This is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Unions representing doctors and nurses in the uk express concerns about new guidelines allowing the reuse of Personal Protective Equipment. Amidst a global shortage some hospitals in the uk warn they may run out of the equipment this weekend. Its a real disappointment to us that the government has been unable, even after a month, to address this progressively worsening shortage of ppe. President trump angers democrats after tweeting in support of protests against stringent lockdown measures in three democrat run us states. Russia records nearly 5,000 new cases of coronavirus
in the past 2a hours its biggest daily increase since the start of the outbreak. And in a few minutes, well be speaking live to the Prime Minister of mauritius about the countrys lockdown measures. Hello and welcome to audiences in the uk and around the world. Were covering all the latest coronavirus developments, both here and globally. Unions representing doctors and nurses in the uk have expressed concerns about revised guidance that allows Personal Protective Equipment to be re used in some circumstances at hospitals in england. An official from the Doctors Union the bma said the change
could lead to some front line staff deciding theyre unable to treat people with covid 19. It comes as the head of the organisation which represents National Health service trusts has warned some hospitals could run out of the gowns used in intensive care units this weekend amid a global shortage. In other developments, the World Health Organization has questioned whether tests for covid 19 antibodies are effective. Some countries hoped the tests would be a way to end lockdowns. President trump has defended a series of tweets encouraging protests against lockdown measures in minnesota, michigan and virginia three states with Democratic Party governors. And doctors injapan are warning the countrys medical system could collapse, amid a rising number of coronavirus cases. An increasing number of patients there are being turned away from hospitals. More on all those stories coming up, but first, heres john mcmanus on the shortage of protective
equipment in england. In this workplace, the machinists are more used to making jackets designed to withstand the british weather, but now the staff at this barbour factory in South Shields have turned their hands to Personal Protective Equipment ppe vital to repel not rain, but the coronavirus. The company says it hopes to make around 23,000 gowns for nhs staff over a three week period. Other manufacturers havejoined in. But despite this, supplies of ppe in england such as fully fluid repellent gowns will run out sometime this weekend, according to the head of nhs providers, chris hopson. He blames a global shortage, saying that gowns ordered weeks ago were just beginning to arrive now. In response, Public Health england has issued new guidelines, saying that some ppe can be reused if necessary until the new supplies arrive, but thats provoked an angry
response from health unions. Unison has warned that some of its members may refuse to work if they feel unsafe and the bma is also unhappy. I dont think any Health Care Worker should be expected to expose themselves to potential risks to their lives during the course of their work. Its a real disappointment to us that the government has been unable, even after a month, to address this progressively worsening shortage of ppe. The department of health says staff are working around the clock to solve the problem. Given we have a Global Situation in which there is less ppe in the world than the world needs, obviously its going to be a huge pressure point. Meanwhile, the government says it has no plans to make people wear face masks in public, despite lobbying from the mayor of london, sadiq khan. The masks are compulsory in new york, as well as the Czech Republic and slovakia, but the World Health Organization
says that, apart from health workers, masks should only be worn by those who display the symptoms of covid i9 or are caring for somebody who does. John mcmanus, bbc news. Lets talk now to niall dickson, whose organisation represents the whole range of organisations that commission and provide nhs care. Thank you forjoining us. What is your assessment of the situation today . I think there is going to be real anxiety in the Health Service over this weekend. We understand that there is no some hope that we may be able to get through the next couple of days. There was certainly huge amounts of nervousness at the end of the week as it were that there might be shortages in the nhs, particularly around this question of guns, which are used in places like intensive care where there is a very high level of viral load the
question of gowns. Even if we are in a better position than we were 70 hours ago, we could still face the problem in a few days time because the whole thing is working very much on hand to mouth basis and certainly all the members i have talked to to have been talking about we have enough supplies until 11pm scratch ii oclock tomorrow or we did not get the numbers we thought. I think that is at the National Level as well, they are getting stuff that is predominantly sent from china which has started producing again, but they are not always getting the numbers are the types of things that they thought they were going to get. Soi they thought they were going to get. So i think it may ease by may, but thatis so i think it may ease by may, but that is not much comfort. I think there will be a lot of concern amongst professional staff in the nhs over the next few days and, of
course, the danger is that there is a further loss of confidence in what they are being provided with. Yes, discomfort and one imagines anger. Why are we reliant on china . China has just been through the passage of a pandemic forjanuary and february. Why on earth are we relying on supplies from the . There are complex issues here which i do not want to oversimplify, but the answer is that china is the world producer of ppe, as it were, and particularly of these kind of materials and you could ask, well, shouldnt we have had our own . Could ask, well, shouldnt we have had ourown . I could ask, well, shouldnt we have had our own . I think the first. And there is a danger playing in the game, but it some point people will have to look back on the decisions that were made playing a blame game, looking at whether some of this could have been anticipated, do not know the answer to that question but i think the most important thing is to look forward. And how we can
access the material. Indeed, so what is the answer on excessive we cannot rely on that supply chain from chinai think we will get a lot more from china and they are getting up. They have started to produce a lot more than we have done before. As a Health Secretary pointed out, there isa Health Secretary pointed out, there is a great deal of competition around the world because were not the only country that is facing this degree of shortage. Part of our problem has been that we have relied ona problem has been that we have relied on a pandemic flu stockpile. We had big stockpiles of ppe for a flu pandemic, but the guns are not needed as much the gowns are not needed as much the gowns are not needed as much for flu is therefore covid. Anywhere that we can try and buy the stuff we are trying to do it. Likewise, we have got a number of Different Companies in this country who are starting to produce it and then this third fallback
position, which is definitely less in sucha position, which is definitely less in such a factory, which is are there alternatives, such as laboratories style clothing which people can protection. Some of the protection that is being suggested is not fully repellent of fluid and thatis is not fully repellent of fluid and that is where you would have to wear a sort of gown or apron that is where you would have to wear a sort of gown oi apron over that is where you would have to wear a sort of gown or apron over the gowns that would protect you from that. The main thing is that in each hospital there would have to be discussions with clinicians who are facing the situations, discussing what they have got and how they are going to take this forward, but i do not think that anybody is saying this as anything other than deeply unsatisfactory. Deeply u nsatisfa ctory unsatisfactory. Deeply unsatisfactory and it puts a difficult dilemma into the hands of every front line health worker. We have been hearing from the unions that their members could refuse to work this weekend if ppe is
unavailable. What would be your message to somebody who is going into work in a hospital in a risky environment, potentially dealing with covid patients, who is not being given the equipment that they feel they need to protect themselves . What should they do . think there needs to be a discussion within each institution about the situation they are in. I think it is absolutely reasonable that each individual member of staff had to make an assessment about what they are being given and the degree of risk which is attached that. Ppe is not, of course, the only way in which people protect themselves. It is one absolutely vital part of it, but things like washing your hands, making sure that procedures are carried out in the right way, there are all these other things which are also important. I think it has to be also important. I think it has to be a discussion which is made. I do not see anybody being forced to do this, but please do. I think we would
say to everybody to look at the games. We think the government was right to issue this guidance to look at the guidance. So that there was clarity about what to do if there is not sufficient supply of these gowns. The discussion has to be at each individual level and each individual member of staff will have to make their own decision. In general, of course, members of staff put themselves at risk anyway in relation to this. They will have to make a judgment about does this put me atany make a judgment about does this put me at any more risk rest i suppose the only. I do not know if it is much comfort, but this is emergency guidance that has not been invented by Public Health england, it is guidance that are supported by the World Health Organization and the Communicable Diseases outfit in the states. But it is meant for emergencies. That is where we are at, we are in an emergency in the situation at the moment. I sincerely hope that over the next couple of days we are not any position where
staff are having to do that and i think there is hope that that may not happen, but i still remain concerned, even if we get over this weekend, that there will be problems in the next two or three weeks. I think after that, it make it easier. Thank you. The World Health Organization has questioned whether tests for covid i9 antibodies will be effective. The who said there was no evidence that having had the virus would guarantee immunity. Some countries have planned widespread antibody testing, in the hope that people who are proven to have immunity would be able to return to work. Council leaders in england have warned the government that they need urgent extra funding to tackle the challenges caused by the pandemic. The bbc has seen a letter from the local Government Association to the communities secretary, robertjenrick, warning that some local authorities may have to take
extreme cost cutting measures to avoid financial failure. President trump has defended a series of tweets encouraging protests against lockdown measures in minnesota, michigan and virginia three states with Democratic Party governors. At a white house briefing, mr trump said the measures imposed in some states had been too tough. He called for the three states to be liberated. 0ur north america correspondent david willis reports. Testing for the coronavirus is seen as crucial to assessing the true nature of this crisis. Its a massive undertaking in a country of this size, and President Trump believes the responsibility for carrying it out rests with individual states, not the federal government, which he oversees. In new york, the epicentre of the virus here in america, the states governor, andrew cuomo, has said he has neither the money nor the manpower to carry out widespread testing
for the coronavirus, and hes not alone among state governors. He accused the president of passing the buck, but not the bucks an accusation which prompted President Trump to take to twitter to urge the democrat governor to spend more time doing and less time complaining. Later, it fell to the Vice President to assure reporters that there are sufficient resources to carry out widespread testing. Our best scientists and Health Experts assess that states today have enough tests to implement the criteria of phase one if they choose to do so. Horns beep. President trump has made little secret of his desire to reopen the American Economy quickly ahead of elections later this year. And he appeared to lend his support to protests over stay at home waters to protests over stay at home orders
that have sprung up in several us states. Protests in minnesota, michigan and virginia are thought to have been orchestrated by conservative groups that want to see the president re elected. Each has targeted democratic governors whose lockdowns the demonstrators want to see lifted. The president , in a series of tweets, called for all of those states to be liberated, as he put it, adding a call to his supporters in virginia to see what he called your great Second Amendment, which he said was under siege. The Second Amendment grants american citizens the right to bear arms. Last week, virginias Governor Ralph Northam signed several gun control measures into law, a move prompted by the mass shooting at Virginia Beach last year in which 13 people died. The president denied suggestions that his tweets could foment dissent and undermine his calls for national unity. He also denied suggestions that by defying social distancing guidelines, the demonstrators
could add to the spread of the coronavirus. These are people expressing their views. I see where they are and i see the way theyre working. They seem to be very responsible people to me. Horns beep. The protests in michigan are said to have involved around 3,000 demonstrators, some of whom were armed. That state has seen more than a thousand new cases and more than 100 new deaths a day. And the states governor said she hoped the president s tweets would not be seen as encouraging the protests. I totally respect peoples right to dissent and to voice their disagreement with decisions ive made. Ill tell you this, every decision ive made has been centred around whats in the best interests of the Public Health of the people of michigan. Instead of the big re opening of the American Economy that President Trump
had hoped to see, his administration is putting a tentative toe in the water. The reopening of the Worlds Largest economy will be slower and more cautious than many in his administration might have liked and quite possibly fraught with controversy. David willis, bbc news, los angeles. Doctors injapan are warning the countrys medical system could collapse amid a rising number of coronavirus cases. Two medical associations said the extra burden caused by virus infections meant Emergency Rooms were refusing to treat some people, even those suffering from strokes and heart attacks. One patient in an ambulance with a fever was turned away by 80 medical facilities before finding a hospital in tokyo that would accept him. Officials say on at least 800 occasions this month alone, ambulances were turned away from at least five hospitals. Yesterday we reported that a boss of an nhs trust had contacted the bbc with concerns about the provision of gowns for staff. He had asked the bbc for the phone
numbers of burberry and barbour because he was concerned about supply shortages. We should clarify that the person concerned is not the boss of a trust but is part of a network of organisations helping to source Personal Protective Equipment for some nhs trusts. While coronavirus lockdown measures around the world vary, one of the most stringent lockdowns is in mauritius. The east African Island nation has a population of 1. 2 million people. From the 20th of march, only essential services, such as hospitals, pharmacies, and banks were allowed open. In supermarkets, only one person per family is permitted to shop for 30 minutes, and shopping time slots have been allocated according to surnames. Its also mandatory to wear a face mask and bring id while shopping. So have these tough measures been working . Im joined now by the Prime Minister of mauritius, pravind jugnauth. Thank you so much forjoining as Prime Minister. Thank you for having
me. Are you getting on top of the infections in mauritius . As you said, reluctant has started since the 20th of march. Until the 4th of may, depending on the situation and how it evolves. 0nly essential services such as Health Services, police, banks, shops and supermarkets have remained open. We have also staggered shopping days by alphabetical order with social distancing to avoid overcrowding and preventing the spread of the virus. Schools are closed, but there only teaching taking place, but in spite of the covid i9, we are carrying on with the other Public Health activities, for instance, we are undertaking a nationwide Flu Vaccination Campaign for the elderly and the disabled, which targets some 150,000 people. There have been a
few violations, unfortunately, of the curfew, but most of the people have understood the need to abide by all government directives and, in fa ct, all government directives and, in fact, we are right now appearing a covid 19 fact, we are right now appearing a covid19 bill, fact, we are right now appearing a covid 19 bill, which i hope will pave the way for the reopening, which hopefully will be around the 11th of may. Of course depending on how the situation evolves. And on the situation, the medical infection situation, as i understand it, you have 324 confirmed cases in mauritius and nine deaths, if that still collect . Yes, so far the hundred and 24 confirmed cases out of which there are 204 active cases. 324. No of which there are 204 active cases. 324. No new cases have been registered for the last five days and all patients and a stable
condition, etc to who are in the ico. The total number of tests we have been carried out in so far 9180 and we have so far recorded a total of nine deaths all patients are ina of nine deaths all patients are in a stable condition, except two who are in the icy you. Im sorry to interrupt, but we are short time. Given that you seem to be on top of it in terms of the spread of the infection, youre hoping to raise restrictions. Like other countries are raising restrictions right now. I suppose you must consider what form of social distancing, what form of face coverings, youre going to impose when you do raise your lock ten. Have you thought about that . Your lockdown. It will depend how the situation involves the first of all, but if things improve a lot. As things evolve. We are working on lifting the sanitary curfew and we have to lift it any staggered manner. We are looking at basically, for example, the economic sector and how people will start to go back to work, not everybody will go back at the same time, but we will do so in a phased manner and we welcome of course, take all the necessary precautions, like social distancing, wearing of masks and also advising the population, all those who are going to be, again, back to work on a number of precautions that have to be taken. Prime minister, thank you so much forjoining us. We wish all the citizens of mauritius all the very best in commenting this
pandemic. Combating this pandemic. Russia has recorded nearly 5,000 new cases of coronavirus in the past 24 hours, its biggest daily increase since the start of the outbreak. It comes as hospitals are said to be in danger of running out of space. The situation has led to president putin postponing the annual victory day celebrations, one of the most important days on the russian calendar. To tell us more about the Current Situation in russia is a journalist from the moscow times newspaper. Thank you for talking to us. The picture sounds grim in russia today. It sounds grim and it feels grim as well. Three weeks ago, president putin said there is nothing to where about, everything is under control and then on monday said that we have to be worried about, nothing is really under control and this has been reflected in the numbers. We
have had seven consecutive day increased day. Around 37,000 cases in russia. The lockdown that moscow has introduced does not seem to be bidding its fruits so it has a wedding situation and hospitals soon might be running out of space bearing its fruit so it is a worrying situation. Are people observing social distancing and the other restrictions imposed in the locked and . Other restrictions imposed in the locked and . It is a complex issue because coronavirus is not the main concern, for Many Russians, the concern, for Many Russians, the concern is the Economic Impact for Many Russians and many do not have savings that they have to continue working. In moscow, we see that despite the lockdown, despite the find that the government is trying to impose on the people, many do still go out about their daily life and go to work. Because they cannot afford to stay home. Russia is such
afford to stay home. Russia is such a vast country, is it possible for anyone, other than presumably the authorities, tojudge to anyone, other than presumably the authorities, to judge to what extent they have a problem in what particular region . As you said, russia is the Biggest Country in the world and the main issue now is moscow seems to be more or less people know what is happening, but the regions, many journalists people know what is happening, but the regions, manyjournalists and experts believe the numbers there are suppressed or the testing is not done as well as it should be. And the health care in the regions is not to the level that it is in moscow so any virus, and it seems to be spreading quicker in the regions and it was before, when it gets to the regions it seems to be a real problem. And what about yourself . Are you afraid to go out . Do you wear a mask . Are you taking personal precautions, give me a brief answer to that . I tried to obviously stay as much as possible at home. As a
journalist, i am able to do most of my work from home through social media, through calling doctors and hospitals so i tried to sit on. Im going to have to live it, but thank you so much forjoining us from moscow. We wish all the best. Thank you very much. Youre watching bbc news. The government has written to members of parliament explaining why some flights are still arriving into british airports. Each day around 60 passenger flights land at heathrow. Airlines have told the bbc that many are relatively empty and they insist that virtually everyone flying into heathrow now is travelling home. 0ur transport correspondent tom burridge reports. Most airports are largely standing still, but even now, some passenger planes are arriving. One in ten of the flights, which normally operates in and out of heathrow, are still running. Airlines say the vast majority of people on board are simply heading home. Nobody at the moment is taking a holiday so these flights are repatriation flights. We need to bring these people home. These people are stranded all over the world. All over the world barcelona, america, south america, asia and airlines are working with the government right now every single day to get these people home. Kiran was stuck visiting family in india before flying home this week. There were checks at the airports in india. They asked for if weve got any symptoms of of coid 19. So we just had to say tickboxes. Do you have a cough . Did you have a flu . That kind of thing. And then you go inside the airport and then youve got their staff. Some people with covid 19, dont have a temperature and some show no symptoms at all so the effectiveness of checks is questionable. The boss of heathrow has said airports around the world should now adopt the same standards. American Airlines Told us their planes now have enough empty seats so that social distancing is always possible. And Virgin Atlantic revealed many of their commercial flights have only been about a quarter full. But the belly of most passenger planes is full of cargo, selling at a premium in these extraordinary times. Companies running pure cargo flights are working like never before. Its really the only choice that there is at the current
time to move anything. Time to move anything that is time criticalfrom one region of the world to another, particularly if its Urgent Medical equipment or supplies, medical supplies in from china. Food in from kenya. Airlines have taken a massive financial hit, so theyre now using passenger planes to generate revenue by transporting vital supplies. Tom burridge, bbc news. It has to be time for something cheerful. Captain tom moore has already raised more than £21 million for the nhs with his sponsored walk, but hes not done yet. He wants to go even further, this time by releasing a charity single. And youll never walk alone and youll never walk alone. And youll never walk alone. And youll never walk alone. Youll never walk alone. The 99 year old war veteran has teamed up with the singer michael ball, and released a version of youll never walk alone. If he tops the charts on friday, it would mean that hed be number that would be Something Else to celebrate. Now its time for a look at the weather with louise. It it were going to hope for the rest of the afternoon. We should see the cloud breaking up and some sand and coming to. It has been a beautiful start into scotland and Northern England and northern ireland. You keep the sun shine through the afternoon. An easterly breeze will make it feel cool in exposed coasts, nine to 13 celsius here. Only around ten or 11 in the cloud and rain. Highest values of 15. As we head into sunday, High Pressure sits up to scandinavia. He winds a swinging round, any clockwise direction, bringing the piece in off the north sea. At that
breeze will act as our friend, pushing some of the cloud back to the west so that we go through sunday, it will be dry, settled with more sunshine and, as a result, temperatures will be a degree or so higher, ranging from nine to 18 celsius. Hello, this is bbc news. The headlines unions representing doctors and nurses in the uk express concerns about new guidelines allowing the reuse of Personal Protective Equipment amidst a global shortage some hospitals in the uk warn they may run out of the equipment this weekend. President trump angers democrats after tweeting in support of protests against stringent lockdown measures in three democrat run us states. Russia records nearly 5,000 new cases of coronavirus in the past 24 hours, its biggest daily increase since the start of the outbreak. Now on bbc news, its time
for your questions answered. In the uk were facing another three weeks of lockdown, but across the world other countries are starting to ease restrictions. Thousands of you have been writing in with your questions what could happen here. Dr chris smith, consultant virologist at the university of cambridgejoins us now, along with professor chris martin, a lecturer in economincs at the university of bath. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for joining welcome to both of you. Thank you forjoining us. I am going to start with a very logical question. Chris smith, if infections may not confer immunity, and to a certain extent i suppose that reflects the news we have heard from the who questioning
that, then how could any vaccine work because surely it uses the same principle . The answer to this is the classic, we dont know. What the who are urging us to be cautious about is that, just because somebody registers antibodies in their bloodstream, this does notjust mean now you have got antibodies, it is back to business as usual, because you might not be immune. We know that with some disorders you can have antibody detectable in your bloodstream, but not enough or the right sort of antibody to actually protect you if you encounter the threat in future. Some tests that are being produced at the moment have not been validated, and what we mean by that is checked to know that the antibody a person has is protective at the level that it is present at. Those are the sorts of tests we need to do. We also need to do long follow up test to see if people who get rid of the virus, and people who get rid of the virus, and people do, they clear it and protect themselves, but we need to establish how long that immune lasts for. This
is going to be critical because different types of vaccine tend to produce different types of immune response, so we need to make sure that the vaccines we put our money and our confidence behind make the right sort of response, a long lasting response. It is early days and that is why the who are urging caution. Turning to chris martin, and a more economic question. This is an anonymous e mail. Why cant the government decide how long the lockdown will be instead of reviewing it every three weeks . think you cannot make a decision on how soon to end the lockdown until you know how much prevalence there is of the disease in the community. As faras is of the disease in the community. As far as the economy is concerned, we started an economy with two things. Number one, we need to supply started again. We need workers to get back and working, and once that is achieved, we need to
make sure there is a demand for the good that these workers are producing. Both of those at the moment are quite problematic, but the first stage is to get workers back into production. Until we really know where the viruses, and how infectious it is, and as we have heard, who is immune and who is not, it is difficult to make those judgments. Chris smith, if the lockdown gets lifted in may, asks helen, and even ifjust 100 lockdown gets lifted in may, asks helen, and even ifjust100 people have the virus, wont it all start again and the numbers will go up again, and we will all have to stay in again and this will go on for yea rs . In again and this will go on for years . You have hit the nail on the head. The fact that this is a very real prospect is being demonstrated by parts of china, and also by singapore and hong kong. Places that we re singapore and hong kong. Places that were quite far ahead of actually catching this virus in the first place, then stopping the virus with various place, then stopping the virus with various manoeuvres, a place, then stopping the virus with various manoeuvres, a bit like those we are going through now. But when they attempted to lift those manoeuvres, the numbers climbed again. It is a very real problem and
thatis again. It is a very real problem and that is what governments are grappling with at the moment. How do we make sure that doesnt happen . At the moment there is no clear answer because we have never been in this position. It is not like we look at page 56 of the instruction manual. At the moment, it is a question of, lets see what other people do, let see if that would apply under our circumstances. Lets apply the bits that work. What we have to be careful about is you have to compare apples with apples. Different countries have different populations, different population densities, different demography is, different ratios of older and younger people, different places of work, methods of going to work, and all of this means that the dynamics and the way a disease spreads will va ry and the way a disease spreads will vary from one country to another. It is not a given that we just come up with one strategy and supplier worldwide. There is probably going to bea worldwide. There is probably going to be a mixture of solutions in order to solve this. Chris martin,
rachel in crouch end asks, how long before the economy gets going when the lockdown is lifted . She asks, i have a holiday to ibiza booked in august. Do you think holidays abroad might be likely in the summer or is this a pipe dream . I think the only information we have got on how long this might take is to look at the example of china. As i was saying before, if the first stage is to get production going again, and i think in china that is kind of working reasonably well, but what is happening in china is there is a huge lack of demand for goods. In terms of things like holidays, i dont think anybody can say at this stage, there is talk that they will bea stage, there is talk that they will be a phased release to lockdown. In terms of travelling to somewhere like ib for, one question might be it may be the case that the uk is behind other countries in releasing the lockdown, so it is quite possible, unfortunately, that people from other countries may be able to
travel there, but we may not be able to because we have not yet made sufficient progress in getting on top of the virus. Chris smith. If eve ryo ne top of the virus. Chris smith. If everyone is following the isolation rules, by now there should be minimal transmission, and that should be confined to essential workers because they are the only ones travelling. Why havent the number of confirmed cases and hospitalisations not plummeted . Number of confirmed cases and hospitalisations not plummeted . The graphs we are shown at the daily briefings dont indicate a clear decrease of hospital admission, nor do they show a clear decrease of infection in every area of the uk. Does this mean the lockdown is not having a substantial effect . When you see numbers climbing, that is an increasing rate. When you see the numbers staying the same, as in each day it is 1000 people not 2000
3000, that means you have changed the rate of growth. Actually, we are seeing a decrease, or at least a flattening of those succumbing to this, and the number of people going hospital. We have quite significantly change the course of the disease. The numbers are coming down, but there are things to consider. 0ne down, but there are things to consider. One of them is that not eve ryo ne consider. One of them is that not everyone is complying. Also, these viruses have had thousands to millions of years are becoming really very good at doing what they do best, which is tojump from one person to another. Despite our best efforts, we still have to go and get our essentials. We have to go shopping, we have to in some cases go to work, so there will still be opportunities for the virus to transmit. That is one thing it is doing very well. The other thing to bearin doing very well. The other thing to bear in mind is that when we actually catch this virus, the cycle time between catching it and then becoming a death or a person who has recovered is very long. It is not like the flu, where within a day you are feeling awful and you are really
infectious, but within five days it is done and dusted. With this, it may be as long as a month before you are out the other end of the tunnel. Asa are out the other end of the tunnel. As a result, what we are looking at here, people who are still dying in hospital, they are probably most likely the legacy of the pre lockdown period. They caught the virus before we put ourselves into these manoeuvres to suppress the spread of the virus. There is a range of factors and that is the dominant one, but it is reassuring that numbers are coming down. Chris martin, this is anonymous. Might young people be allowed out first when the easing of the lockdown begins . If they are low risk, they could get the economy going again. They could help, but the problem is there is a limit to what young people do. Inevitably, most businesses will have a hierarchy. There is management and workers. Most young people are not yet at the management level. So yes, young people can get to backed to work and back to work places, there are
things they can do, but they cannot make major decisions, they cannot run businesses by themselves. Yes, it will help, but i dont think it is going to be the magic solution. Just one question from each of the back of that answer, do you think this is going to accelerate the trend towards automation in many workplaces or factory floors . Thats an interesting question. I think it will accelerate the transition to people being more flexible about their workplace. In terms of automation, i am slightly less sure because there are many things that automation can achieve, lots of things that people who are able to work from home machines cannot at this point replicate what we do, so i would say it is more likely it will accelerate a trend to flexible working. Automation is another issue. Will it change supply chains . We have been hearing this morning about the problems with the supply chain from china for hospital gowns, which means a lot of Front Line Health Workers cant rely on their ppe as they go to work today, or some worry that they wont be able to rely on their ppe. Do you think supply chains will change after this . I kind of hope not because we have all benefited from the globalisation, while most people have benefited from globalisation. I think, where we to start bringing production of what we currently think of as essential items back within the countries borders, we will lose a lot of those games macro games that we have achieved. I can imagine there will be certain things that we regard as strategically important, for example having a powerful biomedical capability, may be the ability for smarter manufacturing so we can at short notice start producing different sorts of equipment. But hopefully
the major shift in the World Economy, which has benefited most people, hopefully that will continue. We dont want to end up like in the 20s and 30s, where we we nt like in the 20s and 30s, where we went back to a protectionist way of organising the World Economy and that did not end well. Lets go back to the behaviour of the virus, chris smith. This question does not have a name attached, will the virus ever vanish . I dont think so, and the reason i say that is because it is so well adapted to spreading in humans, and it does it so very well, it spreads twice as well as the flu, and the flu is good at what it does. For that reason, what is probably a likely outcome is that this virus willjoin the ranks of the existing natural human coronavirus. There are four other coronavirus that have been circulated in the human race for a long time, and they cause the common cold and they are regarded as a relatively benign infection and a
handful of the population get them every year. I strongly suspect that this new one, ultimately, will become one of those. It is probably something we will catch when we are little, we will get trivial symptoms, if any, and hopefully we will become relatively resistant to it for the rest of our life. By that, i mean immune. At the moment that, i mean immune. At the moment thatis that, i mean immune. At the moment that is not certain because we dont know what the long term immune status of someone who has caught this is. But if you catch it when you are young, it would probably mean you dont get the same severe illness that someone suffers when they are older, but that is speculation on my part. Sean welsh who says he is not a medic, says the covenant has enough Scientific Evidence to let the public know what the general direction of travel is in their strategy and opened their Baseline Assessment up to the public and the political and broader scientific scrutiny and challenge, so why dont they . That is an
interesting question. There are two parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. I am parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. Lam not parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. I am not a parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. Lam not a medic parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. I am not a medic also, parts. The first is, i am not sure myself. Lam not a medic also, but thinking for myself, i dont actually agree that they have enough Scientific Evidence at this point. Evidence is coming in in a patchy way, so im not sure that you can say with confidence that we really have got enough Scientific Evidence to make those kinds ofjudgments with confidence. The second thing, in terms of public messaging, there isa in terms of public messaging, there is a tension between trying to reassure the public and trying to inform the public. So the message that ideally is put across is something which is quite sophisticated. I would say to date that the uk government has been less successful in doing that, compared to for example the german government. I think the government could be a lot more open, and it could be a lot more open, and it could be a lot more open, and it could be a lot clearer with the public, but i can certainly see the tension that they are under. They wa nt tension that they are under. They want to give a message of reassurance , and want to give a message of reassurance, and often that is difficult for them to do. Chris
smith, this question is from lee who says i am a 71 year old type two diabetic with kidney disease, bronchiectasis and fibrosis, plus other issues so i am in the high risk category. What is the process after 12 weeks of shielding. Iam process after 12 weeks of shielding. I am unlikely to develop immunity as i will be for that time. How can i reintegrate into society when the lockdown ends as the virus is still likely to be around and the vaccine is unlikely to be available, and individual testing is not around. How cani individual testing is not around. How can i try to ensure i dont put myself at risk by leaving the house . Hello, this is the major problem that we are grappling with. The reason we are doing what we are doing is to protect people who are most at risk. The people who are most at risk. The people who are most at risk are those with pre existing illnesses, including chest disease and diabetes. But also
people who are just older. With age comes an increased risk. So, where does that leave us . It is a big headache. At the moment, we have suppressed the circulation of the virus, but what we have effectively done is by ourselves time, but not a solution. We have still got a very Large Population of people who have not caught it, we have still got a population of people who, if they we re population of people who, if they were to catch it, could become extremely unwell. This is why people are putting emphasis on trying to develop a vaccine, but we do need a plan b, and that would be what to do if there is no vaccine. At the moment, no one has got a plan b, and thatis moment, no one has got a plan b, and that is why we are having to extend the lockdown because we dont know how to solve the problem. The only prospect at the moment, the only thing we have got to throw at this at the moment is Public Health measures like lockdown is an social distancing. For people like lee, the way we are protecting them at the moment is keeping them away from those who might be able to infect them. Perhaps one long term strategy
when we have got a test that will tell us whether we are immune to this, andi tell us whether we are immune to this, and i mean a reliable test, that we may have to put some kind of system so that carers or those at high risk are people who are known to be immune. This would protect them in the short term, but again, we cant keep people locked up like prisoners because we end up in a situation where the treatment is worse than the disease. Thats why we are putting so much emphasis on a vaccine that at the moment people are sceptical may not even materialise, certainly not in the short term. Can i ask a question that puzzles me because if you think about the countries which have been successful in keeping down infections, and keeping down deaths. Think, for example, taiwan. Fewer than ten deaths, and they are only 100 miles from china and they have
enormously dense enmeshed links with china, and yet through testing and chasing they have managed to do what you are describing without the sledgehammer to crack a nut. Yes, but what they have done is to buy time. The viral threat has not gone away, and those people who are susceptible to catching the virus has not stopped existing. Given the opportunity, those people, if they went on holiday and came to london and the virus was circulating in london, they would catch it. So that is not a long term solution, that is a way of controlling the virus in the short term. In the long term, we need a way of protecting people which means stamping out the virus completely, and the prospect of that is unlikely, especially with countries like india and africa starting to see surges in activity there, and they have very poor infrastructure in some places, so it is harder to do what they are doing in places like south korea. What we doing at the moment is a stalling mechanism and we dont have
long term robust solutions, which is what people are desperately searching for. Back to some of the economics and lockdown lifting questions. This one is from larry. Could lockdown be eased by postcode . I live in north wales, but there seems to be more cases in south wales. Surely it would be wrong to hold back north wales until the virus is beaten in south wales . think there is some sense in that, but the benefits are quite limited. Yes, there are regions, and i am pleased you are living in one of them, where it seems like there is relatively little disease. We have relatively little disease. We have relative safety compared to some areas. So people in your areas could potentially be released, but how far will that take us . The economy of north wales is heavily dependent on visitors and that cannot start, so yes, you can do some things in local
areas by releasing people, and yes thatis areas by releasing people, and yes that is going to be beneficial in lots of ways, but we need to be careful and it is not going to help the economy much. Another question for you, chris martin. The economy much. Another question foryou, chris martin. How the economy much. Another question for you, chris martin. How does a government decide to come out of lockdown, taking it away from the uk and looking more generally, how do they weigh up the importance of our wealth, compared to our health . That isa very wealth, compared to our health . That is a very tricky question. The best answer i can give to that is to look at the evidence we have got from one century ago, the response to the spanish flu. There is some interesting evidence from the us, where different cities responded in different ways. Some cities like chicago opened their economies very early. 0ther chicago opened their economies very early. Other cities kept people shielded for longer. What this study
has done is looked at the longer term impact on the economies of those cities. It shows clearly that those cities. It shows clearly that those cities, for example saint louis, which protected the population for longer, did better economically ten or 15 years down the line. In the short term, chicago benefited from releasing the lockdown earlier, but in the long run, economically, that was not a smart move. For what it is worth, what we learn from the spanish flu pandemic the evidence is there is not a trade off between the economy and Public Health, that you need to protect Public Health, and once you have done that in the longer run the economy will benefit from that. have done that in the longer run the economy will benefit from that. If i could just press you on that chicago saint louis comparison. Explain to us why it was that st louis did better in the long run from this shielding effort . That is a good question and i dont have an answer. This study basically looked at the
health measures that were taken, and looked at the long Term Economic consequences. I looked at the long Term Economic consequences. I can looked at the long Term Economic consequences. I can imagine what that was, for example in chicago i can imagine that once there was an Early Release of the disease took hold and that affected the population clearly in terms of what they could produce, and it certainly would affect the demand. I can inve nt would affect the demand. I can invent a story for that one. But i think we really dont know. Chris smith, coming back to you. This is really a question from me. It does underline what i have heard from both of you just how enormously complex the around is because there are so many variables around the virus, so many variables around how it behaves in relation to vaccines, and as you have explains, there is only differences in the demographics and social and economic structures of Different Countries they cant provide a template model for each
other. But what gives you hope in this circumstance . Before i answer that, if i could go back to something chris was just saying because i think we should be a bit cautious here, it was 100 years ago and the world has changed radically in that 100 years. People live in quite a different way today, industry works in quite a different way, supply chains work differently, so we do have to be cautious about extrapolating from what happened in the 19 18 spanish era. But it is still informative. In terms of what gives me hope, we have got some very bright people and those bright people are turning most of their attention now to solving this problem. We have got some of the best universities in the world, including mine, cambridge, where we have got to the macro announced to a large number of people that one of the most important parts of the university has completely changed its focus from what it was working on, to purely working on tackling
the coronavirus problem. So you have got people with big budgets and big brains all uniting behind this common goal of solving this problem, and that gives me enormous reassurance that we have some of our best scientists and doctors working on this together and doing it in a very collaborative, multidisciplinary way. All working from different departments and across the world and sharing data. In many ways, it is bringing the whole world of scientific and medical communities and the public together to unite and solve this. It is bringing out some wonderful aspects of human good. Chris martin, what gives you hope from where you sit in bath . I agree with what chris said. The way the world is coming together really does give us hope on this. To both of you, it has been wonderful to have you on the programme. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Hello there. Theres a bit of a north south divide with our weather for the start of this weekend. The best of the weather so far has certainly been to the north west of scotland. Take a look at this beautiful weather watcher picture across the western isles. You can see hardly a cloud in the sky. A different story, however, across parts of surrey this morning. There was some heavy overnight rain. That rain is steadily sweeping its way north and east. Its pushing its way into the midlands and across to wales as we speak. It has brought over an inch of rain in one or two spots welcome news for gardeners and growers. Parts of england and wales have not seen rain for nearly four weeks. That rain will continue to move its way slowly northwards, grinding to a halt into north wales and parts of yorkshire, but for much of scotland, Northern England and northern ireland, its blue sky and sunshine for the rest of the day. Yes, an easterly breeze will make it feel a little bit cooler on exposed coasts, disappointing under the cloud and rain as well, but if we get some breaks and some sunshine, we may well see highs this afternoon of 15 celsius. Through this evening and overnight, the rain will ease away, but we keep quite a lot of cloud across england and wales. One or two clearer spots through scotland low single figures here, but its a relatively mild start to sunday. Its a quiet start to sunday. In fact, sundays a fairly straightforward day. If we have some cloud first thing in the morning, that easterly breeze coming in off the north sea may well push that cloud back to the west. So there will be more sunshine coming through into the afternoon and temperatures a degree or so up on todays weather highest values of nine to 18 celsius. High pressure is going to stay with us for the week, in actual fact, so there is a good deal of dry weather in the forecast. The high sitting off scandinavia, and with winds coming round in a clockwise direction, the breeze will always come in off the north sea so its a pretty cool source. Despite a lot of sunshine around on monday, that wind will be quite strong at times and that will just take the edge off the feel of things. It could be gusting in excess of 30 or 35 mph in places. Your thermometer, in a little
shelter, may well read 20 celsius 68 fahrenheit but on exposed coasts, it will feel noticeably cooler. Not much change, though, as we move into tuesday and wednesday. Its a case of spot the difference. Plenty of dry weather around, sheltered Western Areas seeing the best of the sunshine and the warmth. Thats it, take care. This is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. Unions representing doctors and nurses in the england express concerns about new guidelines allowing the reuse of Personal Protective Equipment. Amidst a global shortage some hospitals in the uk warn they may run out of the equipment this weekend. It isa it is a real disappointment to us that the government has been unable, even after a month, to address this aggressively worsening shortage of ppe. President trump angers democrats after tweeting in support of protests against stringent lockdown measures in three democrat run us states. Russia records nearly 5,000 new cases of coronavirus