Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20170322

On the Flight Restrictions too billion the paper claims there are fears of an alqaeda plot. ee eeiie eeezie elfiuezeii ,. M,. , and asks where next for Northern Ireland . the Times Newspaper shows a picture of Martin Mcguinness coffin being carried through londonderry. Express. And the guardian Reports Accusations that a police unit used hackers to spy on protesters. Now its time for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. In mid april, turkish people voted will vote in referendum to change the constitution and give the president more power. Poll suggested as a tight race so the votes of turkish tight race so the vistas af turkish,. ; living tight race so the votes of turkish,. ; living in europe could help citizens living in europe could help swing the result. But ministers have been prevented from campaigning in some European Countries, revoking a major diplomatic row. My guess to make guest is the opposition leader, selin sayek boke. Born in new york she has enjoyed a meteoric rise in the party after a return to the capital nearly 15 years ago. The chp as opposed to the referendum, claiming it will give president erdogan too much power. But do they have an alternative vision for turkey . Selin sayek boke, there selin sayek boke, there are over 3 million expat turkish voters living in europe, about 6. 5 of total voters. How far could they result of the determine the result of the they could ease. The referendum . They could ease of the change the Referendum Result by one oi change the Referendum Result by one or two points. Therefore or two percentage points. Therefore they are critical in the end result that we would get. And, when you see what has been going on with some 7 g miNisters Being denied Turkish Ministers being denied permission to campaign in some §,;5 ; 7. ~ w the netherlands, 54455; iii43175; hs heeeseqe what do you think . Do you germany. What do you think . Do you support the government or do you the countries . Support the European Countries . think you are i think providing a suiqeieef think you are i think providing a mazes] picture think you are i think providing a uuzusflass picture is i follzflseesa eifioti is assessarg have follsflseesa eifioti is fisssssarg have been struggling for years to we have been struggling for years to find democracy in turkey and we do not speak of it lightly. We§ find democracy in turkey and we do not speak of it lightly. Wei of not speak of it lightly. We speak of democracy is going beyond borders and being necessary for everybody and being necessary for everybody and geography. Therefore this and every geography. Therefore this Freedom Of Speech is notjust necessary i turkey, Freedom Of Speech is notjust necessary l turkey, it is necessary necessary in turkey, it is necessary globally. Said necessary in turkey, it is necessary globally. Said that, we find globally. Having said that, we find it unfortunate that this has globally. Having said that, we find it diplomatic e that this has globally. Having said that, we find it diplomatic row, tthis has globally. Having said that, we find it diplomatic row, as iis has globally. Having said that, we find it diplomatic row, as you as globally. Having said that, we find it diplomatic row, as you say, rather a diplomatic row, as you say, rather than diplomacy a diplomatic row, as you say, rather than diplomacy being an than having diplomacy being an integral part of the solution. Instead of actually creating a 52534155213; instead of actually creating a jfj through diplomacy, instead of actually creating a jfj throl we diplomacy, instead of actually creating a jfj throl we have nacy, instead of actually creating a jfj throl we have absorbed an unfortunately we have absorbed an escalation of internal politics playing here. When Foreign Policy was instrumental eyes by local actors all parties involved into making it i domestic actors all parties involved into making it domestic at the making it a domestic argument at the end of the so, here there are issues, i think. Issues, ithink. One issues, i think. One the two issues, i think. One the level of international where it of International Relations where it is politics we absorb globally, fa cts is politics we absorb globally, facts in front of Perception Portent and democracy is portent and putting democracy is portent and putting Democracy Isa is portent and putting democracy is a vital. This been an international issue, unfortunately, that has been instrumental Eyes International issue, unfortunately, that has politics. Rumental Eyes International issue, unfortunately, that has politics. This ntal Eyes International issue, unfortunately, that has politics. This ntal eye we domestic politics. This is where we are unhappy with what has been going because clearly what have on because clearly what the mps have done, what our ministers have done is quite against turkish and we is quite against turkish law. And we have been adamant speaking for have been adamant in speaking for democracy and for rule of law. So, just to clglf you do not believe just to clarify, you do not believe that Turkish Ministers should have been trying to address rallies to isssfi trsufis ts Sssrsss Rams S voters, isssfi trsufis ts sssrsss rsufituss s voters, expats living in turkish voters, expats living in europe. You do not believe they should have done that . That they should have done that . That they should have done that . That they should have tried to do that . Turkish law clearly states, and this was the law that was brought into line by the ruling party themselves where they said politicians cannot go and do rallies are broad. There are two issues here, is that as are two issues here, one is that as are two issues here, one is that as a minister, i you go as a minister a minister, if you go as a minister abroad the new or presenting 80 Million People and not a political these ministers view. Unfortunately, these ministers not 7; ministerial 7 have not travelled in ministerial positions. They have travelled to find support for a political view. This is against our domestic law. Why then, did the former chairman of your party, was he given your party, why was he given permission to make an anti referendum speech by the german was going to do that authorities . He was going to do that and the government says that there have been people who are pushing for ano have been people who are pushing for a no vote allowed to campaign. The government says it sounds like a government says itsounds like a, Double Standard do they have a Double Standard that do they have a point . The content there, if it is not just for point . The content there, if it is notjust for a political point . The content there, if it is not just for a Political Campaign but a meeting with your voters, you but a msetingwithyoorvotersfyml able to do that. But in your are able to do that. But not in your ministerial position, using your ministerial position, using your ministerial position, using your ministerial position facilities. Therefore there was nothing illegal in our Party Meeting with voters. It is the process and how it is being utilised. But it is not the fault of the ak party, the ruling party in turkey. Therefore anybody who wants to speak in favour of the referendum on their behalf is going to be accused by you of abusing their position of power. Well, they could accused by you of abusing their po with of power. Well, they could accused by you of abusing their po with their wer. Well, they could accused by you of abusing their po with their own well, they could accused by you of abusing their po with their own partys they could accused by you of abusing their po with their own partys Poweriuld Accused by you of abusing their po with their own partys power was go with their own partys power was rather than using the powers of the states a state rather than using the powers of the states a state plane with the states urges a state plane with the facilities supported by the state itself. Therefore there is a fine line there which has. Be walked. Line there which has to be walked. But in terms of the diplomatic row, the ruling party has emerged stronger from this row. The ruling party has emerged strongerfrom this row. The poll strongerfrom this row. The dolls. ,7 ,. ,. 7 suggests that strongerfrom this row. The dell. 7 7, 7 7. 7 suggests that the two strongerfrom this row. The ooll77 7 777 7 7 7 7 7 suggests that the two sides are suggests thetthe two sides ere neck suggests thotthe two Sioes Ore Neck and neck. 40 for each fiufifiifig fiejei efifi fiejel 377 5 f . . . Eeifi 20 of voters are undecided. And 20 of voters are undecided. One researcher has said we should not be angry with germans and the angry with the germans and the 7 l angry with the germans and the as is; we angry with the germans and the egsg we should fight a dutch, we should fight them a little. They contributed to the yes vote by at least two points. So the row has benefited the ruling7pacty7 well, there are two things here. Um, well, there are two things here. One is that on the ground when i speak to the public i do not observe row actually having turned into a significant increase or a change in the pattern of votes stop however, it is quite to hear it is Guite Disaggointing to hear an} from the ruling party claims mp from the ruling party claims success out of an issue that hurts 80 million turkish people they live in turkey beyond that, millions in turkey and, beyond that, millions of turkish expats who live abroad. Of turkish expats who livesabrosde is of turkish expats who livesabroade is that such an it is disappointing that such an 7 has been made into a point of issue has been made into a point of votes in a referendum. How does it hurt the turkish this whole hurt the turkish people . This whole diplomatic row has actually contributed to the very far right extreme Political Movement abroad which creates sentiments of other writers say she. And it is this otherness, turkish expats abroad will be included in that group. Therefore their life will 7 777 will be included in that group. Therefore their life will be 7 777 will be included in that group. Therefore their life will be more 777 therefore their life will be more difficult now. Beyond that, we have an issue that this relationship £5,455; Eu And Turkey 7 77 an issue that this relationship £5,455; Eu And Turkey is 7 7 77 an issue that this relationship t g eu g turkey is further between Eu And Turkey is further strain. This has social implications, political implications, political implications, economic implications. Now implications, economic implications. Now, socially, it is the lives now, socially, it is the lives of the expats that i think of and the political issues that we take to the the expats that i think of and the po as al issues that we take to the the expats that i think of and the po as a issues that we take to the the expats that i think of and the po as a political hat we take to the the expats that i think of and the po as a Political Partye take to the the expats that i think of and the po as a Political Party of ake to the the expats that i think of and the po as a Political Party of the to the eu as a Political Party of the universal values that it eu as a Political Party of the univer for values that it eu as a Political Party of the univer for and values that it eu as a Political Party of the univer for and the l values that it eu as a Political Party of the univer for and the standards hat it eu as a Political Party of the univer for and the Standards Thatt Eu as a Political Party of the univer for and the standards that it stands for and the standards that it represents, any relationship is represents, any relationship that is strained on account of g domestic strained on account of the domestic political issue is suggestive that turkey would be further away from universal standards that we those universal standards that we ca re those universal standards that we care for deeply, democratically. The care for deeplyfdetoocratjcallv. The issueis care for deeplyfdetoocratjcallv. The issue is that the eu was a third issue is that the eu was a huge economic turkey. Third issue is that the eu was a huge economic turkey. It huge Economic Party for turkey. It represents 47 of turkeys i boards it represents 40 of turkish and it represents 40 of turkish imports and, beyond that bad, 80 of Foreign Investment in Turkey Foreign direct investment in turkey comes from the eu countries. Therefore, clearly, relationships that are strained just for a couple more votes in a domestic is leading. Who are referendum. Is leading. Who are you blaming for this . We have now had the German Foreign minister say less sea ra s lessee. Suggests {is on that today turkey is on saturday that today turkey is further away from becoming a member furtheraway frombecoming a member the European Union than ever h s f you h s w you blame the state of we should take a affairs . We should take a longer perspective here. Over a course, the gersgective here. Over a course the between gersgective here. Over a course. The between the Eu And Turkey relations between the Eu And Turkey by all parties involved l this by all parties involved in this negotiation have taken a myopic and pragmatic pro viewpoint. Of pragmatic pro viewpoint. Instead of being concerned for Democratic Values, U Nfortu Nately being concerned for Democratic Values, unfortunately all parties, values, unfortu Natelyall Partiesr at the eu and the ruling party both at the eu and the ruling party in turkey have made use of the processg their in turkey have made use of the process m their own in turkey have made use of the processg their own political process for their own political goals. This i still operational goals. This is still operationat we believe that what we are today. We believe that what we are seeing in this diplomatic row with nothing different in essence on the nothing different in. Essence on. The 15 years that i described. 15 years that i just described. Having said that, all parties have a pa rt having said that, all parties have a part in the blame if we are looking for a blame part in the blame if we are looking fora blame in part in the blame if we are looking for a blame in this game. However, i would say that instead of looking for blame, let us look forward and bring Democratic Values into turkey. Either hand with the eu by ourselves. Looking forward, one thing that may unravel if the eu turkey Migration Deal whereby turkey would stem the flow of refugees from the middle east through turkish land into europe and now we have had to 51; rees 53; 35s . As ass; 95; 21; ge; rees 53; 35s . As ass; 95; e; foreign lfes efses sag ssa as fsas as; e; foreign minister, as will as Turkish Foreign minister, as will as the saying that they are his refugee policy, re evaluating his refugee policy, this refugee deal. Is that farming that concerns you . Does i seem as that concerns you . Does it seem as if turkey is moving away even more if turkey is moving awag even more from the if turkey is moving away even more from the European Union . Let me start by sage; it is unfortunate start by saying it is unfortunate that indeed. The relationship that indeed, the relationship between the Eu And Turkey was reduced to worry about the Refugee Crisis. This deal has to be a separate issue than eu turkey separate Issuejhan7eu 7iuckey Membership Negotiations. Clearly the Refugee Crisis is not a Istsssl Membership negotiations. Clearly the refuge it crisis is not a Istsssl Membership negotiations. Clearly the refuge it is sis is not a Istsssl Membership negotiations. Clearly the refuge it is an is not a Istsssl Membership negotiations. Clearly the refuge it is an internationalg crisis. It is an international crisis. It is an international crisis. Therefore the solution should not be one that is linked to this relationship but one where we ea . This relationship but one where we i,;, ,77 777 7 this relationship but one where we 1 21; a true this relationship but one where we 1 a true burden to this relationship but one where we 7. A true burden to share this relationship but one where we y countries iurden to share i this relationship but one where we t countries that n to share this relationship but one where we t countries that have ;hare this relationship but one where we t countries that have been all countries that have been involved in the buildup. The involved in thrbuilduotc thew 77 as well is being exposed to crisis as well is being exposed to the crisis itself. We have been unhappy and from the very outset of this that the crisis has been significantly linked to the eu turkey relationship. It is also u nfortu nate turkey relationship. It is also unfortunate that a Membership Negotiation is linked to a human where People Negotiation is linked to a human where people have negotiation is linked to a human 77 37 where people have been . Crisis where people have been into a negotiation diminished into a negotiation instrument. We speak of people who have had. Flee their countries. Have had to flee their countries. 0k. Have had to flee their countries. Ok. So we look. The repercussions ok. So we look at the repercussions of the jifjijj and i ok. So we look at the repercussions of the jifjij and i have of the diplomatic row and i have been trying to save that the government has been complaining of Double Standards in its treatment of Jeuele Eieejeeje ie iii ieeieeei if only Jeuele Eeeejeeje ie Iee Eeeeeieee Le only by Jeuele Eeeejeeje Ie Iee Eeeeeeeeee Ee only by miNisters Being denied Jeuele Eeeejeeje Ie Iee Eeeeeeeeee Ee only by to Nisters Being denied Jeuele Eeeejeeje Ie Iee Eeeeeeeeee Ee only by to actuallyieing denied Jeuele Eeeejeeje Ie Iee Eeeeeeeeee Ee only by to actually address iied in europe but also, for campaigns in europe but also, for example, we have had thousands and thousands of