it fit it fit it a fig r ait h fig itin 5 wit itu u5 l5 55. , 5 lit 55 55 il5 55 flit right thing to do, but i the right thing to do, but i understand if people think it was a mistake and that i should have spoken to him about it. I did speak to him about it a few days later, but neither of us can remember exactly what i said because we were both in pretty bad shape. Thanks very much. Gary gibbon. Cani can ijust can i just be can ijust be clear about that . Yesterday, you had a face to face conversation with the Prime Minister about all the circumstances around this trip and those key two or so weeks. But he is known about your excursion north for about a month and a half . And he didnt ask you anything until yesterday . And a half . And he didnt ask you anything untilyesterday . So, regarding the first part of your question, yes, and essentially, what ive just told you guys is what i told the Prime Minister yesterday. I went through it all. Yes, he asked me about it all on, was it friday
night, that the story broke . me about it all on, was it friday night, that the story broke . I cant remember. So, it was when the story broke, when it was public, he was interested , broke, when it was public, he was interested, he didnt ask you anything before that . So. As i said before, we spoke about it in the week after it happened, i cant remember what day, but in the days following, we were both in bed ill, we had a few conversations on the phone. Since then, its a long time. Asi phone. Since then, its a long time. As i said, i spoke to him about it then, i told as i said, i spoke to him about it then, itold him as i said, i spoke to him about it then, i told him about it, but to be honest, that was the least of things we we re honest, that was the least of things we were thinking. My movements we re we were thinking. My movements were not really part of our conversation. We were talking about. The Health Message of the government has been putting out there, you say you dont regret what youve done, you say you acted correctly. We were talking about vaccines, about treatments, about hundreds of very important thing is, we did not spend a lot of time talking about me and where i was and
my own circumstances. Let me ask you about one of those very important things. With tracing perhaps kicking off in things. With tracing perhaps kicking offina things. With tracing perhaps kicking off in a big way in the coming weeks, people will be asked to isolate, the public Health Message will never have been more critical, perhaps. Do you think public adherence to those instructions will be weaker or stronger as a result of your recent activities . Well, i hope it wont affect it, and i hope that now that people know what actually happened, and that some of the false stories that have been circulating and driving a lot of people understandably mad and. About it. You stood up the central story in this allegation, in that you drove a very long way from home, when everyone was told to be at home. If there was more leeway in these instructions than we thought, why didnt you tell everyone about that . Well. With great respect, gary. That distance. I am trying to a nswer gary. That distance. I am trying to answer the question. With great
respect, it is notjust a simple matter of the regulations cover the regulations describe various exceptional circumstances vary and may not be possible to follow the rules. It does not say you must stay at home in all circumstances. It says that there are some circumstances in which you wont be able to follow these rules, and it seemed to me that i was in such an exceptional circumstance and i was trying to balance all of these very complicated things. People will be staggered to hear you say that, when the message was so clear stay home. Is the fact that the Prime Minister cant do his job without you . The guidance says, if youre living with children. I am reading out the actual guidance. Keep following this advice to the best of your ability. However, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible. What weve seen so far is that children with, the appear to be less severely affected. It is nevertheless important to do your best to full of this guidance. And you know as well as i do that there
are. That the deputy chief medical officer was discussing this, if youve got a child that is four yea rs youve got a child that is four years old, and neither of you can look after him, the guidance doesnt say youve just got to sit there. So i think, as ive said, i think i behaved reasonably in all of these. Are given all of these circumstances and the Different Things i had to try and weigh up. Jason groves. Hi. You blame the media for this mess that youve got ligament into. Do you accept that whatever legal nicety you may have to say, that you havent broken the letter of these regular is, youve driven a coach and horses through the spirit of them, and that is why people are so cross about it . These regulations. I dont agree. You dont agree . No, i dont agree. Lets go through it, shall we . You left london, with your wife, who had coronavirus terms. Completely against the regulations. Youre up in durham, and you decided to go for a drive, on a weekend, when, a few yards from here, the foreign secretary that weekend was telling us secretary that weekend was telling us to stay at home and save lives. You went for a drive, you sat by a river, you went for a walk in the wood. I mean, you may or may not have a way ofjustifying this to yourself, and possibly, there may even be some legal loophole, but youve broken the spirit of it, havent you . No, i dont think that i have. Just to correct one thing. When we left, my wife did not have a cough, she did not have a fever, those were the two symptoms that we re those were the two symptoms that were mentioned. She was ill, she had thrown up, but as i said before, we didnt know whether or not she had covid or not. Secondly, secondly, as
isaid covid or not. Secondly, secondly, as i said earlier on, the walk in the woods was on. Was on private land, ididnt woods was on. Was on private land, i didnt leave our property to go for a walk in the woods. And thats perfectly reasonable behaviour. You stopped on the way back from castle bar stopped on the way back from castlebar not. Yeah, i was driving back from castlebar not and my child with a four year old, was in the car seatin with a four year old, was in the car seat in the back, he said, dad, i need to go to the toilet. We pulled into the side of the road, he jumped out with my wife, i dont think any reasonable person would say that i behaved, that thats bad behaviour. Youve plainly had a tough time, i dont think anyone would argue with that, but theres lots of other
people who have had a tough time. I would like to finish by. We had a letter today from andrew and sarah in wiltshire, their daughter and son in law live ten miles from them and theyve got two children. They came down with covid, and they said, imagine our frustration living so near and yet not being able to help, it was a big sacrifice that we made. And they feel like mugs now. I mean, they want you to resign. Did you offer to resign, when you saw the Prime Minister . No, i have not offered to resign. Did you ever consider it . No, i have not considered it. As i said, i think it is reasonable to say that other people would have behaved differently, in different ways, in this whole situation, but as i stressed, i was trying to balance lots of competing things. If i hadnt worked here, for example, then you could very easily say that 0k, then you could very easily say that ok, icould then you could very easily say that ok, i could just have stayed in an
isolated cottage for weeks afterwards. But i was involved in lots of things involving crucial questions of vaccines, trying to get scientists involved in the effort, trying to get money moved, trying to get regulations moved out of the way. And i thought that if i could return to work, then i should seek to return to work. And i would stress that i took expert medical advice before i moved, to say. And i actually went through the whole details of what ive just told you, i went through, on saturday the 11th, on day 15 sorry, is that day 14 or 15, a country memo. But anyway. It is day i. So, yes, saturday the 11th. On day 14 is when i took medical advice, day 14 of symptoms, and i was told then that, youre clear to. I said, can i go back to work monday tuesday . And i was told, yes, given what youve explained, you are not a danger to
the public now, you can safely go back to work and you can hire para childcare. Given that, i thought that i ought to go back to work and do what i could in this emergency. 0k, do what i could in this emergency. Ok, thanks. Mrcummings, how many mr cummings, how many miles is it from your house, the house you are staying in in durham, and Barnard Castle, where you went . |j staying in in durham, and Barnard Castle, where you went . I dont know how any miles it is, it is roughly half an hour. Right. So, there are people without gardens come on never mind access to private land and woodland, who havent made unnecessary car journeys woodland, who havent made unnecessary carjourneys like that for more than two months now. Theyve been following rules that you helped for and create. So, where the public stupid to follow these rules to the letter, rather than looking for loopholes, like you did . Erm, no, of course the public were not stupid to follow the rules. And i wasnt looking for loopholes. I was looking to try to do the best that i could a complex situation, where i was trying to weigh up the safety of my child with trying to get back to work, and a lot of difficult decisions to make around that. How does your trip to Barnard Castle have anything to do with the safety of your child or your work . Because, as i expend, i had been very ill, on the sunday, the 12th, i had said to my wife, right, lets pack up the car and go back. Ive been cleared by the doctor to go back to work. And she said, and i think it was perfectly reasonable, a few days ago you could barely stand up. You said that your eyesight was weird and it seemed to be weird, we shouldnt just embark on weird and it seemed to be weird, we shouldntjust embark on a 270 mile, whatever it is, journey, and then end upfinding whatever it is, journey, and then end up finding halfway through that you actually cant drive that far. So, we should get in the car and see if you can actually drive. The only way to avoid this problem would have been just to say, i am just going to stay in durham, which i could have done but i didnt think was the right thing to do. So, one has to make. I had been told by expert medical advice that i wasnt a danger to the public, and that i could go back to work in number 10 downing street on the monday tuesday. And therefore i was trying to do that in the safest way possible. And i think that that was a reasonable thing to do. That doesnt make any sense, why do you have to make a half hourjourney each way to Barnard Castle, why not drive a little bit of the way to london and then go back if you want feeling well . I mean, to be. We didnt think of doing that, to be honest. We just thought, didnt think of doing that, to be honest. Wejust thought, ok, lets whizz down the road and see how i feel. Do you regret not thinking about it . Erm, do i regret notjust
trying to drive to london and see if ican do trying to drive to london and see if i can do it . Do you regret taking a half hour journey to barnard i can do it . Do you regret taking a half hourjourney to Barnard Castle and sitting for 15 minutes, as you say . As i said, i think it was a reasonable thing to do. Perhaps youre right and we should have just cracked on and tried to do the whole trip. But the whole point was, i had been extremely ill, my vision had been extremely ill, my vision had been a bit weird, we were all going to go back, my wife said we should. We should drive down the road and see if you can actually drive and see if your vision is weird or if you are ok. I thought thats a good idea, i should do. As i stress, i had thats a good idea, i should do. As istress, i had been thats a good idea, i should do. As i stress, i had been cleared to go back to work. So, the application that i shouldnt have been driving back to london, i dont think is reasonable. Because i had spoken to a doctor about it and i had been cleared to come back to work. You mention your wife a lot. If you and your wife felt that you had done nothing wrong, why did both your articles in this right two in the
spectator micro from a few weeks ago make absolutely no mention of you being in durham . Because i said, my house in london was already and is now the subject of some very unpleasant actions, and why on earth would i mention another house that i was in, where ive got two elderly pa rents, was in, where ive got two elderly parents, and other relatives living there, who now today also have a lot of unpleasant things going on wrong around their house, too . I dont think i was obliged to do that. Why write such a detailed article at all . My wife is a writer, i dont tell her what to do. You wrote one, too. Youre not a writer. |j tell her what to do. You wrote one, too. Youre not a writer. I wrote a few sentences about. About what it was like to be with mary. Nicola. Thank you, mrcummings. Was like to be with mary. Nicola. Thank you, mr cummings. You said that you sought expert medical
advice before returning to london from durham. Did you seek any such advice before making the initial trip to durham . No, i didnt. And we re trip to durham . No, i didnt. And were you confident, or how could you be confident that you wouldnt be putting anybody else at risk by making that trip . So, the point was that i knew that i could get to a place that was completely isolated. I knew that i had a full tank of petrol, i could drive to a place where i was completely isolated from everybody else. I knew that if me and my wife could not look after our small child, there was a 16 year old and a 20 year old, 50 metres away, that i could call and say, we need help. They are old enough to look after a child, and also young enough to be in the least at risk category. If id stayed in london and a similar thing had happened and i would have had to get
somebody else there and expose them to danger, or invite them into the house, which would also have exposed them to danger. The way that i did it seem to me to be the safest thing for everybody in the circumstances. And in fact as it turned out, i didnt have to put anybody in that house in danger, because although we we re house in danger, because although we were both ill, and i couldnt look after a four year old, my wife could. So, as i stressed, i think that in all the circumstances, it was the most sensible thing to do. You mentioned you had a full tank of petrol before you left, but did you have to fill up before you came back . Was that another stop you made . No, we drove up and then we went back. I am pretty sure we called in and filled up with petrol on the way back. But remember, at this point, i had been cleared to drive back to work so i dont think
in any way that was breaking the rules. I think it isjust important to be clear exactly how many stops youve made, because you have disputed some of the accounts that have been reported. On the way up, i did not stop at all, and on the way down, cannot be entirely sure, but i am 95 sure i did stop on the way back and fill with petrol. But that might be wrong. You said in the statement you read out, you try to exercise your judgment in statement you read out, you try to exercise yourjudgment in doing the best thing for your family . People up best thing for your family . People up and down the country have been trying to do the best for their families, you talked about complicated circumstances, so many people have those, competing caring needs for children and elderly people. Most people that me and my colleagues here have spoken to, did not think what you did was within the rules. Regardless of whether
they had the opportunity to make such a journey. There are Single Parents who have had covid i9 and have had to care for even younger children than you. Because that is the situation they found themselves in and they were following the advice issued from this building. How can you not feel apologetic towards them for undermining the rule that you helped to create . Obviously, i feel extreme sympathy for single mums who would have been in sucha for single mums who would have been in such a terrible situation. But all i can do, all i can do is repeat what i said before, on that evening my wife had just been in a situation where she felt barely able to look after our child. I was essentially surrounded by people who were either testing positive, or had symptoms for covid. It seemed perfectly
likely that i would have it and could not look after a child. In fa ct, could not look after a child. In fact, that is exactly what happened. The next day i was ill and i got extremely ill a couple of days later andi extremely ill a couple of days later and i could not look after a child. I could barely move to be honest. If both of us had been in that situation, we would have needed help. And in that scenario, what would have been best for everybody . Would it have been best for my 17 year old niece to walk 50 metres and look after our child, or would it have been best for me to be here, calling 999 . I think that what i did was the most reasonable thing in the circumstances given that my nieces and my sister had very kindly said if there is an emergency we will help. Finally, before you made the decision to drive up to durham, did you make any inquiries with neighbours or friends to see if they orany neighbours or friends to see if they or any other people in london who may have been able to help you,
should you have needed help looking after your son . I didnt know, because as i said, anything like that. First of all, i dont think it would have been reasonable to ask someone, some it would have been reasonable to ask someone, some friend to come and expose themselves to a deadly disease where my 17 year old niece has already volunteered to do it for me. To be honest, i didnt really think about that. I thought, i am lucky, if this nightmare does happen then that is the best thing for everybody. Thank you. Nicola. Sorry, sorry, matt. Why werent you honest with the public before now and before friday about your trip to durham . In what way was i not honest . We were asking daily at the
numberten honest . We were asking daily at the number ten briefing, where were you working, people would have understood, your difficulties at the time, why werent you honest about that . There has been a long string of inaccurate stories about me for months, after month, after month. The truth is, answering a lot of these things does not necessarily clear up confusion. It frequently has led more confusion. So you are not worried that you are admitting being honest with the public that you are travelling for durham for understandable circumstances could have sent out the wrong message to other families . I was worried, i was worried about the whole thing. Not just the situation in the 14 days, but in the time since friday night, there werent any good options. Do you regret not laying out clearly, when you came back to avoid security problems, being honest to the
public . I do, i think i problems, being honest to the public . I do, i thinkl said problems, being honest to the public . I do, ithinki said at problems, being honest to the public . I do, i thinkl said at the beginning of my statement, in retrospect it would have been better to set this out earlier on, but we have to make judgments about these things in number ten. Ourjudgment at the time was, if we try and start explain everything it would lead to more confusion. That often happens around here. But there has been all of these reports, did i go back a second time, did i go back on the 19th of may, was the third visit . By this morning, there seem to be so much confusion about so many things the Prime Minister and i and others thought the best thing to do now, the only thing to do now is to actually just come the only thing to do now is to actuallyjust come out and discuss it and lay the whole thing out, including my child being ill and all that stuff. Regardless of whos fault it is, this whole episode is
already having an impact on peoples behaviour. Government scientists are warning of more people will die and the police have said it will make their job the police have said it will make theirjob harder. Regardless of whose fault it is, why shouldnt you resign, draw a line under it and hope the government regains control over this pandemic . hope the government regains control over this pandemic . I hope that now that people have heard what happens, i think, as i have stressed, in a very complicated situation, i behaved reasonably and i tried to do the thing which are minimised risks to everybody, given the Different Things i had to weigh up. I hope that having heard this that the people will say, ok, we understand the situation and we understand why he did it. Some people, i am sure will think, i would have done this differently all that differently
and, you know, perhaps they are right. Iam not and, you know, perhaps they are right. I am not saying that having laid all of this out, i am not saying i know i am right. Iam saying, this is what i did at the time, this is why i did it at the time, this is why i did it at the time, iwas time, this is why i did it at the time, i was trying to weigh up competing things and i thought going back to work and help at the whole disaster. Many people have said i shouldnt have done that. Disaster. Many people have said i shouldnt have done thatm disaster. Many people have said i shouldnt have done that. If the episode does rumble on, will you review your position . Sorry . Will you review your position in a week or so you review your position in a week or so if it keeps distracting . M you review your position in a week or so if it keeps distracting . It is up or so if it keeps distracting . It is up to the Prime Minister. I am here to do the best i can for the government to try and change the country for the better in lots of ways, to get more investment into the nhs, to do all sorts of things that we have talked about during this crisis. I have been trying to
do the best i can to make the government machine work as well as possible. If the Prime Minister thinks i should stop, that is not for me to decide, it is up to him to decide. You have said there is a lot of things you wish you had done better, broadly, what areas do you wish you had done better over this pandemic . It is not for me to answer other questions about government policy over this. That is a job for the Prime Minister and he will be giving a conference later on. What i was saying was, you know, i know that i have made mistakes in dealing with this thing going right back to january. I think that my behaviour in these 14 days, when people hear everything that happened, i hope the people will agree that it was
reasonable. They might not think they would have done the same thing, but i hope they would agree it was reasonable calculations in all the circumstances. And i dont think what i did in these 14 days was a mistake, but i certainly made a lot of other mistakes, i make mistakes every day. Thank you. Caitlin. Thank you. You have already said, mr cummings, there was an available empty property at your parents farm. It was not a second home, to which travel to is banned, but it is a privileged position. Do not think it is one rule for most of us and one rule for everybody else who can bend it slightly because they have the luxury of an empty house lying around . No, as i have said i dont think that is the case. The reason i
went to that place is because it seemed like the safest option given the considerations. I was weighing up the considerations. I was weighing up what is the safest thing for my child, what is the safest thing in terms of how to get back to work and help with this emergency. What is the safest thing in terms of the problems with my current house and i was having to weigh all these things up was having to weigh all these things up and make a decision in a very short period of time. Lots of people would have liked to have weighed up the safest options for the child and had the opportunity to go to an empty, save space. Did you not have any thoughts, i should be going through this in the same way everybody else is . I should be staying at home and doing everything ican . |am staying at home and doing everything i can . I am not sure i can usefully add to what i have said. I was trying to balance these three things
about the safety to my child. The point about it wasnt some nice place to be, if you had been there you would see it is sort of concrete blocks. The point about it was, not that it was a nice place to be, but it was the safest place to be in the circumstances and it meant i didnt have to expose other people to risk u nless have to expose other people to risk unless i absolutely had to in a critical emergency. And i thought that the regulations, as i stress, the regulations say we are aware not all these measures will be possible if you are living with children. I had a wife who had already said, she was close to not being able to look after a child. I was thinking, this might be me tomorrow. In fact, it was me tomorrow, what do i do then . If you imagine this situation, if both of us had been unable to look after him, the way that i organised
it was the way that in which the smallest risk to the smallest number of people was actually going on. And given that and the other things i was also thinking about, i think it was also thinking about, i think it was also thinking about, i think it was a reasonable thing to do. But as i stress, i can understand that some people might say, you know, it is your own fault if people are making threats at your house. That is not a good reason to leave. We have all had to stay, you know, other people will make their own judgments about this whole thing. I dont think there is much more i can say. He also mentioned that you have made other mistakes in dealing with the pandemic since january, can you point us to any more of them . As i stressed, at some point in the future i will be happy to go through all the Different Things i think i got wrong. I would also point out
that lots of the media reports about what i have thought, what i have said, what i have done are com pletely said, what i have done are completely false. For many years i have been writing about the dangers of pandemics. Last year i wrote explicitly about the danger of coronaviruses, i stressed that the importance of government planning and that i was worried that people we re and that i was worried that people were not taking it seriously enough. A lot of media reports have tried to claim that i sort of pushed it off and didnt realise what a danger it was. And i think no reasonable person can come to that conclusion if you look at what i have said and what i have written over the last few years. What i have written over the last few yea rs. I what i have written over the last few years. I took it extremely seriously, i took it extremely seriously, i took it extremely seriously a few years ago. I encourage other people to take it extremely seriously. But i have made other mistakes in terms of how i have dealt with things since january
the show. It is one of those mistakes herd immunity . No it is not on the things that have been written about that are completely wrong. What is your message to conservative vote rs what is your message to conservative voters who voted this government in for the first time in the north who wa nt for the first time in the north who want new out of downing street and out of this government . What is my message to them . Well, i think. Ive made mistakes in how ive dealt with this, all sorts of things in government, i dont think i made a mistake about these 14 days that are in question. And i would urge. I would stress to people that they should not believe everything they read in the newspapers, or everything they see on tv, because lots of the things
that are reported not in fact the case. I hope that ive set out today what the actual facts of it are, and i hope that people will think, even if they disagree with me, that i behaved reasonably in these circumstances. Anybody else like to ask any questions . Could you just go back to what you said about Barnard Castle . Back to what you said about Barnard Castle . A inaudible. Well, after recovering from this disease myjob, one of thejobs, my job is one of the jobs which say you should go back to work if you can do. Well, with respect, i think it is very relevant, because i was
allowed to drive back to london and go back to work. You said your vision. Inaudible then, you didnt just go for a drive, you went to a beautiful nature spot. |j just go for a drive, you went to a beautiful nature spot. I think, to beautiful nature spot. I think, to be honest, the state that everyone was in, it is nothing to do with a beauty spot, and contrary to lots of the reports, i wasnt sightseeing, i did not go to the castle, i wasnt looking around, there are lots of things that have been said about this that are not true. We just went for a test drive, drove east, this that are not true. We just went fora test drive, drove east, east south. And ended up pulling in by the side of the road, by a river, on the side of the road, by a river, on the outskirts of town, and my wife andi the outskirts of town, and my wife and i discussed it and said,
the outskirts of town, and my wife and i discussed itand said, ok, you can drive, this feels safe, lets go back, and go back to work. As i say, i was entitled to go back to work, i was encouraged to go back to work, i think it was the right thing to do. But i think it is also reasonable to try and do it safely. For everybody else on the road as well. Isnt the fundamental point that this is not really about legality, it is about the extent to which all of us. About how to implement the rules. I have spoken to scientists and they are very, very worried about what you have done, by your example. If you have done, by your example. If you feel that there are circumstances, special
circumstances, special circumstances, you dont have to follow the rules. For example, quite soon, many of us are going to be getting a telephone call from a contact racer, saying, you have been in contact with somebody who has got it, and stay at home for 14 days. Many people will say, i have not got symptoms, it might be money, my family is going to be put at risk, i am just going to follow my own judgment. And if people do that, Contact Tracing is not going to stop the spread of this virus. So, yes, it is true that various scientists have said, well, we think that what mrcummings did might have said, well, we think that what mr cummings did might cause problems. But i would stress that a lot of the things which they think i did,i lot of the things which they think i did, idid lot of the things which they think i did, i did not do. But you did exercisejudgment. Did, i did not do. But you did exercise judgment. Yes, did, i did not do. But you did exercisejudgment. Yes, but did, i did not do. But you did exercise judgment. Yes, but with great respect, robert, you are allowed to exercise judgment. The
rules explicitly say that, as i stressed to you before, the rules explicitly say that when youre living with small children, you have to exercise yourjudgment in that situation. That is what the rules say. The rules are not millions of pages long explaining exactly what you do in every possible circumstance, and if you try to write rules like that, they could easily cause more trouble rather than less trouble. So of course, people have to makejudgements than less trouble. So of course, people have to make judgements about these things. Some of the people who said that what i did is encouraging people to behave badly are doing so thinking that as per various media reports, that i went to stay with my pa rents. Reports, that i went to stay with my parents. I did not in any meaningful sense stay with my parents, i was not in the same house as my parents, i never went in the same house as my pa rents, i never went in the same house as my parents, its not true to say that i went to visit my parents, it is not true to say that my parents help with childcare. All of these things have been reported. That is not what
happened. If youre on the kind of contract where you dont turn up to work, you dont get paid, you may say, well, iam work, you dont get paid, you may say, well, i am going to ignore the isolation, because it is going to cost me money. Well, with respect, that situation does not apply to me, and thats not what i was saying. No, it doesnt apply to you, but what i am saying is, the moment you introduce an element of, i have got to protect my family, the risks come that less clear and obvious. But as i stress, robert, that less clear and obvious. But as istress, robert, with that less clear and obvious. But as i stress, robert, with great respect, i am i stress, robert, with great respect, iam not i stress, robert, with great respect, i am not introducing an element of discretion orjudgment, the rules necessitate that you exercise. If you look at the actual official rules on the nhs website, you cant do anything but exercise judge in these circumstances with a small child. It doesnt go into lots of different circumstances and say what to do. There is no regulation covering the situation that i found myself in on friday night. I had to
exercisejudgment myself in on friday night. I had to exercise judgment about what to do, weighing up all of these Different Things. Ok, thank you very much, everybody. Take care. Studio so, there we are, dunnett cummings, ending that very long News Conference, more than an hour, in fa ct, conference, more than an hour, in fact, in the garden of downing street, in shirtsleeves, he made a statement about his journey to durham with his wife and son, and then took questions from the journalists mother you can see them in the garden of downing street. Some pretty hostile questions amongst them. And he defended his decision to drive to County Durham with his wife and child despite the coronavirus restrictions. He says he believes he behaved reasonably, and does not regret what he did. Now, he also said that the rules say, when youre living with small children, youre living with small children, you can exercise your own judgment. He says, he has not considered resigning, he said he made the journey to his parents home in cou nty journey to his parents home in County Durham because of fears over a lack of childcare if he became incapacitated, but also because he had fears for his familys safety if they were in their london home. Mr cummings said he did not look for childcare arrangements in london and he did not check with the Prime Minister before he made that journey, something he says may have been a mistake. He did confirm that he did, once he was in durham at his pa re nts he did, once he was in durham at his parents property, he did, with his wife and child, drive to Barnard Castle, about half an hour away. That was simply to make sure that he was able to make the journey back to london, that he was safe to make that journey, it was london, that he was safe to make thatjourney, it was a sort of test drive, he said. So, that was what Dominic Cummings has been saying. What has been the reaction so far while hes been talking, from within the conservative party . We already heard for the mp for thirsk and malton, kevin hollinrake, who called
ita malton, kevin hollinrake, who called it a detailed and fair expiration for events, and went on to say, in my view, time to move on. The mp for sherwood and the chief whip, called it. Time to move on and focus on solving this Massive National challenge of covid i9. And we also had this tweet from simon clarke mp, the minister for regional growth and local government. Well, lets get some analysis from our chief political correspondent, vicki young, who is at downing street. Quite an extraordinary political spittle, it has to be said for club chief advisor to the Prime Minister giving a very long,
detailed statement in the garden of downing street and really being interrogated by the journalists . Yes, something im sure he would have hated having to do, and the fa ct have hated having to do, and the fact that he has had to explain himself i think is recognition that there is a problem here. So, he has had to give more detail, but i think striking that overall, he says he has no regrets about what he did, that he hasnt considered resigning, he accused the media of fuelling anger by printing and talking about false stories, although a lot of what was in the Public Domain he has confirmed today. And saying that he thinks he acted reasonably and sensibly and used hisjudgment. And i think that is the core here, to all of this. He talked about the reams of guidelines but said people have to use their common sense, suggesting that they have to exercise theirjudgment. I think a lot of people watching this might accept that he hasnt broken the law broken the rules, but they may well
think that actually, overall of these weeks, theyve been interpreting them far too strictly, because, if youre allowed to do this and it doesnt break the rules, then why havent other people been doing it . He talked about exceptional circumstances, again, i think a lot of people would have said, well, we were in those circumstances as well, and we didnt behave like this. And on the detail of it all, i think there are still some issues here, particularly that other trip that he made, when he went to Barnard Castle, talking about driving to test his eyesight. Now, i think that really well because a few people to raise their eyebrows, about all of that, that seems like a strange them to do. Now, he may win plaudits for being so open, for putting himself out there to expand himself, taking detailed questions from journalists, whether it is changing ones mind on what they feel about this is another matter, and ultimately, of course, it is only the Prime Ministers opinion that matters, because he is the one who decides whether or not he will stay in his job. And Boris Johnson tried to defend him
yesterday at that News Conference but mrcummings yesterday at that News Conference but mr cummings effectively said at the beginning that he had been sent out there, or certainly he and the Prime Minister and others in downing street had agreed, that the only way to try to defuse this whole extraordinary row was for him to go out there and face the music . Yes, and the Prime Minister apparently said to him that he should go and say to people directly, and talk to them directly and explain how he had explained it to the Prime Minister himself. And i think there is another issue here, which is that its not really fair on other cabinet ministers to have to go out and defend Dominic Cummings, when they havent spoken to him themselves. That is not really their job. Theyve got other things that they want to be doing. So, they oversee decided that strategy was better. But this story has been around, actually, behind the scenes, not that we knew about it, but the daily mirror and the guardian have been working on this for several weeks, theyve been asking questions and not getting any response from downing street. And this idea that Dominic Cummings talked about confusion about some of the things
that had been said, well i think the other slight problem was that he didnt come out with a statement on friday when this broke, neither did downing street, nothing formal, for quite a few hours. So i think he does accept it would have been far better if he had come out and said some of this at the beginning. But clearly he thinks the people have already made up their minds, and some people have got it in for him but actually he may not be able to change their minds at all. But he feels that by explaining himself, it might help and people might see things from a different perspective. He talks about the very competitive situation he was in and trying to explain how he acted in a way that he felt was the least risk to other people, making clear at all stages that he didnt go close to other people and that he did socially distance, didnt go near his parents and didnt go near other people. For the moment, thank you very much. Outside number 10 downing street. Lets get some more reaction from jerryjones, who we were talking to before the News Conference. Former
adviser to theresa may. And also alex two, former adviser to David Cameron. Jerryjones, first of all, you watched it all, what did you make of that, was that a convincing performance, do you think, from dummett cummings . It was clearly a difficult experience for him, it was very long and nobody could doubt the fa ct very long and nobody could doubt the fact that he did answer every single question that was put to him. I think it will have bought him some time and you could see that the chief whip and other senior figures within the conservative party, showing a lead, that they now hope that other mps will follow, in terms of saying that this was a persuasive argument from Dominic Cummings. I do wonder how much of this could have been avoided, though, if he had not just answered some straightforward questions rather earlier. He blames the media, clearly feels very aggrieved about a bunch of stories that he you are false. Well, you only have to think back, for example, to Alastair Campbells labour, new labour media machine, one of the first rules they put in
place was that of rapid rebuttal. If somebody says something that is wrong, get out and correct it. Whereas the current administrations approach seems to be dictated by Dominic Cummings, which isjust ignore it, rise above it, treat it with, as some of those journalists, clearly very angry journalists, some of them, feel that they have been treated and marginalised in a way that doesnt show them the sort of respect that their questions deserved. Alex, do you agree with that, downing street could have answered these questions ages ago . Could have done and probably should have done. We we re done and probably should have done. We were discussing it before he did the conference and i thought he needed to do it. I thought he did it extremely well and i think he answered the questions that needed to be answered. I found it compelling, i dont think there are questions that remain to be asked. He answered everything that was
asked of him. They must have been quite frustrating, questions repeated by journalists quite frustrating, questions repeated byjournalists who wanted to ask the same question that had been asked ten times before him. He held his tongue and answered every one of those questions. In terms of the specifics of what he said, he confirmed he did go to Barnard Castle, he drove the two test his driving, test his eyesight, effectively, he was worried about his eyesight. Vicki young was saying it might strike people as strange that you would go for a drive to test your eyesight with your wife and child, potentially if youre eyesight wasnt good, putting other road users in some danger . Some of the more colourful elements in the story are going to be pulled over by his critics. That is one that is causing a degree of merriment and disbelief already on social media. Dou btless, disbelief already on social media. Doubtless, particularly who dont have any great fondness for Dominic Cummings or his argument. When he was asked about his second home, it is not a nice place to be, a bunch of concrete blocks. Again, many people would give their eye teeth to have a second home of any sort they could repair to in a situation of stress, as Dominic Cummings found himself in. In general, i think the problem is this has gone far enough that positions on both sides are really entrenched. I dont think he will have persuaded too many people, the central allegation against him ata time the central allegation against him at a time we are all being told to stay at home, he travelled nearly 300 miles, is proven and acknowledges to be correct. He never responded to the question after that over a series of weeks. I think this has got some way to run and i think it means it will be a drawn out
agony, a distraction for the government at the time they need, and we as a population need it least. The only crumb of good news, by the end of that News Conference, it was getting quite boring. I would think that he and his colleagues would suggest that if they can bore the media to death, this will be a feeding frenzy for the next 48 hour spot if they can play a straight bat are no new revelations can come to light, they can this out. But it will be really distracting, really damaging and the last thing the Prime Minister needs and the last thing we need as a country. Prime Minister needs and the last thing we need as a country. I found it pretty absorbing. Alex, do you think he will have persuaded some of his critics that he did the right thing . Yes, i do. Furthermore, the very nature of any individual being ganged up on by a group means they
attract sympathy. It is difficult not to feel sympathy for an individual standing before a crowd that dislikes him. Jerry is right, it is clear some of these journalists were very angry and have taken it personally and they have not been treated with enough respect. I would think some of this has demonstrated how you can rise above it and should ignore journalist and seek to get his message to the country. I feel a bit like i have been booked to be a talking head in the post match analysis for the salem witch trials. Some of these people just absolutely hate him. I dont mean the people who chase him down the street, i mean some of the people in that garden as well. Ok, alex dean, former adviser to David Cameron and jerryjones, former adviser to
theresa may. That News Conference from Dominic Cummings in downing street. We can get some reaction now from the acting leader of the liberal democrats, ed davey. Thank you for being with us. What did you make of Dominic Cummings Central Defence that he didnt break the rules . Defence that he didnt break the rules . The rule set if you are living with a small child you can exercise your own judgment and that is what he did . I wasnt convinced at all. I think he made the situation worse, from not giving any apology, saying he didnt regret anything and then he went test driving to say he worried about his eyesight. Come on then he said he wa nted eyesight. Come on then he said he wanted to go back to work even though his wife had contracted covid and thats against the rules, you are supposed to self isolate. I think the millions of people who made huge sacrifices to keep to the rules, probably millions who are watching will actually be deeply
worried that the Prime Ministers chief adviser did break the rules andi chief adviser did break the rules and i think they will be asking questions about that and they will be pretty angry. The Prime Minister now has got to decide what to do. This is a question over the Prime Ministersjudgment. When this is a question over the Prime Ministers judgment. When his closest adviser has clearly breached the rules, there is no doubt about it, it is simple, he should go. He says he didnt break the rules, that is the whole point. Well he is reading different rules from the rest of us. Maybe he didnt break the rule he thought applied to him, but he certainly broke the rules that apply to the rest of us. And that apply to the rest of us. And thatis that apply to the rest of us. And that is the problem. This is very serious. We are in a national Public Health crisis, the governments m essa 9 es Health Crisis, the governments messages and Public Health have to be listened to. You need the country to follow that advice. But why would people do that if the people at the very top are breaking those rules . The Prime Minister doesnt act now, frankly, he is not fit to lead the country during this crisis. What did you make of alex dean saying there, the former adviser to David Cameron, it is like the salem witch trials, a witch hunt and people piling on unnecessary pressure on unnecessary pressure onto Dominic Cummings . unnecessary pressure on unnecessary pressure onto Dominic Cummings . I am afraid alex isnt getting the e mails and Text Messages many mps are getting from ordinary people. If you listen to some of the News Programme and looking at the opinion polls are what ordinary people are thinking, they are alarmed they make all the sacrifices, didnt see their loved ones, didnt go to family gatherings like weddings all the funerals of their nearest and dearest and they stuck to the rules, as they were instructed to by the Prime Minister, but Dominic Cummings didnt. I think alex is trying to give some breathing room for his friends. Well, iam give some breathing room for his friends. Well, i am sorry, that will not wash. It is really clear that
the rules were broken and it is really clear that Dominic Cummings should go. Do you give him credit at least for hosting that News Conference, for sitting there for more than an hour and taking some hostile questions from journalists . You know, i feel sympathy hostile questions from journalists . You know, ifeel sympathy for individuals, whether they have got covid orchids they are are worrying about whether they are trying to a nswer about whether they are trying to answer difficult questions. That is not the issue. The country is in a huge crisis and we need to focus on getting the testing, tracing an isolation strategy to ease the lockdown. We need to focus on getting the ppe kit to the front line staff and care staff. We need to deal with the tragedy going on in our care homes. That is what we need to be doing. Unfortunately, mr cummings has become a complete destruction and the Prime Ministers macro failure to act is making dealing with coronavirus worse. I
hope conservative mps will now stand up. Some of them have been pretty brave in the last few days, but i dont think the Prime Minister will listen to anyone else other than conservative mps going to the wits office and saying, this is unacceptable. It is the Prime Ministersjudgment now unacceptable. It is the Prime Ministers judgment now that is on the line. If he continues to support Dominic Cummings and not the mood of the people who made the sacrifice, i am afraid his colleagues on the conservative backbenchers will want to ask, is this the man to lead the country . Mr cummings did say he may have made a mistake in a couple of areas, for example, not telling the Prime Minister before making the journey. But on the whole he was unrepentant, i dont regret what i did,i unrepentant, i dont regret what i did, i havent offered to resign, what i did was reasonable. He was askedif what i did was reasonable. He was asked if you wanted to apologise to the british people and he didnt. What do you make of that . the british people and he didnt. What do you make of that . I thought the lack of contrition suggested a degree of arrogance that is
alarming. I would degree of arrogance that is alarming. Iwould have degree of arrogance that is alarming. I would have thought he would have listened to people who had been responding to the news reports and i thought he would be worried that his actions had caused real confusion. At a time when we need clarity and we need certainty. But there was none of that from mr cummings. Ithink but there was none of that from mr cummings. I think some humility and contrition, an apology was the least he could have done. Personally, i think he should have resigned because he remaining imposed is getting in the way of the government tackling this Health Crisis our country is facing. Ed davey, of the liberal democrats, thank you for your time. You are watching bbc news. Lets speak to professorjohnathan ball, professor of molecular virology at the university of nottingham, reaction from him as well. What did you make of what mr
cummings had to say . Quite frankly, it was pretty astounding. Not least the fact his admission that he hadnt explored childcare provision from people who live in and around london. It is somewhat odd and then to make the preference to travel more than 200 miles up, one would assume fast roads and then putting other people at risk. Notjust other road users, but if he was involved in an accident and had to stop and seek medical care, he is putting other people at risk. It was pretty astounding and it is a shame it is a continuing distraction from the important coronavirus issues that surround us at the moment. He said people are angry and there is understandable anger about what he did because it is based on media misreporting . I dont think it is, if you think about the single journey made north because that was
a decision he personally made, it was a preference. Lets face that, he preferred to make thatjourney at a time when so many other people, thousands, if not of thousands of people up and down the country in similar positions who are doing the right thing and staying at home and self isolating for the 14 days are not going out and not travelling to second homes to seek the tranquillity of the north east. Second homes to seek the tranquillity of the northeast. He said, actually he didnt break the rules because the rule say if you are living with a small child you can exercise your discretion, what do you think of that . If that is how the rules stand, that is how he has interpreted them and if that is the correct interpretation, i am not a Law Enforcement officer but it goes against the spirit of the guidance which is to self isolate and not put other people at risk. By making that journey north he has put people at risk on the journey. If not when he
arrived, he has self isolated. It is the journey from london to the north east which is, to my mind, pretty selfish. He is not apologising, he says he doesnt regret what he did. Do you think, this is a wider question, it will affect the way the public in future obey or disobey the guidance they are giving to the rest of this Coronavirus Crisis . I think once you start introducing grey areas, areas that are open to your own personal interpretation, then it is bound to a road that guidance. It is bound to lack clarity, so people can think, if it doesnt apply to him, it doesnt apply to me. It was pretty inconvenient, i needed to look after this or do something for my wife, my children or my family, than u nfortu nately children or my family, than unfortunately it does make it very difficult to enforce that. Do you think what he said today in the News Conference in downing street, will that have persuaded or convinced any
of his critics that maybe they were wrong and he was right . of his critics that maybe they were wrong and he was right . I question how it was four, the intended audience . I suspect a few disenchanted and disgruntled conservative mps and may be conservative mps and may be conservative supporters. I think to most people up and down the country, they would see it for what it is, which is trying to wriggle out of what was an incredibly bad decision on his part. I am slightly astounded that he claims his return back to work when he was suffering, or thought he had some eyesight problems, was to help with the science. I thought we had some excellent scientists leading the response and i am not sure he had the same scientific credentials, but maybe i am wrong. Professor johnathan ball, professor of molecular virology at the university of nottingham, thank you for talking to us and giving us your reaction. We can get more from harry lambert, special correspondent for the new
statesman. What did you make of it . Well, i think a big what did you make of it . Well, i thinka big part what did you make of it . Well, i think a big part of what Dominic Cummings was saying this afternoon was his idea that the media was at fault, this idea of the false narrative. I think that really needs to be pushed back against, because the reality is, we only got this information today because the media pursued the story. The typical reaction, or attitude, from pursued the story. The typical reaction, orattitude, from no 10 towards the media, has been to ignore reporters, and often even to give them false information. Cummings himself once said to me that the media were approximately 100 irrelevant to his goals. And the fact is, today, they arent irrelevant to his goals, today, he needs to speak to us, because he has left so many reporters in the dark. I twice spoke to his parents this weekend and tried to understand the situation better, and i think todays conference is really 72
hours later than it should have been, if not many weeks late. Where getting answers but were getting them very slowly. And i think his transparency this afternoon, or at least suppose a transparency, just puts into relief the way that he has performed throughout this crisis, which is to say very little, and hope the situation goes away. But today he said a lot, not a little, a lot, that was a News Conference that was a very lot, that was a News Conference that was a very long, lot, that was a News Conference that was a very long, more lot, that was a News Conference that was a very long, more than an hour, it was slightly delayed, but once it got going, it lasted more than an hour, he made a long statement, then he was questioned at huge links, interrogated, really, by journalists, so he couldnt have been more full and frank today . Im not sure about that, i think we should put him under a real investigation, if you think that this is everything. There are many, many questions still left to be answered, and we cant suggest that in halfan answered, and we cant suggest that in half an hour, we have got through those facts. What are the questions you would still want to see answered, that you dont feel he
managed to answer this afternoon . For a start, the very idea that the guidance has this exception that allowed cummings the discretion to make this decision is not clear at all. If you look at the guidance in more detail, the general exception that hes claiming isnt really there. Orat that hes claiming isnt really there. Or at least it is highly contestable. So, there is much more to this story than were getting. The question is whether no 10 feel able to push past the reality, and the reality is that the next election is four years away. So the calculus perhaps is that they can weather this storm and by the time weather this storm and by the time we all cast votes in 2024, Dominic Cummings will not be not only not on the ballot, but he wont be in no 10. Sol the ballot, but he wont be in no 10. So i think the key question is, how long does this last . For how long can Boris Johnson how long does this last . For how long can borisjohnson ignore the pressure that he continues to be under . Because the story is not over. And apart from the rights and wrongs of it, and we can continue to debate those, from a pr point of view, do you think the government got this badly wrong .
view, do you think the government got this badly wrong . I do, and i think that is the key message here. Which i think i was emphasising at the top here, that the way this no 10 operation has approached the press has been deeply ineffective, and has only led to the kind of situation that Dominic Cummings is now blaming the media for. If you do not inform anyone about where you are why you went there, or the reasons why you did something, then the press will naturally. If there are reports of you being in durham, they will report that and they will try to understand why you were there. If he had come out on saturday and explained the situation with the clarity that we seem to have got today, then that would have beena very have got today, then that would have been a very different situation. So i hope the no 10 operation learns from this instance, and in future crises, decides to be up front early in the process of. Harry lumber, special correspondent at the new statesman, good to talk to you, thank you very much. And we can talk to Lisa Mckenzie, who is a sociology
rift Research Fellow at the London School of economics, who is in durham. Thank you very much indeed for being with us. What did you make of what Dominic Cummings had to say, ori of what Dominic Cummings had to say, or i suppose the really important question is, do you think you will have convinced his critics out there around the country that actually, he did do the right thing by driving his family up to durham . Well, actually, i work at the university of durham now, i am actually, i work at the university of durham now, iam not actually, i work at the university of durham now, i am not at the lse anymore, so i am a lecturer at the university of durham, and i live in durham now. Ive been talking to a lot of my neighbours, actually, today, about what they think about Dominic Cummings, you know what most people are thinking is, yeah, hes a rich, elite man, and hes done whatever he wanted to do. Thats not quite big news, for most people. Most people already know that this is what happens with politicians, elite media people, you no, they set the rules, they dont always, the
rules dont always apply to them. So, i dont think that is big news, but i think what people are most worried about, working class people in this country, they are worried about rent, they re in this country, they are worried about rent, theyre worried about the redundancy letters and e mails that are properly going to come through in a few weeks. So i think one of the things that has been said today about the media, im not sure why they make it such a massive deal about this, if only they were making such a massive deal about the probably millions of people who are going to be struggling to pay rent and getting redundancy notices. So, you think this is a. You dont think the media should be making so much of this story at all . Its not that they shouldnt be making so much of it, i think the last guest said, Dominic Cummings has said. My said, Dominic Cummings has said. My and not a media person, im just a lecturer at durham university, and i were on working class communities throughout the country, so, my take
on this is, its not personal. So, for the guy that was just on earlier, who said, Dominic Cummings has said that the media is 100 irrelevant. You no, ithink has said that the media is 100 irrelevant. You no, i think they perhaps need some reflectivity in this, are they going for Dominic Cummings, because he doesnt like them rather than perhaps thinking about this in a wider context, where, yes, ithink about this in a wider context, where, yes, i think people are annoyed that hes done whatever he wa nts, annoyed that hes done whatever he wants, but im going to be really honest now, most people in this country are not shocked that an elite, rich man does whatever he wa nts to elite, rich man does whatever he wants to do. We have got bigger problems right now. All right, Lisa Mckenzie from durham university, many things indeed for giving us your take. So, lets just many things indeed for giving us yourtake. So, letsjust remind ourselves now of some of the key points from that News Conference that weve just had from Dominic Cummings in the garden of number 10 downing street. Dominic cummings, chief advisor to the Prime Minister. And he told reporters that he knows that people are angry but he does
not regret what he did, he referred to his trip to County Durham during the lockdown whilst he and his wife we re the lockdown whilst he and his wife were ill with suspected coronavirus and he said he believes that in all circumstances, he did behave reasonably and legally, and that he has not offered his resignation to the Prime Minister. Now, he also confirmed that he, his wife and child, did travel to durham tuesday in what he describes as an isolated cottage on his fathers farm, 50 metres away from his parents. He said they did not stop during that journey north, and that once at the property in durham, he had no direct contact with any of his family. His sister dropped shopping outside their property instead. But he did admit he did not tell the Prime Minister, borisjohnson, admit he did not tell the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, before admit he did not tell the Prime Minister, borisjohnson, before he made that journey. He minister, borisjohnson, before he made thatjourney. He said in hindsight that might have been a mistake. Mrcummings hindsight that might have been a mistake. Mr cummings explained that before returning to london, he and his wife and child did take a 30
mile round trip to Barnard Castle. Now, that, he said, was a means of testing if he was well enough and safe enough to drive following some issues with his eyesight whilst he had been ill. He said it was reasonable to take a short drive to see if i was fit to return to london. He went on to deny that he had returned to durham later on in april, despite an eyewitness account. He said that was absolutely not true. He said he could prove his location using photographs and data on his phone. The truth is that i had argued for lockdown, i did not oppose it. But these are stories created a very bad atmosphere around my home. I was subject to threats of violence, people came to my house shouting threats, there were posts on social media encouraging attacks, many people on tv showed pictures of my house. I was worried that given the severity of this emergency, this
situation would get worse and i was worried about the possibility of leaving my wife and child at home or a and often into the night while i work in no 10. I thought the best thing to do in the circumstances was to drive to an isolated cottage on my fathers farm. At this farm, my pa rents my fathers farm. At this farm, my parents live in one house, my sister and her two children live in another house, and there is a separate cottage roughly 50 metres away from either of them. My tentative conclusion on the friday evening was this. If we are both unable to look after our child and under my sister or nieces can look after him. My nieces are 17 and 20, young enough to be in the safest category. They had extremely kindly volunteered to do so if needed. But i thought if i do so if needed. But i thought if i do not develop symptoms, and there isa do not develop symptoms, and there is a testing regime in place at work, i would is a testing regime in place at work, iwould be is a testing regime in place at work, i would be returned to work if i tested negative. In that situation, i could leave my wife and child behind in a safe place. Safe
with support from family for shopping emergencies, safe in the sense of my home becoming a target and safe from everybody else because they are completely isolated on a farm and could not infect anybody. Contrary to some media reports, there are no neighbours in the normal sense of the word, the nearest other homes are roughly half a mile away. So in this scenario i thought that they could stay there for a few weeks, i could go back to work, help colleagues and everybody including the general public would be safe. I did not ask the Prime Minister about this decision. He was ill himself and he had huge problems to deal with. Every day, i have to exercise myjudgment to deal with. Every day, i have to exercise my judgment about things like this and decide what to discuss with him. I thought that i would speak to him when the situation clarified over the coming days, including whether or not i had symptoms and whether there were tests available. Arguably, this was a mistake, and i understand that some will say that i should have spoken to the Prime Minister before deciding what to do. So, i drove the three of us up to durham that night
arriving roughly at midnight. I did not stop on the way. When i worked the next morning, saturday the 28th of march, i was in pain and clearly had covid some terms, including a bad headache and a serious fever. Clearly, i could not return to work any time soon. For a day or two, we we re any time soon. For a day or two, we were both ill. I was in bed, my wife was ill but not ill enough that she needed emergency help. I got worse, she got better. During the night of thursday the 2nd of april, my child woke up, he threw up and had a bad fever. He was very distressed. We took medical advice which was to call 999, an ambulance wasnt sent, they assessed my child and said he was going to hospital. I could barely stand up, my wife went with him in the ambulance, i stayed at home, he stayed the night in the hospital. In the morning, my wife called to say that he had recovered, seemed back to normal, doctors had tested him for covid and said that they should return home. There were no taxis. There were no taxis, i
drove to the hospital, picked them up drove to the hospital, picked them up then returned home. I did not leave the car or have any contact with anybody at any point on this short trip. The hospitals roughly five miles or something away, two miles, three miles, four miles, Something Like that. A few days later, the hospital said that he tested negative. On sunday the 12th of april, 15 days after i had first displayed symptoms, i decided to return to work. My wife was very worried, particularly given my eyesight had seemed to have been affected by the disease. She did not wa nt to affected by the disease. She did not want to risk the nearly 300 mile drive with our child, given how ill i had been. We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if i could drive safely. We drove for roughly half an hour and ended up on the outskirts of Barnard Castle town. We did not visit the castle, we did not walk around the town. We parked by a river. My wife and i
discussed the situation, we agreed that i could drive safely, we should turn around and go home. Ifelt a bit sick. We walked about 10 15 metres from the car to the riverbank nearby. We sat there for about 15 minutes, we had no interactions with anybody. I felt better, minutes, we had no interactions with anybody. Ifelt better, we returned to the car. An elderly gentleman walking nearby appeared to recognise me. My wife wished him happy easter from a distance but we had no other interaction. We headed home. On the way home, our child needed the toilet, he was in the backseat of the car. We pulled over to the side of the road, my wife and child jumped out into the woods by the side of the road. They were briefly outside, i brieflyjoined them, they played for a little bit and then i got out of the car and went outside and we were briefly in the woods. We saw some people at a distance but at no point did we break any social distancing rules. We then got back
in the carand distancing rules. We then got back in the car and went home. We agreed that if i continued to improve, then the next day we should return to london and i would go back to work. We returned to london on the evening of monday the 13th of april, easter monday. I went back to work in number ten the next morning. At no point between arriving and leaving durham did any of the three of us enter my parents house or my sisters house. Our only exchanges we re sisters house. Our only exchanges were shouted conversations at a distance. I can understand that some people will argue that i should have stayed at my home in london throughout. I understand these views, i know the intense hardship and sacrifice that the entire country has had to go through. However, i respectfully disagree. The legal rules inevitably do not cover a ll the legal rules inevitably do not cover all circumstances, including those that i found myself in. I thought, and i think today, that the rules, including those regarding small children and extreme circumstances, allowed me to exercise myjudgment circumstances, allowed me to exercise my judgment about the situation i found myself in,
including the way that my london home had become a target. With all of the capacity of the situation, i accept that there is room for reasonable disagreement about this. Ican reasonable disagreement about this. I can also understand some people think i should not have driven at all anywhere. I had taken expert medical advice. It was 15 days after symptoms and i had been told i could return to work and employ childcare. It was reasonable to make a shortjourney before embarking on a five hour drive. The alternative was to stay in durham rather than go back to work. I believe i made the right judgments, i can understand people may disagree with that. I have explained all the above to the Prime Minister. At some point during the first week when we were both sick and in bed, i mentioned to him what i had done. Unsurprisingly, given the condition that we were in, neither of us remember the
conversation in any detail. That was Dominic Cummings in his hour long news co nfe re nce Dominic Cummings in his hour long News Conference in the garden at downing street. He was interrogated by journalist. Lets downing street. He was interrogated byjournalist. Lets talk to some journalists now. What did you make of what Dominic Cummings had to say, he didnt apologise or say he regretted what he done, he blamed the media for misreporting but he did seek to explain why he did what he did . I felt it was an extraordinary press conference. It was extraordinary he didnt apologise, or show contrition. Was extraordinary he didnt apologise, orshow contrition. He did givea apologise, orshow contrition. He did give a very full account of his actions, but that account raised a huge number of questions. He says he didnt break the guidelines and he is not sorry about what he did. I think it is clear looking at his account, it looks like he did break the guidelines. Why did he go back
to work at number ten when he thought he had contracted covid. Why did he drive 260 miles across the country . If you have problems with your eyesight, why would you do a 30 mile test drive with your wife and child in the car . What happens if your eyesight deteriorates and he was stuck out, when you shouldnt be out anyway, with your wife and child in the car. Ijust dont think it was very in the car. Ijust dont think it was very convincing as an account. If we take a step back, if we leave the details of what happened, what is extraordinary about this, we had an advisor, the Prime Ministers top adviser giving a press conference foran adviser giving a press conference for an hour, that is longer than Government Press conferences during this crisis. It shows a breathtaking level of arrogance and self regard. Dominic cummings has been occupying the news agenda of this country for the news agenda of this country for the last three days, as we seek to get information about whether he broke the rules or not. Really important questions for the press to
ask. It has distracted the machinery of government from the most pressing issue at hand, which is the governments response to this pandemic. Not only that it has muddied the message, muddied the governments Public Health messaging and people are more confused as a result and lies will be put at risk. Ijust cannot result and lies will be put at risk. I just cannot understand, result and lies will be put at risk. Ijust cannot understand, even if Dominic Cummings thinks what he did was right, i think it is ratcheting up was right, i think it is ratcheting up the debate. Why wouldnt you come in the national instincts and for the public good, why didnt he say, idid the public good, why didnt he say, i did these things, i think i was right, but i appreciate the public think i was wrong, i have caused too much controversy and im stepping down. That is absolutely the right thing and that is what he should have done. Do you think he will get credit, at the very least, for facing the music, he was therefore more than an hour and facing some hostile interrogation from the journalists in the garden . M
hostile interrogation from the journalists in the garden . It was gripping stuff, it was a bit like watching the star witness all the defendant in a massive old bailey trial, standing in the dock being interrogated by a qc. The rose garden of course, was great scene political dramas. And the last one i can remember is ten years ago and David Cameron and nick clegg were in there. The government have thrown there. The government have thrown the kitchen sink at this, they have brought absolutely every detail out and that is the clear strategy. There was an element of playing the sympathy card. There were bits when Dominic Cummings look quite contrite, look at me, i have got a sick child, he was taken to hospital, my wife was ill and i was help trying to run the country. Put yourself in my shoes. Im not sure that will wash with everybody, it might win some people who were undecided over. But he has brought through, he has nailed some of the
inaccuracies such as the second trip that he took from london, the bluebell woods and the police, one or two of those have been nailed but a lot of other cans have been open. Why go on a 30 mile test drive and if your eyesight is not good, why are you even thinking of driving . Why could his wife not driving the first place, nobody asked that question whether his wife was able to drive . A lot of questions to be answered and because i think he has thrown everything at this, if this doesnt work, the spotlight turns on borisjohnson. Because Dominic Cummings admitted a couple of weeks ago he told borisjohnson about this, so the Prime Minister agreement to this trip had been given. So the press conference we going to hear shortly inside number ten with the Prime Minister, it is a very, very high stakes press co nfe re nce very, very high stakes press conference now. What do you make of that, what happens with politically
inside number ten now . He said he hasnt offered his resignation and does not intend to. Borisjohnson is standing by him, what is the political price the Prime Minister will pay, do you think . There are still a lot of very angry people . think it is potentially a huge price. Some people have said it is just a westminster bubble issue and no one else outside the s w one area ca res no one else outside the s w one area cares about this and i just dont think it is true. I think a lot of people up and down the country are very angry. You have got conservative backbench mps who have made their feelings clear. They say they are getting a lot of feedback from constituents. I think that the Prime Minister will be hoping it is, lets ride the storm out and see if it goes away, i have got a majority of 80. But i think the serious question he has to answer, and i think that is so strange about this, this episode is doing a lot of damage to the government politically. Why hasnt boris
johnson asked for Dominic Cummings resignation . Why has he defended Dominic Cummings to the point where it is undermining the Government Health communications and putting lives at risk . Why is borisjohnson so reliant on one man and one adviser . That has to be the question for borisjohnson. Adviser . That has to be the question for Boris Johnson. Many thanks to both of you for your time and analysis and lets go back to our chief political correspondent, vicki young, who has been with us throughout the afternoon. As the dust settles on that extraordinary piece of political theatre in the rose garden of downing street, where do you think this leaves Boris Johnson and his government . do you think this leaves Boris Johnson and his government . A lot of the facts we did already know about and a lot of the issues that were a problem for Dominic Cummings and the government are still there. It was interesting listening to mr cummings using his common sense, that people had to look at the guidelines and there were always exceptional circumstances. A lot of people
watching this will think, maybe i have been interpreting the rules far too strictly. And that is the danger, it undermines the message. 0f danger, it undermines the message. Of course Dominic Cummings can stay in hisjob, it is up to the Prime Minister to decide, but it is at what cost and a lot of tory mps were concerned about the Prime Minister standing by his adviser, but actually maybe losing the authority that he has and people looking at it and saying, this isnt the right thing that he should be doing. They will be weighing all of that up, there will be others that say mr cummings going out there and being transparent and answering as many questions as he could was the right thing to do. Although he probably should have done it a little bit earlier, rather than downing street saying we will not waste time answering some of these allegations because they are false. Overall, the problem is going to be with the guidelines, people now looking at them and saying, hang on a second,
these are more open than i thought and that could be a problem as we continue to do with the plan where people will be asked to isolate in the future and at one point, there might be more requirements for lockdown measures. So still a problem, i think for the government. But they will hope people will lose interest in this and it goes away. Although some of our commentators have suggested, although it answered some questions, many questions may be, it raised other questions like why did he and his family take that trip to Barnard Castle, supposedly to test his eyesight . Was that putting other road users at risk and so on . The point about this is, there are exceptional circumstances and it does say that, buried in a lot of these guidelines and most people are not reading them, they are relying on ministers, the Prime Ministers and scientists standing here every night and talking about it. They were not emphasising exceptional circumstances, the message was clear, stay at home and people did know what was being asked
of them. The reason you are asked to stay at home because it does get complicated. If you drive, you have to fill up with petrol, you might need to go to the toilet. All these things increase contact but Dominic Cummings said he was very careful and doesnt think he did anything that meant the illness was going to be transmitted. But again, i think there will be other people watching that and saying they would have liked a bit more contrition and they would have liked him to apologise for what he did. Many thanks, vicki young talking us through that extraordinary bit of political theatre in the garden of downing street. Huw edwards is here with the National News in the few minutes, but first a look at the weather. Hello there, we have had warm temperatures but the warmer temperatures but the warmer temperatures were in the south. We will see some of the warm air recirculate around the High Pressure and it wafts northwards. Temperatures for many will be rising
a few degrees. The top temperature today reached 27 degrees in teddington and that is just into the 80s fahrenheit. It felt warm in the sunshine and light winds and just down the road from teddington is how the sunny skies are locked in the hamilton area, about three miles away. Towards the north west of the uk it is clouded over in Northern Ireland and scotland through the afternoon and this cloud is a cold front and has been bringing rain across Northern Ireland and scotland. As it moves into our area of High Pressure over night, it wea ke ns how of High Pressure over night, it weakens how we could see a few patches of rain perhaps getting into Northern England and north wales but it wont amount to much. For many of us it will be dry over night and it will be a mild night, temperatures ten to 14 degrees. Tomorrow, the weather front continues southwards. Areas of cloud working in across england and wales and for some across central and eastern parts, andi across central and eastern parts, and i sunrise to start the day. Through the afternoon the cloud thins further so hazy spells getting through and it will be warm again
with temperatures in the low to mid 20s. For the far north of england, Northern Ireland and scotland there will be more sunshine around through the afternoon, fresher feel to the weather but still feeling warm in the sunshine. Highs of 17 to 20 celsius. On wednesday, the warmer air starts to recirculate and push northwards. This weather front could bring a few splashes of rain to Northern Ireland but not amounting to two much. The fresher air is still over central and northern scotland, but the humid air is in the south and that is where we will see sunshine and the warmer temperatures. Temperatures reaching 20 to 25 degrees with some of the warmeraircoming into 20 to 25 degrees with some of the warmer air coming into Northern Ireland through the afternoon. Into thursday, the warmer air pushes northwards. In scotland in glasgow towards the end of the week we could see temperatures up to 24 degrees and similar weather into the weekend ahead as well. Further south, across england and wales thats where we will likely see the highest temperatures and temperatures peaking at around 27 celsius later
on in the week in central england. The Prime Ministers top adviser, Dominic Cummings, denies doing anything wrong when he drove hundreds of miles to his parents home during the lockdown. In a News Conference at downing street, mr cummings said he did not regret his decision because of exceptional family circumstances, and rejected the idea that hed undermined the governments own instruction to stay home. In this very complex situation i tried to exercise my judgment the best i could. I believe that in all circumstances i behaved reasonably and legally, balancing the safety of my family and the extreme situation in numberio, and the Public Interest and effective government. Well have the latest on the statement by mr cummings and the reaction to it. Also on the programme. People in england make the most of the Bank Holiday Weather after some the lockdown restrictions were eased. Concern over a rising demand for childrens social services in england, as Vulnerable Children emerge from lockdown. And we talk to the syrian doctors helping the nhs in the fight against the pandemic. Good evening. The Prime Ministers top adviser, Dominic Cummings, has denied doing anything wrong when he drove to his parents home during the lockdown last month. In a News Conference at downing street a short while ago, mr cummings said he did not regret his decision to travel 260 miles from london to durham with his wife who was ill and their four year old son because he claimed none of their usual childcare
options were available
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