Before magistrates later a charity claims around 600 people leave their jobs every day to care for a sick or elderly relative care as U.K. Says about 15 percent of the working population also cares for someone close to them and wants to see more flexibility in the workplace and police in Belgium are looking for thieves who tunnelled from sewers into a bank vaults in Antwerp they forced open at least 20 deposit boxes but it's not known how much was taken this customer says the bank won't tell him anything other than that he should fill out an insurance form Bill 1st of all we have to recollect what we have inside of we don't and then we have to fill it up and they needed for insurance but was told them that you know we're going to ministers so it's better than did tell us which lockers are broken and only those people have developed the form but they're saying that everybody has to wait the spoil his team stare Liverpool missed the chance to go 5 points clear at the top of the Premier League after drawing one all at West Ham Sunday a man a controversial 1st half open it was cancelled out after a well worked free kick so Mikael Antonio equalize the report 3 points ahead of Manchester City West Ham are 12th sports minister Mims Davis will hold an urgent meeting with football's leaders to discuss how to tackle racism and discrimination in the game it follows a number of incidents of races chancing and abuse aimed at play as coaches and fans in recent weeks holders Chelsea will face Arsenal in the 5th round of the women's F.A. Cup the full draw can be found on the B.B.C. Sport websites and app Craig Brathwaite will captain the West Indies in the final Test against England in place of the suspended Jason holder Holder is banned because of his side slow overrates in the 2nd test a decision that England bowler Mark Ward says is harsh an England on line style the day we will leave wasps at the end of the season after triggering a release clause in his contract this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Said. This. There was a bright fit chilly start for most today with some mist unfold in places northern and eastern parts will have sunny spells in the morning but cloud and rain in the Southwest will gradually spread Jaring the day reaching much of the U.K. By evening. Will. I. Should I stay should. Saturday. Should. Say yes I spoke this life. And were up all night. Traders in the crypt. And would rather forget after our words fail me appreciation of 2 and a half percent over $27.00. And the year changing hands for $20000.00 unfortunately for those who imagine it could go higher. Exactly the other way but lost over 80 percent of its value and actual dollars to finish the year bumping around $3700.00 if crypt cards his wild ride is over the market for the current continues to diversify from but. It's like cash cash. Ripple But the thing not to be a right is something called Quadriga and we're going to tell you why because Canada's largest scripta concepts change says it's on able. To access digital currency worth millions following the sudden death of its founder Quadriga says it's not been able to locate or secure a script to concert Reserves says Gerald cotton died in December at the age of 30 and court documents filed in a Canadian court Mr Carton's widow and here is the awful warning for us all said that the laptop on which she carried out the company's business is encrypted and that she doesn't know the password or the recovery key Alexandra preside scheme is a reporter for The Globe and Mail who's been covering this Hello Alexandra. The guy is good it is it is I say an awful warning to us all isn't it you know we've got 11 computer in which we store all our best stuff we'd better let somebody know the password in case we're not around tomorrow that's right and apparently in the case of this company this court filings that the sound had not given anybody else access to the front and I was a 2nd operation this this Quadriga I mean was it legal for him to do that that's a really interesting question I mean here in Canada crypto currency exchanges operate largely outside of the purview of any regulator and so the short answer is I guess it would be legal because there's really no regulation government governing how these sorts of exchanges are operated and given the cryptocurrency is just that what would be what would he have been able to do that nobody else can do I mean why has everybody else stock if they've got the key if they've got the the thing that on law one Quadriga or whatever you say. Well the issue is the location of some of the curb a wall its so-called wall it's basically a type of storage of crypto currency that is stored line so for example on a hard drive or a U.S.B. Stick or a device called the treasure and soul is the thinking here is that he was the only one who knew where this close storage was so even the wallets themselves can be located much less the access to the wallet but then how do you as a as a holder of the car on say have any security how do you how do you know you've actually got something of value Well I mean that's a great question. And I mean it's generally is a holder cryptocurrency you would move the currency into your own wallet where you're the one who has the access to it and nobody else issued her customers a quandary guys that those who had left their money sitting in the exchange as opposed to transferring it to their private wallets are no longer able to access those funds. Does that sound like another awful warning is it best practice when you when you buy a crib the concept to keep it in your own wallet your own outrunning wallet Absolutely although of course we've heard many many stories of people losing their own wallets as well oh laptops hard drives accidentally getting thrown into dumpsters people forgetting the key so it's not foolproof. That does really does it kind of blow a hole in the whole idea doesn't that makes it would make you feel that a nostalgic for the days of posh books and although the kind of hard token that you've actually got an investment. Yeah I mean on the one hand the cryptocurrency community really believes in not having 3rd parties and so the advantage there is that no 3rd party can tell you what to do with your money whether you can move it out of the country for example but on the other hand there's nobody to protect you to provide a form of recourse if you lose your keys or in exchange those loses a bunch of money like this one dead and there is there's no insurance and nobody's offering you insurance on your on your trip to consular. I think that there are some insurers who do provide insurance but I don't believe that there was insurance in this instance and why should Quadriga be such a big deal in Canada anyway I thought the whole point about crypto conses was transcend barter. This is correct tell her the issue is that some exchanges don't allow you to cash out in certain types of currencies and so Quadriga was one of the so you exchanges that actually allowed users to convert to coin or experience directly into Canadian dollars without having to 1st transferred into U.S. Dollars and then losing money on that exchange rate and so that's why they were very popular option for users here in Canada. And they are they the number one trip to concent kind of is but kind still bigger. I want to sort of exchanges go Quadriga was a very large exchange there is some did in terms of who is the biggest exchange I obviously if you look at volume now their exchange is closed down so they're not doing significant volume anymore so it's hard to say who the biggest was because those numbers are not necessarily super reliable like I mentioned there's no regulations governing how. Information is reported governing transparency about how trading happens and so the numbers can show different exchanges being larger but some people say that those numbers can be inflated people can take a volume on their exchanges to make them look bigger that sort of thing and also the decline in the value of but calling the thought I was talking about are people still as enthusiastic about getting into crew took on say I mean or are they are they mostly people who have an ulterior motive effect and leave it like that. Well I would say that there is still fairly large amounts of hype the both the Clinton crypto currencies it has quieted down from its peak. However a lot of projects are already funded and already started going at the peak and so now there might be a bit sunk costs out of the going on where folks who had already gone the ball rolling don't want to throw all that money all that investment that they secured and there are also some very good walks chain related projects that are still going ahead but it's definitely much quieter than it was in the heyday when we saw the sort of mania the peak of 200-2070 early 2080 right yes I'm one of the family of Mr Cotton saying I mean it's a tragic story of a you know amount of certainty. Dies and everything is up in the. That's right so Joe died on December 9th and the family says he died of complications related to Crone's disease while he was travelling in India to grow up an orphanage He is survived by his widow Jennifer Roberts an in-house fax Nova Scotia and unfortunately I mean the families understandably the family has been pretty quiet we only really have to go off at the moment are court filings but we do know that his widow has been receiving death threats or she says that she's been receiving death threats from people some people or apparently in disbelief that he's actually Dad this is all mentioned in the C.C.W. Or the creditor protection filings So I think that she's trying to keep out of the public eye to avoid that sort of negative behavior. And so just going back to what you were talking about a little is known about the corporate structure so there wouldn't necessarily be companies sector traces and all that kind of thing a kind of a group of people who in the event of of this being a regular company would take over. So there is an interim C.E.O. Who has stepped in his name is Aaron Matthews and there are a couple was larger known shareholders there are a couple of board members I believe Miss Robertson herself is a board member as well as possibly her stepfather so there are a couple of people involved but you're right it's a private company and so there isn't a ton of information necessarily available around who is running the show and how things are going and who to contact for help and that sort of thing and to your knowledge of the R.C.M.P. Involved. That's a really great question I have heard some speculation that before trying to get the R.C.M.P. Involved we do not have confirmation from the R.C.M.P. At this point whether or not it's an active ongoing investigation and I'm not sure that that's something they would provide given that it may compromise an investigation but we have not heard whether there's any sort of police involvement at this stage Alexandra thanks for talking to us. Thanks so much for having me it's great chatting with their Thank you Alexander press ads from the Globe and Mail and Tronto and quickly from the front pages now the nissen story of course Clark under fire says the Telegraph minister under fire says the Guardian you see there's a kind of a theme here and then they the Times reports that Brick City years are rejecting a European Union concession on the back stop that's what the headline says the E.U.'s top official offered Britain a legal guarantee that it wouldn't be charged by the Irish backstop in other words a customs union for all time but in the event no future sorry there and in the event of a new deal however the times are saying that Baxter M.P.'s immediately rebuffed the suggestion so where cutting to the Times no where on that one and the Daily Mail says social media firms. Are going to be forced by law to sign a code of conduct protecting young and vulnerable users Well let's have a look at the Financial Times in the company of Fred student it's back to the great story with a big story for us around Mishan and IT decision to go back on a decision that it was going to be given you know down trees or commitment to in an agreement hammered out with the government or the British government that it was going to manufacture a C.V. There could be extra in it now that it's going to move production of that vehicle to Japan now obviously everyone's a lot of people be piling in immediately in fact. That's what you know Rex is already starting to show the downside of what it means when we leave the. Without a deal other people cautioning and saying that there are other factors at play. Within the whole automotive sector which is going through some pretty significant challenges that they. Are reviewing overall strategy and decision making but it's certainly an Weston's to be seized upon as an issue. Through the bricks of prism and what we now have is the infamous left that was sent. By the British government by the Business Secretary Greg Clarke to the chief exec a chief executive and. Other problems to. Deal with in Japan will leave those to one side because a complicated story in itself separate a lot going on in that company but basically it was. Saying the less of the. Story is showing that you know government. Provide up to 80000000 pounds of investment in Sunderland but that wasn't the. Contention on this decision to expand production that well that. Sort of. No longer the case. Gives you a sense of what Alice the same sort of reveals a shift in government position that the government when it struck it was a very critical moment actually because it was intended to sort of secure you know one of the. Foreign investors industrial investors but also a signal of confidence that you know we could. Regardless of what was happening with that we could continue to do things in the future and that at that time the government was basically saying it did not envisage a no deal scenario will now we'll living in a world where busy it's almost. You know plans are afoot to deal with a no deal scenario that gives some analysts a phone that tells you how far we've traveled in the past 2 and a bit yes that said the Business Secretary Greg Clarke has weighed in and he's among those around the Cabinet table he's ready said. Quote No Deal or No Deal that would be pushing putting pressure on the prime minister to rule that option out or to rule that eventuality out something that she doesn't seem willing to do just yet because there may be some tactical reasons and some leverage that she could still have by keeping it as an option. You have a story there about how much this is Revenue and Customs saying what they're going to try to do if I know deal actually happens Yeah well this is what I was saying when we were talking about you know preparations well see if said is that the interim what they would do is they would essentially way through trade coming from the into the U.K. . Imports would not it through without checks and that would be for a temporary period but it would basically be to sort of keep things moving which is gridlock at the polls. And I guess. The feeling is they could then sort of sort the paperwork out later on is talk to you know deferring the payments of any. For a month until after import so just. You know the pain with all the hassle that businesses would face in the immediate. Aftermath of of another. And I think businesses welcomed initially that there is some sort of communication coming from government but from groups like the British James a coma said well that's fine but we also need we just we still need more information we need to know what happens. You know what time what type of documentation will companies need when they are going to be trading with the something and it's not clear that anyone. Knows the full onset about. Now summer was very well regarded both on Wall Street and in the city of London as a basically hung up as Johnson and decided to retire to his farm for a quiet life or whatever he's going to do yeah well we relate to him Bill Gross very prominent man in financial markets was dubbed the wait for the bond king of Wall Street he is someone who really came to symbolize in many ways a part of the market bond. Debt the debt instruments often that it's been written out by government is to investors I mean I do hope I'm not being too dismissive but it was often seen as perhaps the sort of more dollar end of. One of the more the less racy corners of financial markets but under Bill Gross he'd certainly brought something to it and he built up a company called PIMCO based out of the West Coast of the U.S. And over the course of about 5 decades became a sort of powerhouse. In that the whole company led by him I mean even very much the figurehead. Of that part of the market and its peak it was managing nearly $300000000000.00 of. Investment now not an uncontroversial guy he's very sort of. Someone who's built up quite a good media presence as well the sort of studied sort of casual approach being is of the same unconventional in the way he appeared except. You know talked about how you've been together so lots of different things that you might not normally associate with the market investors but he also had a certain sort of management style didn't always go down well with some of his colleagues and there were tensions that built up over time and a few years ago. He quit PIMCO that was a big moment in in the financial sector I moved over to a new different employer Janus which then since then has become. Janus Henderson and I would love the buzz around that. The company suddenly got a lot of attention and its stock rose except for. But to be honest since then its performance is not being that great as many people might have hoped and feeling that maybe his best years Bill Gross is best back at PIMCO. And now that he's retiring and moving on that basically. You know it was time. Well it's not talking about stepping back and take a lower key role if that is possible for our next subject Michael O'Leary Brian Naylor Well I mean you know someone who is purdy much when you think of run you think of Michael O'Leary is sort of been a very successful head of the. Line but also always got a good eye for catching creating a headline punching language coming up with ideas plans policies that sometimes he sure would be just doing it to get ahead. Over the sort of the new face of low cost travel in terms of charging you for pretty much everything is. Ever more inventive ways of squeezing a little bit more out of passengers while at the same time with being able to say they were offering some of the cheapest if not the cheapest flights around. Have such a good run recently disappointing. And. That there's a generational shift now underway but it's going to play out over some time because . The phrases lacing up with. He will become. Go up to a higher role within. A 5 year plan but will no longer step back as chief executive line itself which is going to engage in a sort of restructuring of the way it sort of manages affairs Ryan has got some of the businesses. Some of the red. Lights of loud emotion the there's an airline and. It's also has another twist of how to create an entity. Called Ryan which is a way that can cope with any change in regulations that come in the wake of. Lines flying in from. Within the E.U. But definitely a sense that you know something's on the way people don't expect someone like Michael I'm not going to move up to a higher office somewhere quiet to me people will still be hearing from him. Keeping quiet not really something you'd associate. President in the Financial Times 9 year old Laurie Muar has written to the Disney Company the great Disney Company complaining that none of their princesses wear specs well on Sarah Brett's program on 5 Live during the day on Monday they all got together and they said let's here for go asas So here's some inspiration from your old Noah ha ha go Oh I am wrong. I think we're a glass is cool because it makes you different and if everyone was the say it would just be very very. I read a little to the action I'd join but hardly any of the characters well platens. Harry Potter one of the most fables. And guns and the pleased them are also in television programs a very ever seen Ward program in its early one at the has a character wearing glasses and in that program they also kind of make fun of it because they make the character night leashes classes a bed he stumbles around and they cut I think very nice I wanted about * how full my class wear glasses my class is a class of 20. Everything suddenly felt a bit better when I got what I went to the opticians it got some huge loss as it was if I could see the things that I haven't had and she before when I read just this is true. Wow Thank you know I was very inspiring a bus that minute I've been like you I've been doing a lot of reading. Suddenly somebody said you should get a pair of glasses because I was having trouble seeing the blackboard and then when I put these glasses on I could see the black were really well I wore them for a couple of years and then something mysterious happened and I didn't need them anymore to see the blackboard. Like others of us certainly age I just have to wear glasses to read and I don't know where I'd be without them I realize my little testimony I'm trying to think of cool people who are Garces I'm sure there are many but right no I can think of. Is Dr Crippen who I would not put in that particular class it's just coming up to have Parsi on digital B.B.C. Sense of space and various cities B.B.C. Radio 5 Live the main issue news comes from Dr MacLeod Thank you Rod search team say there's a body inside the wreckage of the plane that crashed carrying a 1000000 and pilots David Ebbets and it was found off the coast of guns the off the galley missing 2 weeks ago a decision not to build the new X. Trail S.U.V. And Sunderland could cost Nisson almost 60000000 pounds of government money the funding was agreed in 2016 relied on the car company producing 2 new models in the U.K. A man's been charged with murder after a fire the left one person dead at a mental health center in North London the 21 year old will appear in court later and police in Belgium are investigating after thieves tunneled their way from Antwerp sewers into a bank vault they forced open at least 20 deposit boxes but it's not yet known what was taken Tim Stan now with the sports Liverpool couldn't extend their lead at the top of the Premier League to 5 points after drawing one all at West Ham. Study a man is controversial 1st half open a put Liverpool in front but a well worked free kicks on McKellen Tonio equal I 6 minutes later you can club side are 3 points clear of Manchester City though because it meant his players needed to relax more in the game put in Enjoy the game enough to be honest but it was it was tough it was tough because of the changes was not easy and a point is good and with a kind of taking threat and a good set pieces and stuff the obvious use always struggled most with the set pieces when West Ham are 12th but manager man well Pellegrini says some key decisions were missed which cost his side we draw because. Calling up side were a metre and a half in up so we did a lot again because in the last of the game narrowly missed out go a lot it was again a one metre and a half an up side so I don't understand why Leinart is tight given so much advantage it is difficult to comment on mistake sports minister Mims Davis has called in football's leaders for an urgent meeting to discuss how to tackle racism and discrimination in the game it follows a number of incidents of races chanting and abuse and to players coaches and fans in recent weeks the F.A. English Football League Premier League players representatives and groups such as stonewall and kick it out will be invited tonight's Newport County will be looking for another F.A. Cup shock as they take on Middlesbrough at Rodney Parade in their 4th round replay the winner will host Premier League champions Manchester City but new ports manager Michael Flynn isn't thinking about that prospect yet this could end up like bowls I believe special problems like where you could have one it might be one of them used back and carried away should a boat floating off and you end up with a rabbit thinking I'm not thinking about it one bit not a chance I've got too much respect for Tony Pulis too much respect for Middlesbrough football club and I'm not an idiot all I'm thinking about is Middlesbrough will have commentary here on 5 live along with updates from Shrewsbury Town it was Q.P.R. Against Portsmouth and lead to. Side bonnets Brant 3rd holders Chelsea will face Arsenal in the 5th round of the women's F.A. Cup in a repeat of the $2800.00 final the full draw can be found on the B.B.C. Sport website an app Craig Brathwaite will captain the West Indies in the final Test against England instant Lucia following the suspension of Jason holder Holder is banned following his side slow overrates in the 2nd test a decision England Bowl the mark would admits is harsh to win in 3 D. Is to be penalised for it and he could get more of us involved thing it's like Bihar such as my personal opinion but I know from if it was flipped around a release quite strict I'll get a make sure we get all of us in and get us from so a source the book says chemo Paul has been called up as a replacement for holder and England and Line star Elliott Daly has triggered a release clause in his contract and will leave wasps at the end of the season and that's the latest from B.B.C. Sport was just for a car to see a potential. LOOK SO GOOD to cook so I could hear the. Relentless a crucifix as you. Can See face Middlesbrough B.B.C. Radio. 2 1st phone use in the past like school this is B.B.C. 5 Live. With Raj Shah member of remedied by amnesia shows Michael Caine and a very good G.Q. Piece from 2010 and most surprisingly of all Kurt Cobain time no for a game on which this week takes a decidedly gothic turn. Hello this is game on and I'm Adam rasa this week we turn our attentions to the dark the eldritch things which might get stuck there in the darkness a game that mentions the word glister of course is rare and unusual that game being sunless skies this is the way it introduces self. It is the dawn of the 20th century and the British Empire has taken to the stars as the captain of a spacefaring locomotive will behold wonders and battle cosmic abominations in the heavens the stars are alive they are the judgments vast intelligences the govern all things but they are dying one by one something is snuffing them out leaving their thrones empty unfettered by trivial things like gravity the Empire's ambition is savage they have built a new sun. The Empress reigns from the throne of ours which gives her control over time your captain and crew must carve out life between the stars who support her majesty in the establishment or the working class rebels who yearn for freedom from the work world learn who you are in the dark die and leave the world the way you want it for your successor that's not at all darkly foreboding is it Ed when you look to this one for your A game or Mr Evans the well and what did you find how did it how to did people to you did it appeal to you it did to appeal to me an awful lot I was just listening to the my introduction you just go you've been reflecting like where else would you have up here a combination of words just need intro to or any kind of reason you are non-game it's amazing I mean again it's kind of similar to the norm and I who played some of the seed of previous game from the other better but it was a similar formats in practice which is the kind of your on the one hand you've got guiding it all locomotive shit around on this kind of plane going from port to port in the training of the things you need and on the other hand this is going to choose your own adventure element where each port of all these stories which are presented as kind of you know very tersely written slabs of. TEXT And you have the option of kind of wending your way through them and you can test your cat unembarrassed ways and they will have multiple outcomes and most of those outcomes are bad but they are all interesting it's one of those games were when things go wrong that's often actually right way by the game I mean like a classic example of that is when you're exploring and you run out of food and fuel for your ship and your crew is stranded and left in the cold of the high wilderness as the game calls space and horrible that kind of like many stories start on cold which may involve cannibalism on the one hand in mind all hell breaks hysteria and divine visitations and diabolical hallucinations but yeah it's never it's never a boring game help put it that way one of the things I like most about it is the way that it throws a little bit of text onto the screen as something happens in the background in the in the engine of your engine if we call it that it will pop up with maybe the 21st whatever it is short rations today as we open as we broach the last box of supplies very few games you hear the word brooch being thrown around very few games we use would glisters which is why I picked up on it for the for the intro it's arcane it's archaic the does it feel up to the moment or is it fail better exploring a universe that they very successfully sketched out in full in London and in some of the cities is a steampunk game I suppose you could say broadly we're going to point out Scott the color of think on the website and like a lot of steampunk it's this kind of mixture of anachronistic and throwback like it's about the 19th century it's kind of guiltily in love with the excess of Empire the British Empire spreading across the globe but then on the other hand it has this kind of strong progressive element which comes across in particularly the can a personalities of your officers on the ship there are all these kind of different people who she was a quick of a broader range of people essentially than you would get in a story that is more directly set in the 19th century all. You know a story of that era there are lots of non-binary people lots of people many different sections of them orientations and so the kind of level it's assuring a kind of a set of stories that are almost antagonistic to the overall universe it weaves around it if you want to Damon's turn or other demons signallers I think I picked one up by accident on a very early mission early port mission is it that's kind of the wrong word and only part of my narrative I accidently pressed a button and hired someone for a 100 gold when I should have been buying seeds to trade somewhere else it uses the classic W A S D and various other keys set up but it is deceptively simple isn't it I mean is that is that part of the alert that I can press a button and Hieron somebody on to my ship who who then opens up a whole narrative thread or or ends up eating me out of house and home literally until of course he might be conceived self if you say the basic mechanics of controlling the ship are quite familiar to a lot of people your mates using need W.S.D. Controls to move around on this T.V. Backdrop and then the stories themselves it's just kind of you're clicking on options and some of the options kind of roleplaying game element to them you're basically rolling by the dice against one of your Captain skills and you're going for skills which are going to correspond to things like charisma and perceptiveness and so you know you might cause excessively or unsuccessfully so that kind of layer is straightforward although it can be hard to see it as straightforward as I guess if you just look at a screenshot of the interface because it is quite a rogue but within that there's a whole I mean the complexity of it is all in all how all of the little narratives within it's combine or don't combine the way different parts of the kind of universe can she usually gets cause most of them sketched out kind of come into focus in implications you follow up on Issue kind of issue was seen like initially straightforward quest lines so yeah it's I mean I wouldn't say it's an easy game to get into I think like it's not very much it's very much an. Kind of easy to pick up hard to master formula it is a weird arcane game but on some level it's quite straightforward in the media and so yeah but it does have its roots in fall in London which is 10 years old now I mean that's rather terrifying isn't it to feel better have been looking at this universe and exploring it for 10 years over 3 games yes and it's interesting to follow how that affects the writing was for London was a play Brown is still going obviously in a free to play browser game with a kind of energy mechanic who sort of added to it quite soon after launch I think where essentially you get a certain number of actions every day it's a kind of like a process that might be familiar to people from some of the early Facebook games but as a game that was designed to be played in shorter bursts for London has a more sort of sparing I would say even more elusive literary style whereas some skies feels like they are kind of stretching out a bit and kind of getting into more of a traditional so short story flow as more kind of room for kind of extended description it's still a very can concisely written game in places but it's kind of is more space to kind of wallow in I guess in terms of the writing over those over those years I am imagining that the people who played fall in London then went to some of this and then to sunless guys they have. A very carefully built and worked with their audience I think. Followed the kind of the conversations that they've had with their community in depth but you know they've always been very close to necessarily very close to the people who play the games if you're you know making a free trade game which will in London is you know that requires a constant attentiveness in a way that's making a game which you're just going to put out more go and so on shelves there they're increasingly rare quantity those those kinds of games now but yeah you can going to get away with treating It's more foreign to get ones for London they have to kind of stay in Cima to converse with the community and what they were doing. And you know that's followed through in terms of the sea which was sold as more a kind of an all in one product but which had a bunch of different expansions and revisions it's got a top survival game so he required a lot of updating as they went on and you are expect to see the same themes under skies not least because the universe they've constructed is so full of intrigue thirds you're going to get no end of relatives friends fall in threads talking about the particular kind of more points are left unexplained like I mean the fate of the sums is in some in the commands a lot of conversation prompts something you mention in your introduction so you know it's there if you're interested in what it's like to work closely with your community and they are good people to speak to you yeah well it. Was so neat because I met admires the deputy C.E.O. And finance director or file better at the front and serious festival in Bow bow and I asked him if he felt that the player community the company had built were an integral part of the game making process for them yes that's right and that's why we tend to launch our games in something called the access program where we start distributing our games before they're finished and then develop them in partnership with the community but the problem with the earlier Access is it can become an almost infinitely long process that's one of the old things about the market at the moment or about making games at the moment it never seems to be a process that begins and ends it seems to be a process that has begun and possibly finishes at some point yet to be decided yes there are a lot of different models that are kind of also quite similar at the same time so for instance there's what you could call maybe the paradox model after Paradox Interactive big company in Sweden where they release a game and they do easily access but then they go on to develop it for up to 6 more years that's how long they've been there I think he said of things to which I think is had over a dozen expansion packs now and they'll fill out a mix of free and paid updates and the games are always evolving. That's a bit of an extreme example but it's very common even for games that if you know the access to continue putting forward some updates for a while after release it's because of digital distribution and makes it very easy to do that and also because Fendi companies at least we care a lot about engaging with up to as this needs what that's telling us and trying to sort of surprise and delight them you've had a lot of success with fall in London and with sunless seasoned sunless guys now they are games in a certain sort of mode are you looking to change what you're doing or are you looking to refine the processes that underpin those going and where does Phobos to go I would say they're actually games in 2 different nights for the London is a game you play in a web or as a for free or you can via the Chanel stories and besides the interactive story it doesn't really have much separate gameplay it's on the sea and on the sky is definitely quite similar one of them you are standing around and on the ground. Traversing a Victorian conception of the happens we probably write make another game that's similar very similar to those 2 at least for quite a while but there's one thing that will free games having common which is complex storytelling with a lot of choice and consequence and that's something that we want to keep doing that's what people expect from us and what we enjoy and also an area is really exciting because there's so much room for innovation there's a lot of room for innovation inside the why is the games tell stories yes a tremendous amount because the techniques for telling a linear story have been developed over centuries and we know about a large amount of out there and there's a lot of promise here for us to draw on for inspiration but interactivity is its own type of literary device and video games have only been a significant cultural phenomenon for maybe 20 or 30 years and often they've been an ambitious and storytelling terms so it's a really new field where innovating in the types of techniques that are available for telling good compelling interesting stories with deep themes as you were talking about that I was thinking Homer's. Poems were not written down until much later on they were not concretized until later and we're not sure if Homer even existed but we're not sure if the alpha Homer was telling that story or a version of that story Shakespeare's plays weren't printed in his lifetime from Memphis my memory and we know that the price scripts evolved and changed between performances and definitely between companies so this idea that a story is something that's concrete and Linea and only exists in one form is kind of the post Gutenberg period is and now we're post post Gothenburg or we and the storytelling spaces that you're looking are in the Who's flexible spaces now that we have the over merged Yes very much say I don't use that sort of audiences for the American attics or for Shakespeare they get one of the asian of the story each time of course if they saw if they had the same tale twice it would be different perhaps or maybe nots Levenson interesting studies of ethics poetry and the not demonic devices that have poets and performers used to write keep them in their memories and they seem to be able to at least instead of contemporary cultures which maintain that sort of tradition recite them unchanged what I guess we're interested in doing is providing stories that are unique on every talent every individual or where you don't simply get a narrative that has been mapped out from start to finish for you by a writer but one that is responsive to what you do and it's in that provide something that is perhaps a combination of pre-meditated sneer at even anecdotes as collaborative it's kind it's collaborative storytelling between the the makers of the game and the individual and but the game is kind of a black box liar as we used to have an I.O.I. You can't really know what's going to happen inside it so outcomes are to a greater or lesser extent not really predictable yes to an extent you can often anticipate the rough shape of the experiences the game off. And you have to in order to be able to make a good game have some sense of that but it can be a statistical sense and sometimes there are possibilities that are effective that surprise you and it can be really interesting as a result to listen to people's stories after they've lied or is more common now to watch them streaming it's on twitch and I can definitely be surprise as one of the great strengths know you we might be able to answer this for me one of the great strengths of having a Games Master or a real human in the room when you were playing a role playing game was you could throw any number of curve balls at this creature and if they were good they would really pick the take because of all and actually follow it and run with it and you don't know with the completely off the page no idea of where you're going sort of moment which is the most storytelling moment that you really remember the moment really lives with you do you find yourself or do you find players reporting to you that they are having those kinds of moments with the games that you're making and can you see that happening more often as the technologies evolve as you were approaches evolve that's a really really interesting question say the difficulty of a lot of video games have is that video game design is based around the actions that task can take and in most video games implementing a new There is expensive and because maybe your game is free day you've got to do all the arts the animations the physics think about weird situations like you've got your point seen the Cannick what happens if you mix it with the make mechanic for more than the explosions because of a lot a lot of the gameplay in our games is rendered in text it's much cheaper for us to provide new verbs if we needed to maybe if we want to have it which is playing cricket with the rats that have infested your lodgings we don't have to implement cricket physics he see what I made but various an additional layer of work we still have to do we've got because we can't be sitting there and writing their sponsors as the player tell us what they want to do we've got to anticipate what they want to do which can be a lot of fun for us and we have a lot of fun for that particular when they didn't seriously think. Dissipated what they want to do and then they find yes it's that as an option it's kind of key to us that with as expected choices we often give them free and also we try not to overlook the things that they would expect to be able to do although we do sometimes and then hopefully they we find out suppress it because they tell us and then maybe as in one of those free updates. It's the finding that they've put through into Scribble Nauts kind of moment isn't it now is it easier to sell that kind of product that kind of idea to an audience or is it the fact that the moment there's a small part of the audience that wants it but the audience you can reach is that bit bigger now that it makes economic sense what we do definitely isn't for everyone there definitely a lot of people playing games and indeed independent video games who wouldn't be that keen on the types of games we like but we've shown that there is a large audience of hundreds of thousands perhaps more and we think that some of the things that have deterred people in the past we've seen the sea for instance have not really been called to the style of the game itself but rather some of that interview and silly Riyad of its so in sun the sky is our aim has been to keep the best parts of on the sea and make them more accessible to people by putting them in about a set of sisterly systems adding difficulty settings that let people with a wider range of skills or even disabilities potentially get the same intended experience improving the user interface providing a better combat system that sort of thing I don't think will reach the sorts of audiences that AAA games can reach but equally we can enjoy the fact we're not as constrained in our design solutions by the need to sell to quite that many people well that was out of miles from file better games so what about early access Edwin I mean for a game like this and for a team of the size of better and they were there only a real handful of people making these games and obviously that the writing talent they might get in from elsewhere but it's a real small core only X. Is makes sense for these for a team of that size doesn't it because they are going to be leveraging their audience too to help them make the game are it's always a bit of a question as to how you manage production scale during your early access I think about spoken to a number of developers who were made early access games one of them was some Nautica snork it's a much the under water and survival game and I think for years now only access and why. Working out when to expand the team when to kind of you know keep to the same core team when to bring in the freelancers is a bit of a struggle and I couldn't speak to the intricacies of what they've been through but but yeah I think that there are very good job with the other thing that they've done very well with freelancers is that they just brought in I mean the best of the particular Twitter thread that I think it was Chris Gardner Well better recently put up talking about some of the consult with some of their freelance writers not pre-announce writers to work comp to hear stories within the game but 3000000 people to talk about different aspects of the universe many said that amongst other things they talked about the colonialism aspect because obviously again this is a game set in the. Victorian era which is very much about empire and so looking about from the point of view of people who are you know not the kind of like Mom not for instance white British men it was important to them and yeah I mean on a common particular thread but it's not the only worth looking up because yeah I think you can really see the strengths of that lineup of voices in the writing and the kind of the way that it keeps a certain identity but also as you know this kind of real range of perspectives with the Victorian era of the pseudo Victorian era I mean it's something that we've seen explored in in fictions a number of times I think Bill Gibson went there with the Difference Engine with Sterling alongside him in that book of 2 homes which talked about this of the working class is trying to sow gaining ground against against their betters in an age when computers the Babbage engine the 2nd Babbage engine were actually were a reality we thought Philip Reeves took on in the young adult series The lock was a trilogy which was very peculiar I had the idea of was like this like the ether was out there in space and you could you could fly around I think it had was it is actually a house with an engine fueled by the Chemical Wedding The thing that's come up by and I think that was it neatly made it work and back in the. 17th century why do you think people go back back back to the Victorian period is it because we think we know it and we think we understand most tropes that we think we can bend it it's it's a kind of a shared point that a lot of different cultures can can address and then take what they want from it I think it depends which which kind of audience or which kind of set of creative you're talking about me talking about going to British people it's obviously has a huge kind of it's a huge component of their own core it's great British cultural identity in the sense that you know you have Dickins you have any number of the great novelists in that area you create a kind of foundation of stories that people go back to and you know lots of nations are defined by understand Binah Star Ledger and Britain is no different and this kind of idea of the height of empire is obviously very appealing to a lot of people went into thinking about the status of Britain today I guess so yeah there's a thing of people go back to it and perhaps see that period in quite reductive terms as kind of a golden age that's in terms of the new technology the spirit the kind of social values is something we need to get back to but a lot of people go back to it and see opportunities to reroute cultural power and turn it to a different purpose and that's where you get projects like some of the skies which on the one hand have a very strong foothold in I can understand what elements need to look at the everything from the kind of the way the menus the designs the cost the nature of the counterassault through to the language the way that it's the games kind of cesspit with different kinds of alcohol and tea and you can apply quaint mannerisms but then it also again has a strong kind of layer of characters people and stories within it that's all explicitly compressive and also contained quite Not directly but quite quite knowing about things within Britain in the past few years I would say I mean there are a couple of breaks of jokes in there saying. It gets everywhere it's speaks it under the under the most successful of Watch is why I found most interesting about your review for you're a gamer Edwin was that it was engaging with the kind of the poetry of this piece with the narrative poetry with the visual poetry of it there's a something about that that's a shorthand that comes with poetry and there that kind of getting ideas across in very simple seemingly very simple very direct kinds of ways but also cutting against you know to have those undercurrents this is a game all about the appearance and the undercurrent isn't it I mean does it explore that space successfully if they did it again would they have to make it bigger would they have to do something different or could they keep making these kinds of games I don't think they will might that I think of I would hope that in the sense that what you wrenching the kind of poetry or the poetic aspects of the game I mean as I would interpret they were better as a studio is a collection of writers and the people who work with them they have a wonderful sense of how compactness can be a virtue and you could say that one of the qualities of poetry is just its compactness it puts across ideas in a very concise way and but also in a way where there is an intense ambiguity the center of you know even in a seemingly innocent phrase I guess I mean if I'm going to go off on one of I'm not careful but I think a lot of people when they talk about poetry they basically mean flowery descriptive writing poems to be clear I love Florida script writing I'm you know I watch a lot of it myself and I probably could do with a kind down in it but when I think of poetry I think of more of the kind of nurturing of ambiguities and the tensions within one which is kind of putting across in a very small space and time and that's something that I think you know about his work in general does very well I mean they're kind of from no sketches of characters are always amazingly a box of I mean you mentioned demon you hire one of the ports he's called repentant devil which kind of arrived there so I was you know awful as a whole you know huge debts that kind of. Implications of the epithet attached to him. As to when whether they would be able to carry on doing what they would carry on doing now I can see when the reason why they would stall I think they have a good audience. She used to kind of wait literary complexity to a different kind of game maybe the Naval survival C.M. Is getting old. The founder of what we call promissory Alexa's Kennedy moved on a few years ago but Paul I think after some of the scholars have begun development . He's created a couple of games which are the same kind of. Sort of the same sort of style but a very very different underlying set mechanics so you know who knows maybe that we're going to do something similar absolutely interesting almost immediately after I'd spoken to Adam at the fans who is 1st of all I was going crossed this and his partner about their new game about cultist simulators and yes and that was very good to talk to the 2 of the most in the same sort of time frame was very very interesting to talk about whether we're going different directions alas I can't play both of those interviews today so it would Evans thank you very much for coming on. I do apologize. It's been lovely to have you on thank you very much. And thank you very much for right to be such a lovely with you thank you thank you very much. For news. Seriously or anyone else this C.B.C. 5 La Fave It's 4 o'clock B.B.C. News and I would drop him a Clarke the main news on 5 Live claims local council spaces 3000000000 pounds funding gap in sports Liverpool missed the chance to go 5 points clear at the top of the Premier League after drawing at West Ham This is B.B.C. 5. M.P.'s will debate how much councils in England will have to spend in the next financial year later ministers. Say local authorities have been given hundreds of millions of pounds in additional funding but the Local Government Association claims they're facing a 3300000000 pounds shortfall our social affairs correspondent is Michael Buchanan and the cuts to council funding next year are not actually as steep as the government wants planned ministers are found an additional $1600000000.00 pounds that includes $650000000.00 pounds for social care and $420000000.00 pounds to improve roads but it still means that overall council budgets will be smaller at Sid and investigators say they'll consult the families of a 1000000 Osama and pilots David Abbott's and before deciding what to do with the wreckage of the plane they are called was found off the guns he Coast more than 60 metres underwater Graeme Braithwaite is a professor of safety and accident investigation at Cranfield University of America is actually quite delicate when he Phillips but wept.