they found out, a simple example that simply effective is going into emergency rooms where the person has just been shot, and usually the person who is a victim of these is also frequently a perpetrator, a rival gang member. that's where the person is reconsidering their choices, and the gangs typically have to one up each other — and they don't really want to, they are looking for a way to de—escalate but they can't because they don't talk to each other. and these programmes can often de—escalate before it gets out of control and more murders happen over the ensuing weeks, which almost always happens. so that's one of the morse powerful way these programmes work. it's an example, but it's important and really effective. but it's important and really effective-— but it's important and really effective. , ., ., effective. just on the legislation, i know effective. just on the legislation, i know joe _ effective. just on the legislation, i know joe biden _ effective. just on the legislation, i know joe biden has _ effective. just on the legislation, i know joe biden has talked i i knowjoe biden has talked passionately about this before, that we saw the governor brought to tears again last night in michigan — is there anything that they could agree? it so divided in congress,