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Now on bbc news, its time for a special programme. Global questions the taiwan, china conflict. Hello, welcome to global questions with me, zeinab badawi, from Liberty Square in taipei, the capital city of taiwan. The main island of taiwan lies about 160 kilometres across the waters from china. In the past few months, china has stepped up its military exercises, and fired missiles over taiwan, in growing tensions with the government here. The chinese president , xijinping, has reiterated the claim that taiwan belongs to china, and he says he does not rule out the use of force to take it over. Meanwhile, the United States, which supports taiwan, has hardened its position with President Biden saying he would send american troops to defend it. So, if china did invade taiwan, it would be a conflict with huge global dimensions, one that involves the two superpowers, the United States and china. That is global questions, taiwan, a flashpoint with china and the world . Applause welcome to the taipei new Horizon Building. This is a lively and buzzing Cultural Centre in the heart of the city. I have a panel of top voices from across the region who are going to be answering questions from our audience here in taiwan. First of all, lets bring you this Brief Overview of the history of what is going on here in taiwan. Today, taiwan is both a powerhouse for the Global Economy and the focus for the Global Economy and the focus for an increasingly intense adversarial rivalry between china and the United States. He reviews the armed forces and the United States. He reviews the armed forces of and the United States. He reviews the Armed Forces Of China and the United States. He reviews the Armed Forces Of China from i and the United States. He reviewsl the Armed Forces Of China from his island the Armed Forces Of China from his island stronghold. The Armed Forces Of China from his island stronghold. You the Armed Forces Of China from his island stronghold. You can the Armed Forces Of China from his island stronghold. You can act the Armed Forces Of China from his island stronghold. You can act ever since island stronghold. You can act ever since the island stronghold. You can act ever since the end island stronghold. You can act ever since the end of island stronghold. You can act ever since the end of the island stronghold. You can act ever since the end of the civil island stronghold. You can act ever since the end of the civil war island stronghold. You can act ever since the end of The Civil War In since the end of The Civil War In 1949. Since the end of The Civil War In 1949,. ,. , � , since the end of The Civil War In 1949,. ,. , � ,. , 1949, when. Taiwans status has been fiercely 1949, when. Taiwans status has been fiercely contested. 1949, when. Taiwans status has been fiercely contested. Reign been fiercely contested. Reign welcome to free china. Free china, what a difference a word makes. Taiwan has been isolated. To the communists, it is a province of china that can and will be restored to beijings. To its inhabitants, it is an outpost of democracy, suggesting an Alternative Future for china as a whole. To the United States, taiwan has been a useful ally, first as part of an anti communist front in the cold war, and now as our partner in spain being chinas emerging status as a superpower rival. Despite its economic and technological process the status quo in taiwan is under pressure. It was thought it would reunite peacefully with the mainland, but now you have china saying there are storm clouds on the horizon, the president not ruling out the use of force to unify taiwan, you have many of the people here saying they want independence, a full and long term separation from the mainland, and you have the us Putting Pressure on this country to withhold high tech from china. Taiwan has become a vital player in the semiconductor sector, producing many of the worlds microchips. The prospect of serious disruption to this business, whether through war or blockade, could trigger Global Economic disaster. The us is now asking taiwan not to share some of its advanced technology with china. Add to that american warnings that the peoples republic is exhilarating preparations for invasion, and it is clear that the piece of the wider world could now be at stake. Let piece of the wider world could now be at stake piece of the wider world could now be at stake. ,. I. , be at stake. Let me introduce you to my wonderful be at stake. Let me introduce you to my wonderful panel. Be at stake. Let me introduce you to my wonderful panel. This be at stake. Let me introduce you to my wonderful panel. This is be at stake. Let me introduce you to my wonderful panel. This is a be at stake. Let me introduce you to l my wonderful panel. This is a member of the Legislative Assembly and director of International Affairs for taiwans ruling party, the dpp. He is also a member of the Diplomatic Committee that oversees Foreign Policy in taiwan. This is the International Affairs director of the opposition Chinese Nationalist party, the kmt, and is the kmt� s representative to the United States. William stanton was a us diplomat for nearly 35 years, and is one of americas top experts on taiwan. He is now a professor at a university here in taiwan. This is a chinese dissident in exile in taiwan, and is also part of the human rights commission. This woman was born in taipei, herfamily moved from mainland china, and she is currently senior china analyst at the Conflict Resolution think tank the Conflict Resolution think tank the icg. Terrific to have you all with us. That is our panel, please give them a warm round of applause. Applause. You, too, can join applause. You, too, canjoin the conversation. This is ourfirst you, too, canjoin the conversation. This is our first question. You, too, canjoin the conversation. This is ourfirst question. Charles, what is your question . This is our first question. Charles, what is your question . This is our first question. Charles, what is your question . What you make ofthe what is your question . What you make of the fact that what is your question . What you make of the fact that while what is your question . What you make of the fact that while taiwan what is your question . What you make of the fact that while taiwan is of the fact that while taiwan is likely to be a flashpoint for china and the west, the media and the public in taiwan are rather indifferent to the threat of the situation . Bike since you are from the ruling party, you can kick off. I would not use the term indifferent, i would i would not use the term indifferent, iwould not i would not use the term indifferent, i would not say people are indifferent. Taiwan has been living under threat for decades, but is a Difficult Balancing Act for the government in taiwan. 0n the one hand, we need to raise Peoples Awareness and preparedness for Military Conflict in the region, but in the other hand we do not want to scare people, because that is what china wants. Scare people, because that is what china wante china wants. You are from the opposition china wants. You are from the opposition. When china wants. You are from the opposition. When the china wants. You are from the opposition. When the outside | china wants. You are from the opposition. When the outside world had raised the opposition. When the outside world had raised the concern opposition. When the outside world had raised the concern of opposition. When the outside world had raised the concern of the had raised the concern of the chinese had raised the concern of the Chinese Military threat for the polls Chinese Military threat for the polls in Chinese Military threat for the polls in taiwan show that most of the people in taiwan are not considering the necessary vigilance is important. fire considering the necessary vigilance is important is important. Are you suggesting the are is important. Are you suggesting they are being is important. Are you suggesting they are being too is important. Are you suggesting they are being too complacent . | is important. Are you suggesting| they are being too complacent . I think people are aware of the situation, we need that kind of bowler situation, we need that kind of Popular Support in order to raise the awareness and also increase the defence the awareness and also increase the defence budget. The awareness and also increase the defence budget. Awareness of what . Awareness of defence budget. Awareness of what . Awareness of the defence budget. Awareness of what . Awareness of the possible defence budget. Awareness of what . Awareness of the possible chinese i awareness of the possible Chinese Military awareness of the possible Chinese Military coercion or possible invasion Military Coercion or possible invasion. The external danger posted on taiwan invasion. The external danger posted on taiwan. 50 invasion. The external danger posted on taiwan. , invasion. The external danger posted on taiwan. ,. On taiwan. So you do see that as a ve real on taiwan. So you do see that as a very real threat. On taiwan. So you do see that as a very realthreat. I on taiwan. So you do see that as a very real threat. I think on taiwan. So you do see that as a | very real threat. I think sometimes eole very real threat. I think sometimes pebble have very real threat. I think sometimes people have such very real threat. I think sometimes people have such a very real threat. I think sometimes people have such a good very real threat. I think sometimes people have such a good life very real threat. I think sometimes people have such a good life here, | people have such a good life here, and they people have such a good life here, and they enjoy people have such a good life here, and they enjoy their people have such a good life here, and they enjoy their life people have such a good life here, and they enjoy their life so people have such a good life here, and they enjoy their life so much, i and they enjoy their life so much, that i and they enjoy their life so much, that i think and they enjoy their life so much, that i think they and they enjoy their life so much, that i think they dont and they enjoy their life so much, that i think they dont think and they enjoy their life so much, i that i think they dont think enough about that i think they dont think enough about what that i think they dont think enough about what the that i think they dont think enough about what the potential that i think they dont think enough about what the potential risks that i think they dont think enough about what the potential risks are i about what the potential risks are and threats about what the potential risks are and threats are. About what the potential risks are and threats are. In about what the potential risks are and threats are. In my about what the potential risks are and threats are. In my class, about what the potential risks are and threats are. In my class, i about what the potential risks are and threats are. In my class, i tryj and threats are. In my class, i try to make and threats are. In my class, i try to make nty and threats are. In my class, i try to make my own and threats are. In my class, i try to make my own students and threats are. In my class, i try to make my own students aware i and threats are. In my class, i try. To make my own students aware of what to make my own students aware of what may to make my own students aware of what may be to make my own students aware of what may be coming, to make my own students aware of what may be coming, and to make my own students aware of what may be coming, and for to make my own students aware of |what may be coming, and for that| what may be coming, and for that reason what may be coming, and for that reason i what may be coming, and for that reason i encourage what may be coming, and for that reason i encourage students what may be coming, and for that reason i encourage students to. What may be coming, and for that i reason i encourage students to think more reason i encourage students to think more about reason i encourage students to think more about supporting reason i encourage students to think more about supporting the reason i encourage students to think more about supporting the military. I reason i encourage students to think | more about supporting the military. | more about supporting the military. To some more about supporting the military. To some extent more about supporting the military. To some extent i more about supporting the military. To some extent i think more about supporting the military. To some extent i think the more about supporting the military. I to some extent i think the taiwanese population is accustomed to these threats for better or worse. There is another strain of that that we have not touched upon, which is there is a degree of fatalism, sometimes when you speak to the taiwanese, there is an idea that we are caught up in this Power Struggle between two major powers, and theres not much we can do about it. Theres not much we can do to stand up theres not much we can do to stand up to the Chinese Military, and that i think is a thing that the government is trying to work on to reads consciousness around this, and to tell the taiwanese people that in fact there are things that can be done. That in fact there are things that can be done can be done. You are one of the leaders of can be done. You are one of the leaders of the can be done. You are one of the leaders of the tiananmen can be done. You are one of the | leaders of the Tiananmen Square student protests. You may still be chinas second most wanted person, and you are now a dissident in exile from the community who have had many Human Rights Abuses perpetrated against them. You go round taiwan and talk to people, what is your response to the question . I and talk to people, what is your response to the question . L and talk to people, what is your response to the question . I would not say there response to the question . I would not say there is response to the question . I would not say there is indifference, response to the question . I would not say there is indifference, but i not say there is indifference, but especially not say there is indifference, but especially after russia has invaded ukraine, especially after russia has invaded ukraine, it especially after russia has invaded ukraine, it becomes the centre of the topic, ukraine, it becomes the centre of the topic, and everyone is talking about the topic, and everyone is talking about who the topic, and everyone is talking about who is next, but i sense there is a difference between taiwanese peoples is a difference between taiwanese peoples mind compared with the world peoples mind compared with the world media. The world media seems to like world media. The world media seems to like to world media. The world media seems to like to talk about a possible invasion to like to talk about a possible invasion much more than the taiwanese people who have been living taiwanese people who have been living under this constant threat for more living under this constant threat for more than seven decades. People, of course, for more than seven decades. People, of course, are for more than seven decades. People, of course, are talking. Indifferent would of course, are talking. Indifferent would be of course, are talking. Indifferent would be a of course, are talking. Indifferent would be a wrong word to describe taiwanese would be a wrong word to describe taiwanese peoples mentality, but i think we taiwanese peoples mentality, but i think we are different from the world, think we are different from the world, especially world media. Lets face it. World, especially world media. Lets face it. It world, especially world media. Lets face it. It is world, especially world media. Lets face it, it is an interesting topic to talk face it, it is an interesting topic to talk about. fire face it, it is an interesting topic to talk about. To talk about. Are you saying i shouldnt to talk about. Are you saying i shouldnt be to talk about. Are you saying i shouldnt be here . Shouldnt be here . Laughter are you saying we are making too much of it . Let are you saying we are making too much of it . Are you saying we are making too much of it . ,. ~ much of it . Let me be clear, i think there is a clear much of it . Let me be clear, i think there is a clear threat much of it . Let me be clear, i think there is a clear threat that much of it . Let me be clear, i think there is a clear threat that the there is a clear threat that the chinese there is a clear threat that the Chinese Communist party is imposing to taiwan, Chinese Communist party is imposing to taiwan, and there are hundreds or thousands to taiwan, and there are hundreds or thousands of to taiwan, and there are hundreds or thousands of warheads pointing to Taiwan Thousands of warheads pointing to taiwan to thousands of warheads pointing to taiwan to support that threat. Knowing taiwan to support that threat. Knowing the Chinese Communist party, i also knowing the Chinese Communist party, i also know knowing the Chinese Communist party, i also know they want to exaggerate that threat as much as possible, and then the that threat as much as possible, and then the world media could act as an accomplice then the world media could act as an accomplice on that. So then the world media could act as an accomplice on that. Accomplice on that. So we are no accomplices . Accomplice on that. So we are no accomplices . You accomplice on that. So we are no accomplices . You could accomplice on that. So we are no accomplices . You could be. Accomplice on that. So we are no accomplices . You could be. If. Accomplice on that. So we are no| accomplices . You could be. If you hel the accomplices . You could be. If you help the chinese accomplices . You could be. If you help the Chinese Communist accomplices . You could be. If youj help the Chinese Communist party exaggerate their threat. At the end, the threat exaggerate their threat. At the end, the threat only works when it became a real the threat only works when it became a real threat the threat only works when it became a real threat to the taiwanese people. A real threat to the taiwanese people, and the taiwanese people, yesm people, and the taiwanese people, es. �. ,. ,. , people, and the taiwanese people, es. ,. ,. , yes. Im going to have to take issue with yes. Im going to have to take issue with you yes. Im going to have to take issue with you here, yes. Im going to have to take issue with you here, it yes. Im going to have to take issue with you here, it is yes. Im going to have to take issue with you here, it is not. Yes. Im going to have to take | issue with you here, it is not the media. It is always easy to say that we are exaggerating and helping iran enforce his threat, but you have the chief of the National Security bureau here in taiwan, who has been making very interesting comments, and he is seeing a Military Invasion of taiwan could take place, and the taiwans security is always on the lookout for any signs of a possible invasion. We are not making this up and exaggerating it. Im invasion. We are not making this up and exaggerating it. And exaggerating it. Im not saying oure and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making it and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making it up, and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making it up, i and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making it up, i am and exaggerating it. Im not saying youre making it up, i am only youre making it up, iam only saying youre making it up, iam only saying the youre making it up, iam only saying the Chinese Communist party, whom saying the Chinese Communist party, whom i saying the Chinese Communist party, whom i happen to know a little better whom i happen to know a little better than most common folk because of my background, they are not nationalists. Using any words like communism, socialism, nationalism, patriotism. Communism, socialism, nationalism, patriotism, to describe this regime, the communist party regime, it is giving the communist party regime, it is giving them too much credit. They want giving them too much credit. They want their giving them too much credit. They want their empty threats, which of course want their empty threats, which of course are want their empty threats, which of course are not completely empty, but they want course are not completely empty, but they want the threat to be amplified as much they want the threat to be amplified as much as they want the threat to be amplified as much as possible. All im saying is, dont as much as possible. All im saying is, dont help them. Is, dont help them. What is your view on your is, dont help them. What is your view on your own is, dont help them. What is your view on your own question . Is, dont help them. What is your view on your own question . I is, dont help them. What is your i view on your own question . I asked the question view on your own question . I asked the question because view on your own question . I asked the question because i view on your own question . I asked the question because i think view on your own question . I asked the question because i think it view on your own question . I asked the question because i think it is i view on your own question . I asked the question because i think it is a l the question because i think it is a fact the question because i think it is a fact. Taiwanese the question because i think it is a fact. Taiwanese people the question because i think it is a fact. Taiwanese people are fact. Taiwanese people are indifferent fact. Taiwanese people are indifferent compared fact. Taiwanese people are indifferent compared to. Fact. Taiwanese people are| indifferent compared to the fact. Taiwanese people are indifferent compared to the Western Media indifferent compared to the Western Media and indifferent compared to the Western Media and western indifferent compared to the Western Media and western people. Indifferent compared to the Western Media and western people. [ indifferent compared to the Western Media and western people. Infant. Indifferent compared to the Western Media and western people. I want to net the media and western people. I want to get the next media and western people. I want to get the next question. Media and western people. I want to get the next question. Why media and western people. I want to get the next question. Why and media and western people. I want to get the next question. Why and how| get the next question. Why and how would the russian get the next question. Why and how would the russian invasion get the next question. Why and how would the russian invasion of would the russian invasion of ukraine would the russian invasion of ukraine encourage would the russian invasion of ukraine encourage china would the russian invasion of ukraine encourage china to. Would the russian invasion of ukraine encourage china to invade taiwan . Ukraine encourage china to invade taiwan . In ukraine encourage china to invade taiwan . ,. , ukraine encourage china to invade taiwan . ,. ,. Taiwan . In one way, the russian decision to taiwan . In one way, the russian decision to go taiwan . In one way, the russian decision to go into taiwan . In one way, the russian decision to go into ukraine taiwan . In one way, the russian| decision to go into ukraine might encourage china to do the same when they see that the west, nato, the United States, are only providing weapon systems, but not committing troops. Also, we have to be very alert, china can learn the lesson from the russian actions. China would be more cautious when they commit troops, they will try hard not to make the same mistakes. For instance, operationally, technically, or given especially the ukraine remaining having power supply. If china were to do that to taiwan, they would shut down taiwans electric power, and disable our wide service, our wi fi service. Our web service. They encouraged them as well, and discourage them, both sit together. I them as well, and discourage them, both sit together. Both sit together. I think we should not be making both sit together. I think we should not be making suggestions both sit together. I think we should not be making suggestions about i both sit together. I think we should i not be making suggestions about what the chinese might do to shut down taiwan the chinese might do to shut down taiwan. That would be my biggest comment~ taiwan. That would be my biggest comment. I think there are a lot of things comment. I think there are a lot of things that comment. I think there are a lot of things that taiwan can do, that are positive things that taiwan can do, that are positive to things that taiwan can do, that are positive to help prepare for the attack positive to help prepare for the attack. ,. ,. , attack. The question was with the russian example attack. The question was with the russian example serve attack. The question was with the russian example serve as attack. The question was with the russian example serve as a attack. The question was with the | russian example serve as a model attack. The question was with the. Russian example serve as a model in any shape orform russian example serve as a model in any shape or form for president xi jinping . I any shape or form for president xi jininu . P, any shape or form for president xi jinina . , any shape or form for president xi jinuin . ,. Jinping . I have always thought that president xi jinping . I have always thought that president xi Jinping Jinping . I have always thought that president xi jinping would jinping . I have always thought that president xi jinping would not jinping . I have always thought that president xi jinping would not want president xi jinping would not want to do president xi jinping would not want to do anything that is an imitation of what to do anything that is an imitation of what Vladimir Putin has done, because of what Vladimir Putin has done, because he would want to of what Vladimir Putin has done, because he would want to show of what Vladimir Putin has done, because he would want to show that it is his because he would want to show that it is his own because he would want to show that it is his own development. I think he would it is his own development. I think he would want to do it in a different he would want to do it in a different way, in his own time, and i different way, in his own time, and i dont different way, in his own time, and idont think different way, in his own time, and i dont think he would follow the idont think he would follow the vladimir i dont think he would follow the Vladimir Putin model,. The i dont think he would follow the Vladimir Putin model,. The war in ukraine is ongoing. Vladimir putin model,. The war in ukraine is ongoing. It Vladimir Putin model,. The war in ukraine is ongoing. It depends Vladimir Putin model,. The war in ukraine is ongoing. It depends on l ukraine is ongoing. It depends on the final result. If the war is a disaster for russia, then the final result. If the war is a disasterfor russia, then probably xijinping will think it is disasterfor russia, then probably xi jinping will think it is very dangerous to initiate a war against taiwan. I dangerous to initiate a war against taiwan. ~ g , dangerous to initiate a war against taiwan. ~. ,. Taiwan. I think xi jinping will draw a aood taiwan. I think xi jinping will draw a good lesson taiwan. I think xi jinping will draw a good lesson of taiwan. I think xi jinping will draw a good lesson of putins taiwan. I think xi jinping will draw a good lesson of putins invasion, | a good lesson of putins invasion, that it a good lesson of putins invasion, that it will a good lesson of putins invasion, that it will not be that easy. That is the that it will not be that easy. That is the most that it will not be that easy. That is the most important lesson that they will is the most important lesson that they will draw. Taiwan is an island. If they will draw. Taiwan is an island. If the they will draw. Taiwan is an island. If the ccp they will draw. Taiwan is an island. If the Ccp Launch A War Against taiwan, if the Ccp Launch A War Against taiwan, a if the Ccp Launch A War Against taiwan, a democracy where the president taiwan, a democracy where the president cannotjust taiwan, a democracy where the president cannot just say, taiwan, a democracy where the president cannotjust say, ok, i surrender. President cannotjust say, ok, i surrender, they cannot. It has to be approved surrender, they cannot. It has to be approved by surrender, they cannot. It has to be approved by parliament and the that alone, approved by parliament and the that alone, making the success of the invasion alone, making the success of the invasion of alone, making the success of the invasion of taiwan, it has to be total invasion of taiwan, it has to be total occupation. Will invasion of taiwan, it has to be total occupation. Invasion of taiwan, it has to be total occupation. Will that be that hard . 1. 4 billion total occupation. Will that be that hard . 1. 4 billion chinese. Total occupation. Will that be that hard . 1. 4 billion chinese. You l hard . 1. 4 billion chinese. You have 23. 5 million taiwanese. It is 0. 4 of the land area of china, they have an army of about 2 million, the army about 170,000, it will be a walkover. We army about 170,000, it will be a walkover. ~. , , army about 170,000, it will be a walkover. , ,. , walkover. We were told because of the Russia Ukraine walkover. We were told because of the Russia Ukraine warfare walkover. We were told because of the Russia Ukraine warfare that. Walkover. We were told because of the Russia Ukraine warfare that we have learned a lot about Military Warfare have learned a lot about Military Warfare. To occupy taiwan completely, to force this country, this democracy to surrender, they need this democracy to surrender, they need about this democracy to surrender, they need about 2 million boots on the ground need about 2 million boots on the ground. That is how you need to force ground. That is how you need to force 23 ground. That is how you need to force 23 Million People to surrender. It is almost impossible to imagine surrender. It is almost impossible to imagine 500,000 of them come across to imagine 500,000 of them come across i to imagine 500,000 of them come across. I think xi jinping learned that lesson from the failure of the russian that lesson from the failure of the russian invasion. | that lesson from the failure of the russian invasion. Russian invasion. I think on the whole, russian invasion. I think on the whole. The russian invasion. I think on the whole, the russian russian invasion. I think on the whole, the russian invasion russian invasion. I think on the whole, the russian invasion of| whole, the russian invasion of ukraine and its failure is on the home make beige and cautious about the invasion of taiwan, for three reasons, one being the complexity of an amphibious invasion of taiwan is much higher than a Land Invasion which russia has carried out. They have to cross a 180 kilometre body of water, and in that passage there will be many moments where they are very vulnerable to taiwans missile systems. Economically, we have seen that the west has gone after russia and a comprehensive way. We have not seen the outcome of the war, i agree with that, they are yet to be seen, but china has taken note of the way that west has sanctioned russia, and thirdly, the Strategic Environment has changed. Countries are much more worried and aware of the potential of a major war, and worried and aware of the potential ofa majorwar, and i worried and aware of the potential of a major war, and i think that is changing calculations in regional governments. It changing calculations in regional governments changing calculations in regional covernments. ,. Governments. It all seems that you think it would governments. It all seems that you think it would discourage governments. It all seems that you think it would discourage china think it would discourage china rather than encourage it to invade taiwan. Lets go to our next question. Taiwan. Lets go to our next question taiwan. Lets go to our next question. Taiwan. Lets go to our next cuestion. G ,. ,. , question. My question is, do you think xi jinping question. My question is, do you think xi jinping would question. My question is, do you think xi jinping would be question. My question is, do you think xi jinping would be afraid i question. My question is, do you | think xi jinping would be afraid of think xi jinping would be afraid of a backlash think xi jinping would be afraid of a backlash from think xi jinping would be afraid of a backlash from his think xi jinping would be afraid of a backlash from his own think xi jinping would be afraid of a backlash from his own citizens. Think xi jinping would be afraid of| a backlash from his own citizens if he invades a backlash from his own citizens if he invades taiwan . A backlash from his own citizens if he invades taiwan . [ a backlash from his own citizens if he invades taiwan . He invades taiwan . I think for the Chinese Communist he invades taiwan . I think for the Chinese Communist party, he invades taiwan . I think for the Chinese Communist party, their. He invades taiwan . I think for the i Chinese Communist party, their hold on power is their top priority, period. To the extent they have tied unification of taiwan to chinas rise, and that in turn is tied to the partys legitimacy domestically. They have made it a very important political objective for them, but at the same time the dilemma for them is that achieving this objective has become much harder. The risks of an invasion that goes south, or take some much longer than they want it to, a protracted war in which a lot of chinese Sons And Daughters lives are being taken, and a lot of these are being taken, and a lot of these are single children and families, of course, is asking a huge sacrifice of the chinese. 50 course, is asking a huge sacrifice of the chinese. Course, is asking a huge sacrifice of the chinese. So there could be a backlash. Backlash of the chinese. So there could be a backlash. Backlash from of the chinese. So there could be a backlash. Backlash from their of the chinese. So there could be a backlash. Backlash from their own | backlash. Backlash from their own citizens . It backlash. Backlash from their own citizens . ,. ~. , citizens . It depends what kind of war we are citizens . It depends what kind of war we are having. Citizens . It depends what kind of war we are having. If citizens . It depends what kind of war we are having. If there citizens . It depends what kind of war we are having. If there is citizens . It depends what kind of war we are having. If there is a l citizens . It depends what kind of. War we are having. If there is a war of attrition, war we are having. If there is a war of attrition, there could be a lot of attrition, there could be a lot of things of attrition, there could be a lot of things that happen within china. Ithink of things that happen within china. I think what leaders in beijing have considered is their own survival and the regimes survival. They have to enforce the regimes survival. They have to enforce themselves to make that decision, enforce themselves to make that decision, and then they open a pandoras decision, and then they open a pandoras box. That is the decision they face pandoras box. That is the decision they face if pandoras box. That is the decision they face if they start a war. And also of the they face if they start a war. And also of the military they face if they start a war. Sixth. Also of the Military Operation and invasion against taiwan, if that would hurt, another goal of the rejuvenation of the chinese nation. Probably that will keep them thinking more than twice about a Military Operation. Benjaminjackson, benjamin jackson, your question. What do benjaminjackson, your question. What do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese what do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese who what do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese who feel what do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese who feel they what do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese who feel they share what do the Panel Members say to the taiwanese who feel they share an taiwanese who feel they share an identity taiwanese who feel they share an identity with taiwanese who feel they share an identity with the taiwanese who feel they share an identity with the mainland taiwanese who feel they share an identity with the mainland and. Taiwanese who feel they share an| identity with the mainland and the republic identity with the mainland and the republic of identity with the mainland and the republic of china identity with the mainland and the republic of china and identity with the mainland and the republic of china and would identity with the mainland and the republic of china and would like i republic of china and would like closer republic of china and would like closer ties . Republic of china and would like closer ties . Closer ties . Lets start on that because youve closer ties . Lets start on that because youve lived closer ties . Lets start on that because youve lived on closer ties . Lets start on that because youve lived on both i closer ties . Lets start on that because youve lived on both sides, as a chinese Uigur Dissident and really embedded into taiwanese society. I really embedded into taiwanese socie. ,. Really embedded into taiwanese socie. ,. , society. I notice the person who addressed society. I notice the person who addressed this society. I notice the person who addressed this question, society. I notice the person who addressed this question, benjamin, is an expat here and it is a sensitive and interesting part for the expat to play a lot of attention on taiwans division between, like blue and Green Division or taiwanese versus chinese division. He mentioned the republic of china. The term republic of china for a lot of local taiwanese as meant a facade of oppression. But then its no longer the case because in many years of democracy, the 33 decades after lifting martial law, more than a billion ballots have been cast in the republic of china. Although it isnt the most favoured domain, it isnt the most favoured domain, it is no longer an oppressive. It is a democratic body. It is is no longer an oppressive. It is a democratic body. A democratic body. It is quite confusing. A democratic body. It is quite confusing, the a democratic body. It is quite confusing, the peoples a democratic body. It is quite confusing, the peoples republic of china, mao tse tungs minister and Chang Kai Shek fought, the republic of china, the official name of taiwan. If of china, the official name of taiwan. P, p, of china, the official name of taiwan. ,. , taiwan. If taiwan changed its name because its taiwan. If taiwan changed its name because its no taiwan. If taiwan changed its name because its no longer taiwan. If taiwan changed its name because its no longer in taiwan. If taiwan changed its name| because its no longer in accordance with the reality we should change our name to the republic of taiwan but that would be changing the status quo. So the us is helping the people to keep taiwans name as the republic of china. That is the status quo. It was designed in the 70s. Taiwan has moved on into a new democracy. We still hold the passport but we call it the republic of china taiwan and were 0k passport but we call it the republic of china taiwan and were ok with that. ,. ,. , of china taiwan and were ok with that. ,. , i. ,. , that. Let me come to you because there are two that. Let me come to you because there are two posted that. Let me come to you because there are two posted a that. Let me come to you because there are two posted a question, | that. Let me come to you because i there are two posted a question, the taiwanese who still feel identity with the mainland and most polls say about 10 of taiwanese feel. Even eskimo but the higher end, 10 feeling taiwanese and chinese but there is a move within the dpp, some members say they dont want to be called that, they want to be the republic of taiwan. Why not call it that . �. , republic of taiwan. Why not call it that . � , ~. , republic of taiwan. Why not call it that . � ,. , that . Because we know the possible risk of changing that . Because we know the possible risk of changing the that . Because we know the possible risk of changing the title that . Because we know the possible risk of changing the title because risk of changing the title because china risk of changing the title because china has risk of changing the title because china has claimed they would resort to the china has claimed they would resort to the use china has claimed they would resort to the use of force if taiwan does this to the use of force if taiwan does this so to the use of force if taiwan does this so we to the use of force if taiwan does this. So we take a cautious approach in dealing this. So we take a cautious approach in dealing with that particularly sensitive in dealing with that particularly sensitive issue. On the other hand, the reason sensitive issue. On the other hand, the reason why people identify themselves as chinese, we dont confuse themselves as chinese, we dont confuse two concepts, state and nation confuse two concepts, state and nation. Some people believe they belong nation. Some people believe they belong to nation. Some people believe they belong to a single chinese nation but they belong to a single chinese nation but they believe taiwan should be a separate but they believe taiwan should be a separate state. One country and two governments. Theres a growing chinese governments. Theres a growing chinese side because of democratisation in taiwan because people democratisation in taiwan because people have the right to their future people have the right to their future and to choose government, so the that future and to choose government, so the that democratisation created that the that democratisation created that. ,. , the that democratisation created that. ,. ,. , that. One party has traditionally been seen that. One party has traditionally been seen as that. One party has traditionally been seen as perhaps that. One party has traditionally been seen as perhaps more been seen as perhaps more conciliatory towards china down the ruling dpp. What would you say to the taiwanese who still feel that they share an identity . Lute the taiwanese who still feel that they share an identity . The taiwanese who still feel that they share an identity . We all have very strong they share an identity . We all have very Strong Taiwan they share an identity . We all have very Strong Taiwan identity. They share an identity . We all have very Strong Taiwan identity. The very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue of very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue of argument very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue of argument is very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue of argument is a very Strong Taiwan identity. The issue of argument is a political. Issue of argument is a political difference issue of argument is a political difference across issue of argument is a political difference across the issue of argument is a political difference across the taiwan i issue of argument is a political difference across the taiwan strait. So, difference across the taiwan strait. So. When difference across the taiwan strait. So. When we difference across the taiwan strait. So, when we talk difference across the taiwan strait. So, when we talk about difference across the taiwan strait. So, when we talk about taiwan so, when we talk about taiwan identity. So, when we talk about taiwan identity. Thats so, when we talk about taiwan identity, thats for so, when we talk about taiwan identity, thats for sure, so, when we talk about taiwan identity, thats for sure, but i so, when we talk about taiwan| identity, thats for sure, but on the other identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand we identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand we do identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand we do not identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand we do not give. Identity, thats for sure, but on the other hand we do not give away the other hand we do not give away the cultural the other hand we do not give away the cultural linkage, the other hand we do not give away the cultural linkage, historical the cultural linkage, Historical Heritage the cultural linkage, Historical Heritage and the cultural linkage, Historical Heritage and the the cultural linkage, Historical Heritage and The Business Heritage and the business relationship. Heritage and the business relationship. Currently heritage and the business relationship. Currently we heritage and the business relationship. Currently we still have relationship. Currently we still have more relationship. Currently we still have more than relationship. Currently we still have more than 1 relationship. Currently we still have more than1 million relationship. Currently we still have more than1 million taiwanese citizens have more than1 million taiwanese citizens living have more than1 million taiwanese citizens living on have more than1 million taiwanese citizens living on the have more than1 million taiwanese citizens living on the mainland, citizens living on the mainland, doing citizens living on the mainland, doing business, citizens living on the mainland, doing business, going citizens living on the mainland, doing business, going to citizens living on the mainland, i doing business, going to school. Citizens living on the mainland, doing business, going to school. So the business doing business, going to school. So the Business Community doing business, going to school. So the Business Community have doing business, going to school. So the Business Community have their| the Business Community have their concerns, the Business Community have their concerns, the the Business Community have their concerns, the peoples the Business Community have their concerns, the peoples linkage,. The Business Community have their concerns, the peoples linkage, ii concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think we concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think we should concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think we should cut concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think we should cut it concerns, the peoples linkage, i dont think we should cut it off. I dont think we should cut it off. Thats dont think we should cut it off. Thats our dont think we should cut it off. Thats our position. Dont think we should cut it off. Thats our position. The dont think we should cut it off. | thats our position. The number dont think we should cut it off. Thats our position. The number one issue thats our position. The number one issue is thats our position. The number one issue is to thats our position. The number one issue is to protect thats our position. The number one issue is to protect the thats our position. The number one issue is to protect the security thats our position. The number one issue is to protect the security of issue is to protect the security of the republic issue is to protect the security of the Republic Of Issue is to protect the security of the republic of china. Issue is to protect the security of the republic of china. Ititfho issue is to protect the security of the republic of china. Issue is to protect the security of the republic of china. Who is saying cut them off . The republic of china. Who is saying cut them off . Are the republic of china. Who is saying cut them off . Are you the republic of china. Who is saying cut them off . Are you saying the republic of china. Who is saying cut them off . Are you saying his cut them off . Are you saying his party are doing that . Im cut them off . Are you saying his party are doing that . Party are doing that . Im not Art Uinu Party are doing that . Im not arguing against party are doing that . Im not arguing against them, party are doing that . Im not arguing against them, im i party are doing that . Im not arguing against them, im saying when arguing against them, im saying whenwe arguing against them, im saying whenwe say arguing against them, im saying when we say china arguing against them, im saying when we say china versus arguing against them, im sayingi when we say china versus taiwan, arguing against them, im saying i when we say china versus taiwan, a strong when we say china versus taiwan, a Strong Taiwan when we say china versus taiwan, a Strong Taiwan identity when we say china versus taiwan, a Strong Taiwan identity doesnt when we say china versus taiwan, a| Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need to Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need to cut Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need to cut off. Strong taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need to cut off. You Strong Taiwan identity doesnt mean that we need to cut off. That we need to cut off. You tell him. That we need to cut off. You tell him korea that we need to cut off. You tell him. Korea and that we need to cut off. You tell him. Korea and japan that we need to cut off. You tell him. Korea and japan have that we need to cut off. You tell him. Korea and japan have thousands of eole him. Korea and japan have thousands of People Living him. Korea and japan have thousands of People Living and him. Korea and japan have thousands of People Living and working him. Korea and japan have thousands of People Living and working in of People Living and working in china, of People Living and working in china, it of People Living and working in china, it doesnt mean that those countries china, it doesnt mean that those countries become a part of china. Right countries become a part of china. Right because a lot of people only see that right because a lot of people only see that through right because a lot of people only see that through political right because a lot of people only see that through political and right because a lot of people only see that through political and an i see that through political and an identity see that through political and an identity issue, see that through political and an identity issue, more see that through political and an identity issue, more the see that through political and an identity issue, more the culturalj identity issue, more the cultural linkage identity issue, more the cultural linkage and identity issue, more the cultural linkage and historical identity issue, more the cultural linkage and Historical Heritage. I identity issue, more the cultural. Linkage and Historical Heritage. We do not linkage and Historical Heritage. We do not need linkage and Historical Heritage. We do not need to linkage and Historical Heritage. We do not need to impose linkage and Historical Heritage. We do not need to impose artificial. I do not need to impose artificial. And r do not need to impose artificial. And r d do not need to impose artificial. And r d dpp do not need to impose artificial. And r d dpp imposing do not need to impose artificial. And r d dpp imposing artificial. And r d dpp imposing artificial distinctions . The and r d dpp imposing artificial distinctions . Distinctions . The narrative is that. Distinctions . The narrative is that He Distinctions . The narrative is that. He being distinctions . The narrative is that. He being Reticent Distinctions . The narrative is l that. He being reticent about criticisinu that. He being reticent about criticising you that. He being reticent about criticising you directly. That. He being reticent about criticising you directly. You that. He being reticent about criticising you directly. You are suggesting that the dpp are not conducting the right policy in your eyes. Conducting the right policy in your e es. �. , conducting the right policy in your ees. �. ,. , eyes. Im not saying that the dpp are cutting eyes. Im not saying that the dpp are cutting off eyes. Im not saying that the dpp are cutting off that eyes. Im not saying that the dpp are cutting off that relationship i eyes. Im not saying that the dpp| are cutting off that relationship or ignoring are cutting off that relationship or ignoring the are cutting off that relationship or ignoring the historical are cutting off that relationship or ignoring the Historical Heritage. I ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i would ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i would say ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i would say that ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i would say that the ignoring the Historical Heritage. But i would say that the cross i but i would say that the cross trading but i would say that the cross Trading Relationship but i would say that the cross Trading Relationship has but i would say that the cross Trading Relationship has been| but i would say that the cross. Trading relationship has been a complex Trading Relationship has been a complex and Trading Relationship has been a complex and difficult Trading Relationship has been a complex and difficult questioni Trading Relationship has been a i complex and difficult question and we should complex and difficult question and we should not complex and difficult question and we should not look complex and difficult question and we should not look at complex and difficult question and we should not look at cross complex and difficult question and we should not look at cross trade i we should not look at Cross Trade Relations we should not look at Cross Trade Relations only we should not look at Cross Trade Relations only through we should not look at Cross Trade Relations only through a we should not look at Cross Trade Relations only through a politicali relations only through a political lens relations only through a political lens. ,. ,. Lens. The communist party made it simle. Lens. The communist party made it simple you lens. The communist party made it simple. You either lens. The communist party made it simple. You either completely simple. You either completely surrender, submit or stay as a democracy so we are the enemy. It is no longer a complex issue. Cross trading relation is no longer a complex issue. Submit or not. Does that differ your political view from the other one . You that differ your political view from the other one . The other one . You are saying his a is the other one . You are saying his party is submitting . The other one . You are saying his party is submitting . This may party is submitting . This may or may not be a debate party is submitting . This may or may not be a debate but lets make party is submitting . This may or may not be a debate but lets make it not be a debate but lets make it clean not be a debate but lets make it clean i not be a debate but lets make it clear. I understand not be a debate but lets make it clear. I understand that not be a debate but lets make it clear. I understand that chinas. Clear. I understand that chinas position. Clear. I understand that chinas position. You clear. I understand that chinas position, you know, clear. I understand that chinas position, you know, when clear. I understand that chinasl position, you know, when china looksm position, you know, when china looksm do position, you know, when china looks. , position, you know, when china looks. ,. Looks. Do you really understand chinas position . Looks. Do you really understand chinas position . They looks. Do you really understand chinas position . They demand i chinas position . They demand surrender. Chinas position . They demand surrender chinas position . They demand surrender. �. ,. ,. Surrender. And we do not agree with that, surrender. And we do not agree with that. Ever. Surrender. And we do not agree with that, ever, right . Surrender. And we do not agree with that, ever, right . In surrender. And we do not agree with that, ever, right . In saying surrender. And we do not agree with that, ever, right . In saying that, that, ever, right . In saying that, we do that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not need that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not need to that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not need to say that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not need to say that that, ever, right . In saying that, we do not need to say that we i that, ever, right . In saying that, l we do not need to say that we are against we do not need to say that we are against all we do not need to say that we are against all these we do not need to say that we are against all these business against all these Business Activities against all these Business Activities and against all these Business Activities and cultural i against all these Business Activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody is activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody is saying activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody is saying lets activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody is saying lets not activities and cultural exchanges. Nobody is saying lets not do i nobody is saying lets not do business with china. To nobody is saying lets not do business with china. To make it clear there business with china. To make it clear there are business with china. To make it clear there are distinctions i business with china. To make it clear there are distinctions in i business with china. To make it i clear there are distinctions in your positions. Your party says the party does not support taiwanese independence but on the other hand nor do you support the One Country Two Systems Concept which hong kong has. Which are neither here nor there, then, really. Is that the point you are making . There, then, really. Is that the point you are making . Yes. Uart su ort point you are making . Yes. Uart support Independence Point you are making . Yes. Uart Support Independence and i point you are making . Yes. Uart Support Independence and you i point you are making . Yes. Uart. Support independence and you arent supporting the one country of two systems. They are not openly opposing it. One country, two systems. Forthat opposing it. One country, two systems. For that i need to clarify. Deng xiaoping raised the concept of one country and two systems in 1981. We opposed one country and two systems from the very beginning. But ou systems from the very beginning. But you still adhere to the 1992 consensus which says there is one china but it is up to the taiwanese to decide that and define that as they wish. You dont denounce that consensus whereas you have. Lute they wish. You dont denounce that consensus whereas you have. We dont rive u our consensus whereas you have. We dont give up our right consensus whereas you have. We dont give up our right to consensus whereas you have. We dont give up our right to interpret consensus whereas you have. We dont give up our right to interpret it give up our right to interpret it how give up our right to interpret it how we give up our right to interpret it how we see give up our right to interpret it how we see what give up our right to interpret it how we see what happened i give up our right to interpret it how we see what happened in| give up our right to interpret it i how we see what happened in 1992. The eventuality how we see what happened in 1992. The eventuality of how we see what happened in 1992. The eventuality of reunification i how we see what happened in 1992. The eventuality of reunification is i the eventuality of reunification is china, the eventuality of reunification is china, the the eventuality of reunification is china, the position is clear, but the difference is how. People should have a the difference is how. People should have a final the difference is how. People should have a final say about their future. Your have a final say about their future. Your position is different. I have a final say about their future. Your position is different. Your position is different. I would sa that your position is different. I would say that youre your position is different. I would say that youre right, your position is different. I would say that youre right, we your position is different. I would say that youre right, we keep i your position is different. I would say that youre right, we keep all| say that youre right, we keep all the options say that youre right, we keep all the options open say that youre right, we keep all the options open except say that youre right, we keep all the options open except your i the options open except your taiwanese the options open except your taiwanese independence. I the options open except your i taiwanese independence. Your president taiwanese independence. Your president says taiwanese independence. Your president says that taiwanese independence. Your president says that taiwan i taiwanese independence. Youri president says that taiwan wants taiwanese independence. Your president says that taiwan wants a free and president says that taiwan wants a free and independent president says that taiwan wants a free and independent government| free and independent Government Width free and independent Government Width and free and independent Government Width and that free and independent Government Width and that taiwan free and independent Government Width and that taiwan and free and independent Government Width and that taiwan and the i width and that taiwan and the peoples width and that taiwan and the peoples republic width and that taiwan and the peoples republic of width and that taiwan and the peoples republic of china i width and that taiwan and the peoples republic of china do| width and that taiwan and the i peoples republic of china do not belong peoples republic of china do not belong to peoples republic of china do not belong to each peoples republic of china do not belong to each other, peoples republic of china do not belong to each other, you peoples republic of china do notj belong to each other, you defend time belong to each other, you defend time and belong to each other, you defend time and is belong to each other, you defend time and is sovereignty belong to each other, you defend time and is sovereignty and belong to each other, you defend time and is sovereignty and thati belong to each other, you defend i time and is sovereignty and that its future time and is sovereignty and that its future should time and is sovereignty and that its future should be time and is sovereignty and that its future should be decided time and is sovereignty and that its future should be decided by time and is sovereignty and that its future should be decided by its time and is sovereignty and that itsj future should be decided by its own people future should be decided by its own people and future should be decided by its own teo tl;. ,. , future should be decided by its own teolr. ,. , � future should be decided by its own teals. ,� , people and you dont accept the 1992. People and you dont accept the 1992 the people and you dont accept the 1992. The choice people and you dont accept the 1992. The choice is people and you dont accept the 1992. The choice is between i people and you dont accept the i 1992. The choice is between two different ways 1992. The choice is between two different ways of 1992. The choice is between two different ways of life, 1992. The choice is between two different ways of life, thats i 1992. The choice is between two different ways of life, thats it. Different ways of life, thats it. Its also different ways of life, thats it. Its also our position, which is the same its also our position, which is the same as its also our position, which is the same as the its also our position, which is the same as the dpp, its also our position, which is the same as the dpp, that its also our position, which is the same as the dpp, that the its also our position, which is the same as the dpp, that the futurel its also our position, which is the l same as the dpp, that the future of taiwan same as the dpp, that the future of taiwan should same as the dpp, that the future of taiwan should be same as the dpp, that the future of taiwan should be determined same as the dpp, that the future of taiwan should be determined by. Same as the dpp, that the future of| taiwan should be determined by the 23 million taiwan should be determined by the 23 Million People taiwan should be determined by the 23 Million People here taiwan should be determined by the 23 Million People here in taiwan should be determined by the 23 Million People here in taiwan. I 23 Million People here in taiwan. You dont 23 Million People here in taiwan. You dont say 23 Million People here in taiwan. You dont say you 23 Million People here in taiwan. You dont say you want 23 Million People here in taiwan. You dont say you want formal. You dont say you want formal independence, either. You are for the status quo. Thats go to the next question from charlene. Some eole next question from charlene. Some peeple believe next question from charlene. Some people believe that next question from charlene. Some people believe that to next question from charlene. Some people believe that to prevent a war from happening people believe that to prevent a war from Happening Taiwan people believe that to prevent a war from Happening Taiwan should people believe that to prevent a war from Happening Taiwan should try. People believe that to prevent a war. From Happening Taiwan should try not to offend from Happening Taiwan should try not to offend the from Happening Taiwan should try not to offend the chinese from Happening Taiwan should try not to offend the Chinese Communist to offend the Chinese Communist party to offend the Chinese Communist party in to offend the Chinese Communist party in any to offend the Chinese Communist party in any form to offend the Chinese Communist party in any form and to offend the Chinese Communist party in any form and should to offend the Chinese Communist party in any form and should not| party in any form and should not have party in any form and should not have invited party in any form and should not have invited the party in any form and should not have invited the us party in any form and should not have invited the us Speaker Party in any form and should not have invited the us speaker of l party in any form and should not l have invited the us Speaker Of The House have invited the us Speaker Of The House nancy have invited the us Speaker Of The House nancy pelosi. Have invited the us Speaker Of The House nancy pelosi. Some have invited the us Speaker Of The House nancy pelosi. Some believel house nancy pelosi. Some believe that the house nancy pelosi. Some believe that the chinese house nancy pelosi. Some believe that the chinese final house nancy pelosi. Some believe that the chinese final warning house nancy pelosi. Some believe. That the chinese final warning never carries that the chinese final warning never carries real that the chinese final warning never carries real consequences. That the chinese final warning never carries real consequences. How carries real consequences. How should carries real consequences. How should we carries real consequences. How should we perceive carries real consequences. How should we perceive the carries real consequences. How should we perceive the issue i carries real consequences. How. Should we perceive the issue and still maintain should we perceive the issue and still maintain our should we perceive the issue and still maintain our global should we perceive the issue and i still maintain our Global Presence . Amanda . Still maintain our Global Presence . Amanda . I still maintain our Global Presence . Amanda . ~. , still maintain our Global Presence . Amanda . ~. ,. ,. , amanda . I think for any government in the world. Amanda . I think for any government in the world, it amanda . I think for any government in the world, it would amanda . I think for any government in the world, it would be in the world, it would be unrealistic to use as a standard, chinese feelings to make a decision about your policies. We have seen that beijing is easily offended by a wide ranging activities and words so it is unrealistic to use that as a standard. At the same time i want to stress that it is clear that unification with taiwan has historically and consistently been very important, a core issue for the communist party. So we shouldnt underestimate their commitment to that. So their threats are credible. The question is how you thread the needle on this. It is clear that taiwanese to take steps to strengthen its ability to defend itself, with the help of the us. And that taiwan need to pursue its interests through its unofficial relationships within the framework of unofficial relationships, economically, politically, with europe, with the us and other countries that are willing. The key here is that while taiwan, for its interests in that way, that it remembers that it makes gestures of political assurance to beijing. I think thats also important and something we talk less about. Bill stanton. I opposed something we talk less about. Bill stanton. I opposed the something we talk less about. Bill stanton. I opposed the visit something we talk less about. Bill stanton. I opposed the visit of stanton. I opposed the visit of nancy pelosi stanton. I opposed the visit of nancy pelosi to stanton. I opposed the visit of nancy pelosi to taiwan, stanton. I opposed the visit of nancy pelosi to taiwan, not i stanton. I opposed the visit of nancy pelosi to taiwan, not because i nancy pelosi to taiwan, not because i dont nancy pelosi to taiwan, not because idont think nancy pelosi to taiwan, not because i dont think she should have a idont think she should have a right i dont think she should have a right to i dont think she should have a right to come. But what id like to see is right to come. But what id like to see is concrete measures by the united see is concrete measures by the United States, bolstering taiwan, whether United States, bolstering taiwan, whether providing more defensive equipment, more military training, more equipment, more military training, more money. Concrete gestures like that would more money. Concrete gestures like that would be much more meaningful than having congressmen flying in and out than having congressmen flying in and out on than having congressmen flying in and out on a regular basis. The Us Senate Just and out on a regular basis. The Us Senate Just passed and out on a regular basis. The Us Senate Just passed a and out on a regular basis. The Us Senate Just passed a 6. 5 and out on a regular basis. The Us Senate Just passed a 6. 5 billion l Senate Just Passed a 6. 5 billion bill to provide military aid to taiwan. ,. , bill to provide military aid to taiwan. , ,. ,. ,. , taiwan. They could have done that without having taiwan. They could have done that without having a taiwan. They could have done that without having a visit. Taiwan. They could have done that without having a visit. So taiwan. They could have done that without having a visit. So why without having a visit. So why didnt you without having a visit. So why didnt you want without having a visit. So why didnt you want nancy without having a visit. So why didnt you want Nancy Pelosil without having a visit. So why i didnt you want nancy pelosi to without having a visit. So why didnt you want nancy pelosi to be here . � ,. ,. , � didnt you want nancy pelosi to be here . � ,. ,. , �. , here . Its not that i didnt want here . Its not that i didnt want her here. Here . Its not that i didnt want her here. I here . Its not that i didnt want her here, i thought here . Its not that i didnt want her here, i thought it here . Its not that i didnt want her here, i thought it was here . Its not that i didnt want her here, i thought it was an i here . Its not that i didnt want her here, i thought it was an empty gesture her here, i thought it was an empty gesture i her here, i thought it was an empty gesture. I would her here, i thought it was an empty gesture. Iwould have rather seen her in gesture. Iwould have rather seen her in washington Working On Concrete her in washington Working On Concrete legislation. Her in washington Working On Concrete legislation. Because it would upset concrete legislation. Because it would upset the concrete legislation. Because it would upset the chinese . Concrete legislation. Because it| would upset the chinese . Which concrete legislation. Because it i would upset the chinese . Which it did and they fired those military missiles. � ,. ,. , did and they fired those military missiles. � ,. ,. Missiles. Because it was a symbolic move and it missiles. Because it was a symbolic move and it is missiles. Because it was a symbolic move and it is meaningless. Missiles. Because it was a symbolic move and it is meaningless. Next i move and it is meaningless. Next cuestion. Move and it is meaningless. Next question. Winston move and it is meaningless. Next question. Winston churchill move and it is meaningless. Next question. Winston churchill once | question. Winston churchill once said if you question. Winston churchill once said if you choose question. Winston churchill once said if you choose between question. Winston churchill once i said if you choose between humility and peace, you choose peace and then you will face war eventually. If you remember that, especially on this platform. The dont poke the bear argument, itjust doesnt work, the bear wants to eat you up anyway. fiur bear wants to eat you up anyway. Our next question, please. The bear wants to eat you up anyway. Our next question, please. The us bear wants to eat you up anyway. Our next question, please. The us seemsj next question, please. The us seems to be moving next question, please. The us seems to be moving away next question, please. The us seems to be moving away from next question, please. The us seems to be moving away from a next question, please. The us seems to be moving away from a strategy i next question, please. The us seems to be moving away from a strategy ofj to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity as to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity as biden to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity as biden made to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity as biden made clear to be moving away from a strategy of ambiguity as biden made clear his i ambiguity as biden made clear his defence ambiguity as biden made clear his Defence Of Ambiguity as biden made clear his defence of taiwan ambiguity as biden made clear his defence of taiwan if ambiguity as biden made clear his defence of taiwan if there ambiguity as biden made clear his defence of taiwan if there is i ambiguity as biden made clear his defence of taiwan if there is an i defence of taiwan if there is an unprecedented defence of taiwan if there is an unprecedented attack. Defence of taiwan if there is an unprecedented attack. What i defence of taiwan if there is an i unprecedented attack. What does this mean unprecedented attack. What does this mean for unprecedented attack. What does this mean for taiwan unprecedented attack. What does this mean for taiwan and unprecedented attack. What does this mean for taiwan and the unprecedented attack. What does this mean for taiwan and the western i mean for taiwan and the Western Community . Mean for taiwan and the Western Community . Mean for taiwan and the Western Community . Has the United States abandoned Strategic Community . Has the United States abandoned strategic ambiguity . I i abandoned strategic ambiguity . I think that biden has, for sure. On several think that biden has, for sure. On several occasions, at least four times, several occasions, at least four times, maybe five, hes indicated that we times, maybe five, hes indicated that we would defend taiwan in the event that we would defend taiwan in the event of that we would defend taiwan in the event of an that we would defend taiwan in the event of an attack. What happens is that his event of an attack. What happens is that his administrative flunkies around that his administrative flunkies around him come forward and say, well, around him come forward and say, well, we around him come forward and say, well, we havent changed our policy. But if well, we havent changed our policy. But if the well, we havent changed our policy. But if the president speaks on a number but if the president speaks on a number of but if the president speaks on a number of occasions and says we will defend number of occasions and says we will defend taiwan, that in effect is the policy defend taiwan, that in effect is the policy so defend taiwan, that in effect is the policy. So i defend taiwan, that in effect is the policy. So i think the policy has been policy. So i think the policy has been changed. And i think it should change been changed. And i think it should change | been changed. And i think it should chance. , ~ been changed. And i think it should chance. ,. , change. I would like to disagree with that, actually. Change. I would like to disagree with that, actually. I change. I would like to disagree with that, actually. I agree i change. I would like to disagree with that, actually. I agree in i change. I would like to disagree l with that, actually. I agree in the sense that the fact that biden has said it so many times means that under his presidency, if china would invade the us would take measures, i agree. He invade the us would take measures, i auree. , invade the us would take measures, i a. Ree,. , invade the us would take measures, i airee. ,. , invade the us would take measures, i auree. ,. , agree. He has said that explicitly, he would commit agree. He has said that explicitly, he would commit american agree. He has said that explicitly, he would commit american men | agree. He has said that explicitly, i he would commit american men and women to defending taiwan. Irate he would commit american men and women to defending taiwan. Women to defending taiwan. We can assume that women to defending taiwan. We can assume that under women to defending taiwan. We can assume that under biden women to defending taiwan. We can assume that under biden it women to defending taiwan. We can assume that under biden it would i assume that under biden it would happen but i dont agree with the fact that the policy should change. There are risks in clarifying, to have a strategic clarity and one key risk is that it can send the wrong. The Chinese Military already assumes that the us will militarily intervene in an intervention so that isnt changing the calculus at all by the us declaring that they would intervene. They already assume that. But what you are changing is you are sending a certain political signal to beijing that says the us is increasingly lending support towards taiwanese formal independence because there will be a concern that such a move gives taiwan a blank cheque. If the us comes out and says they will intervene and any sort of circumstances, that represents a wholesale change in some ways for beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan. Beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan, it beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan, it could beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan, it could end beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan, it could end up beijing. So there are risks. Risks for taiwan, it could end up being a pawn in the massive us china rivalry, right . If pawn in the massive us china rivalry. Right . Pawn in the massive us china rivalry, right . If there is a blank cheaue rivalry, right . If there is a blank cheque to rivalry, right . If there is a blank cheque to taiwan, rivalry, right . If there is a blank cheque to taiwan, taiwan rivalry, right . If there is a blank i cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything stupid cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything stupid to cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything stupid to provoke cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything stupid to provoke or cheque to taiwan, taiwan wouldnt do anything stupid to provoke or upset i anything stupid to provoke or upset china anything stupid to provoke or upset china i anything stupid to provoke or upset china idont anything stupid to provoke or upset china. I dont think anything stupid to provoke or upset china. I dont think this anything stupid to provoke or upset china. I dont think this kind anything stupid to provoke or upset china. I dont think this kind of china. Idont think this kind of policy china. Idont think this kind of policy of china. I dont think this kind of policy of clarity china. I dont think this kind of policy of clarity is china. I dont think this kind of policy of clarity is bad china. I dont think this kind of policy of clarity is bad for i policy of clarity is bad for maintaining policy of clarity is bad for maintaining deterrence. I policy of clarity is bad for| maintaining deterrence. I policy of clarity is bad for i maintaining deterrence. I think policy of clarity is bad for maintaining deterrence. I think to maintain maintaining deterrence. I think to maintaina maintaining deterrence. I think to maintain a credible maintaining deterrence. I think to maintain a credible and maintaining deterrence. I think to maintain a credible and effective i maintain a credible and effective deterrents. Maintain a credible and effective deterrents, strategic maintain a credible and effective deterrents, strategic clarity i maintain a credible and effective deterrents, strategic clarity is i deterrents, strategic clarity is very deterrents, strategic clarity is very important deterrents, strategic clarity is very important. Is deterrents, strategic clarity is very important deterrents, strategic clarity is very important. Is that how the government very important. Is that how the government yet very important. Is that how the government yet sees very important. Is that how the government yet sees it, very important. Is that how the government yet sees it, that i government yet sees it, that ambiguity has been abandoned . Lm ambiguity has been abandoned . Im not interpreting the policy but i personally not interpreting the policy but i personally for not interpreting the policy but i personally for clarity not interpreting the policy but i personally for clarity about i personally for clarity about technical personally for clarity about technical ambiguity. I personally for clarity about technicalambiguity. [ personally for clarity about technical ambiguity. Personally for clarity about technical ambiui. , ~. , technical ambiguity. I would like to interret technical ambiguity. I would like to interpret bidens technical ambiguity. I would like to interpret bidens policy. Technical ambiguity. I would like to interpret bidens policy. The technical ambiguity. I would like to interpret bidens policy. The us i technical ambiguity. I would like to | interpret bidens policy. The us has realised that the old china policy is failing. The old china policy was architect by Henry Kissinger himself. Forthe architect by Henry Kissinger himself. For the last a0 years, quite pleasing to china and he himself became the most favourite guest of china. The himself became the most favourite guest of china guest of china. The former us secretary guest of china. The former us secretary of guest of china. The former us secretary of state guest of china. The former us secretary of state under guest of china. The former us i secretary of state under president nixon. A rapprochement with china. Ambiguity didnt work. That is the conclusion the United States policymakers have already come to. Alexander, you are the kmt special representative for the United States, what is your interpretation . When you talk about ambiguity and clarity. When you talk about ambiguity and clarity. The when you talk about ambiguity and clarity, the purpose when you talk about ambiguity and clarity, the purpose is when you talk about ambiguity and clarity, the purpose is the when you talk about ambiguity and clarity, the purpose is the same, i when you talk about ambiguity and | clarity, the purpose is the same, to deter. Clarity, the purpose is the same, to deter. To clarity, the purpose is the same, to deter. To show clarity, the purpose is the same, to deter, to show deterrents. Clarity, the purpose is the same, to deter, to show deterrents. So, i clarity, the purpose is the same, to. Deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is better deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is better to deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is better to deter deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is better to deter a deter, to show deterrents. So, which one is better to deter a chinese i one is better to deter a chinese invasion . One is better to deter a chinese invasion . Ambiguity one is better to deter a chinese invasion . Ambiguity gives one is better to deter a chinese invasion . Ambiguity gives the i one is better to deter a chinese invasion . Ambiguity gives the United States invasion . Ambiguity gives the United States more invasion . Ambiguity gives the United States more flexibility invasion . Ambiguity gives the United States more flexibility to invasion . Ambiguity gives the United States more flexibility to respond. I states more flexibility to respond. To do states more flexibility to respond. To do or states more flexibility to respond. To do or not states more flexibility to respond. To do or not to states more flexibility to respond. To do or not to do, states more flexibility to respond. To do or not to do, and states more flexibility to respond. To do or not to do, and to states more flexibility to respond. To do or not to do, and to make i to do or not to do, and to make beijing to do or not to do, and to make beijing gas to do or not to do, and to make beijing gas. Thats to do or not to do, and to make beijing gas. Thats the to do or not to do, and to make beijing gas. Thats the basics. To do or not to do, and to make beijing gas. Thats the basics of| beijing gas. Thats the basics of ambiguitv beijing gas. Thats the basics of ambiguity. Clarity beijing gas. Thats the basics of ambiguity. Clarity in beijing gas. Thats the basics of ambiguity. Clarity in some beijing gas. Thats the basics of ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would not ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would not only ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would not only give ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would not only give china ambiguity. Clarity in some ways would not only give china a ambiguity. Clarity in some ways i would not only give china a strong signal would not only give china a strong signal that would not only give china a strong signal that the would not only give china a strong signal that the united would not only give china a strong signal that the United States would not only give china a strong signal that the United States will i signal that the United States will react, signal that the United States will react, and signal that the United States will react, and also signal that the United States will react, and also clarity signal that the United States will react, and also clarity can signal that the United States will react, and also clarity can tie signal that the United States willj react, and also clarity can tie the hands react, and also clarity can tie the hands of react, and also clarity can tie the hands of the react, and also clarity can tie the hands of the us react, and also clarity can tie the hands of the us and react, and also clarity can tie the hands of the us and lower react, and also clarity can tie the hands of the us and lower the i hands of the us and lower the strategic hands of the us and lower the strategic assurances hands of the us and lower the strategic assurances of hands of the us and lower the i strategic assurances of freedom hands of the us and lower the strategic assurances of freedom for the policymakers. Strategic assurances of freedom for the policymakers. You strategic assurances of freedom for the policymakers. The policymakers. You have two eole the policymakers. You have two peeple shaking the policymakers. You have two people shaking their the policymakers. You have two people shaking their heads. The policymakers. You have two people shaking their heads. Clarity, in the people shaking their heads. Clarity, tying the americans people shaking their heads. Clarity, tying the americans hands . People shaking their heads. Clarity, tying the americans hands . Clarityl tying the americans hands . Clarity is saying to china that if you invade, we will come to you. That gives america all of its leveraged to do whatever they want, almost whatever. The clarity gives the us more room to react. That whatever. The clarity gives the us more room to react. Whatever. The clarity gives the us more room to react. That way they would be tying more room to react. That way they would be tying themselves more room to react. That way they would be tying themselves into would be tying themselves into intervening. The would be tying themselves into intervening would be tying themselves into intervenina. , , intervening. The us response could be anything intervening. The us response could be anything. Military intervening. The us response could be anything. Military support, be anything. Military support, economic be anything. Military support, economic sanctions be anything. Military support, economic sanctions and be anything. Military support, economic sanctions and so be anything. Military support, | economic sanctions and so on, be anything. Military support, economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt mean economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt mean you economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt mean you have economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt mean you have to economic sanctions and so on, so it doesnt mean you have to send economic sanctions and so on, so it. Doesnt mean you have to send troops over here doesnt mean you have to send troops over here when doesnt mean you have to send troops over here when you doesnt mean you have to send troops over here when you take doesnt mean you have to send troops over here when you take on doesnt mean you have to send troops over here when you take on the over here when you take on the ambiguity over here when you take on the ambiguity policy over here when you take on the ambiguity policy. Ambiguity over here when you take on the. Ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means over here when you take on the ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond. Ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond. P, ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond, p, but ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond, p, but it ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond, p, but it doesnt ambiguity policy. Ambiguity means we will respond, p, but it doesnt tell will respond, p, but it doesnt tell you how will respond, p, but it doesnt tell ou how. �. Will respond, p, but it doesnt tell ou how. � ,. ,. ,. , you how. Theres a lot of ambiguity about strategic you how. Theres a lot of ambiguity about strategic ambiguity you how. Theres a lot of ambiguity about strategic ambiguity lets about strategic ambiguity lets just move on in the meantime. Anna, your question . Mr; just move on in the meantime. Anna, your question . Your question . My question concerns deterrents. The your question . My question concerns deterrents. The west your question . My question concerns deterrents. The west has your question . My question concerns deterrents. The west has failed your question . My question concerns deterrents. The west has failed in. Deterrents. The west has failed in deterring deterrents. The west has failed in deterring russia deterrents. The west has failed in deterring russia from deterrents. The west has failed in deterring russia from unleashingi deterrents. The west has failed in. Deterring russia from unleashing its war in deterring russia from unleashing its war in ukraine deterring russia from unleashing its war in ukraine but deterring russia from unleashing its war in ukraine but has deterring russia from unleashing its war in ukraine but has since deterring russia from unleashing its| war in ukraine but has since adopted comprehensive war in ukraine but has since adopted comprehensive sanctions war in ukraine but has since adopted comprehensive sanctions which war in ukraine but has since adopted comprehensive sanctions which havej comprehensive sanctions which have helped comprehensive sanctions which have helped isolate comprehensive sanctions which have helped isolate russia. Comprehensive sanctions which have helped isolate russia. Do comprehensive sanctions which have helped isolate russia. Do you comprehensive sanctions which have helped isolate russia. Do you think. Helped isolate russia. Do you think such punitive helped isolate russia. Do you think such punitive measures helped isolate russia. Do you think such punitive measures to helped isolate russia. Do you think such punitive measures to deter. Such punitive measures to deter beijing such punitive measures to deter beijing from such punitive measures to deter beijing from using such punitive measures to deter beijing from using force such punitive measures to deter beijing from using force to such punitive measures to deter beijing from using force to take| beijing from using force to take taiwan . Beijing from using force to take taiwan . B beijing from using force to take taiwan . �. ~ beijing from using force to take taiwan . W. ,. ,. Beijing from using force to take taiwan . ,. ,. , taiwan . A quick answer from all of ou, taiwan . A quick answer from all of you. Would taiwan . A quick answer from all of you, would sanctions taiwan . A quick answer from all of you, would sanctions work taiwan . A quick answer from all of you, would sanctions work on taiwan . A quick answer from all of| you, would sanctions work on china in the event of an invasion because they would isolate china . I in the event of an invasion because they would isolate china . They would isolate china . I think in they would isolate china . I think in the case they would isolate china . I think in the ease of they would isolate china . I think in the case of ukraine, they would isolate china . I think in the case of ukraine, as they would isolate china . I think in the case of ukraine, as a they would isolate china . I think in the case of ukraine, as a student l they would isolate china . I think in| the case of ukraine, as a student of international the case of ukraine, as a student of international relations, the case of ukraine, as a student of international relations, sanctions, i international relations, sanctions, the interpretation international relations, sanctions, the interpretation of international relations, sanctions, the interpretation of sanctions international relations, sanctions, | the interpretation of sanctions and the interpretation of sanctions and the cost the interpretation of sanctions and the cost of the interpretation of sanctions and the cost of sanctions the interpretation of sanctions and the cost of sanctions have the interpretation of sanctions and l the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did not the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did not witness the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did not witness that the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did not witness that before the cost of sanctions have expanded. We did not witness that before the i we did not witness that before the war in we did not witness that before the war in ukraine we did not witness that before the war in ukraine. And we did not witness that before the war in ukraine. And beijing war in ukraine. And beijing Decision Makers war in ukraine. And beijing Decision Makers must war in ukraine. And beijing| Decision Makers must have war in ukraine. And beijing Decision Makers must have watched it, Decision Makers must have watched it. Thought Decision Makers must have watched it. Thought about Decision Makers must have watched it, thought about it Decision Makers must have watched it, thought about it and Decision Makers must have watched it, thought about it and think Decision Makers must have watched it, thought about it and think that i it, thought about it and think that the current it, thought about it and think that the current measures it, thought about it and think that the current measures against it, thought about it and think that l the current measures against russia and isolating the current measures against russia and isolating russia the current measures against russia and isolating russia will the current measures against russia and isolating russia will teach and isolating russia will teach beijing and isolating russia will teach beijing a and isolating russia will teach beijing a great and isolating russia will teach beijing a great lesson. And isolating russia will teach beijing a great lesson. And isolating russia will teach beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them a beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them a lesson . Beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them a lesson . Yes. Beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them a lesson . Yes. But| beijing a great lesson. Would it teach them a lesson . Yes. But china is all over the teach them a lesson . Yes. But china is all over the place teach them a lesson . Yes. But china is all over the place in teach them a lesson . Yes. But china is all over the place in the teach them a lesson . Yes. But china is all over the place in the trading. Is all over the place in the trading economy, is all over the place in the trading economy. They is all over the place in the trading economy, they are is all over the place in the trading economy, they are trading is all over the place in the trading economy, they are trading with l economy, they are trading with everybody. Economy, they are trading with everybody. So economy, they are trading with everybody, so would economy, they are trading with everybody, so would the economy, they are trading with i everybody, so would the sanctions work . Everybody, so would the sanctions work . L everybody, so would the sanctions work . ~. , everybody, so would the sanctions work . ~. ,. ,. , work . I think sanctions alone would not deter the work . I think sanctions alone would not deter the people work . I think sanctions alone would not deter the people from work . I think sanctions alone would not deter the people from taking i not deter the people from taking this action but supplying arms to taiwan this action but supplying arms to taiwan may have more credibility in terms taiwan may have more credibility in terms of taiwan may have more credibility in terms of deterring the prc. Pressure has alwa s terms of deterring the prc. Pressure has always worked terms of deterring the prc. Pressure has always worked in terms of deterring the prc. Pressure has always worked in terms terms of deterring the prc. Pressure has always worked in terms of has always worked in terms of changing the prc� s policy. Pressures and sanctions always work. While the world is sending those messages, pressures and sanctions, they are sending the wrong message to beijing, to apply pressure and say you are doing Human Rights Abuses, it is horrible but at the same time, lets do a trade talk. The trade talk agreement isnt linked to the question or demand we put on human rights. It is telling beijing that you dont care about human rights. So the world is being a hypocrite and sanctions wouldnt work. It you and sanctions wouldnt work. If you want send the and sanctions wouldnt work. If you want send the right and sanctions wouldnt work. If you want send the right message, and sanctions wouldnt work. If you want send the right message, if. And sanctions wouldnt work. If gm. Want send the right message, if you do sanctions it has to be with the right message. The right message is, no, we arent going to we are going to hold onto your human rights and accountability to freedom. If sanctions come in that way, beijing would send delegation to washington and talk about a new deal next week. Final question to wrap up this edition. Amanda, is taiwan the biggest flashpoint for china and the world . Biggest flashpoint for china and the world . Yes a quick answer. Why . Because it world . Yes a quick answer. Why . Because it is world . Yes a quick answer. Why . Because it is the world . Jest a quick answer. Why . Because it is the Central Point world . 193� a quick answer. Why . Because it is the Central Point of contention in the us china bilateral relations right now, so it is the one issue that could possibly bring beijing and washington into a direct conflict. Band beijing and washington into a direct conflict. , , , , conflict. And repercussions for the world. Repercussions conflict. And repercussions for the world. Repercussions for conflict. And repercussions for the world. Repercussions for the conflict. And repercussions for the | world. Repercussions for the world are massive world. Repercussions for the world are massive. Largely world. Repercussions for the world are massive. Largely because world. Repercussions for the world are massive. Largely because of i are massive. Largely because of economic reasons. Are massive. Largely because of economic reasons. Thank you, bill stanton . L economic reasons. Thank you, bill stanton . I agree. Economic reasons. Thank you, bill stanton . I agree. The economic reasons. Thank you, bill stanton . I agree. The reason economic reasons. Thank you, bill stanton . I agree. The reason is i economic reasons. Thank you, bill i stanton . I agree. The reason is that xijininr stanton . I agree. The reason is that xijinping has stanton . I agree. The reason is that xi jinping has made stanton . I agree. The reason is that xi jinping has made it stanton . I agree. The reason is that xi jinping has made it the stanton . I agree. The reason is that xi jinping has made it the key xi jinping has made it the key issue xi jinping has made it the key issue. Hes actually threatened war with the issue. Hes actually threatened war with the United States over taiwan and so with the United States over taiwan and so it with the United States over taiwan and so it is with the United States over taiwan and so it is now the number one threat and so it is now the number one threat and and so it is now the number one threat and it is the number one potentially explosion that would start an potentially explosion that would start an enormous war. So i think we have start an enormous war. So i think we have to start an enormous war. So i think we have to pay start an enormous war. So i think we have to pay serious attention to it. Alexander . Have to pay serious attention to it. Alexander . Have to pay serious attention to it. Alexander . ~ , , , alexander . When isa yes i would hope that the Young Alexander . When isa yes i would hope that the young people alexander . When isa yes i would hope that the young people in alexander . When isa yes i would hope that the young people in taiwan that the young people in taiwan would that the young people in taiwan would share that the young people in taiwan would share the that the young people in taiwan would share the same that the young people in taiwan would share the same concern. That the young people in taiwan. Would share the same concern and that the young people in taiwan would share the same concern and the vigilance would share the same concern and the vigilance that would share the same concern and the vigilance that we would share the same concern and the vigilance that we need would share the same concern and the vigilance that we need to would share the same concern and the vigilance that we need to have. Would share the same concern and the vigilance that we need to have. Yes, l vigilance that we need to have. Yes, it is a vigilance that we need to have. Yes, it is a flashpoint vigilance that we need to have. Yes, it is a flashpoint because vigilance that we need to have. Yes, it is a flashpoint because china it is a flashpoint because china sees it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan as it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan as a it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan as a part it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan as a part of it is a flashpoint because china sees taiwan as a part of its sees taiwan as a part of its possession sees taiwan as a part of its possession and sees taiwan as a part of its possession and it sees taiwan as a part of its possession and it will sees taiwan as a part of its possession and it will not l sees taiwan as a part of its i possession and it will not give sees taiwan as a part of its possession and it will not give up. Right possession and it will not give up. Right now possession and it will not give up. Right now the possession and it will not give up. Right now the united possession and it will not give up. Right now the United States possession and it will not give up. Right now the United States also. Right now the United States also sees taiwan right now the United States also sees taiwan at right now the United States also sees taiwan at the right now the United States also sees taiwan at the centre right now the United States also sees taiwan at the centre of right now the United States also sees taiwan at the centre of the | sees taiwan at the centre of the first island sees taiwan at the centre of the first island chain sees taiwan at the centre of the first island chain and sees taiwan at the centre of the first island chain and should sees taiwan at the centre of the first island chain and should not| sees taiwan at the centre of the i first island chain and should not be given first island chain and should not be given up first island chain and should not be given up so first island chain and should not be given up so when first island chain and should not be given up. So when both first island chain and should not be given up. So when both powers first island chain and should not bej given up. So when both powers are first island chain and should not be. Given up. So when both powers are in stiff competition given up. So when both powers are in stiff competition and given up. So when both powers are in stiff competition and both given up. So when both powers are in stiff competition and both powers stiff competition and both powers see taiwan stiff competition and both powers see taiwan as stiff competition and both powers see taiwan as a stiff competition and both powers see taiwan as a place stiff competition and both powers see taiwan as a place that stiff competition and both powers see taiwan as a place that cannotj stiff competition and both powers i see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, then see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, then taiwan see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, then taiwan is see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, then taiwan is the see taiwan as a place that cannot be lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. I lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. Leaders lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. Leaders in lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. Leaders in beijing lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. Leaders in beijing believe lost, then taiwan is the flashpoint. Leaders in beijing believe the leaders in beijing believe the strategy is to succumb the enemy without using combat. They want to use the threat of force to coerce taiwan to come to beijings terms. They would use force in the immediate future but they want to force taiwan to accept the unification terms. Force taiwan to accept the unification terms. , , , , unification terms. Last word to you. I dont unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think so. Unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think so. You unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think so. You dont unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think so. You dont think unification terms. Last word to you. I dont think so. You dont think it l i dont think so. You dont think it is the flashpoint . I dont think so. You dont think it is the flashpoint . No, i dont think so. You dont think it is the flashpoint . No, it i dont think so. You dont think it is the flashpoint . No, it has i dont think so. You dont think it is the flashpoint . No, it has been for over seven is the flashpoint . No, it has been for over seven decades is the flashpoint . No, it has been for over seven decades because l is the flashpoint . No, it has been l for over seven decades because the world for over seven decades because the world has for over seven decades because the world has been sending the wrong message world has been sending the wrong message to beijing, to the communist party. Message to beijing, to the communist party. That message to beijing, to the communist party, that the world is afraid of china party, that the world is afraid of china i party, that the world is afraid of china. I think the world is changing tone~ china. I think the world is changing tone~ china china. I think the world is changing tone. China should be afraid of the world, tone. China should be afraid of the world, not tone. China should be afraid of the world, not the other way around. The us led world, not the other way around. The us led western democracies, i blame them for us led western democracies, i blame them for the past decades of appeasement. They contributed to this point. Appeasement. They contributed to this point, that taiwan could be a flashpoint. This point, that taiwan could be a flashpoint, but they have passed the point of flashpoint, but they have passed the point of change and the us is sending point of change and the us is sending the right messages to china, that china sending the right messages to china, that china should be afraid of the world, that china should be afraid of the world, not that china should be afraid of the world, not the other way around. It world, not the other way around. [it leaves world, not the other way around. Leaves you in world, not the other way around. It leaves you in a minority of one on the answer to that question. We must leave it there. Thats all from this edition of global questions from taipei. I hope we have brought some insights into what people are thinking and feeling about the possibility of a chinese invasion of taiwan and how that might trigger a conflict that has severe global repercussions. Thank you to my panel and audience here at the new Horizon Building and to you wherever you are watching and listening to the building. Global questions is a programme that brings you the news behind the headlines. Until the next time, goodbye. Hello, there. Exceptionally mild for the time of year over the last couple of days but things are expected to turn cooler through the upcoming week, closer to the seasonal norm, because of a change to a westerly wind. Low pressure bringing spells of wet and windy weather. Quite an autumnal week coming up. We lose the showers this evening over many areas and overnight showers in southern and Western Areas but a lot of dry weather, temperatures 9 12. The breeze is going to pick up out west. Low pressure pushing into Western Areas slowly through the day ringing persistent and heavy rain at times. The odd shower around, but many places starting monday on a fine note, some sunshine. Turning wetter in Northern Ireland and for much of scotland heading through the day. Temperatures up to 18 in the south, the mid teens in the north. This is bbc news. The headlines at lipm. At least 153 people, most of them teenagers and young adults celebrating halloween, have died in a crush in the south korean capital seoul. President Yoon Suk Yeol promises a thorough investigation. Translation a tragedy and disaster | that should not have happened took| place in the heart of seoul. I hope the people who are injured will get better soon. Kent police has confirmed a number of incendiary devices were thrown at a border force centre in dover this morning. We dont yet know a motive for this, despite those three bombs, we believe there Something Like petrol bombs, they were thrown the centre. As the controversy grows over the Home Secretary suella braverman

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