets, isnt there . There is this risk, but i am definitely confident on the strength of democracy, liberty, our political system based on transparency and the rule of law. I dont think that this is a time for managing this crisis in an authoritarian way. We know that our systems means also a lot of public discussions may be of differences among different institutions and regional institutions in our countries, and differences among european member states. But at the end of the day, i think the european citizen knows that we have transparency in how we manage the safety crisis and how we are re strengthening our economy. All right. And this is, i think, of winning card a winning card for the near future. Ok. You have mentioned how the European Union has responded to the coronavirus pandemic, you have set up this recovery fund, 750 billion euros. The European Central bank which is of course the central bank of the euro zone of the European Union is asking for this fund to be made permanent. Is that something you could consider, because you know, you are going to need to stay with us for quite a while. Could it be permanent . Well, we didnt decide at the moment to have permanent funding. We decided something unprecedented someone called it a hamiltonian moments. A rubiconian and moments. A rubiconian moment. But apart from labels, i think we did indeed take important decision, an unprecedented one, and the experience of the european project shows that when you take an unprecedented decision, if the decision produces good results, then you will repeat it. But until now, we didnt decide a permanent initiative. Is it a good result, though . Because, i mean, there are net gainers and then there are those who also stand to lose, like austria, denmark and holland. Is it fair that some countries are putting money into this fund, and they dont have as much say about how the recipient countries can spend it . Because this has been a big area of dispute with the dutch saying, look, if money is going to italy or whatever, we want to see how they are going to be spending it. Is this a fair system . For sure, the commission will look at the way this money will be spent. We the commission, we are not financial interment aries we the commission, we are not financial intermerdies raising or lending money in the markets and then transferring it to governments. We will do this according to our priorities, the green transition, the digitisation, our recommendation to Different Countries from the netherlands to italy. But i dont think we will have winners and losers. This is not the crisis of ten years ago, this is a crisis affecting everybody and putting at risk our single markets. In countries like the netherlands, austria, the countries that you mentioned are big winners of this single market. So its in their interest, not only for solidarity, but for economic interest to keep the single markets strong. But how do these countries spend the money . I mean, spain is due to receive about 140 billion euros and the Spanish Government sources have said, told reuters, that this is not a crisis of money, its a crisis of ideas. Its difficult for these countries to actually spend the money on proper programmes that assist economic recovery. There is real worry about this. Well, we here in brussels, we established with the agreement of member states, a very clear framework for this unprecedented spending. So, it is clear that we have two big priorities, the green transition, 37 of investment should be linked to the green transition, and the digitisation of our economy. At the same time, we have recommendation for each member states. So, i think the guidance is very clear. It is not easy to spend such a huge amount of money in such a limited time because we are dealing with few years for this spending. Just a quick response. But i think we either take this opportunity in a few years or we will not be able to make the changes you were mentioning. You dont want to go back to normal, we want to use this moment for greener, more resilient. Youve made that point. More competitive. Yeah, sure, you made that point. Just very quickly on this, as a former Prime Minister of italy, will you be tough on italy . Because roberto from Milan University says, theres an enormous risk italy will be unable to spend this money or we will spend it on useless things, and in that case, we are heading for debt crisis in a few years. Will you be tough on italy . We will be tough. All right, 0k. On every single country. Tough means that the ownership of the proposal is of national countries, but we are guaranteeing that the framework and the common targets are in these programme. Ok. We will do this for every single country, and of course, for italy, which is the country receiving the larger amount of money, not in relative terms, but in general terms. All right, just very quickly on this, the president of germanys central bank is warning that this should remain a clearly defined crisis measure and should not open the door to permanent European Union debts. Youve got to make sure you are not reallyjust signing huge amounts of debt to the eu for a very long time. Correct . Well, you know, you were mentioning before that europeans were saying we need a permanent initiative, and now we are rightly mentioning the german governor saying that this should be a one off measure. I think that we have the duty to guarantee success to this extraordinary operation. If success will be there, then we can discuss of there, then we can discuss of the future of this initiative. All right to. For sure, success doesnt mean a level of debt without any control. We suspended our stimulus packs with our fiscal rules until the end of next year. This doesnt mean that we are not considering the importance to keep deficits and debt in the right path. And could it lead to great greater fiscal union within the European Union, because you need a kind of conservative concerted energy, just very quickly on that. Yes, this was a strong recommendation coming frequently from the ecb. We have only a common monetary policy, we need a fiscal common policy. This is perhaps a step in this direction, but i repeat, we should concentrate on this initiative and not on the consequences that it could have in the european project and building. This is a discussion for after the crisis, not for now. Got to ask you briefly on brexit of course. Talks have taken place this week between britain and the European Union, and there is an eu leader summit in mid 0ctober hoping to have progress. David frost the uk s brexit chief negotiator says a deal is very much possible but equally very far from how confident are you of a deal, commissioner . Well, i know that talks are ongoing this week, and so its difficult for me to comment these talks. What is sure is that the eu has always been committed to trying to find a deal we did it in good faith. At the same time, its clear that what we already agreed should be implemented. So that the Withdrawal Agreement is not an option, the protocol for ireland and Northern Ireland should be implemented, as president of the alliance that a few days ago. And just very quickly, when you said back in february about the coronavirus, advisers in your own country, italy, no need to panic. That kind of attitude hasnt really left the eu ina attitude hasnt really left the eu in a very strong position to recover as quickly as possible, has it, commissioner . Well, i think that we need to reassure our citizens that we are doing all our things possible, not only to find a vaccine, but also to manage this crisis. Commissioner paolo, gentiloni, thank you very much indeed for coming on her talk. Thank you. Coming on hardtalk. Hello there. A window of fine weather awaits many today not all, but for most, there will be some good lengthy spells of sunshine and light winds, and it will feel pleasa ntly warm for late september. The reason, well, weve got a ridge of High Pressure moving in behind the cold weather front, which hasnt brought much rain but it certainly brought cloudier skies southwards through the night and some drizzly rain, which will stick across Eastern England for a time before finally clearing. The ridge of High Pressure towards the north ensuring a pretty cold start to the day again, with temperatures close enough to freezing to give us some grass frost. The other thing we need to be aware of in northern and Western Areas is some patchy fog of course, it lingers through the rush hour this time of year. Now, we have got the cloud, the low cloud, the drizzly rain with our weather front as well in the south, really rather great start for parts of Eastern England. As you can see, with time through the day, its starting to pull away, the skies will brighten. Also, just the outside chance of a few showers in northwest scotland, possibly Northern Ireland. Its more likely the cloud will thicken towards tea time here. With light winds, despite temperatures a little lower than they were on monday, the north will still feel very pleasant, and approaching 18 19 in southern areas, rather where they should be for the time of year. But that ridge of High Pressure is a brief ridge of High Pressure, because by the night, as you can see, and tomorrow, we have got more rain rushing in. And its a slow moving band of heavy rain. Some parts of southern and western scotland could see 40 60 mm before this rain finally clears away. You can see, it continues to fall throughout tuesday night and wednesday. Strong, potentially Gale Force Winds with it. Ahead of it, some drier weather, and this mild air at least, but it will be a fairly wet affair wednesday for most parts of the uk. Then a brief respite again, potentially on thursday, little ridge of High Pressure, still some showers around. Now comes the uncertainty. Where will this deepening area of low pressure come to lie . Potentially southern areas, bringing us increasingly windy and wet weather and lasting into the weekend as well. It certainly looks a lot more unsettled by that stage. So, yes, definitely feeling autumnal, and feeling quite chilly as well after the fact that weve had some sunshine and its felt quite warm. Look at the temperatures really dipping down by the end of the week. As i say, perhaps a little respite on thursday, but some very unsettled weather as you can see in the outlook. As ever, theres more on our website. This is bbc news. The latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. I mike embley. The World Health Organization and the us announce plans to roll out a rapid new covid test that could transform the Global Response to the pandemic. One, two, three, four, five. Into the test, twisted three times. The adhesive is pulled off and you wait 15 minutes and that is the test. 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