He lives in political asylum in Norway using social media to challenge what he calls the Arab tyrants our dignity or we die trying our liberty or we die trying and this is not again this is not a slogan This is a conviction of the mission not only for me I'm only I'm only one person I'm only one voice here there are thousands of people like me even millions of people like me who simply don't have this platform and don't have this voice and I have to channel their voice that Al Baghdadi on hard talk after the news. Hello I'm Erin Marshall with the b.b.c. News the leaders of the protest movement in Sudan the Sudanese professionals' Association so they're stopping all contact with the military and have called for a general strike they made the announcement after security forces opened fire on protesters killing at least 12 people and injuring dozens the latest from Tomi Oladipo we've been hearing of a lot of security action from the forces who have been gathered around the army headquarters in heart breaking up the protest certain And we're hearing the casualty figures have been rising we'll be hearing more of that as the hours go on protest groups say that they are seizing communication with the military was the ruling military regime there saying that this is no environment for talks and they're putting all the blame of the casualties all the violence on the security forces about 800 women and children who began leaving a detention center in northern Syria that is housed the families of Islamic state group fighters the details from our Arab affairs editor Alan Johnston at least 17 buses have left the whole camp those on board were Syrian women and their children who are being allowed to return to hometowns in there by Iraqi province the transfer will ease pressure on the badly overcrowded camp which holds more than 70000 people among those in detention are women who came to Islamics the group controlled territory from all around the world some remain deeply radicalized and loyal to. Their home countries have been very reluctant to take them back at the start of the u.s. President's 3 day state visit to Britain around has erupted between Donald Trump and the mayor of London City can on the flight over President Trump called Mr Can a stone cold loser after a scathing newspaper article by Mr Can the mare's spokesman called the president's response childish Here's our political. Respondent Robertson I don't think anyone is hugely surprised by it I think what you have to say stepping back is just how incredibly unusual that I mean normally British politicians would be lining up to associate themselves with the United States president hoping that some of the sort of the glitz and the glory would rub off but I mean for most British politicians not all of them I mean I think some of the hardcore Praxiteles they love the sort of disruptive elements of Donald Trump but for most British politicians he's seen as being toxic Russia has dismissed President drums demand that it's warplanes stop bombing the rebel held Syrian province of Italy where they've been reports of many casualties the Kremlin spokesman said terrorists in the stronghold were launching unacceptable attacks on civilians and Russian troops in nearby areas it live is dominated by a jihadi faction that used to be linked to Al Qaida You're listening to the latest world news from the b.b.c. An Iraqi court has sentenced to more French citizens to death for joining the Islamic state group this brings to 11 the number of Frenchmen condemned to death for the same crime in a string of trials in recent days all the accused are from a group captured in Syria and handed over to Iraq earlier this year the Supreme Court in Spain has refused permission for the cattle and separatist leader Jordi Sanchez to leave prison to join political consultations with King Philippe the judges ruled that anyone else from his party could take his place he's been in custody since October 2017 and is currently on trial for his part in the Catalan administration's unilateral drive for independence that month. The bodies of 5 climbers have been found on the slopes of the Himalayan mountain Nunda Davy more than a week after a team of 8 lost contact with base camp with the latest from India his young. Indian Air Force helicopters that have been searching the ridges and on that day we have come back with grim news Rescuers say they've seen bodies on the slopes of the mountain they've been searching for 8 climbers who were meant to return to base camp on Friday authorities are now trying to assess how to retrieve the bodies from such treacherous terrain where helicopters cannot land bad weather has also been affecting operations under Davie is considered one of the toughest mountains in the world to climb Qatar has been condemned by its Gulf Arab neighbors for rejecting the outcome of recent regional summits that criticized Iran the Qataris attended the meetings which were hosted by Saudi Arabia but they say they weren't properly consulted and some conclusions reached were contrary to Carter's foreign policy the Saudis say the Qataris should have made their reservations clear at the meetings the u.a.e. Said this was a reflection of Qatar's weakness and lack of credibility relations between Qatar and its neighbors have long been tense b.b.c. News. Welcome to talk on the b.b.c. World Service with me Stephen Sackur my guest today is one of the loudest most high profile critics of what he calls the tyrants still exercising power in much of the Arab world perhaps unsurprisingly Iyad al Baghdadi is unable to live in his home region instead his political activism and tireless social media commentary is conducted from Norway where he was granted political asylum 4 years ago he was a friend an associate of the Saudi journalist and reform advocate Jamal Khashoggi who was murdered inside the Saudi consulate last October 6 months on Norwegian intelligence acting on information from the CIA warned Mr Al Baghdadi that he too could be a target now despite that he continues to speak out against the authoritarianism he sees not just in Saudi Arabia but in Egypt and a host of other Arab states strongman rule he contends is simply not sustainable and will lead the region to disaster but after the chaos of violence and repression that followed the Arab Spring who is going to listen to the region's political revolutionaries while he joins me from Oslo now welcome to hard to thank you so much for having me Stephen you live in political asylum in Oslo of course Norway deemed to be a very safe place to be and yet just a few short weeks ago you were informed that there were serious threats to your safety tell me who the warning came from and what it based and jest might happen to you while the warning came from the Norwegian intelligence who over here in Norway we call the p s t they showed up at my doorstep and they took me to a meeting at a safe location where they informed me that they were informed a park or. Teligent agency passed the tip to them saying that I'm a target of course it was later reporting by The Guardian that confirmed that the that parking Parker agency is indeed the CIA. They didn't describe the nature of the threat except to say that I had crosshairs on my back well without wishing to be too sensationalist about it sounds really very serious Well I mean the threat itself was described as unspecified but the seriousness of this is that I mean to me you know as someone who was receiving these news is that I'm a non us citizen who does not live in the United States and that was the question that kind of arose to my mind the CIA a passing a tip to the Norwegians about someone who is not a who was neither American and doesn't live in the United States seems to me that to indicate a certain level of risk a certain level of threat you say you're working on something and you knew from the get go it was something very sensitive and potentially dangerous So what is it and are you continuing to work on it I mean I've been working with my team at the collector the foundation on a number of projects and I mean I'm only clear to speak about the some of these projects because there are other projects that continue to be deeply sensitive and deeply you know confidential but I believe the most sensitive of these and the one that that's probably most public and most likely to have been the direct the direct cause the direct piece of work that actually led to the threats is my work with Jeff Bezos is investigation team in putting together reports that went to federal authorities indicating that the Saudis have 1st of all conducted a campaign against Jeff Bezos and and also have hacked his phone yet you talk about the business connection and of course this is a complex connection but in essence Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. The Washington Post was the newspaper where Jamal Khashoggi wrote his columns off the charge is murder the Washington Post was perhaps one of the strongest media organizations demanding a complete review of u.s. Policy toward Saudi Arabia the Saudis I dare say we're very much less than happy with the Washington Post coverage so Jeff Bezos is connected to that whole story is he financing you today well he's not I mean on our engagement with Jeff Bezos as investigation team did not involve any kind of compensation for a time or for what for our for our work it wasn't a contractual kind of relationship I mean that said I mean I would I would simply add to your description of the Jeff Bezos is situation here is that I believe at the time of Jamal should just murder Jeff Bezos found himself in a bit of a quandary a bit of a complex fire as he's as he describes it because this isn't that who you know on the Washington Post for which you work but it's also he's also a man who had you know business ties and direct a kind of direct relationship with M.B.A.'s so you know he had to pick a side yes and we should remind everybody when you say M.B.'s you mean Crown Prince Mohammed bin Solomon the de facto leader of power in Saudi Arabia today let's talk more about Crush argy because you were an associate of his and he was a man who consistently in the media called for fundamental reform and change in Saudi Arabia you've done the same thing your arab tyrant manual website and your blogs are consistently targeting Saudi Arabia as one of the Arab countries that is most in need of an end to all Thora terrorism and repression Were you surprised when Khashoggi was murdered inside that consulate building in Istanbul Oh yes I mean I think everybody was surprised I don't think we expected the worst case scenario to be a murder and to be honest when I heard the news I thought that the worst case scenario the absolute nightmare scenario would have been the rendition. I mean kidnapping taking him back to Saudi Arabia and forcing him to read a statement on video saying you know I returned home of my own you know by my own will we really never expected that go this far you have used your significant social media presence Twitter various forms of social media and blogging as well to in the wake of the Qatar g murder try and persuade people around the world to change their view of Saudi Arabia and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Solomon in particular would you accept that here we are 7 or 8 months on and you a failed Well I mean it's an interesting question here I think of the world I mean when it comes to be as as a reformer I think that reformer image is is just done it's gone it's gone I don't think anybody today accepts n.b.s. As a liberal reformer the only reason why he continues to wield this kind of I mean the only reason why this he continues to be unaccountable is because the administration in the world that is most capital of holding him to account continues to be his biggest enabler and of course I mean 2 personalities 2 particular people Trump and more importantly the United States why do you say Jared Kushner is more important what I believe Jared cushion or of course he's he's n.b.s. Is what's a buddy I believe he is the key enabler here because he has this direct relationship and friendship with and b.s. And I think he is the gatekeeper to trump in there and you would like it perhaps to be personal and you pin it on Donald Trump and George Bush No but isn't the truth that in the United States and indeed in London and other Western capitals there is a recognition that fundamentally Saudi Arabia remains a key strategic ally in a very turbulent region you hear that in London I spoke on hard talk to Jeremy Hunt the foreign secretary just the other day about this. He was also extremely careful in his comments about Saudi Arabia precisely because of that important strategic relationship absolutely or Absolutely this is absolutely correct I mean this is actually the quandary over here Saudi Arabia is a very important country and will continue to be a very important country and it's a very important economy it's a very important population very dynamic population and this is why n.b.s. Is that problematic it's because you know he has dismantled this kind of you know kind of consultative monarchy let's say and really establish an absolute this regime and he's this he's now in the situation where the world needs to continue to engage Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia as you mentioned is an important country but I think everybody now realizes that n.b.s. Himself is a problem well do they really feel it as strongly as you suggest because if one looks at what has happened in recent months and yes we can talk about Donald Trump's insistence on partnership and similar words coming out of the u.k. Government but also look at the corporate activity some of those big corporations that shied away from the so-called Davos in the desert investment summit that the Saudis were hoping to be such a big success last autumn Well they've now gone back to Saudi Arabia I noticed the big entertainment conglomerate in the u.s. AMC is back building those cinemas in Saudi John Flint the boss of h.s.b.c. Bank he went back to Saudi recently saying it is a privilege to be in Saudi Arabia Larry Fink the super investor from Wall Street he is saying that the changes that he sees in Saudi Arabia are quote pretty amazing so the corporate world as well as the geo political world is still in there in Saudi Arabia and frankly still backing M.B.'s Well it goes back to the point of Saudi Arabia being an important country and being a society that actually needs support. I mean I wouldn't want the status quo that ordinary Saudis experience to you know to deteriorate in this situation and b.s. Is using this to this very. Very point the fact that Saudi Arabia is an important economy is an important country is an important ally to really you know increase the risk of political basically increase political risk increase economic risk and of course include increased instability in the region so I think this is really the quandary over here that has really posed to the world and of course people like me to people like you let's be honest Mr Al Baghdadi your message and it's captured perhaps in your you know your own website the Arab tyranny manual your messages that these you call them tyrants have to go but the world looks at what happened in 2011 in the Arab Spring the Arab uprisings and the toppling of or for a Tarion whether it be Hosni Mubarak or whether it be a good doctor in Libya and they see the chaos that followed and they years on frankly many people don't believe that the tyrants must go because what comes after them might be a whole lot worse Well of course this is something that you know this is a question that I've been asked continuously since 2011 I mean the my my my go to response really is to point to democratic transitions elsewhere democratic transitions take time and there are messy matters you know this is a 30 year project 35 year project 40 year project we're 8 years into it I mean if you ask the same question about Europe what did Europe's transition to democracy look like I mean if you look at the Arab region right now you're going to see to see certain countries which are in free fall you're going to see terror groups you're going to see civil wars you're going to see proxy wars you're going to see authoritarian consolidation you're going to see refugee waves and also you're going to see popular resistance I mean less pronounced let's not forget Sudan and Algeria right there right now at this moment. What I submit to you is that this is what a democratic transition looks like and these Arab dictators are really standing in the way of the future I mean what I want to do with I mean they want to ship stability you make a hugely important point but what I submit to you is that hundreds of thousands of dead in Syria Hoff of the country's population displaced those statistics speak of people who cannot afford for your 30 year experiment your 30 year gamble on something better to pay off you know the humanitarian cost over the last 8 years has been so high that maybe it's better to stick with the all for a Terry and that we see well imagine if we asked this question in 1944 about Hitler's Germany I mean imagine if it was the question we say you know when all of these you know all of these figures about how many people in concentration camps came up Imagine if the world said this is enough let's stick with what we have imagined that well if you want to use that metaphor then you have to believe that this is some sort of existential crisis for the Arab world where your equating M.B.'s and his or foreign terrorism with Naziism I would say to you that if you look at M.B.'s in the round his commitment to change in Saudi Arabia you do see that you know he's giving new rights to women including the right to drive he's opening up the country there is a different atmosphere many visitors to Saudi Arabia comment upon it so to assume that you can compare that brand of all thorough terrorism with Naziism is frankly highly questionable well not Cism as always of course used as the extreme example over here but let me just say there are extremists who you know persecute religious minorities and behead journalists and there are other extremists in this case those who you know torture women's rights activists and run gender apartheid regimes and this. Members journalists I mean I don't think we should always be you know imprisoned in this kind of false dichotomy between worse and worse I think we can project both I understand what you are saying I'm just thinking about where you sit through no fault of your own you used to be a resident in the u.a.e. You were forced out and you claimed and got political asylum in Oslo but it does mean you can fire off your extremely fiery web blog posts and Twitter. Commentary to the Arab world telling Arabs that they should no longer accept for example the repression of the c.c. Regime in Egypt Egypt a very interesting example because See see you know thanks to what many people call the coup d'etat has imposed a form of military rule in Egypt but he has delivered economic growth it's going to be nearly 6 percent this year he's won billions of dollars of new investment particularly from China and he would argue that he has replaced a government the Brotherhood Muslim Brotherhood government that was taking Egypt down the path of chaos well in the case of c.c. I mean particularly I mean I mean I've just finished sitting with a Freedom Forum with a bunch of Egyptian activists and the fact is that I mean those figures really do not reflect the reality of the everyday reality of Egyptians because even though g.d.p. Is increasing at this is not only a problem in Egypt by the way but in many countries in the world inequality is still rising the the resilience of society the resilience of this regime is really being eaten away by this you know by. Authoritarianism but I would also add some context over here of course the point that that you lead with is that it's easy for me to sound off these things from exile the fact is that the majority of let's let's let me just tell you that for example listeners in our podcast The majority of the top 2 cities adrià than just the. A majority of the people who consume our material are actually within the Arab world so what do you do Mr Al Baghdadi you've got your foundation you say that you're committed to helping homegrown activism to to build civil society to create new institutions in the Arab world that will help on the road to freedom and democracy but in practical terms in this repressive environment we're talking about what can you actually do yes so this basically leads us back to the to our projects and of course because we're a small team or a small foundation I mean maybe the word foundation gives this impression of bigness but really where we're you know where we're almost where funded by local organizations and Norway but also by our audience so we don't have a lot of resources so we have to be very realistic about what we can achieve and this is why we always look for you know projects or investigations or things to work on which which which have which you know are very sensitive very damaging to dictators but also within our reach within within within our capacity as a small team can you give me some examples Well a lot of these projects as I mentioned been instructed not not to talk about because they're sensitive and because they might be a reason why why I'm under threat but one example of course is the basis investigation where we're helping in this case the richest man in the world and then who has been targeted by the Saudi regime by n.b.s. Himself to put together reports that would go to the f.b.i. And would actually lead to some kind of institutional action because this is as the as you can imagine a national security matter there are other projects like that that we're working on of course and you know the majority of them are things we cannot we cannot disclose but it's just I'm very mindful because I lived in Egypt in the 1990 s. And even then I'm mindful of the degree to which there was suspicion perhaps fueled by the state media and. Has to be said but suspicion all of N.G.O.s many of which receive funding from outside the country particularly United States but countries like Norway as well you know you could think about the National Democratic Institute and other organizations which will portrayed as somehow being you know tools and puppets of western influence how do you avoid that well I mean this is a question of course the is absolutely a question that we think about very deeply because we don't want to include we want we don't want to be integrated in this kind of think tank kind of ecosystem and this is why the backbone of our support continues to be our audience I mean the people who consume our material the people who donate to us you know online this is the backbone of our support this continues to be the main funding source that we have I'm mindful that not just in the Middle East but around the world we are in a sense in an era of strongman rule you know one could look at the examples of China and Russia and say that perhaps you see your M.B.A.'s are looking more to them for their political and inspiration than they are to the democracies of Western Europe do you believe that you can win this battle against wrong man rule. I think I think the wind in our sails as history itself let's say I mean as a dear friend says history is in good hands I think the fact is that these dictators since 2014 when you know we had this rise of a counter-revolution an axis of Arab counterrevolution we were really concerned that you know what are they going to do at this point because the Arab Spring represented the vision it's represented certain values certain convictions that people really went out to the streets and died for I mean one people actually go down to the streets and take bullets and then go down to the streets again and chant again for liberty and for you know for for dignity this is these are convictions these are no longer slogans we thought you know. Now that they are back in control they're going to actually work on presenting an alternative vision. And they have failed they have not presented the vision or whatever vision they presented really or whatever social contract they put on the table is really something which does not inspire the average Arab citizen and this is why you see a continuation of the Arab Spring you see it in Sudan you see it's an Algerian So this is not over the story is not over at all interesting you know the story is not over one running 3 themes through this interview has been the importance of Saudi Arabia are you seriously suggesting to me that you can imagine revolutionaries on the streets of Riyadh and Jedda you can imagine the monarchy being toppled in Saudi Arabia and if you can what do you think replaces it well I mean let me qualify that 1st I think there's an Arabic saying and I'm going to say it in Arabic and then loosely translated. It means the last remedy of the last cure is cauterization it means you know what this means to me is that revolution popular uprising is read of the last remedy. In an ideal world you don't want to go there you don't want to get there it's really one all avenues of change have been closed in your face that you actually go there Ideally we would have a change you know. A more controlled change would have actually you know serious reform where the ruling elites in certain countries realize that this is not good even for us this is not this is not stable this is not sustainable that's that's what we would like to see happening because you know let's face it I mean popular uprising is a very very dangerous gamble in the end you only go there if all other avenues are closed and talking of danger we must end but I want to end personally we talked at the beginning about the perceived threat to you I happen to know you have at least one child in school in Norway and that created some fuss when the warnings 1st hit you a few weeks ago. What would it take for you to feel that this fight you're in is no longer worth it. The saloon really really difficult question Stephen because it's a very personal and you brought up my son and. I want to raise a son who realizes that dignity is worth our life our dignity is worth our life and this is a message I sent him when I 1st arrived in 2014 and also in a speech I gave for the also Freedom Forum our dignity or we die trying our liberty or we die trying and this is not again this is not a slogan This is a conviction of life's mission mission not only for me I'm only I'm I'm only one person I'm only one voice here there are thousands of people like me even millions of people like me who simply don't have this platform and don't have this voice and I have to channel their voice yet Baghdadi we have to leave it there but I thank you very much indeed for joining me on all. This is the b.b.c. World Service with thought provoking accounts of people. Michael store on. World Service dot com slash documentaries. Coming up in World Business Report What a time to try and win the u.s. U.k. Trade deal its President Trump arrives in a country wracked by its breaks it indecision we ask what concessions to firms want and what are the stumbling blocks with a president who seems to prefer the new tariffs to taking all one's away plus the monetizing Kenya the central bank takes on the money launderers That's all after the very latest world news b.b.c. News American Marshall Sudanese protesters have called for another general strike saying they're stopping all contact with the military leaders of the Sudanese professionals' Association made the announcement after security forces opened fire on protesters killing at least 12 people the United States embassy in Khartoum has said attacks against protesters must stop Egypt a key ally of the Sudanese military has a cold for car. About 800 women and children have begun leaving our whole camp in northern Syria that's how the families of Islamic state group fighters the Syrian women and their youngsters a big allowed to return to home towns in the Iraq a province President Trump has started a state visit to Britain by reigniting his spat with London's mayor city can the president called Mr Carr a stone cold loser after a scathing newspaper article by Mr Carr on the mess spokesman called the president's response childish Russia has dismissed President drums demand that its war planes stop bombing it Labe the rebel held Syrian province where they've been reports of many casualties the Kremlin said terrorists an adlib are launching unacceptable attacks on civilians and Russian troops a bus carrying government employees has been bombed in the Afghan capital Kabul at least 4 people have died it's the latest in a series of bomb blasts in Kabul on Sunday the targets included a bus for university students. The president of Mozambique leap in you see and the leader of the main opposition party Renamo. Have agreed to start demobilizing fighters and integrating them into the Army The move comes ahead of a definitive peace agreement which they pledged to sign in August the bodies of 5 climbers have been found on the slopes of the Himalayan mountain under Davie more than a week after a team of 8 lost contact with base camp an Indian Air Force plane spotted the 5 mountaineers b.b.c. News this is well business report from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Nigel Cassidy great to have your company on the day the President Trump stands with the queen on his long awaited and controversial state visit to the u.k. But in a moment we ask where does Britain stand over securing a free trade deal for its firms 2 years ago that was seen as the biggest post Breck's it prize of all now the movie deal is languishing with Britain still undecided on leaving or staying in Europe and the long list of sticking points from chlorine washed Chaikin to letting u.s. Firms do work for the u.s. U.k. National Health Service also in this edition a call challenge for the Kenyan central bank as it wages war on corrupt cartels by making them go to the bank and ask to swap out all their old bank notes plus the bane of every holiday and business trip lost luggage some useful thoughts for travelers in our latest workplace letter do send us your views you can get in touch via email or World of Business at b.b.c. Dot see you carry or you can use Facebook at facebook dot com slash b.b.c. Money. So no deal or deal when President Trump swept into the White House Seabrook lie Britain's long established special relationship with the Us was about to be crowned by a new bilateral free trade deal or to stop that would have bid to the brave new world after Bracks it well turn a half years later no trade deal so far and President Trump arrives here amid political chaos his host a prime minister leaves office in days and 12 conservative want to be a fighting for her job meanwhile 2 new stumbling blocks were merged to any trade deal the u.k. So far more relaxed attitude to working with the Chinese technology joint while away and America's desire for access to the u.k. National Health Service and of course the u.k. Still hasn't sorted out breaks it so join me as we discover what kind of trade deal businesses are still hoping for we get a sense of the world view in the White House that shaping the face of future trade deals. You know on the streets of central London where they watch the security barriers are being put out for Mr Trump's 3 day visit it's maybe all too easy to draw a parallel with the trade barriers that still rule British companies selling into America president from we know he's not staying with her majesty the queen at Buckingham Palace but that doesn't mean that getting about won't be disrupted for London business people like Alison Stewart Allan whose office is nearby on Buckingham Palace Road and you'd be pretty close to a lot of the preparations I certainly will and it's going to be absolute chaos I thinks we're having manhole covers overturned we're having security officers inspect local restaurants and shops it's going to definitely be quite a disruptive event now you advise firms and organizations on how to trade more effectively across borders politically into the United States so just set the scene for us if you will I think any new trade. Deal could be advantageous to the u.k. Especially around what makes this country famous So if you think about defense if you think about intellectual property entertainment there will be certain industry sectors where this country is a renowned and has fantastic assets and I think those will probably be ring fenced because of their historic success in the u.s. Because all this is happening at a time when the global financial markets are kind of telling Mr Trump to ease up on his trade stance with China with Mexico to now say you know what about negotiating styles and tactics What advice would you give to trade diplomats and I think the best way to negotiate with any other business person and frankly Mr Trump comes from a business background is to quantify the impact you know numbers speak loudly to Americans who are very quantitative business culture so I think by making extremely clear the impact of a trade deal that helps the u.k. And the United States I think that's how you get him and any American business person to listen. About how. The cost. Of all the president trumps 1st working a visit to London left a last impression that of 250000 protesters and a giant inflated and screaming Trump balloon wearing a nappy and clutching a mobile phone while the John baby blimp will fly over central London again I mean while the president has been shy to wade into the bricks it debacles intell Singur a skeptic Boris Johnson for the conservative leadership he's shown little sign of offering the u.k. Generous trade terms indeed his u.k. Ambassador Woody Johnson has just been raising further Dumond's. I think we're looking at all the components of the deal and trying to get everything lined up so one when the time comes we're ready to go but I think there's going to have to be some deal where you give the British people a choice and American products would come over and be allowed to come over Agriculture's extremely important the president and any president because agriculture in all 50 states but you give the British people a choice if they like it they can buy it if they don't want to they don't have to buy it even the e.u. Has taken a position on things like wanting to check out the American food supply is as safe as anything in Europe your national health care service the pride of the country and I remember you have a mostly in charge issue I think probably the entire economy you know a trade deal all things that are traded would be on the table. So without a deal in sight u.k. Firms like wells based 12 Sports have to sell into America without special treatment the chief executive Alex Lovins says his company has made the u.s. Its top export market for sports equipment we find it very u.s. The u.s. Customs on top products is a good place to start but fundamentally someone who has a profit from a snow and that sits on his 4 pm they can have it delivered in America the very next day so we can offer a service a one day delivery time so yeah the starting point is it's very posed if it's trading to the u.s. So how do you explain the enormous Angstrom concern about trade tariffs if you manage to sell successfully what's going on in well you know over the all stems on the debate with bricks it's you could have a will approach Donald Trump is economics driven president and you cannot you what you won't say is gun laws or more but in terms of the economy he's very straight forward so his interest is yes to protect u.s. Interests but he sees the u.k. As a natural ally clearly it be very easy to forge closest toys. The u.s. Because we work in harmony we're not a threat to them and we all remember the time of the Brits if we were told by Barack Obama we'd be last in the queue for a trade deal no one really believed and of the Donald Trump says will be 1st in the queue. For testers take issue with Mr Trump on many fronts in the Greek culture it's over American bombs to allow imports of cheaper chlorine wash chicken products County outlawed in the u. For beef sheep an Arab farmer minute barristers who chairs the U.K.'s National Farmers Union it's about food safety animal welfare and public trust Look I think of the moment the dialogue has been around food safety and of course no government no country wants to see unsafe food and so the coronation of chicken is a food safety issue and there is no problem with that at all what we want to talk about is is feed value is so high standards of animal welfare and environmental protection of which you know we've led Europe in that direction and feel very strongly about it and also if we had a u.s.-u.k. Trade deal that involved agriculture it would effectively mean bringing food into our country that will be illegal for our farmers to do here and I mean things like growth promoters m.b. Flood has been banned here since 1981 and I would say these are something that should be adopted globally in this isn't about protectionism this is we feel a chance to lead globally and get others to produce food to the same standards that we do if the u.k. Leaves the European Union and signs a trade deal with the us of some kind is it not inevitable that farmers in the u.k. Will have to accept compromises but it is not something that is president of the interview I'd be prepared to accept we don't want to see a downsizing in standards nor to consumers and why the cheaper food you know we have the 3rd most affordable food here in the u.k. Of any country in the world and so a race to the bottom on standards of animal welfare and environmental protection. What I believe feet disastrous end of the trail of British farming you know all of the situation with respect to bricks and the complexity and the problems but we have a very good trading relationship with the u.k. And that's just been strengthened further and we are going to actually be increasing it very substantially as it relates to trade with the United States that speaking about trade in February Mr Trump gave nothing away about possible concessions so to see what business is already partnering across the Atlantic want I turn to Emanuel Adam the director of trade policy for the British American Business Council I think this starts by saying that the u.k. U.s. Economic relationship is one of world's greatest economic as a source which is underlined by thousands of companies that trade and invest across the Atlantic every single day and to give you a couple of examples you have literally a British company and every single u.s. Congressional district and you have over 7500 u.s. Companies active in the United Kingdom employing over 1500000 people Fair enough we have not reached a trade deal yet and we are not in negotiations for free trade agreement but in the meantime both the u.s. And the government have done a lot to make it easier for you can u.s. Businesses to trade across the Atlantic to be an example so for example 1st of all we have seen that the u.k. And the u.s. Have tried to replace existing agreements that are currently existing between the u.s. And e.u. Or the e.u. Up just to make sure that there's no fracture and once the u.k. Has left and then the u.k. And the u.s. Have created a working group that looks into what they can do for example for small businesses in order to help them have greater access to both markets it seems a bit unlikely that the u.s. President is going to forge a new deal with a prime minister who is on her way out but just supposing a deal were be able to be done almost immediately what would your members like to see well in this case the good news is that traders are usually not negotiated by a prime minister or president there are teams behind it who have the task to do that for them if we were to see a traitor right now I think there would. The 2 things that the companies that we represent would be looking for one really looking into key sectors in both economies where we can align regulatory processes and standards rather it is appropriate and secondly we would urge both governments to look into Are there smart so called more and simple things that they could do to make it really easier on an everyday basis to trade in a rest across the Atlantic and sometimes that can even mean things like Global Entry x. Earth or having u.s. Citizens using ego it's in the in the u.k. It's more things like this that he would like government to look at over to be a fly on the wall when the state visit talk turns to trade David Henig is a former Department of trade negotiator a man familiar with such high level negotiations behind closed doors he's now u.k. Director for the e.c. IP think tank the expectations were high 2 years ago for us u.k. Trade deal I think that the impetus the momentum has gone out of them a little bit now we're seeing more the problems being discussed less about the opportunities and I think there's concerns on both sides that this may not happen it's very symbolic isn't it having a new trade deal with a country outside the European Union but in terms of the practicalities for businesses some of whom are already successfully doing business with America do we need one you know there's a few questions that let's just unpack that a little bit 1st of all there's a great trade relationship an investment relationship between the u.k. And the us there's a 1000000 people in the u.k. Go to work for us companies every day at a 1000000 in the us going to work for u.k. Companies there's a huge trade relationship as well as a little bit confused as to what the exact numbers are but for example we sell $7000000000.00 in cars in automotive parts to the us each year we sell at one half 1000000000 pounds worth of alcoholic drinks at a great trade relationship already can it get much bigger some. Questions as to how much a trade deal would help that certainly on the u.s. Side they think that there are ways to make it bigger such as selling us their agricultural produce but that's when you start running into so problems hence can this really be delivered without the famous issues of chlorinated chicken the big issue there beyond consumer acceptance of this is that if we accept u.s. Standards in terms of food then we differ from you stand there and it makes it more likely that we'll need to put in place checks between the u.k. And the e.u. And that includes on the island of Ireland which point it becomes problematic so in a sense is it pretty pointless to even take the discussion further until Britain's position you know out of Europe is clear my own view is there's a lot you can do without doing a free trade agreement a free trade agreement actually focuses on where you disagree and yes I think it's pretty pointless without getting the relationship 1st I think we should be focusing on the areas where we can take forward now and in fact we are doing we're talking about for example financial technologist a and e. Commerce and trade promotion all the things that we can do short of a free trade agreement so those are the things to be encouraged really from this day forward a new vision will govern our land it's going to be only America 1st. First by now the world is getting the message China and Mexico are feeling the force of almost daily new tariffs and all the talk suggests that the e.u. Is next so I asked Michael Ingram the chief investment strategist at w h Island to assess where Mr Trump is going with his global trade relations Well I think Trump certainly sees insistent rather old fashioned sleaze of influence he doesn't like multilateral organizations he doesn't like the i.m.f. He doesn't like the United Nations he doesn't like these big trade deals he likes the sort of platforms for the game where they're the biggest player and. At the moment the u.s. Is still the world's biggest economy although you know many there are many who costs aren't there that by 2030 that is going to be China would it be fair to say he's almost trying to weaponize America's financial far right yes indeed I mean America's window of opportunity to don't do so is closing you've got China growing very very rapidly it's forming trade links with other rising economies in Southeast Asia trade and finance you know critical leavers that the u.s. Can currently employ. This visit is set to be more pomp and circumstance and protests but about policy announcements right now Mr Trump looks more inclined just bring new tariff barriers rather than tear existing ones down he might surprise us but it all looks on hold until the u.k. Finally decides if it's in or out of you. To the financial markets now Michael Hewson we brought the Coldstream Guards in to introduce you today he's chief market analyst at c.m.c. Mark that's definitely a 1st neutral. Ok so the Footsie I think hit its low point of the day just an hour after the market opened Yes it did Miss pretty much been clearing all of that back I think largely helped by a slightly more robust u.s. Session. The u.s. Markets have opened higher I think this rebound does need to be put in the context of obviously the declines that we saw last week we are seeing some light buying coming in but I'm not prepared to call all the all clear on the moment simply because people are still looking to buy treasuries. And still. Looking to buy gold I think we're seeing a little bit of a rest pipe at the thing certainly necessarily mean we're in the clear we're talking a lot about Trump and trade overnight he tweeted the u.s. Would impose tariffs on Mexican imports in an anti immigration measure I mean here again lots of politics getting involved in a market so well that they're worrying how long this is going to go on for well I think this is the big thing I think what happened at the end of last week when he talks about imposing tariffs on Mexico was that it was completely ripping up the agreement the u.s. M.c.a. Which was the law is a Mr New Can had agreed with Mexico and Canada only a few weeks ago. And Mr Trump is essentially throwing grenades into that and basically said well actually what I want to do is already conflate trade with immigration which really is a completely separate topic and it's really given investors cause to question whether or not the u.s. President is a significantly loose cannon can they trust u.s. Negotiators to actually stand by their agreements unless without the president basically butting in and saying well actually hang on a minute I don't want to do that well certainly keeping the markets on their toes Michael Hewson thank you very much indeed for that chief market analyst at c.m.c. Markets as for the numbers the 100 index currently down point to one percent $7148.00 the Dow New Yorks down by slightly bigger margin point 3 percent to $24729.00 the pound rose about to 10 percent to $1.26 the euro stands at $1.12 u s cents. Now a new design for the banknotes that you use every day might not sound controversial but it certainly is in Kenya in Central East Africa new shilling denominated currency notes came in over the weekend and they're being challenged in court because they feature a statue of the country's 1st president German Kenyatta the constitution apparently has no Shouldn't feature an individual but it seems there's another reason why the change is popular in some quarters that's because anybody holding large quantities of the old notes may find the banks won't swap them out for the new ones Kenya is trying to get to grips with stashes of illegally obtained laundered cash Well the B.B.C.'s are Georgy go told me about this court action and its significance we had instances reported on local media where police raided certain houses and they found huge amounts of cash in their physical form millions sometimes even billions in a bedroom and now the central bank governor says that money was being used with a lot of laundering and corruption and a lot of handouts here and there and he has come out to say that anyone with 5000000 shillings in a bag of in cash must contact the central bank to get the new generation of course when you do that anyone who comes to you and says that they have 5000000 shillings in cash of course that invites the question on where did you get the money what are you doing with the money it's physical form so he says so that is ideally to curb that issue of money laundering that has been really a huge monster of Kenya's economy the rest of the people who have less than that amount of money can exchange their cash in any commercial banks around them does this change in situation by the Central Bank generally have people support is it understood that this is a necessary step to get a grip on the economy there's been a lot more positivity towards what this will do even some of the political activists that were against the current government they said this is a positive move by so between now and October can they will carry on the task of adopting. The new note but here's what some Kenyans within Central Nairobi actually think I think the introduction of a new currency will stop Russia and it will also stop people money. For drugs I think that's a really good move I don't think whether this thing with the law because it all depends if they give it to when you want to come up with some new current server noble idea on the right time because there is if there is any country the world where money laundering is very rampant it is good people are keeping billions of cañon money I don't think the be a problem with that we have that all the money oil then human so long as they can use it to do what we do with mine so is this court challenge really what's at the heart of this or is this actually a bit of a distraction of the grounds that the coal case was sort of robbers semi charge from the reality of trying to get grips with money laundering it's very practical almost every time we have something that has been moved by the president or the Central Bank it's always challenged in court I mean is the constitutional right to make sure that the citizens get right of reply and a lot more so these activists that do that for them the grounds in which we've seen this been taken to court violation of the section by including the Statue of the president lack of public participation and demonetize ng if we do go down that route where we say Ok all discussion has been printed and we need to remove and redo it with someone else's possibly face on the note which we had said earlier within the can encounter that we would not do that would be a very expensive process and at this moment when we are struggling with national debt and repayment of some of the loans from external parties that's not a route that we would want to go down saw they do hold water is a constitutional right but I think it is one of those processes that would take too long before anything actually happens much Georgia new Durango in Nairobi. Now with $35000000000.00 pieces of luggage carried by our airlines every year should we be surprised that $25000000.00 get lost or damaged when our regular correspondent have a MacGregor's reflecting now on what we can do to ensure that our luggage travels with a safely of what travelers could and indeed should or shouldn't pack who keep business trips standing at the package carousel after a long flight I'm always slightly anxious as I wait for my back to appear I am not alone Sita the member owned organization that provides i.t. Solutions to the ad transport industry said in a recent report that waiting at the package carousel can be a stressful point in the passenger's journey and there are a lot of passengers apparently 8 out of 10 of us check in on a gauge most of us travelling with one bank which amounted to about 4300000000 banks that were carried in 2018 only point 06 percent of these had some sort of mishap which is why I tried not to panic as I stood at the back of Carousel in of the yeah port and watched lots of other people's bags arrive sadly it turned out that on that occasion my bike was one of the 25000000 a year that didn't turn up in the right place at the right time or in the right condition that left me in one area with almost no toiletries and no Spanish because I was able to buy these things of course and I was refunded by the airline but it reminded me how critical it was to pack sensibly in my hand luggage for a business trip my meeting schedule started immediately on arrival and there was no time in the plan for side trips to the shops How could I have avoided this mishap one article I read quotes Gilbert ought of God Save the Points dot com a website dedicated to ad travel he suggests photograph as you pack so that you have an exact record of what's inside a ticket with a credit card the office baggage delay protection and watch like a hawk as labels are placed on your. I am make sure old ball could stick his have been removed. As a pack I bet he come back from one trip before I leave for another I'm not sure I have time to document the things I throw into my See case one thing I included when I went to Nigeria on that particular trip was a chocolate Easter egg given to me by my colleague is an early birthday present 2 days of sitting in a big gap or waiting for me to return from Lagos and collect it to that Easter egg absolutely no good at school I could also have Paxson key things into my hand luggage for instance enough torture is a make up to last for a few days I clean t. Shirt and some underwear as a woman travelling on business I need enough makeup to look presentable and enough basic torn interest to maintain a personal hygiene retain this is all very challenging given the restrictions on liquids in hand luggage let alone the aging of my body the cost of the technology to put a small chip into every luggage label has fallen according to Sita to about 3 pence a label this would not have been much help at the Asia where all lost luggage I notice is documented in an exercise book rather than scanned when I collected my bag I noticed the astonishing collection of luggage that no one had collected if you're not reunited with your bag after 90 days in most countries of the world what happens to it it gets sent to auction you might think about that the next time that you pack for notices trip you would be wise to explain valuables and as it turns out. That's heaven McGregor and if you ever notice that 1st piece of luggage comes around on the carousel never really seems to belong to anybody but I know it will Cassidy this has been the World Business Report Do join us on the program again. No on the b.b.c. World Service. Known as the little boy who lost everything a mark on him Scarface was shown on newspaper front pages around the world Iraq 30 years later we're doing a woman interrupts a live t.v. Report looking for her son a little boy called among Is she really his mother and is he her long lost son Omar a loon in the world at b.b.c. World Service dot com. And at b.b.c. World Service dot com witness history with me River here has been we explore a society that had a profound effect on your Between 8 and 11 centuries it wasn't until the 1917 that we understood more about the sophisticated culture of the Vikings this is the b.b.c. World Service the world's radio station. Hello welcome to us Chloe chilly with you live from the center of our b.b.c. News during throughout the day we've been receiving messages to our whatsapp phone from people in Sudan claiming to have witnessed security forces in the capital Khartoum beating and killing protesters well gunfire has been reported and at least 12 people thing killed and dozens injured according to medics will remind you what's happening in Sudan play you witness accounts and speak to our correspondents about what can be verified Plus new laws after the bounce welcome to Buckingham Palace and I think you can guess why we are hearing u.s. President Donald Trump he's on his 1st state visit to the u.k. Yes he was here last year but this is a formal invitation from Queen Elizabeth so the pomp and ceremony that's already well underway has only been enjoyed by 2 other former u.s. Presidents we're going to bring you the voices about why people are divided about this visit and also what's expected to happen next stay with me I am new here on the b.b.c. World Service when I last. Marion Marshall with the b.b.c. News the leaders of the protest movement in Sudan the Sudanese professional association so they're stopping all contact with the military and have called for a general strike they made the announcement after security forces opened fire on protesters killing at least 12 people and injuring dozens heavily armed troops in pick up trucks mounted with machine guns have been deployed across Khartoum Faria one of those caught up in the violence told the b.b.c. It was clear that the military were determined to crush the protests killing evil. People What does that mean to you they want to get rid of them so when they kill him they want their revolution in order to have a weapon it should the African Union has strongly condemned the violence and has called for an immediate transparent investigation there was also condemnation from the United States embassy in Khartoum Britain's ambassador to Sudan here fancy Deek told the b.b.c. It was a hugely worrying and negative development I think there's a fairly clear international consensus that this is an unacceptable acts they've also been of a clear consensus in the entire situation from the African Union even the Gulf states as well as Western countries that there needed to be a swift transition to civilian rule and that's what this whole process had been waiting for and we've been pressing and urging for this to happen as soon as possible because we're all conscious of the risks that would continue if there was an absence of an agreement the risk to stability and security we've seen those which play out in the streets of Khartoum today negotiations with the transitional military council have been taking place for weeks but the generals have been reluctant to allow a transfer of power to a civilian administration. About $800.00 women and children of the gun leaving a detention center in northern Syria tells the families of Islamic state group fighters that the 17 bosses have left the whole camp those on board are believed to be Syrian women and their youngsters who are being allowed to return to hometowns in nearby rocka province the transfer will ease pressure on the badly overcrowded detention facility the Mexican foreign minister Brad has warned that the terrorists President Trump has threatened to impose could make it more difficult to reduce the number of migrants passing through his country to reach the United States Barber plant Asha reports Mr Bernard was speaking at the start of a busy and crucial week in great detail he outlined all the ways that Mexico has been taking action to stem the tide of migrants over the past 5 months he claims that without these efforts an additional quarter 1000000 migrants could arrive at the u.s. Border this year but he said Mexico believed the only way to stop the flow was to improve economic conditions in the Central American countries from which they were coming he said Mr Trump's proposed tariffs and his decision to cancel aid to these countries could cause economic and financial instability which would reduce Mexico's capacity to deal with migration flows. Reporting You're listening to the latest world news from the b.b.c. . At the start of the u.s. President's 3 day state visit to Britain a router has erupted between Donald Trump and the mare of London City can on the flight over President Trump called Mr Khan a stone cold loser after a scathing newspaper article by Mr Carr the best spokesman called the president's response childish with the full formal state visit now underway the president has been greeted by Queen Elizabeth at Buckingham Palace and has been touring the 1000 year old Westminster Abbey our royal correspondent Jonny Diamond has been watching . The founder of raters marked the arrival of the president as Marine One saw it through the central London skies it landed in the gardens of Buckingham Palace and in bright sunshine the President and Mrs Trump stepped onto the Buckingham Palace lawn they were welcomed 1st by Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall and then more formally by the Queen in Green Park just next to the palace and the Tower of London a 41 gun salute rang out to mark the beginning of this state visit the bodies of 5 climbers have been found on the slopes of the Himalayan mountain Nunda Davey more than a week after a team of 8 lost contact with base camp an Indian Air Force plane which has been helping with the search spotted the 5 mountaineers they're thought to be part of an international team led by the British climber Martin Moran rescuers are considering how to retrieve the bodies from the treacherous terrain where helicopters cannot land there be no sightings of the other 3 a Japanese woman has launched a campaign urging the government to ban companies from forcing women to wear high heel shoes to work you mean Ishikawa an actress and writer has handed in a petition signed by nearly 20000 people the drive has been named coup 2 to mimic the me too movement it's also a play on 2 Japanese words meaning shoe and pain b.b.c. News Hello this is a us on the b.b.c. World Service Chloe Tilly with you in the.