Hello, im katty kay in washington. Christian fraser is in london. Its 3pm here in washington the last polls closed 1a hours ago, and we still dont have a winner. Joe biden is now 32 Electoral College votes of winning the white house, while President Trump needs 58 to push him over the line. In the seven states the bbc is yet to project, the Biden Campaign is optimistic in enough of them that matter. But last night, mr trump also claimed victory although hes now said the margins he was winning in key states have dissappeared as if by magic. Whichever way the cookie crumbles, President Trump has already won three million more votes than he did in 2016. No blue wave materialised. Americas future still hangs in the balance. So lets go have a look at the board. It has changed significantly in the last few hours. When i left here at 9am, these key states in the midwest, wisconsin and michigan, we re midwest, wisconsin and michigan, were in the red column, as was pennsylvania, heavily. But through the course of the morning, as more and more of these mail in ballots have counted, they have been tipped towards joe have counted, they have been tipped towardsjoe biden. Have counted, they have been tipped towards joe biden. What have counted, they have been tipped towardsjoe biden. What i am good to do is take you through the map in an anticlockwise fashion, to get a clear idea were the race is. We are can assert in North Carolina, were 96 of that vote has already been counted, during a 27,000 votes to be counted, and Donald Trumps lee december lead is 70,000. We can say that one is leaning donald trump. George isa one is leaning donald trump. George is a different story, still quite a lot forjoe biden to do. He is 79,000 votes ahead, donald trump, and where the votes to count . They are in the atlanta suburbs, up in the sort of Northeast Corner of georgia, so in areas where democrats could do quite well. And remember, they are processing the absentee ballots, so when you look at the absentee ballots, you see that it heavily skews forjoe biden. I think it is leaning just slightly towards donald trump, but that one very much in the balance, 0k . Arizona is a different story. 0k, arizona, they have counted 88 of the vote. I am looking at my figures here, i can see theyre still around 15 of the vote to come in maricopa, which is the area around phoenix. It leans heavily towards joe biden, the area around phoenix. It leans heavily towardsjoe biden, 52 46. There is also some of the count on the border in pima county to vote, which heavily liens joe biden. The border in pima county to vote, which heavily liensjoe biden. What about nevada . Which heavily liensjoe biden. What about nevada . 2007000 votes still to count in the fatah, there are two big urban areas, there is clark cou nty big urban areas, there is clark county which essentially is las vegas, there is about 84 of the vote counted in las vegas. That means 53 45 to joe vote counted in las vegas. That means 53 45 tojoe biden. The other is reno, washoe county. They are counting that, it leans heavily towards joe counting that, it leans heavily towardsjoe biden. Counting that, it leans heavily towards joe biden. We counting that, it leans heavily towardsjoe biden. We are putting that slightly into the blue column, then. A lot to decide still in nevada, the data looking partey good. Wisconsin, 99 of the vote counted, our sister station cbs have just called this in the last 15 minutes, so we can probably put this in blue. It is within the margin, joe bidens lead is 20,000. That is under i , donald trump well within his rights legally to count for a recount, call for a recount in wisconsin, that is what he is going to do. Michigan, lets have a quick look at michigan. We have around 81,000 votes to count in michigan, and most of those are in wayne county, which is around detroit. That goes 67 31 for county, which is around detroit. That goes 67 31forjoe biden. 81 of the vote counted in wayne county, but if i show you the absentee ballot, processed today, they are processing through it, leans heavily towards joe processing through it, leans heavily towardsjoe biden, processing through it, leans heavily towards joe biden, so processing through it, leans heavily towardsjoe biden, so you see white michigan and pennsylvania, wejust can do pennsylvania. 1,300,000 votes to count, trump has a lead, but again they are counting in areas where joe but again they are counting in areas wherejoe biden but again they are counting in areas where joe biden does but again they are counting in areas wherejoe biden does pretty well delaware county, philadelphia county, Allegheny County so there is still about 30 of the budget, each of those counties. Absentee vote, there is not really a tradition in pennsylvania, but youll see that it does break heavily forjoe biden post has to 90, heavily forjoe biden post has to go, though, in pennsylvania. Here is like pence venue does not matter. Lets go back to our map and colour in some of these, you will see why philadelphia and pets vania not as important any more. And pennsylvania for that put North Carolina into red. I said it was leaning towards donald trump. We will put georgia in red, leaning towards donald trump. We are going towards donald trump. We are going to put arizona in blue. They are not conceding this, the Trump Campaign, but it is leaning heavily towards joe biden, so too nevada. We could put wisconsin in blue because they just called that, cbs. Also, fox news has called that, so that is in blue pending the recount. Michigan going more and more towardsjoe biden. And there we are 270. He does not even need pennsylvania at this moment to get over that line, and that is why katty and i were saying, if you were with us in the middle of the night, why that was so important, and nebraska too. If we have that any balance and give that to donald trump, that is the chaotic scenario, because we can put alaska infor scenario, because we can put alaska in for donald trump, 0k, and scenario, because we can put alaska infor donald trump, 0k, and if scenario, because we can put alaska in for donald trump, 0k, and if he wins nebraska two, 269 269. A whole lot of chaos. Butjoe biden is home with these states and pennsylvania does not matter to him. I have two questions for you. Did you get any sleepless night, and if you did, we re sleepless night, and if you did, were you dreaming about the number 270 and the electoral maps . I could not get that idea out of my head, the 269269 not get that idea out of my head, the 269 269 result, whoever came up with the idea of a type needs a talking to. Can ijust quickly chat about this recount business, christian . We know that the Trump Campaign has already asked for a recount in wisconsin, back in the 2016 election, the green party candidate, jill stein, called for recou nts candidate, jill stein, called for recounts in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. It is not at all unprecedented. As you said, the candidates are quite within their rights when it is very slim margins, as the states are, to call for recounts. Does that mean in terms of. We are putting it up that cbs is calling wisconsin forjoe biden, but the Trump Campaign say they want a recount. Do we have to take it back on the board ain . We have to take it back on the board again . What is the process . We are speaking to some officials later on, so speaking to some officials later on, so they might have more clarity on this, but doesnt mean we are to put yet more hold on things . There certainly is uncertainty. That margin is roughly the margin that Hillary Clinton lost wisconsin by 2016 and she conceded wisconsin, but hes legally within his rights, as hes legally within his rights, as he is in any state where the lead is within. 1 of the two candidates, and so, yeah, he is well within his legal rights to do that. The fact of the matter is, they dontjust start recounting right now because what you have to get from each of the counties is official certification of the count theyve already processed, and that could take several days. We could be into, ive seen dates of the 12 for the 15th of november, next week, so it is going to hang any balance and the of Donald Trumps that we watched at the early hours of the morning, when he came out to say that the vote was being taken away from him is that he is going to contest everything. They are contesting arizona, they contesting nevada. Iam are contesting arizona, they contesting nevada. I am showing you the maths in nevada and arizona for some looks difficult i know when fox news called arizona, for. The white house called and they said, ta ke white house called and they said, take that off the board, because they know without nevada and arizona, the president is finished, because he might win pennsylvania but then he needs one of the other big states. And there is some inconsistent here because the white house called for the voting arizona to carry on being counted, while that has been calling for a stop to the count as we heard last night from the president and some of those states up in the rust belt. Lets go over to white house. 0ur senior north america reporter anthony zurcher. Not any white house in the bureau there. Anthony, it has been a very long night. 3pm in the afternoon here on the east coast, what is your ta ke here on the east coast, what is your take away . Which way do you think this is going . At this point, it seems like momentum is heading towards joe seems like momentum is heading towardsjoe biden. Seems like momentum is heading towards joe biden. When seems like momentum is heading towardsjoe biden. When we were talking overnight, but we were looking at was donald trump having leads in states like wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, we were wondering, there are boats out there remaining to be counted. Are there enough votes out there in favour of joe biden that he can class way back oii joe biden that he can class way back on top . And about 4 30am this morning, joe biden did exactly that in wisconsin, at 6am this morning, joe biden did that in michigan. Wisconsin has been called forjoe biden. Now michigan is trending his way. Pennsylvania is a heavier lift, but description put it out, there are a lot of ballots that look like theyre going to go over warmly to joe biden remaining to be counting, and if that is the case, joe biden could even pull ahead and pennsylvania, but the bottom line is joe biden does not have to lead anywhere any more. He is had in michigan, he is ahead in arizona, he is ahead in nevada for all he has to do is hold on their and he will be the next president. 0r do is hold on their and he will be the next president. Or he could pick up the next president. Or he could pick up pennsylvania, pick up georgia and hedges bets a little bit. There are more paths now forjoe biden the donald trump. Donald trump has to be perfect and that is something joe biden does not have to now. In the early hours of the morning, donald trump said they were going to launch a supreme trump said they were going to launch a Supreme Court challenge, but katty has highlighted the intellectual inconsistency, really full study cannot say, lets stop the 0kanese midwest states, but keep looking down in nevada and arizona, there must be some boats down here for us. Surely the Supreme Court looks at that and says it cannot be one or the other. Right. Back in 2000, if you remember, during the big controversy in florida, the race between al gore and George W Bush was also close in new mexico, but George W Bushs site decided not to contest that new mexico result, because they did not want to seem hypocritical about pushing for a recount in one area and not pushing for a recount in another state. Here i think donald trump and his campaign have no problems with allegations of hypocrisy, they purely looking at this from a word we have it managed . Work we press our bench in each state . Theyre gonna fight every single one of them in whichever way they think they can prevail. Anthony zurcher, thank you very much, lets go to wilmington, delaware, where joe biden very much, lets go to wilmington, delaware, wherejoe biden is going to be speaking any moment now. The bbc cosmic Barbara Plett usher is there. We heard joe biden in middle of the night, speaking before the president did, calling on everybody to be patient. Now that the president has already started to launch lawsuits, trying to get a recount in wisconsin and came out in the middle of the night indeed saying that he believed he had already won the president , credential election, do you expect a different tone from the Biden Campaign . I think he will probably still call for a bit of patience, but the campaign has already this morning very much clearly said it believes thatjoe morning very much clearly said it believes that joe biden morning very much clearly said it believes thatjoe biden has morning very much clearly said it believes that joe biden has won the presidency. They said, similarto anthony was saying, wisconsin, mr biden was in the lead. That has since been called. He was in the lead in michigan. They expect that to be clear by the end of the day. They expect them to hold onto nevada. They believe they will take pennsylvania, although they dont need to, and they told us they believe they will have 270 electoral couege believe they will have 270 Electoral College votes by the end of the day, so College Votes by the end of the day, so they came out sounding quite confident about that. When mr biden speaks, i would look section to arrive shortly, Kamala Harris has just come, her motorcade hasjust passed by, and we expect mr biden to passed by, and we expect mr biden to pass by shortly, he will give us an update we understand on the situation, speak board more more definitively about the state of the race in the states. He will not declare victory, that is not what we have been led to believe, but i expect he will express a similar confidence that he is going to be the next president of the United States, and his team has also signalled very strongly that they are prepared to face the republicans in court forany are prepared to face the republicans in court for any legal challenges. That is the point, isnt it, barbara . When you say he is going to saveit barbara . When you say he is going to save it separately that they will challenge anything that the republicans lay down, some of the democrats that we have talked to overnight were saying, he really needs to lead from the front on this, the leg which has to be a very strong, is equally strong as the language we have heard from the other side, from donald trump. Yeah, i think hes going to choose language that will try not to diminish peoples faith in the credibility of the electoral system. His campaign was asked about this morning, if he declares that he is the winner, if you is not diminishing peoples belief in the cut ability of the election system . I think he will choose his words carefully, but asi as i have said, theyve already said they believe they have won enough electoral votes. This is going to drag on for a while, as you have explained, with the legal challenges, devote recount so on, and the democrats have been purring for that since 2000, when they felt that the republicans legal tactics had outmaneuvered them, so they are ina had outmaneuvered them, so they are in a position to do that. I think what we will need to be looking for in the next, maybe not the next days but weeks, is what mr biden will do well this is ongoing for some of the ta ke well this is ongoing for some of the take steps to start a transition . Will he start to name people he believes should be his cabinet appointments . And sort of behave as if he is the president elect . That is going be something to watch. But asi is going be something to watch. But as i said, the campaign itself came out quite strongly this morning, saying that they dont believe that donald trump has a case and that they are quite prepared to challenge him at every level. Barbara in delaware, take you very much indeed for that. The legal challenge, should it come, as we anticipated welcome will be about what a legal ballot is. We should remind our viewers, those ballots they are counting today are those that may have been cast before polling day for some these are the mail ballots that are every bit as legitimate as the in person, on the day vote that was counted yesterday, and we should also remind people that donald trump encouraged his supporters to turn up at the polls, he talked about the mailing filled being rigged, whereas the democrats were much more cautious with their vote, encouraged them to use every element of voting that they could, whether those early in person voting or mail in voting because they did not want to put that risk to the pandemic for stock this is what we were expecting right from the get go, and we should also stress, shouldnt we, that in michigan, in wisconsin and pencil venue, state law stipulates that you cannot open these mail in ballots until the day of the election, and you have said to the course of the night how complicated that processing of the ballots is . Yeah, and it is also completed because each state has slightly different rules, and each county in each state can have slightly different rules, so can have slightly different rules, so in pennsylvania for example, some counties in the states tonic states started counting the ballots on tuesday morning, at the polls open on election day, some states in pennsylvania did not start those ballots until wednesday come so you can see why it is confusion. It is understandable that everybody is confused, im a little confused by the process, because you have to not know just the the process, because you have to not knowjust the rules the process, because you have to not know just the rules for the country, you have to know the rules for the state. And the rest for the county. And youre right about the process, it is time consuming and it is labour intensive, because everything one of those ballots, youve got to open the envelope. In the case of pennsylvania, youve got to open a second envelope outside the envelope as well, youve got to unfold the piece of paper, youve got to scan that ballot and check the signature, the signature on the mailing out has to match the signature that is on the registry, and you can never havent left alone with one person, there have to be two people with each of those ballots. That is why its taking time. Youre right that we knew this could happen, we have been warning our viewers, christian, you and i, for a while know that this could happen, because we knew that there is this a slew of mail in ballots a nd that there is this a slew of mail in ballots and they will be counted after election day. I guess it is kind of different when it does actually happen, right . Even you and i have been warning about this and taken of the bed by surprise, because it feels a bit bewildering, frankly, to be in this point of uncertainty for some it is tough. It demands a huge amount of patients from democrats, from the i , from the republicans for sub the real danger of what President Trump did last night, and President Trump did last night, and President Trump is known for saying excessive things, but when he says to his supporters in particular, frankly, we have already won, that sows seeds of doubt about the actual final result and could well leave his supporters thinking, we were robbed, right . This is not a legitimate election. That is the real danger for american democracy. Where people dont believe the actual final result. Just one very quick point to make on pennsylvania. Those ballots that were cast before and were postmarked before polls closed on tuesday, and come in after the ballot all night pulled closed, coming in today or thursday or friday, which the Supreme Court said could be counted, the democrats know they will be a legal challenge to those and they have said in pennsylvania theyre those and they have said in pennsylvania they re going those and they have said in pennsylvania theyre going to keep those separate so those those they are counting now in pennsylvania are those that arrived in time, the other ballots are going to be quite separate, and it will be a legal battle over those. You just make that points to point stuff pointed out by the way was a ruling from the Supreme Court, a victory for conservatives on the Supreme Court. They were alleged keep those ballots that arrived after allowed to keep those ballots after election day segregated for stub one other quick point, those michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, they wa nted wisconsin and pennsylvania, they wanted to be able to start processing ballots earlier, as florida did and as 0hio did, those mail in ballots. They wanted to do that, they wanted to set it in motion, they had republican legislators who decided that was not what they were allowed to do, so there is some back and forth there about the fact that some of those democrats. For future about the fact that some of those democrats. Forfuture elections, america is going to have to look very carefully at this because this system very carefully at this because this syste m d oes very carefully at this because this system does not work, it does not do the country any favours. We dont know, not even for sure, whos the next president will be, which is pressuring for both sides, but as krishan and i was saying, not particular surprising because of all those postal votes. Is christian and i. And even when thats all done, expect a whole load of legal challenges that could drag it out for weeks, if not months. Lets bring in the democratic strategist mary anne marsh and former Trump Campaign adviser bryan la nza. Bryan, let me start with you, ive gone through numbers with my viewers and hope they follow them. When i look at the numbers and look at the places were moza rts look at the numbers and look at the places were mozarts chilled to be counted, particular in those four critical states, michigan, wisconsin, arizona and nevada, it looks a very difficult path for donald trump. My math looks like a tie, which is quite frightening, if we really think about it. Please, bryan, do not say that right . An hour ago, they said donald trump won in electoral vote in maine comes of that brings them to to so so that brings them to 269. I hope it is not a tie. The votes look tough. I talked to the campaign about half an hour ago about arizona. They still feel confident about arizona, they think that was called very early, some of the numbers on in, they are making up the gap. They think it could be within 1500 the gap. They think it could be within1500 votes in the end, because those are election day votes being counted in arizona. because those are election day votes being counted in arizona. I am still surprised by your maths. I have maine on the board, i have maine in blue. I dont get to a tie. Maine in blue. I dont get to a tie. Maine is four electoral votes, if you take one of them away and give them to trump, that brings them to 268. Yeah was neckties to dont get to the tie, because we have called alaska, we have called nebraska two, we have called nebraska two forjoe biden, maine two gives one to donald trump but it does not get a 2269. Maybe i am off by a number. You are off bya maybe i am off by a number. You are off by a number . It is important number mary anne marsh stomach, can we zoom out 50,000 feet mary and. My my kind of big take away from the democratic side, from last night, is that democrats are going to have to work harder to get non white voters, they cannot just work harder to get non white voters, they cannotjust rely on the democratic of this country changing. Because if you look at the fact that donald trump did better amongst black men and amongst black women than he did in 2016, and he was increasing his share amongst latino voters as well, the democrats have a problem, dont they . voters as well, the democrats have a problem, dont they . I am not true thatis problem, dont they . I am not true that is true, because we dont have final results, so we really dont know what the final percentages are andl know what the final percentages are and i would point to one very important fact that we are overlooking. The fact is, there are millions of ballots across the United States that have yet to be delivered to election departments, including all the case states where youre talking about, because the postmaster general defined a court order yesterday byjudge sullivan stating that he had to do that by 3pm. None of those ballots we re that by 3pm. None of those ballots were delivered for they are all mailed, they are all postmarked, they are in bins, not at the election department. They are in bins, not at the election department. Ij they are in bins, not at the election department. I saw that, andi election department. I saw that, and i saw that it might be significant in georgia and in Miami Dade County in florida, board action happens to those ballots now . Can they still be delivered . Can to be counted legally or are we looking at another set of legal challenges . Lam sure at another set of legal challenges . I am sure the trumped camping will challenge it, but they were mailed to him they were postmarked, they are indians. He chose not to deliver them. I will remind everybody, interfering with us mail is a felony, enter your with a palette is a felony and the is lewis dejoy defied interfering with ballots. Count all the ballots come them all in. Lam count all the ballots come them all in. I am confident when all the ballots are counted, joe biden is going to prevail, but donald trump knows if they count every valid, he is not going to prevail. Mary anne marsh, bryan lanza, thank you. Hello there. High pressure brought us a quiet day of weather on wednesday. The best of this sunshine across england and wales where much of the day skies looked like these. However, there were a few showers around across the north of wales. Across northwest england and the West Midlands as well. In scotland and Northern Ireland clouds have been thickening towards the end of the afternoon. And that cloud is associated with this cloud you can see here on the satellite picture. So warm fronts brings the rain across northern scotland and once that rain has pushed through, we will start to get milder air coming in around this area of High Pressure. So temperatures will actually be rising through the night. Whereas across the heart of england and wales, the fronts are kept at bay. And here, its going to be a cold night with long clear spells, frost, temperatures getting down to about 3, 11 degrees in the coldest areas in the countryside and there will be some dense patches of fog. Whereas that rain band in scotland, well, it trickles into the far north of england whilst weakening, where, over the hills, i suspect there will be a bit of drizzle. Once that front is through, its a night where temperature will be rising through the night, and by the end of the night, it will be back to 11 degrees in glasgow. So a mild start to the day for much of scotland, Northern Ireland and the far north of england. Cold in the south, sunshine once the fog patches have lifted and the frost has melted away. As far as the temperatures go, well, as we go through thursday afternoon, broadly speaking, similar to what we had on wednesday, highs of around ten to 13 degrees, but it could turn quite mild for a time in aberdeenshire. If we see a bit of sunshine, those higher temperatures boosted by the fern effect. Thats the winds coming over the mountains. 0n into fridays forecast, another quiet day, High Pressure stilljust about clinging on. Again, a cold start across southern areas with a few mist and fog patches. Rather cloudy again across northwestern parts of the country. And later through friday afternoon, we will start to see the winds pick up across the south. And that can make it feel just a little bit cooler and fresher for a time. Although on the face of it, those temperatures similar values, highs ten to 13 degrees. Now, for this weekend, we are going to start to see the winds turn to a more southerly direction. And those southerly winds will be pushing in some slightly milder air. But its going to take a while for that milder air to mix into the weather in scotland, so here, it stays quite cool. Those temperatures slow to rise, but england and wales turning milder. 16 degrees or so in london. But there will be some cloud and rain around at times through the weekend as well. Youre watching bbc news with me, katty kay, in washington. Christian fraser is in london. Our top stories a huge turnout across the United States in the president ial election, but the winner will ultimately be decided by the voters ofjust a few Battle Ground states. Us media are calling the key state of wisconsin forjoe biden, but trumps team has already said they want a recount. Taking the fight state by state were in North Carolina, where at one point donald trump looked poised for victory. But now its too close to call. And the role of race in this election. According to exit polls, joe biden enjoyed strong support among African Americans in a year marked by racial tensions and division. However this all pans out, one thing is certain President Trump has come out more powerful than ever in the Republican Party after having successfully proved his 2016 election win was way more than just a fluke. Joe bidens hold over his party, on the other hand, isnt quite as messianic. If he ends up winning the white house, hell be under pressure from colleagues on the left of his party to deliver on promises of a more progressive type of politics. What to make of it all . Robert reich is the former us labor secretary to president clinton, now a Public Policy professor at berkeley. Thank you very much forjoining us. Doesjoe biden thank you very much forjoining us. Does joe biden go thank you very much forjoining us. Doesjoe biden go into this even if he wins the Electoral College, given that he does not have the senate committed to go into it a weekend president . Weekend relative to certainly what he would be if he had the senate as well as the house, but he will certainly if he becomes president , he will repeal a law of the executive orders and reverse the executive orders of donald trump on the environment, on the and so forth. He will also protect labour unions. Will reverse the regulations that donald trump has put into effect. But dont expect any big legislative outcomes because he will not be able to get big legislation through the senate. not be able to get big legislation through the senate. I much to do know what you think will happen with donald trump. If he is to lose this battle, does he just donald trump. If he is to lose this battle, does hejust walk donald trump. If he is to lose this battle, does he just walk away from politics . Im sure the legal battles will mount for him but does he depart politics or does he remain the opposition and waiting . depart politics or does he remain the opposition and waiting . I think he remains unnecessarily in waiting. I dont think he will plan to run again in 2024 but undoubtedly donald trump and fox news, his partner in a way, fox news and donald trump remain the Biggest Forces in the Republican Party today. And that will be the case even if donald trump loses the presidency. When you look at what is happening around the country, the cost of the pandemic, the state of the economy, so many controversies surrounding donald trump, and then you look at what happened last night, why was it so ha rd happened last night, why was it so hard for democrats to win this if indeed they have won it at the Electoral College level . I think people were looking at the opinion polling heading into the election and thinking that democrats could have a huge big blue wave its of the country and set them into the senate as well but itjust did not happen. What is the problem for democrats . First of all complicity culture but we can conclude. Obviously not all of the votes been tallied. But you are right, it was not nearly the wave that was predicted. I think one of the problems may be the democrats have not really embraced the american working class the way the democrats used to too. In the days of Franklin D Roosevelt coalition. The democrats if anything over the last 30 years have sort of abandon the working class in pursuit of the suburban swing voter, the upper middle class voter. That has cost them dearly. The working class was not rewarded by donald trump but at least donald trump created the impression, kind ofa trump created the impression, kind of a trojan horse impression, that he was a hero of the working class. While he was giving tax breaks and regulatory rollbacks and Everything Else that the oligarchy, the elite, the rich wanted. He did manage to stylistically convince people that he was antiestablishment. Not embrace working class, bob, we look ahead now to the lex six months, although sort of things thatjoe biden will have to put in place to deal with the pandemic. We know from our experience here in the uk the people this hurts the most when he lock down are those Blue Collar Workers, those who can work from home, the white collar educated voters, they manage. They have resources. Voters, they manage. They have resources. If the Blue Collar Workers who will be to proportionately affected. That is to bea proportionately affected. That is to be a real problem forjoe biden over the next year. Yes, it could be. And also it will be very hard forjoe biden to get a stimulus package of the magnitude that is needed. I would estimate 3 trillion through a senate that his Republican Senate that suddenly becomes very nervous about deficits whenever a president isa about deficits whenever a president is a democrat. Sojoe biden is certainly going to have his work cut out for him. But its very much like sadly what happened to bill clinton and also to barack obama. They ended up and also to barack obama. They ended up there first two years in office kind of cleaning up messes left by the republican predecessors. Its a very good point, joe biden in the administration during the financial crisis in 2008. Love to talk to you, bob, thank you for being in the programme. What started as a nationwide battle for the presidency has devolved into a series of electoral skirmishes in a series of key states. Michigan, pennsylvania, georgia these are all still in play, some with razor thin margins. Take North Carolina. At one point, donald trump held a signficant lead there, but its now neck and neck. Lets head to charlotte in North Carolina and our correspondent larry madowo. Larry, do we know when we are going to get a result out of North Carolina . We think it might be another week or so to go because they have until november the 12th for all the mail in ballots that have not been returned to be returned and then counted and excepted. In fact, in some county boards they might only meet on the 13th to decide that. Interesting because yesterday they stopped counting because 100 of precincts we re counting because 100 of precincts were recording in North Carolina and President Trump had a lead of 1. 4 overjoe biden President Trump had a lead of 1. 4 over joe biden savea President Trump had a lead of 1. 4 overjoe biden savea has a lead of about 76,000 votes. But about 117,000 mail in ballots have not been returned to North Carolina as long as it was postmarked by 5pm yesterday, they can be accepted after up to the 12th of november. I know you like a good cliffhanger and northglenn is providing the perfect one for you. Thanks. You do look a good cliffhanger, dont you . Thats in you make is setting here is me banging my head on the desk, larry. Im looking at this, a mixed bag in North Carolina. Look at those scan is a still have to count and it is quite a number of them. There are still votes across the map in North Carolina. Absolutely. And those are now the last bit of it. So the action people who voted on election day, those are all county. Those that voted early, those are all counted but these male in votes, these are the ones missing and that is why no major news outlet has called North Carolina even though President Trump is leading here because those 117,000 votes that are left could go anyway. And so the state board of elections that runs elections here and is of the secretary of state, theyve given an hour long press briefing and the main take away was we cannot tell you who is winning, ourjob is to count the votes and make sure every vote is counted and it may be the 12 or 13th in november. Larry vote is counted and it may be the 12 or13th in november. Larry was in a Party Last Night and he was the last one there. They had all departed and he was the last one. I was watching. They had ta ken he was the last one. I was watching. They had taken the taps on the case and could not even drink any more. It was all getting very depressing. I stayed there because the backdrop was amazing. The music was good. You at least had a party but we were stuck in a studio for ten hours straight, we were jealous. Stuck in a studio for ten hours straight, we werejealous. Working out my row you had with brian lanza and figuring out how you got to 269. Could we do that . I put the main two in red could we do that . I put the main two in red i told you about nebraska Second District and there it is in blue, you did not get to 269. So we are giving him North Carolina and giving donald trump georgia . I got 258258. 270 is the mark. It takes appetite and the importance of pennsylvania. That is a point about nebraska at number two. That is why donald trump was in ohio omaha on a very cold tuesday night last week. We were saying what is he doing there and it is only one electoral couege there and it is only one Electoral College but we can get in omaha and nebraska. They look at this scenario and must have done because why else would he have been there . Why would he have flown off to nebraska . Their relatives last four years had been a pretty masterful job ever relatives last four years had been a pretty masterfuljob ever since the day after donald trump was not granted back in 2017, they went to work shoring up the selection and spent hundreds of millions of dollars around the country on registering Republican Voters in getting them out to vote for their side. They stated communities and put people into communities and it paid off of them last night. There was a record turnout, joe biden got more votes lets not do any president ial candidate ever in American Election but donald trump did well and that is because the turnout was so high. And their internal polling very good because they were constantly defined the poles we were seeing and showing you last week and they said pennsylvania was tight and indeed pennsylvania is tight and wisconsin was tighter than we we re tight and wisconsin was tighter than we were looking at in the polls. If this election process has seemed a tad exhausting, then spare a thought for the White House Press corp who have done this day in and day out for months, if not years. The press conferences, the road trips, the rallies, and the seemingly constant drumbeat of anti media sentiment from President Trump and his supporters. Jeff mason is the White House Correspondent for reuters and has been in the thick of it throughout. Hejoins us now. Thank you very much for coming back on the programme. Did you see this scenario coming . You are a wise man. I tell you what, i will say that i saw it would be very close i travel with President Trump last week. He had a bunch of those rallies and including the nebraska one you just referred to in omaha which was freezing cold and ended up leaving people stranded, but you are right, he had a reason to go there. And i guess my take away from last week as one would see from my twitter feed is there were big crowds. I kept sending out pictures and videos of those crowds to show that President Trump was somebody who you just could not count out despite the fact that democrats were talking about a potential blue wave and i heard you talking about that earlier, that as you said quite rightlyjust have not materialised. No one knows what is going on inside the administration better than you. What is the mood there right now as we look at the way these boats are falling in those four crucial Battle Ground states . People around the president thinking this is over . Is mixed. I was in the white house last night and there was sort of a sense of cautious optimism but also nervousness. Among those are on the president of, of course a lot has changed even in the last 12 hours with wisconsin now going to Vice President biden. I think they are still, i think it is still mixed, there are some who are optimistic still and you see that in their desire to start some legal challenges. Their belief that that is the way to get him over the top to 270 but i also spoke to a more junior white house late last night who was in tears because she was afraid she was going to lose herjob because she thought her boss was going to lose. Those legal challenges, President Trump has a history of litigation. He did it as a businessman up in new york. Do we when he said last night at the white house we are taking this to the Supreme Court, is that the route they are going . They think they can do that and have now said its pennsylvania and wisconsin that they are going to demand a recount was met do they hope those end up in the Supreme Court and have that swing their way . It is certainly what he as he rightly said suggested last night but he did not provide any details about how that would play out. Today, the details that we are getting are related to those states that you just referred to, yes, i think there will be a challenge about pennsylvania, about michigan and whether that ends up eventually in the Supreme Court or in lower courts is hard to say. But it will certainly end up being a battle of lawyers as much as anything. And it is worth pointing out that he has laid the groundwork for that and sort of foreshadow that for weeks and months. And sought to undermine the legitimacy of the election by undermining the rightness or the ability for people to vote by mail. Which of course the democrats encouraged. 0k, jeff mason, get some sleep. Yeah, ill try. You too. At some point. In the long march to this election, there has been a relaively small, but quite vocal group of republicans who have spoken loudly against President Trump. One of the most eloquent voices in that chorus has been that of george will, a conservative political commentator whos a columnist for the washington post. Hejoins us now. Very good he joins us now. Very good to hejoins us now. Very good to have you back on the programme with us. We were just saying a little earlier that this in a way emboldens Donald Trumps position. Nobody foresaw what happened last night also the doomsday prophecies were out there. Does this mean that the Republican Party is still within his iron grip . I dont think so. You saw last night some republicans discovering their spines when he said we want to stop the voting. They said no, we want to count the votes and that was the first flicker of independence on the pa rt of first flicker of independence on the part of the people who have had a four sabbatical from responsibility. There is nothing deader than a lame duck president. And as soon as the Supreme Court makes short shrift of his appeal there which i think it will do because you have to have a case or controversy and im not sure what injury he can cite from this is not bush versus gore. The Supreme Court stopped recounts and not counts of the votes so im not sure what his path forward isjudicially. But one thing that last night was not, george pym it was a repudiation of donald trump and trumpism. He did far better than opinion polls adjusted he was going to do and a lot of people in this country have looked at the last four years, millions of them, and decided they liked what they saw and they wanted four more years of it. So i dont see that donald trump even if he is not president again is going to go anywhere, it seems. The party still likes him in the bay still likes him. Unless someone shuts off his twitter account, then yes, he will be there. People live in fear that a tweak and get them primary to and could get them crosswise with the base. The problem is a Republican Base. The problem is a Republican Baseis base. The problem is a Republican Base is all he has cared about for the last few years. And Republican Base that he has catered to is an ever smaller portion of the national electorate. Its rural, the country is now up 17 rural. It used to be 50 years ago 37 rural. It is religiously based. Evangelical christians, the country is rapidly becoming more secular. Sol christians, the country is rapidly becoming more secular. So i dont see how you can continue to squeeze a majority, which of course he has not achieved. Republicans are not achieved a popular vote majority in seven of the last eight elections and the one they did the majority was 50. 4 . So essentially they have almost lost the popular vote in eight consecutive elections. He within the political market would be telling the market from republicans something. You see the changing face of america in that result in arizona and how close it was in georgia and also in texas as well. We have to leave it there because we expectjoe biden to come and talk very shortly, so thank you very much for that. We we re so thank you very much for that. We were talking earlier aboutjust a many people voted this year but getting out the vote has been hard. Ina yearof getting out the vote has been hard. In a year of social distancing. For more, lets bring in Stefanie Brown james, co founder of the collective pac, which supports progressive black candidates. She also worked under president obama. Very good to have you on the programme and one thing that stuck out last night was the vote in florida in Miami Dade County and it showed just a difficultjoe biden found it with particularly young African Americans. Found it with particularly young africanamericans. He definitely struggled in a couple of areas. One of them was both black men and young black americans. We know that coming into election day, we saw that lesson to percent of young black vote rs lesson to percent of young black voters between the ages of 18 34 had voted early. And there needed to be a much larger voter turnout early for him to have significant voter chaircoming into for him to have significant voter chair coming into election date. And so clothe the message continues to have to really resonate with these young voters of what joe biden and Kamala Harris will have to do to get a Better Future than their parents and democrats have to grow in the area. We heard george say that the Republican Base is shrinking and donald trump is basically appeal to White Working Class voters when im not sure thats true looking at the exit poll returns from last night. Donald trump did better amongst black men and black women than he did four years ago. So if the republicans under donald trump can chip away at the democratic base, it suggests that they are hearing something from donald trump that they like and that they are prepared to go out and vote for. Are the democrats taking black voters and non white voters, latino voters, for granted . I definitely would not facilitate black voters for granted. We also know that going into election day, donald trump spent more than 800 times the amount on facebook ads that were targeting black men specifically around economic and criminaljustice messages. That is a message did not hear as often from the joe Biden Campaign. That was a message that often was very flawed. It was not rooted in the truth that it needed to be. So when you have consistent messaging going towards one constituency to get them to turn out to vote. Why did the Biting Campaign not do something to counter that if they knew it was going on . True and i think they tried a little bit too late to be very honest. In the last couple of months and really the last couple of months and really the last couple of months and really the last month we saw a more focused towards the economic and criminal justice reframing of itjoe biden and Kamala Harris but i think it actually was a little bit too late to get those black voters do not vote at even higher numbers than they did in 2016. If it is joe biden, and we have shown on the map to not why it could well be, what would you like to see from the administration . Would there be concerns that once they are in office the splits we saw in 2016 between the Progressive Left of the party and the centrists likejoe biden, do you think that golf starts to reopen . I should think he was able to close it and even with the addition of Kamala Harris who i know has some people thinking a more conservative background, ithink has some people thinking a more conservative background, i think she was able to help bring more balance to the ticket. They have been able to the ticket. They have been able to reach out to people like Bernie Sanders and aoc and others to come of the campaign much stronger so i think will not see a widening of the gulf but may be the mistress can be pushed to have more progressive policies in place. I think they definitely need to have a very diverse cabinet in place and so i think that the progressives are going to continue to fight as hard as they can. I dont think we are going to see joe biden get any more than he already has and will pretty much stay firmly in the centre honestly. You are raising an issue that occurred during while we spoke to bob earlier in that is that it is a challenge to the democrats half to appeal to all of the different bits of the coalition that they need in order to get them elected. They do have to peel away some White Working Class voters in it rural wisconsin. They have to latino workers in nevada. They have got to try and do better amongst cuban americans in south florida. As well as appealing and making sure that African American men in particular in North Carolina, incredible states like georgia get to the polls and vote for them as well and suburban women, too. Youve got to find a campaign and a candidate and a message that fits all of those bits together. Does that not come down to candidates . And candidates have to look up people they represent . Absolutely. But one president ial candidate and one Vice President shall candidate cannot like all of those people. But the kenny moore preventative of all americans and essentially what you we re americans and essentially what you were saying that we need a candidate he really will work to represent all americans. And we know that there are some unifying things across the board. Health care, quality education, public safety. Have a get of those things is oftentimes a very localised and state based issue so we have to not only diversify the top of the ticket but really be focused on these down ballot races in down ballot representation. We can have a country where 90 of all bulleted officials are white which is where we were going into this election. So when we see a diversity diversification of the entire democracy of who is elected, then you will have more people who see themselves reflected in these elected officials and policies that also report reflect those changes as well. 0k, thank you very much for joining us. Such an interesting conversation because we are in a moment will be looking at both the future of the Publican Party and Democratic Party and they have different challenges. But they both have to be asking questions today about what voters want from them, what kind of candidates they need to be putting up in which district i think she is right that you need to put a candidate up in the district that suits at district and dont obviously try and run somebody in the south who knows nothing about the south who knows nothing about the local Church Community for example. And that is something that perhaps democrats have not been as good as republicans in recent years but its a broad tent that they have to appeal to. But its a broad tent that they have to appealto. It is but its a broad tent that they have to appeal to. It is with Republican Party faces the same dilemma. And we talk to them at the beginning of the night last night about the changing face of america and how virginia is a Southern State but is now gone firmly into the blue column. Starting to see it with North Carolina and georgia in the balance again. In texas, three consecutive general elections has gone more and more towards the democrats. Mitt romney went by 16 points, donald trump wanted by nine points in 2016 and now it last this time. Now about three orfour points and now it last this time. Now about three or four points to some around. That is a worrying picture for republicans in texas because if you dont appeal to latinos as a George W Bush did. Dont appeal to latinos as a George W Bush did. Is worrying if you cannot appeal to latinos because in florida donald trump did well but you can say florida is different with cuban americans and venezuelan americans in a more conservative leaning or definitely list because of the countries and they come from. What is familiar to raleigh, charlotte, atlanta, houston, dallas, austin is that suburban diverse population. Younger and of course more democrat leaning. And that is the message republicans have to alter if they are going to appeal to those people. Plenty more coming up and looking at those vote council to stay with us. Hello there. High pressure brought us a quiet day of weather on wednesday. The best of this sunshine across england and wales where much of the day skies looked like these. However, there were a few showers around across the north of wales. Across north west england and the West Midlands as well. In scotland and Northern Ireland, clouds have been thickening towards the end of the afternoon. And that cloud is associated with this cloud you can see here on the satellite picture. So warm fronts bring the rain across northern scotland and once that rain has pushed through, we will start to get milder air coming in around this area of High Pressure. So temperatures will actually be rising through the night. Whereas across the heart of england and wales, the fronts are kept at bay. And here, its going to be a cold night with long clear spells, frost, temperatures getting down to about 3, 4 degrees in the coldest areas in the countryside and there will be some dense patches of fog. Whereas that rain band in scotland, well, it trickles into the far north of england whilst weakening, where, over the hills, i suspect there will be a bit of drizzle. Once that front is through, its a night where temperature will be rising through the night, and by the end of the night, it will be back to 11 degrees in glasgow. So a mild start to the day for much of scotland, Northern Ireland and the far north of england. Cold in the south, sunshine once the fog patches have lifted and the frost has melted away. As far as the temperatures go, well, as we go through thursday afternoon, broadly speaking, similar to what we had on wednesday, highs of around 10 13 degrees, but it could turn quite mild for a time in aberdeenshire. If we see a bit of sunshine, those higher temperatures boosted by the fern effect. Thats the winds coming over the mountains. 0n into fridays forecast, another quiet day, High Pressure stilljust about clinging on. Again, a cold start across southern areas with a few mist and fog patches. Rather cloudy again across northwestern parts of the country. And later through friday afternoon, we will start to see the winds pick up across the south. And that can make it feel just a little bit cooler and fresher for a time. Although on the face of it, those temperatures similar values, highs 10 13 degrees. Now, for this weekend, we are going to start to see the winds turn to a more southerly direction. And those southerly winds will be pushing in some slightly milder air. But its going to take a while for that milder air to mix into the weather in scotland, so here, it stays quite cool. Those temperatures slow to rise, but england and wales turning milder. 16 degrees or so in london. But there will be some cloud and rain around at times through the weekend as well. This is bbc news. A massive turn out americans havent voted in these numbers in over a century, just one of last nights many surprises. Another the razor thin margins. Both campaigns are still waiting for results in a few key battleground states. This is the live shot from wilmington, delaware. Joe biden is due to speak any moment now. He is expected to update his supporters on the state of the race. We will bring you that, of course. Donald trump is casting doubt on the whole voting process. And he is launching lawsuits as we speak. Mr biden pulls ahead in the state of wisconsin the Trump Campaign says it will immediately request a recount of the vote. Of course, 270 is the magic number, but neither is there yet. What are the likely paths to Electoral College success . Well look at the options. Hello, im katty kay in washington. Christian fraser is in london. No one said democracy is easy, but this might be pushing things a bit. All through the night and into the morning, americans have been waiting to learn who will lead their nation for the coming four years. And as we inch ever closer to a resolution, the stakes rise ever higher. The political air is thick with talk of recounts and legal challenges, even before an official winner has been declared. A number of key states have yet to be called, and both the biden and the trump camps are bracing for whats to come. Mr biden is due to address the state of the race in delaware any moment now. We heard from him last night and he was ina we heard from him last night and he was in a pretty confident mood last night. They were looking at those figures in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania. There were some doubts, at this side, at least, because we are looking at big republican tallies in the states that they could claw back, but as they opened those early ballots in they opened those early ballots in the states and counted them, in those heavily democratic areas, we have seen joe those heavily democratic areas, we have seenjoe biden clawing back the race and now in the lead in wisconsin and michigan, and when you consider his lead in arizona and nevada too, you have to say he is in pretty good shape. Yeah, he is. But there are all these legal cases and, look, we were thinking that we may get a result once the votes are counted, weve called wisconsin now. We thought we might get a result while the votes are counted in michigan and then down in North Carolina and georgia as well, in arizona, but then we have lawsuits. I guess they could delay the result even further in all this, and enormous uncertainty. Meanwhile, we began this week talking about pennsylvania, the state that is still in play. With 20 Electoral College votes, its the biggest prize left on the map. Indeed, it is. Depends on how the votes fall. And now President Trumps legal team has filed a lawsuit to halt the counting of votes there. Lets head to pennsylvania and our correspondent Michelle Fleury is in philadelphia for us. Looking at the map, pennsylvania becomes less important ifjoe biden hangs onto nevada and arizona, but i guess the president s team is working on Different Levels at the moment, and what they try to stop is what . Mail in ballots, postal ballots. Christian, i what . Mail in ballots, postal ballots. Christian, lam what . Mail in ballots, postal ballots. Christian, i am standing what . Mail in ballots, postal ballots. Christian, lam standing in front of the Pennsylvania Convention centre. Behind me is where they are counting those postal votes. We still dont know the result, but as things currently stand, Donald Trump Holds a lead in pennsylvania. Here is the thing, though, because of coronavirus, because of the unprecedented number of pennsylvanians voted by mail, this ago to take longer. In person votes, thatis ago to take longer. In person votes, that is expected to favoured republicans, thats what we seeing. Mail in votes are expected to favour democrats. That takes longer, you have to take out the ballots, check the signatures. That is why the delay. Philadelphia is saying they are greater work 24 7 to try and get this done. In the meantime, elected officials have been urging patients, but as you can hear around me, in the city of brotherly love, tensions are rising. A short while ago, there we re are rising. A short while ago, there were a numberof are rising. A short while ago, there were a number of Trump Supporters arguing that poll watchers were not allowed close enough to monitor the process, and we have biting supporters saying, just let us count the vote. Tensions are rising, yet it like it will be several days before we get results here biden supporters. And in the meantime, the president launching legal challenges and in the last few minutes, the president tweeting that he won pennsylvania despite the fact the votes are not in. Michelle, talk us through how this Legal Process pans out from the president s point of view. What are the steps he goes through . Just a little bit of, taking a few steps back in time, even before we got to election day, the republicans had mounted several legal challenges in this state on a variety of different issues, and none of them had stuck. There is the issue that ultimately ended up in from the Supreme Court about whether mail in ballots, with the election day postmarked but received after november three, would be counted. The Supreme Court ruled 4 4, so essentially the state spring court ruling was kept, this can be counted. Now here we are post election day, and there is a new lawsuit we understand to try and stop the count, but one republican lawyer told me he did not see what grounds there was for that. 0k, Michelle Fleury there in philadelphia. Well, lets get the view from joe bidens home town of scranton, pennsylvania, Democratic Party senator bob casey. Senator casey, takes very much for joining us on the programme. When will we know the results from pennsylvania . It is hard to be certain about the exact hour or day, because there are still a lot of those to be counted, but we have got about 82 of the vote counted. 18 is about 82 of the vote counted. 18 is a lot of votes and its a lot of mail in votes and they are going to go overwhelmingly forjoe biden, so were still waiting on about six big counties, mostly, where the vote is, in philadelphia and the suburbs around philly, and Allegheny County of west, so it will be a while, but heres what i am going to say very plainly and ive said this a couple of times today. Joe biden is going to win because of vania, he is going to win because of vania, he is going to win because of vania, he is going to win by 100,000 votes and he is going to get the Electoral College votes from pennsylvania. Those votes have not been counted yet, senator, so how can you be so sure . Is based upon what is out and where those boats are going. This is not like usual election remotes are coming from all different places and you dont know where theyre going to land. We know from the way the counting has occurred already that, in places like philadelphia and montgomery county, joe biden is getting the margins like 80 20 or 9010, getting the margins like 80 20 or 90 10, and that is on these other counties, he is getting about 70 of those, so when you add it all up, people smarter than i that ive consulted with has made that estimate, and i think that is not only accurate but it might be a little bit conservative, but we dont care with the margin is. We just want to make sure that he wins, andl just want to make sure that he wins, and i thing he will. Just want to show our viewers the life pictures of the podium in delaware, we have had a two minute warning on this. While we are waiting for him, and forgive me for interrupting you, can you explain to people what goes into these counting centres . The impression the president has left us with is that you could find a box of votes a nd with is that you could find a box of votes and bring those in and throw them into the vote count. What sort of oversight is there in these counting centres . What does it look like . I think what the president says about this and a lot of other topics, he lies all the time, so i think most People Discount what he says. These are ballots that are coming in by the male. Most of them, the lions share of them, coming before election day, and then you have some that are postmarked on election day, as your correspondent noted, and then they can be counted today, thursday and friday, so we are going to get a total count and when that total count. But there is oversight in there. That is the point i am making. Who is in there watching this . There are county election officials, and then you have folks from both campaigns who have folks from both campaigns who have a role to play in terms of observing, but that can vary by county. Senator, are you confident that the Biden Campaign has done what it might take to shore up its own Legal Resources . I am going to interrupt you, senator, i am sorry. The former Vice President is locking up the former Vice President is locking up onto the stage. Senator casey, thank you. Kamala and i are here to make a brief statement, and im sure we will have more to say later, and either tonight or tomorrow, but let me begin by thanking the press for being here and thinking everyone else. My fellow americans, yesterday, once again proved that democracy is the heartbeat of this nation. Just as it has been the heartbeat of this nation for two centuries. And even in the face of a pandemic, more americans voted the the selection than any other in american history, more than 150 Million People cast their votes. I think that isjust Million People cast their votes. I think that is just extraordinary. And if we had any doubts, we should not and he longer, about a government by, of and for the people, is very much alive. Very much alive in america. Here, the people rule. Power cannot be taken or asserted. It flows from the people. And it is there will that determines who will be the president of the United States and there will alone. And now, after a long night of counting, its clear that we are winning enough states to reach 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. I am electoral votes needed to win the presidency. Lam not electoral votes needed to win the presidency. I am not here to declare that we have won, but i am here to report when the count is finished, we believe we will be the winners. With all the votes counted, we have won wisconsin by 20,000 votes, virtually the same margin President Trump won that state four years ago. In michigan, we lead by over 35,000 votes, and its growing. A substantially bigger margin than President Trump won michigan in 2016. Michigan will complete its vote soon, maybe as early as today, andl vote soon, maybe as early as today, and i feel very good about pennsylvania. Virtually all the remaining balance to be counted were cast by mail, and we have been winning 78 of the votes by mail in pennsylvania. We flipped arizona and the Second District of nebraska. Of special significance to me is that we have won with the majority of the American People, and every indication is that the majority will grow, with a popular lead of nearly 3 million votes, and every indication is that will grow as well. Indeed, senator harris and i are on track to win more votes than any ticket in the history of this country. That ever won the presidency and vice presidency. Over 70 million votes. I am very proud of ourcampaign. Only 70 million votes. I am very proud of our campaign. Only three president ial campaigns in the past have defeated an incumbent president. When it is finished, god willing, we will be the fourth. This isa willing, we will be the fourth. This is a major achievement. This is a major achievement. Its been a long and difficult campaign, but its beena and difficult campaign, but its been a more difficult time for our country, a hard time. We have had a ha rd country, a hard time. We have had a Hard Campaign for, we are faced hard times before, so once the this election is finalised and behind us, it will be time for us to do what we have always done as americans, to put the harsh rhetoric of the campaign behind us, to lower the temperature, to see each other again, to listen to one another, to hear each other again and respect and care for one another. To unite, to heal, to come together as a nation. Kind know this wont be easy, i am nation. Kind know this wont be easy, lam not nation. Kind know this wont be easy, i am not naive, nation. Kind know this wont be easy, lam not naive, neither of nation. Kind know this wont be easy, i am not naive, neither of us are,| easy, i am not naive, neither of us are, i know how deep and hard the opposing views are in our country. On so many things. But i also know this as well. To make progress, we have to stop treating our opponents as enemies. We are not enemies. What brings us together as americans is so much stronger than anything that can tearus apart, so much stronger than anything that can tear us apart, so let me be clear. We are campaigning as a democrats, but i will govern as an american president. The presidency itself is not a partisan institution. Its the one office in this nation that represents everyone , this nation that represents everyone, and it demands a duty of ca re everyone, and it demands a duty of care for all americans, and that is precisely what i will do. I will work as hard for those who did not vote for me as i will for those who did vote for me. Now, every vote must be counted. No one is going to ta ke must be counted. No one is going to take our democracy away from us. Not now, not ever. America has come too far, americas thoughts to many battles, america has endured too much to ever let that happen. We the people will not be silenced. We the people will not be silenced. We the people will not be silenced. We the people will not be bullied. We the people will not be bullied. We the people will not surrender. My friends, i people will not surrender. My friends, lam people will not surrender. My friends, i am confident we will emerge victorious, but this will not be my victory alone or our victory alone. It will be a victory for the American People, for democracy, for america, and there will be no blue states and red states when we win, just the United States of america. God bless you all and may god protect our troops. Thank you. 0k, joe biden there in wilmington, delaware, looking tired, it has to be said, sounding a little tired. Understandably. This must be absolutely exhausting. It is what is Campaign Ward everybody could happen, but when it plays out in real time, it feels very different from the scenarios we had talked about. Interesting contrast with President Trump. Lets just make this clear. There wasjoe biden. We seem to have lost christian. I am impressed with that you just disappeared, christian. It wasjust rather glorious. Anyway, your back. It was a bit like harry potter. Here you are again. Its been a very long night, you have to forgive us. I am not here to declare that i have won, but i am here to report that when the count is finished, we believe we will be the winner of contrast that to what donald trump said last night that a fraud was being committed against the American People and that, frankly, he believed he had already won. I am saying that slightly verbatim, perhaps some but he could pull those words up, that is what donald trump said and it is different in tone and i wonder whether some timecodes going to look atjoe biden and say, we really wish you would go with her and say, we have won, we have won, because that is the contrast to donald trump, but thats whatjoe biden has done during this campaign. He has been cautious, he has not held those big rallies, he has not held those big rallies, he has not held those big rallies, he has kept every thing social distanced and he cannot say he is the where yet, he cannot declare they have won, because we have not called those states, until those estates are called, he is not cut 270 Electoral College votes. If somebody in his Campaign Says they have won, they are wrong. Just looking at the macro what senator bob casey was saying, that lead that donald trump had has dropped by 70,000 while we have been on air. It is now 340 3000, 80 4 of the vote counted 300 43,000. And you heard joe biden saying that that virtually all of the remaining vote as early ballot, which excuse heavily by over ten points to the democrats, and he is saying we have won 70 of that that was made which skews heavily. They think theyre going to catch donald trump in pennsylvania, just counting the votes, remember, that came in postmarked before the polls closed at 8pm eastern. Those that came in afterwards, which democrat would like to count and could count until friday, are being put separate to this ballot will be contested in court, but the vote thats being counted now is narrowing, substantially, and joe biden clearly things they are going to overtake Joe Biden Biden clearly things they are going to overtakejoe biden there as well, which would be significant. That would be soon if it can. That was pennsylvania. Lets go out west. That would be significant. Nevadas six electoral votes are now key to for both parties if they want to get to the white house. With 86 of the vote reported, biden has a slim lead there. But with only democratic leaning postal ballots and provisional ballots remaining, President Trump has a small mountain to climb in order to change the likely result. No new results will be released until tomorrow. The attorney general for nevada, aaron ford, joins us now. Thank you forjoining the programme. Why wont those results being released until tomorrow . No that is a critical state where people want results from. First of all, thank you for having me on, and i appreciate talking with you across the pond about our elections here. First of all. Are state had a free, safe and Fair Elections and nevadans were able to exercise their constitutional right during the pandemic. We knew the process would ta ke pandemic. We knew the process would take some time but the process is working, so all the citizens out there who voted this year, thank you for doing your part. To your question, it is taking time because we have safeguards in place to prevent fraud, such as signature verification, unique bar codes and other tools and we have tens of thousands, at least by the estimations of our local registrars, of mail in ballots yet to count. Could you explain for our viewers around the world what happens to a ballot that you have been mailed in when it starts to be sorted . What is the process . Who controls it . What happens to it . That is in the lien of our secretary of state, but also our county registrars. We have 17 of those. These ballots are mailed back to the local county registrars and they go through a signature verification process and they go through a tallying process that are observed by a Bipartisan Group of individuals called poll observers, and so every level, every step, there are verification processes that are in play and protect the efficacy and the integrity of our elections. Attorney general, can you talk to us about the laws regarding recou nts talk to us about the laws regarding recounts in nevada . Joe bidens lead at the moment is 7000, although i have told people that when you look at clark county, washoe county, there is every belief that might increase forjoe biden, but lets argue that stays at that margin. What are the rules and how quickly could it be done . Thats a great question about the recount process here in nevada, and the short answer is any losing candidate can request a recount in nevada and there is no minim vote requirement to do that. However, a recount cannot be requested until the vote has been certified, and here in nevada, the vote must be certified by november 16. Until then, the vote must be certified by november 16. Untilthen, the losing vote must be certified by november 16. Until then, the losing candidate will have three days to demand a recount. Explain to us, because a lot of people will be scratching their heads here, because we have general elections here in the uk. Most of the results are in by tea time the next day. Why are vote cou nters tea time the next day. Why are vote counters and the voting stations not working around the clock now, given how pivotal this is, to get the vote in indo fatah . To the contrary, i think generally speaking, most of these people are working around the clock, but we are people. They are people. We want to ensure they are rested and not careless as to not make mistakes. Counting ballots takes time and because we have some any safeguards in place to prevent fraud, again, such as signature verification, unique bar codes and other tools, we have some very dedicated pull workers here, they deserve our appreciation and not our condemnation, for ensuring we get the count right. It is absolutely essential to get right and it is important to avoid fraud. 0f essential to get right and it is important to avoid fraud. Of course we dont have a history of very much fraud at all being surrounding mail in ballots. What percentage of the ballots that have been mailed in, that have been sent in, or being rejected, attorney general . In past elections, a higher proportion of ballots that are mailed in detroit nothing ballots that are cast on election day at polling stations. Are you seeing a lot of ballots being thrown out that have been mailed in . My apologies, but i cannot answer that question for you with any definite answer for seven falls within the realm of our local registrars again, that falls in. My understanding is there are a few that are thrown out in every election cycle, and my estimation is that would not be any different this time around. Attorney general, really good detail. Thank you so much forjoining us from the state of nevada. That is interesting. It is so interesting, this process. It is, as the attorney general there was saying. People are so impatient, but this is not being done by robots, these are people. And think about it you could write your signature down on one piece of paper, and then five days later, you write it on another piece of paper or does not match or it matches slightly, and then two have to decide, or those signatures close enough . And in some states, they can go back to the voter and give them a second chance. They can say, we spotted this irregularity, youre going to tell you about this so you can sign it again, in case you were ina hurry can sign it again, in case you were in a hurry or something. To hear the attorney general to slain that, and he is right, these workers deserve a lot of credit. It is not an easyjob and his massive stress and pressure they are going through, two on each of these ballots, orfashion, by hand. And if we go to recounts him but was he saying . November 16, by the time all of the votes wouldve been certified in nevada. I think it is from the 15th . It is the 15th in wisconsin, i think. Is from the 15th . It is the 15th in wisconsin, ithink. What is from the 15th . It is the 15th in wisconsin, i think. What are we today, the fourth . We are going to have may be at least a week of uncertainty around these votes and some of these contested Battle Ground states. And why would donald trump not call for a recount . If you is contesting the ballot, he is only going to call for a recount. The democrats are going to call wisconsin, we have pennsylvania, we are there. Hello there. High pressure brought us a quiet day of weather on wednesday. The best of this sunshine across england and wales where much of the day skies looked like these. However, there were a few showers around across the north of wales. Across northwest england and the West Midlands as well. In scotland and Northern Ireland clouds have been thickening towards the end of the afternoon. And that cloud is associated with this cloud you can see here on the satellite picture. So warm fronts brings the rain across northern scotland and once that rain has pushed through, we will start to get milder air coming in around this area of High Pressure. So temperatures will actually be rising through the night. Whereas across the heart of england and wales, the fronts are kept at bay. And here, its going to be a cold night with long clear spells, frost, temperatures getting down to about 3, 4 degrees in the coldest areas in the countryside and there will be some dense patches of fog. Whereas that rain band in scotland, well, it trickles into the far north of england whilst weakening, where, over the hills, i suspect there will be a bit of drizzle. Once that front is through, its a night where temperature will be rising through the night, and by the end of the night, it will be back to 11 degrees in glasgow. So a mild start to the day for much of scotland, Northern Ireland and the far north of england. Cold in the south, sunshine once the fog patches have lifted and the frost has melted away. As far as the temperatures go, well, as we go through thursday afternoon, broadly speaking, similar to what we had on wednesday, highs of around ten to 13 degrees, but it could turn quite mild for a time in aberdeenshire. If we see a bit of sunshine, those higher temperatures boosted by the fern effect. Thats the winds coming over the mountains. 0n into fridays forecast, another quiet day, High Pressure stilljust about clinging on. Again, a cold start across southern areas with a few mist and fog patches. Rather cloudy again across northwestern parts of the country. And later through friday afternoon, we will start to see the winds pick up across the south. And that can make it feel just a little bit cooler and fresher for a time. Although on the face of it, those temperatures similar values, highs ten to 13 degrees. Now, for this weekend, we are going to start to see the winds turn to a more southerly direction. And those southerly winds will be pushing in some slightly milder air. But its going to take a while for that milder air to mix into the weather in scotland, so here, it stays quite cool. Those temperatures slow to rise, but england and wales turning milder. 16 degrees or so in london. But there will be some cloud and rain around at times through the weekend as well. Youre watching bbc news with me, katty kay, in washington. Christian fraser is in london. Our top stories speaking in the last few minutes, joe biden said he believes he will be president when all the votes are counted. His message was one of reconciliation. We are campaigning as a democrat, but i will govern as an american president. President trump has unleashed his lawyers, hoping to maintain his lead in a few key states and keepjoe biden from winning the white house. How the polls got it wrong again. We speak to pollster frank luntz about why this feels a bit like 2016 and the overall future of political forecasting. And whoever wins the white house faces a Monumental Task when it comes to the us economy. Millions are out of work, and the country is divided over covid lockdowns. I want to bring you up with some figures which are changing our to our particularly in michigan and pennsylvania. We were telling you earlier in the programme thatjoe biden is pretty confident about pennsylvania and im watching the tally. So i told you at the top of our programme that he was leading in pennsylvania by 343,000 votes, donald trump. That was his lead over joe biden. Every ten minutes, that seems to be coming down. Its now at 320,000. In michigan, his lead is extending soon became on air, he was leading by around 30,000. And it has now gone up to 60,000 in michigan. Remember that donald trump only one michigan by 0. 3 , 11,000 remember that donald trump only one michigan by 0. 3 ,11,000 votes, so we do not have to go much to flip that back to blue. But you can see. And that would be more than what donald trump wanted by. Can i show you on the board . Yeah, get over to the board. Some American Networks are calling michigan, we are not there yet, our Sister Network cbs has not done that yet but everyone has access to their phones and some are calling out for joe biden at the moment. Thats if might not sound like very much but it is definitely more than the amount donald trump wanted by in 2016. I want to talk about what joe biden was talking about in pennsylvania because he says what they are now counting are in the early mail in balance and i show you this earlier. Its heavily skewed towards joe this earlier. Its heavily skewed towardsjoe biden. This earlier. Its heavily skewed towards joe biden. That this earlier. Its heavily skewed towardsjoe biden. That is from the exit poll. He is sailing they are winning the mail in ballot by 70 and im telling you that every ten minutes it is coming down in chunks. So when i went home last night in pennsylvania, 9am really, donald trump had a lead of 600000 and it is now down to around 320,000. So what joe biden is saying seems to want make sense from what we are still seeing in the ballot and there are still over 1 seeing in the ballot and there are still over1 million seeing in the ballot and there are still over 1 million votes seeing in the ballot and there are still over1 million votes to count. The reason i wanted to come to the board as we are talking about arizona and nevada and may a recount in nevada but we are going to put North Carolina in georgia probably. The attorney general was just saying to us he probably does not think there is a recount in nevada because there is too much distance there betweenjoe biden and donald trump. Im going off the fat because why would he not call for a recount because he is clearly not conceding the point i want to make is we dont even need to talk about that or that because if we plug in wisconsin which is already been called by the nets forjoe biden and michigan called by some already and thenif michigan called by some already and then if he takes that, its all over. Thats the point. You need to talk about all this where of course donald trump is preparing his lawyers. And where georgia is looking increasingly good actually. Forjoe biden, is it not . So it is so interesting because if we had been on air last night and said about midnight east coast time these results would come in, that we are seeing now, we would have been telling a very different story, you andi telling a very different story, you and i and andrew, about how this was looking forjoe biden. Even if he had just gotten wisconsin and michigan early on in the evening tomorrow night, it would have looked like a much more sort of blue wave that we had talked about. Yes, you are right, within each of the states the margins are smaller. These are not huge, they are not 4 5 percentage point victories thatjoe biden is getting but 60,000 is definitely more than the amount donald trump one michigan by back in 2016 but its not a blow out. But if you had had these results last night when we were still on air with our elections result programme, i think the whole tone of the conversation here in the us and for viewers watching around the world would have been very different. They would have woken up and said america seems to have elected joe biden and this is a repudiation of donald trump, the americans dont want him for another four years. As it is, we are in this vision were we cannot say we have gotten there becausejoe biden has not won yet but we are now hearing that michigan has been confirmed, christian, by our sister station cbs. I will save about what youre saying there is that if you think back to the start of our night night, we were saying actually that we we re night, we were saying actually that we were going to have to be patient with these because state law and each of these three. What the joe Biden Campaign is said all along. What they were looking for is a knockout blow in florida. No republican candidate has won the white house without winning florida all the way back to 1924 so if they had taken florida it was all over before the night had really begun. There was a good polling before the election date in georgia and North Carolina and they talk to that up the democrats we looked at those and thought if they go, its over before the night has begun but that played pretty well for donald trump. He said he had to get into the race at winning florida, georgia, North Carolina and everything in the south and sunbelt in fact but this wasjoe bidens first challenge. He had to build a blue wall around the great la kes. Build a blue wall around the great lakes. Minnesota and wisconsin were the first Building Blocks in that. Michigan and then pennsylvania really the icing on the cake. And you know, the theory ofjoe bidens case was always exactly that, right . We run in the primaries against all other democrats and against more progressive democrats and against a more diverse cable democrats, he was the old white guy, and the reason he said he could beat donald trump was because he could appeal to rural white voters. He could appeal to non College Educated white voters. He was the guy from scranton who understood White Working Class voters. He was the candidate back in 2016 who warned the Hillary Clinton campaign you are ignoring White Working Class voters at your peril and he turned out to have been right about that. And that is why he said to democrats during the course of the primaries go with me, i may be the primaries go with me, i may be the most exciting and im not the most diverse and im certainly not the most progressive but if you want to beat donald trump, on the gotta do it. Somewhere around midnight last night there were a lot of democrats who were starting to say is he the guy, do we make a terrible mistake was much should we have gone somebody more progressive or somebody more progressive or somebody more progressive or somebody more appealing . If these numbers fall into place, the way that the joe biden numbers fall into place, the way that thejoe Biden Campaign has sounded pretty confident that they would for the last 24 hours, then he will be vindicated in his candidacy. And plenty of evidence looking across all the Battle Ground states that yet again donald trump has run up that yet again donald trump has run up the account in the rural counties, in the least popular in counties. He gets out the vote. And the republicans talked about this. They warned us in wisconsin and pennsylvania in particular that their registrations were good and thats why they were pretty optimistic ahead of election day because they could see some of these figures, particularly in pennsylvania. Lets talk about polls. Pollsters are getting a lot of flack today. Once again, they overestimated how well democrats would do. Indeed. Just look at this going into the election, pollsters expected biden to comfortably take wisconsin with a sizable lead. Fast forward to today bidens projected to win the state, but its a much tighter race than expected. Frank luntz is a long time republican pollster. He willjoin us in the moment, but first, lets see what he told us about the polls back in early 0ctober. Its that he may reject the polling, and i dont. And i do believe that joe biden has a meaningful, measurable lead notjust nationwide because in america we vote based on electoral votes, not based on popular vote but hes got a lead in enough of the swing states and its a significant lead. But Hillary Clinton had exactly the same lead four years ago, which is why so many people still doubt whether biden car carr this through. Frank joins us now. I saw isawa i saw a tweet less now that you said the whole polling and if he should be fired but i hope you went looking for work now. Are you still thinking that but as these results coming in now more more from the rust belt states do you think the industry is vindicated . I still dont think so. Joe biden did not do what the polls projected into do in the swing states or nationwide. The average advantage that he had ever donald trump wasa advantage that he had ever donald trump was a present and he is right now living by 2 . I think when all the votes are counted, he will be up by maybe three or 3. 5 so he is half the level the pollsters expected him to be. And second is a should have seen there was going to be this incredible surge in turnout because it is notjust enough to measure who you are going to vote for, you have to explain why. You have to be able to explain why. You have to be able to measure intensity and passion and notjust simple to measure intensity and passion and not just simple voting because to measure intensity and passion and notjust simple voting because it has an impact on these various races. In the last thing is that the assumption was democrats were going to win five or six republican seats in the senate. The assumption was that they were going to capture the us senate and add another ten or 15 seats in the house on the opposite has happened. Republicans look like they are about to gain 5 10 seats in they are about to gain 5 10 seats in the house and have maintained the senate. I think the polling profession got it wrong and i think they got it wrong because they dont listen. They dont hear the intensity of this segment of the population and that statement does not like pollsters. That statement does not even want to take part in polling and you have got to control them and you have got to work with them and you have got to work with them to get them to engage you. So im not impressed with my profession right now. Is it really be a will is it remediable . Yes and i would give two examples. You have to make sure you get a right symbol of donald trump voters will that means in the introduction, in the first 15 seconds when someone clicks the e mail or seconds when someone clicks the e mailoryou make seconds when someone clicks the e mail or you make a seconds when someone clicks the e mail oryou make a phone seconds when someone clicks the e mail or you make a phone call, if to say to people this will be seen by people in power. You want it to be heard. You want to recognise. You wa nt be heard. You want to recognise. You want to be respected. This is what the survey will do and your voice and your opinions will go to the people who matter. That makes them twice as likely to participate. And second, if you turn us down and you will not do it, then who will speak 7 will not do it, then who will speak fyou will not do it, then who will speak up . If you want to be her, that you have got to principate so you empowerthem and you have got to principate so you empower them and you challenge them and this is not what traditional polling operations do these days also this is not what the networks did and not what the newspapers did. And it is why they were so wrong. Trump voters dont talk to pollsters, they dont principate. The people on social media have their official twitter page which they tweet from and some of them have an official twitter account where they say what they really feel. And thats anonymous. And i just wonder if pollsters need to do a bit of that, that if you are asking will how they feel, would it help people answer more honestly if they were doing it anonymously . The best way that i have found is i now use almost all my polling online. So there is no human being at the other end. It also allows me to measure the degree of how people feel. I can give them ten or 15 responses within just three or four. I think that online polling is more accurate because you are not feeling under pressure from responding to so many. You cannot see who is asking the questions. It is impersonal and in that sense it is confidential. Thats number one. A number two is that we actually do have to really analyse those shades of grey because nobody feels yes or no, right or wrong. Every question we want to answer we will say yes, but orono, but. When youre polling online can be you can capture nuance. But you cannot do that on a telephone pole. 0k, frank, thank you very much. People are asking questions about the parties and their industries and its really good to hear frank there being so honest about his and interesting about online polling. We are going to give you breaking news it is coming as well in terms of the Electoral College vote, we can now project thatjoe biden has won the state of michigan. That is 11 Electoral College vote and i think im right, 11 votes that he can add. He is inching towards that to 70. The margin at the moment is 61,000 votes between joe the margin at the moment is 61,000 votes betweenjoe biden and donald trump, donald trump took michigan by 11,000 votes back in 2016. Sojoe biden has got a bigger win there than donald trump had back in 2016 but its 16 Electoral College votes and not 11. Iwas but its 16 Electoral College votes and not 11. I was waiting and that was actually a test for christian but he did not respond. While we have been on air they have caught wisconsin and michigan. We should come again. Stuff is happening. Dont promise that too much. We have not. We havent seen the president so far today, but we have heard from him on twitter, questioning the reliability of the results. Of course, there is no evidence to suggest that there is any effort to manipulate the outcome of the election, despite what the president has been suggesting. They are counting the votes. That is what they do. Eric bolling is a friend of the president and anchor of america this week, which broadcasts across the Sinclair Broadcasting group, and hejoins us now. Great to have you with us. I was saying to katty, it looks reasonably good this morning at 9am when i went home and the rust belt but now pennsylvania going the same way as wisconsin and michigan. Is itjust a matter of time before the president concedes . I think michigan was a very important call if that is in fact. Mind you, there is very slim way the president can now remain president and it would have to be pennsylvania, North Carolina, probably have to flip arizona back because a lot of debate whether or not arizona is actually forjoe biden yet. Fox news called it very early in the campaign is pushing back and saying they called it too soon and they are sending the lawyers. I believe there will be lawyers. I believe there will be lawyers sent to michigan, pennsylvania and possibly arizona so its now out of the hands of the vote rs its now out of the hands of the voters and likely will be in the hands of the lawyers which is unfortunate. Our representatives and democracy here is one of the best systems in the world and for some reason we just cannot get our act together in america to vote and to count those votes accurately. Its just insane with a 20 trillion economy and we are still playing games with arties most Legal Commission account or not count or why are they like to have not seen anything like it. It is unprecedented. You have to say in a pandemic year it is unprecedented. And you must also accept surely that the two camps have different approaches on how to vote. Sojoe biden ran a very cautious campaign that he urged his voters to take precautions, to vote by mail. The president with the other way. He said vote in person, we dont like mail in voting so that is why it is changing in the midwest right now is because those votes that belong to joe biden and belonged to him throughout. If there had not been a pandemic, they wouldve been there at the polling stations, that is what they are counting now in those mail in ballots. What they are counting now in those mailin ballots. That part is true but dont forget some of the states, pennsylvania, North Carolina, petitioned the courts on the way up to the Supreme Court in some of theseissues to the Supreme Court in some of these issues to be able to count the votes after election day. Something about this. The third was our election day and most think it ends on november the 3rd and whatever we have and whatever people have in their is the data. That happens every year. But in 2016, wisconsin, arizona, michigan, states count of the day after the election. Its a ridiculous way of counting votes in 2021 have so Much Technology there should be a way that when the clock strikes midnight on the 3rd of november, whoever has made their vote count legally, thats it and thats not playing around with him and people are counting. Pennsylvania last night and one of the most important states in the union stopped counting votes at around 9pm last night and began to pick it up tomorrow. Why in the world that be the case . We spent four years trying to pick the next president and spend billions upon billions of dollars for a job that is so important and then they are going to take the night off because they need some rest. I did not get any rest. To be clear im not hearing you say there is fraud in his late bus we were saying system needs to be better and more efficient at counting the votes are coming in which is of course a very different thing. You the president. May ijust correct that. I am not saying there is fraud but i am saying there is fraud but i am saying that this system is rife for fraud if someone wants to go ahead and throw ballots out or not count those ballots. If you just make it technologically sound and do it with a drop dead time of midnight and it has to be some sort of valid way of voting. No one would claim fraud. I dont think there is fraud but you certainly have half of america, about 57 Million People who voted for it on think there could be fraud. We should just eliminate that. And to be fair, half a million or whatever it is people think that there might be fraud and whatever there might be fraud and whatever the president said last night about the president said last night about the fact that there is fraud and he had already won does not help that situation, does it . We are in a febrile atmosphere and the president saying this election is being stolen from me effectively is going to make his voters and his supporters think that it has been stolen even if it has not. 100 true that it has been stolen even if it has not. 10096 true and thats what im saying. Lets define the rules and make them very clear and lets make them consistent throughout the state. Now each state should have their own way of doing this but its just a sloppy system, when there are sloppy systems it opens up the question is something fraudulent about this . I also will take some thing else. If donald trump does decide they can pull this out come of the other side is going to claim the same thing. The biden camp is going to say we were up 8 going into the election and how can we possibly lose so there must be something fraudulent going on here. Interesting and people on this side ican interesting and people on this side i can tell you are asking the same questions. We have a very efficient vote count here in the uk and obviously its very different in some states at least in the us. Great to have you with us on the programme. Thank you. Sure. Iwill add it is a Republican Legislature in pennsylvania and they were working with the president and his surrogates on the mail in ballots. The law was they would have be processed until the day of the election and they could have changed that law and on what florida does and process them three weeks in advance. Wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania with the public and legislatures pushed in order to delay the start of the mail in vote cou nts delay the start of the mail in vote counts and that is why we are in the situation now that we are in. Lets have a quick look at the economy. President trump has long made the case that hes the best man to bring americas economy roaring back and has claimed thatjoe biden would shut the nation down. Mr biden has insisted that he has helped heal the economic wounds of a nation once before, during the Great Recession of the 0bama presisency, and he can do it again. Lets turn now to austan goolsbee, whos a professor of economics at chicago booths school of business and former chairman of the council of economic advisers. If there was ever a poisoned chalice, this is the poisoned chalice, this is the poisoned chalice ifjoe biden does take the white house. Indeed. In 20082009 come out of the meeting where president obama, we come in and briefed him and here is what is about to happen in the economy and he says is it too late to ask for a recount . After he has won the election. Ifjoe recount . After he has won the election. If joe biden recount . After he has won the election. Ifjoe biden is declared the winner, we are going to have likely a very similar situation with a deep downturn and congress that has got probably republicans and control of the senate trying to block all of the moves that a President Biden will try to put forward. So it would definitely be a high degree of difficulty. remember at the beginning the Campaign Democrats are very happy forjoe biden to cast in the sort of roosevelt image that he was going to come in with a thumping majority and was going to get a stimulus package and restart the economy is a did in 2008. When you look at what has happened, the events of the last 24 hours, the thin margin of the victory if it is a victory, the fact that they have not when the senate and the fact that there is not a relief package in place, why are his chances . I think his ambition would still be to do what is needed for the economy. I think of the things that you described, by far the most important where the rubber hits the road would be if the democrats do not have control of the senate. Because mitch mcconnell, the leader of the senate on the republican side, has shown many times that he is willing to shut down everything to try to prevent a democratic president from getting his way. The victory, ifjoe president from getting his way. The victory, if joe biden president from getting his way. The victory, ifjoe biden wins this victory, ifjoe biden wins this victory, it will be narrow only in the Electoral College sense. I mean he will have won by 5 million votes or Something Like that. There is no in which the message is something other than the majority of americans are behind him but it would just be because of the system we have that they would be narrowly electoral couege they would be narrowly Electoral College done. Why was this so hard forjoe biden . Why was it hard to win the election . Yeah. I mean, the poles were in your direction and there is a huge pandemic in the economy has done badly under donald trump. Should this not have been fairly simple . In a way, yes. Though you know there is a deep philosophical question behind that question that i am not really an expert to answer. That is everything has become so politicized to win a believable degree, even the description of the data, is the economy growing or in trouble . We split on partisan lines. Sol economy growing or in trouble . We split on partisan lines. So i think you see that reflected in the results. It is all about partisanship. Im sorry, we are coming to the end of the programme but thank you very much forjoining us. Hello there. Wednesday brought us quiet weather across the uk. The best of the sunshine was across england and wales, where, in hampshire, combined with the still winds, you had some beautiful reflections of the autumnal colours at hawley lake. Now, further north, the cloud has been gathering across scotland and Northern Ireland, with skies like these looking rather more threatening. Now, that cloud is associated with this cloud here on the satellite picture, and this, actually, this curve here, is a warm front thats ultimately going to be bringing milder air in across the north of the uk, behind this warm front you can see on the charts here. Further southwards, no weather fronts across the bulk of england and wales. The High Pressure remains in charge. But it means that thursday morning starts off on a cold note, with some frost and a few dense patches of fog to watch out for, as well. Now, therell probably be a slice across central areas, particularly Northern England, where it could well be rather cloudy, perhaps with an odd spot of drizzle left over from that very weak weather front, the drizzly weather mostly up over the high ground in the pennines. Quite a bit of cloud for the north west, the best of the sunshine for southern portions of england and wales and perhaps eastern scotland, where it could turn quite mild thanks to the foehn effect boosting temperatures here. Now, on into thursday evening and overnight, again well have a few fog patches forming, particularly across england and wales, and its here where well see the lowest temperatures, again low enough to give a touch of frost in the countryside. Further northwards, with a bit more in the way of cloud, the temperatures not quite so low. Those are between around six and nine degrees across the far north west. Now, for friday, High Pressure stays with us, so the weather continues to be rather quiet. There probably will be some cloud drifting northwards with time but equally, some spells of sunshine. And one other change you might notice on friday afternoon is that the winds are going to start to strengthen across southern areas, and for a time that could make it feeljust a little bit cooler and fresher. 0n into the weekend, though, well see some further changes. Eventually, the winds will turn more to a southerly direction, and were going to start to get some milder air drifting up from the south. But that milder air is going to take a long time to mix into the weather in scotland, so here it starts off the weekend quite cool. Saturday, then, some rain around, particularly across Western Areas of the uk, but probably no great amounts, and for most of us there will be some sunshine around, at least at times. And with those southerly winds, itll start to turn much milder, particularly across england and wales, highs 14 in cardiff, 16 in london. But notice, still quite cool for the time being in scotland, with highs of around nine degrees or so. Those temperatures will continue to drift upwards on sunday, but as well as that well have a lot of cloud for most areas and further outbreaks of rain. And the rain always looks heaviest across Western Areas, but you do have a greater chance of seeing rain at times for Northern England and across the bulk of scotland, as well. Temperatures up a degree or two in scotland, ten or 11 degrees here. Further south its mild, 15 or 16 degrees. If we see some sunshine breaking through for the afternoon, it wont feel too bad. Into next week, thejet stream taking this kind of a pattern initially, but then we see some changes as we head towards tuesday and wednesday, with this cut off low developing towards iberia. These always throw us a degree of uncertainty in the forecast. We can define the uncertainty as the amount of rain that were likely to see. It does look like well see some pushing northwards on monday and tuesday, but how heavy its going to be and exactly where is open to a degree of uncertainty. However, it looks like it will be mild early next week, with highs between 13 and 16 degrees. Tonight at 10pm, the latest from washington, where the most divisive president ial battle of modern times has yet to produce a winner. Donald trump has outperformed the pollsters predictions, but the race could go either way, and hes claiming without evidence that the election is being stolen. This is a fraud on the american public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election. Cheering within the past hour, joe biden, the democratic candidate, has expressed confidence and called for patience until all the votes have been counted. We, the people, will not be silenced