Transcripts for BBC World Service BBC World Service 20191208 040000

Elections and 6000 people have been arrested and hundreds injured including the police since the gunmen have killed 2 members of a Brazilian Indigenous community in the northern state of Marinello the victims are from the grudge or ethnic group which had set up armed patrols to prevent illegal logging are America's editor Leonardo Russia reports Brazil's justice minister several more has condemned the shootings and sent a special federal police team to the area survivor said the gunmen approached thing the agent as group in a white pickup truck on a major role in northern Brazil they slowed down the field before opening fire 2 men who are on a motorbike died 2 others were injured this is the latest incident involving their quite as our indigenous group in northern Brazil many members of the community have been killed since they set up a few years ago unarmed patrol group to protect their land from illegal loggers this is the world news from the b.b.c. The International Monetary Fund has reached a provisional deal to support Ukraine with a 5 and a half $1000000000.00 loan the i.m.f. Said President of the me as a lens because government had made impressive progress in the past few months in advancing reform the outgoing president of Argentina Emirates Sylmar Korea has said farewell to thousands of his supporters in Bonn Azeris speaking outside the presidential palace he urged his supporters to keep a close watch on the new left wing government that will be sworn in on Tuesday Mr Murray said Arjun times must prevent a return to the corruption and bad management of previous administrations. The German born evangelist Ryan Howard Bunker who drew huge crowds during his preaching tours of Africa has died he was $79.00 among those who have paid tribute to him is the Nigerian president Mohammed who Bihari who is himself a Muslim he praised what he called Reinhart bonkers vision and zeal for the salvation of souls the British boxer and to me Joshua has become one of only a handful of fighters including Muhammad Ali to regain their world heavyweight titles after defeat 6 months are to being humiliated by the Mexican American and Iraqis Jr in New York Joshua outboxed and up class his opponent to win a unanimous points verdict speaking after the rematch in Saudi Arabia really said he knew where he'd gone wrong I said a press or more I think I was waiting till my it's my my ours was and flew away like it usually years you know and I think it was because of the way you know I wouldn't I went into having and to having and I was unable to tell my combinations thousands of people around the world are spending Saturday night sleeping outdoors as part of a charity event to raise money to tackle homelessness organizers of world's big sleep out say 52 cities are participating b.b.c. News. This is from our own correspondents on the b.b.c. World Service I'm Pascal hasa Hello and welcome to the program in this edition we get a ringside seat at the political and media circus with reflections from inside the impeachment hearings divide in Washington d.c. And the rest of the u.s. And 2 Stories of change one from a village water tap in Tanzania and the other from the glitziest streets of Riyadh Saudi Arabia tries to remodel its public image but 1st we go to the front line of a conflict which has been deadlocked for some years now when Russian forces took over parts of Ukraine in spring 2014 Much of the world held its breath would Western countries and NATO rushed to support Ukraine and provide a strong pushback against President Vladimir Putin's ambitions with the fighting spread further into Eastern Europe or along other Russian borders while that kind of escalation did not happen life in eastern Ukraine where Russian backed rebel forces and Ukraine's national army are still facing off does look very much like wartime thousands of people both fighters and civilians have been killed or wounded there are checkpoints barriers and minefields which prevent free travel the loyalties of communities and even some families have been split into recent moves to defuse the tensions and find a new way to co-exist seem shaky the B.B.C.'s correspondent in Kiev Jonah Fisher recently found that in this terrain politicians as well as military men were having to tread very carefully. A gruff rasping voice spoke from the darkness these are provocative questions which he is not required to answer we were in a mud walled Ukrainian army position trying to interview private chink Oh he was peering over the top of his machine gun towards rebel territory the interview wasn't going well the group's commander a burly man called saleman Co was listening and kept butting in a month before silly. And their fellow soldiers had been given the order to pull back a kilometer effectively retrieve thing from their hard won and well established frontline positions I was asking how that felt just say was difficult physically Silliman Co suggested from the shadows it have certainly been hard work winter hardens the ground and in the last few weeks Ukraine soldiers have been digging new trenches and positions but private craft Ching Co wasn't taking the easy way out it wasn't that hard work physically he insisted but in terms of our morale it was tough as so much effort had been put in to getting and maintaining those positions for his commander this was too much don't go so deep raspy voice and then slimming Coast dept interview and turned to us with a rather desperate request don't use that bit the order to pull back it come from the very top and to suggest that soldiers weren't happy with it was not part of the agreed script. Ukraine's president the ex comedian Vladimir's Olinsky has made bringing peace to eastern Ukraine and ending a war that cost more than 13000 lives his number one priority the question is how much he's willing to give up to get them. And sell him Inca's unit were pulling back in one of 3 parts of the front line where at Russia's insistence the Ukrainian military with Drew a kilometer to create a disengagement area in theory the Russian backed rebels on the other side did the same but no one's pretending they had more than a handful of men in those areas to move the cry of capitulation has gone up from Ukrainian nationalists and war veterans unhappy that their president is making concessions to a country that has in many people's eyes invaded and then occupied Eastern Ukraine Victor used to live inside the territory that the rebels now control he did well there he owned 4 shops a bakery and some agricultural land now he sleeps on the couch of his one remaining shop it's only a crane in government side as we stand outside its front door he points past an old coal mine to alight he says that marks the rebel front line somewhere behind dance his old businesses Viktor fumes at the idea that Ukraine is the one stepping back they're the ones who should retreat he tells me this is our territory they should go back to the other side of the Russian border but the harsh political reality is that Ukraine is not negotiating from a position of strength where once Kiev could count on robust support from Europe and the United States the commitment is now softening president's events he himself knows his window of opportunity may not last long 7 months after his extraordinary landslide election when there are already signs that his popularity is falling he knows he'll need every bit of political credit he can muster if he has to convey. Once people to back a difficult peace deal and what about the rebels Well they won't let the b.b.c. Into their territory and haven't for 3 and a half years so the closest we can get is a recently repaired bridge that serves as the only crossing point from the south declared Republic of Lohan Sq into Ukrainian government territory destroyed in fighting in 2015 it's been cleverly rebuilt so that an ambulance can roll across it but nothing as big as a tank the bridge is now a procession of misery $12000.00 crossings are made here every day almost all of them the elderly enduring the icy day trip from Lohan Sq to collect their Ukrainian government pension of about 50 u.s. Dollars a month Tamara Nicole life now is $69.00 and tells me she has family fighting on both the Ukrainian and the rebel sides for her piece is a very distant prospect she says she can't imagine her relatives sitting around a table again let alone shaking hands they all think they're defending a country she says with a shake of her head what about the leaders I ask her we love Putin she replies instantly Zelinsky smiles but in politics he's a clown on Monday the 2 men are g. To meet in Paris for the 1st time after years of deadlock and misery it represents a red glimmer of hope. Jonah Fisher of course ending the conflict in Ukraine has also been complicated by events half a world away the on going investigations into how the Trump administration has managed American foreign policy have also embroiled Ukraine's president Selenski Antony's has spent the past 4 years covering Donald Trump for the b.b.c. From the early days of his candidacy to his often to melt us presidency now he's been reporting on the push in Congress to impeach Donald Trump often from the rooms where the official hearings have been held it's given him a front row seat to history as it's being made but sometimes he wonders what posterity might make of the process over the past month I keep recalling a favorite old photograph it's of c.b.s. Reporter Dan Rather on August 9th 1904 the day Richard Nixon resigned as president of the United States the picture is of rather outside the White House he seated on a wooden box his arms draped over his thighs a microphone dangles limply from his folded hands Rather's expression shows a mixture of shock and exhaustion as though the gravity the historic importance of the moment has finally hit him I imagine for months rather like the people behind him like the nation as a whole had been caught up in the daily drama of Nixon's impeachment proceedings the blockbuster revelations stunning testimony and unpredictable twists and turns now it was all over the end of the line for the president and for the story. I think about this photo as I've spent the past month covering the impeachment hearings I can certainly understand how easy it is to get caught up in the day to day and lose sight of history being made this is only the 4th time in America's 230 years that a Us president has faced impeachment so this may not be uncharted territory but it is a path seldom traveled the room in which these impeachment hearings are being held certainly as a proper venue for such a historic occasion with its vaulted ceilings massive pillars topped by sculpted Eagles and a multi-level ornately carved wooden Dyess it is a room befitting an audience with a king or the removal of a president the times I've attended I can't help but think that at one point after all this is over I might sit like Dan Rather and ponder the gravity of what has taken place about how it all will be written in history books one day I know I'll feel as exhausted as rather looked but the reality is that any impeachment of Donald Trump if it does in fact happen isn't likely to have as dramatic and conclusive an ending as Nixon's unless there is a seismic change in the political dynamic even if the president is impeached there are plenty of votes in the Republican controlled Senate to keep him firmly encamped in the White House What finally drove Nixon from office was the ultimately overwhelming conclusion that he had abused the powers of office both Republicans and Democrats attended the same hearings reviewed the same evidence heard the same testimony and decided that the president had to go contrast that with the way things have gone with Trump so far Republicans and Democrats may sit in the same monumental here in chamber but it is as if they occupy entirely different realities they hear from the same witnesses but draw diametrically opposite conclusions. This political chasm is even more obvious when watching the hearings from inside the room in person you can hear the chattering of members of Congress seated in the front row of the spectators gallery even on the diocese the politicians are cliquish each side passing notes or huddling together to strategize while the other party is speaking this may be history writ large but it frequently feels very small I was a young child during Nixon's impeachment but all Americans now live in its shadow part of what made Watergate so devastating was that on the heels of the Vietnam War It felt like u.s. Institutions were failing a look at public opinion surveys show that American faith in government plummeted in the aftermath and has never really recovered one of the remarkable things about this particular moment in u.s. Politics is that however these impeachment hearings are finally concluded they will almost certainly push up against or even into the 2020 presidential election primary campaign with Democrats voting to choose their nominee to stand against Donald Trump in November's general election that point was driven home to me a few weeks ago as I left an impeachment hearing to fly to Atlanta to cover a Democratic candidates debate the next night perhaps I will never have my Dan Rather moment because there are fewer moments to reflect these days than there were in 1984 it seems like the news never stops anymore it's as if an entire nation will never have a chance to catch its collective breath. And that was Antony's. You were listening to from our own correspondent here on the b.b.c. World Service I'm Pascal Harter according to the World Health Organization in 2017 nearly half of all the people in sub-Saharan Africa didn't have access to a source of safe clean piped drinking water and in rural areas even fewer people can count on having water on tap in Tanzania in East Africa as the population grows there's an ever rising demand for water as well without much chance of getting to it but in one village in the north of the country there is a scheme which is using 21st century technology to change the way families fill a buckets and trying to make life easier for the women and the children often burdened with a chore of bringing them home Chloe foul went to find out how it's working sitting on a narrow wooden bench I shuffle around uncomfortably the village water committee meeting is running the hours late and unfortunately we divide on time next to me an old woman wrapped in layers of colorful patent fabric sits still shut seemingly detached from her surroundings further along the bench a middle aged man is texting on his phone we wait sheltered from the school Ching sun The hole is one of the few concrete buildings in this northern Tanzanian village it is sparsely furnished with just 3 long benches and an all teachers desk . The job takes his seat at the front of the room a Towsley man with piercing dark and a soft voice he is the secretary of the village woods a committee here everybody knows him this is the man we've come to meet at nearly 60 years old with job or has become the local tech guru over the last 2 years he has overseen a project led by a smooth British company that has transformed the villages access to clean water the farming village of Indiana Jan doesn't look like a tech hub you reach it by taking a shot right turn off the Todd road onto a dirt track the village lies a short ride away on the back of a Chinese made motorbike taxi through the fertile land of the Rift Valley scattered houses made of red of bricks branches and 10 moves lamang fields of green maze that overlook lake the battery known for its hippopotamuses every household in the village has at least one mobile phone but besides a couple of solar power generators only the school the health dispensary and a few houses here I connected to the electricity grid everyone depends on shared taps community and by the village for clean water collecting water is considered a woman's job it takes strength to carry the heavy buckets back home and until recently it took patients a lot of patients to get them filled the 2 women here used to queue up for hours sometimes from sunrise to midday to collect water from one of the old brass taps a woods vendor would hold the key to a padlock controlling the tap and collect money for each bucket filled which was meant to be handed over to the village water committee being a vendor was not a full time job so the queue for water would get ever longer as women waited for the seller to return from the fields get back from church or wake up after a long session of drinking locally brewed beer. But not anymore the old taps have been upgraded with Internet connected and solar power it's not meters that operate using magnetic tags which look like large Cohen's villages load up their tags with water credits which they buy with cash from one of a dozen local sellers at the top women how that tags against the meter to get the water flowing clean water for drinking cooking bathing and washing clothes can now be collected 24 hours a day and all the money paid can be used for maintenance Overman removes her tag when her buckets of filled and the tap shuts off she lifts the bright yellow bucket onto her head and carries a home without spilling a drop with the wood event is gone the long queues of disappeared in the village and women have more time to work in the fields even earning a little extra money with job you showed me how he tracks the villages water consumption in real time using the systems app on his smart phone as we've all technology the process isn't always move but he has learnt to persevere the job he was not born in Indiana Chan he came to the village as a young man to cultivate its fertile soil instead he has earned the villages respect for his dedication to keeping the taps running but in that China is going through a population boom the water supply system has attracted people from far field and the demand for water is rising fast if nothing is done to expand the system soon we will be forced to go back to our old ways jobber tells me sadly technology has made a real difference to the way people access water but the balance between supply and demand is still very fragile. chloé Found there Saudi Arabia has often been called a secretive society one where it's not easy for outsiders to figure out who's really making the decisions or to form close friendships with local people although a huge number of expatriates from all over the world live and work there and vast numbers of pilgrims visit each year it can seem that Saudi citizens and others in the country live in parallel worlds supporters of the defacto leader Prince Mohammed bin sound man call on other nations to support him in his efforts to open up the country but is M.B.'s and he's often known certain to maintain control he still needs to manage a tricky succession from the king then there is the question of just how much this self professed moderniser really does want to open Saudi Arabia up our Arab affairs editor Sebastian Usher recently returned to the capital and found a city being transformed at least on the surface the hooligans were up high in the stands about the football stadium in Riyadh they'd stripped off some of their clothing and were waving it wildly in the air above their heads this bunch of Saudi women were having the time of their lives their head scarves transformed into billowing black flags the showpiece game between Brazil and Argentina was the 1st football match I'd been to in Saudi Arabia for more than 2 decades back then the stadium was a symphony of Saudi men's traditional red and white coffee is and startlingly white unbroken by the black of a single woman's a buyer all those years ago I'd been invited by my Saudi sponsor the man who held my passport and my freedom to stay or leave an imposing figure he once played for the national team himself this business means imperiousness and all Thora he went unquestioned as he held the fate of dozens of expert trips in his hands the reality of those days was an inward looking and welcoming place barely brightened by the blazingly. It's of shopping miles you held your breath as you enter the city as if diving into a stagnant pool expatriate stayed underwater for years occasionally breaking to the surface with alcohol holidays and Affairs every outing to the shops was interrupted by a hurried rush as the pres began and the shutters came down the shop workers fearful of the religious police who patrolled relentlessly rounding up anyone who broke the rules for young Saudis their worlds were circumscribed by the high walls around their houses which expanded year after year on land reclaimed from the vast emptiness surrounding the city they moved from one private space to another visiting the equally enclosed homes of family and friends that Ria is gone the opening of a public space has transformed the city as has the banishing of the religious police from everyday life a young Saudi woman who's made her name as an influencer and a fashion designer told me how forbidding the city had once seemed to her now the pace of change meant she sometimes felt more conservative when she returned than her friends living in the country all the time she said that women getting the right to drive was the key moment even though she herself was yet to get a license her Saudi women friends she said now owned their own space putting them on an equal footing to man yet recently the Saudi security agency had to apologize for putting out an animated online clip would be quite feminism with terrorism I didn't bring up the Saudi women activists who battled for the right to drive for years 4 of whom are still in jail while even those on bail are still on trial for handing Saudi Arabia security and all denounced as traitors in the local media their treatment is a scar that runs right through the new look Saudi Arabia but it still doesn't mean that there hasn't been real change this is the paradox some of what's happening can indeed be dismissed as bread and circuses but the general effect has been electric an area called Riyadh Boulevard on the outskirts of the city a try. Thousands of people every night for about $30.00 you get access to a slightly hipper selection of shops than in the city huge cutouts of famous Arab singers lined the route towards the main street where veiled young Saudi sales women stop passers by to try fragrances a woman in a new car plays piano and a guitarist strums beside a huddle of food trucks there are dozens of restaurants where men and women mingle with no restrictions and from where they can watch a light show in an artificial lake every hour a few days earlier the festival atmosphere in Riyadh was shaken by a stabbing at a show in which several foreign performers were injured the motive of the attackers not been made public the next night the crowds were as big as ever undaunted by the 1st hint of a possible violent backlash aides and advisers to the man who wrote this change say this is why the world has to get behind Crown Prince Mohammed bin cell man the forces of reaction and repression could still hit back they say a year ago I was in Saudi Arabia to cover the aftermath of the killing of Jim Marshall g. The Saudi editor told me that it was one of those rarest of stories where every savage unbelievable detail turned out to be true the shadow of the murder seems less all embracing now foreign dignitaries are less shy about being seen in Saudi Arabia again but it's Horus still defines this new Saudi Arabia to much of the world even as a host of young Saudis professed to me with utter conviction their newfound pride in their national identity Sebastien Asher now back from Riyadh That's all for this edition of from our own correspondent but we will be back next weekend with more tales from around the world so do join us then here on the b.b.c. World Service. This is the b.b.c. World Service and. I have had 3 plastic bottles. Hydrocarbon all. Carbon and we are going to look at a particular process involving the indoor You might think this is what someone sounds like but where the b.b.c. Certainly on the b.b.c. World Service it's a bit like this. I want to know why we. Hold just how to make the perfect. Why don't not use on he getting. There. Is the point of laughter. We've got it covered science on the b.b.c. World Service at b.b.c. World Service dot com. I heard on the b.b.c. World Service it's Boston calling with me Marco Werman An American hacker stands accused of helping North Korea launder money on the surface it looks like you know cryptocurrency broke Korean help and fans of bluegrass music are passionate and diverse in good and bad ways the grass on answers for wide ranging but sometimes your encounter speed and I don't know I never got down with that but that over bluegrass and Boston calling after the news b.b.c. News with Stuart McIntosh the Saudi Air Force officer who shot dead 3 people at the Naval Base in Florida on Friday is reported to have watched videos of mass shootings before the killings earlier the u.s. Defense secretary Mark esper said he wasn't yet prepared to describe the shootings at Pensacola as a terrorist attack North Korea says it's carried out an important test of the rocket launching site state media gave no details the test follows a warning by Pyongyang saying it could take a new path a gunman of killed 2 members of a Brazilian Indigenous community in the northern state of Maryland the victims are from the Khwaja Jara ethnic group which would set up armed patrols to prevent illegal logging the i.m.f. Has reached a provisional deal to support Ukraine with a 5 and a half $1000000000.00 loan it said President to lend his government had made impressive progress in advancing reform thousands of people in one as there is have taken part in a farewell rally for Argentina's outgoing president Cree he promised to be constructive in his opposition to the new leader Alberto Fernandez President Trump has thanked Iran's what he called very fair negotiations which led to a prisoner exchange between the 2 countries he said the swap would prove that they could make deals together. Palestinian officials say Israeli warplanes have struck the Gaza Strip targeting 3 sites belonging to the military wing of Hamas there are no reports of casualties the British boxer and me Joshua has regained his world heavyweight titles at a fight in Saudi Arabia he beat the Mexican American Andy Ruiz Jr The German born evangelist Reinhard Bunker who drew huge crowds during his preaching the tours of Africa has died he was $79.00 among those who paid tribute to him is the Nigerian president Mahmoud who Bihari b.b.c. News. Hello from Boston I'm Marco Werman and this is Boston calling from the b.b.c. The program that puts a global perspective on the American experience as always it's great to have you with us this week wars and peace from a trade war with China this seems to be a core part of Trump's worldview and it's extremely problematic in a global economy to a drug war with gangs smuggling meth across the border from Mexico it doesn't just get to the border and then become catapulted to Boston or Chicago or other places there's supply infrastructure to deliver it on both sides of that border and a culture war among fans of American bluegrass. We are fighting wars on several fronts on this edition of Boston calling and the piece in this episode title wars and peace I promise you we will get there 1st though a battle of the 21st Century Cyber war it can take many forms in the United States is consistently on the lookout for hackers who might be helping us adversaries they're looking both outside and inside the u.s. a Case in point is a recent arrest of an American programmer who traveled to North Korea u.s. Authorities accuse him of giving information to the North Koreans on how to launder money using crypto currency and evade u.s. Imposed sanctions Here's Libya a man a leader with more on that Virgil Griffith is a 36 year old computer programmer a pretty big name in the hacking and crypto world he works for the Switzerland based a theory in foundation that's the company behind the crypto currency ether one of Bitcoin rivals Griffith is a u.s. Citizen he lives in Singapore on Thursday November 28th he flew into Los Angeles and shortly after getting off the plane he was arrested a message came through in a group chat I'm a part of and my personal Michelle reaction was like oh my God for. What did you do this is Taylor Monaghan She's the founder and c.e.o. Of my crypto that's a tool that lets people manage their cryptocurrency acids I know Virgil and I know that as a good person I know someone who is always sort of trying to connect people Monaghan started seeing headlines that made it look like the story was you know cryptocurrency broke us or North Korea to help stories that said Griffith had given North Koreans information about how to evade sanctions and launder money she says this seemed totally out of character myself and most people in the cryptocurrency community and most people who know Virgil their gut reaction was shock and it was what the heck and how did this happen here's how u.s. Officials describe what happened in their criminal complaint last April Griffith traveled to Pyongyang for a crypto currency conference organized by North Korea's committee for cultural relations with foreign countries u.s. Passport holders have to get permission from the State Department to travel to North Korea and according to the complaint Griffith applied and was denied but he went anyway while he was in Pyongyang officials say he broke a law that prohibits Americans from giving goods or services to North Korea in this case by giving the North Koreans a presentation and quote highly technical information on how to use crypto currencies to evade sanctions and launder money let me take a quick pause here and say that North Korea is already doing this we already have a substantial amount of information and research on how Korea uses and I would see embraces cryptocurrency is Priscilla more u.g. Is with the security company Recorded Future she used to work for the National Security Agency. She says that over the past few years North Korea has acquired hundreds of millions of dollars encrypted currencies remember this is money they can use anonymously the whole system is decentralized so not controlled by any government and regulations around it are pretty lax So when you find a way or all those things on top of each other right it's really a perfect operating environment for a country like North Korea so it makes sense that North Korea might want information from someone working with crypto currencies but friends of Virgil Griffith say this is not what happened of all the people I know Virgil is the person least likely to help a regime like North Korea that's Eric Corley He's the editor of the hacker magazine 2600 where Griffith is a contributing writer he says Griffith did go to North Korea but he didn't do anything wrong there didn't give them any information they couldn't find themselves online but here's where he says Griffith messed up in May the month after the conference Griffith was in New York and he agreed to meet with the f.b.i. Corley warned him against it told him he should get a lawyer and he was so convinced that they meant him no harm that he had nothing to hide and he just went there on his own Coralie remember seeing Griffith the next day and he was so happy said yes I gave them North Korean newspaper as they were very interested he basically has naive if they thought that just telling the f.b.i. What he knew was the wisest course of action Griffith spoke with f.b.i. Agents at least one more time in November he was arrested 2 weeks later in a statement Griffiths lawyer said quote We dispute the untested allegations in the criminal complaint and that his client looks forward to his day in court if convicted Griffith could face up to 20 years in prison Lydia and then a leader reporting there since he became president Donald Trump has been waging trade wars on several fronts his weapon of choice terrorists I happen to think that tariffs for a country. A very powerful you know with the face tariffs and tax selecting museums and billions of terrorize defending America's national security by placing tariffs on foreign imports of steel and aluminum just this past week Trump threatened tariffs on imports from Brazil and Argentina and friends more tariffs on Chinese imports are looming Jason Margolis covers business and economics for the world our weekday program for listeners here in the u.s. So what is behind Trump's obsession with tariffs Well the president has been focused on tariffs really since the 1980 s. When he was attacking Japan back when he was a businessman making the rounds on all the popular daytime talk shows and he sees tariffs as an effective tool he famously said early in his presidency quote where are my tariffs bring me my tariffs when his advisors were not providing him with enough options quickly enough I spoke with economist Lee Branstetter at Carnegie Mellon University he focuses on trade issues about why President Trump was so focused on tariffs and this is what he told me the general obsession of the Trump administration with tariffs with protectionism with moving away from free and open flows of goods services and capital this seems to be a core part of Trump's worldview and it's extremely problematic in a global economy where supply chains are global and u.s. Industries are very much integrated with industries around the world. Jason when brands that are said this view is extremely problematic I mean where could it lead Well it could lead to a race to the bottom so more than a 1000 economists sent a letter to President Trump last year stating that his views echo errors made in the 1930 s. So the United States impose tariffs of the $1000.00 thirty's and that prolong the Great Depression and the data shows that trumps tariff policies are not working in fact are having the opposite desired effect metal manufacturing jobs are down manufacturing is off farmers in the us are struggling to get by foreclosures are way up businesses can't operate in this uncertainty it's very very hard to find supporters of President Trump's tariff policies that's Democrats Republicans farmers the Chamber of Commerce the Wall Street Editorial Board economists are all blasting this policy but who does it appeal to it appeals to his base who likes that Trump is standing up for the United States and acting tough So who exactly is advising Trump and are they telling him just focus on the Dow Jones you don't have to worry about manufacturing all that other stuff right so President trumps main trade advisor right now is an economist named Peter Navarro and Bob Woodward wrote in his book fear that nearly all economists disagree with Trump but he found an academic economists who hated free trade as much as he did I sleep Branstetter what he thought of Navarro Peter Navarro his views are really very very different from the research mainstream. There's really nothing in his recent writing on trade that really connects to science or research he is really off on his own wheedling So I just should add that Gary Cohn who was the president's chief economic advisor who left last year he said 99.999 percent of economists agreed with him that tariffs are a bad idea which is basically true but Trump went with Navarro Well Jason Margolis thank you you're welcome. Tariffs are just one of the items on the agenda of the end you're meeting a leaders from NATO countries so too was a brief back and forth about the relevance of NATO which is as you may know a collective alliance that includes the us Canada and $27.00 European nations days before the summit even took place French president Emmanuel Macross said the alliance was suffering brain death when the summit began macron stood by his words I know that not my faith in great in some way shape or leave a lot of people. But Trump himself a frequent critic of NATO took issue with macros description you just can't go around making say it's like that it's very disrespectful this year's annual meeting had a bit more pomp about it because it marked NATO 70th anniversary but given Trump and cross comments some wonder whether the alliance can survive another 70 years Chris Wolf has been looking into how NATO has overcome its past stresses NATO was born out of war World War 2 and a desire to prevent another war Nicholas Burns is a former us Ambassador to NATO the West European countries had largely been destroyed by World War 2 If the United States and the West European countries and Canada had informed the alliance on April 4th 1949 there's every reason to believe the Soviets would have pushed further into the democracies of Western Europe and the United States could not let that happen so this was a treaty in the self interest of the United States as well as Canada and the European countries the treaty was signed in Washington on April 4th 1949. President Harry s. Truman spoke for the United States at the ceremony if there is anything that will today if there is anything in evidence in the future it is that will of the people of the world freedom and. The us had never had a defensive alliance in peacetime before the founding fathers. Others had warned against foreign entanglements and that resistance continued into the 1940 s. Nato's founding fathers like Secretary of State Dean Acheson how to win the support of Congress and the American people. From Washington u.s. Secretary of State Dean Acheson goes on the free world to unite against aggression in his 1st Atlantic mac address and I think back to collective self-defense arrangement among the countries of the North Atlantic area it is that simple fact proved by giving. That an outside attack upon one member of this community is an attack upon all members at Justin's argument for collective self-defense is enshrined in Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. The idea was to deter Soviet attack and Ambassador Nicholas Burns says it worked NATO was extraordinarily successful because it was able to deter the Soviet Union and later modern Russia from thinking of a conventional attack into Western Europe that was a real danger now NATO had plenty of ups and downs and opposition especially in Western Europe but after 40 years of stubborn containment of Soviet power NATO got this. Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall. The Berlin Wall that symbol of the division of Europe came crashing down in 1909 the Soviet Union itself collapsed 2 years later it was a critical crossroads for NATO Some said it should simply disband but under the Clinton administration NATO and the European Union expanded east would in part to fill the power vacuum in Eastern Europe Ambassador Burns again and this was I think one of the greatest things that NATO has ever done and it's why NATO is relevant today in 2001 thing because if we had not extended this security guarantee of NATO to the east European countries you can bet that the Russian Federation would be seeking to dominate them today but Russia cannot not everyone agrees the project of East where expansion I think is at the root of a lot of the problems that we are facing today he said Russia that's James Carter a former advisor to the State Department on Russia the problem became very clear towards the end of the ninety's that Russia wasn't going to react very well to the idea that. The alliance was going to expand right to its western most border Evo Daalder has his own thoughts on this he's another former u.s. Ambassador to NATO Russia is Russia I think the Russian we're seeing today under Vladimir Putin is not that different from the Russian We have seen over the course of. History a country somewhat in securing its own borders and seeking security by expanding its reach to its neighboring countries NATO expansion is not what produced that Russia's own history and its own behavior is what has produced it that brings us to Donald Trump and he 3 of the $28.00 member nations are still not paying what they should be Donald Trump's NATO debut in May 2017 he criticized America's allies for failing to pay their way as have other presidents but he falsely claimed they owed the u.s. Money Trump also failed to voice support for Article 5 The One for All and all for one guarantee at the heart of NATO it's just it's so one helpful when he's kicking the most important allies in the ass publicly doing things that are not helpful That's Lieutenant General bin Hodges Hodges was commander of the Us Army in Europe till his retirement from the service in 2017 I never in my life imagine an American president call into question articles but that's I mean that's that's unbelievable to me and it's caused people have to do a lot of extra work to explain Don't worry we're still committed you know we're here trump administration officials have reaffirmed u.s. Commitment to NATO and Article 5 but some analysts are asking if NATO is now at another crossroads Chris Wolf there are NATO is trials and tribulations and we're at our own crossroads where the sign post says You're listening to Boston calling on the b.b.c. World Service with me Marco Werman our theme this week wars and peace and if you are keeping track of these things Chris is report was the piece in our program today which means another war is up ahead this one a culture war between fans of the American roots music known as bluegrass bluegrass audiences are wide ranging but sometimes you will encounter hate speech or sort of symbolism that encroaches upon other people's comfort and I don't know I never got down with that but before we get to the battles of Bluegrass the war on drugs specifically drugs mug. Years it's been more than a decade since the United States began to help Mexico with its war on drugs since 2008 the u.s. Has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to help Mexico take on the cartels but as Monica Campbell now reports there is little sign that the war is being won 1st a trained dog smell the drugs then an x. Ray revealed the stash in the trailer heading in from Mexico in this campaign about 100 packages of sentinel and I believe some 200 packages and methamphetamines That's Michael Humphries a u.s. Border official at a press conference this year in Nogales Arizona the Arizona bust was big but typical in terms of how drugs get to the u.s. Through busy checkpoints as a result of corruption on both sides Tony Wayne was u.s. Ambassador to Mexico under President Obama it doesn't just get to the border and then become catapulted to Boston or Chicago or other places there's supply infrastructure to deliver and on both sides of that border in 2008 the u.s. And Mexico pledged to fight organized crime it was a $3000000000.00 plan that funded military equipment like helicopters and also helped train police go after money laundering and strengthen Mexico's courts but success is hard to spot today violence in Mexico is increasing again and cartels don't just dealing drugs anymore there's human trafficking oil theft and extortion Mexico's president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is still leaning on the military to fight crime but also has a new approach that he puts quite simply no less hugs not bullets let's avoid all out battles he says that has proved to be so far a total failure Monica said I know a crime expert in Mexico City says it's a failure big. As cartels don't feel threatened by a simple military presence at the same time she says more military isn't the answer either so what would it take to try to put in place the Reich kind of policies I really don't know this much is clear she says Mexico can't win while there's a demand for drugs in the u.s. That ends up garnering Mexico in a situation in which Don if you do if you resort to more firepower mobilize military means and damn if you don't as is happening right now we'd love to serve another president Lopez Obrador says he wants to focus on fighting corruption in funding education and jobs to keep young people from joining cartels Meanwhile President Trump is focused on the border wall and migration Mexico is working with Trump to try and keep migrants away from the u.s. But a new agreement on fighting organized crime make it tougher after gunmen ambushed a u.s. Mexican family in Mexico 6 children were killed Trump said it was quote time for Mexico with the help of the United States to wage war on the drug cartels It was unclear what Trump was offering exactly but locus approach or rejected any hint of intervention. No no he said we need to protect Mexico's national sovereignty a key feature of the country's foreign policy is to former Ambassador Wayne it was a sign of tension just as Mexico and the u.s. Must work together because of the stakes in the United States if the 10s of thousands who are dying from overdoses and in Mexico it's the 10s of thousands over 30000 last year who died from violent homicides much of which is fueled by drug related crime and there's one request. That many people in Mexico asked the u.s. Stop the flow of guns into Mexico Mexican cartels armed with American gun supplying America's demand for drugs a recipe for a seemingly endless war Monica Campbell reporting there Joe troop is a cultural warrior for bluegrass music bluegrass is a style of music from the Appalachian region of the Southeastern u.s. Joe's aim is to take bluegrass beyond states like Kentucky and his home state of North Carolina to find a global audience. After a bout of wanderlust in 2010 Joe troupe moved to Buenos Aires to become a bluegrass music teacher he admits it was a crazy idea but he had some notably talented students in Argentina together they formed a band. Playing bluegrass with a Latin twist their latest album is called rearrange my heart for the 1st 5 or 6 years of our existence all that we did was play Appalachian folk music and that seemed amazingly our vanguard to have a bluegrass band in the city of queerness I decided I mean it's just if you live there you like this could not be any less of a bluegrass place and they brought to the table their natural selves you know the sound of their lives is you know. All these things that you just hear on the street or you hear in your school or dance parties you know so when we started doing that everything just started flowing and it was like this mystical transformation so you call this Latin grass or as your grass what's the word Yeah Latin grass was a good marketing terminology that the artist in Mexico came up with and we were like Oh that's great and it's a good thing he came up with that word because it helped to fuel the band's identity in the United States. Should I guess we can think of this album rearrange my. Hard as a bluegrass album and also up in bluegrass themes there's a track called the wall I think we know what that's about there's also another song about called the dreamer and that song was inspired by a friend of yours was a Serrano a doctor recipient and a star in this 2060 documentary forbidden and documented and clear in rural America what was it about Maus is Serranos story that struck you. Well I met my sis at a conference in Charlotte and he is was a prominent voice and out undocumented person and as and out queer person and so I did a 5 with you know I'm queer myself so I identified with that immediately but I saw the parallels between you know being an undocumented person and coming out in both ways simultaneously a story that struck me as very interesting so I basically approached him he was sitting there with his mother at the conference and I said you know this is really cool I'd like to watch your documentary he said in a link I was able to watch it and I thought you know. Here's a guy who's in the public arena he's a political activist I should write a song about him and we should team up and try to you know change people's stance on what they call evil eagles which of course that's their word not mine but you know I you sure it is kind of if you're around North Carolina for long enough you hear people talk about undocumented immigrants probably within a couple hours and almost always in a negative way so I asked him for permission at some point last year hey can I write a song about you and he's like yeah. Joe in so many ways I mean Bluegrass the music you play is American and the fusion of bluegrass with Latin American music is also totally American in these times whether your music is political or not in its lyrics does it feel like an act of dissent to create music that steps out of the bounds of what many people think is Bluegrass Man everything in the United States and in a lot of other countries too has fallen into the clutches of division based politics so the idea of Chapel actually to tell news stories which challenge that awful narrative bluegrass audiences are wide ranging but sometimes you'll encounter hate speech that bluegrass festivals are sort of symbolism that encroaches upon other people's comfort and I don't know I never got down with that and I think bluegrass when it was coming into existence it wasn't that at all I think it's been a strange from what it really is you said something interesting too about how the idea of of the Americas as a place I mean that's another thing that drew me to Argentina is this sense of well that that country similar to the United States they're trying to forge their identity still and I don't know the bluegrass instrumentation even has the same issue. It's like the banjo doesn't know what it is yet it's still figuring it out and so there's all this newness in the Americas and all these countless cultures which came together and are producing something new and it's just fascinating so I like the idea of being an artistic American interest and trying to create an artistic dialogue between all of these places. Troupe co-founder of the court. Thanks very much for being with us great to me and I think you did work of. Reclaiming bluegrass and turning the genre into something new it is cool stuff and sadly that's where we'll have to end things today you've been listening to the wars and peace edition of Boston calling we're online at b.b.c. World Service dot com slash Boston calling our podcast is available wherever you find b.b.c. Podcasts Boston calling to produce a w g.b.h. In Boston in partnership with p.r. X. For me Marco Werman and the rest of our team until next time Have yourselves a great week now on the b.b.c. World Service the next part of our series meeting teenagers who are trying to change there were a little homage Elgindy spent years living in Lebanon after fleeing his home in Syria now living in Sweden he's able to attend school but in Lebanon he built one more than once it now helps from around 200 refugee children get access to education the kids are all right as b.b.c. World Service don't come. And in 30 minutes the cultural front line and this is it all week I will be finding out how to clean producers and D.J.'s and breaking both ends and helping to connect Palestinians who are separated by a war Stay with us Denise Rich is next on the b.b.c. World Service this week station. At 5 hours g.m.t. Welcome to the newsroom from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Alex Ritson reports the Saudi Air Force officer who shot dead 3 people at a u.s. Air Base in Florida that attacked American foreign policy on social media anybody that comes to United States to train is or should be is vetted by the Department State Department Homeland Security and then ultimately us pro-democracy campaigners in Hong Kong predict what could be one of their biggest demonstrations yet to Brazil so-called Guardians of the forest a shot dead in an area under threat from illegal loggers Nigeria's celebrates alongside Britain as Antony Joshua winds back his wall heavyweight boxing titles from Andy Yeah that's right you know just how supportive is Nigel that there really is also necessity and the world's big sleep out highlights the scale of global homelessness this is symbolic we do we all kind and we can become passionate This is the b.b.c. . I'm Mr McIntosh with the b.b.c. News Hello the f.b.i. Has appealed for help in tracing the movements of the Saudi Air Force officer who shot dead 3 people at a naval base in Florida Mohammed Saeed hours for money opened fire the facility in Pensacola on Friday there are reports that he showed of videos of mass shootings before carrying out the attack Roger Walker has more details u.s. Media quote an unnamed official is saying that left channel Mohammed Saeed Rani showed friends the videos at a dinner party the gunman who was undergoing aviation training at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola is also said to have tweeted criticism of American involvement in foreign wars and to have praised Osama bin Laden but the u.s. Defense secretary Mark Asper said he was not yet ready to Vader Friday's shootings as a terrorist attack at least 30 people have died in a huge factory fire in the Indian capital Delhi The blaze in the mandi area broke out in the early hours of the morning reports say many people were asleep in the building the Fire Service says at least 50 people have been rescued but there are fears that others are still trapped details are still coming in North Korea says it's carried out a very important test at its satellite launching site in so her. Young earlier warned that it could take a new path as denuclearization talks with the United States remain stalled and Busbee reports the state news agency gave no details of the test but said the results would be used to upgrade North Korea's strategic status analysts believe it may have been a ground based test of a rocket engine which could be used to power a satellite launcher or an intercontinental ballistic missile president Trumper said he still hopes to reach an agreement on denuclearization but the North Korean leader Kim Jong un has said that to revive the negotiations the president must come up with a deal involving significant sanctions relief.

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