Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News At Five 20170512

A coroner rules that 14 year old nasar ahmed died as a result of an allergic reaction to his school lunch his mother says he could have been saved. Police figures show that more than 2,500 weapons were seized in schools in england and wales over the past two years, including swords, axes and air guns. Chelsea will be crowned premier League Champions if they beat west brom at the hawthorns this evening. Its 5 00pm. Our top story the National Health service says it is responding to a major cyber attack which has affected hospitals and doctors surgeries across england. 16 nhs organisations have been hit. It has problems with Phone Networks and has led to a number of organisations having to divert emergency patients. Among those affected are barts trust in london, the lister hospital in stevenage, nhs sites in blackburn, blackpool, and nottingham, and Cumberland Infirmary in carlisle. This is the message that appears on the screen when an nhs member of staff tries to use their computer, it is called a Ransomware Attack. They block the computer and demands a ransom in order to reading access. Ina a ransom in order to reading access. In a statement in the last hour, nhs did has said. In the last few minutes, we have learned that a large and abrupt Spanish Companies have been affected. 0ur Correspondent Helena Lee is outside st bartholomews hospital in the city of london. We are, as you say, outside Barts Hospital in london. The trust has four hospitals. This is one of the hospitals which has been affected by this major it system failure. This cyber attack. They are clearly very busy inside the hospital and cannot come out to give us any kind of statement, however they have said that they are experiencing a major it disruption, and there are delays that all of their hospitals. They say they have activated here and at the other hospitals a Major Incident plan to make sure that they can maintain the safety and welfare of patients. Here at barts and the other two hospitals under the barts trust, the other had to cancel routine appointments. They also say that if any patients are coming to these hospitals in an ambulance and these hospitals in an ambulance and the ambulances are going to be diverted elsewhere, because they simply cannot bring patients into these hospitals that i been affected, know the hospitals that have been affected, 16 hospital trusts. They will have some kind of Back Up System in place, but what they will have to resort to is a paper based system, which clearly will bring about a number of difficulties, in terms of patients coming into the hospital, doctors, co nsulta nts, coming into the hospital, doctors, consultants, nurses wont have access to patients past records, blood tests, x rays. It will be a slow system going on inside these hospitals and a very difficult one. In terms of the other hospitals and a e in terms of the other hospitals and a e departments, they are saying to patients not to go to a e u nless to patients not to go to a e unless it is absolutely necessary. They are clearly working as hard as they can to try and get this sorted out. Thank you, helen. The latest at saint barts, just one of those affected. We will talk to our Health Correspondent in a moment. It is worth bringing you up to date on what the latest developments are all the time. Some news coming through from nhs services in scotland, because we thought it was only nhs england affected. We had not had any reports from any problems in scotla nd reports from any problems in scotland and wales, but we are hearing that some services in scotla nd hearing that some services in scotland have been affected. Some gp and Dental Practices we are told affected in the nhs Dumfries And Galloway area, also the forth valley area. Both Health Boards telling us in the last few minutes that steps are being taken to minimise the risk of the problem is spreading. That is what is being said. Dumfries and galloway and forth valley. Those are the reports we have so far from scotland. Keeping an eye on this, because this is only began in the last hour and a half or two are ago. Developments all the time. Our Health Correspondent has been monitoring this. Should we start by saying that at this stage, the nhs is keen to say that patient data isnt accessed. Patients individual medical records not affected here. What they have said is that as far as the know, the malware hasnt gone in antigone Patient Records. There is no evidence of that at the moment. The also say this is the very early stage of an investigation and be working with the number of National Agencies in order to try and improve things. The National Cyber Security Centre, the Department Of Health nhs england, nhs digital, which is in of Cyber Security for the nhs. If we again Ta Ke Security for the nhs. If we again take a moment about what it actually means in reality. You might be in a deep key surgery, in a hospital, what does actually mean . We have had reports from medical who say, for example, one a e doctors said that at tpm today, all the Computer Screens went black. That happened in a hospital. Whether that was because of the malware getting into the system and turning them black or whether his hospital had decided to Tiny Computers off to stop infection spreading, wejust dont Tiny Computers off to stop infection spreading, we just dont know. Tiny computers off to stop infection spreading, wejust dont know. We have heard from doctor is the message that has come up on the screen of this ransomware is basically saying that they want 300 within three days. You have to pay in order to be access your Computer System and if you dont get it within those three days, sorry, within those three days, sorry, within seven days, then the records will be lost. That is the threat from this malware. Yes, that is the act of threat that appears on the screen. Act of threat that appears on the screen. We might have a shot on that, but we will talk a bit more on the technical side of this in a moment. Lets focus on patients. We heard a little from hell another. I suppose what is the point is that it varies depending on where you live. Some hospitals are not affected. There are many that are not affected. In buckinghamshire and swindon, they are not affected. There are also 16 organisations within the nhs that i affected within the nhs that i affected within those there will be a number of different hospitals, gp surgeries etc. It means they cannot access Patient Records and cannot order test results. They cant check test results and so for example, a hospital in east london, the royal london is saying that all elective operations, all its planned operations, all its planned operations for tomorrow have been cancelled and it having to send Trauma Patients to a different area. It has been unable to access its data from its pathology labs. That is where all the testing goes on. They are a very important bits of information which are essential for treating patients. If patients needing to to a hospital where they are needing to to a hospital where they a re really needing to to a hospital where they are really affected by this, that is are really affected by this, that is a real problem. They need to contact the hospital and find out where to go instead. Jury are on friday evening, if you have got some surgery evening, if you have got some Surgery Books in first thing Monday Morning, as opposed at going to be tricky for a patient to know what to do. All of the advice varies geographically, but is there is some generic advice for someone at the moment who might be thinking, is my operation going ahead . All those hours of questions. It is too early to say. At least there is the weekend now. Most planned operations will be Monday Morning. It might give the nhs a chance to catch up possibly. It is that early days. This only happened in the last few hours. Thank you very much for now. Lets talk more about this fire is itself and what this all means. Joining me from Central London is the director of future conflict and Cyber Security at the International Institute of cyber studies. A broad brush first of all, your thoughts about this malware and the fact that it has attacked something as fundamental to resist id as the nhs, albeit suggestions that it has not deliberately targeted it . Albeit suggestions that it has not deliberately targeted mm albeit suggestions that it has not deliberately targeted it . It looks to me as if the initial reports are still coming in, but it looks as if this is a fairly classic example of ra nsomwa re on the this is a fairly classic example of ransomware on the basis of the information we have the moment. Criminals getting into the networks and then encrypting the data so that the users can no longer access it and demanding payments, normally any form of Something Like bit colin, which is hard to trace. This kind of attack has become much more prevalent of late. It wouldnt surprise me that something of this sort might happen. It is however a bit surprising, because giving the prominent since aliens at this development has now attracted, the likelihood of anyone paying a ransom seems to have much diminished. 0ne cant help wondering what the thought process is of the Attackers Acting was. Given that the message appears on the screen says we want £300 in three days or you will be able to Access Anything on this computer and nhs digital thinks that the nhs was not specifically targeted, but of the whole point of this is a financial gain, ijust wonder whether People Watching will wonder whether People Watching will wonder why the people doing it dont target a very rich, wealthy companies for example. We dont know. The fact is, they may well do. A lot of these attacks are not reported. People pay up and move on. Its very difficult to get an idea of what the size of this problem is. I hadnt realised that the figure involved were as low as this. That again causes me to wonder. That does meet moscow cause me to wonder the extent of the targets. Are these attacks ever, without wishing to minimise, because this is having an amish ramifications, can these things sometimes be extremely bright teenagers wanting a challenge . This is having enormous ramifications. That can happen. We had a major attack on the uk talk talk company and it turned out to be two script children in their bedrooms. It is possible. I think most ra nsomwa re bedrooms. It is possible. I think most Ransomware Attacks tend to be undertaken by the higher end of the criminal fraternity. A lot of Cybercriminal T is low grade opportunistic with people buying exploits In The Dark Net without understanding how they work and simply using them to engage in low level criminality. Ransomware attacks tend to be undertaken by the more sophisticated organised element. A quick thought as well about what it says about the Security Systems that are or are not operating on those who have been attacked, but it is striking that some trusts are affected and some are not. I think with the nhs generally, there is a lot of these trusts in excess of 40, are using windows xp software. This is a softwa re windows xp software. This is a Software System that is no longer supported by microsoft, in other words microsoft are no longer looking for Security Flaws and seeking to repair them. I think that is an issue that is going to need to be looked at. Thank you so much for your time be looked at. Thank you so much for yourtime and be looked at. Thank you so much for your time and forjoining us so quickly it tonight from the International Institute for strategic studies. Thank you. Thank you. Lets get more on this now with our technology correspondent, i dont know whether you join with an update. Whats being said on forums and so on about what this is all who might be behind it . Nhs digital thinks it might be a strain of ransomware digital thinks it might be a strain of ra nsomwa re called digital thinks it might be a strain of ransomware called Wanna Decryptor which is a form of ransomware that has been cracked in the past. It may be possible for them to remove it without paying the ransom being asked for. How much do we know about. We were hearing a little bit there about the sort of people who might be behind it . Where i debased . Do we know internationally, how much do we know about this sort of attack . Very little. It is telling that the asked for their ransom in an online currency which means that you can pay it into someones wallet in the internet and not be able to trace in 20. Rather than an online transfer using a bank, the bank would be straight on to the Police Telling them who is behind it, not necessarily possible this way. Nigel said that some nhs computers may be running older versions of Operating Systems and you might wonder why they are doing that, well Companies Often build very spoke software that is accessible exclusively to their needsis accessible exclusively to their needs is very expensive to build your own software. We use some at the bbc to script our bulletins, very old sometimes. If you have that and the microsoft update and it no longer works, some Companies May then go, lets stay with the old version of windows for now, because it will cost a fortune to be developed this. That can sometimes leave the back open to security breaches. There is no proof that that has happened in this case. Good security can sometimes be about resources. Security can sometimes be about resources. Because its about keeping on top of it all the time. The hackers are always one step ahead. You need to constantly upgrade your system, which costs money. You cannot expect every person in an organisation to be computer savvy. 0ften person in an organisation to be computer savvy. Often people open them in e mail attachments. We kind of all know that you shouldnt do that, but its still very easy to fool people and get them to download them think they shouldnt. When something is any system, it is very easy to spread. We dont not how it got into the nhs system, but as we know, it is probably not targeted specifically at the nhs. It seems to be targeting a lot of companies by somebody doing a big boost to see what they can get. Do we have any idea of the sense about how many of these attacks might be in a year . 0ur these attacks might be in a year . Our last guest was alluding to the fa ct our last guest was alluding to the fact that some Companies Might pay up fact that some Companies Might pay up and never tell anyone, not reported. Hard to put a number on it, but in the time i have been reporting on things that the bbc, this has come up time and time again where companies have fallen victim to this. There was one in america where government computers, 1000 government computers, got infected and he said at the time it was going back 25 years, because they had go back 25 years, because they had go back to pen and paper, they could and Emergency Services calls, because we take so much on computers now. They had to go back to pen and paper, it took the county in ohio days to sort it out, so hopefully the nhs can do is upping a bit quicker. Thank you, chris. I know you will give us up to date. This is affecting a large number of hospitals, roads trusts, gp surgeries, but not all as we know. We have been trying to get a sense of the impact of all of this. We have been talking to a gp at Wingate Medical Centre in liverpool and he explained the size we hope the attack was affecting services where he works. We operate exclusively on paper, very little paper in the building. Usually coming in from other places. 0ur usually coming in from other places. Our entire patient dress code is accessed via computer, blood results, history, medicines, most of our prescribing is done electronically. We dont use prescriptions unless a patient specifically chooses. The rest of centre pharmacies. That is not able be accessed. Patients are understanding of the know that they have a problem which can wait till next week. Hopefully this will have died down and we can deal with them. If they do have to be seen, we are seeing people now, we are doing that on the basis of good Old Fashioned clinical practice. Tell me what is up clinical practice. Tell me what is up with you, have you heard this before . What can we do . Working in a proper general practice styled to see we can do. Dealing with patients ona see we can do. Dealing with patients on a case by case basis. See we can do. Dealing with patients on a casebycase basis. That was one specific oh example of how it is affecting a gp surgery in liverpool. We tried to keep up to date with all of this, because development is coming to all the time. Worth reminding youi coming to all the time. Worth reminding you i think of the lines of Information Act came through from Scotla Nd Of Information Act came through from scotland in the last 15 minutes or so, because of you been following this story as it has developed over the course of the afternoon, you will know that it was very much only nhs england affected first on time, but we have heard of some impact on nhs services in scotland. Some gp and Dental Practices have been affected within nhs Dumfries And Galloway and also nhs forth valley areas. Both health board they are telling us that steps are being taken to minimise the risk of the problem spreading. This is the curious situation, the difficult situation that so many help organisations are in. There are some parts of the country unaffected and others that have been affected really quite badly. Nhs digital is investigating this cyber attack. That investigation is already underway. It would appear. Lets stay with this, of course, and talk to this man who has worked with the government in the field of Cyber Security and is a visiting fellow at nottingham university. Thank you for joining us here tonight. The scale of this, first of all. Your initial broad thoughts on this attack and the fact that it is something as sensitive as the nhs, which has been affected . Sensitive as the nhs, which has been affected . I think this is one of the most significant attacks that the uk has experienced. Its significant because it has got into the nhs network. The nhs of course is one of primary services, life threatening services if we dont have it. Somehow, and it mayjust be a supplier to the nhs, it could be one of the It Organisations that support the nhs, somehow a document or another file the nhs, somehow a document or anotherfile containing the nhs, somehow a document or another file containing this malware has got into the system and im guessing by the way its spreading that the way that nhs Services Share documents, it was using that route to spread and infect. Initially nhs england and now possibly scotland. There are reports in other places like spain there are possible reports that there is this same virus. The malware affecting them. The fact that it has affected some hospitals and not others, some trusts and not others, is thatjust luck or a chance on the part of those that have not yet been hit . 0r is it that some trusts will have a com pletely is it that some trusts will have a completely different Security Setup to others . How much do they differ . It is too early to tell. It isnt really that what ever file or document this malware is piggybacking on has not arrived in that trust thats not been affected, or if it has arrived, people havent opened it, because they are obviously allowed to this and some of those trusts may have taken steps to minimise the number of files and documents that can be used. There are certain measures you can take to make yourself less vulnerable. There area number of make yourself less vulnerable. There are a number of things it could be. At this stage, we really dont know, because we dont know how its transporting itself at this age. You have advised the British Government precisely on the size of issues, whats advice would have been given or is being given that the lead Actor Something as vital as the National Health service . Actor something as vital as the National Health service . |j Actor Something as vital as the National Health service . I have advised on very specific issues that specific times, but what i would suggest is, review the resources. The resources that resist in the nhs of Cyber Security. People tell me that they have some very, very good people that there are only possibly as few as the handful. Clearly, this sort of attack is something that needs a huge amount of resources. I think that also what i would be looking to see is how the National Cyber Security Centre performance in trying to triangulate this attack to find out where its coming from. If it is coming from a multiple number of sources, it makes it in some ways easier to find the source. It is very likely, this is not one person, but a group or a gang doing this, then again, the chances of detection increase. I think all all those reasons, we would hope the National Cyber Security Centre can show its worth. I dont think that the people doing this were so stupid that they would have attacked the nhs knowing the effect it would have and the response it may have. I think that they probably attract a small company, assuming that they would get a small amount of money, but it got into the nhs system and only have the full power of the state against them, because obviously, the government cannot afford for this sort of thing to happen and be success. Thats interesting. It easy getting the getting into the nhs could be accidental . If this is done purely for financial gain, doesnt it stand to reason that your wing to target a ftse 100 it stand to reason that your wing to target a ftse100 company that might have more resources than the nhs . That is where the make a lot of money. Graphite lot of success. As mentioned earlier, very often and i have worked with commercial companies and its shocking how little some companies will invest in this and sometimes, they make a decision, a very prudent decision, that it decision, a very prudent decision, thatitis decision, a very prudent decision, that it is more Cost Effective to pay the ransom than paid what might be ten times more to secure against it. Ina be ten times more to secure against it. In a long time, those Financial Decisions are and the two pay a larger place in the long term. Thats one of the reasons why i would add that these people move this would happen. They probably sent it to another company and it sucked into the nhs system as a result of that. Now we have to take this whole matter a lot more seriously. Thank you for your expertise. A view more details coming through. First from our health editor, hugh pym, who tells us health editor, hugh pym, who tells us that nhs england has declared a Major Incident following this attack. It is understood up to 35 nhs organisations could have been affected, as well as some gp practices. Up to 25 and nhs england has declared a Major Incident. Specifically nhs england, because of course it was initially only be nhs in england that was affected, but in the last 30 minutes or so, we have been getting reports from various parts of scotland that there has been some impact there as well. On that note, we are just hearing from nhs Greater Glasgow and clyde that is telling us that four gp practices have experienced disruption to their it systems. That is how it is being described. The rest of that area u naffected. Described. The rest of that area unaffected. Just those four gp practices at this stage. That is the impact there. Those are the latest details coming through. Lets find out is that we have it is impacting various medical professions. I am joined on the phone by a gp in dundee. Thank you so much for your time. You still at your surgery . Can you expect was happening where you are . When you first begin with me. We are still here at the surgery. We try to disseminate the information locally, but we are having significant issues with our it systems. We cannot access any Patient Records, the Subscription Requests are just able to deal with them. The surgery is open, but we have very limited services that we can pervade to people. Some people are still coming into the desk, people still phoning the surgery and we are advising them as best we can. If people have a cute things, emergency things, luckily that hadnt been the case this afternoon, but we would have to deal with it. Everything else is completely blocked to us. We cannot Access Anything. Not the fact that you cannot Access Anything, forgive me ifiam cannot Access Anything, forgive me if i am talking about Old Fashioned systems, but if you have a Patient Sitting in front of you and you want to offer them some advice, but you need to look up some history or check prescription, is all that Information 100 digital or do you have records that anything else we could look that up . We have for a long time in primary care been a pa perless long time in primary care been a paperless system. All of the Patient Records are held on the computer and anything paper is historical. It is old records. All of the up to date information is held on the computers. We obviously can print out the information if we need to, but we cannot access them to be able to do that. We do have the advantage in primary care that we know the vast majority of our patients pretty well. I saw a lady today who i know very well, she was here expecting to see one of my colleagues, but because i know her very well, i was able to do with her problem. Because i know her medical history. I think we do have that advantage in primary ca re we do have that advantage in primary care for most of our patients. We have been able to deal with most things as they have cropped up. We can obviously prescribe things to people, we can do handwritten prescriptions to people, but lots of our patients are on very complex combinations of drugs and its not possible to remember all of them. The patient dont necessarily remember them either. There is a danger in not being able to access that information that this could potentially cause harm to people. Its really worrying for us and for the patients. Its friday evening now. Im assuming you and your colleagues think this has to be sorted out over the weekend so that come Monday Morning, you can try to get back to normal. Weve got contingency in place for Monday Morning so that if the system is not up and running, then we will be able to do something about that, so if people are phoning us about that, so if people are phoning us to ask for appointments, they will be able to come and sit in the surgery and it will be first come, first served. The it service locally is very much an issue and they are going to be sending somebody out over the weekend to try to get our system over the weekend to try to get our syste m u p over the weekend to try to get our system up and running. What we dont know is how many other practices might become involved. We know there are at least three others in dundee and another one in perth, but whether there are more now, we dont know. We dont know what will happen with the out of Hours Service, either, as we dont know if they are affected. You have preempted me there, because i talk about us turning up to work on Monday Morning, but of course, if someone needs help over the weekend, what is your advice . What are you saying to people . The usual advice applies. If people . The usual advice applies. If people are acutely unwell, they must seek medical advice and nhs 24 is still there. The out of Hours Service will still be operational, accident and emergency will still be operational, its just accident and emergency will still be operational, itsjust a question of how much information we will be able to source all people. What we have advised people to do or will be advising people to do when they phone up on monday if our systems are still down is that they bring any information may have with them to the surgery, particularly related to the surgery, particularly related to medication. So, for example, if people get their drugs in a blister pack from the pharmacy, then they can bring that along with them, so at least we have some information. Routine things, if its not an emergency, if its something that can wait, we will hopefully be able to accommodate those people, but there will clearly be a Knock On Effect with appointments for people who need to come and see us later in the week. People are very understanding. I think they understanding. I think they understand from the News Coverage and what we can explain to them that this is completely unforeseen and we will do everything we can to look after people as best we can and as safely as we can as well. Of course. Its really, really good of you to talk to us and give us your time at a very tricky time for all of you, so a very tricky time for all of you, so thank you very much. Thank you. A gp that in dundee talking about the impact at her particular gp surgery. Lets talk a little bit more about this software, this virus. Ed wallis hasjoined me. Hes an Internet Security expert. Thank you for coming in. Your thoughts on the scale of this and the fact that its the nhs. Its a very interesting question. The nhs gets Ransomware Attacks an awful lot, and the system is not normally affected. It seems that a System Underpinning the nhs has been affected. Youve already said something fascinating there, that the nhs has been hit by this sort of virus before. Do people keep quiet about it or do people just not talk about it if its small scale . There have been a number of ra nsomwa re there have been a number of Ransomware Attacks against the nhs and Health Services in the us. Stories do come out but they dont attract significant attention. Most attacks arent targeted on large organisations and thats because the amount of money you can still from someone amount of money you can still from someone in the way of a Ransom Payment is very limited, which is also one of the ways why more sophisticated groups tend not to target large Scale Structures such as the nhs. And the fact that this is far more widespread than something we have seen before, is that Luck Orjudgment something we have seen before, is that luck or judgment as something we have seen before, is that Luck Orjudgment as far as the people carrying out the attack see it . Thejury is people carrying out the attack see it . The jury is still out and of course there are lots of investigations. 0ne course there are lots of investigations. One of the questions still outstanding is whether it is connected to the m3 network, and the Ransom Attacks on telefonica. They we re Ransom Attacks on telefonica. They were hit with large scale attacks today as well. It was a different version than Wanna Decryptor, and theres no to suggest that is what got into the system, but if either through luck or design, theyve accidentally got into the n3 backbone, they could have included a lot of systems without realising they had done so. Ed wallis, thank you very much. Please stay with us. Were just having some problems with your microphone and we really want to hear what you are saying clearly, so we to hear what you are saying clearly, so we will try to fix that. We are focusing on a story which has broken in the last couple of hours and it isa in the last couple of hours and it is a huge cyber attack on much of the nhs. It began purely with nhs in england, and within the last hour we have been getting reports of impacts in parts of scotland as well. It is not, however, infecting every single trust or hospital or gps surgery. Nhs england telling us thinks about 25, up to 25 have been affected, 25 areas have been affected. Eight view more in scotland as well. The nhs england has. Excuse me, ithink more in scotland as well. The nhs england has. Excuse me, i think it is nhs digital that has launched an investigation. There is of course an nhs investigation already underway to find out exactly what had happened. Its known as the ra nsomwa re happened. Its known as the Ransomware Attack happened. Its known as the Ra Nsomwa Re Attack and happened. Its known as the Ransomware Attack and essentially this image that youre looking at on the screen is what perhaps the doctor or a nurse or someone the screen is what perhaps the doctor or a nurse or someone working ina gps doctor or a nurse or someone working in a gps practice, thats the message they will get on their Screen Message they will get on their screen it simply prevents them from accessing any information at all and it says, we want a ransom within three days or you will not have access to your information. That is in essence what we are talking about. It will as is with me ed wallis is with me and can explain in more detail what exactly is happening. You were explaining that there have been small attacks on the nhs in the past but nothing like this. Can we also take a moment to explain to viewers, if we know, where these people are based . How much do we know about the organisations that do this . There are organisations that do this . There a re lots of organisations that do this . There are lots of criminal groups involved in this malware and they divide themselves into different brackets. There groups that create ransomware for people to buy and use but they tend not to carry out attacks themselves. They create them instead. What that means is thereafter a Broad Spectrum of people capable of doing this. You could be a criminal and go and buy ra nsomwa re could be a criminal and go and buy ransomware yourself could be a criminal and go and buy ra nsomwa re yourself and could be a criminal and go and buy ransomware yourself and it could go to someone and encrypt their machine. At the upper end of the scale, you have got people who are very familiar with technical experts in Computer Systems and sometimes they use other tools that have been released, like shadow broke at all sites that were released, and we have seen exploits from shadow broke out in ra nsomwa re have seen exploits from shadow broke out in Ransomware Attacks like this. The fact that it has happened and a p pa re ntly the fact that it has happened and apparently worked, what does that tell us about the Security Systems of those that are affected . It sounds like a very simple question, but i suppose im saying, is protecting your systems, is it a lwa ys protecting your systems, is it always the question of money and resources or how much of it is about the way us as human beings use all our technology. Another excellent question. How you use your Technology Becomes very relevant for a home user. Its about being safe. If you have a large system like the nhs with a lot of Old Computers and legacy systems, where that has not been money to upgrade them, its much, much more difficult. For walker macys aids like that, its about having the right defence the organisations like that, its about having the right defence to detect the attacks and prevent them. Ed wallis, thank you very much for joining us. We will keep very much up joining us. We will keep very much up today with this story, of course, with details coming through all the time. Right now, it is exactly 22 six. We will catch up with the weather prospects as we approach the weekend. Good evening. We have got a mixed bag out there this afternoon and this evening. 0vernight tonight, still some showers around, but i think for some bus they become fewer and further between. The south eastern corner, drying up all the but it could be wet in western areas. Later on in the night, we see showers could be no way toward the south coast. Not a cold night by any stretch. 11 or 12 degrees for many. 0n into the first part of the weekend and it will be a great old start for the north east and outbreaks of rain for the north and west. Not too much in the way of rainfall but the south eastern corner. Largely dry, and warm and 19 or 20 degrees. You could see the odd rumble of thunder at the other end of the country. Rain will be making its way west to east in northern ireland, but that should clear away by sunday morning. Sunday looks like being bright and breezy with sunshine but also some showers. Good evening. You are watching bbc news. We are staying with the story that has dominated here in the last few hours. A cyber attack affecting perhaps up to 25 nhs operations with in england, Mining Operations in the sense of institutions, and also a factor affecting nhs services and Dental Practices in scotland. Nhs digital has launched an investigation into this and to explain, what you are seeing on your screen explain, what you are seeing on your screen is the image medical practitioners are getting when their technology has been impacted. It essentially locks all their computers, they can do absolutely nothing, capture no information whatsoever. There is nothing they can do. They cant pull up Patient Records, so its causing a fair degree of problems, which are varying in severity, i have to say. Its an extremely patchy picture. Lets go to our correspondent in york who can bring us more on the situation there. What are the medics where you are saying about the impact tonight . York Teaching Hospitals trust runs hospitals in york and scarborough had we been hearing from patients who attended appointments today and have had problems. One man said, because the doctors couldnt access his records, he couldnt have the hearing test he needed. Another patient said shed been told the comeback on tuesday. She needed an x ray. Were all also hearing of people who are due to have scans being told not to attend and problems dispensing prescriptions at the hospital as well. 0ther prescriptions at the hospital as well. Other patients have said doctors are using pens and paper to make notes because they cannot access the it system. We also know the hospital had tweeted and put a message on their website asking patients not to attend accident and emergency in york and scarborough, to think twice about it, to see whether they really need to attend. We know gps services have also been told to turn off their it systems so that this malware doesnt spread and the server is the surgeries are Making Appointments by pen and paper instead. I think it is worth repeating, if Someone Isjust joining us and they have a friend or relative or they have an appointment, they are unsure what to do crucially tonight, what is the key advice for patients, poor relatives if they have appointments coming up or they have relatives in hospital . What are they saying . The trust is saying, if you need to go to accident and emergency, please think twice about that. They are also saying they are investigating this problem. The key thing to do is to check with the Hospital Department is the if you can attend your appointment and they will advise you further. The key advice is, if you need accident and emergency, think twice, do you really need to be there . Doctors i have heard from patients seem to be dealing with this as best they can, but people are being told they records cant be accessed by the doctors trying to treat them. Thanks very much indeed. The latest there in york. It is interesting, talking about the variable nature of this, the extent to which places are or not are not affected. Interesting information just not are not affected. Interesting informationjust coming