That's the nation's to b.b.c. News. Hello and welcome along to the arts hour on the b.b.c. World Service with me Mickey they d. 60 minutes of the best global arts and culture conversation from across the b.b.c. On today's show in a moment actor Bill Murray sting speaks there's a German word for that sings feel but that's not much either pop princess Miley Cyrus says she doesn't care what people think about her anymore they reckon she does anyway at least she's off that wrecking ball acclaimed British director Paul Greengrass tells us how the Bourne films captured the political like guys you know I think if you want to understand something of what happened in Britain in America or in the West in the early years of the 2000. The fear of paranoia I think all movies give you a pretty good sense of that in a popcorn commercial what we hear from the creative film do you know Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman they just who've written the Kingsmen sequel and they talk about creating a female villain the founder of the u.k. Is very dog Film Festival Elliot growth is sure that we are but your reality is the next big thing the film and we hear from British singer songwriter Emily Sunday that I was Gambian roots and to discuss all that is my 2 guests today South African film editor Meghan Gill joins us from our Johannesburg studio she's caught amazingly these like in the sky you know the drone film with Helen Mirren the top seat which won an Oscar and we'll find out more when I speak to her specifically about her work later and here with me in our London studio we welcome back film critic Tara Judah Well hello to both of you and I mentioned that later in the show we'll be hearing about creating a female villain so let me ask you both do you have a favorite villain Tara you 1st yeah absolutely For me it's Kathy Bates as Annie Wilkes in misery no you're not going to win. This look at my scripts they're mine is Kathy Bates from misery no way the adaptation of the Stephen King story remember that for clubbing saying oh my goodness it gives me absolute nightmares it is a terrifying thing Meghan What about you well Kathy Bates was my 2nd but my. Glenn Close is character and Dangerous Liaisons the Marquis's Yes manipulated everyone into bad behavior and good choice 1st only out 30 days something to amuse us all believe me use you all that your next bill murray Ghostbusters Groundhog Day The Oscar winning lost in translation and saying many whimsical Wes Anderson films has developed his talents in a new direction. I feel free to. Go for it is. Pretty. Rough. With me. I feel the charm in. The short story. 2 was. Still really denied to. Bill Murray channeling Maria from the musical West Side Story why well one day Bill met Jim and cellist young Vogler on a flight the 2 struck up a friendship and decided to work together on a project the result new worlds a long night show where they pair music with Mari reading speak singing it's classic American literature from what Whitman a Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn just always from West Side Story like you just heard and now yes you can buy the album here's Bill Murray and Yan Fogler talking to the b.b.c. Samir Ahmed about what they're trying to achieve I'm like a storyteller I'm not trying to show off my voice I'm trying to tell you what these words mean or what they can feel. Like so I'm trying to feel them as from as with best I can it's reading the thing the way you did America the sense of talking in a voice that is that you want to. Use speaking someone else's words I like to. Buy a new. Car for a small children. That's amazing material all those songs America somewhere I think is an amazing song to musically how do you arrange these big school numbers from West Side Story for the intimacy of what's essential kind of some performance all instruments in the voice Well 1st I think we selected pieces bits are intimate by nature I mean they are not symphonic even if they were played sometimes with big orchestra even if you pretty does have a very intimate Bill Murray singing I feel pretty you know when you pick something like that it's going to raise a smile as much as appreciation of the performance well I didn't pick it you know and picked it and I thought wow is this going to go I'm not going to really be like just real cartoony and my going to be a man wearing a dress is what is going to feel like I've got a pretty good world in America. Who can see that the tribe. Turns out to be so much fun interesting because it's really someone who may or may not be pretty and it's just someone giving herself an article I'm just everything I never thought I was like that right now and it's because she's in love I have a lot of. Bill Murray and Yan Fogler coming on and it's great hearing unusual collaboration's isn't it targeted in the studio with me you laughing What did you make of that. Kind of thing that you just know if it wasn't Bill Murray it wouldn't be happening but I think you said in an interview with Vanity Fair I've never bombed so I will see whether or not that's. Is Out to the world through point Meghan What did you make of that I think it's quite fun I mean it's weird but you know when you say as you've done all that why not try something completely ridiculous I hurry because he's just throwing himself into it I think he's carrying it off. Film talk now on the arts and the rain dance festival of independent film here in the u.k. Is celebrating its 25th year I so look forward to the movies they screen every year it's now the biggest festival of independent cinema in Europe and its founder and director Canadian born Grove spoke to the B.B.C.'s dancing stock she asked him what's changed in the world of movies in recent years February 15th 2005 is a key date in the film industry that no one talks about 12 years ago now that's when You Tube launched and with that the people the way people look at films has changed and with that the entire distribution model has totally changed which has meant that it is almost impossible for him to get a into a cinema now because you're up against the big American highly marketed and budgeted films so you need to look at alternative distribution so after to be used to be a dirty word but as a farm boy I would liken it to me with money vegetables and potatoes out of the laneway you driving by slamming on the brakes wanting to get something really fresh bold and exciting without paying the middleman you before about about your own upbringing and you know your 1st connection with cinema which was very intense because when I grew up on the horse and buggy people I was told never ever to go to the movie theater because you didn't want to be caught there when Jesus came back now would you so it's not after the age of 16 hot summer's day I was running an errand into local village outside Toronto and I was 16 and. Had a few coins in my pocket and I was wondering what the devil looked like and long behold just got from the house of the Lord was the house of the devil and I walked up and I found out that in those days there were only charged $0.99 to see what the devil looked like as I paid my money walked in now remember I had no idea what went on in a movie theater I was just told never ever to go there so I walk in is a big room a bit like church you know with chairs lined up facing the front I said down they turned and lights up the curtains opened and the 1st place of the devil I saw at the tender age of 16 I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit here on the b.b.c. Was Lassie comes home. But it was a revelation and at the end of rushed up I had to feel the screen deceive like to feel stuff I'm just gone and twinkling of an eye I was just totally hooked so that sets your relationship with film and that if I didn't get that experience now aside from a few very particular religious or cultural circumstances almost no young person is going to have that experience now so do you think that the expense of young people their relationship with film has changed it is different it certainly in a lot of people who are maturing in terms of their physical age if I can be somewhat political and. Their 1st experience with moving images are not a natal a vision or even a cell phone but with virtual reality and you see those experiences are very very emotional and very very intense and people always remember the 1st time they saw virtual reality which is why we have such a big focus on the our Raindance are you that hopeful though about the creative possibilities the potential for directors with the art because that is the problem in the storytelling if you like is the problem where we have this amazing technology that allows you to turn your head around and says Dr interact with creatures on the film and the real challenge is how do we use that for storytelling and believe me every single filmmaker I meet is trying to figure out the. It out and someone is going to crack that and become too virtual reality and intertainment what Hitchcock and so on did all those years ago and the growth found of the Raindance Film Festival talking there about the importance of what virtual reality or we are allows you to do and why it's the future of cinema Well my guests on today's are making Gil He's in our Johanna's the studio and film critic he's here with me in London Megan as a film editor what do your feelings about virtual reality I have to confess to being a little and whelmed by it so far I don't know I'm not sure how it's going to work story was very sort of on the fence about it at this point if the future of cinema has to lie in giving the audience a better experience or an enhanced experience in that cinema because otherwise we could do a watch and devices do you think there's something in that yes or no but the problem is if you can do v r a poem Yes it's only you know 3 d. Everyone thought it was going to make a big difference the only place it's really working is in animated felt so I don't know if there's something about that 2 d. Picture that widescreen that still I think has the most romance for me that's a lovely were putting it what about you Tara Have you tried out any of the Wii or headset I have Yeah I've actually just come back from a weekend of in Gone thing myself in very are but the end where saying there's so many different types of virtual reality some of them are granted some of them are interactive so what I've had most of the go on if I can put it that way so far is the 360 they are where your positioned in the middle of of a film world and you're watching a film and I think that the thing that that is difficult at the moment there's just so much potential but we don't know where it's going to go and if you think about the early adoption of any technology that is one of the issues it takes a while for people to work out what. It can do and what it's best at so is the people who've never even entertained this concept or tried on one of the headsets that us can you just talk us through what you do you put on my headset and and then tell us will augment it means this is anything else if you can yes so I mean you sit down on a on a little state on your and that's the other thing it is a bit isolating it's not quite the collective experience of cinema or in cinema of the seats knitted together like a row of you know knitting needles kind of got you know your person on either side and you can sort of feel the audience you might be able to hear them giggle with you feel the idea of them sort of shifting in their seat when something's uncomfortable and you've got peripheral vision so you can you can see the audience is there with you but in all granted in the virtual reality you sit individually put on an individual headset and so you're not actually able to see and hear what's going on in the room around you now the implications for the future suggest that might not be true you have the option where you could if you start all the films simple tenuously actually pump the sound into a room so you could hear people giggle with you it is possible in certain types of virtual reality to have an avatar an outline of the person who's sitting with a headset on next to you all have you could look around and maybe see them I haven't experienced that yet but the possibility is there so I think one of the things that's really difficult when we talk about whether or not it's going to be the future of cinema or if it works is that we haven't tried everything yet there is the very 1st virtual reality cinema opened last year in Amsterdam so there is actually somewhere in the world which is trying this now certainly it's got the potential to disrupt things and to make the experience something entirely new Meg and have you worn one of the real headsets Yes I have for us and how do they feel to you. It's not a comfortable way of off experience phone you know experience while experiencing a reality I suppose I think it's not going to be film it's going to be something different it's going to be another experience but not cinema as we know it. Very interesting. You're listening to the art fair on the b.b.c. World Service with me Nicky Beatty and Meghan Gayle your over there in Johannesburg you spend most of your working life in darkened rooms making actors look better than they often are because you are a film editor and what an impressive list of credits the Oscar winning movie took the directed by South African filmmaker Gavin who did I in the sky with Helen Mirren and lots of mini drones scary stuff directed by Gavin Hood and your relationship with him is director and you with editor also includes X.-Men Origins Wolverine when Dishan with Jake Gyllenhaal to tell us about this incredible director editor relationship we have there I think we just get each other weirdly enough it's that simple Someone once wrote it it's a world because you spend so much time with him and I sort of like in my job a bit to being a therapist but what did you really want to say here what was your plan with this we talk at arts we all get arts then we respect each other and how much does an editor have to say in what gets cut where I mean is there was sort of a rule of thumb and then it depends on how you develop your relationship obviously but but all the standards in the beginning No I mean I try to put as much as possible in the full or that the director's done because I think they're done for a reason to try to give everything a chance that they shoot and then try and take stuff out the stuff that doesn't feel like it's working for whatever reason and when you for example make your 1st step is it called the posted it on the 1st cut tell me what the language is wait for either it is fun Oh Ok so it's not the most difficult part of an editing process that 1st part I find it the hardest because it's the thing where it's a bit like a bright as blank page and. Working my way through what I think someone wants to say and I have to go through all the material. As carefully as possible that's my No And my most insecure part thinking I'm not getting it so maybe this is right and then I usually most of my cuts are do 2 or 3 versions of the scene 1st until trial work between some of them not big changes but sometimes I'll have 2 or 3 different options of Hussien could be. Done no I'm right but I don't that. I like the fact you know you're right tell me about the hardest films to edit I mean all their particular things is an action for I'm thinking about oh in the skies for example and all those drones if you haven't seen the film by the way to all of you listening there's a bug there is a drone this is a little bird I mean because you have to do that perspective was that hard. Yes and no I mean what was really hard about that film was every every location was shots completely separately so Helen Mirren has a conversation with Aaron Paul's character they never really spoke to each other all that sort of thing took a long time to put the whole film together because fictions couldn't be cut until I had the other side of the conversation the other side of footage all that sort of thing that was the most complicated thing about that form and of course the all the drones weren't real so those were all done in as be a fix what you say Make it makes a good editor patience. I don't know you know it's sort of the talking about it is a bit like dancing about architecture and stuff it's so hard to explain why something works some ways and sometimes it doesn't for me it's most of my thing is instinct and perseverance so I was my 1st instincts and then I go back and ours wrong let me start again let's try another instinct go back try something else don't be so certain that everything you've done is right and how did you get started as a negative Did you know that that was always what you wanted to do No no I was actually a holiday job friend of mine need an exorcist and while I was on university break I went into the office for 2 months and then didn't want to leave and I had to go back to university it good for you because that's been the film world's an hour as we was gain I guarantee in the last 3 years you've done a number of prison films and you're currently working on a film who may thing which is set amongst the Muslim community in Cape Town It seems like there's a really vibrant film scene in South Africa it's getting more and more vibrant due to government funding a lot of new film schools bringing out new students this suddenly a burst of 20 or 30 films being made here and the forms are getting better and better more you do the better they get and how much you know made a little Joe. Earlier saying you know it's your job to make actors who haven't necessarily given the greatest performances look gray how much of that is really true you know you can't fix a terrible performance. But you can make a good performance even better and you can ruin a good performance again that's not for me with instinct and timing and heart what does that feel honest and real Those are mass touchstones the way I cut absolutely fascinating make an and thank you your staying with us for the rest of the show of course. If you love the art and we love it when you do it why not lend your ears to the cultural front line because this one. From the bookshop in Los Angeles that just been selling and publishing banned Persian political writing literature and poetry since 981. The. Music now in the cellar and the sisters Tara and Laura their Scottish Egyptian a multi instrumentalist and their big heralded as the new sound and places of the classical and crossover worlds whatever that means Sarah plays the cello and Lord of the violin ams they're both pianist and a couple of years ago they put a version of Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars uptown funk on line and d.j. And producer Mark Ronson actually heard it and the rest is history they've just released their 1st album they came into the b.b.c. To talk to Jenny Mary and she knows how important it is for them to reflect that Arabic culture in music oh a hugely important we are Egyptians and we're very very proud to be Egyptians we've never lived there but we go to Egypt at least once a year we have a huge amount of family there and. Reflecting that in some way in the music that we make is important because it's a huge part of who we are there's 2 tracks on the album that are of that kind of flavor so to speak one of them was a composition that encompassed their Islamic culture prayer and the Coptic Orthodox chance from the liturgy and we kind of role of peace inspired by these 2 sons and kind of unify them together and that was kind of a statement for us about our love for Egypt and our kind of hope and aspiration for the people there to be unified and we can't ignore the fact that East. This is where you grew up and you've been standing extremely Scorsese varying to play a show confirmed well was. Well was actually one of the 1st pieces of music that I heard and said to my mom I want to play this please get me the music I think I was 8 years old at the time is one of those pieces that a lot of violence of played so we decided to write an arrangement for it her violin and cello and put it on the album and to the farewell track to our album career it sure. Say to me that sounds like a church and people think it is a bad well but it's Sasheer lament for the dead at a funeral quite beautiful Don't go away a lot more to come and the all sounds back after this. You're listening to the b.b.c. World Service and this is a brand new podcast we've got for you spiration it's parameters what people stance is to be engaged the symmetrical podcast is called in the studio how did you do this what's real what's not we're going to visit some of the world's great creative minds their places of work at. This wonderfully chaotic place. You know sound like things to like gravity to safeguard their I think the something very inspiring about being in a place where inspiration struck was a big eureka moment and I think if you want to understand a work of art better and have that talking to the personal people who created it in the spaces in which they've created it is my grandfather's clock is a fantastic way I think that's there in the studio Subscribe now one of your podcasts or go to b.b.c. World Service dot com slash in the studio. Still to come on the art sale with me Nicky Beatty director Paul Greengrass on creating a hero who was working outside the system I loved for fact that Jason Bourne was a sort of oppositional character he was a posed to the system maybe you know he knew they were lying to him he wanted to find out why. Goldman talks about creating the female villain for Kingsmen the Golden Circle and Miley Cyrus is now grown up apparently all that and more coming up on the art. B.b.c. News with David Alston at least 12 people have drowned and many more are missing after a boat carrying row hinge or Muslim refugees capsized while crossing a river for me and Maher to Bangladesh up to 100 people were reportedly on board and rescue was a searching for any survivors as the leaders of Catalonia consider whether they'll declare independence from Spain 2 more companies are deciding whether to join a growing number of businesses vacating the region there's growing speculation that the leader of Catalonia may issue a statement on Tuesday which stops short of a unilateral declaration of independence the 1st of more than $1600.00 suspected Boko Haram militants are due to appear in trials in Nigeria show deal to start today most of the defendants were arrested in the last few years Turkey's currency has dropped sharply against the u.s. Dollar following a diplomatic route between the 2 countries in early trading the Turkish lira was down more than 2 and a half percent after both sides suspended most visa services for the other citizens the White House has tied any new deal on young undocumented immigrants to clamp down on illegal immigration including a border war with Mexico in exchange the trumpet ministrations said it would be lenient towards the nearly $700000.00 immigrants who came to the country illegally as children the Bosnian Muslim war time military commander Nasr Horridge has been acquitted of war crimes by a court in Sarajevo has to or it was cleared of killing 3 Bosnian Serb prisoners near Srebrenica in 1902 Bosnian Muslims consider Mr or h. a War hero who defended Srebrenica as it was overrun by Serb forces 3 years later South Africa has signed a deal to send 6 black rhinos to Chad more than 40 years after the critically endangered animals were last seen there those are the latest stories from b.b.c. News. Welcome back to the arts now on the b.b.c. World Service with me Nicky Beatty and if you've only just joined us here's a rapid recap of what you missed in the 1st half of the show actor and comedian Bill Murray singing speaking I feel pretty from West Side Story No really the founder of Europe's biggest indie film festival told us virtual reality is the way forward and I had a long chat with South African film editor Megan Gale who still with us in our Johannesburg studio and here with me in London Tara Judah film critic and Sydney asked coming up in the health of the show in a moment Paul Greengrass a director whose work on the original Bourne trilogy changed the face of action films but she's thing in some way to Emily's Sunday tells us about going back to her family's roots in Zambia It was phenomenal I mean it really was very very rural there was no electricity. Yeah late nights everyone would sing in the harmonies where her mother never hoped for but children as young as 4 just pick them up so naturally I made a lot more sense. We'll hear from Miley Cyrus of course she's not Hannah Montana anymore she's no longer thrusting her tongue out in her undergarments only though or because she's grown up now and has a new album and the fabulous filmmaking to a Jane Goldman and Matthew Vaughn talk about their new movie Kingsmen the Golden Circle and how they see female villains 1st then film director Paul Greengrass who's Jason Bourne trilogy has netted a $1000000000.00 in ticket sales and as I mentioned reinvented the action film genre it's hand-held camera work sophisticated villains and then of course the hero who bled bruised and wince like any of us would send me his United $93.00 was one of the most powerful films I've seen Paul Greengrass came from a background of making News document. He's where he called out corruption and hypocrisy in the corridors of power actually one of the themes that underpins a lot of his feature films to date the B.B.C.'s Kirsty Young asked growing grass if he was surprised then when he stubbornly found himself a blockbuster movie director intensely surprised. It was never what I thought I would end up doing and it came along and I thought oh yeah I know what to do with this well I wouldn't only want to do that and I haven't but that character spoke to me for sure I loved the fact that Jason Bourne was a sort of oppositional character he was opposed to the system he you know he knew they were lying to him and he wanted to find out why you know I think if you want to understand something of what happened in Britain and America and in the West in the early years of the 2000. The fear of the paranoia I think the ball movies give you a pretty good sense of that in a popcorn commercial way but I think that young people particularly responded because of that and because of the sense that it told the truth that time the question of what modern audiences will accept must surely be a very current one as a filmmaker given that in this digital world we are exposed to images and to relentless pace of how we consume of those images in a way that human beings have never been before how do you navigate that as a filmmaker. Well I think it's interesting when I made Bourne Supremacy which was the 1st time I'd ever made up a sort of Hollywood film you know I had a sort of a static of my own which was in a way I thought reaching back to the roots of British documentary really isn't you know I liked zoom lenses and I liked the camera in a hand and I like to be very immersive in my way I wondered when I went to make a commercial film how that would work and 1st they were I think a bit skeptical as to how it was going to work when they should just remember the 1st time we sat in the theater and I could hear what the producers like I had to have to do with the camera. But later we when we came to shoot Bourne Ultimatum I remember being on the station and seeing for the 1st time people filming us filming with their mobile phones and that had a huge impact on me because I suddenly realised that what I thought was a quite old fashioned us that it actually had become to my surprise very contemporary because particularly young people were used to capturing images on their mobile phones that were handheld very rewarding raft and so they wanted their sin a mile to reflect that thinking of some of your other work Captain Phillips United 93 in particular the nature of the feeling of threat I mean that is quite obviously a very good dramatic device but I wonder why you're interested in it simply as a human being well it's a good question and I don't craft those things so the consciously if you know what I mean it reoccurs in in the films I've made again and again I sort of slow build up and the choreography of conflict if you want to call it that I mean I think I've always. I had a sense of dread about 1000000 cyber for sure. But I think ultimately these things go back to your childhood you know I can remember as a small boy watching Snow White and being absolutely terrified by the Witch and the relationship between the films you make and your experiences are never clear until many years later many years later Paul Greengrass their film critic Tara Jude is here with me in London film editor Meghan Gayle's in Johannesburg so let me ask you both were in the stones changing digital world it's possible for all of us in fact to make our own films if we've got a smart phone so do filmmakers have to adapt their style anaesthetic much faster than they used to tell or did they have to but I do think that there is certainly a sense that technology moves really quickly and there's a kind of pace to technology speeding up that we're fascinated by so I can understand the kind of camera work and the editing mirroring the sorts of things that we're seeing in society and certainly in terms of like the Bourne films it's sort of makes sense that that's moving really quickly I think you know you pick I mean maybe Meghan can speak better to this but you pick a style that works with the content and works to better serve the storytelling and I think that's the most important thing Meghan What do you think them Yeah exactly I think if you are a slave to style you're not a good storyteller I think there's this that is a film in the story you're trying to tell should talk to each other that's the same with editing I can't have a style my style has to mirror what has been shot and what the director wants but do you think that there are fashions in film where you know there's an editing style that people keep using yes there are fashions and it's we had someone like our Mr NACA on Wolf of Wall Street she did her speed ups and the playing with time and. All that stuff it was amazing and some people can get away with it and her and Scorsese can but most people can't you know and if you do it very well that sort of gimmicky stuff for me to us and work to do you see you see so many films as a critic do you see that there's a fashion for something certainly Yeah I think the fashions kind of come and go though and they leave as quickly as they arrived I mean certainly when 3 day was that it's you know height of like this is going to be successful we saw a lot of horror movies with stuff being thrown out of the screen at us that didn't really stick around because it is a gimmick and it doesn't work and so you see visual styles kind of come and go I think the fast paced editing has its place in stories like born but where it doesn't work is in films like the Transformers films where you kind of see it there to just mask the fact that we can't quite get a glimpse of what's going on our screen you know both of you at various points during the show today have mentioned 3 d. Almost like it's not here anymore although it had to I had a moment I mean not a moment in the fifty's as far as I remember I wasn't alive. What ease then for d x I keep hearing about for d.x. I know that there are cinema in this city that of 40 x. I could have seen baby driver in for dx it appeals to all the senses apparently and then there are special effects you get winded bubbles and do you have to be in 3 d. Meghan to see a 40 x. Male can be an arsehole baby driver in 40 x. And it was awful that's it but this but it wasn't 3 d. Picture it was a 2 d. Picture was my chair moving around and me being sort of slightly moved around all over the place and wind coming at me and I didn't enjoy the experience at all so how much did your chair move forward backward sideways or is it like a mass not seat. A little bit it's a bit like you know when you're honest the 3 d. Rides at Disneyland and stuff yeah you're not going up and down roller coaster but the chair is moving it's that kind of experience you know at the Science Museum or somewhere. Yeah I think I want to assimilate a ride. Not sure it's going to that it's not sort of a lot of me but look 3 d. Is here to stay it's not it's not disappearing it's also worth saying it was part of early cinema which is before silence into these things existed right from the beginning cinema has always always always from its very very early days been absolutely fascinated with seeing what can we do and how can we make it more exciting for us. Push up bursting thing Emily Sunday who really has it maybe singing the new Bond theme song has recently premiered her new track Starlight That's from a new e.p. Called Kingdom coming which is out in November while Emily was born to a Zambian father and an Englishman but she grew up in Scotland and she actually studied to be a neuroscientist music was obviously her true calling since 2012 she's won some of the most prestigious and populist music awards in the world she performed at the 2012 London Olympics opening ceremony she performed for the Obama's at the White House when she came into the b.b.c. And spoke to the B.B.C.'s Chang Garvey she asked to be inside the reflected in her music I just had to very I guess polar opposite cultures really to take from and it really felt like I could almost design who I was just from both of them Long live the angels as your latest album and there was a certain amount of influence on the album from a trip to Zambia Yes but is it really true because I want to believe this that you sit around fires and everybody sings and does all that family really do it was phenomenal I mean it really was. Very very rural there was no electricity and there was it was very just being back to basics and really feeling very human So yeah late nights everyone would sing in the harmonies where armies I'd never heard before but children as young as 4 or just picked them up so naturally it made a lot. Percents for me you know where the music. Then and love learning going down homey to me down the. Same name it's a. Chatter around. Me now not me now. Then . There was. Emily Sunday and Dave you're listening to the sound the b.b.c. World Service and more film now with a quirky and a very successful British creative jewel his movies include Stardust Kick-Ass which I loved X.-Men 1st Class and Kingsmen the Secret Service which now has a sequel Kingsmen the Golden Circle the Geo producer director Matthew Bowman and his writing partner Jane Goldman Well James always fascinated me because she's a girl geek she loves gangs and comic books towers nothing in the studio here and has wildly imaginative to color at the moment it's candyfloss pink and also any woman who can write gangsta dialogue like she does is rather fabulous in my humble opinion anyway 2 years ago Jane a Matthew gave us the 1st Kingsmen So it was a spy film but with a bit of a difference Oscar winning actor Colin Firth played Secret Agent Harry hot and the film was a really big hit and now there is this Kingsmen sequel Colin Firth is back and playing the arch villain poppy and international drugs barrenness is the magnificent Julianne Moore the lead you see John Wilson Goldman and Matthew Vaughn about her we've got a female villain didn't need to have stereotypically masculine traits we think be more interesting to explore other areas trying to stop the atoms. Of the cold turkey. We didn't teach in a great business strategy. That the latest test. And treat strict disciplinary action. But I think it just comes back again subverting expectations female the lens or you know any villains are expected to have a certain flavor of threat to them and I think it was just interesting to us to explore different flavors of threat and say that someone doesn't need to be necessarily threatening or militaristic in that stereotypically masculine why they're actually often female villains are in order to explain why anyone listens to them but I think Juliane proves very much she can be feminine and terrifying so many of the spitefulness of the thriller are driven by machismo you know and the male hero writing and having empowered women in so many of those roles that you've written some people some women may watch this film and be surprised or maybe disappointed there are not more action scenes for the women I thought that I was very yes I've. Done it girl I'll bet I'm in 1st class so we do female agree with one of the ways but I was there I say this is I do think when people focus too much and should a woman play the role of the role I think that's creating keeping an issue alive we should get to a stage where it doesn't matter as a man or a woman playing it and I think Hollywood is getting a lot better we've encountered no push backs of our in our roles I do absolutely agree with I don't understand why actors get paid more money than actually you know I find it is all about and in terms of the action and again the division of labor on screen Well I think as Matthew says that it's just is the case for this movie but also I think that's a very complex issue there and you know I think it's quite a common position to hope that there's a kind of simplistic approach to this horrible phrase strong. Female character this weird assumption that means they have to be good at punching people and I think that's a really simplistic approach and I don't think it's necessary I think Poppy is an interesting girl and because she's not a physical villain she doesn't have to be it's there's something I think inherently anti feminist about saying that a female character is only good character if they also do all the things that men do because there's an implication there that that's what makes character good but you have how you bury it there in this film an Oscar winner doesn't matter that she doesn't get her knuckles bruise them because she's part of the brains beyond brains Yeah I mean in the same way that you know character does not have physical fights in it but nobody is saying which is that diminish his character if they are then they need to look at why there are that writer Jane Goldman and producer Matthew Vaughn co-writer of Kingsmen to out in cinemas now Tara as a film critic you must have seen a fair few female screen villains who I have indeed what makes them work for you Well it's a multiplicity of things I mean you know one of the things that I love about a villain male or female is if they are slightly likable charismatic as well as evil and I think that's in the writing that's in the performance that's where it comes out they don't have to just because the cool I think irony Kill Bill is a great physical villain but it's also really great when it's a psychological villain so we mention Kathy Bates playing and he Wilkes in misery earlier but also you know characters like Catherine Murtaugh in Cruel Intentions is a really great villain I really like Lola from ministry in film called The loved ones she's a fantastic villain and you can play with gender in genre in these ways you don't have to stick to the kind of bad women equal lycra and you know that sort of thing well you mean. You can go beyond the cats. Meghan Have you ever worked on educating a female body Well I suppose the Helen Mirren character in our sky was a bit of a baddie and that part was actually written for men and Gavin doesn't want to use a woman was quite. Amazing I think she's probably my most villainous woman there talking about the physicality of the villains I found that a little bit weird because I think all the best villains are the ones pulling the strings in the background so I mean that's the perfect female villain offered an incredibly beautiful isn't you know male villains we think they're ugly and females this is simplistically and the female ones are always like you said in like what's that about then I think we have does need to thank for that comes from really classic fairy tales being told to us was told her in you know Cinderella the evil stepmother all the wicked witch so we've got these characters that are presumed to be a certain type heroes and villains a very broadly drawn in stories like that and that's because they're aimed at a really young audience so they want it to be very simplistic Meghan Do you think that found the feminist Yeah do you think it is and while while none of the men all call just want to lead men yeah yeah and while the men wearing like Oh yes sorry they are they are. Finally on today's one of those showbiz kids that we've watched grow up in front of our eyes Miley Cyrus she was for a generation of children Disney's Hunnam Montana and then she grew up a bit Miley became a proper pop star not just a Disney one and shocked the world with her scantily clad performances twerking and punky tongue thrusting and then she grew up some all Miley invited the b.b.c. . Into her Rainbowland studio in Malibu California and they had a bit of a chat about her new album now in spite of the fact that she's grown up a bit it's called younger now and by the way Cyrus wrote and produced all of it and I have to say I know I've been a bit facetious here I like her a lot specially that gravelly voice naturally I think people of all that I think for me with bears and in 2030. It was really about freedom and like I just feel 'd the message is so different for where we're at you know politically and socially and so I just think that's kind of German my music politics always dies and you still know that you have response been it's you go do you get I mean even if the album is cool young to tell the truth well I think young when you're young when you're a kid that's why there's like Kids Say the Darndest things as they're telling the truth and they don't have that fear yet they haven't been told all this person is different they haven't been told this sexuality is right you're just like you're just learning so you're so much more of a blank canvas ready to learn and I so I guess by being younger now you can be you know younger and wiser I think is kind of where I feel I feel like in my spirit because I don't feel like I have anything to prove and when you're a kid you're not trying to prove anything I think when you're a teenager you just want to prove like I'm not my parents or I'm not this or you know you just want to you're like running away from me and I think you know when you're a kid you don't do that and I think as you get older and you get more mature you stop trying to run from your past self and you start embracing He used to be and be like I'm so cool because I've changed so much you know like I love being different . He said that's where your head was when you. Are little and talk about well I've put bangers out that was just the x. That was my life like that I was a variance in my Mom was super and my mom was that is what I was and I think a bigger she was like I would you know she sneak out to go see like rock and roll bands and I felt that was what hip hop was for me at that time because like I would go sneak out to go see concerts I want to go like listen to Mike will play or any of that so my album was so. Inspired by the life that I was living just like this album is inspired by the last I'm living now I'm going. Back home much more I'm much closer with my parents and I was at that time because also one I was making bangers I was you know like 1920 years old and I just feel like every year I'm just like maturing more and more by almost just caring about I think Bangerz I was really proving Hey I don't care what anyone thinks but now I like really really don't care but I don't care it in the way that I'm Ike I care about the right things you seem really at peace with yourself yeah your voice sounds different I feel really just like around and I think my voice sounds more grounded and I think I'm thinking less about here got to go here stand here and dance here with these people here and it's more about the music and so I think right now like what I want is for people to focus on lyrics that I actually think it has an important message I think it's saying you know change the thing you can count on and I think that should be good instead of it's like you know people make change a bad thing Miley Cyrus told you growing up in front of all isn't dies but it's never an easy road growing up as a show in the public eye we always hear the stories how activism musicians have crashed and burned what about the successful ones and healthy lifestyles taler any examples Yeah there are a few feel like it's very unfair as we get to meet dear I very much focused on news stories but actually loads of kids do go on to be active performers later in life who have grown up in front of our eyes and we haven't really noticed that they haven't made mistakes are they or they haven't publicly made them as it is I guess is the way to put it so Joseph Gordon Levitt who was in Roseanne and didn't from the sun is inception he's you know carried on to have a great Korea Christina Applegate who grew up in front of us with married with children and she's got her own t.v. Show Samantha who we've got Jessica built from 7th Heaven which was one of those wholesome American t.v. Shows and she's in the film Hitchcock in the remake of Total Recall and also a lot of remakes of horror movies and a Chlumsky who was in my goal and we've seen her in Veep and in the loop as an adult Claire Danes who went. Again a kind of troubled teen on My So-Called Life now the head of a program called Homeland So it is definitely possible for these actors and actresses to kind of make that leap make and what about South Africa how do you treat your young child stars at all how does the media treat them rather the way quite gentle with them when we don't have that many people have done the transition here. Letty commando who was in Sarah Phina which was I suppose shot in the early ninety's or let me go south you know made it on and saying yes that's right yeah right direct about their roots so in the late he's still going doing a lot of t.v. Done a few more forms with Daryl actually I actually worked on film with Reese Witherspoon which was 10 o t 2 which. Was called School far off place which was shot in Zimbabwe and I was an assistant editor and then a cut to 20 years later in British and so that was quite weird what a little as we mentioned earlier oh so when you saw her again did you go back into the editing room when she was 10 years old the airlines Yes Yes No I could see her because she had didn't change much actually Reese she looked very similar and that must be the other thing you get close quarters to the amount of Scituate some people might be doing to them but he's. Never noticed never no never no see you know. I like to ask my guests every week if they have a recommendation something that we can either listen to will watch or go visit something cultural the artistic Tara what have you got for us a pod cast which is Australian It's the true crime podcast cold case file it is a show that I love one because it's very comforting to me to hear the Israeli an accent while I'm away from home but also because they do really great research into all the cases and so if you like true crime it's such a well researched show it's chilling I don't know why we like to scale. Well sometimes but we do so that's a great recommendation it's a podcast and it's called Case File leg and what have you got for us I'm going to talk about a film called The wound it's a new South African film which has been on the festival circuit most of the Cea but it's also getting sentimental releases throughout the world it's directed by South Africa writable John train growth and I suppose the glib description of it would be South Africa's Brokeback Mountain it's about initiation ceremonies for for young men the sun and cause a culture and it's a bouts a gay relationship with in that community that sounds that's what you want you to for say it's called the when and the we're going to yes thank you for that thank you to my guests today Meghan Gill and Tara Judith thank you for your company on this week's arts hour and don't forget you can be in touch with me end the show by email the art at the b.c. Dot co dot u.k. Also details and information about this week's show on the website that's the v.c. World Service dot com Sasha on the now for me Nicky Beatty m produces Philippa Ritchie and Olivia Skinner see you next week you're listening to the b.b.c. World Service the news is in a couple of minutes if you could change the lives of women with one great idea this October join our challenge as we try to smash through the glass ceiling we write female illiteracy shine a light on street harassment and tackle sexism in sport the B.B.C.'s 100 women challenge on radio on t.v. And to b.b.c. World Service dot com slash 100 women. Today it's 1030 g.m.t. The conversation let me turn to touching your skin was once the reserve of men mostly sailors who traveled the seas but today it's because fashion accessory for both men are women I meet 2 women who are accomplished and have gained a cult online following in the process this is the b.b.c. World Service the world's radio station. Turn a lie.