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Summit later this week when to resume a hopes to have an agreement confirmed the prime minister is coming under our renewed pressure to explain why Sheehan's tends to prevent a hard border in our land Adrian is the Irish ambassador to London the transitional arrangements are a fundamental part of the withdrawal agreement and the withdrawal agreement covers the key area of arland in Northern Ireland you can't uncouple the 2 of them over the next 2448 hours it's hope we can find a way through on that so that calm terrorist in Friday when we have the European Council we are able to not just sign off on transition but equally signed off in relation to the progress has been made on the withdrawal agreement and the weather wintry flurries clearing West this morning leading into a drier and increasingly brighter afternoon with a top temperature of 7 degrees B.B.C. News. B.B.C. Radio Ulster travel. There are none of the usual rush hour delays to worry a bite because of the same Patrick's Day holiday but delays are expected in Belfast ahead of the Ulster skills Cup Final it kicks off at the games Bandstand am at 3 o'clock traffic is expected to be busy around the stadium especially on the Craig arose minds Marion Ave and the Raven Hill Road if you're going to use public transport so they just be aware that metro buses are on a school holiday timetable the trains are on a Saturday service whilst of us are running normally and if you're catching a flight the advice remains to check with your airline for updates as the weather across the water continues to cause disruption in Sutherland reporting. Trouble B.B.C. Radio. Biggest in the country. On the in this morning 6 horses dead and children recess last week is it time for radical change Also this morning what decisions can civil servants be the absence of ministers will gas law they have been given a facial advice. Guess again they will tell you what advice is also today. I learned how to honor on Saturday they completed the 6 Nations Grand Slam Also this morning a disabled man says Belfast trust left him stranded in Belfast city center when his wheelchair broke down those stories on board of the biggest radio show that country it's the Nolan show from the B.B.C. On Twitter and Stephen Nolan and on Facebook and real Stephen Nolan. Good morning the pretty horse racing authority will carry light a review after 6 horses died at the 4 day Cheltenham Festival 4 horses had to be put on on Friday final day of receiving a loan the racing commentator and public John McCririck with us this morning John good morning to you on a good morning and Daniel Farley from Northern Ireland says no Danimal cruelty Good morning to you Daniel morning good morning so here we have this review John we're going to have are of year every year and do we care enough about horses dying but we care so much it will call for a radical change well let's see what the radical change so much has been done everything for instance the Grand National there's been no photo since I'm good enough for the fences have been modified to tell them. What do you like before they use the concrete. It's going around right around the course the fence is one sloped so much has been done so much has been done 6 horses died yes and a 4 day period John Yes but what is the one you just read you have you called radical reform is needed all your listeners if anyone has any ideas for goodness sakes send them in sentiment to you send them into the B.H.A. To the ideas that anybody is all right and in the absence of new ideas we have continue to let 5 and 6 horses die the time doing well what is the answer to it is it is the answer to to ban or phrasing what we were if anybody suggests that whether that. Limits the death of thousands of animals. Nobody is more just than the sum of the horseracing Paypal really of the empty whole spots is that they have to go back to. It terrible but about half it used to be about double the number of horses used to die in the holy year than die now because of their falls in the bin that there are about 10 ambulances and cars and medics following around you will number 6 is the number John we can expect in the future as it was not expect no expect it was down it was down to 4 was the average and that was horrible and then it was especially on the ground that they had whether the ground was to the cause of it but it was on the micro You should have been easier on Foley would also be able to say we should have a smaller fails and 3 died in 20 to run a race at the end but every one of those falls been examined no other horses involved in it well how much are you turning the other number of runners all these kind of things can be considered everything should be trouble any idea is anybody's got plays racing wants to hear we will soon hear your view on this today as you 3030 in the 5555 Daniel you think and about I had other say there's a couple of misleading statements from John. And when he said there was no ground national past the last 4 years and 2016 was for Jones ready to talk about the specific final Reus But over the whole festival as for deaths there is 150 deaths in the north and the Grand National they didn't. Over the end are you going to get in the meeting but not in the Grand National So your wrong for a start get your facts right OK Well here's Fox wage on a 100 film rights are nearly every year size and ties of animals are so i thousands of Sir bred horses are slaughtered every year for nothing profitable making the debt so it's not just the deaths on the races themselves there's been 6 staff Chelton this year there's been $34.00 deaths in the U.K. In racing since the 1st of January this year like if any other sport had $34.00 deaths in the 1st 2 and a half months there being more than just a review carried out he said on it I'm not naive enough to think it's going to be funny as hell even more tenuous it should be. You know we're going to be saying horses to bond totally of this deal the only difference being horse racing and that 30 cropping industry of greyhound racing is money and pre-stage are still forced to race exploiting their nature to run or Puno they have a nature run they don't have a nature to risk starvations die within the undersea every year and they're only cared for now from the profitable you are a potential murderer because the whole situation on the boat will hold a whole lot of movement potential because the whole stray scene that ended that would be the school through the robots who would keep them alive but all the people who love them what about all the people that make so much money because they love their horses why would they not keep them off or we're going to hear before there's no racing but I'm a potential murder what does not make you think is he actively participate in the deaths of hundreds of horses every year we do the whole photo breads he says would perish if you had your way when we're breeding for both of their money it's basis but no I don't think that should be I don't think they should be slaughtered but if you're tell me the parents what happened what do you do when the army you know does . If you're going to slaughter site with horses because I want that what does that say about you if you're willing to host racing and then what will happen to the animals who can hear threatening to kill the horses John or threaten to kill a horse because actually they would be killed they would because you're a case of I'm not makes me God person exactly right oh you're going to kill horses just a horse if he got recently was helpless a rap a long time are such a long whole long John what does it say about the industry's love for these animals if what you're stating this morning John is like if there was no use for them they would be killed off exactly that what would happen here in the thoroughbred is a funny thing is the love for the whole thing isn't that how people in the industry feel about them that's not disputed it is a feeling that we have got to put to do what we can to prevent these horrible failures of this gentleman said happy so the race is and it doesn't we've got a tribe event that we've done our best so much more is being done on the refused little changes are made here or there if there's a big solution fine let's have it but to ban whole phrasing and greyhound racing would made the slaughter of tens of thousands great greyhound racing is being found globally etc It's a common faster pastor for more countries but you mention there by people within was a 100 things done you can jog even so I have GREAT 100 list and it's all it's just the start of course tens of thousands of dogs go missing every year they're sent to slaughter they you know you know yourself you covered it back a few years ago where drum track 4 horses were killed in one night that happens across the board greyhound racing is the most horrendous sport be on the surface if you just look at dogs running there's no problem you know but then when you start to scratch the surface it's all a completely different show so let's just stick to the horse race and John you said there are people within the industry here's a recent but really waltz back in 2014. Said you can a jockey you can replace a horse you can't replace you feel it's sad but horses are out of most that doesn't sound like a jockey who loves animals that's just sounds like a chuckle and obviously I don't always play OK You say he's a junkie would have you hang with this guy but you can replace that have you ever been to Ruby walked through more humane brave man was a wonderful representative to hear me and non-genuine him plenty rising so human it's just a said that just after his horse died and not a soul he made up to put that horse at risk for his own entertainment for his own riches for your wealth and that's where started he said I welcome. Board he's going to hoard support for you and some kind of willing to 3030 in the 5555 Stephen Terry morning Stephen mornings even dream of requests in Florida I know this woman was in any sport though I understand in any sport but yes I'm the one on that let's even make this point 1st. I'm just interested in the what sport isn't with them because in all sports even there was a level of risk involved a woman of guy goes aware of how many footballers fronts them they stop clear last year and will. Leave by playing the sport. The danger in all sports and I know well the footballers are willing participants the footballers were injured a 100 X. $150.00 footballers died every year I guarantee you there be a bit more than let's just tired we were here of this of this particular track and for 525 days 1668 horses have die any kalo he might feel enormous let's speak on your money Michael morning good morning in Thailand for you to start shot no pre-charge going to buy hadn't Go ahead Michael. I just would just like to point out the gentleman done you know does he have any clear post-horses because you know ask any owner or any tree in a pot so harsh international hungriest what they don't care whether the horse wins they want the horse to come back safely they don't want the horse enter the Reist to kill or. Ask a question he quoted Ruby was there saying that jockeys were human cautious armaments and he's exactly right he's exactly right because it's done and when you get up in China to fight all the people that are starving in the world. What a bloody animal it's anonymous and there you go with what we have we had by point for me you don't care about the animals yes meat the trans and I mean you're trying to deflect away from the center you're trying to talk about the worst things going on the world you can say there's worse things going on in the world to justify why don't you when you listen could you just listen for a moment owners or a good owners spinners and jockeys they all want the horse to come back in one place they don't send the night to get killed. But the sentiment knowing the could get killed it's a high risk it's a very high risk return on the whole return of the rule that because we choose to try the route the horse doesn't choose to enter the race we choose for the less the point we're exploiting their. Interests. Differ from horses humans have a brain and I can thank the state of South asked him to do things that's right like on the on the trade show where we're forcing a lot on them we have that choice we have that responsibility and if we have a responsibility to those horses because we can think why would we put them out risk it simply comes down to money it's money intrastate that's what it comes to the animals are nothing more than come out of the well you could say that about any sport they didn't get is that it will hold on amount at the say it's money and prestige actually you know in any sport there's a lot of money there's a lot of prestige but people also Carol about the sport and care about even things and people around them innocent and tough to be willing for it to be a sport Stephen Dunn you know nobody horses and you want to support the truth to do it but your horses choose to go in the ground lost only the risk of death on command in the cars are hardly to sing on the ground National when I'm hard pressed not the Grand National anymore as are our national hungriest because. Cry so much. Time. For if I'm of those just taken away so deeply into the charity of the clear Michael to be clear do you care when you say just animals do you care that 6 horses died over a 4 day period a child in this year of course the thing of course that I don't like the horses killed or injured and eeriest. If you could stop completely which you would be up. I can stop it if you could. But if you have are given a choice to stop him or John McCririck the horseracing industry must play. A part and that the self. But it is but the whole thing is you've got to realize the solution being offered here means the end of the federal bridge as a species that's what everyone will breathe the horses are very good take on rice coaster there you go and if they were going to break it would be all so that's on you then well you know if you look at my calling it is because I think this whole system and I and many others have died as well and by the way many more die in style you both hit on Gallup's than a lot of the I turn the very fragile animals so you know solution is in the sport and the space is mass murder that solution I think of the death that you have to hear shouted out on May see your willingness to hang her character. To get rid of the species altogether. Thanks so much or what you're saying is that if we're serious this year and your industry will slaughter them I'm not makes me the parcel service no industry turns one instead of Jose do you understand Israel's really high wish they were still McCurry not be amended so their last time. To make them stronger paper that they use right actually advertised as part of a sales technique with legs of iron the whole thighs because they didn't that the large pay the large bodies on the spend a life spent like Staver Bill I may. It is a risky business but they die in fields they die in stables. Live in Hollywood mourning my haven't. They even go ahead Can I ask a follow up front David is that I don't Brian Daniel sorry you don't know how you to. The last 40 years. Can I ask you some do you understand the consequences to the endless string of course on the. National Grid. You don't know what would happen to to watch the horses or the industry industry opposed to them Well obviously I'm not moving and service industry I want the industry pond you know I am aware we have to sit all day on the web to be the consequences of that bottle and people on the industry at that that's not my concern my concern is the animals. Don't let me tell you it this way I guess the masters of on employment we have a tremendous amount of job in those countries selling horse tack and gear a lot they will kill people who trade lorries for our people they will be on the dole growing young people who want to become targets they would go nuts over to. The or is the WE RE don't like them but they can tell them all that they were probably for sale the world economy we want to live and I want to live a society were you know the little bastards possible as little you know exploitation and cruelty to animals as possible that's pretty much mine that's pretty much my right there I think from the animals perspective yes horses are not humans but from the horse's perspective a horse wants to live just as much as you want to live and actually all or size of jobs doesn't it does you know for me the life of the horse more important a couple a couple or there would be no life for the horses because there will be no horses bred horses that are living now will be put you know how slow when they don't even understand you are a potential murderer so you are you are you know I think your I really wish you would stop saying that because obviously he would hate me because he is taking a position on nodding at the 0 charge here he represents the single forces that makes you the murderer Nobody stated would really want to turn you'll think it's going to happen to the horses racing is bad well I did ask him not question calmly What do you think Daniel is going to happen to the horses but with the arms race it's very clear what's going to happen what I propose what do you think would happen but I think John's absolutely right because it makes it makes the case that the people who are so you know says of the horses so much don't care about them so they get killed whereas they don't need to do that if they love the horse that was genuinely for a love of horses to change their millions and millions that's come to light and say keep it keep the horses keep of the recreational Never mind I really would you say you've been risking all your life is that not the point here John McCririck is saying well. Now do you know why all these people who love the horses they would get rid of them if they couldn't get their sport doesn't necessarily they were not great I was told. Almost the Malays and I can assure everybody or tell them on paper there was numbers that were absolutely devastated to do the 4th or 3rd day I was in I'm sure a conflict will probably happen again next year on the year after that that was. His source he said of Assad let me give you an answer yes the horses are almost 13 feet deep a lot of another form loses the place that's horrible yeah it happens so we say Dave that happens every day in this country and the 30 to 30 is a violent person to lose their legs every day and a new colleague can take colleague of the middle of the night so die before the morning hey that's the sort of situation that is the consequences are here and they are you seriously comparing a horse dying of not true colors and standing in our faces eating grass to the horse being driven or running the Chelton course we mean curve and even if we agree a solution that would mean what I what I mean driven I mean I mean forced to go as far as they can offer the saying of humans as they are we not forced whatsoever far away our whips didn't want to run up the word until much better than the which car and then let's say an artificial ear the one thing that they are told to writing that's what they are all right try can I say somewhere on that Jawn Murray made a point there fast horse doesn't want the Runnable run John what would happen to horses that doesn't want to run. No one who has to refuse an refuse to raise and one who will say I have a right we should ban the web and then of course load on a Sunday September is a separate issue the web should be carried for safety purposes steering purposes not for he had a believer who have joined and yelled at the horses to to hunker down but if. They don't want to run they go and this is a little rough Why don't you tell him Daniel this is do you want to be a millionaire I know John answer this question what happens to the horse that doesn't want to run it stops it tells Ryanair what happened. Was about to happen so it's in the what happens who's in the. Go away they can be able to make up this pets something that sure they don't race and they most of his life and there's a lot of wrongness the odds are they are slaughtered some may be really home what you should know isn't happening for all or even I should be campaigning for is to ban the behavior of animals basing animals in the name of a sport that scroll that's unacceptable Yes You know we have an injury purposes fight that for example a 9 last mile battering racing. Good morning to you than on this thing is the way it suggests that you know it can be used for steering purposes is ridiculous and I'm fully fully in favor the banning the way that I mean sometimes if you watch the way that you know jockeys laying to the side of the horses with the whip. It's really really just in that state in the like you meant that horse racing with and the horses would not the horses would be bred and what would happen to them that's the same argument that's been used in relation to farm animals oh you know they would disappear if we didn't breed them for their meat but what's true in both cases is that the animals overall are certainly in the case of horse racing and dog racing is the animals just being used to make money and even so there may be some individuals in the horse racing world that do genuinely love killing thank you very much indeed let's head to Dan Patrick and Ronald good morning Ronald. I'm sort of in can I ask John recurring Yes what actually happens to these horses when their bodies are now are fully if it was a lot of there is a lot that is heard on here on all the launch on or they put an end to the chance very thorough because they very likely would be able to be part of a part for almost any circulation. The exporting of horses that the crew to that goes on so much of it has been stopped. Although on the on although on what happens to the horses after the die are they put to the chin well regulated I'll say they die or the whole the too worried about what happens for later are yes what's your point Ronald Reagan or were. Others from the spot or her. Car stopped some 3rd foot. For God's sake they come on Joe and answer the question please don't answer one of the parties. The caucus is likely and buried in all that sort of thing and across they are even yes . And all to lose both in the ball is very supportive as there's a lot of things to campaign on a whole sort of or is this all they were all right on I fully accept that everything is all nothing in the background like say we could be 7 cheers but these horses we get these cheer watch the other and then since they're dead we could be in your name could be of no such terrible to all I'm not sure where you're by horse mates are livable borehole know not vibe where you get an Harshman from. That school regularly where well let's let's And that's not been you me anywhere on the morning I have us join and guitarist there is I cannot help you with the answer but I'm not going to question the cause or be a lot more people want. A horse than yourself from like. A watch or stating a bad gamble what the shut part about expenses for more from this is there's 14 ounces on says yes nonexistent days I'm so high right the thing in a couple calls and some of the phones are next story my can are my morning my. Morning morning good morning I'd like to put it across layers upon a horse breakfast Legace put in Ruby still helpless by it on crutches. That's a very good point to make a lot like our John the Cherokee and like does geometry give the very broken leg body part for doing. As I know a lot has been done but some of the injuries are so catastrophic You just can't save old men reference the great mill reef in the early seventy's he broke a leg and was able still to sob many holes the Afterwards they do all they catch and many hold the body more horses now do break legs are saved in the veterinary services that refined testicular amazing well they're able to do what they do but there are going to only really very little money to rumble rate from 7 horses on the money that was a minimal rate I know I know but that's from Santa so money yes money here live over it is a knife money is involved in everything in life unfortunately but that is a factor 5 but another way with authorizing revenue is your Bowman ever enable his estate to live a little and show today you have a way with both raising you do I will of our brothers the spaces you are killing the animal Yun of a measure of a real one eye open. For me all the horses on national radio the present effete Al Gore save my industry will slaughter them when you don't need I talk to many horses listening turns I fell fast Good morning John. Yes. Just a week or comment I don't know if they are correct and all those particles cracked monastery coming off of but I'm going to say. Well gee I mean he said he's not a major knob to get. On a building what's your problem John just a divorce or just assume what people if they have or that. Are doing almost all of you know. Everything or if they have and I would go at dozens of them and go what you want me to do don't just do it and don't mock When's the last time I rode a horse. Doesn't I know one thing as a lawyer thing is. Whatever circuit. Board of your. Part of the work you know. She's going to Judge Barnes Yes Mom this is not. That you know I don't think. You know. What you want open source but you want to learn how to fall so we can say you want . More than. A person with. A load on the 1st time you look. Into Daniel's be. Hard to argue that point well I say that what do you want to do you want callers out of them working hard for next spring of course they fail the horse will run running is not the same as racing and this is the misnomer that they go for all the time it's a horse's natural instinct a response not horse will run a horse may jump but when you bring it and then you force it to change with the way jumping over jumps it would naturally to a reason beyond its you know beyond its natural abilities which is where the interesting injuries happen and those forces. That's not that's the as you know John under nature John Sidel FOS you still with. A new kill joy at the end. John. You're still there ARE YOU WORKING TO THERE WHERE ARE YOU. Well let me know what you might be worth and. What is up mania might be work and. I can't hear you say come close to the phone. Hello every night I can hear noise. I'm I'm told you're up a lot or. Are you up a lot or not. You clean windows. All in the. Stay there John because Deirdre divisional supports on me as that and on John wants to speak you can morning to vote 1 if they don't hurry and so good morning to John. But often also but I will say no denying else I would rather not say good morning to join you will speak to people of your opinion you know absolutely no you know I have the right in this place like someone or not I don't like Joan therefore I don't have to speak to or say a lot of only part of bird 60 seconds you know I was forcibly hurting for years Monte top your when your. First year when the. Sun came up my lottery he wouldn't go on going again but this is John McCrea cure talking about yeah yeah yeah you know no one telling all fast out the window cleaner no one can work away what would you like about John because I think he's a chauvinist I just like this MCCURRY Well. True but if you don't like my. Father Dorney Lake Champlain protocol I don't ask you to like me and therefore I have the right to Lake or not lake in the program and I think I rather sinister twist and join inside Belfast and like you know like the deity before we go to the US Did you tell John your opinion John's window cleaner not personalities. John not mine my comments weren't directed toward you only send the 1st instance I have a point to make airily totally agree with Daniel in relation to the exploitation of horses and we can have all the arguments of a thorough bred and so on and so forth this is purely a business endeavor by those who have the money that can afford to do that I.E. You have to look at the amount of horses coming in from Saudi Arabia except and those are because those people are very wealthy OK like I agree with Daniel horses don't have a choice yes it is not true the instinct to run the sails but these races could be more controlled in so much that we don't have horses being killed on the wrist every day what do you say Joe on the cure or anybody else let them going to run and jump fences. So you can actually John start Belfast Oh I mean there is no Mary and the story goes as much as that on. The watch. And they understand it's going to you know hopefully that no wars are older and no wars. It's OK You know that's the action you're the one. That you can go through but both OK are good and all right. We're going to go we've got to go I want to but let me let me say thank you to did he and Daniel and and Joe McRae can join in times past before you go when you're up the ladder cleaning windows you must see some things. But I didn't you know one day. I thought I'm on. I'm. Not saying you get no benefit of that. The you never know your In a thank you very much and a good morning to you know yesterday the T.V. Presenter Parklane He's one half month and back was arrested on suspicion of drink driving after a collision and threat involving 3 vehicles in southwest London at the place Samba in-service London Fire Brigade also attended a number of people were treated for minor injuries a child passenger in one of the cars was taken to hospital for a check up as a precaution Police say a 42 year old man was rest of the same after failing a roadside breathalyzer test last night I spoke to the B.B.C. Arts and entertainment correspondent Colin Patterson. This all happened just before 4 o'clock in southwest London on South Richmond Road what we believe happened was there was a 3 car incident and McPartland was driving one of the cars a black mini And what we believe is that he has been arrested on suspicion of drunken driving a statement from the Metropolitan Police as a 42 year old man was arrested at the scene on suspicion of drink driving after failing a roadside breath test earlier and when you see if you go online at the moment Stephen there are lots of videos lots of pictures of and McParland there on the scene at the time looking very sheepish chatting to a female police officer and we believe he had actually been taking his dogs for a walk with his mother immediately beforehand and his mother was in the car at the time of the crash I would also learning from metropolitan police that a number of individuals were treated at the scene for minor injuries and one child passenger of one of the other cars has been taken to hospital for a check up we believe that is a 3 year old girl so the headline being that McPartlin from and that has been arrested on suspicion of drunk driving is a Jew to. Present Saturday night. You've presented last night he was on primetime 90 V. Looking happy as Larry doing since the Patrick's Day tribute on the show and this is what's been so on is the fact that if you see him and T.V. You know you just looks like the handsome deck of old I was interviewing them in January when they won the National Television Award Best pretty presenter for the 17th year in a row these are the nation's most popular T.V. Presenters and today but then as he's been open in the last year he has really had his trials he checked himself into rehab for a painkiller addiction he's gone through a divorce from Lisa Armstrong his longtime wife so he's a guy who's having his battles and his demons and this is a very very public one today there's all kinds of photographs of the incident Stephen lots of people saw this and lots of people were shocked to see and for months and then being arrested. Is going to a media frenzy around I'm not calling this an. The front page of the sun tomorrow morning it has the headline Anson writes with a photo off the black many in its conditions so this is going to this is going to be a big story Stephen OK Colin Patterson thank you very much and they say they are determined correspondent Paterson on and on through from and and Dec fam knowing what advice how permanent 2nd grace being given about taking key decisions and Northern Ireland permanent secretaries are the people who have been running Northern Ireland since executive collapsed over a year ago Minutes seen by the Nolan show from the symbolist year show that advice was given to those civil servants in the absence of government ministers but they don't spell out what was in the guidance the minutes say the device was given and they quote verbal opt in so once again here we have another example of things not being written dying on paper but the bigger question today for us as a program is that you know over recent months I've been biting on a bite Well look yes in the absence of a minister we get all this rhetoric and we get all of these explanations Well we need a minister to make up the station but is that actually true in law hard far can a civil servant Go and taking decisions Well we know you know that they've been given legal advice about that but we also know that they're not telling us what the legal advice is sound McBride from the newsletter with us today good morning to some good morning good morning and Allan Patterson former principal Clark to December Good morning owl 47 Good Morning Good Morning Well Sam it would be helpful for us to know what the legal advice was Kerry that's covered under priviledge they don't have to tell us but the question is why wouldn't they tell us what's right and there's a very high bar within the public sector or for that matter with him in any sector up. Handing out voluntarily legal advice which you've got to be a principle of legal professional privilege is almost like the sacrosanct nature of the confessional box it's something which the bar to breach that has to be exceptionally high that that being said the individual gets legal advice come at any point obviously choose to waive it they are the person who is commission that they failed for in this case I think it was from and from an in-house legal advisor within the executive so was actually from another civil servant so that could be put out there and you said something there but this being a being a verbal update which it was but I think it was a little footnote saying that there would be a written update which would follow because of the pretty extraordinary if something as sensitive as this was not put on a paper because obviously it's absolutely fundamental as the holy civil servants are not operating but I think that without having seen the legal advice I suspect we are still see that written up to and we haven't been given. That that again comes back to whether whether they're going to waive privilege which at this point they're not doing I suspect that the advice is actually quite on clear because the situation in which civil servants operate knowledge has new legal precedent and it's not written legislation as to what should clearly happen in these circumstances so what is happening here is that a barrister has been asked to look at all of the relevant legislation and there are several acts which come into play here and secondary pieces of legislation and I'm trying to piece together from the what can you do the in the situation which Parliament has not explicitly addressed in the legislation that was never in the Basij that this would happen not that it has happened what does the law say you can see and I think that is something where 2 different legal advisers Mike if you 2 very different opinions and the difficulty for the civil service is that if they come to court over this as they have hope for at least one issue parties out play out and that that's something which which they just cannot be certain about at this point. Well I think actually there's a real danger here government a little mark on the kind of a civil service. The I can't believe it wouldn't be written advice support in the oval advice if the legal advisor to the at the meeting whether or not of such advice you know I do say sometimes that we need to ask a different question Legal advice is quite often protected and I genuinely our separation of think otherwise legal advice can get cleared by a specialist I was going to expose potentially Sometimes you need to ask different questions sometimes you need to ask what is the I come of the legal advice of course what the advice of self was. In terms of servant making decisions I think a lot depends on individual pieces of legislation and relevant to different areas from time to well requiring that station the minister takes to the station and such cases but they are tied Well I actually make this real and give you an example of what we as a program were looking on because we saw all the clear Archibold provided members with the verbal opted on work we saw this man did clarity bold provided members with a verbal update on work to develop advice on decisions in the absence of ministers including a humbling of any cost cutting issues and ensuring that all relevant information is taken into consideration joining in the decision making So in other words some McBride This is about cost cutting this is this is a bug things sorry cross-cutting a she's things that will transfer from one to the elder In other words these are important functions of government well I think that is actually the most revealing aspect of it even though we don't have the advice even though we haven't heard the update we haven't seen the written piece which has which has flowed out of that a little short but even then it tells us an awful lot like the current mess I think within government because we see there a hint I suppose of the complexity of what's been considered so cross-cutting issues or issues which affect more than one department on there the. Normal running if evolution were to even if there's are involved the might be from different parties a ministerial coach very clear that a minister cannot friend and help make a decision that is going to have a significant impact in education or in some other area they have to bring that to the floor executive So all of the government has to discuss that high on earth to do that in a situation where there are no ministers So if you've got one permanent secretary it is fight he wants to do something you've got another Permanent Secretary of State Department to fight he doesn't want to do it he decides what is going to happen is that the head of the civil service the all the permanent secretary get together and attend their ministers almost and have a vote on I mean that's that's a very very interesting I'm still in step one though Sam I'm trying to understand why because open government and transparent government is is one of the bad rocks of the public having confidence in a democracy so I'm trying to understand why the legal advice as to what decisions civil servants can take in the absence of ministers is not being released I'm trying to understand why they're sitting on the. I think the civil service is an inherently conservative small to conservative organization that doesn't like to do things which it doesn't have to doing and if nobody is compelling them to release something I think generally and we see that obviously recently and other areas in terms of lighter transparency but even even in a broad sense generally they will not release anything unless they're they're really forced to do that so unless there is there is something which makes this kumite it's very unlikely if they're going to fold there at this point. And do you read anything into coming in one second but Sam do you read anything into this reality then this this crucial advice they choose to do it is a verbal up didn't so they didn't they didn't distribute the paper they didn't distributed document and just in the in the context of give a startling saying recently that things were not written Daryn and key as they were released in order to frustration after wise is the reason why Mr Starling in his some of his colleagues were not writing things down is it just a coincidence that this wasn't written by neither. I think it's actually ironically difficult to tell a lot because of one of the wider aspects of this in terms of not writing things because the minutes themselves are pretty bland it's difficult to tell whether this was something which was somebody just raised for Billy and it was responded to verbally and she said yes I'll go away and to paper in this or whether this was planned it was part of the basis of the meeting certainly if you look at the minutes of civil service meetings knowledge and you compare them as I have done in terms of old records from 1991 things done in the Public Record Office Back then you'd really get a blue by Blue account of what had happened lots of the freeze all that you got of the colorful language really here what we get is just a press A and A a couple of lines think this is what happened I think that having said that icky thing here is that it doles say that that there will be a written update which will follow if that wasn't the case I think that would be an absolutely extraordinary situation because civil servants in this situation need clarity needs to come from the top and he's the coupons with people knew what they can to see come out of the situation with people are are verbal e going the wrong then saying you see this because we knew that. Something to sleep various people by word of mouth it changes. Something with absolute clarity on paper I don't partition it's 14 months Stevenson's the assemblage sort of collapsed and we're in this odd situation on President of the side where we don't have a government don't have direct rule either and it's rather worry of the civil service haven't at the stairs 14 months later come to a definitive you know well on what they can give advice on what the spaces they can laces that are. On As you know to repeat the at least this is some of the situation where we're being governed in the dark. Where. Proper historical inquiry is frustrated where our current inquiries are and pitted and we're accountable to become spy on clear given what you're right size to be in fact what Clarke history was was beginning. Approach sass off inquiring into what civil servants going to yeah but yeah that that's true Alan that's fair except that we also noted the following sentence Claire advice that she would bring further advice to the board by correspondence before the next meeting when we asked for a copy of that they wouldn't give it to use I think are 2 concerns I think we're on the high long to take and even get to the point off seeking advice on what this is and think and to. The longer we go on in a situation where we have neither devolution or direct rule we are going to be continually frustrated by Still Sharma's reluctant. To tell us why they can't make decisions there are some some Christmas already where they hope to get some controversial decisions I think the. Renewable energy plant some months ago where there is Delegate of a story authority to construct things on planning up was clear you know so really it's about time after 14 months I think the civil service restarts the legislation all the areas and we're clear themselves and want to pick patients all OK Alan and Sam thank you very much tend tan Why are you taking pictures of me. You know it's only come in here in a Monday afternoon and 9 years of working with you you have to just get your enjoyment where you can your pleasure where you can swipe take pictures of you with silly filters on just to make me feel better do you know what do you do with them put them up and snap Sargasso this yesterday and Fred Thompson got them to ease don't listen to. Yes I'm still missing a good thing with all the money you earn you could get your teeth but it's a temporary CRYING WHAT DOES NOT mean when I was eating you know those licorice TOF nice licorice told I was eating like 1st off. You're like a caricature of yourself you know that temporary crying Comite and then I put my pocket swearing to myself I wouldn't lose it and you know also I took my treasures off that's another story. I've lost a deal remember when you took your control. I'm threatening not to get it fixed for Wednesday T.V. Considering the facts for last where you might try to meet one television with teeth the thing is with what teeth that's the one word that you seem to struggle with with what is that coming up that's a big gap not because there's a spike there yes but what's kind of freaky looking and. I show up but you don't smile very often so it's all right people do I know notice. This week that we got appeared anyway I have a an idea until when I come into office sometimes I have ideas for new he wants to hear ideas because they always are appealing the party ready for the. Thought of us to make and I thought I'm going to get my little helpers to make this happen who's your helper you so on helping here's what I have to say that yes we are going to take a bunch of Nolan chill nesters on a cruise make a bigger problem here you think Curry's well get all that all the color is that for the dollars you almost all get on a boat I will go to I don't know where they were going my loofah will go I don't know there's Bantry and I will go somewhere you want to go on a cruise to Michael your side classy boy let's say I like my day idea of a cruise but answer if I like the idea of a cruise with John and Norman and I'll probably cost Don't worry it will cost the real cost of a probably be I don't know what it cost a few 100 quid but I'll and I'll be thought of as cruiser really would be thighs because I have a lot on atheism per passenger All right so you're going to bill so for something more than a cost it's what you could end up costing the B.B.C. More because you're going to out on your little extras as our day per day what is the this is an all or fast and you know no you just bored No Can you imagine getting stuck in a boat with half the callers to the show more you your be the problem what would Professor Brian Walker say. Prime I come here Morning Brian I think it's very the start last night you don't seriously unserious right I'm serious about it can we can we get sad Who do you want on the cruise. So it's you who you want on the cruise you want like manufactory you want OK Main Street you know I want to spend time with me and Norman and George in the Shango hold on we're where we but you're trying to send We matters in there we've got slow behind the scenes Ross let's get Christine on air like Mr Slow today. Trooper should you be just but that we make gears often and see what happens right away good morning read your case thank you very much indeed Here's the number today 03030 in the 5555 Don't forget. Television or life is back on Wed C. Night and 1040 B.C. Want to believe it's the last program in the current series as they say but the last program ever for the B.B.C. Gets its way the last program and it's Wednesday night 1040 B.B.C. One we're right let's move on to date the New York Mayor Bill de Blasio has infuriated Union Spike proclaiming this year sympatric stay as quote Gerry Adams day he made a proclamation honoring the former Shin Fein leader at a special event ahead of the 5th Avenue Bridge had read I build the plow 0 mare of the city of New York to here by proclaim March 17th 20 attain in the city of New York as Gerry Adams day the former Labor Senator Maria Cantwell is with us this morning good morning to you Maria morning Camorra good morning in the commentary Chris Donna good morning Chris good morning Steve good morning we're hearing more than a hard you react when you heard of Gerry Adams day Maria. Oh well I mean explain why from the 1st of March because an Irish American newspaper had actually said that he was going to be the victim are the victims because the government. Honoree all of this event so I find it quite incredible that layover rugger is nigh claiming that he didn't find it on tell a few minutes beforehand but in terms of my own reaction to it then and they said just rolled my eyes I thought it was going to be another you know Arash American FOFA supposed to be the victims here but actually when I started looking at the social media feeds yesterday and the front page again of the Belfast Telegraph today but it's quite understandable the spectrum's including myself would be traumatized by this would be angry and. I really think it was a wrong decision for both applies to take why would impact those that have well I think 1st of all and then yesterday if you listen to the comments from Bill de Blasio me he said that Gerry Adams had done something truly heroic and truly revolutionary he find a positive place and I don't think that anybody would take away from the fact that Gerry Adams has been on a journey but I think that the heart and the trauma that has been caused to victims really was overlooked and completely eradicated by Bill de Blasio he just ignored asked when it was to go graying misty eyed gunk you know you would have thought from the way that Bill de Blasio was going on this die out and said the lead role in The Quiet Man rather than head up a movement which was responsible and was the figurehead for the movement that was responsible for murder torture adoption and a very slow course that Gerry Adams denies ever being a member of the Crist only for the. I think that you know it's the American way to be over the top the whole to the altar claiming Gerry Adams day I think that just kind of fits in with that but I do think that both of us who are perfectly entitled to Mark Gerry Adams are time and amount of reflecting on how to get not just the average American but also one of the primary architects for a peace process that now has come to be viewed as one of the most successful on the global stage over the past century you know there's not going to be any sleep loss by the mayor of New York where some of the reaction has been in Ireland to this and I do think that some of the motivation would have been for converting on Adams was a nod to the powerful Irish American lobby in the city we do see you know Mayor mayors of New York make similar perhaps pardons and statements on Israel Palestine because of the power but part of part part of politics Chris is being sensitive to how your words will go dine with people who you agree and disagree with so was it not for Bill de Blasio as a matter of New York to consider harsh proclaiming Gerry Adams they would dine with some people who believe that they have been victims of violence or a volunteer and Northern Ireland I don't think. Registered at all for Bill de Blasio in this decision this is nearer to home this is the by the Irish American lobby and that's that's just the nature of politics but I do think there's a wider point in this even too because it is a statement of fact in the sense of what Gerry Adams will within republicanism and you heard some of the Republican analysis on what Bill the bloody thing about Adams working for Irish unity fighting injustice but ultimately suing for peace. And we've heard over the last few months any time that really McDonald's or Michelle on the public commemorations there has been Eunice reaction sometimes become a joke now to say that Eunice theory rage and anger to the I think there's a bigger there's a bigger issue at play. Here because there's a there's a degree to which some people are trying to control narratives on the past instead of accepting that we do have differences we have fundamental differences on how we view the past even how we present nevermind or different protections of what we want to thank her but but but not accepting that means that you're going to have perpetually reacting adversely in this manner towards anyone you know essentially articulating the Republican analysis OK Maria Well I think the press makes a good point and I have no problem whatsoever with Bill de Blasio has been a political opinion them and he also said that it was a right just cause to stand for a united Ireland and of course it is and that is a legitimate political view for some people to take but I think where he misses the point is that this was a very partisan event yesterday he's right at Nation always there are also many absolutely emitting shark is supposed to represent every member of the aisle and that's the virtue over the office the difficulty with us and I think of this was the wrong decision for the tape shockers political advisers take to go there. Is because Senate bill has been actually quite robust and terms of holding Jim Sandia kind on them say she's on her head and then they attend an event which was set up a breakfast on our Gerry Adams really was a slap in the face for people like me who found a gal has actually been a champion for me but I'll be a very little broader This was some fabrics they brag for so you know he probably didn't know what was going to be said well it was published on March the 1st space and if you go back to I think it was the I.R.S. Poster the summer had published this event to say the summer had actually and I publicly he was going to honor Gerry Adams out it so I find it quite incredible if Leo Varadkar monitoring my stuff until the more refined Chris thank you very much indeed coming up to 10 o'clock I mean can you leave us for a short. Live at 10 o'clock live like you live from the B.B.C. Live.