Greta thunberg speaks to the bbcs Justin Rowlatt about the future of the climate protest movement, the coronavirus pandemic and her life. This is Greta Thunberg if youve never seen her before. As youve never as youve never seen as youve never seen her before. The worlds leaving climate activist has agreed to her first major interview since lockdown began three months ago. She is on the sofa with her dog roxie. Come on. I am in a greenhouse in the middle of beautiful kew gardens. Wired up to the internet for one of the most in depth interviews Greta Thunberg has ever given. Greta, how are you . Hi. I am fine, how are you . I am very well indeed, it is good to speak to you. Thank you very much for talking to us. First of all, let me ask you a bit about lockdown. Obviously sweden has had a different experience than other countries, but what has the coronavirus experience been like for you . What have you been doing with your days . I am really the last one to complain because i havent then that affected by at all. I thought im just home anyways so i might as well just i thought im just home anyways so i might as welljust enjoy it. There has been an incredible response to coronavirus with countries around the world. Why do you think that Climate Change doesnt generate the same sense of urgency . Obviously because its not being treated as a crisis. It is still seen as this vague, distant topic. Without perceiving it as a crisis, you wont be able to take measures that are necessary. Why do you think Climate Change isnt regarded as a crisis in the same way as the coronavirus was not because arguably, its much more ofa not because arguably, its much more of a systemic threat. Its not like people are dying from it, but its a kind of crisis that will sneak up on us kind of crisis that will sneak up on us later if we dont do anything. But one thing that has come out of the Coronavirus Crisis has been the politicians have been saying we have to listen to the scientists. Do you think politicians will now start to listen to scientist on Climate Change as well . Mange matches is listen to the science, listen to the scientists. Now all of a sudden, you hear that everyone is saying that. It feels like the crisis has changed the role of science in our societies. We actually have to listen to the experts. But it seems like we listen to the scientists we afford to listen to. You have met now a hold host of World Leaders. How well do they understand the challenge of Climate Change . My experience with the level of knowledge and understanding, even among people in power is very, very low, much lower than you think. I first met Greta Thunberg back in september on the deck of the racing yacht that was about to whisk her across the atlantic. That then 16 year old was famous but nowhere near as famous as she was going to become. Ourjob is to demand a solution not to provide the solutions. The voyage was tough going, but for her, it was a break, a peaceful time for rest and reflection before she arrived in new york, she says. You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words. From being a well known activist to a global celebrity. People are suffering. People are dying. Ecosystems are collapsing. We are in the beginning of ms extensions and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you you made a really incredible speech in new york, virtually everybody around the world heard your speech. Everybody who heard it i think would remember it. You are not normally an angry person. Why did you, and i am assuming that you did choose to do this, why did you choose to express your anger like that . I thought that if this isnt a once in a lifetime moment, then i dont know what is. So i really need to use this moment to make the most of it so i wont regret that i said too little or held back. So before i choose like im going to let my emotions take control and to really make Something Big out of this because i wont be able to do this again. But, yeah, as you said, im really not an angry person. But it had an incredible effect. Everybody around the world was watching it on their phones, seeing it on the television. It became an emblem. You were a young girl standing before the assembled leaders of the world, and it was incredibly powerful is. Do you think they heard your key message . It sure got people talking, but the message that needs to come out is not the emotional message. I understand that it is also very important to identify and become emotional and that makes people act, but right now what we really need is to tell the science. Everything people remember from that speech was how dare you, you have stolen my childhood. Those are the only sentences people remember, but if you actually read the speech in full, that is not what the speech was about at all. As the most important thing was that we will not allow you to continue to see our future as some kind of game, statistic game, so we demand that you go for the budget which gives the best possible odds. Greta thunberg described how World Leaders lined up to meet her, to shake hands and get that obligatory photo. I think you said Angela Merkel was queueing up and asking for a selfie with you. Did that happen . To be fair, it was not only her, it was many. Those kinds of things happen all the time. People just want to stand next to me and other climate activists. They can post it on social media and it makes them look good. It makes it seem like they care. Do you feel like sometimes you are being used . Yes, definitely people see me sometimes as someone to stand next to and look good, and that is something i really dislike, because that is not the kind of person i want to be. Mr president , good morning. There was one particularly striking moment when President Donald Trump who had said he was not going to attend the meeting arrived at the un. The camera caught Greta Thunbergs expression when she saw him. Tell me what you were thinking at that moment. Ijust thought oh, god, this is so absurd. What have i gotten myself into, why am i standing here . The whole situation, that whole day, this whole year, it was just so absurd. Greta thunberg used her year off to travel around north america with her father. She attended climate rallies and observed her School Strike every friday, travelling in an electric car borrowed from, wait for it, arnold schwarzenegger. It was, she said, a classic road trip. You saw aspect of american lifestyles as you drove through america. You talk about their kind of refineries, the parking lot is full of cars, the gas stations, the people with boats outside their houses, that sort of thing. What did that tell you about the scale of the challenge we face, those aspects of american lifestyles . Well, of course it is notjust american lifestyles. This is of course happening all over the world, but it feels like this really tells the story of how the world looks like today, because this is such a clear example, and it really shows the fact that there are absolutely no signs of any transition whatsoever. It just shows the scale of change that we are facing. To what extent do you think the response of the coronavirus, this huge response we have seen by governments with huge amounts of money and the way politicians are talking about now, you know, needing to do economic stimulus to kick start their economies again, isnt that exactly the kind of change you would want to see . Just the fact we seem to think that the Climate Crisis can be solved by only adopting a green stimulus plan or a Green Recovery plan tells you everything you need to know about the general lack of awareness that exists today. But a green stimulus plan allows us the opportunity to begin to decarbonise our economies, change the infrastructure from polluting coal fired plants to wind turbines. That is the kind of transition they are talking about, that has to be good for the climate if they fulfil their promises, doesnt it . Im not saying it is bad for the climate. We need to do everything we can. All the Green Investments that we can. But we shouldnt talk about it as this is what we need, this will be enough. Because as long as we continue to pretend that the changes required are possible and available within todays society, we cannot solve the Climate Crisis within todays political systems. If companies, governments, states, institutions where states, institutions were to fulfil all the contracts and business agreements and deals that they have committed themselves to, then we dont stand a chance of achieving the paris agreement. In order to avoid a climate catastrophe, we need to make it possible to abandon valid deals and contracts, and that is not possible within todays political system. I do not say as an opinion, that is a fact, so if we going to achieve these goals, that is literally not possible within todays societies. Greta thunberg has been following the greta protests as they have swept across america and the world following the death of george floyd in minneapolis at the end of may. The black lives matter protests. The protests really resonated with her after what she she had seen on her road trip. What is the link between the Climate Emergency and black lives matter . To think in the terms of the way people respond to the issue . Notjust the black lives matter and economic movement, but in all movements where the goal is justice, whether it is climate justice, socialjustice, racialjustice or gender equality, whatever it is, it is always the fight for justice. And it feels like we have passed some kind of social Tipping Point where people are starting to realise that we cannot keep looking away from these things, we cannot keep sweeping these things under the carpet. These injustices. I think people are starting to wake up, we can see an awakening in the last couple of years where people are starting to realise that we cannot ignore this, but also to find their own voice, to sort of understand that they can actually have impact as just one person. To see their role in democracy, i think, we are seeing that more and more. That is very helpful. What would you say to young people who are concerned about black lives matter and other climate . What would be your advice if they want to see change in the world . We have seen previous and older generations fail, frankly, in so many different ways, and that our Current System isnt sustainable. We need to take on the role as adults, it feels like. Because it doesnt seem like the adults today and the older generations are willing or realising that we actually need to make these changes. And honestly, i think more and more young people are starting to realise that this is more and more becoming up to us, because we see everybody else just being silent and failing on this, so we need to step up and we need to do it now. Greta is doing this interview because she has made a deeply personal Radio Programme for swedish radio about her life and her campaigning. She talks about the compulsion shell feels to campaign on the climate issue. My message is and has always been to listen to the science, listen to the scientists. Can i ask you, this is quite a personal question, to what extent do you think your autism has enabled you to be the champion of this issue that you are . I think very much, because simply it makes me different from the rest. It makes me see the world in a different view, and if i do something, if i am committed to something, i go all in. Many people seem to be able to see the Climate Crisis as yes, it is really important, and then just go on with their everyday lives, and i cannot do that. I tried to join organisations and to become active in different movements. I was thinking about things i could do to change things, but honestly that didnt work because ijust hated making small talk and constantly being around so many people, socialising. So then i decided, well, i mightjust do something myself then, and then i decided to School Strike, and that i did myself. That is also one of the reasons to why i am so open about my autism, because many people with autism are seen as like they are weak and that autism is a weakness, but it doesnt have to be. Under the wrong circumstances, it can add a lot of stress and lots of difficulties, but under the right circumstances, it can actually be a gift. It doesnt have to be a burden, it can also be a superpower. This is the defining image of Greta Thunberg, a teenager protesting alone outside the swedish parliament. I have so many people reach out to me and say i have autism as well and thank you for it killing stereotypes, and that makes me very happy. It is really interesting talking to you, because when i met you in plymouth, you are not interested. I sort of said hello and i was trying to be friendly and you are not interested at all, and then when i sat and you were not interested at all, and then when i sat down and spoke to you, you are so engaging and so focused and you have such a strong sense of what you want to say. I actually find it very, very easy to talk to you. Well, thank you, i guess. But, yeah, i am very committed and very, very stubborn. Before i started School Strike and, i told my parents and i told some others, and no one thought i was actually going to do it, but i did it and then i was just on a mission and i havent stopped since then. I know what i want, i know what i want to do and i know what i need to do, so, yeah, thats just what im doing. You are like a Truly International figure. You are kind of like an emblem for this challenge. Yet it doesnt seem, you dont seem to bear it as a heavy burden. Do you think that is again linked into your autism partly, that you can dissociate the fame and the celebrity from your key message and you just say, this is about the message, it is not about me . Lots of attention falls on me, and of course with that comes a big responsibility. But i dont see it as a burden. Because i know that if i were to decide today that i dont want to do this again, i could just quit. I mean, iam in this because i want to, and that is not because i think it is fun. That is not because i enjoy the attention. It is because i want to make a difference, and it makes me happy to know that i can make a difference. Honestly, ifeel i dont like this attention. To the contrary, actually. If i were to choose, i would just be like everyone else and continue studying, because that is what i enjoy doing the most. But since this is such an extraordinary situation, we have to do things that we might not always find very comfortable. Just before the coronavirus pandemic struck, greta spoke at davos, the meeting of global and political leaders high in the swiss alps. Our house is still on fire. Youre in action is fuelling the flames by the hour. Youre inaction is fuelling the flames by the hour. And we are telling you to act as if you loved your children above all else. Thank you. Isnt there a danger that people would listen to you and say, well, all hope is lost, i may as well continue my lifestyle, because there is nothing i can do to make the kind of changes on the kind of scale that Greta Thunberg says is necessary . There is no point where everything is beyond saving, because there are degrees of how bad it can get. No matter where we are, no matter how dark the situation must look like, it may look like, we must never allow ourselves to give up, because we can always prevent it from getting worse. That is what we need to be doing. And the situation, it is not dark. There is hope. We can change, and these changes do not have to be a bad thing. In a sense, doesnt coronavirus provide us with hope about the ability of people to change, because so many people around the world have changed their lifestyles, they have stopped flying, they are driving less. If anything, it will change the way we perceive and treat crises, because it shows that during a crisis, you act with necessary force. And it is also opening up the discussion and the debate around how much we value human life. For example, people say they are ready to sacrifice the economy. They are saying we will do whatever it takes because we cannot put a price on a human life. If you use that logic for the climate, for instance, then that opens up many possibilities to that argument and it changes the discussion and the debate. Two more questions for you, one of which is about the way that you get attacked on social media. It is an extraordinary position for a young swedish child to find themselves being ridiculed by the president of the united states. How do you deal with that . People dont want to hear me talk about this, and people wont be able to handle this, so they are going to try and silence me and some people know no limits, so unfortunately that is something you have to accept. I am not scared about my personal safety, because i know that these people hide behind computer screens, and honestly it is a bit fun to see these people become so upset and become so freaked outjust because a child is speaking and telling the truth. But the kind of threats you have had have been quite extraordinary. You have had death threats, not just for you but your family. That must be hard to handle. It is hard when your family and especially my little sister gets targeted with these kinds of things, that is very hard. It doesnt affect me when people, like, attacked me, but when they go after my family or friends, that is another thing. When you receive those kinds of hate and threats and mockery and conspiracy theories, whatever it is, that is also a sign that you are making a difference and that people are actually trying to silence you for a reason, and that reason is because you are too loud. And if you are allowed, that means you are making a difference, you are having an impact. In a few weeks time, the 17 year old climate activist will be back at school. She says it will not stop her campaigning on the climate, although she recognises keeping up her activism will be difficult. I am really hoping to be able to study, because i love studying. And also of course at the same time, do whatever i can, continue activism, but, yeah, it wont be possible within the nearest future to travel anywhere. Yes, you just have to take it day by day, week by week, see how the world develops, how the situation develops, and what you can do during those circumstances. You have to adapt. Campaigners like Greta Thunberg see the coming year as crucial for Global Action on climate in the wake of coronavirus the Coronavirus Crisis. Will the recovery plans many nations are proposing make serious efforts to decarbonise their economies . How ambitious will the delayed Un Climate Conference be . These are issues Greta Thunberg wants to influence, but of course now she will be juggling her commitment to the climate with her schoolwork. Well, this changeable weather is expected to continue for a little while. Certainly what you had on sunday is what you may well get on monday. This rash, shower a theme is doubly going to last at least until saturday fresh, shower a theme. Heres the low pressure thats been over us heres the low pressure thats been over us for quite some time now. Its here to stay into monday. Its very slow moving, so that means it moving at a glacial pace in an easterly direction. With that low pressure, you can see the heavy rain at the same place, parts of northern ireland, south weather in scotland through early monday into the lake district, lancaster and northern wells. Northern wales. Eventually tomorrow afternoon, it looks as though that heavier rain will push out into the north sea, but we will still have showers around across rutland and northern england. Possibly thundering one. Scotland. Gust 14 miles an hours or more, near gale force. Temperature is around i6 i9dc. Its going to feel chilly. Heres tuesdays weather map. Jet stream here pushing another weather front in our direction. One low pressure moves away, the next weatherfront direction. One low pressure moves away, the next weather front comes in. The thinking is probably a fair bit of cloud and the chance of some rain on tuesday. Tuesday afternoon, showers to break out across scotland and northern england. Again, temperatures mostly in the teens. We certainly are not going to be breaking any records of the week ahead. If anything, breaking any records of the week ahead. Ifanything, it breaking any records of the week ahead. If anything, it will be below the average for the time of year. Wednesday, some wet weather early in the morning across the south, then showers in the afternoon across much of the country. Could be some downpours and thunderstorms. Temperatures might nudge up a little bit, given some sunshine. Up to around 20 celsius. Heres a summary. You can see mostly in the teens, those temperatures. Mix weather, some showers on the cards. Dry weather is probably coming our way on monday. And around the world. The polls have closed in polands president ial election