Welcome to hardtalk with me. As the covid 19 pandemic takes hold, the capacity of governments around the world to respond is being seriously tested. My guess is the secretary general of the United States two nations, antonio guterres, hasjust launched a humanitarian appeal focused mainly on helping a0 of the most vulnerable countries. He says that a global approach is the only way to fight the virus and without critical support, the impact of covid 19 it will be deep and particularly severe on poorer nations. But how realistic are his proposals and who will pay for them . Secretary general, antonio guterres, welcome to hardtalk. You have described covid 19 as a threat to all humanity, what you mean by that and how worried are you . First of all, it is a pleasure to be with you again. It is clear, i mean, if this pandemic would be left alone, if you wouldnt be able to suppress it, it wouldnt be able to suppress it, it would reach millions of millions of people and have millions of millions of people, victims dying of it. It is clearly the guest threat to humanity that we have seen in the recent past. But is one reason why it is so important that instead of acting separately, each wondering what each one wants. It is essential to have Effective International cooperation, Co Ordination to defeat this virus, to win this war against covid i9. This virus, to win this war against covid19. When people hear the secretary general of the United Nations use such language, millions good diet, you not going scare people . And i put to you what professor michael levitt, who is a Nobel Laureate and stanford by a physicist, is none various productions. He predicts a quick coronavirus recovery. He told the Los Angeles Times this week, we are going to be fine, what we need to do is control of the panic. As a matter of fa ct, is control of the panic. As a matter of fact, what were seeing is exponential increase in cases everywhere in the world. We had the first definite china, then we are having its, the epicentre in europe. There is a strong risk of the epicentre moving to the United States and we are seeing now, the global response, it is much less equipped to defeat the disease. We are seeing an equipped to defeat the disease. We are seeing an enormous equipped to defeat the disease. We are seeing an enormous increase in cases globally. The best Scientific Evidence indicates that unless there isa evidence indicates that unless there is a fairly strong effort to suppress the disease, these might reach until the so called herd immunity is reached, this might reach that 260 to 70 of the global population. Even if this disease kills less and other outbreaks, like a bowler recently, this would also mean millions of people dying in the world and this is absolutely unacceptable. Also morally unacceptable. Also morally unacceptable. So when it we need to make sure there is an articulated response, co ordinated response under the guidance of the who and i believe the g20 meeting this week is a Good Opportunity to create the mechanism of Co Ordination under the who. An articulated response to be able to suppress collectively this virus and then, once suppressed, to be able to contain its until a vaccine is found because only with a vaccine is found because only with a vaccine would be able to eradicate the disease. And i truly believe that in the absence of an effective co ordinated action, if each country will go on acting by itself, we risk to have this pandemic with catastrophic impacts in people and, lets not forget, catastrophic impacts in the Global Economy, any livelihoods and especially, with the most vulnerable suffering the most. You put a lot in that answer, lets unpack it a little bit. Youvejust launched a humanitarian appeal to raise funds for developing nations which you predict are going to be struggling to cope with the covid i9, but i put it to you that half a million cases globally, nearly 20,000 deaths, should the United Nations not have done Something Like this much sooner . Well, probably, yes. We have been acting but we believe that at the moment, we needed to enhance our response. There was the first appeal from the World Health Organization of 600 million. But this time, we need to look very carefully into those situations of extreme vulnerability. Im talking about areas of conflict, fragile states, refugee camps, displaced peoples camps and all other situations in the poorest countries of the world where the capacity to respond is much less effective. And the disease is now coming to those areas. And so what we want is to increase the medical capacity, increase the volume of equipment that is available, but also to look into health, water and sanitation. To look into all the things necessary to contain the spread of the disease, to look into the livelihoods of the population is most effective. This isjust livelihoods of the population is most effective. This is just for the most effective. This is just for the most vulnerable of the vulnerable and this is why, it is a drop in the ocean. Were talking about 2 billion when, for instance, the package being discussed in the us economy just for package being discussed in the us economyjust for america is 2 trillion. Was not going to come from . Ill tell you trillion. Was not going to come from . Ill tell you what trillion. Was not going to come from . Ill tell you what ones for my government minister in liberia said during the Ebola Outbreak in 201a, that killed 11,000 people in western africa, he says that now, you could look to the past for the west to help that they are battling the same thing so it is not clear any help is coming at all. So how confident can you be at that the global spread that youre so worried about, is going to get the assistance it needs . Is a matter of selfinterest. Talking about a pandemic. First of all, our Main Objective with the appeal is to avoid the humanitarian support that we are already receiving for all other aspects, water and sanitation, food, protection, shelter, all of those vulnerable situations in the world, from syria to yemen, south sedona, to the review receipt. We want to make sure we have Additional Support for covid 19 and if the money doesnt come from the humanitarian action were already having. What is your question, this is a matter of enlightened self interest. If this pandemic is controlled in the developed world but left to spread like wildfire in the developing countries, we would have millions of cases, millions of people dying but not only that, that will create the opportunity for mutations of the virus stop and the virus can come backin virus stop and the virus can come back ina virus stop and the virus can come back in a way that even vaccines which are developed will not be effective even in the developed world. There is no way to fight this with half of humanity. Either you fight it globally or risk being defeated by the virus and we cannot be defended by the virus. Are you not trying to scare originations by kind of saying, if you dont fight the virus in poorer countries, it leaves the virus free to cycle back around the globe and affect you . M is not a matter of scaring, this is the reality. This is a reality. It is in the lighted self interest of the developed world to support the developing world, to suppress this virus in Co Ordination with more developed countries of the world. And that is a very important thing for the g20 to take into account. I believe we need, in the g20, a mechanism under the guidance of the World Health Organization in order for the countries of the g20 to be able to combine different approaches in some countries with the emphasis more on testing and tracing and quarantine, and less on lockouts. Countries with less Testing Capacity stop if there are more lockouts. In any case, it is to be very tough everywhere and in a combined way, an articulated wave stop that represents 80 of the world economy. It is not enough stop even if it is to gather, when the g20 comes, it is suppressed in that part of the world, is absolutely essential not to leave other countries behind and thatis to leave other countries behind and that is why ive been advocating for a very strong package, a package of the level of sumac digits of the Global Economy. Either will be spent by each country itself. You will see what the United States is doing, what the United States is doing, what European Union is doing, what the chinese have done. We need two or 3 billion to be able to support the response to covid 19 in developing countries as a whole. Not only the most vulnerable situations like we are addressing out this appeal but in all of the developing countries. You have the imf, already with 1 trillion of lending capacity. You have the possibility of special lending rates to be issued. For severe swaps amongst Central Banks that could help especially emerging economies. We have a number of entries that can be put in place in a co ordinated way and we can win this battle if we are together. You made reference to the fa ct together. You made reference to the fact that the United States is going to be pushing through trillions of dollars to ensure that covid 19 doesnt have such a detrimental impact on the United States. Are you kind of saying that, look, rich countries like the us could cough up more for the developing nations . Is that the kind of message you are trying to put over, that they could do more . Yes, but there are instruments which allow to happen. Asi instruments which allow to happen. As i said, the imf has already 1 trillion capacity to lend. We are in a war situation with the virus, we need a war economy. As the us is printing money in the west, we can do it globally in a way that is a fa ct if do it globally in a way that is a fact if to address the challenges of covid 19. Fact if to address the challenges of covid19. You are clearly arguing for a co ordinated International Response to deal with what is after all, a global threat. What do you think about the way individual governments have been responding to the pandemic . We seem quite a difference in approach, france for instance, has more stringent measures than at the united kingdom, which has taken more of a wait and see approach. Donald trump, United States, seems to be more relaxed, saying that he wants to see the us economy going back to normal at easter, april the 12th. What is your sense of how National Governments are responding . Are you content . Well, of course im not happy with the present situation. There is an effective dysfunctionality in the way this is all happening. We have not a global government system. Of course, the World Health Organization is a un authority on health, theyve issued guidelines but many hundreds are not respected them or sometimes they do or dont. So the only way out is through Effective International cooperation andi Effective International cooperation and i believe the g20 can be the nucleus of that cooperation, aiming at acting together in an articulated way. But look, this is not only the covid 19, look at peace and security. The relationship between the biggest powers has never been so dysfunctional. The Security Council has been paralysed in relation to many of the conflict situations in the world. The Climate Change, it has been so difficult to bring people together. We are witnessing a serious problem and that problem is that International Cooperation has never been at such a low level and we need to make sure that people understand that as threats become a global, covid 19 is another one, Climate Change already existed, terrorism, global terrorism is there. As these threats are becoming global, we effectively need to have a very strong commitment to International Cooperation and to strengthen multilateral institutions also i know this is not popular, and some media, and that many think they can do it by themselves. That each one by itself is, or himself, is the best way to deal with these problems. But the reality shows, and covid 19 is showing it dramatically, over we join, covid 19 is showing it dramatically, over wejoin, either we are in solidarity, either we are together we can be defeated. Secretary general, you sound as a man really, a world leader, in despair about the state of the lack of International Cooperation. What do you think lies behind this dire situation where key powers are not cooperating in the way you would like to see them . What is the reason . We are in a transition moment. We lived in a bipolar world and now we are in a chaotic situation which is no longer multi polar or unipolar or bipolar. Our relations are unclear. We are seeing more and more spoilers in international relations, less capacity to control them and as i said, relations between the biggest powers have never been so dysfunctional as they are today. Crosstalk why, can i ask you to clarify . Are you talking about United States and china . Could you be more specific . Well it is very specific, the United States and china are two fundamental pillars of the Global Economy and the need to come together to fight covid 19. I mean, there are problems, there are questions, there are eventually failures here and there. But instead of making that the issue, the issue is to bring people together stop and look at Global Supply chains. You need to have ventilators everywhere, you need to have tests everywhere, in its medical equipment everywhere. Imean, it in its medical equipment everywhere. I mean, it is a good reason to do it ina way i mean, it is a good reason to do it in a way in which there is a common planning, a Common Supply chain and the possibility to provide it to people everywhere in the same circumstances. This is not a moment to fight each other, this is not the moment for division, the they moment to come together. Its not easy in the present world and we know all the present world and we know all the contradictions that exist but the contradictions that exist but the choice is between chaos and united action to respond to a very dramatic threat that humankind is facing. So its not helpful when you hear comments from the Trump Administration including the president himself referring to covid 19 as that chinese virus. President himself referring to covid 19 as that chinese viruslj covid 19 as that chinese virus. |j think this is not the moment for anyone to blame others. Probably, id believe in the end we will need to do Lessons Learned and need to see what failed and why it failed in several parts of the world, but this is the moment to come together, to unite and to defeat covid 19. To rescue our lives. I want to put to you an alternative view which is not just compounded by President Trump we have also seen Philip Thomas of Bristol University and britain, a professional of Risk Management saying that in order to solve one problem we will create a bigger problem we will create a bigger problem and he says keeping the economy going is crucial otherwise measures will do more harm than good, and that kind of reflects President Trumps view saying that if it were up to the doctors, they may say let us shut down the entire world and you cannot do that. Do you accept there has got to be a trade off between killing the economy and tackling covid 19 . Trade off between killing the economy and tackling covid19 . But thatis economy and tackling covid19 . But that is exactly the reason why i am saying we need to have together a package of, a double digit of the percentage of Global Economy, and a package that east country can do by itself, but obviously it is much more powerful if everything is combined. A package that today is different from 2008. It is no longer to rescue the financial system, this is not a financial crisis, that they human practice stopping this package needs to be put in place in order to support salaries of those who are losing theirjobs. In order to support company for them to preserve those jobs and preserve their existence. In order to keep households afloat, Keep Companies afloat, especially small and medium sized business. In order to have the Global Economy able to survive this crisis, and then, to have also a concerted action in relation to the exit strategy and in relation to the exit strategy and in relation to the exit strategy and in relation to the, i would say, recovery of the economy. Is an opportunity to have a recovery that can be of a more sustainable and inclusive economy. We dont need to rebuild everything as it was, we can do it much better in the future. And who take the leadership for that . You mentioned the g20 and you can look to them, but shouldnt the United Nations do that . After all, the World Health Organization is pa rt the World Health Organization is part of the un family, and surely you should be saying, i want that United Nations empowered, which is the point at professor ian golding makes, a professor of development and globalisation, we need to empower the un so that we can come together to tackle this threat. Why dont you say i am tony gutierrez, i wa nt to dont you say i am tony gutierrez, i want to be the focal point of tackling this covid 19 . Want to be the focal point of tackling this covid19 . This is not a question of narcissism stopping what we need is a concerted action, and the un is ready to do whatever the un is asked for. We are now, for instance, putting forward all our supply chain, in order to offer and be much more effective in relation to medical equipment in all parts of the world be but id believe the g20 represents 80 of the world economy. The other 20 have an opportunity, with no other similar, in the concentration of power, because power is not in the un stopping power, whether we like it or not is in the member states. They are coming together, 80 , they have the chance to prove a co ordinated action. In terms of the message you would like to give to the rest of the world in terms of how they should respond to covid 19, young people in particular, doctor Tedros Ghebreyesus has said to them, you are not invincible, dont think this is just are not invincible, dont think this isjust something are not invincible, dont think this is just something that affect older people or people with Underlying Health conditions, what is your Public Health message to the world . And un is ready to fully support it. I could of course be very happy if there would be a global agreement to increase the governors powers that could be placed in the un, but that is not my objective. At the present moment, my objective is to help rescue the world. You have a voice though and i ask you to use it now. Be responsible, be smart, but above all, understand that only with solidarity we can defeat this disease. Only with solidarity but also with a vaccine, which is something that you referred to earlier on in this interview, so where do you think we stand with that . Are you optimistic about us having one quite soon, and are you also confident that when it is developed, it will be shared amongst all the countries that need it, in particular poorer countries with yellow i am not an expert, so i cannot say i am optimistic. I insist that everybody should do everything to make it happen as soon as possible, which means working together instead of competing among the Different Research centres on the Different Research centres on the Different Research centres on the different countries, and i think it is absolutely vital that when the vaccine is distributed, to be distributed globally and not to have the privileged having the vaccine and the port submitted to the disease. And you also mentioned that the most vulnerable of the vulnerable others living in conflict areas, and refugee camps of course, as a former head of the United Nations high commissioner for refugees you know quite well that what the refugees from the northern Refugee Council says, how can you do social distancing when so many people are credited together in a tiny camp, this is a disaster waiting to happen. You have got to make sure that people like those are protected. It is a nightmare that we face. The United Nations and make a commission for refugees, are coming together. The Main Objective is to prevent, to avoid at all cost the virus coming to the settlement, some are isolated, others unfortunately not, and at the same time to boost the extent possible the local capacity and what washingtons facilities and all other mechanisms, the medical equipment, but they have to say looking into refugee camps, into the slums of many of the big cities in the developing world, these can be an effective nightmare and one reason more to do Everything Possible to support these countries for them not to become the weak point in the world. Lets never forget one thing. Our Global Health system is as strong as our weakest Health System in the world. So there is all reasons to mobilise resources to support those that have less capacity today. Finally, iwant to support those that have less capacity today. Finally, i want you to just reflect on how you think the covid 19 crisis is going to affect the world . What is the impact going to be socially, economically, politically. What is the long term impact in your view and could there be some positive benefits, like people travel less for reasons other than pressing 1s . I think one thing is clear, the Digital World will have a huge boost. I think one of the Big Questions of humankind is artificial intelligence, fibre space in general, how to make it a force for good, and it is clear that we will have a boost in the Digital World, Digital Technologies because they are proving their extreme importance now to allow us to go on working, but largely Digital Communication mechanisms and using digital instruments, so the Digital World will have a boost and there must be a lot of International Corporations making sure that we also address the challenges that it poses, but to make it really a force for good and for a much broader capacity, to answer to the challenges of development in the world. On the other hand, i think this will give us an opportunity to look into Climate Change seriously. It is not through the virus that we fight Climate Change but there is a clear demonstration that when we rebuild our economies we will have the chance to do it in a more sustainable way. We dont need, now that we are consuming less energy, another we are moving less, it is a moment to think, how we consume energy, how we move, and to do it better in the future. And many other aspects of International Cooperation, i hope, that this will bea cooperation, i hope, that this will be a kind of wake up call to make the world understand how important multilateralism is, how mobile government is and how did it or International Corporations today to be the normal way in which countries relate to each other. Thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. Hello there. For the next few days it looks like england and wales are certainly going to stay dry with plenty of sunshine after chilly mornings, but this weather front lying across scotland and Northern Ireland is going continue to bring quite a bit of cloud like what we saw on wednesday and it really wont be moving far and also thursday and friday look pretty similar, rather grey skies for scotland and Northern Ireland with some spots of rain. To the north of it, to the far northwest, it is brighter with some sunshine, perhaps one or two showers, and to the south of it for most of england and wales, again after a cold start it is another sunny day, those temperatures reaching 13, 1a degrees. A little bit cooler along southern eastern coast, maybe not quite as warm as what we have had over the last few days. As we head through thursday night, it stays cloudy across much of scotland, with a few spots of rain at times. Elsewhere clear skies. Is going to be another cold night with some frost around, less cold under those cloudy skies further north. Friday is a repeat performance again, rather cloudy skies, scotland and Northern Ireland, perhaps brighter for the northwest, for the Northern Isles and the western isles, one or two showers around and for much of england and wales it is another dry and sunny day after that cold start. Temperatures coming down a touch, highs of 11 or 12 degrees. Into the weekend, that band of cloud across scotland and Northern Ireland with the cold front here and we open the floodgates to a much colder northerly for saturday and sunday and it is really going to feel noticeably cold, particularly when you factor in the wind, and yes there will be even a few wintry showers, so this is the picture for saturday. Variable cloud, some sunshine too, wind blowing in wintry showers, northern and eastern scotland, perhaps Eastern England and it will feel quite raw with that exposure to that wind. Images ranging from 6 11 degrees across the south. Sunday, similar story. You will feel even colder on sunday, again variable cloud, some sunshine and chance of a few wintry showers and eastern coast and those temperatures struggling to get into double figures. These are the values that will be showing on the thermometer. Add on the strength of the wind and there will be significant chill factor. A few places feeling like they are not getting much above freezing. So there will be a noticeable chill to the air this weekend. As we head into next week, we are holding onto the cold air. Could see something a little bit less cold for a time before more cold air moved down from the north and you can see that slight recovery of temperatures into double figures for many. The chance of it turning colder again towards the end of the week particularly into the north. This is bbc news im simon pusey. Our top stories President Trump says america is gaining ground against coronavirus but new york fears the worst. Spains death toll overtakes china, in britain the rush to get protective equipment to an overstretched Health Service amid warnings that some London Hospitals are running out of capacity and in other news, the australian man accused of killing 51 people in the new zealand mosque attacks last year enters a surprise plea of guilty
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