By his hometown for saying it was his dream to get out of the slums he made the comments at the B.B.C. Sports Personality of the Year awards he backtracked straight away but the leader of Steven age bar accounts says people they're a very offended Shabnam Eunice Joel has the support from the Rovers boss Mickey Mallon says it'll take a bit of time to sink in that they'll be playing Tottenham in the F.A. Cup 3rd round in January but he decided through after beating Southport to Nell in the 2nd round we play these maidens Dobby finished goalless but the draw Dobby County has made Nottingham Forest to within a points off the Championship play off places and will be staying at Manchester United until 2020 it's after the club triggered the option of a year's extension on the forward contract Chelsea's 5 year dominance of the F.A. Youth Cup is over after a 43 3rd round exit at Manchester United they'll face Brighton in the next round the Champions League last 16 and Europa League last 32 draws have been made you can head to the B.B.C. Sport website for details and all Staten Island forward in Henderson will miss most of next year's 6 Nations because of a thumb injury this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sounds small speak up. Very mild this morning and windy today with a chance of gales we'll see rain spreading east some of the heavy especially in the north and west getting brighter in Northern Ireland like the kinds of 11 in Edinburgh and London some of the year again. Very well thanks to I just wanted to Radio 5 Live and also for Christmas die hard life. More I was gone 5 past the radio it's like that people tend to say nice things about you when you die but they are point of praise that followed the Scottish artist John Bellamy to his rest in 2013 Israel held by the director general of the National Galleries of Scotland so John Lennon is one of Scotland's greatest artists of the modern era he was loved by his fellow creative talents some of them telling the story it is a story another great Scott many feels called him a hero Damien Hirst said the bell in the show when Sheffield turned him on the painting they were Bowie was a close friend as well as was the poet the Scottish Port Allen bolt nobody could have been a better friend than Bellamy's wife Helen though he moderate twice with the art critic Tim Morrow Helen Bellamy He's written a book the restless wife mighty life with John Bellamy and the book starts with a view of Hallam as a young student at Edinburgh College of Art on student and early 1960 S. So why did they get the clothes were all sharp spoke to Helen Melanie back in April when I came down in tweeds and say you know Hannah knitted things that had been specially made for me by my mother and to go to the college you see so and I soon realised that this was the most uncool thing I could ever be seen and so. They are students we all went to the 2nd hand shops in the grass market and. There were several of them there but our favorite one was Madame doubt fires and she had a place down in the new town in amongst all that sort of pushed grand houses a basement and it was full of piles of clothes nothing was hung up and nothing was . Presented in any normal way and the cats used to roam around it and there with. Consequently the smell was quite pungent at times. That we found treasures there it was a fantastic bet you did and that was royal circus I mean one of the grandest streets in the new toy that's right yes it's a basic so anyway and it was called I thought this is amazing it's called Madame de out far just think of anything to do with the naming of the film when you know Robin Williams that the film Well I believe I'm fine with it wrote the book and titled it madam and I've got to see I really was I wasn't pleased about that because not of Doubtfire was a legend in a own right and didn't need a film you know called you know it's the film made that was called not and fire had nothing to do with her and it was a good film but you know I'm out of Doubtfire deserves a film of our own right where you go. There we're here we are here we are to talk about John Bellamy the wonderful artist who was your husband not once but twice how did you 1st learn about Him Well I 1st set eyes on him in my 1st week at dark college and then I didn't know and even just a student in the year above and subsequently I saw some of his work which told him I'd fallen in love with the wire if where it fell in love with him if he was it was dynamic and very very powerful way and even all through I was just a fledgling student myself and didn't know very much I it had a great impact on me. There seems to be an exuberance about his work the especially the early work it was like he could barely contain himself you know just just to get stuff on the canvas yes absolutely he. He was fired up from an early age I think really from when he was a very young child and he started with the fishing boats of course and you always knew he wanted to be an artist seemingly. You say the start of the fishing boats that was because he came from a fishing port wasn't a great sea didn't support a port on fishing families both his maternal and paternal grandparents and before then they were always fishing fishing people and you would think that you know he the the family wish would have been for him to follow in their footsteps but he had other ideas and. He went ahead with with with what he wanted to do and they were very very proud of him. I mean is there a leap some of the early stuff as is fishing boats on on the skids isn't it with yes to go back into the water Yes Yes Well his father was a he left the sea for some family reasons and he went to be a boat builder so the whole thing it was the whole the whole. Aspect of fishing that the family were concerned with and so John he would see the boats the in-built he would see the structure been for him and he would understand the balances and the grace and beauty of the design and everything it all fed his imagination. One of the early great paintings or was is can or will is not just a ball is it so much more it's that it's the people are on the board can you tell us about it well when he came to Sutherland would I come from I to come round it to the west coast and day of course he wanted to go and see Lochinvar under and that was a harbor that he knew of so we went there and he was thrilled and we spent ages looking at the boots some of which he he knew because they came from the East Coast and you could tell who the skipper where the skipper is where and then I took him further up the West Coast and we found ourselves in cannot bear the I'm turning the corner and looking down into little harbor among the rocks he was astounded he couldn't believe he thought it was part of dice a harbor in such a beautiful remote place and that inspired them to paint the iconic picture that is in the National Galleries they've they've all got these severe black hats on which the hat of course appears on his head well I think that's where the artist imagination comes in artists' license if you like and they this is what it was it wasn't. A sort of literal depiction of the fishing fishing boats and fisherman It was his own vision which was powerful and idiosyncratic and they that's where it creates you know work of art comes in it's it's I know it's a pair small vision of the artist. It Tomorrow actually talks about this hat on John's head in a self-portrait and he says that it strikes you when you whenever you go into the general assembly room at the Royal Academy in London and there it's a it's a very severe self-portrait isn't it I mean he barely appears to have any arms will a lot has 2 or treats nearly days where quite severe and I don't quite the consequent explain that except that perhaps it comes from a history logis upbringing because he had to go to church 3 times every Sunday to Bible class Sunday school he even went to the president meeting with his uncle and of course the black hats in the fifty's everybody wore hats men were hats women were huts to church all this kind of thing but there's a severity in the fifty's that a sort of permeated everything and perhaps that's where it comes from is fascinating is that the beard is straight the brim is straight shoulders are straight everything is in straight line well you had to be in state lines then. This is a bit awkward for him it was well he found a solution through he told the line tell us about what you told the lion and then well let's all get a line and then he got a glimpse of another world and that appealed to him much more so he he he would see that his life was fooled he followed the line between the sacred and profane for the rest of his life but it's interesting because that that upbringing the church the religious upbringing he had never left him he played away he he lived the wild life but. It was always knocking against him and all was causing him some kind of anguish which never left him I think he believed that what he was told in church that. He would. He will he wouldn't be one of the saved ones he would be going to hell you know and there's seem to be no we're fat. And you could never I mean just jump a long way along with the head but you could never convince him otherwise could you I mean even when he when he he lay quite ill for quite some time I mean you would have conversations about solitary Yes well. I think he would he used to sometimes see he was a dealer at atheist so in this Sunday. It was all joie de vivre and. And living the good life that come the darkness and then that's when the voices and the fears would arise again and torment him and they did to the end of his life but he still he still was the most joyful person you could ever meet and date but I knew that this is what was happening in the quiet airs like about the College of Art because you meet him and then only later to discover the full the full cut a mythic status Yeah this man who would organize marvelous contests with the students yeah go College of Art Yes yes. Well one of the things that they did they get up to well. There was a non You will visit one year be Edinburgh going to Glasgow. Not going to US School of Art and law school and then the next year the Glasgow ones would come back to visit us so they're all some pranks and schemes lead on and one notable one was when the Edinburgh students put on a still trace which was going to go around the building and Princes Street so they started all they all lined up at the stage at the front of the building and they had to go right round and come round to the front in the prize was a bottle of gin and I don't know if there's a crisis but there's a bottle of gin anybody so it was all arranged between that and the students that they would let the glass gang get round to the back of the building and then they would ambush them and knock them off their stilts and then. Get round to the front and claim the bottle of whiskey bottle of gin for themselves so that is what happened and they pushed their is our diet after after that and they were still rule over the castle. As they ran off with a bottle of gin and that that's great fun. They're marvelous descriptions of your lifestyle which would be I think it would be an exaggeration to call but he me and I mean it was it was it was less the behavior was incredibly basic but there you are now in your 1st place together was in Rose Street which I guess this incredible reputation than to the sixty's delis by roosting Yes it was it was crazy well. They had John had a studio there he shared with some other students but they then Chile. Gave up on it so John had it to him self and that's fair enough. So I met him we went and we lived there for the rest of our time and Edinburgh until we moved to the 2nd floor but downstairs I mean the street had a terrible reputation for prostitution for drugs for well drunkenness more than drugs really but downstairs from us there we discovered that there were some sad characters living in a sort of Warden of rooms and of course there's no addict or city because. There was no money to put in the meter and things like this so we discovered that these people were meth string players and they we got to know them. And one time. Well these to come up because we had paintings on our walls inside us inside the studio and sometimes they would come up and look through the letter books and the 1st time this happened the letterbox went clattering down and we hared footsteps going quickly down the stairs again because we found out that this man who was on meth he looked through the window and the later books he looked through the letterbox and seen a massive life sized painting of John standing there sort of brandishing his paint brushes and looking straight at the letterbox and then he nearly died of fright so he used to sometimes come up again to look but intrigued but then would you know run off again and it was a M. . It was incredible. How did you go on living with all these huge conferences Well there was no option they used to come everywhere with us and him and the way it was the way paintings as well John always had to pay into it every went so if I took him home to Sutherland and where he painted the air he painted everywhere and they always had to come back down south with us so I remember many times by this time we had 3 children small children one another pushed year and we had our bags of stuff to get on the train change at Inverness change at Edinburgh to get back down to London and we'd have all of this plus the 2 totally wet paintings to negotiate. It was incredible but it was already such a wonderful life. There was a time wasn't a before before he actually left before he graduated from college in Edinburgh and he you know his friends wanted to enter a contest in London the people of College of Art We're nothing to do with us but they had to work out how to get all these enormous campuses down to London how did they do it well John never saw any sort of op stickle to to achieve in any of this stuff you see he believed that and he believed that everybody would go along with the way he thought because he thought that it was the cause of art was sacrosanct and that you know the people in the railways must think along the same lines as him so anyway a plan was hatched to get it to collect all the paintings it was a friend and up in the pub who had a van and so he would collect all the paintings he would be paid in paints probably at the end of the day but so they got the load of paintings to Waverley station and they they watched for where the guard's van would be positioned so and they knew when the train was coming and it was the night train to London so there was a whole team of them and the man handled the big huge converses into this guard's van as fast as the crude Well that got tougher from loaded on when a one of the guards so what was happening and came up to inquire in no uncertain terms so they said hold on a minute Sonny if this sit so he said What are you doing he said well we're taking some paintings to London and Donal was thought that if he gave his heart to heart talk about the grunge of art in the grunge of the of a the motives and things like this that they would fall into line no no not a whole so everything was halted they were made to see the cold to see the. Stationmaster who in these days would have taught Pat. He was a bit like the Fat Controller and so they were holed into his office and they he wanted to know exactly what was going on so while they were doing that they just looked out the window and saw the train. Gathering speed out of we've only station often it's way to London with half the paintings in the guard's van with no documentation nobody it's a King's Cross to to deal with them and the rest in the van waiting to be loaded on well it was they had to call a sort of open Philipson who was the head of painting at the Edinburgh article it and say Well he I remember I was around at the time and he sorted it all out I believe he must have paid paid the the cost of the transport but. And and then 2 of them John and his friend went on the next train with the rest of them but I reckon there was a big tailing off waiting for them when they got back to the art college and but they got them there they got them did I not only that but they won prizes I think the competition so marvelous. Edinburgh during the festival there was this was a very exciting place because the 1st 4 wasn't the friends that we wasn't old and know they decided they'd make their own exhibition John and those polls well it was the out of the NZ a few 3 really they believed that there Bishan It's where grander than anything that anybody is attempting to do in this in the Scottish art scene at the time and the believe that the want to take art to the people not art in the pressure is a. Art Art galleries they wanted art to be for everybody so that was the great ambition so they so they thought that instead of trying to get their paintings into the establishment they would demonstrate their difference and their superiority by but. By displaying them on on the railings outside the Royal Scottish Academy and. The actually managed to persuade one of the guards at the Royal Scottish Academy to let them store them there overnight which I thought was an amazing cheek. But that didn't last long because it was soon brought to the attention of the. The POWs that B. And the they were feuding this. Came to an end so they had to end up storing the paintings in the basement of millions in one of her street where there was that was their favorite bar and they would stay there would still take them out in the morning take them across Princes Street in the rush and their massive things I had a hand in helping with them once or twice myself and then they would tie them to the railings outside of whether the rain came on or the sun it was all the same they stayed there until the end of the day that the pipe band would come along and play beside them so that they thought they'd go to a really great pitch because it was milling with people and at the end of the day they'd all be untied and cut it again back across Princes Street and into the basement it's hard way a sort of a well my goodness me and it must of must that they call them to bits that years later 3 years old retrospective Royal Scottish Rite out of me which is a magnificent building of course although Yes And his name all over it Oh absolutely absolutely it say but he he always knew he was going to do something he. It was just he had thought in a Dr and he knew it but it didn't surprise him that he had that takes a vision and he also had had a major a retrospective. Earlier but 20 years earlier in the Scottish National Gallery of Modern Art but. He was very honored and appreciate it a lot and. It was wonderful it was wonderful especially the one at that but this because it was just before he died this is and what was 820112012 he died 6 months later you my goodness tell me we think about Milnes bar I mean it was an amazing place in those days wasn't it because that was where a human down at the great Scottish port like to hold court and all of his pals who are also great poets in there oh yeah right like like Norman McKagan Robert guy and so on else all climb the road Milnes bar you must in quite a feat of creativity it was absolutely it was an inspiring on this fear and day we will John on Sunday Moffat his best friend and unbolt the pilot about to get on and build the poets and of course they made friends with all of these poor it's so and what inspired by them in their own way so it was the whole atmosphere surrounding our days at the art college where Sue says stimulating and exciting. You have a colorful life together to put it very mildly and. You're with YOUR With John it as lowest point when he needs a liver transplant you're with him as he recovers to take huge international acclaim and being home in the Met in New York and also on their things and then and people take him up David Bowie apart light takes him up because he's always admired his work he was Yes Well David we didn't know anything about David owning some of John's work until well after his John had another retrospective at the same time gonna be in London and him. It was sometime after that that we were told by the Serpentine that David Bowie had bought a couple of paintings but also that he had already own some of John's who were and was a great fan and not only that but he'd like to come and meet him so that was a great surprise to us and it was a great boost for John because he was he was literally dying in that time we didn't know is going to have a transplant we hoped but you know and so when David invited him for lunch and he came and it was it was the most wonderful meeting because it was a fellow traveler it was somebody who was searching out the very things that John was searching at and the whole lot of us were searching out and it was a meeting of minds and great great a sense of humor and life that love of life I think for the past about telling Bellamy there the wife of the Scottish artist John Bellamy speaking to roll charge a little bit earlier on in the year it's going to have past 3 Not good morning on digital B.B.C. So. This is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live the news headlines here's Alice Rozental Jeremy Corbin's table the motion of no confidence in the prime minister is because the reason I told parliament it wouldn't get a vote on her breakfast deal in till mid January Downing Street sources say ministers won't give the mission any time billions of pounds have been wiped off shares in return after the online fashion Giants a source issued a profit warning the firm says the sector is in unprecedented levels of discounting reports for the U.S. Senate say Russia used every major social media platforms to help Donald Trump win the presidential election resurgence say platforms including You Tube and Facebook were used to spread propaganda and a hotel in hotels as it will put up a group of homeless people over Christmas after their original venue cancelled the booking the health and Doubletree is offering them rooms for 2 nights a. Well as Christmas lunch and breakfast sport now is Shabnam Trami Rovers boss Mickey Mallon says it'll take a bit of time to sink in that they'll be playing Tottenham in the F.A. Cup 3rd round in January but he decided through after beating Southport to nail in the 2nd round replay these maidens Dobby finished goalless but the draw Dobby County has made Nottingham Forest to within a points off the Championship play off places and will be staying at Manchester United until 2020 it's after the club triggered the option of a year's extension on the forward contract Chelsea's 5 year dominance of the F.A. Youth Cup is over after a $43.00 said round exit at Manchester United they'll face Brighton in the next round the Champions League last 16 and Europa League last 32 draws have been made you can head to the B.B.C. Sport websites for details and all Staten Island forward in Henderson will miss most of next year's 6 Nations because of a thumb injury Lately I've. 5 Live. For this is a ball not for cheese day the 18th of December is time now for a game all in this way clearly can be on the realms of games and Adam's been talking to Richard Morgan He's the author of Altered Carbon and he's got a new book out called thin little bit of a warning for you though this interview does contain some strong language. hello this is game on and i'm add musser this week um speaking to you all for richard morgan they adaptation of his 1st book altered carbon debuted on the net flix streaming service this year it's slick mix of transhumanism dystopian e own wa and morgan's persuasive worldbuilding made it a hit and this been picked up for a 2nd season thin air morgan's latest book has just come out this novel to set on a man's where the human population shelter beneath the lamina screens the keep a breathable atmosphere over the city's the hug the red planet's surface morgan's hero this time is hakken veil a man with naturally a complex past and his man's is as corruptions soaked and backstabbing as the forty's nor novels the all for appears to be riffing off when we spoke i asked him why had creates the protectionist who's not on like a jack reacher a highly capable individual who can hit the ground running something you'd done with to k. She kovacs in altered qana been richard told me he'd only started one reach a novel and here's a warning this interview contains some strong language i think we're all in love with these hyper compton male hero figures you know i don't the i'm anything unusual in that both as a rush around as it it as a known as a human being as a consumer of entertainment we all like the idea of it and i think where i park company from shore really charles is that i don't believe that we should see these guys as a good things i accept that we thrills for their activities on we enjoy the idea of writing on the shoulder of kind of being them for a day but i don't believe in the the sort of measured applicability of kind of thing and i think there is always fall out there is always village and there is always collateral damage if you like as a result of the activities of met like that all women like that i mean there are a few women like that as well and so my 8 dr has always been you know counter a counter to read joe who raises what impeccable arrow thyca my drive has always bring to create these characters and to make them to give them something on likable to give them something that might gives you pause place in the makes you think oh maybe our would like to be this guy you know it's it's a truism that i the we've all my protagonist always trying get them to do something i'm forgivable on an acceptable fairly early on in the narrative because you need the distance on that you know that this if it can't they are trying to see the you have to take a measured the oh of of what you're up buying into their and i think that was my problem with echo burning and and by extension i assume the rest of the reach of books is the sort of unconditional acceptance of the heroes figger and i own never that's never been me that's why don't set anything like the amount that lee churned cells of course as well because people do want that they want and unconditional hero they want some on they can just root for not worry about the collateral damage i find that a little bit irresponsible as a as up you know as an attitude unless your going to put a sticker on that the somewhere the says you know do know in any way attempt to try this at home there i i think we have a duty of care to our to add here only false if you like to bring with it all the battle ship that if you look back you will find in in the here only thought so many to go back to the norse sagas and they heroes in lows where your back to the greek myths on the heroes in those they're all deeply deeply flawed characters who all occasion behave in a pulling french and i and i think that's important it's important to realize you know violence is not a good thing violence is a bad thing it's inherent in who we are it's inherently in the human animal and it's you know it's it's it's kind of unavoidable and we have appetite for it and i don't there's anything wrong that knowledge ng that i mean even to some extent feeding the appetite in the the arena or of and to time of but i do think it should come with a kathy at it should come with with a forcible remind of what your buying into because otherwise it's yeah i think you can very easily lose sight of of the real the of the realities and it obviously it's fiction you know and it's entertainment so to some extent we're not trying to You know to bring reality in in all its glory but at the same time I do think it's important fiction should bear some witness to reality so that's why Yeah guys like . You won't ever see them tipping their hat to a young lady in the middle of a fight because they're too bloody busy trying to slaughter whoever the person is that they are dealing with and if the lady at the counter is a bystander and gets in the way well tough luck for her that is the reality and that's what I try and at least gesture towards when I'm writing this stuff one of the signature weapons that Hakon veil uses is a thing which uses American air bursts up munition yet which gets within 30 centimeters of somebody and goes off with a terrible one pleasant scene in the book where you talk about him basically luring people to see where they are and then firing multiple shots up at them and then dealing with the debris as it limits debris I even use the word debris to talk about people in a hard go from being a life that in an instant in an area effect weapon that's like kind of moment isn't it yeah absolutely it's he's equipped with with brutal force in one form or another and the problem is that once you flip that switch once this guy is unleashed in whatever context that's it you know all that's are off and you know I'm very uncomfortable with the with the idea of this with the nightly heroes who can sort of fight savagely and you know and we but at the same time somehow is maintaining this this kind of nightly composure which which allows a white picket fence attitude as well and we sing time and time again this just isn't the case you know in war trustees are committed even by soldiers who perhaps 10 minutes before were not dreamed of doing nothing yet about a strong gun is I like the fact that he's so indiscriminate and it's a weapon that he basically pulls in extremist it's like well I really don't actually care who gets in the way of this because I'm just trying to stay alive yes and then you're left with a bunch of sort of screaming crawl. Being bleeding dying humans and you have to do something about that as well which I think again I think is very important I think far too often in our heroic fiction the bad guys just fall down and die you know and it's all very clinical and clean and you don't have to worry about the idea that you could shoot someone or stab someone or you know chop a somewhat and they will die eventually but by God it's going to take a long time and by God it's going to sound horrible while it's going on you know that's to me that's the kind of visual reminder that this fiction should question always carry Yeah I think in one moment violently sits next to someone as they die it doesn't need he recognizes that that is happening yeah yes I mean he's not without compassion he's not you know he's he's having dealt with the situation in that particular scene you're talking about how he dealt with the situation and there is no further danger and he just sort of moved by some sort twinge of compassion that this this young guy is dying and and yeah sure I'll hold your hand while you die why not but he's doing it in a very absolute fashion as a sort of I guess in the way battlefield medic would give somebody more thing or something he does that that's the flash of compassion you see that he's not a monster you see the in there is there all the the elements of a decent human being as well because again we all you know we all are that we're not these black and white couple cutouts people who commit all sorts of horrible acts do then you know have this aspect of themselves that is humane and caring to certain people it's all part of the paradox of who we are as humans there's a quote from an interview you did quite some time ago now this has society is always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an elite enforced by thugs uniformed or not and up held by willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the majority whom the system oppresses just to feel like that I think I see that very clearly in the book in these days of bricks and Trump I feel that more than ever Yes because I think the key ingredient here is the willful ignorance it's much harder to oppress people if people are aware. If there are a question and don't like it you don't need necessarily heroes you beat you just need large numbers of people to realize that this is not acceptable but the problem lies in when when you can convince large numbers of people that it's perfectly acceptable either because it's not happening to them personally or because you've sold them some shit about necessary sacrifice. That is where the problem lies and yet I would say that. You know you can polish it up you're thugs can be better or worse behave you can't you know the U.S. Military for example I do think is probably the best of breed exemplar of our national military force you know there is an enormous amount of time and effort poured into the moral waging of war that you know the rules of engagement the way that our soldiers are sort of conditioned and taught what they may or may not do and and the kind of the backstop to that being the fact that they can actually be accused of war crimes brought to trial and imprisoned by their own side so you can try and make things better I think it's always an unhealthy to put to imagine that things can ever be made better but when it comes down to it it still is fundamentally about the rule of force and unfortunately that's a human constant you know all no matter what kind of lonely society you live in it is ultimately up held by by a system of force because you have to have something in place to stop people stepping out of the lines that you've drawn so that will always be there and yes I think as long as we maintain populations who are at best sketchily educated then we're always going to have this dynamic where basically the demagogues and will climb to the top of the pile and fool enough people that they can exploit them and slap down the few people who try to protest it does seem to be a common dynamic and I mean you know back when I 1st wrote that was the ninety's and if you remember the ninety's well nice things have not got better since then if anything the trend seems to be away there's a lot more a lot more straw man politics in the world. Lot more oppression a lot more validation of oppression I think that's what's the most scary thing is the way that you can have someone like you know the trunk of ministration can put children to cages and somewhere you'll have a bunch who will actually come out and Shelly and say oh well you know it can't be helped it can't be avoided it's their fault because they came here in the 1st place there will be some excuse for the atrocities and that's the most scary thing I think social media empowers those voices doesn't and it means the voice the might have been on a street corner once is now on a street corner but also speaking to other street corners some of tiny Asli and we get that kind of echoing effect somewhere not echo amplification you know I mean that is true but I don't think I mean I think that's very much a double play because obviously for every race it can find himself a bunch of like minded long line you've also got people who can band together to achieve great things and to the honest with you if you go back 3 internet and you know sort of Free the freeing up of the information on a global scale it's not things went any better I mean if you look at the way countries used to behave back in the cold war period it's absolute disgraceful they are not buying into this idea that all the new tech has kind of set loose a demon I mean it's changed the dynamics it's changed the rules of engagement and it's brought up a whole new set of problems the underlying problems are the same and that is just bad behavior for want of a better word it is bullying that's what it really comes down to you know all through the Cold War Britain and America both and I speak here not someone who sort of I'm not into this fashionable despise the west thing that are going on so much the fact but Britain and America behaved appallingly time and time again during the Cold War period they committed all sorts of horrific crimes I mean you got the Reagan administration in promoting terrorism in the kharab you are mining Nicaraguan harbors funding what were essentially death squads the British behave no better in various places around the world and the. One that I sort of come back to time and time again because it's still a kind of running sore is they take us islanders who were basically dispossessed taken from the allowed because the British wanted to hand the traders arms to the Americans as a long range bombers but yes they were thrown out they were literally taken force marginal ships taken away from territory that they belong to them that they lived on dumped in Madagascar and just told to get on with it and they have never been allowed back they've never been allowed. And the British government continues to pull out all the stops to prevent them from having right to most recently David Miliband when he was foreign secretary he spent 5000000 quid of my money on ensuring that the Shakers Islanders demand for compensation right return was denied by the lot so it isn't that countries of all suddenly started behaving much worse and it's because we're all so sure William and I was going on is because on social media we see much more of it we're more attentive to it than we used to. You know I think the amplification of small voices is not in itself a bad thing I think it's just a new dynamic and we're going to have to learn the rules and learn to you know have to swim with that but I don't think it's making things worse in any way not so let me correct that it is making certain things worse in certain specific cases but it is also making certain other things much better so it's very much a mixed blessing like all technology Texaco banks I think in the 1st book talks about the way the envoy and he's a UN envoy put them in something completely different and in your universe there arrives with almost like a blank slate attitude to a situation and just assimilate stater That's the 1st job of the invoice to see is to get a feel for where they are and assimilate that kind of data and this social media is part of that that free flowing assimilation is now but he misses stuff and things passing by and nuance passes him by these visitors to these realities which is what he is and what to a degree Hakon violence there there you interesting characters to rights because. They are people can lie to them people can be unreliable and they have to navigate that world Yeah absolutely and again this is where I really stumble with the or really struggle with with the kind of the Marvel Superhero thing because where's the fun in a character who is always right who is always doing the right thing who you know who's never grumpy who never you know just because they weren't paying attention I mean that's what it is to be human with the sum total of the mistakes we make obviously it's much more interesting as a creator to write a character who does who has 4 balls and failings and you know and will make mistakes and how much do you know how much more interesting will that make the plot if as a result of those mistakes certain things you know happened that shouldn't have happened without wishing to give too much away about finesse there's a there's something the veil did in his backstory before the novel begins that has landed him where he years and most of us looking at it would say that it was a good thing that he did although we're not clear too clear on the tales but we have to take a leap of faith and assume that what he did was actually a good thing you know a humane thing but it has been a catastrophic mistake for him and he remembers it as an era he remembers it as something that he shouldn't have done that he wishes he added And I think you know those kind of contrasts where you do a good thing but you regret it or you know you do a bad thing about it was for the right reasons this is the meat of being human and I've never really understood people who want to read their own characters who don't have who are unfailingly unflinchingly correct and righteous in everything that they do I mean I've never met anyone like that and I don't want to. Unfailingly correct character wouldn't the briefing where he's been told by his lawyer these oh i lawyer he's going to be getting off quite lightly by being dismissed from the service wouldn't provide that man into a fine 25 which you know most certainly when and when and great cost to the other individual Oh absolutely yes I mean I'm. The point about Vale and again this is an important thing I think we very often miss is that he likes to fight to be honest it's not really it bred into it when I say the 2nd trimester I think is the phrase Usenet Yes he's been engineer you know with certain tendency to be honest I mean like that if you if you want you can read that as a very basic metaphor for being a male human because I think you know as males we broadly speaking I mean obviously this doesn't apply everybody has a male but broadly speaking I think males come into the world with the sort of spring loaded testosterone over overcharge which could make such an act of violence we're comfortable with we like the idea. And especially when we're young and when we're not you know paying attention to risk factors so much we do get ourselves into all sorts of trouble because of this appetite for risk and his appetite for chest beating if you like in that scene he's pissed off he's angry with what's been done to him and here is a man in a suit in front of him who he can he can make a representative of the people who you know who are doing this to him so why not yet provoke the guy and then when he when he steps up absolutely terrible and feel better as a result that's the thing you know Ringle S.K.F. Is another one of your heroes number one somebody who really is fully living with the the whites of his past mistakes or what he sees as past mistakes is his name that's the character one of the lead characters in the still remains which is part of land for heroes trilogy trilogies you seem to like writing trilogies William Gibson is the same he writes trios of books why in that format who does it something particular about the trilogy that allows a satisfying arc to a character I don't know it's like one of those things it's like you know it's like 7 being in a magic number and all these different cultures I honestly don't know what it is about 3 there's a saying a kind of room where the saying comes from but if it's in the beginning of Goldfinger the Bond book and it goes once is happenstance twice is coincidence but 3 times is any reaction. And I think there's there's an element of that isn't there it's like you know you write one book it's a book you write and you sort of extended the world you know you've created something a little bit larger you do 3 and I think most of us I can't speak obviously for Gibson or other writers but I think you do 3 and you feel yeah I'm for it that's it I'm done now I've kind of had my fun life I've extended the range certainly what I found with with both the fantasy trilogy and with the Kovacs books well I mean the gospels are not really a trilogy in the sense that they don't have you could read any one of them as a standalone you would have to go back the other 10 if you don't want to so they're not a trilogy in the sense that most fantasy novels trilogies are actually but I think yes it takes 3 books maybe to sort of fully realize the world that you've imagined the context that you wanted to explore but I have always found with by the time I get to the book it's starting to feel a little bit stale it's starting to be yeah I'm glad I don't have to do one more of these and I don't know why that is I mean I say it is weird that it should be 3 time but it does seem to they as you say other writers do seem to pursue this line even if they haven't consciously chosen a trilogy although of course you are starting to see you know with things like I'm Thrones you are starting to see a much more extended ranges of books famously George R.R. Martin intended to write Game of Thrones as a trilogy and he just basically couldn't cram it all in so it just kept extending itself you know that's obviously I think maybe the writers who are much more deeply invested in their worldbuilding who you know who guys like Tolkien for example who you know and love the idea of the world they were creating and could sort of disappear inside it maybe if you're somebody like that you're always like haven't explored what's going on over here and well what about if we go and have a look at what happens to this guy's children but I tend to find out after the by the end of the 3rd book I'm like yeah I'm done now I need to go and invent something else he seemed to come to these things with a very complete kind of sense of the political economies of the world you've got the quests here in the film. Bomb there in the foreground as well as in the background of the Kovacs books you've also got some cran or sacred mama CROSSFIRE Howard so not surprisingly espresso crowned the top of the Protel leader of a kind of resistance that spread across the ecliptic across the the plain of our solar system I'm not quite sure where where that can carrot and lies in the land of Heroes series which I be honest with you I find I'm going to get I've read it I don't think I understand it. Well is that the reason I mean it's the thing I always thought anyway it's not not the truth you know the truth but one of the things about fantasy that I've always liked is that it is very conditional you don't have to make sense at the same level as science fiction does for example because by definition science fiction novel science fiction as a as a construct posits that even if you don't understand something in the world you could theoretically now a fantasy doesn't do that fantasy is going back to the old atavistic urges and sort of the kind of the religious impulse and and it's saying there are things out there great darkness is unknown or whatever and there are no you can't know them don't even bother trying to know them so it's a different way of operating and I For me the fun of fantasy writing those 3 books what I could just throw shit in and not have to explain it and in fact people have come back to me a number of times and asked me say about for example about the helmsman in landed you know books so yeah the helmsmen you know they talk about them as demons but really they're artificial intelligence is only they're really computer super computers and I'm like I don't know. Maybe you know I quite literally never pin that down I didn't have any quick decide OK these are really that are regarded as gods or demons because people are too ignorant to understand them or ready are these actually really doing it wasn't important to me to and it didn't matter you know any fact half of the. Joy of it was that you don't you know they are unknowable they are something weird and scary and that's enough you know you know you're fine with them once you start nailing things down it stops really being fantasy and I've never really understood the kind of fantasy that has you know very carefully measured in detail systems of magic where you can work out what is and isn't allowed to happen because the there's a rubric to how the magic works and to me that since has to be magic it's not I mean the whole claim about magic is you can't work it out it's it's it's dark and unknowable and comes out of left field and you know. It's the other it's the thing that you can't get a hold of so if you don't understand those books it's basically because you know they're not necessarily understandable in the same way as the science fiction is. You know I left a lot of latitude in that there's a lot of things that might be one thing or might be another thing I just didn't tidy up because I didn't that's the joy of fantasy you don't have to tidy up it's yeah it's a you're not the only one I mean are. A lot of readers have come to me sort of going Yeah but what does this mean what does that mean and in a lot of cases I was the can't help you because I don't know what it means I just threw it in because it looked and felt cool and it kind of did the job I did it at the time I asked Ben a run of it choose written the folly series of books about the the how magic works in His universe has it all when and how can you then he said no I'm not works you don't need to that's not your job your job is the reader is to just believe what I thought you know read and enjoy wine telling is not to see how it works he doesn't need to feel the need to show he's working yeah but a science fiction audience will turn around and go oh but even if they're presented with F.T.L. Drives faster than light drives they'll still want to kind of understand how they work and you sidestep that a little bit in in the code that she books by having the no F.T.L. I think is that right and the only thing it goes faster than you. And I mean to be honest I stole this idea from a Golden Age science fiction article called Anderson. The idea that any human has mass can't travel faster than light because of understanding physics but the idea is that the data has no mass you know it's just a signal and because it has no mass it's not subject to the same laws so you're able to actually transmit data and therefore human consciousness turned into a digital code you could transmit and while in the book says as near to instantaneously that the scientists are still arguing about the terminology but you still can't go anywhere faster than light and so you know transport between between stars is still Laureus least slow. That's what the employees are for you know they're sent as data because they're into rapid intervention force so if you've got a revolution kicking off 20 light years from ARM there's no way you can send a naval fleet because by the time they get there you know that they'll be there in time to Chris the grandchildren of the people who want well as Richard Morgan they're talking to Adam in this week's edition of game on he's the author of Altered Carbon and his new book Silent thin air that's Richard not obviously hopefully enjoy that you know is going on the B.B.C. Signs up don't forget as well if you do missile addition of game on just to keep you updated with some cricket news the news from Australia or the Australians have beaten India in the 2nd Test in Perth and they were chasing 287 to win and take a tuna lead in the series were bowled out for $140.00. Hour and 5 minutes this morning for this training strap up when with Bud Cummins taken the final wicket of just be bomber caught and bowled for a duck at 1st says one for this training teams that they want to Durban INSIDE AFRICA So there you go that is when the whole sandpaper get kicked off some news for you just in the past few minutes that is to bring you now are coming up after 4 this morning we're going to be joined by Rahul Tandon we're going to talk more cricket yeah yeah with our man in India ever before that I just got to read something to you I was just flicking through the front pages of the morning newspapers that the front page of The Sun. Roof Earle's is the headline Yorkshire tea has sparked uproar because of its new eco friendly tea bag apparently they're written Cup as by falling apart people are one set of shambolic every T.V. We've tried is split I took to Twitter actually because that's what you do these days is not to gauge the mood of the people it's true there's a bit of an uproar on Twitter about York City but fair play to them with what they do even though they've taken out the plastic element to the tee by Maybe they have to perfect it a little bit better but you know they're trying their best and they responded to people's tweets as well so you know. For after all of this I'm just looking up missing. Their very best of all at the moment apparently that's what one person said of her lover always fascinating Thanks B.B.C. Radio 5 Live welcome to your B.B.C. Local radio station on Tuesday the 18th of December it's B.B.C. Sport 4 o'clock Good morning Graeme Bernard in for what he wear PIPER Well this morning consumers will be required to pay a return to board deposit for bottles cans and disposable cups on the plans outlined in the government's new wave strategy for England weekly food waste collections for every household will be introduced and recycling will be made more consistent between local authorities with simpler labeling to make disposing of rubbish easier also in the news this morning the cabinet will meet today to discuss the government's readiness for a no deal breaks it they're set to decide whether preparations should be ramped up Downing Street is also challenge labor to come forward of the formal motion of no confidence in the government after dismissing Jeremy Coburn's demands for a Commons vote on to resume a position as prime minister the shadow trade secretary Barry Gardner explained his party's thinking the point of it is to increase the pressure on the prime minister and on conservative members of parliament 117 of whom voted against the prime minister in their own private vote of no confidence last week we know there is not a majority in the House of Commons that supports the prime minister if they were not afraid of showing that. They would come and they would make time for that debate the role regulates or wants to encourage greater competition by making it easier for therms to run services alongside existing franchises the office of rail and road says it will make changes to allow more trains to be run under so-called open access agreements Here's our transport correspondent Tom bridge around one percent of trains are operated under what's known as open access agreements Grand Central for example runs a small number of trains from Sunderland and Bradford to London even though the vast majority of services on that part of the network are run by the operator in charge of the broader franchise the rail regulator says these open access train contracts have created more competition making tickets cheaper and service is better in the New Year the office of road and rail.