The main 5 life people were killed in a crash between a plane and a helicopter. Chris Coleman leaves Wales and prepares to join. The. Accident Investigation work will resume later this morning at the site in Buckinghamshire where a helicopter and plane came down after colliding midair 4 people were killed 2 in each aircraft Commodore Di Whittingham is head of the U.K.'s safety committee the understand was a. High wing monoplane and we may find that had a bearing on what happened because visibility from areas to look up through the wing to see something that's above you it tends to be pretty catastrophic if a helicopter touches another airplane in flight. One of Philip Hammond's oldest friends says he expects the chancellor to use next week's budget to appeal to voters who left the conservatives at the general election the foreign minister Stephen Hammond is predicting he'll use headroom in the u.k. Finances to promise money for housing in health care. Zimbabwe and state media reporting that regional branches of Robert Mugabe's Zanu p.f. Party have passed a vote of no confidence in him they're expected to be protest marches later calling for the president to stand down following the military takeover Accor spawn it in Zimbabwe is for King on Sunday Monday into Tuesday perhaps we're going to see more activity as a political party level but also possibly in Parliament all aimed at removing him not just from the leadership of the new p.f. The ruling party but also from the presidency of the country so my expectation is that by early next week matters will have been resolved the Irish government says it wants a written commitment to avoiding a new physical border with Northern Ireland before the breaks it talks move on to trade is accusing u.k. Of failing to offer a concrete solution to the issue of the U.K.'s only land frontier with the e.u. They would come abandonment is a conservative m.e.p. Like the common travel there will be a common customs probably covering the whole of the British are those but I would solve the problem of the border and also others only on the island of Ireland you have that issue you know we can work this through but we need more crates of it say from all sides the b.b.c. Understands the government may have to spend half a 1000000000 pounds putting right misc mistakes in paying Employment and Support Allowance 75000 people were underpaid between 20112015. It's been reported an Argentine submarine that disappeared 2 days ago with $44.00 crew on board has been found Local media say rescue is located it stranded without power in the South Atlantic at a depth of 70 meters Malcolm numbs is an intelligence expert if they've lost power that means that all the generators are off they were running on average and these very sophisticated German submarines like they were operated on have batteries over Louden the stay under water for a day at a time so that's what most likely has saved. And the u.s. Navy has confirmed that its pilots were responsible for a vapor trail penis drawn in the sky over Washington State commanders have described it is absolutely unacceptable and have ordered an inquiry into the sport now English cricketers are into the last day of their final tour match against Cricket Australia before the Ashes gets underway next week an amount for it is watching in Townsville it's much the Cricket Australia Lebanon chill 108 to 3 up to straighten morning for England with no breakthroughs in the session Craig Overton was hoping to impress to push his case for selection next week he's been little expensive exceeding 44 in his 12 and Mo now he has a pretty threaten to try to find his rhythm ahead of the Test match cricket Australia and now only 57 runs behind we can now get the rest of the sport with soccer Chris Coleman's left the Wales manager's job to take charge of Sunderland the Championship club are expected to confirm his appointment in the next few days the Football Association of Wales meanwhile say they're extremely disappointed to see Coleman's tenure come to an end elsewhere it's understood that Northern Ireland boss Michael O'Neill will speak to the Scottish f.a. About the Scala manager's job in the coming days Sheffield United be Berton $31.00 to return to the top of the championship Preston and Bolton shared a goal of straw Andy Murray has mutually agreed to end his relationship with Coach Van Lendl for a 2nd time in his 2nd spell with Lendl Murray won his 2nd Wimbledon title and his 2nd limpid gold in Rio Jamie Marie and his partner Bruno Suarez are through to the semifinals of the doubles at the a.t.p. Tour Finals in London they beat Lucas and Marcello Melo in rugby union's Premiership Gloucester came from behind to be the league leave the thousands 2317 and in the women's rugby England thrashed Canada 79 points to 5 this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital on the smartphone and tablet the weather as we work our way through the night turning cold and frosty across southern and eastern parts of the u.k. While clouds and rain reach as well. On the southwest by the morning sun today looking cloudy and damp across southern and some western parts in some patchy rain drier and sunny a bit cold in the northeast but blustery showers continuing across the northeast Scotland expect highs of a to Manchester and 10 in Cardiff. No sales coming out is scary enough without it being a Muslim always on calming myself saying to myself yes way to with the ways original America a country that's become increasingly plagued by always. B.b.c. 3 available on b.b.c. I Player. With the before we go forward voted this is culture with the headlines so I've got this going through knowing the program of The Washington Post for those who disagree Good morning show which we start nor the topics you want to talk about which is your headline story in the program. Talking about sexual assault and one of the allegations going around over everyone the interesting part today we're seeing it last night let's hear President Trump actually treated I mean I just think this is a long time that tweeted against the Democratic Senate. Coming out and apologizing to a woman because. He was traveling in. The plane. When they were supposed to. They were doing and all so he was for a picture he pretended to be touching inappropriately and solute Trump really took it to town and he said that was very bad. And so basically and also continued saying by. Criticizing everybody else about this. And he somehow didn't standing by the kissing because Trump himself has been accused of. Maybe having missed you know appropriately but. About a dozen women come across let's can call during that can mount during the campaign so this is all talk and up everyone else to come out and talk about all the way back to the ninety's about Bill Clinton that is ations he faced and yesterday a senator from New York who replaced Hillary Clinton in the Senate Kirsten Gillibrand he she said maybe looking back at it today maybe Bill Clinton should actually been forced to resign after the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke so now America is kind of looking back and seeing how far we go to goal but conveniently for. Trump he only talks about the people who are Democrats or the people who are financing the Democratic campaigns late however instead of the Hollywood mogul who give a lot of money to all the. School supplies there is a commitment from from the and there are no you know the interesting part is he was asked his spokeswoman and buys is vast today so how come he's not saying that the about Mark is about Obama the senate candidate for Republicans who has been accused of misbehaving with the girls as young as 14 when he was in the thirty's and she said his spokesman and after the. Conway said all the and Roger Moore are almost story is 8 days old an African story is fresh and another thing as Al Franken has admitted to wrong doing and President Trump has not so President Tom doesn't have to talk about it as. Claims against him because he has a method that. He doesn't have to talk about more because there's. Oh the stories about. The real He's standing on the Republican banner isn't he yes. All the other Republicans in Washington I've been saying this month. Then all this is. Saying that there is a special place in. The saddle and that was Madeline Albright quote wasn't as. You say yeah none of those other people standing for reelection on the Republican ticket and. Anybody. Yeah yeah yeah he was. Saying as a journalist as a jillion is you know the it's not unusual that he's playing. If you like of yeah. Yeah yeah like I like kids also even. The campaign for Ron Moore's up and then during the primary it's like you didn't even know that so he has a lot of. Gaps to get out of. Him and in a way it's Mr Trump has kept you in work for a real Yeah I'm not saying that you would have had work otherwise but you know he's kept me and you work. And the company does it. Does it can thanks very much it does good. Naira Jaan appearance then sir of the Washington Post let's kick off the voted. Yeah the real sounds of Africa it's a once again kickoff move. And this what it would soak in full in Africa we have of course the oracle of African Football Mowgli's who are all spring ball could you know. Good morning so I'm very well you're in Cape Town so you get our. Lovely weekend you know I always feel that when we play the real sounds of Africa it's a kickoff. That we're actually playing the African football I'm from Robin the South American I mean go on yeah I don't disagree about I was perplexed by that by the very if they see we're playing in the polls or playing in Naples where. It's safe to make Yeah they're African axes you know what about that. They're very good Christian and also they need to carry a little hasn't been. Kicking pool from the back on. The other side the Rio. American from one president of the plane on his good morning. To boning after events in. Yeah excuse my Russian pronunciation if that's wrong I'm expecting some kind of Pan African Alliance turned away from from the police and I did by you instead of which you're just squabbling amongst yourselves already you know doing the pair of you didn't know we're talking philosophy tonight we took in philosophy they feel. Right now if we're going to talk philosophy here then let me get this one in because Venezuela Iran in the wake of friendly for Iran have qualified for the Woke up and then as white I became very very philosophical at home for time they substituted Archimedes and they brought on Aristotle he said that's a true story it's a true story I'll keep eating spaghetti. You shoot your device but I do still to Mr Romeo so. One of them very very classical and you just reminded me of that Monty Python sketch was it a great loss that wasn't and that's why Iran won one nil that you know the Venezuelan midfield will be kind of wandering around muttering little philosophical shibboleths and they couldn't cope with Iran on that one occasion when Iran managed to breach that defensive line that we have good evening everyone Good evening to you we have bonafide a philosopher with us this morning Simon Critchley go book out called What We Think about when we think about football Simon Good morning good morning Towson But what about the. Comedians being Ok these kinds of person are still. In Socrates on the punch of course it's a coup has always Novak and by was something of a surprise selection. I can sit here with this job and you know if it is in the high degree I do. Count or they go in any case I want to back about Ok so this morning oh don't bother me I've got another one because that's a. Good one it's not bad but mine is Heidegger Heidegger is about being somewhat of a beggar for the ball but let's leave it at that. Yeah so this would be one calls and questions on football in Africa and South America and plays from over there playing Ollie's but we also want generic questions now because Simon is the author of looking at football from a philosophical perspective but I ask him some of those questions that perhaps a lot of people think about Simon but never really Oswal kind of questions. Time space Well what do we think about when we move well we think we think we think about football Well we think about all sorts of things and we were sat at a certain distance from the game we're watching it on full We're full watching the game there's the use of you know full speed many about rational dialogue back in full there's a lot in conversations about football baseball the ball in one trying to do is to get. To evoke a poetics of the game and to show how things like time space passion reality and fiction and ethics and politics and also the stuff and I'm policy get politics and you know I begin with this discussion of socialism and stuff so you've got to. Go everywhere in interest every year you go little children of our little people pleaser read on the bed if you get a read on the bed though we have that we have a common. Background we both went to the University of Essex No really you have there yeah yeah I think words like I think we were direct intentional letters to write a book. I know we were content for Israel yeah I graduated in 185 with my saying philosophy what were you in the Philosophy Department with the law was of the great Professor French awfully I was French of he persuaded me stewed philosophy in 1982 he was the most brilliant mind and I literally cried when I was on air a cry to myself not in public when I was on and I died in our newsroom died a book just came out about him called a philosopher in shirtsleeves which is about Chelsea and I wrote something about shelf years ago for The New York Times he was a he was extraordinary going to almost nothing you know documented like this one tape of him speaking but all those fantastic lectures he gave nothing is preserved I do apologize because we need to have a philosophy conversation and over time I will have a particular philosophy phone in but let me just say very quickly Frank Schaeffer that we're talking about his lectures were over subscribed is that about 2 or 3 of us 3 full time philosophy when I was a. Undergraduates but when he had a lecture people came from all sorts of departments to have this incredible guy and one day I fell on the floor when he was the scruffiest guy you'd ever see is Tris would be falling off his backside it was such a brilliant mind if he said to the Penguin edition of great expectations go to page 280. 3 off the job he said Look down to the 2nd paragraph and you hear Miss Havisham say this you go there it would be really there one day he said to us when I was in the Us Army I was in the scruffiest got it right right and he swears picture Armas underneath his clothes you know that's as we're talking about and he's only advice when I got a job at Essex in 1909 he's only advice to me was always check your fly before he's touch a chick which invites him which is stuck with me by members and he did have shoe laces and shoes he was a. Brilliant guy was really wonderful and we would have lost we found another time we got my footballs I'm good so helpful for now it's a deadly I'm sorry it's Reebok a judo mug What do you think about when you think about football if anything this brings to mind immediately you know that I think that contest. Tribalism very quickly I do think about in. Reference to something from a far watching the way. The Europeans left the game or the way they travelled to it the way they ferocious least corrosion Lisa call Bayside it's very different teaching to the consumption of football here yes a lot of sort of entertainment to the. Skills the. You know the going to the stadium on the day our 1st as sort of religious the following your team with well with a mess of passion and sort of you know override emotions so yeah I think those are the. You know the different consumption of the game is the thing that I think about a lot more often than I used to and because it is becoming even more and more different when you watch it on television you know what you're telling you're going to go on television and then you go to a domestic stadium you know. Simon Yeah absolutely I've never watched football in South Africa I'd love to but and I watch most of my football now because I've been New York for 13 years on television so the live experience of the games. I was I was a Torino calorie game ensuring a few weeks ago bus the worst of both worlds of in New York during the years so I don't know I missed the season and I'm back in the summer when there's no football so I'd missed the kind of the shift in the the live experience of the game and that would be some of the things that most talked about there the tribalism comes to mind Oh yeah absolutely tribalism Why is that part of football is a deep you know profound elemental passion that we have an attachment to place a sense of continuity you know I think with with many of us certainly with me my only real connection to my with my dad and with my where we're from Liverpool was that was the team and everything we talked about was was the team and this is powerful visceral sense of this is who we are and this is where we're from and this is what really matters and that's is about is not sort of also a desire a desire to belong I'll salute they said earlier you know people all the other chain really passionately for all fairness and all they genuinely in love with the side or are they definitely need to belong somewhere and join in and in some club but it's always coincidental who which colors you eventually wear which side you eventually support for and you need to go somewhere. Overriding is the overriding call every reset of. Patient team and goals and you you become. You become one with the side that you support you know phonetical a bucket but. The germination of that 1st move towards football is it's because I what I'm through Paul I really want to support the Reds use it because I need to do something I need to get in with this crowd or I need to belong Yeah it's very much more of that I need to need to belong just happened I belong to a scene that was pretty pretty good when I was growing up but I was talking to. Were guy the other week who's a fan and it shows you grew up in sorry sorry and ended up supporting Norwich because I like the colors and you know and Norah church of come and gone over the years but for for that person it was very much being passive the the fans every week and and that ruined that sense of identity that overage other things I had that moment when he was able to sing along with Delia Smith we are top of the league we are top of the league journey that moment was one Saturday anyway. What about you what would you think about when you. Think these days and we do and certainly this week I think Gleason will probably agree with me I think a lot about deadlines because you know it's for professional reasons I think mean Gleason of probably have the same experience we've had you know 32 World Cup teams have been. We've had to rush in lots of copy for any an issue of World Soccer Magazine or come out on that either draw so I think a lot about deadlines but from the point of view of the sport it's those 2 contradictory things the one that you've gone in depth about the identity. The communion and the need to belong and I think that some much of that explains the strengths of the foot of the phenomena of football you know in a world where technology increasingly atomizers having monkey. Elective experience is. Increasingly more necessary and increasingly more powerful so you've got that on the one hand but on the other you've got the entirely rational thing of Europe because your pieces are all on the chessboard so it seems election activity of how tame I are going to be seen so one of the that's one of things I love about football that you can approach it from an entirely passionate points of view and lose yourself in a collective but you can also stand back and enjoy the intellectual contest between the 2 teams of Who's idea is going to work better and you can probably do those 2 things which are opposite you can probably do 2 things at once think that that's part of the success of the game as well as. Its 10 toes they're about one scene beat the other but also mention the parameters or the restrictive parameters of football which is deadlines we know that happens over 90 minutes we know there's 45 minutes of each off and a little bit of extra time and you can when you watch a football match. Because nobody seeing and of last time and sought shelter in the loss of human it's would rather nail biting because you knew all depended upon the deadline the moment the referee blows the whistle from his offical perspective does that bring. Is it an existentialist there's a good old phenomenological it is my area my approach to football is phenomenological is a question of describing what shows up in their bodies phenomenological for those who don't know phenomenology is just the attempt to describe pretty reflective ordinary everyday involvement in the world and to try and find words to make that explicit So I mean one thing that philosophy has been trying to do in that tradition for the last century is talk about time and talk about the way in which this is where Martin Heidegger comes in is an exactly exactly because yeah the world is in German is something a very big design and. Time and it's is this is there is that being is time is very simple but the time our fundamental experience of time is not the time of the clock the 90 minutes is not a linear already it is a yes or a really getting going is that time can accelerate and d. Stein can contract they can shift and change if you're watching a football game you see that very clearly they'll be the objective measure of the game and then time can compress in a particularly fast sequence or it can in a can it can extend infinitely in injury time the way it seems to having obviously ever tried watching it watching a tense game with 2 fans of opposing sides when one of them is one nil up in the last few minutes because the 2 of them experience time in a completely different way right you know for that for the team is winning everything is happening so. The final whistle now after that I've had a fan of the team is losing it's all happening so quickly please please please slow the clock down and it's the same time but it's it's experience in different ways and this is a more educated things are going to be there relativity you know let's not forget Fergie time in the middle of it as well it's a different kind of time yeah it's hard but time is it's a football shows that time is not objective live time has these abs and flows and speeds up it slows down and. That kind of philosophical point is something we do when watching a game we experience that watching game and also the point about the the way in which football is at once this sense of you know belonging and this deep elemental stuff that not was talking about but the same time when Tim was saying it's intellectual and this is you can use this pull and this pull and push and pull that you can have that you can be completely immersed you know quietly fist pumping it or something like that you know and at the same time you can stand back and engage in a very kind of I do you want listeners to talk to us about their experiences if you like their yes offical spirit is of football's general questions as well for Simon and do you feel free to join us as well this morning and give us your experiences of football how you experience football I also want listeners to tell me about this is going back to the anecdote about the NORAD fan he still puts water north because of the colors so I want your your reasons for supporting the club that you support and the source of pathetic reasons are valid he wants I think knowledge because of the color rose colors make yellow. Green or yellow but you know his illegitimate reserves will be remembered we have the African go once he came on he said I'm a Newcastle for. New cause how did that get to Africa but he said a lot the stripes seem bristles with us by the way Good morning Steve good morning to all yeah Good morning you enjoy your philosophical conversation about. They're beyond. Scary with deep for me to be honest but I can see a couple of points a very well we're going to help and we're going to get on to Bill Shankly very soon you know because yeah Bill Shankly was doing that I. Want You have to. Every story before to your good. Yeah I want to ask you. You know it isn't about cold versus country. Good question now we've had. A few strolls from the England team with a few friendlies to our ear now fully fit to play in the Premier League this weekend. Doesn't happen in other countries in South America in Africa do they have. More pride in playing for Nec I'm Craig made to play Internet club or is that something that is a very. English if I can put it that way as a very good question in fact to get everybody to answer that and I think times got perspective on this in his chapter theatre of identity and none identity because we start with Mark for his will in Africa does that kind of thing happen or not yeah very very frequently and I think it added to the African expresses probably true South America as well as the travel the distance that you got to go and the 2nd has on you dick look ultimately all of these players are under huge pressure from the clubs when they have a little niggle with insulin necessary friendly yes perhaps these 2 England matches have been over the weekend over the last week. Or that combination really puts pressure on these players from the clubs to skip the international games and the Africans I think it particular do suffer from this because obviously economically their reliance on the clubs for for their income and the club see the strip spec the African continent as as a real burden on the player physically and as a necessary in the greater you know in the grey scheme of things as far as the club is concerned so African football as a kid to newly under pressure from a teams not to go and play from the clubs not to go play for the national side and a lot of them do. Get games when they can I mean victim oses of Chelsea is a is a good example and the Nigerians are all the worse for it because with every place they look like a decent side and win when he doesn't particularly last 12 months they don't. But but as far as pride to play for the national team is concerned you wrote you always have a few individuals see to make a point of coming to play and I do cynically also think the African players like going. Like getting a call up because the long trip home is paid for a and b. They get a good. Cold damp drab Europe for a few days little bit of home food little bit of familiarity language. So the vast majority I think still hold out against the clubs but there is an immense pressure on them I think people must be aware that you're fired him because I know it's a very different perspective from South America with him in Paris it begs the question about the kind of pressure this year I would support on African players as opposed to South American players so I mean this is where but Steve in Bristol let me tell you this result absolutely it's even British let me tell you this you are ahead on the good question being go for you I believe you are in the lead by a long shot by the way is a brilliant question will come but just remember Bear with us 1st has got the latest 5 headlines his robots. From the elite then anyone else this is b.b.c. 5 Live people have died following a midair collision over Buckinghamshire a light aircraft and a helicopter were involved in the incident near Watts then on an investigation is underway we see understands the chancellor intends to use next week's budget to tackle housing and health care issues is there Philip Hammond could use 26000000000 pounds of headroom in the public finances to target voters he left the conservatives at the last election. There's growing pressure on the Zimbabwe and President Robert Mugabe to step down at least 8 out of 10 regional branches of his Zanu p.f. Party have voted for him to resign. Peter Kay has announced 2 new episodes of car share one will be improvised the other is going to show what happens between the characters of John and Kaylee they'll both be shown on b.b.c. One next year now into the sporting As cricketers are into the 4th and final day of their last tour match aired the Ashes series starting next week watching their game against Cricket Australia is Adam out. After lunch to Cricket Australia 11208432 bill a frustration morning with no breakthroughs in that 1st session Jason sang he's on 74 he's a 1st 1st class half century Matt short on 46 blocks in the attack on a slow surface prego which I was hoping to impress to push his selection for next week but he's been little expensive sitting 44 of his 12 overs know an hour he hasn't really threatens he tries to find his rhythm had a Test match 17 I was 55 so far and he won real chance Sangar spill by stoma off Mason Cranor shot chance when he slapped a full toss the made of the great Australian 11 and now only 57 runs behind this is not betraying them want to win the Ashes just a few days away we can now get the rest of the sport which show to soccer Chris Coleman has left his job as the wells manager after almost 6 years in charge a 10 year during which he took them to the semifinals of the European Championship Coleman is expected to take over the championships bottom club Sunderland in the next few days Gregory is from the Sunderland Echo Star. Charge the last 2 weeks. Saga. For years no. Point. Meanwhile the b.b.c. Understands the Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill is set to hold talks with the Scottish f.a. About their managerial vacancy. Sheffield United are back on top of the Championship after a 31 win away at Burton Albion Preston and Bolton shared a goalless draw a deep Del Jos a merino has strongly criticised the England management for playing Manchester United defender Phil Jones in their friendly against Germany last week Jones needed painkilling injections before the game but he hobbled off after 24 minutes in 17 years as a manager I don't have one single player that has injections of anaesthetic to play a friend never never I'm not an actual And I've had players to be injected to official matches in crucial matches but the friendly to get seeks anaesthetic injections local to play a friendly and never heard about it Andy Murray and environmental have ended their coaching relationship by mutual consent in 2 spells together Mari won 3 Grand Slam titles 2 Olympic golds and became the world number one more from our tennis correspondent Russell fuller Murray's injury problems mean he has spent little time in Lendl's company this season but the latter's return to the fold 18 months ago was the spark for an extraordinary run of success Murray became world number one by winning a tournament between June and November including Wimbledon and the Rio Olympics their partnership fizzled out 1st time around as Murray returned from back surgery and there is a clear parallel 3 and a half years on finding a figure of Lendl stature to supplement the valuable work of Jamie Delgado may not be a pressing concern to Murray right now full fitness is his number one priority Meanwhile Jamie Murray and his partner Bruno Suarez are through to the semifinals of the doubles of the a.t.p. Tour Finals in London they beat a Lukas coup Botton Marcello mellow Grigor Dimitrov beat pub. In the final round robin match in the thing goals and in rugby union Gloucester came from behind to beat the Premiership leaders Saracens 2317 England's women thrashed Canada 79 points to 55 from 1st time and King what about the winner is it is this 5. It doesn't bother you could do worse things than to go see the Algerian or go to the 5 hour website and see the Algerian football coach having a pop at that journalist who he. Accuses of destroying our German football or is sitting right next to him if you drop would not be that is amazing if you know the French is well what you learn you learn French Well you know you learn French by watching them anyway well this war to get Africa South American players from over there playing in our leagues of calls we've got Springbok as you know Gleason over in Cape Town Called the legend Dino to victory in Rio we've got Simon Critchley in the States in New York you saw me in New York York Simon Critchley is a philosopher we've learned today that he and I are of the same alumni and Book is what we think about when we think about football we've got Stephen Bristol with us as well just remind us of the question that you. Simon and Tim's versions of that as well monitor the questions to. Yeah I was just saying there is the same. Country. America in Africa you know anywhere else in the world as there seems to be in England. Team in South America. It was a situation was very disappointed to see all of those England players pull out of the squad especially as I'd imagine the vast majority of them will be fit to play for their clubs at the weekend how many Brazilians Pola put out the squad to come to Wembley none on even the ones that weren't fully fit decided to stay with the squad and have treatment in the squad and try and get fit in the squad and stay in the squad because there's a World Cup coming and they want to be on that plane. There is a difference in portents always remember when have you mash it on when the Argentine 1st came across it was that it was a it was at Liverpool it was at Sam's Club and he just couldn't believe the lack of importance of the European players gave to point to the national teams whereas for him it was it was absolutely below an endo to play for the national team many here he still is you know at the age of what 33 and they need it he doesn't need it financially but he will fly here there and everywhere and he will play for the national team now that this is in no way a criticism of Alan Shearer no way but I remember him saying I was sitting next to him during the World Cup that it was a difficult decision for him to Mike but he gave up he retired playing for England when he was 30 because it was the only way to prolong his his Premier League career and he loved being captain of England difficult decision to take but that's the one that he took and if you look at shearers career he played a grand total of one international game outside Europe. In comparison the South Americans the sacrifices they make in that trip the young the air time and so on but the reason for this is that for these South American countries only specially Argentina Brazil and Europe why you know what do you think of when you think of these countries on the 1st or 2nd thing that you think of is a national football team and these these teams out there now extremely important to the identity of the country and the players do have I think more pride in playing for the national teams. Is the case with the Europeans and that moment when you line up for the national anthem is a moment of triumph you know it is the moment when the country is looking at unite the camera pans down you know the playa there is is it is kind of remind you know I mean I'm an Important that girl it's not me when I was poor or that teacher said I was going to amount to anything they're watching me now and they're cheering for me now because I'm important and I think that's a very very strong feeling which is perhaps stronger in South America in the same in the south kind of South America perhaps than it is anywhere else in the world as an opportunity to quote Biggie Smalls twice tonight I'm going to resist the opportunity what Tim said there when he talked about the teachers who said I wouldn't amount to anything because of course that was a line from a comment which one of them to say I was thinking the jam and you're thinking big difference between I'm going to come back onside because well because there is a reference that the juices and I seem to see thanks for that we've got a youngster in the house who knows his music could tell me all of this and by the way we've got direction in the House who started supporting Arsenal because she fancied calling for in the past it's a serious hit here there are all sorts of reasons behind Elysia this would seems and he was in fever pitch of course and she's delighted that Rob what's gave the information about pizza K.'s extended car share series news bulletin because she was so upset when it ended anyway and by the way she's also started seeing somebody else support I don't know which came 1st you know you know what I mean and Leslie that's one side I want to get to him brought in that conversation however Simon I said there's a chapter in your book where you talk about specifically 2 examples of national football allegiance one with regards to the Republic of Ireland or island as such and the other to do we've Serbia as well where does this and I'm particularly interested in hearing from a philosophical point of view the book by the. What we think about when we think about football yet when we think about club verses country where do we make those decisions how do footballers identify themselves is really the chapters about identities no yeah it is I think they the clubbers this country thing is is it's very delicate you know I think that what what Tim says is is absolutely right and I think the you know the squad the Brazil brought to England this week was you know impressive name hours there and I wonder what the you know if they don't show up for those games I wonder what happens to them you know where is the England players seem to be able to drift in and drift out so that there's a fundamentally different attitude and not as much for me as club you know for me it's clubs Liverpool a little pull you know the way I was brought up was in England but not all of England it was it was something else it was Shanklin it was mainly a huge Irish connection it was kind of the whole world so the sense of the connection a little porn Englishness has always been a little bit distant but I think that the way in which the you know the international break is greasy with a kind of you know a slow you know Xa lation a breath it's an interruption to the Premiership it's true the Premiership is really exciting but I think something has gone wrong in the structure of the English game in particular and the European game maybe in general on this front and the other side your man a case right and this is the counterexample side the amount he was injured the last time he played internationally came back got back and it seemed to really well the last game and then you know you were off you went again to go injured again or there's that there's a suspected hamstring pull we'll see whether he starts tomorrow against Southampton but you know that club or country pull a think is you know it's a delicate one burner and also it depends it depends where the country that you you're in you you'd like and you think are any good I mean you know being in England I'm not really an England fan but I'm English so it's England. And it's you know it's a world of pain and anxiety just a mess started sodium on a market does your money love his country or not. Yeah but again like the Brazilians today he what he was on the cusp of work of qualification which he then almost singlehandedly in short last Friday here in South Africa Standing match and then miss the next game and I played twice against South Africa in the space of 5 days because he went back to Liverpool with another hamstring problem I think I think you'll see him play today I don't know whether that 2nd hamstring was a serious as it was made out to be and because it was like the writing on the 2nd game him and the physio who traveled with improbable went back prematurely and I'm sure they'll both feature today so Larry again is a little bit also the seat that sometimes. Clubs engender in my opinion and players sometimes go along with. You know the African experience club this country yeah this is a great reason for supporting a football team James in Bristol says 41 years ago is very precise 41 years ago my best friend and he rose as he was 2 years older than me was a Leeds fan and always had this always had a strong when we played to be I wanted to be like him so I've been a Leeds fan for the last 41 years always had this strip I think I'm not strong I think I suppose to be straight who is had this trait where we place a beach I get it I get a good spread if it was struck though I'd prefer that maybe this is for me to not suit very interested to see the last 41 years ago when you play said you show you some point you're going to have a strong 08085963 Budweiser number to join is if you like to talk to either him or Mark or indeed to Simon about football in any context and pick of and gives equal 080-859-0969 extension 3 we can have to give our philosopher friend the Brazilian should name oh he I mean considering the contribution is make instant tonight's program would you like a mark. You know you should hang them up rather liberally he says what no no. I think I've. Got I forgot the. American. Contribution was here he say well hang on a 2nd how many years did I have to be here show you. The new American contributes in that respect I'm sorry so I've not tried to tried being you know the Essex boy and everything tried to get me in like Don't worry I'll take you philosophically. Yeah we'll have more jokes live we've got the bit more to have judged by the way it's original not seduces Is there been any fallout from the Nigerian Nigeria beating Argentina this week has increased expectations in Africa and is it dampened expectations is America what do you go 1st in dumplings with. No Remember Argentina only just qualified and only just and looked a shambles in qualification so at the moment expectations are still not particularly high a few days before that game against Nigeria Argentina bit Russia one nil they are making progress you're beginning to see signs of a team there and not just messy messy didn't play against Nigeria you're beginning to see little attacking triangles and so on but that defense is shambles on the way that Argentina line up by the sample only the coach new coaches had very little time to debate him he wants to play and he's always polite at the base of his team is it is the high price full on plenty opposing half of the team after the field like some back 3 he wants to create 2 against one situations down the flanks and the big question that looms over Argentina's well come up is do they have the players to play that way they were to know up again. Nigeria and could have been 4 nil up and they could have but they got they're going to bed in the 1st half but that defense is an accident waiting to happen because you got a midfielder can't price the bet on price which exposes the defense the defense don't have don't have pace so that they don't want to play high up they'll just drop deeper and deeper and deeper and they don't have wing backs to play that role so he's playing wingers there and he's asking wingers to keep covering 80 meters and to come back and then play like full backs and so it's that when they're up against a team that can come at them with paste on talent as Nigeria did in the 2nd half and that defense really really is a worry so I think that the big question mark for Argentina coming away from that game is the Obama they making progress is this method of defense is this method of is this this very structure of the team with a with a back 3 and so on is this viable with the type of players that Argentina have their head if their disposal and the problem is that if somebody the coach decides that he doesn't have the players to play that way he's got very very little time now and very few goings to embark on a different direction Yeah Mark from an African perspective Marco So should I say the news should we look from an African perspective is there high expectations that Nigeria having put to bed I suppose the ghosts of 9094 the World Cup there when Argentina not them out of the qualifying rounds of the knockout rounds is a high expectations in Africa this could be the one this as an aside I think that was couple years later but. You know there hasn't been as much buzz about this game as I expected I think jurors are still a little bit peeved that they were. Winning their final World Cup qualifier on Friday against. A late penalty at home and that game ended one while because they were rounded off a very very successful qualifying campaign. But obviously that you know. Any victory over a major footballing nation as is greeted with there was light on the continent but it hasn't because of that it was a friendly and because basically didn't play and I think it didn't it didn't resonate as as much as I thought it would and but it should it certainly does again confirm the potential of the Nigerian side and we look forward to see now what they can do and what's interesting on the back of this is a decision now because this coming March is the next that the national wind. And really the last opportunity to get some callers the practice in full for World Cup qualifiers and they'll be presumably to match it everybody will try to get fit into matches we want on the Thursday want to choose their Friday choose Day And interestingly it Africa that international week is now taken up by qualifying matches for the next Nations Cup in. $29.00 teams Nigeria's next opponent in March is the Seychelles which is not exactly that the kind of test that you're looking for ahead of a World Cup trip and so. The Confederation of African football is mislead the Seychelles is that it's in the Seychelles. I can understand why you know in Niger that I may anything for you on a day anyway so I had my time football to have a job. As a letter myself to go along and made to me I mean I sent you a qualified. Because there were cloistered with nothing to do except on the beach and save the world cup anyway. They now decided the 5 African countries it was supposed to compete in these meaningless Nations Cup qualifiers all I would say meaningless but certainly and. Game fairly easy qualifies. Excuse those matches I'll play them later on in the campaign and we'll have March free so. Tasting friendly someone for a change it's good to see let me just say to all but I do remember I said it is the Nigeria that will do anything for a free only day and not me and you know we. Are not. Afterall sorry about my ex and that was actually a Scottish guy that went to Nigeria. Is with us now. You know you don't get morning old Every morning yeah you are talking about you know this to. Be long you know when you talk psychologically but when you're watching football thank you very much about I guess I watched live or so I thought . Kiddo I am when you say and I say what you mean and you really came to read all the other Sunday we stopped at a stop so my wife I would say basically smile and it was a very short match going on just started we just wanted to say you start to feel what. Kind of. Food. She does the bully Anyway thats another story. I mean it was meant in jest and I'm sure the ladies this know some of the Worlds. That by the way but only rest well yeah Ok which is so wandered over to the so called Nations can call lowness and something a large circle much is just a match or a field to tell each team starts immediately you start you saying well I'm going to cause I should install one time travel questions are sick before you know where you are you really. You know you really you really want and you don't know any of the people in the teams it's just very focused anyway 6 feet away from me which is something different being several 100 yards away so if you go watch Quest. It's. A plane shape their part of the law the West Ham Clara. But you know I say never say may not but that's. Really sourced really exciting really got you into a mind to care but it were and it's amazing going because you don't know anybody and I mean it's of no consequence to you whether they win or lose so let's you know our psychological disorder fairly we're talking about. Really really might you care and I didn't wink and it was quite hostile Oh Simon Simon Critchley is a philosopher with talk about that Richard Simon It sounds as if there's a certain determinism if I could use now of. About Richard's desire belonging desire. It's not his freedom of choice you know he's always determine for use the color purple and then before you know Alice Walker's thrown in with the Goldbergs in there Steven Spielberg is in there surgery and surgery is determinism gets its freedom but of a kind of a more complicated kind of we choose to like the color purple we choose to stop for a cup of tea which is to all that stuff but the other is we recognize patterns of play we recognize I know exactly what the color means about watching a village game or watching a pickup game in Brooklyn Bridge Park plot where in India where I live and there's good stuff there good good teams playing you watch a game just walking past and you're caught up in the action you you're in gauging the spectacle of play and you're there with the players on the pitch that can happen you know occur randomly that like that in a repat 4 way I guess that's because of you know. It's not you know it's not determinism the sense in which it's in our genes or something we we've learned to appreciate the game of football and we have our team and our belonging to that same but that could be that could be transferred elsewhere in really interesting ways and also you know it's I think yeah I completely agree with what the caller Well the caller said oh by the way also. Of course we can have a place. 5 a sizable 5 a sides of each every 5 or so I suppose here pitch are still of the fungus sides of each Yeah it was only a separate pitch with just 5 players you know and then you it was it was very commit more contained than the big supposed And we like allowed to have headers. I guess what's a no no no I couldn't you had a starter is love love yeah lots and lots of call rebounds of the world I play that's how I was about 19 it's embarrassing there was a there was actually walls that on far as I was a little wall is a little 5 a side pitch. And I'm astroturf surface and you could put in a box and Cyc Al is very convenient Oh so the player is the attacking players couldn't go in the goalkeepers book said no it was like this for a 5 a side pitch but that seems I mean going back I got picked I got caught shoplifting when I was 13 grown ups is a little 1st since then what it was like any young says this things are not over which I shall of course know but it was a Seems isn't denialism when you say I got caught shoplifting or you were shoplifting I wish I was shoplifting I was shoplifting and it was there it was the president seems not the one I once it was Peru because Peru had this amazing kid you know who is white but the road he has got I say it is really Tim did him win for proof because. I never. Got from a pipe around to buy me something. And I never said you did I never said buy your buckles or shine your buckles improve those 30 frames it in you can buy or make it from his supermarket will no longer exist you see many of those the even get when it came from what was in those days I suppose and that's how the song goes by never said that you are responsible for that go a couple one is daughter in this room during the goon or in Leeds guess why isn't anybody want to guess where is. The show us yelling. So you know masochism I read yeah yeah that's not bad and some of you saying I don't know if this mumbly should you say maybe Ok. Any ideas why don't. I go mad to madness and so I mean I do. Well as an Arsenal fan myself. And for the wrong I've got. I've got every sympathy I mean I think I was even sympathetic but why do you think some bloke he leads as a character is almost as well I mean other than him being the finest team in the world. One quickly we're going to get a lot of you go read the news go to this is and I did I came on telling. Everyone else's that I guess. I did I. Well that's because the finest Even though about Paul from that point from a poll from because I think it's a good one I have a good 7 good good have a wild guess I could I did I know I know that you have a good. Go and have a good stalled Well what we have got the chatter that you're going to show the family madness. The Invincibles I don't I. Yeah yeah that's not bad but I know it's because if he wasn't. His dad would have starved him. So I mean he was so close.