These dots this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. Sounds. The weather is going to be a largely draw and not for most read lengthy clear spells unlike winds there will be missed and fog which could be dense in the Midlands and it'll turn cold across many areas with widespread post later in the morning the mist and fog will be slow to lift but most Irish should see some sunshine eventually on b.b.c. One this is an opportunity of a long shot presuming a spike in a nutshell thinking I should make an absolute on the prize I've got a back a very big decision are going to decide which one of the year is going to with 2 160000 pounds in the past this is one vision. This is your last Trinity to convince me it should be here The Apprentice defined on Wednesday night at 9 am on b.b.c. One this is b.b.c. 5 live play level on the b.b.c. Sounds I would sell a private. Club savvier company as always the Reverend Darren Howie has an unusual background for a man of the cloth he was raised on a council estate in the west coast of Scotland stall to to use drugs when he was about 11 or 12 became a drug data and then a heroin addict a thief and a convicted criminal he has since gone on to become a pioneer priest for the Anglican Church in light of the Methodist church from his city center position in reference Darren how he ministers to prisoners the harmless to people with substance abuse issues and he sets up a coffee company run by x. Criminals right top school site cred Bain was spotted today up again by asking him to describe his early childhood on a should say you might find some of his story distressing or so I was brought up a Narcanon a rough conventional stay on the west coast of Scotland on this cannot enter. Just to. Run about most sniffing glue a solvent sort of thing in the eighty's and early ninety's and stuck in a knot still probation George Wright famous oaf Tryfan try connect and try feel something. And. Began and just kind of snowballed Rafer Weigel by him and what with a theory that hollow mothers are single parent my dad was a guy who loved the fuse street few doors down. And and well known guy and so I didn't even know my dad growing up a mom was trying to bash Stacy deafen and she different man on she just make ends meet walkin looking after the kids was quite difficult for ha we were just left to wonder really and people just give it and. If range so they're going to think what was that what was the area like of employment prospects for people have is really good to be honest and then but I mean when I left school wide there was lots of opportunities and ships back in the day involved in Didn't White Ts. And early on. Take steroids was massive the computer industry was just beginning to take off but these things began to go so I mean employment. So I got a job Kohan from harm but about him I was I was already beginning to take some of the hop up from Jamie so a of a job aha that couldn't really hold right you know a bit up in the toilets smoke and don't put the parchment can do for the bench they inject heroin Well there are other members of your family using drugs down and yeah mop up more or less my whole family. I'm not community people just that is that is great but at the same Israel also a lot of people taken part in drugs and them not it's not me and them I think the part I don't take down famine l.s.d. . But I am just as she became a heroin addict long before meat your tea she had she lost a child and it just basically destroyed oh you know she'd taken him home is the only thing that can numb the pain and she was beginning to take crack cocaine and and so many opposed to what was dying and eventually a try tried heroin and I was like well this is why people think must of you no more getting so I can see this State family of the state of the world just people and significance if he took us a stroke in the sleep he dropped in court will you tell us if what you've been hailed. And you know obviously it can only gentil function and security you know we give you good you realize you know that I didn't even know was that he thought the flu and am and get all of it and give me hair when she said you know if he takes it you're probably Rollin you know you've been thrown all up and been taken after for a few weeks and she took some and like a really bad case in a fledgling me instantly was like wow look I'm going to be taken as the for the testimony. That was you can and again. And as you say you still today early on with with solvents kind of on street corners it was a I remember the headlines and the idea is more about glue sniffing tape Neiges Yeah that was kind of the thing was that on street corners Yeah and. You see you took l.s.d. For example when you would just 12 years old I'm pretty terrifying Yeah people experiment real Shore's Oh I was one of those stupid you know back in a day via you know all my friends my cousins not all taken drugs I was always want to take more and I would take coke tubes Israel saw I just had to say extreme personality actually. But I would I just had to take on and I suppose a system spoke of aggression take up to rescue myself with watch more things but I've always been about us they come about to show off so I was always taken you know shipments of drugs from a very young age to want to be taken l.s.d. And to speed to know shots to get off to I mean see about being self destructive just to just genuinely didn't care yeah think actually him I think I just wanted to I wanted to be one and I wanted people to relate mean I do that stand and get clad So I mean reputation as a master thing because you grow up and quit this functional family household and you don't get that love and that security needs from you have left. Behave the knobs and follow the base but she didn't in doing she never really been sure and so she couldn't sure so users ek of the media and from a pos and completely older guys you know I was always on when I want to be buddies guys because they've had no issue important not me. And not realizing that it's just a lie that you buy into it you know I mean. From your town and your lofty very much about Paul t. Drugs and having a good time that's means an annex to c. And all of that. B. And everybody in the community be announce it particularly the weekends How did it might the big switch to to so many people yourself new sister included doing heroin and becoming addicted to Amboise thing us 2 things I think nature of not just you know I think some of us are born but more predisposed to take to be affected but also I think the coach that you're born until there's no help you don't mean me no the aspiration is gold and families are broken down into all of the laws of friendship to drugs. But none of them became heroin addicts you know that it took part in drugs and it disabled down in the family and kids in and of the enemy and life but I am I was used I think I was just always p. Disposed of as an alcoholic so I don't think I helped me so genetically I may have been some was in the air but I think oh she'll just know have enough a father figure actually was probably the biggest to my take no I didn't know the button can buy can see the profession the traumatic for me much how important as the that men have me a little models pushed of me. Didn't you be a follower proposed to me Will models and obviously fall was a good example and I never had done so it was always going to be for me you know I needed to go and feigned and valued night except into that perhaps mess and from not can add Aleutian ships' make sense to do regrets. Taking drugs. While I. Was a Ph d. Enough. I. It was profoundly painful. Was. The heart because the people saw the great Quincy cream cheese regret some of their some of the effects. And fail you know of those people the heart and the. People the us the home and potentially mama you know all. Heart Heart and the mom. You know why she survived that the most I get up in the same stands you know I wouldn't be today after that and I must say in that you know that was a sanctuary for the me becoming the person I bought as give me the most nothings we steeply from Lafayette point of you you know we would see that and go as economy nothing's we stayed the pasta the pasta can be deemed you know and read actually ma ma life's experience and could Nitro long as it's been put to us so to speak sort of quite a green cheese but is it tame as amazing how. Many of you know last week Christmas to us for that Christmas story is all about I know it's about a really dark situation but something but I something hopeful commented on I think stories can be the. What do you put your mom through and if your son's mother and they rolled off you know maybe that was you know what. As other although she did us a b.b.c. Radio book as late tonight but you know I deliberately unit myself to manipulate my mom and say oh no I can't control my block and you need to give me 10 tones and she would be totally distraught watching my son did the trick that she did to disco for the force the force Peter she does on issues she never run a course up they don't see a sudden become That's a person who would you to me is going to was and she would give me money you know I mean totally awake manipulated off for years and years and years that was once at such a minute but I drove 8 miles on a break with a job to steal my son's piggy bank my 8 year old son's piggy bank because the detection of it was so desperate almost a few to get it we had one it can't do with the shame so the only thing it takes me to see him so the more you take it the more things you have to do in minimal because you don't and I've wept over the us these kind of things you know and I tend to forget myself and realize it was the addiction you know I am I'm not an inherently bad evil person I was just that that to drugs and they try to destroy my way for everybody a last cry motional talking about it to be honest I'm sure is you know that these holds things to say to somebody that you've never spoken to before so appreciate you being extremely honest with me about about what it was like for you. You went from somebody who was using drugs to to supplying them well so yeah how did that happen if not throw that on a run of it or some some boys have a great well known gentlemen and made money made it paid for it paid for out of a drugstore I mean and them. And eventually had a run or run off the hole and that's what I got introduced to crack I actually saw a can of sailing cannabis in the neck this you know or the party drugs and I just. Basically rolled the deal done I don't want to hold and and meant I was the going to use to clock in that was Cannot the end of the beginning mean and I means to speckle really unattached sale and drug state funded and you know in population the bottom line is that you would psyching you would think because these were serious people the drug dealers for example Yeah well you know I that you were the guy that you ripped off yeah and this bit of the whole and real rounded real so was on the day I watched the drugs so I went I went to Mrs pm I went to many reforms you don't need to go as a bio for so much and he gave me a whole stock of dogs and the money that was made government is the well he did me I did it I don and I and hard to come back to Scotland and face this guy which is a medically you know stop me and then me because he has above abt. Yeah so I when you went to prison what was that full. Prison crapshoot things mainly drug related offenses a couple of violent offenses nothing to nothing to C.D.'s and money. One of the longest and she's Because I don't know why because a I began to change my life and I was out of rehab and I still had court cases to go for so I made some significant decision to change my life and because I think it does just raise there's no point in saying need to present because you know today the. Program and the medication she says the book I. Mean literally given she's. I mean what was life like in prison presumably you go you go I says to drugs in prison. But I went to to visit the mills more drugs on present in the dozen and the Khamenei to be honest in the prisons no less bought most of those bonds have a presence called and she read them so she recovered as if you know me and she would come and meet me in dog zone and we'd have a ball on the wings and they had to present present presents not tough but it doesn't change you know I mean it's not that they don't rehabilitate you proper and so those are people going for. The ball it's somebody to come see you while you would that that that that things. Yes Walker said well there's a prison sentence I was in prison for a claim and then they came out. On them so. I'd go off with claims that should I went to prison for but stay mum as a prison for my claim other than come out on the present chaplain and I called me. Up to Scotland I still came into must see a lot of sex now if they want to say inject it all in and I'm manic and birth to my Palm and heroin and just anything to any show is crap the best point must be a close contact my son needs to he told me I'm going to show for the 3 or 4 weeks previous My mum had dust on me and used to walk from all day totally ashamed and so I was on us presidency when it was the last point and and I mean boss Holden. And mom and Micio like it like something had to grab my heart leap it was obviously the pain of our experienced emotional pain and I and I wept myself to sleep next moment and the door opens and there's us pressing chaplain we had the caller on and he just looked at me and said thank you and you know you're probably going to die be really feel. If you look at much lower left because they would you like some hope. And I think she's that appointment on approach of life had gone. Sky command. The Olivia can rationalize in terms of my faith as God came to me God gave to me a new piece of a human being. And there and he told me it doesn't have to be late us it doesn't have to be let us you know you if you believe those lice and the ones a smart kid always as much a join of the allies that you go for school and people to steal your ship and that and in. Believed he believed and that gave me a lot of hope and he felt an obligation phone for a question drug rehabilitation program and he pushed it up for me because he knew the pool of and have done it and they in the ball rolling not was the beginning for hope you know and not what I would hope has been stolen from most people but I am who came to me and say it doesn't have to be let us another life and all of these possible and in the shoes he was it was the start but it was a lone rocky ride for you Darren when you went when you went into the Christian rehab How did it work out the was Ok and at that quail and left prematurely and got plugged in to look which option. I went back to my hometown and my family still doing the same stuff mom and mold me it was so doing the same stuff so when you have a bad day is people do in life you know as a lot easier to just. Living in and be off of drugs than as if you don't live in this state that you brought up and saw creativity quickly assaulted taken drugs again and basically I was at college and walking for the challenge and interest because the school and. Everything and. Lost a lot told they lost the law on them they. Soon as a began to just disappear. The website made to go and see a need to get me to get help and I'm moved to be there so with. The same old. That went before but I definitely have a definite place and and thought and I can go back to school the need to rebuild everything from here when you had to go. See how do you see your mom like I am a homeless from the homes of the protesters the thing I like most people in my people still proud of me when I was doing amazing. But she began to slump and I think she is an interesting thing we don't leave enough space for people to feel would make mistakes and I think because I hadn't made made a mistake as a definitely not a lobster not be lumps you know I made a mistake I should have been a mistake and then the next the most of all because I thought failed you know you drop so you end up on on back on drugs for 3 months you know leaders are far out and must stay in Egypt I was to make a mistake I was the queen of a drink I'm 32 away powerful I was down a drunk going to wait for the next moment or a few so the very last night I felt really vulnerable and tie up the job and I just need some accountable a bit is no one thing us a failure is just a mistake and I think that was a deference by then. And I didn't have a safe space to go to the top to go to that I could see of the nice because I thought on kill people of the Us was my job Ok to call each. Which perhaps wasn't. And what about you Sunday do you see him when you left prison the one. I don't want to see and I won't. Hold home to you I would hold was there was the gap between you he's 20 secs and they hit him 44. So as a I was 19 when he was born nothing. Oh yeah sure he's a grown man as you all know but yeah everybody bought a lesion chip. And managed to talk through some of this stuff you know I was using some stuff these mothers why you want to take my age they both Yeah yeah and it was really interesting so I got 20 and a baby daughter half a mile. They missed the adoption because I've been involved great from the beginning but my son Julian shipped over b b b talking not as something about key stage of relational development with this who required was a s. Was something he's not messin but some things it's not as I thought them out to get a language for but it just seems to have been a hard nut off and I've met my twins you know or has just as much the from when you went to the wilds then your 2nd stint a very happy Well what was different about that time fully I just think I am broken beyond. Those nothing can and there's no What's to describe. Affeldt like most soul had been ripped and it was shopping for because I've lost everything on both top and most everything other member like a house in that I'm moving house a lost Malaysian she got she minds to ball the House nor the how to chop show how the cat but it was driving to do it and stuff and you know it was love all over the flock had this beautiful man help me take it that I was runnin a drop in center for objects of joy I was taught we called each studying counsellor and you know told. On our last step and I was great cause to Dad we can cause the day must on it's a material gentle talk a week and a good place and it just begun to unravel the responsibility and the pressure to. Maintain us I'm doing create real killer thing yeah being in exactly the same environment you were when you are now the it was little the same people doing the same stuff people are always going to offer you feel drugs. Soul journal when I went back to Teen Challenge just. Am not a member of both of them much but a childhood Muffy if played a massive part because I felt like him I was healed from the n.s.a. The John Wayne lake. They call it to come on to my heart and the chanting. Just love the Bach and the b.n. And in our anthem of myself I actually think that's one of the most important things really because I couldn't love an a but the truly love them and told relate who I was and the truth was you know. Unresolved cim and Betty and de freshers believe measures for us and I went to Cambridge for cosplay and it was to slate. The elephant and here's why out on the arm and of I just thought was of r.p.s. And dollars utterly convinced of the by Pierce not are because I'm doing bad things the quantum of being up and leave the others are by the human being which totally conflicts be what the Christians duties of a because you know you would be a beloved. And God's masterpiece of course love and not that neighbor of you thought for myself even though how the faith and man went to their staying awesome really prefer to spend it to experience he's the sheep me and associate me and those are the things I like to not be and not chapel when that's happened to all of the perfect things I say for example when I was coming off medication but I am out some really believe that it was speed and she's way of the God that we speak of the in the Bible was a God that came and came to be unsafe place to speak deal and an end humane deep deep level and and so all men of my have a team I want to manage to come as a whole because I want to prove myself by walking in doing good things but just to fight them loved by God I mean if we believe the aloft we see the us in children jogging if a child grows up no loft the potential for success can I mean that's what research points to is that the potential for success is key as much chaos and messy seem for questions of people you love by God to be a good question and nothing is fundamental about was the change in. Papa me. Is the Reverend Darren Howie who's been a priest for 10 years now after being a heroin addicts and a drug dealer and in and out of prison for almost 20 years after growing up in a tough part of West Scotlands and dad live in just up the street few doors up but never reeling in knowing him and began to fickle kid in school and kind of being treated accordingly I guess in in those times he was permit excluded from school and sent to a children's home when he was a little bit older and just one thing led to another really but it's quite incredible how he's turned his life around now you will hear in the 2nd part of the interview a guy called Wayne Hey Kalk who somebody else he's had a tough life and made some pretty terrible choices took a lot of drugs sold drugs but again instead of kind of continuing down that spiral has decided to try and do his best and I hope people are going through the same situation as him often Darren took him and so one came out of prison where he was inside for a fairly serious crime and Darren and his wife they have 3 very young children took this convicted criminal into their home for 6 months barely knew him to look at him after him and help rehabilitate him so you hear about their relationship in the 2nd half of the interview but you since 5 live on I'm sorry Brett's I'll be with you through until 1 o'clock show up are talking to doesn't see what's happening on a polite tonight but 1st of all let's get a nice and simple home digital b.b.c. Sound off for the moment this is c.b.c. Radio 5 Live and Tom has had lots of Labor M.P.'s have criticised Jeremy Corbyn after last week's general election defeats Mr Coburn apologized to them at a parliamentary meeting and said he'd only stay on until a new leader is in place while police telling customers with washing machines that could. Be a fire risk that they stay can still be used but only on a cold setting the company's facing new criticism after announcing a massive recall and repair program for vaporing companies of Instagram post ban by the Advertising Standards Authority they showed models and celebrities including Lily Allen holding a cigarette which are not allowed to be advertised on social media and Donald Trump percent an angry letter to the leading us Democrat Nancy Pelosi he accused her of declaring open war on American democracy ahead of today's vote on whether to impeach him over claims he pressured Ukraine to investigate a political valuable Here's the sport now we shop them Aston Villa comfortably be Liverpool's youngest starting line up 5 nil to go through to the semifinals of the e.f.l. Come with average age of 19 and 5 deadbeats and the inexperienced Liverpool side never threaten Dean Smith to probably the weirdest major competition call of all are saying or ever been involved in you know they started really brightly they've got some really technically gifted young players but we were very clinical in what we did and very professional showed a really good attitude there was no win situation a little bit for us apart from get in for the semifinal because everybody expected us to win but we did what we had to do yet in Tampa taken a senior players to cattle for their Club World Cup semifinal against Mexican side Monterrey this evening if they win they'll face Brazil's from a go in the final for the chance to lift a new trophy we don't feel as favorites or whatever we feel is up as a challenger so it would be the 1st time for the country but a club that can win the Club World Cup is that the most important cup competition in the world I don't know when us from all different competitions in a continent we are here to represent Liverpool and Europe the match will be live on b.b.c. 2 from 5 30 pm Pep Guardiola says McCallum Tad's will travel to Oxford today for Manchester City's League Cup quarter final which will be our 5 live commentary much later City coach John Tatar is in talks with his former club Arsenal over their managerial the. They can see well Duncan Ferguson will remain in can take a charge of Everton against Leicester Everton are reportedly continuing to pursue Carlo Ancelotti to become their permanent manager We'll have updates of that match in 5 live sports as well as Manchester United against culture step sorry as the chief executive has apologized for an anti-racism campaign which is received heavy criticism for his use of monkeys on post as Luigi to see ever says he realizes it was inappropriate the former AC Milan an England striker at least the place it is told 5 Live the images just don't make sense it reminds me of him getting the n word to say that it's Ok to use it because we're trying that it just doesn't work they completed shows that you know sends out the wrong message just completely about what it's about I think I find it very difficult to really see where they're coming from with that history has been made as fallen Sherrick has become the 1st woman to beat a man at the p.c. World dance championship the 25 year old held her nerve to get a 32 victory over Ted Abbott's in the sun's round Alexandra Palace and says it's one of her best moments as she's made something for women's darts there at the Football Union says talks are continuing with England head coach Eddie Jones over a new contract and they won't rush to extend his deal through to the 2023 World Cup in France he has r.f.u. Chief executive Bill Sweeney as I said in Japan with the conversations are ongoing but they don't stop and start at any particular time to an ongoing dialogue all the way through so we're not looking at the 6 Nations being at a time until that you know we're in the middle of those charts and 7 jockeys who got 10 day bounds for ignoring a flag signal to stop or races some down of the suspensions overturned after appealing That's the latest from b.b.c. Sport and the author of the a Premier League anyone else. Today you can also say go to the Crystal Palace to kill since 3 pm. Only lawyers money at least some they. Used to mention stealing. Shows they say they get a scale say from 4 that say is your fault station and that is the case. This is b.b.c. 5 Live salable on the b.b.c. Sounds with Sarah bright. Bright enough to have your company as always just read the more I read about more the more I read about fallen short the more I'm in love with said this is the woman who has just become the 1st woman to win a match at the championship dulls by coming back from Hans Don Ted Evans 32 does not a buy is with he's going to tell he was happy enough with what she was a 2000 to one shot before the match it's incredible and I'm ashamed I was generally trying to get tickets to see the b.d.c. Or some of it this way this 1st week because this is a way that you can actually get tickets Yankees or gone and it's literally up the road from where I live and I generally try to do when Tyrie go when I heard the sports bulletin I was almost ashamed anger how could you miss this we take these things for granted that's the problem you know if I was in a different country didn't have all these amazing Totemism have been there and I'm really really gutted to be honest and proud of really proud of on behalf of all of us men and women by the way because these are the kind of tools that need to be overcome and broken down I always wondered why are there women in you know top ranking women in darts and Snoop and sons also aren't necessarily about physical advantage and this maybe maybe you have maybe a bit of a turning point Hope said I sense a smash hit what have you got coming up well something but turning point for the church the Catholic Church glasnost seems to have arrived there with Pope Francis saying that he's going to end where they call pontifical secrecy so secrecy around sexual abuse within the church regarding clerics and otherwise so interesting to follow that one will be having a cold sober. Debate about at the beginning the program but also will have the news from the Balkans where British runner is there the moment on her long marathon journey or many marathon journeys to Mongolia and this is all to highlight you know sustainability in climate change and the like and we've got an Australian hour and this is really going to be quite an interesting week it's a perfect time to have a imperfect I'm sad because Australia is expected to reach record highs in terms of temperature this week maybe any time from now to the point where we open up our phone lines for Australia now in the next couple of hours say it could be temperatures up to 50 degrees Centigrade if you can imagine that you're used to that kind of thing you'll Yeah yeah unless guys to volunteer. To. Fight plague I was thinking more about your suggestions to Zimbabwe they are is good so kids who've. Been in the white back home tonight don't not by coming up at 1 o'clock with up all night let us return to the story over Reverend down down have a man who went from drug dealer to priest he started out dealing heroin he was a thief he was a convict he's now upon a priest. Prison is druggies and Himes people he tells me about some of the things that he's tried to do to help parishioners in city center so unlucky on my previous job as a pipe but called a Piute could it for a church and say cynical Chimpy as church did you know that when watchfulness and then and so when I came they are and I was given a specific goal to trying new things I saw that said obvious Ha I was over overwhelmed by the whole missions struggle she's been there and to get. Mom by space and. Trucks so is Ray on this a set and you know you had to get walking in one day you'd have to ask people to call to get the door so I can charge so they did a few things they also assailed and opens. Yes we have people could come and am used to feed the homeless but we thought as bell to get along say there was a tables in the what he's And I think some things were good it didn't before them and try to do stuff with them sold with other dolphins in a damned table talk the self I mean to them program and say don't so the whole idea that people get work takes place in prison people peacefully say because of a disconnection you show yourself as mental program code and say Dave because it's about if you change he can facilitate change in the end say that a person when he got the mental help to any of my she change who they feel about themselves and. They will fail in the job they will they will hold down a job you don't mean and that they're better people who have supported over the years who you eat and give much over though just ruin aren't written tons of hopes and and so he said he said I was at c.b.s. Has moved me for this judge. Of my way through me and on a community house coaches on always with hosts and named joining. And basically she was a woman who believed in education and lamb and am and hospitality and compassion and she and so of the who's who you run is named off the hog and at Savannah say Santa have a drop and Santa from have been in the night Shotover they can come along and save space where they can and do the washing of a show off and you can do some practical stuff for them away from Susy's out on the coast in company and Bain Yes and I'm so taken to see it as a metaphor because you know we can be seeds of good potential in a few how you manipulate us. Or detainment of potential comes a little horrible of the Southerners as to and it's just like people you know if you're if you create the right now vitamin a few a few them not seed in the rate we then you will be. The potential. And I suppose so much potential and late people with so much potential and so my wife and I have been involved not going to walk for a long take no more focused simpy of when to move to be and in oversea again. Hamsters on a raise the hopes so yeah just try the community if you can go get community and date people on a journey then it's just a bit and if you can if you can and need more facility s.p.c. It appears and if usually the more than real they can call interview and they're not ashamed of their belief in themselves you know and that will lead to feel the actual best guess and can feel when it's Ok I was with God I still need still hold together when you menace to heroin other people on member. How often do you see yourself in these crawl on the table Yeah. But it to flate By can take him back to someone who is despicable moments when I am gentle Dylan sat on a box of it haven't really been carried me no. It has been crash occasions the edge it is and not a thing for an addict you know I'm only 2 steps away from what my wife died the more Joe Main boff was the child of something John mean I'm a mother and no something to save it is a bunch that one step away from the what that should and of people don't realize up when been some is coming up with action $2.00 is more of some basic starts to evolve it makes the few things but if I start to leave it I'm leak. As Sam I said then this at the end it is what I will have others there in that direction recovery is a horrible thing because you never get out of it I don't you know you know why do you spend months of probably trying to help individual drug addicts you can always help them to trust be very All you can always help them and the money think you probably have been talk of it a minute when you speak of as you know late great being the how it came to drop and send off and and could see that he wanted to help himself. So I didn't even need to do a lot I just need to be spent now if you create a space for somebody to be afraid Brant and or the potential this and have some people don't want to change so it's more that you don't invest than of a c You just you know you can't force a person to change and you can only create a safe space for the work but were unable even to initiate the change to the one you know and not the thing in a. Plain How did you meet down. Originally. I'm from Birmingham a came into going into rehab in Darby and when I came out of rehab I'd assume that to dominate him about to the same the same see them from often relocations one poll and me which is how I ended up at 7 in Dhabi. Of accommodation in 100 Hostel. Which which was really has been hard at 1st to be honest because it was the $100.00 days and have for. The for the city where the front lawn of everybody should live addiction and vulnerable adults and so forth it was quite hard to say coming out having nothing and then being straight back in the environment is not just come out of rehab. And I remember the rehab that was it was a Christian rehab and I remember seeing a man talks called j John. When he preached as a you need to stay connected with the church so going on that I actually went to the cafe just to see if I could for could volunteer with them just to keep myself surrounded by people of the same pay the same faith and positive people. Who understandably they they was like you can't volunteer head just be just as opposed to the formalities and and how it works in a cafe not educate or not to be honest you know. So they sent me down to St be a church which is how I actually walked in and actually met Darren and I just shared my story of reaction and he just gave me a hug the 1st a moment him. Which was a bit overwhelming instead of as was always go to the expectation because I know even when I became a Christian I was always still wary to tell people must oracular for he's a proper going to think I'm a. Not very nice person is probably the pull of a to pull it so it was a bit doing to Sherry's the fact that when I did somebody just kind of give me a hug and just. Showed compassion really. It was it was a big step for me. What does Christian see k.v.a. Drug skull. It's a big thing for me. A big part my fave is gave me in a piece which is a big thing for me dropping hundreds from 15. Submitted Aaron I've had a bit of a dysfunctional bring in single mom and council estate in Ladywood in Birmingham which is a pretty rough area. Sin my mum's of a domestic violence and so forth and she has outdid she had met the young age of 15 and. She'd say as south of his job bringing up a child. Says that kind of when I grow up for that assume that's what Doris talked about in regards to role models I found I didn't really have nothing against mom she was trying to trying to do the best but then if you haven't got in your house you going to go find it somewhere and in a community dollar lived it was a pretty rough area Birmingham's it was invest based upon role models to be honest . And I suppose growing Got Me personally I think everyone story's going to touch on and similar aspects of it is awful my identity was found in my Everybody else will. And reputation again for me was one of the biggest beings because the more extreme things you did the mores seem people like you. Which obviously was a false or false pretense Anyway it's exactly what Dan said Yeah yeah and it and it yeah and I think I think many people who come from addiction or many people I think even a problem in the world to be fair it is we live in a world not driven by consumerism and materialism so we are all trying to live up to an unrealistic expectation anyway of of what the world says you should be. Which often just puts a massive a massive amount of pressure on anybody because if you know in a standard then you start to feel like a failure which is which opens the doors as shaman and so forth. Yes. Experience homeless from 15 going volved with gangs carrying weapons I actually actually going volved with people at the age of 16 which led me to get to Jamaica city drug importation from Jamaica. Which at the time of the only stuff before was a gangster when I was 16. It really was it was people who took advantage of me. Yes like a very extreme form of county lines yeah yeah yeah I thank you very young royal over there to bring back what was 845000 pounds worth Nasser's 45 case was 100 of a grand just to please Well yeah and to Muncie go buy in of that when I can buy the place a machine guns and if it was a proper proper open I really went to prison after that year I got called he for 4 prison and I think again this stems from like I suppose reputation or sense of belonging is it. They just seem not like head Yeah and you must have thought you were a proper goal of that yeah at the end of it to be honest with the stuff that experience and going for it at the point I didn't I think a. I've experienced so much pain already I didn't really care what happened anyway because I was in a hostel I had nothing I had no family I had nobody and the feeling of relation and truly feeling alone is one of the hardest things I think I've ever had to deal with . You always have a friend in a drug deal when you've got money. So it's not it's not real friendship and I think that the fact that these people which obviously they were just manipulate me at the time Bill at 16 you don't you don't see that but it just seemed they cared and I think I was so desperate for family and just to belong. Wanted to do because if I did he made them happy Can I ask you guys how important family in your lives now because you are by still comparatively young men and I know that that you feel when you that you was off to your c. Or to children on either so how if you made it up to them. So was the family different now as well I think family's important community is important but I don't think you have to be blood relation to be family. Because I've got people in my life now he mean everything to me. And I've got a lot of people in my life now who. Who are truly special because I know they care for me because they care for me not because I want something in return which is a big difference. But I suppose the lessons learned I try to think that that every think is a lesson even if over even if I've learned what not to do and and and frankly I've got the relationship that we my daughters. Are still a speech from a mom of a restore that relationship. I think I just kind of learn a lesson because of the things I went on to do and I made a lot of mistakes and some as a down of her a lot of people and a big part of my faith is it was was about forgiveness and I struggled with because I was like what you mean forgive people there's a lot of people over me and in the deserve to pay and that's that stems again from other young Griese when you go for them traumas it turns into anger and I wanted to make everybody else feel the same way that I felt and which which ultimately just ended up me perpetuating the cycle instead of trying to break it and I think that was one of the realizations when I went to rehab is for the 1st time in my life it made me. Made me look deep into myself and think it brought me to tears I didn't even know who I was pretended to be somebody for so long that I didn't even know anything truly about me and then it just made me start to reflect on the things I've done the people that her and the think I'm a conjoint justify the actions out so because he doesn't I've made a lot of mistakes and genuinely hurt people physically mentally and emotionally and I'm and I'm generally remorseful for that and our can't change what's happened beyond trying to spend every day of a large knife making a difference and for them experience is. Similar to the question I asked Aaron earlier like I don't know if I change him because it's what's made means the person who I am now and I genuinely again I'm generally most of the people of her. But I don't think I'd understand and appreciate another God be the father who I am now I if I didn't and if I hadn't gone for some of things it's a beautiful journey and I have been very painful. I wondered how you know how it was feeling kind of reuniting with your girls and and and finding them again and and them and and asking for forgiveness from them I mean what was that what was that like fully. Exotica to if I'm honest I think I'm still trying to get that. Because a part me feels like a fraud if I'm honest I'm trying to be the best man I can be Buffy alike at times. Because again I have a number that my dad left when I was 7 and I don't know if sometimes I don't know from if on if I'm doing a good enough job. And because I've got nothing to compare it to. And I love my kids and I will of a mean to mean everything to me and I'm trying my best to be the best man Arkham possibly be and trying to teach them that it's a bad treat and treat others are we it's better to be treated and have good conversations with them which which is amazing but again a part me still feels like I'm still learning how to be a dad if you're worried that you're not doing a good enough until then you are definitely. A normal parent. That is the normal no valid c. Of parent heard you never think you're doing a good enough job or you are you clearly you're doing the right thing way what about you Dan Have your kids I think him I think it was going on in particular I guess as you had a very different relationship with your twins and your daughter yeah think. I think when I read and when I went to Jews. Momus hopes for a meal or says your wife Yeah jewel she said going to table and have a for a meal with your family was a total alien experience to me and. Softened I have lamb to a family as through my Mahdi and through my waists family but as I was something of an experienced So anything on orbit and family and it's not over truly know myself and ethanol but be am even on a morally decent Fala comes from that illusion show saw how can I and I now wait we're not think of. Measurably every day us to be a fuel because of what went on the and off sleepin right there on me. No dog has the most beautiful why of low creation. Do you know I mean saw you have a family by and beef you. Struggled through because it and Cosmo got enough sleep enough so if you had asked me last question. If you buy him a family from me families of lately and it's not just the bit that people that you Madi to of the atom of blood relationship as well as a bit so much but I think when the big problems in society as we have the us and a nuclear family and it is really doesn't help that means you are go I think community you know for me what family and community do as they enable me to be in the past in that or the always dreamed I would become them to become more me to become more and whole and more connected so the whole idea of being connected is what families really are all the connection belonging and then not we do no sense to get money to you and Bill no family to know it is me. It can me into the past today and not speaking for mine because you know a lot is really selfish and all those things you don't need realize you had told mystery of it until you get by Ito He entered and yes he does at least in ship posts as the most amazing thing of a lot of what to do and Tim's of and Boden a delusion showed him a son in the room and would speak to the will need an off with life he's getting on with things by him and I now feel like am doing all right can seem to be the family of my sons to a section he lives in Scotland so. I feel like of that of the other in terms of focusing on with twins and my daughter Sophie and the quickly middle of the night I mean but I am yet. To be challenging for the whole. Christmas they slay the you guys what do you guys doing for Christmas and what do you think we should all be reflecting norm given that you know it can be an incredibly Hans time for people for homeless for people with chaotic lives so are our Father theory and they and I think it works nothing game when never mentioned us now but see that's the blown trumpet but when we were in. Rehab we ended up going back to prison I started to warm and he was coming up present and to go back into hospital and Malaysian I took a desk and it was too late we stay in our house and he came and stayed with us all for 6 months and I would make you a quick bike steam boss think of every family and this and the country and then to fight one individual whose home was who theirs in the community and to be friendly them. I think you would make out a mockable deafens more useful than the vigil but for the Pearson It could a family who supported on the vigil and for our community because we're good. Giving people money get them to do for it but the people people's lives to change in tow and until we open ourselves up and I happen to me every single drug addict on or who's broken of addiction is because of them a significant lesion steps laid out who thought it might mean meet them and tell them once a week and taken from you and as a family and taken from so that you can heal us today so that it can over so that you can both trust and I thank you all at Christmas thank the so many people warmly isolated disconnected dealer me profession troll national one of they can do of no one of us but then can she come and go and what would happen if we just identified one individual such as of course us. On let them know that you see them and you want to help them blind what about you what did that mean to you to to to to move into down and house was 6 months yeah that is that is a big large change a man nothing. And you people in the world will offer today to someone a big name in 6 months and you know you had jobs program with the twins and then at the door and death that was that was unbelievable it big for me because it genuinely showed that somebody can as up that really took me back and. Yeah faffing I think relationships are important and I think this Christmas Christmas is always interesting for me because I've spent majority of my life I'm on my arms are not really and. That month limit God to the commercialism of Christmas but I always find it mad that like families can always go on for a day and be amazing and won a battle each of a body and a week and I just think like just if we can reflect on that and and treat each other like that for one day one cannot last forever. And it's hard to seasons and exact so so Ali I'll go back to do chaplaincy the Huns house that I used to live in and we still help the people gains of Riyadh and it's and after midnight about 10 people died at least in the last the last 2 years and and I'm a struggle sometimes because I know you get people who the other Arabs talk about nature not trafficking no no 2 people are ever the same or have ever had the same experiences and quite often people can look down on people on the street and be like oh it's their own choices that made the decisions to do that and it's like we never want to we're always quick to criticize but we never never quits offer any suggestions of any positive and I just think be great if people could just think sums on. No one wants to be seen on the street rather moved to do that isn't it more go from a life in order for school was an early go was an on what I grow of want to be a crack and that was in my vision and I think sometimes if we could just we could just finger forward just ask the question of what's happening someone's love to lead into them circumstances and maybe we can start to work together make a difference is that it just kick in somebody when the dad. That was why 9 coke and the reference Darren Crowley thanks very much for being with me tonight I'll see tomorrow it's time for the Sarah thank you glass doors comes to the Vatican the. Secrecy around sanction abuse cases within the Catholic Church it's a big debate tonight what difference will it make and is it seen this will change late and where in all this for all 4 nights our down and as the temperature there's Saul's to record breaking levels it's going to be sweat see any could even be sticky but I know you will be cool. When you manage to find. Anyone else this is easy Radio 5 Live trying to go home 5 lives we welcome local radio stations from across the baby's see this is awful night I'm Dalton added via the menus on 5 Live Jeremy Corbyn tells labor n.p.c. Sorry for the general election debates and it's both something that I reached the League Cup semi finals after comfortably beating Liverpool's youngster and you can listen to the show by downloading the new b.b.c. Sounds out for music radio. And to make sure that you subscribe to the program so you don't miss the next episode. Is b.b.c. 5 live with the b.b.c. News on 5 Live is told Jeremy Corbin's faced fury from Labor M.P.'s after apologising for the party's worst general election result since the 1930 s. He assured his colleagues will only stay on as party leader until a replacement is elected the New Statesman's political editor Stephen Bush was listening to the meeting from a code 0 outside people saying it was time for him to stand down face aides to stand down as well for him to be cleared out your hand not just the usual suspects but you know kind of right across the party the only people who should have made speeches in his favor Claudia Webb a newly elected Labor m.p. For Leicester East who grew slightly sarcastic cheers at one point it was a pretty brutal meeting in lots of ways. As the latest Labor m.p. To indicate he may stand to succeed missed the cold and. The shadow bricks secretary told the Guardian he was seriously considering running around $9000.00 nurses in northern oil and the going on strike later alongside other health care colleagues is the 1st royal college of nursing strike in its 103 year history Donald Trump's accused opposition Democrats in the us of an attempted coup ahead of his loyally impeachment the president made the comments in a letter to the House speaker Nancy Pelosi a Washington correspondent Gary O'Donoghue has been looking at its contents the kind of various from loyally kind of exposition of his case through to some insults and then that sort of crowning moment where you get the comparison to the way he's been treated to those people who were burned at the stake during the Salem witch trials I mean it is quite extraordinary I think it does show you well should we put it this way I think impeachment is brought under his skin a bit John Worboys who became known as The Black Cab rapist has been told by a judge he may never be freed from prison the 62 year old has been given a life sentence after admitting for further offenses after a half a 1000000 Hotpoint in decision washing machines are being recalled over fears they could catch fire the manufacturer Whirlpool says customers can still use their machines in the meantime if they choose the coldwater setting and in a world 1st doctors in the u.k. You're trying a new way of delivering chemotherapy the treatment being tested at the Royal Marsden sorry could lead to fewer side effects and use ultrasound to target tumors cow and child is the 1st person to receive the treatment I thought I'd be coming in with a big group of people starting on the trial together and then she sat there and said deal you're on this trial on your own and you're the 1st patient in the world to be on the trial so that was quite a lot to process at the time I feel quite vulnerable it's also very exciting as the news is Shabnam with the support Aston Villa eased through to the semifinals of the a.f.l. Cup after a 5 no win over the youngest Liverpool team ever fielded. Well as experience was too much for the young sign which had an average age of 9 seemed in club senior players during Katsav for the Club World Cup semifinal against Monterrey tonight that Guardiola says he knew that McCallum I was in discussions with all snow about the managerial vacancy the Manchester City boss says he doesn't know what will happen but to will travel to Oxford fits nicely Cup quarter final Syria has apologised after images of monkeys were used on posters for Nancy racism campaign the League's chief executive Luigi to see ever says I realized it was inappropriate following heavy criticism from Italian clubs antidiscrimination organizations and Fallon Sherrick has become the 1st woman to win a match at the p.t.c. Will dance championship the 25 year old from Milton Keynes fought back from behind to get a $32.00 victory over Ted edits in the 1st round to Alexandra Palace she says I've proved that we can play the men and can beat them have made a great achievement for women's dots this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. Sound small speak of the moment the weather is going to be a largely drawing night for most with lengthy clear spells and light winds that will be missed and fog which could be dense in the Midlands and it'll turn cold across many areas with widespread frost in the morning the mist and fog will be slow to lift but most areas should see some sunshine eventually b.b.c. Sounds music radio podcast. I am if you need a pick me up for the Christmas doing right by his Crystal Kitchen take on this music makes me the tram stop attacking to my face like you talk bangs I am the wind down the treadmill since best to family mix to this place has something for everyone to chill out see some of my favor on the tracks I listen to around Christmas until on music mixes little b.b.c. Sounds this Christmas. Day and this is all for not over $500.00 for an added volume come. In this hour the program in a moment she will debate the Glasnost that has come to the Vatican is the. Secrecy around sexual abuse cases within the Catholic Church it's a big debate tonight what difference will it make and is it too little too late Also it's decision day stateside for Democrats accusing Donald Trump of high crimes and misdemeanors present jobs as.