To a church and appearing in a photo op near the white house was a mistake. Mark milley, the chairman of thejoint chiefs of staff, said the event created a perception of the military being involved in domestic politics. Us stock markets have fallen sharply, as investors became less optimistic about the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the american economy. The dowjones index closed down by almost 7 , losses in other indices were almost as great. Stocks suffered their worst day since march. The British Government says its coronavirus test and trace system is working well in its first week since being introduced. However, new figures show thousands who tested positive couldnt be contacted. Thats it for me. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. A year ago, massive pro democracy demonstrations in hong kong seriously rattled the Chinese Government. A little later in the summer of 2019, my guest today, simon cheng, who was an employee of the uk consulate in hong kong, was arrested by the chinese authorities. He said he was then interrogated and tortured. Now, mr cheng is here, in london, seeking political asylum. The Chinese Government is about to impose new, National Security laws in hong kong. So, will anything stop the Chinese Government imposing its will and its system in hong kong . Simon cheng, welcome to hardtalk. Nice to meet you, stephen. You have been through a truly extraordinary year. One year ago, you were living a normal life in hong kong. Today, we sit together in london, your status is uncertain. What is your Current Situation here in the uk . Well, i have now come to london using the working holiday visa, that is the tier 5 youth mobility scheme, that is a de facto holiday visa and now im at applying for political asylum from the home office and i am waiting for the result and will have a result by latejune. You, in essence, you are a political exile, arent you . Yeah, yeah, you can say that. I just wonder, now that you look back on everything thats happened,
do you feel that the United Kingdom government, which, of course, was your employer, youre working for the consulate in hong kong, do you feel that they failed in a duty of care to you . Well, i would say that at least apply political asylum. I would like to wait and see whether they will grant me the political asylum. If they do, then i think that is good enought for me, at least i can have a sanctuary for me to live here and stay here. A sanctuary . Yes. That is what you need, is it . Yes. Because you feel that events a year ago, just under a year ago, when he travelled on a Business Mission for the uk government, to shenzhen, in china, what they ended up with you facing a very real and continued threat, in your view, from the Chinese Government . Yes, exactly, i was on a business trip for my department within the british consulate in hong kong and when i went back to shenzhen and finished
the trip and went back to the hong kong west kowloon station, the High Speed Railway station, i was stalked and delivered back to shenzhen, where i experienced torture and political interrogation by the secret police, the state security police. Why do you think the chinese authorities detained you, and we will discuss treatment of you in a second, but why did they detain you . Firstly, i think it was because i wanted to collect information that i was on the frontline of the the protests in the midst of the anti extradition bill protests in hong kong and also i worked for the british consulate and i had been instructed to collect information about the protests. That is the way they wanted to get the information and also they are wanting to blame me and also to prove, so called proof, that that the uk instigated the protest. I am already a little puzzled
and im thinking that if i was saying the position of a chinese official looking at you, i would be somewhat concerned about your role because your official title is involved in trade and Business Missions from the uk consulate in hong kong but in fact you havejust told me that you were instructed by your diplomatic masters to observe and report upon the democracy demonstrations which of course a very large last summer in hong kong. Were you some sort of an undercover spy . Not exactly undercover spy. I mean, i was on frontline. I mean, when i was. But you were on the front line to report back to your masters . I was not on the frontline because of that, i personally support the pro democracy movement, and i onlyjoined the legal rally but, meanwhile, i was instructed by the consulate that i needed to collect information amongst those news channels. Just to be clear because of
the notion that you are someway spying, you did not declare who you were to either your pro democracy colleagues on the front line or to any police or authorities that may have tried to intervene. You were there, ostensibly, as a private hong kong citizen but in fact you were there working for the British Government. Isnt that a slightly odd conflict of interest . Indeed, that is slightly odd but. But you are a spy, mr cheng . I mean, i have a few identities, one i work for the consulate that is nothing relevant to politics but meanwhile i am a hong kong citizen. That is a clear guidelines that the consulate saying that you as a hong kong citizen, you have your own right, you are free to join the legal rallies in hong kong. When the british first asked you to report back to give them information on what you are learning about the pro democracy
demonstrations, did you, at any point, pause for thought and think, hmmm, this could get me into trouble . At that time, no. At that time i do believe there was a great chance for me to let the British Government to get the information and keep tag as to why the protests will go on the street. That is why ijoined because i think that was meaningful for me. Who is your first loyalty to, the British Government or hong kong, which is ultimately sovereign territory of china. Where was your loyalty . My loyalty would be the hong kong people first because i am a hong kong citizen and of course i work for the uk government because i believe in democratic systems and i do believe that it is not to safeguarding the interests of the uk but also because it can reinforce the people voice for democracy. So, so to fast forward a little bit, you now tell me that the chinese
detained you in shenzhen because they had either filmed you, had some record of you being involved in the pro democracy protest. The chinese of course are quite clear that you are picked up because you had illegally solicited for sex in shenzhen. At the very least, you violated chinas Security Administration punishment law. Is that true . Not true. You said afterwards that you had visited a massage parlour. There is a massage parlour but nothing else. What they claim i clearly denied that arbitraty accusation, especially the accusations through a illegal processes, including torture and coercion. Right, because there are videos, of course, a video of your confession, notjust to soliciting prostitution but betrayal of the motherland. Why did you record those videos . Well, i think that is for public relations. I mean, when i was asked out for doing the enforced confession tapes, i was relieved because i guessed at that time that my situation had been exposed to the news and so had to do something to try to persuade the people that i, i so called solicited prostitution is, which is not true. If you can see that footage, that is a very decent massage parlour with very decent business certification on the wall and if you carefully watch the footage at the end, there are a bunch of family members, including children to come, and if that country is very careful about the rule of law, they dont have enough evidence to prove anything. You have already, in this interview, you have used the word torture and in previous descriptions of what happened to you, you have used words like, i was shackled, blindfolded, hooded. You say your hands were cuffed and you were hung in a difficult
and uncomfortable position and then forced to sit in an uncomfortable position. Is there anyway you can prove any of this because the chinese have denied absolutely that they used any form of physical abuse orforce on you. I would say that is absolutely lies and nonsense. Although i cannot prove that i have been tortured, but, as i am the first hand experience, i experienced the torture. I clearly saw that Detention Centre, the doctors within the Detention Centre, in the first week, and in the first week, they chopped my bruises, and my hurt on the paper, the medical record, and if the Chinese Authority did slightly, did a very small investigation, they would know, they would know that within the Detention Centre the medical records,
if they checked the first week, they would see i already got hurt. You have any marks on your body now . Just a bit but they are recovering because one of the prerequisites i had to be let out was because i had to be fully recovered. In the second week, the secret Police Brought items to help me. To get rid of the bruises and the marks . Yes, exactly. You also said that while you are in detention and what you claim suffering this physical abuse, you saw a bunch of other hong kong people getting interrogated. You were aware there were other hong kong people involved in the pro democracy demonstrations who presumably, like you, had been taken to shenzhen to be interrogated. Any proof of that . Because that is an extremely inflammatory claim, at least viewed from china. Stephen, if you ask me to prove that at that situation, at that situation, i was detained, i cannot. Did you gather any names or names you could follow up afterwards to see what happened . Im not allowed to have contact with them because i am being put into solitary confinement but in the past and i saw that bunch of people, from the bottom of my heart, i guessed they were hong kong protesters but from two different sources, the interrogators, and interrogators told me that had been arrested because of the protests in hong kong. As you say, you eventually, after more than two weeks in detention, you are allowed to leave china and i believe you went to taiwan for a couple of months and then you came to the United Kingdom, where you are now pursuing your claim for asylum which you say will be settled in just a couple of weeks. Have you any contact at all with your family at all in hong kong . No. You know, early this year, i was still maintaining contact with my family members in hong kong
but, afterwards, that was the first time, i received the media in cantonese, in chinese, and after that i cut ties with my family. You mean youve cut ties with a permanent basis with them . At least for the security reason, yes, because several family members in Mainland China are afraid of being harrassed because i chose to speak out, especially in cantonese, and it effect the chinese audience. Do you feel that since this happened to you, the British Government has responded with sufficient vigor to the seriousness of your case . You after all were an employee of the uk consulate in hong kong when you were detained and according to yourself when you were tortured by the chinese authorities. This happened less than one year ago. Are you satisfied with the way the British Government responded to your case . Well, at least the foreign secretary Dominic Raabe called xiaoming, the Chinese Ambassador in the uk, and at least the official statement made by the foreign secretary recognise that my treatment amounts to torture, to me, that is quite enough already because i dont expect too much from the uk government because usually when i worked for the uk government and what i saw, usually a statement to hong kong, very, very moderate. Very moderate . Do you think the uk government, in your experience, as both an employee and as you say as a private citizen who supports the pro democracy movement, you feel over a long period that the British Government has been, to use your, euphemistic term, very moderate in its dealings with china . Yeah, definitely. I would say for example because of the british diplomats and those People Living in the uk,
they are not on the front line to deal with the authoritarianism so that they could naturally moderate, and that was one of the reasons i wanted to inform them, actually, they need to stand with the hong kong people. Lets bring it up to the present day because things have become even more sensitive in recent times since you left hong kong, with the Chinese Government, thanks to the latest decision from the National Peoples congress, about to impose a raft of National Security laws that apply inside china on the mainland, apply them to hong kong as well. That will criminalise people who are said to be advocating separatism, subversion, terrorism, acts of foreign interference, hong kong citizens who are part of the movement believe that National Security law will be used to repress all of their freedom of speech. What is your view of what
the Chinese Government is doing now . Its very hard to imagine less than a year what i entreat would be applied to all the hong kong people now in hong kong. Before, this National Security law that i have been threatened, if i spoke out when i got back to hong kong, i would be secretly abducted from hong kong to Mainland China. That happened long before this law. Afterwards, the main point is that they legalise their behaviour. It means that they are not secretly doing it, they willjust openly do it, and they have legal grounds to do it. We are in a dark room because we dont know exactly what they will execute, and what is the distinction between Mainland China and hong kong, that is what i am so worried about. You are worried that the Chinese Government has a very clear message. The director of the hong kong
affairs office in beijing says its quite clear the security laws that have now been applied to hong kong will give the majority there much more freedom and protection, because they will no longer fear violence, they will be able to speak the truth on the street without being beaten up, and they will no longer have to worry about the young people of the territory being brainwashed by people like you. No, totally nonsense. Because of course you can check, you can simply check all the statements on the courts on Mainland China. Does all the people, theyjust leave a critical comment on chinese leadership and chain authority, then, they will be criminalised as making trouble, or provoking quarrels. Sure, but hong kong does have its own government, and the chief of the Hong Kong Government, she says she supports the new National Security law,
because she says it will bring an end to chaos. Chaos that has badly affected the hong kong economy, so the Hong Kong Government, under the one country two systems edict, the Hong Kong Government itself is supporting the National Security law. It means they have ruined the two systems already. That introduce the secret police to come to hong kong, they will charge you, titania, torture you, deliver you back to Mainland China because what is said, and that is the thing we are worried about, and the chaos they claim is caused by those powerful fears, by the authorities, not by the people. Do you really believe that the system of one country two systems and all the basic law that is supposed to guarantee hong kongs special status under chinese sovereignty, you believe all that is now dead, do you . All dead, already. A few years ago, people will say
that it was just pretend, it was still a lie when the chinese Authorities Say that the declaration of independence is a historical document, that attitude of the chinese is very clear. Lets bring it back to the british. You have seen in the last month or so the British Government make a clear commitment that because of their concerns about the application of this new National Security law, they are now promising to meet their obligations to British National overseas passport holders, the number more than 300,000 in hong kong, thanks to the handover agreement of 97, and potentially, up to two and a half or 3 million more hong kong citizens could potentially get access to those so called passports, and it seems would be allowed to come to the uk for at least one year and maybe even
apply for citizenship. What you make of what you have heard from borisjohnson on that issue . I would say that is a very encouraging signal, at least we finally see that as the uk government, the attitudes to china have been made, u turn, and is encouraging to most people. You are a hong kong citizen, you said to me i always think in the end is a loyal resident of hong kong. Do you really want to see hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of the brightest and the best in hong kong making it exodus, a rush for the exit door and leaving the territory . I would say why not . At least we need to protect the people of hong kong, that is the first duty. Me to safeguard them because if they are still staying in hong kong, and they have sacrificed their lives, it is worthless to me. We need to safeguard them. I would say that is notjust to rescue the hong kong people, we need to rescue all of democracy, and we need to rescue british citizens as well. You think many hong kong citizens will choose to leave . At least we need to give lifeboats for them, and if they want to help themselves, they have a way to leave. It is about more than just the capacity for those who have the passports to leave, it is about whether the International Community will try to put real pressure on china in terms of economic sanctions, joshua wong, one of the prominent, young pro democracy activist in hong kong has called on the uk government to impose hotel sanctions in order to push for the withdrawal of the National Security bill by the chinese. Wholesale sanctions. He says we should at the very least expel the telecoms giant huawei from involvement in the uk 56 network. Are you now as an activist
here in the uk, who actually wants asylum in the uk, are you pushing for the uk government to be much tougher . Yes, we are working on it, and that is good news for us. At least what Boris Johnson said, it will sort it out by 2023, and i do believe that is the uk government and also the west, they can stand up to china. Interesting, because one of the most important players is donald trump in the united states. His messages are very mixed. 0n the one hand he has blamed china for covid i9 pandemic, he talks tough on china, but he has not, he very notably has not torn up the phase one trade deal with china. Do you believe donald trump is serious about putting pressure on beijing . We will wait and see, but at least what we see compared with other western countries, the us, unless they show the strongest point to stand
against china, and what we see, the statement made by the secretary of state, they are brave enough, they would retreat the special status to hong kong, so i do believe they have a determination to save hong kong. I want to and with a personal thought. And with a personal thought. I think im right in saying, a young man who is still under 30, is that right . Yes. You have made a massive life decision. Given your experience last year, you have come to the uk, you are seeking political asylum, you have chosen to speak out, you are now part of the worldwide pro democracy hong kong movement. Your life has changed for ever, you will always, at least in the foreseeable future, be regarded as an enemy by china. Do you believe that in some ways, you will always face
threat in your life . Definitely. That is the threat and the smear and campaign against me will be for the rest of my life. People ask me if i have solicited prostitution, if i am a traitor, and i am well prepared for it because i do not regret, i believe we need to fight for democracy, not only in hong kong, but in china. No regrets at all . Because you have handled things very differently stop you could have refused the British Government, refused to report for the government, the British Government, on the pro democracy demonstrations, and i am just wondering, sitting here with you whether you dont have some regrets about your decisions . No, not at all. I am very determined, i do believe at that time, i collected information for the better good, for the world, and we can learn and hear about the voice of the true hong kong people, the people that
have no power, nothing they can do any more but the only way they can do, is go on the street, fight for democracy. Simon cheng, thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. Thank you so much. Hello. A lot going on with our weather the next few days, and its all being driven by an area of low pressure this beautiful swirl of cloud here on the satellite picture. And rather than moving through quickly, this area of low pressure will just sit around and spin areas of rain up in ourdirection. Brisk winds for a time, as well. And with the flow of air around this area of low pressure, we will tap into something rather warm and potentially quite humid. So, to sum up the next few days, there will be some heavy, thundery downpours with some sunny spells in between, and that warm and humid feel across most parts of the uk. Now over recent hours, weve had a lot of rain across northeast england. That rain continues here, pushing into northwest england, northern ireland, eventually into southern and eastern scotland, and across southern england, another pulse of very heavy rain working into the afternoon. Some flashes of lightning and rumbles of thunder are likely as rain starts to get into the southeast of wales and south midlands, the odd heavy shower following on behind. The temperatures a little bit higher than they have been, 2i celsius there in london. Sunshine and showers to the north of midlands into wales, a lot of cloud with some outbreaks in rain for Northern England and northern ireland, with some of that rain eventually pushing to the southeast of scotland. But towards the northwest of scotland, well here have the best of the dry and sunny weather, although for some coast in the northeast, its likely to stay more murky, and itll be quite a breezy day, as well. Now as we move through friday night into saturday, you can see further pulses of wet weather pushing across the map with some clear spells, as well. Itll be a very mild night, weve got quite a few mild nights to come, actually, with temperatures starting saturday in the double digits for most. Now potentially another area of rain pushing across Northern England into northern ireland, parts of southern scotland. To the south of that sunshine, really heavy showers breaking out they will be quite well scattered, not everyone will get a shower. If you do, it could bring some thunder, lightning, large hail and certainly a lot of rain in a short space of time. But look at the temperatures, 25 celsius in norwich, 20 celsius in glasgow, a bit cooler for some of these northern and eastern coasts where we keep a lot of cloud, some mist and fog. It could be quite grey and murky again for North Eastern coast on sunday. For most its another day of sunny spells and torrential, thundery downpours. And once again, it will feel warm, with temperatures of 17 celsius in aberdeen,
2a celsius in london. This is bbc news. Im Lewis Vaughan jones with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Americas top general apologises for appearing alongside President Trump at the height of the anti racism protests. As many of you saw, the results of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week, it sparked a National Debate about the role of the military in civil society. I should not have been there. Us stock markets suffer their deepest one day falls since equity markets crashed in march. The uk abandons plans to introduce full border checks with the European Union in january. British rapper stormzy pledges millions of dollars to tackle prejudice. We talk to those whove suffered racism