Crystal's in the deejay's carry on suitcase the 56 year old is reported to have denied the allegation suggesting someone had likely slipped the drug into his the longings a much anticipated mixed martial arts fight in Las Vegas has ended in Bedlam after fights broke out inside and out of the ring the Russian heartbeat nor Mark a matter of defeated Ireland's Khana McGregor in the 4th round but then jumped over the cage and started brawling with his opponent support team a member of the Beeb's team climbed into the ring and punched McGregor The president of the organizers say happy but not been handed is lightweight title at a press conference had Beeb apologised but said he'd been provoked I know this is not my best side you know I'm here Mabyn and like I know understand how people can talk about I jump on the cager Now what about he talked about my religion you talk about my country you talk about my father he come to broken and he broke bass. People What about this why people talk about I jump over the cage I don't understand a passenger train has hit and killed 3 elephant cars in eastern Sri Lanka less than 3 weeks ago 2 elephant guards and their mother were killed in a similar crash and that's the latest b.b.c. News. I marked out and in the next hour of the b.b.c. World Service I'll be reporting on the impact of an event that is perhaps the most difficult to understand for those left behind death by suicide. It can be a painful and complex death to deal with because it triggers confusing emotions. Anger abandonment and. The will to mint trying to work out why someone you thought you knew that everyone would be better off without than. To suicide more than 4 years ago she spent a lot of time trying to imagine what may have been going through his mind. That. Understands. Remember our. Values. You. Pain suffering it does it for everyone. Understands the grief of those bereaved by suicide. And there are many. Hundreds of thousands of people worldwide take their own lives every year according to the World Health Organization and because data is difficult to gather in some areas of the world where suicide is to the true figures are likely to be much higher tragically it's also the 2nd leading cause of death among 15 to 29 year olds globally. British charity reports that in the u.k. Alone in 2015 more than 1600 people under 35 took their own lives. 100 of these were boys and men in this program people in Britain and in the United States who have lost a family member this way people like Angeles a martyr a mother of 2 sons from northern England who lost her partner to suicide when he was aged just 32. One of the worst times for me was when Benjamin the youngest one was in the school play and I wished so hard that Mark was sitting next to me and it was ironic that the seat next to me was actually empty and I just remember becoming very very angry not at him but at the situation at the fact that this little boy was on the stage singing his heart out and his father who he was probably singing for wasn't there to see it and the anger that I felt that stayed with me for a long time suicide has been dubbed a complicated grief it arouses strong emotions that can last for years and those left behind the statistically more likely also to take their own lives so in this program Ah be asking experts what can be done to help those affected deal with such a painful loss experts like Professor Keith Horton consultant psychiatry 1st and director of the Oxford center for suicide research part of the University of Oxford in the u.k. For over 40 years Keith Horton has been looking at the global causes of suicide unsolved harm as well as the effects they have had on those left behind shame guilt isolation often people become relatively isolated after experiencing a suicide of a family member because they. I don't want to talk to other people about in the sense to feel they want to admit to other people about it and other people may not want to talk to them other people find it extremely difficult it feels like a very brutal form of rejection doesn't it that you the person being left behind weren't important and good enough for me to make the decision that I should hang around long enough yeah indeed I mean which is entirely understandable I mean many people who die by suicide have been depressed and often very severely depressed and we know that people's thinking patterns in states of depression become very distorted and I think understanding how depression can influence a person's thinking patterns such that they see things through. Extremely dark glasses that I think can be helpful to try and understand there may have been a state of mind which is very different to the person's state of mind when they were well I feel in making this program about our families are affected by suicide that I have to come clean with you the listener I'm not just doing this as a conventional radio reporter or presenter I'm also as the terminology has it a survivor of suicide 17 years ago my elder brother Chris took his own life age 46 when he was on a business trip to Edinburgh it fell to me to travel to Scotland to identify him and bring back his belongings to my parents' home in Manchester it transpired he'd been dealing with clinical depression for some months and had already made one unsuccessful attempt on his life. We were a Catholic family my mother and father expressed the desire not to share this with the rest of the wider family and the public all the circumstances of his death so as a family we didn't tell people how he died nor did we really discuss it much amongst ourselves my parents a long since gone from this world and I feel it's no right to discuss what happened openly precisely because it's such it's abuse subject and I don't think anyone's interests are really well served in bottling it up it only adds to the boot. Across the whole world someone will take their own life once every 40 seconds and their families the world over who are affected but in looking into this story more closely there's one American city that is especially caught my attention that's Chicago the so-called Windy City here on the shores of Lake Michigan I'm about to meet 2 families with very contrasting stories of survival. And I mock you for 3 years I picked up in the sleepy western suburb of Downers Grove to meet a man called Albert she. Father age 58 took his own life 3 months after a debilitating stroke that left in depressed and frustrated. Was only 25 at the time and that's not going on to write what has become a classic textbook for survive this the book's called grieving the suicide this is my father at his Ph d. Graduation in 1976 and so he is in his Ph d. Robes and I am a 3 year old kid standing next to him leaning my head alongside him I treasure these photos because I don't have very many photos of us at that age my parents are from Taiwan and my dad was an engineer was the depression that he suffered was that linked to the rules of things that he could do which he was no longer able to do that was certainly part of it he was unable to work and he was of a generation and temperament that now a lot of his identity did come from his work and one other Asian dynamic that is often the case is shame and in Asian context shame based context you don't talk about things like depression you don't talk about things like mental illness or struggles in general because that would bring shame upon your family and then the irony afterwards is that the families left behind then themselves also feel shame to this book that the phone call that you go because of. It was a Thursday morning before work was surprised who would be calling us at this early in the morning on my work day and when I picked up the phone I heard on earthly how willing wailing noises and I didn't know who it was it's like what is this Who is this and it was my mother and she said daddy killed himself daddy kill himself and it didn't register at 1st daddy daddy who my daddy and she just kept on crying and then there was a neighbor who was with her that came on the phone and explained a few things to me and it was absolutely devastating. Do you like to introduce the person who's sitting next to you on the sofa my wife Ellen. Very much took charge or as I felt immobilized and Ellen came alongside and helped me figure out what to do in some ways the hardest thing for me was not knowing for sure how he was we are how I could help and I knew at the time he had a difficult time sleeping but I often wasn't sure what I could do to offer comfort and so I would just try to take his cues as to what would be most helpful to him there were times we sort of compensated with activity and so especially when we were with my mom in Minnesota you know we would clean the refrigerator we tidy it up things around the house all the busy details surrounding the funeral and logistics I call them displacement services and when my brother took his own life I'd been the person who had to go and identify his body and I had to break this news to my parents and they would not stay still they were shopping they were doing the garden they were inventing every reason because they knew I wanted to sit down with them. And talked to them about this event but they sense that was coming and they got so busy that houses that have been so clean right I remember finding ways to help pick up around the house but then naturally as we were doing these things finding things that would remind us of his dad or we would learn something more about his that if he found family pictures or the books that he was reading or the clarinet that he was teaching himself how to play it was a practice of remembrance in many ways as we were looking at the mementos of my father's life to remember the things he had done who he had been because I think when a suicide happens we're mostly focusing on the immediacy of the death of the horrible way that that the life ended so it was good to take a step back and to remember my dad's larger life and that his story is not just in the method of how he died who judges a book by the last paragraph in a 290 page novel your employer is didn't contribute flowers the funeral they came it was something rather more interesting as a gesture of support for you they sent us a tree and we were a little bemused at that saying a tree what would we do with a tree and in doors kind of tree in a pot but we really appreciated it and that it continued to live it wasn't cut flowers I would dry off and die but it was a tree that had ongoing life in that was a message that life does go on and the trees still alive and we're grateful seaward through the always come up talking about survivors and you write about the length of the book guilt and anger with those prominent few. Those were very very present I think a suicide is different than other deaths if somebody dies of cancer you can blame the cancer cells if someone dies of cards and you can blame drunk driver or if our loved one had been murdered you could grieve the loved one by rail against the murder but in this case the loved one is the murderer and so we grieve them and rail against them and at the same time and we feel abandoned feel angry and then we feel guilty and ashamed of how can I feel this negative thing about this loved one . It's a few hours now since I left his wife Elin and I'm back on the shores of Lake Michigan in these will seem to be almost all temperatures amidst all the ice and while this is a beautiful hypnotically in chancing view of Chicago's downs on right in front of me I've been pondering something he said in the book of his he said that being a suicide survivors a bit like belonging to a secret society that no one really wanted to be a member of. I'm about to encounter yet more members of the so-called secret society I mean Bronzeville district south of Chicago's downtown to meet the family of Joshua marks George was just 26 years old when he took his own life over 4 years ago after struggling with a series of mental health issues and today I've come to talk to his mother Paulette Dana his 33 year old sister and his youngest sister Danielle he was just a mere 8 years old when all this happened. What mostly I remember is sitting on my grandma's bed and then my mom was sitting down crying and so is my sister and my mom was trying to sell me something but she couldn't and then my sister to tell me what happened and so my mare's from them was like I didn't cry for a good minute because at 1st I couldn't really understand it I was like how is he dead when you had to break the news on the day Paul that hears Danielle he was 8 coming out on 9th birthday I must have been so hard finding the words to tell her what had happened well she was angry with me. Because she told me I didn't tell her right away and those I couldn't even tell her right away at it know how to tell her it I found Shasta about 620 pm I found him and you know I had a long time just me and him I was in an alley where found him my cousin took me back home for mom Danielle was angry at me for not saw her directly. I don't know what it was but it was kind of like if she couldn't tell me then I cannot really express how I felt to her because she wouldn't express the same towards me and so I kind of got that vibe when we were like sitting together and I would cry on her shoulder but she wouldn't cry back because I didn't want to cry in front of you I just sat there have my own private moment and not menu seen in a certain state. Where going up stairs sounds like they're sort of what I called my t.v. Slash and they had guests room. Sometimes craft world. So well at all those what we have here. This is Josh was heard here Dana has the same identical. And I thought order of events that are like the curse the heart with his name engraved on it. It was it was a photo here of him just different sort of slightly falling down let me just pick it up oh yeah. That's the goofy photo this is a typical Josh Holloway with his friend Tori and there he's dressed like a pirate assistance one that makes me happy because I just look at him of like you know this is just playing games as can he so I was kind of like playing 5 games with me tricks on me with the experience you've had what would you say to families who've never really talked about this or never really dealt with the suicide in the family what what advice would you give them. You need to talk about it you need to seek help he had to find a beauty in your as and I keep trying to seek the beauty in the ashes and when I see that beauty much as just I see the blessings that I have I had . To have a trout by Josh but shout who really growing up in the city of Chicago beat all the arts when you hear about young black men coming from Chicago is usually homicide violence drug dealing with incarceration they don't graduate from high school or go to college I never had a problem with Josh he graduate from high school who went to college graduated single lot with honors one report Paula suggested that Josh is death was somehow symptomatic of a general problem of suicide among young black American men are No one thing about the African-American community they don't talk about it and when I became a public about his mental health issues and the issue of suicide really people plot we were speaking about a company probably family friends who 38 he said he said I'm glad to talk about it because by peer it's totally We should never speak about it to something we don't talk about the family or campaigning to promote awareness of mental ill health and to offer support for those who are suffering with a foundation launched in Joshua's name is nearly 4 and a half years since Josh's death and I asked Dana the older of the 2 sisters how she's feeling no compared with the immediate aftermath of his suicide it's different kind of put my feelings on the back burner to be supportive of my mom to be there for my sister and everybody took me until I would say 2017 to even start identifying the fellas that I had in losing my brother so much of it was. Br pressed and there was a that I didn't recognize that I lost him it was hard for me to let go because it was such a part of my life he's my 1st best friend at that point I hit a crossroad where I needed therapy myself just to explore those villains and explore those emotions and so I've started to find some comfort in the grieving process and some outlet in the grieving process with go to therapy myself and sitting down and talking about it because I didn't talk about it for so long Dana Mogs listening to her experience talking to others when you've lost a loved one to suicide appears to be of paramount importance this was echoed also to the b.b.c. By she he offered a simple piece of advice don't tell yourself apart asking why a very common thing for grievers after suicide is why did this happen could I have done something to prevent it why didn't I see it coming and we can answer those questions on a couple levels we can understand mental illness and depression better and realize that there are psychological and physiological factors that contribute to suicide but on the other hand. There often are no answers at all and only about one in 4 suicides leaves behind a suicide note and even that may not give a accurate sense of the person's state of mind an analogy that I have found helpful is that if you break your leg and you go to the doctor and say why did this happen and the doctor says well you were running and you tripped and you hit your bone at this angle and it fracture the bone and that's why you've broken leg and he gives you the explanation but then walks away and doesn't set the bone that's not helpful what we need is not just an explanation of why did this happen we need the doctor to heal us and so that's really what's going on once people are asking the why questions we assume that asking the why questions will give us comfort but the answers don't we just need somebody to come alongside us and attend to our broken hearts for both ends Dana it's very important to make it clear to anyone who's considering suicide just how devastating this would be for those left behind Here's what Dana says she would impress on them I know that the voices in the pain it seems heavy it seems unbearable to carry and that you would doing a service to everyone else and says you know making it easy for them making it easy for yourself but now actuality Remember that are paid doesn't go away. And the people closest to you will always doubt you appreciate and love you and the media pain suffering ends for you it doesn't and for everyone else is just transfer. I leave the bustling city of Chicago with abiding memories of gettable encounters with his wife Allan and also members of Joshua Marx's family very different stories of loss but in both cases individuals who have not been afraid to weep to reach out to others and to talk about it. So what I'm taking away from my trip to Chicago is the inside the suffering in silence. Much harder. To come after the. Documentary. Can impact on young children. Down. To after suicide BUSY. If you've been affected by anything you've heard in this program it's important to talk to someone about it and get support talking can help to see a way through things whether this is with a family member friends a doctor or a support organization. Now in the b.b.c. World Service the recipe for the perfect food chain is very very simple and is so absolutely wonderful throw in some shells had memories there's no greater beginning I think because my pure journey than watching mom's face. At a sprinkling of pop star chef it's a new love I've been married for a very long time to music and this is like food is a new relationship that makes in some controversy mistakes were made decades ago with the introduction of Genetic Technologies in plant production with animal production we're going to have to have conversations with the public and finish off with some passion you can start dialogue food can connect people I love it the economics Sonny and cultural food when you leave this recipient from hundreds of pews maybe it's something you're missing it starts your sister's roots the food chain at b.b.c. World Service dot com. I marked out and after the news all be hearing more about what it means to lose a loved one to suicide all the meeting Rosie he was 16 when her father took his life he is missed all the major milestones in my life right down to those exams I was doing I came top with another girl and of course he wasn't there to experience that I will meet those who work with youngsters to help heal the trauma that's all in after suicide from the b.b.c. World Service b.b.c. News Brazilians are going to the polls in the most polarized election in decades the leading presidential contender the rightwing candid giant of both an auto has vowed to talk to crime and reduce record high murder rates if he doesn't get more than half of the vote he's likely to face the candidate for the Workers' Party from under one done in a runoff at the end of October. A top official in Turkey's ruling party says that the authorities have concrete evidence for their assertion that a well known Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul the deputy chairman of the parties of the case would not go unsolved Saudi officials have called the accusation baseless prisoners are to detention center in South Sudan's capital Juba have staged a riot seizing weapons from a store the detainees are demanding that President Salva Kiir honors his recent pledge to release political prisoners a senior Vatican official has denounced a Roman Catholic archbishop for making what he said was a monstrous accusation that Pope Francis had been complicit in covering up allegations of sexual abuse the Canadian Cardinal Mark when it said Archbishop Carlo Maria began as allegations where a political stunt devoid of real foundation the u.s. Secretary of state might compare who has arrived in South Korea after visiting Pyongyang where he met the North Korean leader Kim Jong un he described his trip to Pyongyang as good one of the most hyped mixed martial arts contests in the history of this boat has ended in mayhem with a mass brawl breaking out inside and outside the octagon the Russian champion can be nor Michael Meadows defeated Ireland's Khana McGregor in Las Vegas then vaulted out of the cage to confront McGregor's team the Irishman was attacked in the Mallee that ensued the winners payment is being withheld pending an investigation. This is the b.b.c. World Service and I marked out I've been listening to how people deal with the devastating impact of suicide and what it means to lose someone in this way. In part 2 of this program on the meeting a woman who's been in the front line of suicide prevention and helping comfort bereaved family members and I'll be looking specifically at how children are affected when a person takes their own life it's like a huge stone into a pond the aftereffects can ripple out with for a long time. It's not just family members who have to deal with those who take their own lives every day the emergency services and so hundreds of calls related to scenes where people are thought to be at the risk of suicide I'm in the south of England that's an ambulance unit with a 27 year old paramedic Alice not her real name. Who even a target of the younger age is gaining considerable experience of dealing with suicide and its aftermath. Working and pirates and we see people died and most of the time that's because of an illness sometimes an injury when someone has chosen to stay there and why it can be particularly hard to take now a that they could have had their life ahead of them and it's hard not to wonder what led them to that situation sometimes people can seem very much like you would like someone that you know you think what could have been done to help them and I think a lot of the tiny feel deeply sad for the people who are left behind. But the depression and mental ill health that is often the trigger is something that can affect anyone even individuals who spend their lives saving the lives of others this is something Alice found out when she was called to one particular incident I knew that I was attending someone hey you hurt taken out in life that I wasn't aware that when I arrived at the someone I was biking with he was following emotions so this is what I mean went through your mind when you discovered the urgency of the person completely horrified thinking very much to myself you just have to keep going bias and my brain I think all this just trying to put the stops on things wanting to freeze whilst trying at the same time to process in my head that this was real life that this felt like a nightmare that the scene of a suicide when you've got family members in distress if they say what do I do now. One advise to give them quite often I say to them you don't need to do anything right now we will if we can make the McCafferty try and get them to sit down and to process the information because having been in that situation I can remember it feels like a strange warped dream they will often say things like that I've done something to stop what's happened but there are times when you can intervene but that saying to someone afterwards that something could have been done isn't helpful they need reassuring and I will normally say there are people who can talk to and that life actually won't be a surrender says it is in this moment and I genuinely think at that time that I believe you because why were they because they're having the worst day of their life but I say that in the hope that when they look back on it they will think actually that was right and that they might be able to help someone else but that one day someone who has been working to help others in the aftermath of that devastating one day on which a loved one takes their life is only the smarter for Merseyside in the u.k. Her partner Mark ended his life in 2003 at the age of 32. As we've discovered on one of the suicide from the b.b.c. World Service finding the words to say after such a devastating event can exert a huge toll but especially when it's apparent this is precisely what faced Angela when she farm og I just remember putting the key in the Dewan it was as I opened the front door there I found him and and the children were in the car and I could hear them behind me because the little one he was 3 was holding on to his seatbelt so my 13 year old could Nathan and they were laughing and you know I could hear it happening but in front of me I could see Mark in I could see that he wasn't alive and so it was very surreal but in those seconds and they must have been split seconds I closed the front door behind me and I actually shouted back to Alexey my oldest go next door when you look back at the situation I think you say thank you for this moment and one of the things I always say thank you for is the fact that my children didn't see anything. Really interesting thing that you said I think in one interview was that after a while you just gave up on the why question how we were able to put it on side and just let it go. The morning after Mark died my 3 year old came downstairs and asked me face breakfast and every morning after that he came downstairs and he asked me for his breakfast and what I realized was that this enormous thing that happened but our life carried on and about 4 years after Mark died I realize I was still waking up at 4 o'clock in the morning I was still asking myself the questions if I'd have driven faster would I have found him could I have saved him but actually I was never going to get those answers there was no note it's so rare that there's a note and so I had to give him ownership of what he'd done because if he did chosen to speak to me about it which he didn't or anybody else about it which to my knowledge he didn't I think somebody may have been able to help him but I couldn't change what happened and I had to except when Angela spoke to this b.b.c. Programme about those endless why questions it really struck a chord something my brother has said to my mother shortly before he died has been playing on my mind now for more than 17 years when I sat down with Professor Keith Naughton from Oxford center for suicide research it was a chance to get some answers he'd had a telephone conversation with her something like half an hour prior to the itself and she reports him saying world you know we'll talk next week on the phone. And so subsequently she felt that somehow she'd been duped or deceived people often say things like he or she was planning their holiday or planning Christmas and it's something we don't entirely understand this jus mental state if you like that one can have one part of one's mind which is going down the dark path towards suicide and yet be continuing to think about much more positive hopeful things why a man more prone to take their own lives and women well this is a much debated issue the other aspect to consider is the fact that fatal self harm or attempted suicide if you like is much more common in women than in men it's got to do with when men think about suicidal self harm they think about it in relation to death whereas for women it may have another purpose such as blotting things out temporarily escaping from a situation may be more of a form of communication is it to do with the fact that men are more familiar with certain methods of suicide demand technical skills or or strength and therefore more dangerous then more likely to die by suicide has it to do with males having greater levels of aggression and when they get turned in would it's much more likely to result in tensions die I mean it's very much debated and it's true in most all societies there are some where it's not so true such as in India and China where levels of suicide have been higher in females and in males or at least are very similar the levels of suicide that's probably got something to do with access to methods which are readily available to women in those societies would it be wrong to think that only people who have mental health issues of vulnerable to suicide or can we broaden this to talk about p. . Bill in low income categories people who are refugees discriminated against I think is absolutely crucial life experiences which is abuse separations being abandoned and so on and so forth which may all affect a person's vulnerability recent life stresses break up the relationship loss of job access to means of suicide we know is an important factor both in contributing to people's thinking about suicidal behavior but also the danger of what's available may influence the outcome but I don't think it's helpful to ever think that suicide is inevitable often the period during which someone is particularly a risk of suicide is quite short it's relatively uncommon for people to be thinking about suicide over a very long period of time so there are small windows open and close Exactly yeah exactly and so what can be done if you find someone in one of those windows of opportunity where there's a chance that prevent someone taking their own life I asked paramedic Alice what she says if she's called to an attempted suicide if we've got someone who is saying My life isn't like living anymore I don't know that life but what I do try say to them is and this is because it's true that I've met lots of people who have felt like their I haven't just met patients that I've had friends family members colleagues that they got better it wasn't easy that it wasn't straightforward. That it's a step by step process and that you can have that feeling happy again the words of Alice the paramedic who's learned the art of choosing words carefully and sensitively and that's not always easy in making this program I've purposely steered clear of the term committing suicide in case it's like into a crime it's now no longer against the law in many countries of the world and people who work in this field are also advised to steer clear of talking about the manner of suicide attempts in case it encourages thoughts of self harm. To try and ensure people don't feel totally alone with their suicidal feelings until ACIM orders build on our own painful experience of loss to pioneer a new campaign for suicide prevention she's now working with 0 suicide Alliance a group of charities in the u.k. . It's not 15 years since Angela's partner Mark took his own life did she I wanted to feel angry with him about what happened one of the worst times for me was when Benjamin the youngest one was in the school play and I wished so hard that Mark was sitting next to me and it was ironic that the seat next to me was actually empty and I just remember becoming very very angry not to take him but at the situation at the fact that they still itll boy he was on the stage singing his heart out and his father who he was probably singing for wasn't there to see it and the anger that I felt that stayed with me for a long time you had 3 boys aged 3 and 13 what language did you use with them did you have to deal with them separately given their age differences or do you talk to them together I mean I can't begin to think how difficult that must have been those conversations with some of the most difficult conversations I've ever had but this is why I will always be grateful to the ambulance service who attended that night and in the chaos Imus to fainted at some point because they took me to the back of the ambulance it was outside the house and what they were doing in the ambulance was checking my blood pressure what my 13 year old thought he was standing at the back of the ambulance was that his dad was in the back of that and 7 x. He came into the cordon and tame into the back of the ambulance and what that gave me was a moment of calm in a chaotic situation of blue lights and strange isn't just gave me time to say to him Do you understand what's happened and he said yes and he said it's Dad isn't it and I said yes d.n.a. That he's died and he said yes and it will we're going to talk about. This late about I just needed you to know the same information I know right now but I just need to know that you're Ok And he just looked at me with his enormous eyes and we just not hit each other but what that gave us was the foundation for our relationship moving forward with Benjamin he was when he was about 5 never forget he was playing on the floor in the kitchen and he said to me instead of why isn't daddy here and I explained that lots of times I talked about Daddy's mind made him think that he shouldn't be here anymore and his question changed from why did daddy die to how did Eddie die and that's when I had to take a big deep breath and I was washing dishes at the time and I said and what will happen if you can't breathe anymore and he said well go to heaven and I said well that's what daddy did and he never ever asked me again because it was almost like he was ready you know I am a great believer in if a child asks the question they're ready to hear the answer age appropriately but they're ready they're asking for a reason and I'd long stopped washing the dishes my hands were just in the in the sink but so were my tears at that point because I couldn't look at him the care and deafness with words you need as a parent when talking about this with children is absolutely paramount Rosie from London was only 16 years old when her father took his own life it was my final day at school before I went on study leave ahead of some important exams lots of fun we were all wearing our school shirts and getting them signed by. By our friends and teachers writing notes in your book wishing you good luck so I remember being on quite a high really and coming home from school in the afternoon and my mom came home and she was going to be picking up my siblings from school and I remember her coming in and she seemed strange in like there was something wrong and she just said don't go out and need to talk to you when I come back so she went to the school and picked up my brothers and sisters. I came home and she and my mom's partner my mom and dad had split up some years ago satirists down and her partner told us that my dad had taken his own life and I'm really grateful for that I think that they were honest in that way with us as difficult and shocking as it was I don't really remember much in terms of exactly what was said it's more the feelings that I remember and the overwhelming feeling I had that day was a sense of numbness also a sense of unreality nothing really seemed real I just remember that weekend and then the following week trying to sort of carry on as normal and then I had an exam on the Monday which I did I did go to school and I did sit down exam came to know how your peers at school dealt with it I remember registration before going into our exams and. My teacher told the class I go to the bathroom and I remember my friends coming to town to see if I was Ok so they were supportive but I think they did struggle with knowing what to say. I've come to Wigan in the northwest of England to the sunshine House Community Center to find out more about Winston's Wish this is a charity set up in 1992 to support review young sisters Rebecca Lawson is the area manager what particular issues I wanted to know confront the child who has to face up to the knowledge that a cherished parent has taken their own life very frequently without word or warning . A lot of particular young children will not understand the permanence of death on lot of experience to death in their family say it's suicide it's particularly complex because not only have children got to get their heads fanned what death means and the pain and nature of somebody not coming back but also trying to piece together why somebody they love very much has chosen that path because sometimes children and older young people can't find the words say was this my fault and was I not enough for that person and they need that reassurance almost constantly that it was not about them not being enough and they were not to blame specific things to actually go through with them and talk to them about. We don't launch straight into talking about the story of what happened although it's a really crucial part of the therapeutic where it's important to take time to build a relationship and what they like to do and what makes them happy what gives them positive feelings and actually in the case of suicide theory mint and the important work that we might do around prevention of children having mental health problems themselves is giving that very strong message that even following afraid difficult traumatic death in the family children young people need to be allowed to feel positive hopeful feeling so will do a lot of work around expressing feelings but also children young people really fear that they're going to forget that person so I do everything we can to make those memories stay so for a simple things like asking a child about what the person was lying What did they like to eat what were they always watching on television what music did they listen to. And there's a song that's quite close to my heart actually that reminds me of my dad. Principally because it was played at the funeral but it really just sums up him as a person and that's Pink Floyd Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Rosie music and memory a really important. When I hear that song it actually makes me feel. Quite happy and woman inside because it's just a way to kind of connect with him really I also find that when I'm outdoors particularly going for walks in the u.k. That really reminds me of my dad he would take me on long walks in the countryside and when I'm in nature I find it's a way that I feel close to him. And of course statistically even die a survivors are you know the figures we're much more likely than people who have not been affected by suicide in the family to take our own lives and. Does. Feel like bit of a cloud over your head or do you think you've moved beyond that I Major there are there are times when I maybe get a bit low and question you know what was the point of life and what you know how do we create meaning within our lives so I've also been. Determined to make sure that I reach out and talk to people when I'm not feeling in a good place and something that I still grapple with today is losing my dad is quite a formative period in your life in your through the teenage years it's taken away a sort of sense of safety and certainty about the world Rosie says she found some of that meaning she craved by working for the u.k. Charity the Samaritans which provides a telephone helpline for people who may be suicidal or going through difficult times but for under the smarter the heightened risk of suicide that faces son's remains one of her biggest concerns as the mother of 2 boys whose father took his own life it's been the hardest part of Mark's legacy to deal with because it's something that I know that he would never ever have wanted and again it information isn't it I know that information now I know that my children and now in a high risk group he would never ever have known that for me is a constant concern because both of my children need to be able to protect themselves watch their mental health talk openly and honestly I was waiting for the day that alexy said to me you know that I could help and one day he said to me moment actually there is something you can do it yeah anything you know I was waiting I had the checkbook ready I had the you know all the helplines ready and he said you can stop asking me now and I said really and he said I promise you I promise you that if there's ever anything that I need to talk about you will be the 1st person I can too. Such a contrast to what happened to me when we lost Chris my brother in the year 2000 he was 46 and we didn't discuss as a family and it's been my regret that I've never been able to get the feelings to grieve for my brother but also I felt guilty that I didn't give my mother a chance to talk about it with me member the day of his funeral my mother just putting a hand on his body in the coffin and saying you know Goodbye son. And it was really difficult. But. I wanted her to have a chance to say what she felt and it's just such a relief recently to find out that in fact she did talk about it with a mutual friend but I've only discovered that since I began to research making this program but what you have with your sons is exactly the relationship I once had with my mother you know I think describing suicide believe it is complex grief is a really accurate way to describe it because it's not linear I could feel the whole gamut of emotions within about 10 minutes and I think that when I went to my 1st support grief I realized that meeting with the people believed by suicide gave me an insight into this world that I was now in what we all thought is light when you went to the 1st meeting when you opened the door and saw all those people and Aly turned back about 15 times probably I was hoping that I couldn't find a parking space I was hopin that I'd got the day wrong because it's a group that none of us want to be part of had a cup of tea man before I could worry about anything else and it wasn't what I thought it was going to be it was actually a group of people who were being really honest with each of them who had been in my situation and I had to tell you many things that I wanted to ask them in so many things that I wanted to talk about that I couldn't wait for the groups to come quick and I never expected to choke up like that talking about my brother 18 years on and it just goes to show that that we do still a long way from being healed survivors of suicide will tell you that it's a wound but never totally goes away but with a chance to talk openly the pain can subside it can be easier to live with in my own case I feel that in meetings of I was on this journey I've entered that secret society that she talked about and I feel all the better for it let's leave the final word to Rosie. Probably the thing that I find the hardest to deal with is the fact that he is missed all the major milestones in my life right down to those exams I was doing when I was 16 I did quite well I came top with another girl and of course he wasn't there to experience the friends' weddings I can find quite difficult being walked down the aisle by their dad I think it's quite important to give a message of hope to people as well and whilst I absolutely would give anything to change my situation and have my dad here today losing my dad is such a young age and in this way has given me an appreciation of life and it's made me value my relationships that much more it does get easier you don't get over this experience but you find a way to carry on living your life if you've been affected by anything you've heard in this program it's important to talk to someone about it and get support talking can help to see a way through things whether this is with a family member friends adult or a support organization. You've been listening to after suicide with me marked out for the b.b.c. World Service the program was produced by c.t.v. C. This is the b.b.c. World Service keeping you up to date with world events throughout the day from the hearts of the b.b.c. This is the newsroom our team of journalists bring you the top stories of the moment an eyewitness account of that at least 13 x. . Shouting out out residents hundreds of thousands of people displaced many of them have been killed 30 minute window on the wild the news room every day on the b.b.c. World Service. And in our world picked up with Harriet's Gilbert who'd been reading an internationally bestselling novel it told the story of one woman's life in a number of different versions between gaging thought provoking read with the title life after life here to answer your questions it's multiple prize when you put a shoulder into this is the b.b.c. World Service the world's media station. Welcome to News Hour from the b.b.c. World Service with me at least the 2nd in London and Jim Franks in Rio de Janeiro here in Brazil people have just started voting they just started walking past me into this polling station in the most contentious the most divisive election in decades just the far right front runner Shi'a have what it takes to become president Turkey accuses Saudi Arabia of murdering the Saudi dissident journalist Jamal Kushal heat inside the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul a charge Saudi officials deny and the Venezuelan singer who went home to perform for her fans it was very touching her very touching it was like the 1st 30 minutes just wanting to cry so it's been one of the most beautiful conjurers I've had in my life all that and more after the World News. B.b.c. News with Sue Montgomery Brazilians are going to the polls in the most polarized election in decades they're choosing a new president members of the lower house of Congress and a 3rd of Senate members join here both in our own a far right politician is expected to win the presidential vote from Sao Paolo Kitty Watson people around gree and fearful about the future tribals in ourselves himself as a clean politician who wants to get tough on crime for those fed up with corrupt politics and growing violent he's the perfect candidate but he's also infamous for his sexist homophobic and racist comments his rival Fernando her dad is Mr Paulson or is political opposite he took over as the candidate of the Workers' Party from Lula da Silva who's currently in prison for corruption a top official in Turkey's ruling party says that the authorities have concrete evidence for their assertion that a well known Saudi dissident journalist Jamal has Shoghi was killed inside.