Affected by an economic crisis. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. The global coronavirus pandemic has prompted governments across the world to take emergency measures, restricting liberties to safeguard public health, and no european nation has gone further than hungary. My guest today is the chief international spokesman. Has covid 19 ushered in europes first de facto dictatorship . Zoltan kovacs, in budapest, welcome to hardtalk. Would you explain to me, the reasoning behind the extraordinary powers that your government has taken in the wake of the Coronavirus Crisis . I believe the reasons are as simple as in any country around the globe. We face an unknown enemy in the way of the virus. We have seen viruses coming and going but this one seems to be special and so much unknown that most governments around the globe have asked for some extraordinary measures to be able to handle that situation and address the challenges according to day by day or week by week. Nobody knows when the pandemic is going to end and that is why we have asked for parliament, extraordinary measures that will entitle the government to, and this is for only fighting the virus, we can be swift and decisive and have a decision made as soon as required. Many governments have taken emergency measures. Yours are different in several key instances. Let us begin with perhaps the most important of all. Yours are not time limited. They are absolutely indefinite and that has caused a huge amount of consternation around europe and particularly in brussels. Why indefinite . Very fortunately, it is definite. Indefinite wouldnt be good. By legal terms, the very fact that we have received the ability to use extraordinary measures from parliament itself is a limitation and the very natural limitation of the timing and the termination of the time is the end of the pandemic. Let me stop you right there, who determines the end of the pandemic and seek . The pandemic emergency . As determined by the who, we believe that the International Organisation are going to tell you when the pandemic is over. Is that written into the emergency legislation . No, what is written is that parliament can revoke the extraordinary measures at any time. But it is very clear that the government has been vested with the power for the duration of an emergency that is not defined in the legislation, has been vested which outstrip powers, executive powers anywhere else in the democratic world. Even some of your own critics at home are calling this a dictatorship. But that is simply not true. Even within europe, i can tell you for different, for other countries, who have an open end termination of the power in this constitution and legal framework. I believe hungary has chosen, the government has received rights and possibilities within the confines of its own constitution and rule of law, according to the circumstances and framework with which the country works. crosstalk . Let us unpick this a little bit. You say but you are doing out of the ordinary. Plainly, many highly respected voices in senior positions in politics in europe do not agree. Let me start with the secretary general of the council of europe which is there to safeguard constitutional rights, Democratic Values, human rights across europe and they wrote this to victor orban in a letter. Quote, an indefinite uncontrolled state of emergency cannot guarantee that the basic principles of democracy will be observed nor that the emergency measures restricted and these fundamental human rights are in fact proportionate to the threat that they are supposed to counter. And youll be able find endless quotations and instances of critical attitudes towards hungary and the prime ministerfor a reason. Its been happening for the past ten years. Political lynching for some curious reason, is the Immediate Reaction when hungary chooses its own way to handle its problems. Come on, mr kovacs, you cannot accuse the head of political lynching. But when it comes to lynching, you look at how it happens. It happens through the western european press, it happens through the left liberal parties of the European Party and those who did not really like us for the past ten yea rs. Let me tell you that as of yesterday, the one of the two who are responsible for the rule of law and constitutional transparency and all the Democratic Values within the European Union, explicitly state that Nothing Happened in hungary that goes against the treaty or goes against european values. With respect, youre quoting one commissioner and i can quote you many officials in the european commission, including its chief, who are saying they are extremely concerned about what they see happening in your country and will have the eu at institutional level investigate very carefully whether you have flouted the values of the European Union. And we are ready for that. We are open for that as well as requiring that monitoring should be on for all European Countries, four other countries have decided to provide for the government open end, open end rights. But the point is that you may say that we are doing nothing different but the overwhelming feeling is that you are doing something different. If i may interrupt you forjust a second. It has been maybe two dozen times that i have heard this that theres nothing particular in your legal system, your measures are in line with european treaties, they are not in our concern. We do not care about political opinion. All countries in europe have chosen the best an most efficient way to handle the crisis. That is what hungary is trying to do if you look at our numbers, we have managed to avoid those problems that the uk, italy, spain and other countries were not able to avoid because they were not up and they were not ready to make Decisive Action when it was necessary. Maybe the most important thing you said to me there was, we dont care any more. Let us look at some the specific decrees that the government is now already passing or is contemplating passing as a result of the new emergency powers, which in effect, lets be honest, put democracy in your country in the deep freeze until the government executive chooses to change the situation. Let us start with looking for example, at the fact that all Political Parties under the emergency law are not required to donate 50 of their current account cash to the hungarian Emergency Response fund. The opposition parties in your country say that it will fundamentally cripple their ability to remain viable voices of dissent in opposition. How does that fit with your hungarian democracy . As a matter of fact, opposition parties have asked for monetary financial contributions on behalf of Political Parties and this is an opportunity for them to participate. And i have to tell you that you have pointed out one issue in a question or putting the question in a way that i am afraid is really available to use and the kind of political lynching that ive already mentioned. The very hints, the very suggestions which are embedded in your question, suggest that something abnormal is going on in hungary but that is simply not true. We all know that the costs of measures ahead of us are going to be enormous. We have seen other countries in europe and around the globe with financial monetary measures and new programmes, hungary has developed one of the biggest fiscal plan and its history to go against the effects of the pandemic. And the case is that everybody has to participate. Everyone is going to have to take part. At a time of economic crisis, it is actually fair for the executive to raid the coffers of opposition parties. 0k. In economic terms, people willjudge that on its merits. But i struggle to see how some of the other actions taken by the government by decree could possibly be connected to any way to the Coronavirus Crisis and if one looks at the detail, again, of the way in which your system is being run in this emergency, it is quite plain that you now using powers to hide, hang on, listen to my question. You are hiding controversial actions behind this fig leaf. But if one looks at the Major Economic issues facing your country today, that is Chinese Investment in a Massive Railway project, the rail line, you have no insured during this emergency that there will be no public scrutiny of the economic deals being done on that project. Hang on. It is simply not true. Do not listen to those voices coming from hungary that are trying to tell you that we have over extended. The law accepted by a two thirds majority in parliament is explicit. We can make decrees in due these measures only of fighting the virus. The topics you have just mentioned and are trying to accuse us of over extending, are running through parliament under the normal procedure. It has nothing to do with extraordinary measures, these are not decrees, this is the bill that is been submitted through parliament. We are not trying to open a debate on something which is simply not true. Mr kovacs, you are engaged in alice in wonderland politics, you have created a government that can do what it wants to by decree, you Keep Parliament sitting there as a fig leaf you say no, were still a parliamentary democracy and that all these issues have to go to the parliament. You know that in hungary today, your citizens simply do not buy that stuff. The very sentences youre pronouncing here, te alleged questions are telling us that you have a preconception about what we are doing without knowing the facts on the ground. All governments around eurpose use extraordinary methods in fighting this virus. According to the framework, the circumstances that are best for their countries. We are not overextending it anything like that. Take a look at sweden, france and all the other countries. It was needed in order to be swift, accurate and decisive you needed extraordinary powers, do not try to suggest that the normal element of life and just because this is happening in hungary or in any other country can of red democracy and we are members of the European Union and if theres a debate with any of the agencies, the European Union, i have the data to the commission and through the government the announcement that i just told you is reassuring, we are ready for being tested and all other countries are being tested. Detailing relationship with the other european members, one more question on how your government is using this emergency to enact legislation and take measures which may not be connected to the pandemic at all, let us just go back to one specific issue, which is migration. Last month, hungary indefinitely suspended access to its border transit areas for Asylum Seekers. Your migration minister claimed, quote, we observe a clear link between coronavirus and illegal migrants. Can you explain that to me . All borders in europe are closed for Free Movement as we speak. There is only limited movement, especially available for goods, which is essential in the European Union as a unified economic area. But, otherwise, even yourfreedom to travel and my freedom to travel freely to, say, slovakia or austria is limited. Sure, but you are not processing any asylum claims at all . No, we are not. We suspended it for the duration of the pandemic. The helsinki committee, a Human Rights Committee respected around the world, described your actions taken as a result that you claimed of the pandemic as another expansion of the hungarian governments xenephobic hysteria. Apart from the lyrics that are being sold here by the helsinki committee, committee, which we all know are an overstatement and very obviously antigovernment, let me tell you one thing. For us, there is only one thing that comes first and that is the interest and the health of the hungarian people. It will be irresponsible to keep your borders open for Asylum Seekers among circumstances where you cannot guarantee where they come from, what their Health Status is. It is normal that it is happening in all European Countries not just towards Asylum Seekers but also as european citizen. One more thought on the expanded nature of hungarys Emergency Response to coronavirus. I dont think anyone in europe would fail to understand why hungary has closed down its theatres but one might question why hungary and the government has taken on the power to change the nature of boards of management at theatres as a result of the Coronavirus Crisis. Is it because theatres were the few remaining cultural places where dissent and criticism of your government is possible . Your question is carrying a very deeply political undertone. It has nothing to do with the pandemic measures. We have been reorganising. It is much more to do with your effort to crack down on all forms of cultural dissent. Hang on. You must be kidding. You cannot honestly believe that there is an interpretation. I believe that is an ill concept actually, to try and put everything on the thread of an antigovernment stance in hungary. You have to be more careful on bbc with accepting the lines that are being echoed by our political operants here in hungary or abroad. It is interesting that you talk about having to be careful. Doesnt hungary have to be careful . Even before the pandemic in these emergency powers, the Eu Parliament at the beginning of this year had said, quote, the situation in hungary has deteriorated since the triggering of the article 7 investigation as to whether or not your country was in violation of basic eu values. The parliaments feeling injanuary, long before this began, was that the situation drug governments actions are deteriorating. Your. Fortunately, the feeling of the European Parliament liberal, leftist politicians is not the thing that have an imprint on how we do things in hungary. You can throw out these smoke screens as much as you like, it was a clear parliamentary majority that decided that hungary needed to be investigated. It was not just leftist. The European Parliament simply has no mandate on that. Look at how they have broken their own rules in accepting the declaration and if we are engaged in a discussion with the european body, we believe it is a commission that should be addressed and should be talking to. The commision is the guardian of the treaty and we have always been ready and open to continue discussions with them and normal and proper discussions, not questions that are coming from your mouth, which is having a pre concept of what is happening in hungary according to political opponents. It is not my mouth that counts, it is the european member states. Do not make a generalisation that is not true. The western european liberal green and socialist parties. We have seen that happening for the past ten years, their political game as i have told you that political lynching is going against mr orban and they do not like that we have an immensely big Political Support behind us that is giving us a decisive majority in hungary. You are running the risk, you said there are a great economic consequences to the pandemic and i think your government has gotten a special emergency package that equals tens of billions of euros to try to prop up the hungarian economy. But, in the longer run, if you are to fall foul of an article 7 decision to, for example, cut structural funding in the future from brussels to hungary on top of this economic crisis that you are bound to face along with everybody else in europe, you have a very profound problem. Very fortu nately, that cannot happen. The treaty is specific about this. If you wanted to change the algorithm, the rules, you have to change the treaty. Do not forget that, in the future, the budget for the European Union can only be accepted unanimously and on the part of the political blackmail and campaign against the country for the past six or eight years by now, increasingly, the many investing in europe, leftist, liberal, green politicians, want to make new conditions that are not included in the treaty. And if they talk about the rule of law, how honest is it possible for them to go for new measures that would violate the treaty and would violate the rule that makes the acceptance of any kind of budget as i suggested, unanimous . It cannot be done with that and based on the rule of law, we stick to the original standards in the European Union. We are almost out of time. I want to look at the big picture before we finish. I was interested in this interview when we were talking about what is coming from the European Union from the council of europe, you have used words like lynching, like blackmail. It is quite clear that your view of what you see coming from the eu institutions, it is also quite clear that during this crisis you have expanded ties with china, they have sent you significant amounts of emergency material assistance and we have talked about the Chinese Investment in the rail line from budapest to belgrade, part of the big belt and Road Initiative that the chinese are launching. We have also talked about your government showing your support for vladimir putin, even offering some travel documents for citizens in east ukraine and those living under de facto russian control. Is this part of a profound shift in hungary that you want to appraise the authoritarians and, in essence, youre going to say we do not care about brussels. Were going to stay in the union because its economically advantageous, but were not going to listen to all of this rubbish that they talk about values. Effectively, you are using these words because it would be rude from my mouth to use them. The summary of the accusations that we have seen for the past ten years. If you look at the exact numbers and facts behind which you are suggesting here, our ties with russia or china have nothing to do with exemplary. It is pragmatic, its volume and nature and it doesnt even approach the nature and volume that youre seeing in german russia, german china relationships. Do not use double standards here. Hungary is trying to establish good relationships with everyone around here in Central Europe and the European Union and around the globe and if you point out to china, let me just tell you, who else has sent materials to hungary that is required to fight the virus . We have not received anything from brussels, we have not received nothing from london and we havent seen anything from western europe. Everyone is trying to go for it and most of the materials can only come from china today. So that is why we have chosen china, like many in and basically everybody else. Just to finish, we have talked a lot about the relationship between brussels and i think you would agree that it is not good right now. Do you think theres any prospect of it Getting Better as long is your emergency measures are in place . Well, that would be a logical suggestion from the perspective that you suggested throughout the interview and that is that we are the black sheep of europe. That is simply not true. If you look at the cooperation with the european institutions, you will find that 95 to 98 of the cases of the European Union, we are absolutely coming and going together with the majority by common sense and with all the measures actually that are good for the country. Indeed, we do have debates at some time, pretty big debate actually about some conceptual elements and we are entitled to have our own concept, our own approach to conceptual ideological issues and we do not accept that moral high ground many are occupying in western europe. We have seen this happening for ten years. None of it came true. And it cannot be sustained. In any debate the we have had with hungary. Take a proper look at the facts, take a proper look at the circumstance and framework, and we are trying to make the best and most efficient measures against the virus. Zoltan kovacs, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. Hello there. Tuesday was another sunny but windy day for many parts of the country. There was some cloud for a while, actually, across cornwall, the channel islands, gave a couple millimetres of rain, and then in the sunshine along the west coast of wales, south coast of england, temperatures reached 21 celsius. And we had a lovely sunset across the southern parts of england, helped by a bit of high cloud thats coming in from continental europe. Still actually a lot of wet weather to come in the mediterranean, but our weather is dominated by that area of High Pressure over scandinavia. Not as many isobars on the chart for wednesday, the winds wont be quite as strong. But with a bit of a breeze overnight, these are the temperatures we are starting off with on wednesday morning. And, again, with lighter winds in the scottish glens, there may well be some frost around here. There may well be some mist and a low cloud affecting the southern uplands, onto the pennines and the welsh hills, but, again, that wont last long at all, it soon gets blown away. Lots of sunshine on wednesday, a little bit hazy at times perhaps across more southern parts of the uk. But the winds wont to be quite a strong, it may well be a degree or two warmer. Still a touch cooler along those north sea coasts, but as you head further west across the uk, those temperatures widely 20 21 degrees for england and wales. As we move into thursday, again, some mist and some low cloud to clear away early in the morning, same sort of areas. Again, lots of sunshine around, that higher cloud is drifting a little bit further north by this stage. The winds will be much lighter though on wednesday, everywhere. It will feel warmer as well. The temperatures will probably peek at maybe 25 degrees somewhere in oxfordshire, berkshire or hampshire. Thats probably going to be the peak of the temperatures on thursday. Mind you, fridays not far behind, again, a few mist and fog patches to clear away very quickly in the morning. And then light winds again, lots of sunshine around too, and those temperatures still making 22 23 degrees across southern parts of england and wales. A little bit cooler across northern scotland, bit of a northerly breeze here. The weather is starting to change a bit over the weekend. Pressure is going to be much lower, especially across scandinavia, but also across the uk as well, pressure is falling away. A very weak weather front coming into more northern parts of the uk. That may bring a few showers across scotland, mainly northern scotland, perhaps into northern ireland. On the whole, it is going to be dry over the weekend. A bit more cloud coming down the eastern side of the uk, temperatures beginning to slip away a little, highs of 19 or 20. This is bbc news, im Sally Bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. President trump brushes aside oppostion to his temporary immigration ban, he insists its to protect americans from the current economic crisis. By pausing immigration we will help put unemployed Americans First in line forjobs as america reopens. The Uns World Food Programme issues a stark warning about the millions in regions of conflict who could starve, because of the coronavirus outbreak. A plane carrying much needed, protective clothing, has landed in the uk. The government remains under pressure for failing to supply hospitals and care homes adequately. 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