Technical problem most of my system b.b.c. Radio start life in the south. Is p.c. Radio said the b.b.c. Se News special coming up for you all to the news at 7 then join Danny pike as he divisive issues surrounding the strikes would solve them right away I'll see if I have a good evening. 7 o'clock I'm Sara out in the 4 hour wasting time targets for accident and emergency departments should only be for health problems the message from the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt today he says up to 30 percent of people are going to say any unnecessarily The Labor m.p. Ben Bradshaw was not impressed by Mr Hunt's comments seems to be blaming the public overwhelmingly they can't find what he well knows the reason the public go to a day is because they can't get to see that Cipriani and social care is in crisis and we confirm that he has just announced another significant watering down of the for all the talk of Northern Ireland's deputy 1st minister Mohsen McGuinness has resigned it still is a crisis in the power sharing executive which cannot by law function without the participation of Shin fame Mr big it is says he's stepping down in protest at the Stormont government's handling of a flawed renewable energy scheme the 1st minister n.d.p. Leader and Foster has accused him of taking a political not principled stand. Tesco is closing 2 distribution centers at the cost of a $1000.00 jobs but around $500.00 new roles will be created elsewhere as the b.b.c. Business correspondent John Sibley reports Tesco is simplifying its logistics by closing 2 distribution centers at well I'm green in Hartford and Chesterfield in double ship that will cost $1000.00 workers the jobs but Tesco is shifting the work currently done of those 2 centers to other ones it runs in reading and Middlesboro and that will create 500 new jobs Tesco is also bringing more of its distribution in-house and ending its relationship with 2 large companies d.h.l. And Wincanton around 750 people who work for those 2 companies handling Tesco goods will now be employed directly by the supermarket Scientists say they've discovered a chemical which encourages teeth to heal themselves it could make fillings a thing of the past the technique was tested on mice using a tiny biodegradable sponge soaked in the drug and placed inside a cavity the team from King's College had the procedure will be available to patients within 5 years Paul shop is one of the research as it completely maintains the normal structure of the tooth and because there's really nothing foreign that's being placed in the tooth there's far less chance of any any failure of the repair ask with current approaches a man has been rescued off to crawling for more than 2 hours along the beach with a broken leg Tim Robinson slipped on some rocks while out walking the line Regis in Dorset on Saturday he's gone out without a mobile phone he was eventually found by his wife who became worried when he didn't return home the weather the southeast will become try later this evening western and northern areas will continue to have showers b.b.c. News 3 minutes past 7 in the B.B.C.'s southeast royalty place with Danny. Good evening and welcome to a special program going live across b.b.c. Sussex sorry. B.b.c. Radio Kent b.b.c. Radio silence on the big story of 2016 and now 2017 the Southern Rail crisis. It's Particulares who just how can I feel like I'm being being shafted. I'm Johnny fight thank you joining me tonight coming up we're now just 5 hours away from a total standstill once again on the southern rail network as our safe drivers walk off the job they say is about safety replacing fully trained conductors with on board supervisors and train drivers operating the doors if you safety This isn't about money it's safe for the safety issues completely safely I have to reiterate this isn't about money this asked believing that you do need with the men to train on the body of people a 2nd person to the safety of everybody of the wrong but Southern Rail and the government say it's about modernizing the railways and I think the unions action is grossly disproportionate and they are causing immeasurable damage not only to passengers but also to the regional economy as well and it is a an appalling situation here's how you get in touch with a program today it's I'd like to hear your views about this and if anybody's got a solution to this I really want to hear that so get in touch on Twitter use the hash tag Southern strike look for your Facebook page or our local live pages on places like b.b.c. Daugherty Kate slash Sussex you can text 81 triple 3 Start your message with radio or you can call me would love to talk 234595757 b.b.c. Se royal debate revealing the answer to your question with me hi. Good evening thanks for joining us so the plan for the next couple of hours in this 1st half hour we'll look back at how the year long dispute began and slowly crippled the region then between 730 and eights will bring you the special b.b.c. Debates on the rail crisis in its entirety as it goes out on b.b.c. One recorded Yes. A in East Grinstead there were 120 commuters in the audience and it features Charles Houghton the boss of southern and Mick Lynch from the r. Into union and included many feisty exchanges old Hall do not guarantee a 2nd person ever show you look as though you had rituals to work on tell the public you're going to guarantee a safety critical person then so what we've counted is that we will roster a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as how can. As many say I have a 2nd and from 8 till 9 it's over to you your reaction to what's said in the program your stories of how the delays and disruption has affected you and your family and what the solutions to the problems may be how many more people's lives have to be affected how many more have to leave their job lose their job I would just like to pass the 2 gentlemen Mick and Charles how do you sleep at night knowing full well that the impact of this strike is having on individuals on their lives and then today to start the week the strike on the tube service in London I would like to know how the commuter in your life is getting on today are they home yet what are they doing later this week and how the strikes and other delays are non-strike days affected your family do get in touch you can call me now 345957 double 057 appreciate a different number if you're listening in can't Hampshire or the other why it's the one you're used to so let me tell you again this down and then give me a call 034595757 you can text me I want triple 3 Start your message with the word radio or on Twitter hash tag is Southern strike it's not just hundreds or thousands of commuters to London it's children who use the trains to get to school patients travelling to hospital for treatment tourists and business people so from the train company that gave us the 729 Brighton to London which didn't arrive at Toria any time any day in 2014 we have 23 day strikes coming up starting 1st thing tomorrow but how. How did we get here Porter Jack Finn has been looking at the year long dispute. 100 thousands of people use Southern Rail network every day and the problems that people have been experiencing Well they've been going on for some time. The services being provided by Southern trains with go to hundreds of thousands of commuters in my constituency in London and the southeast has been and are fully joke that's Labor's Chuck Aminah speaking in the Commons at the end of 2015 at the time there were already delays and disruptions due to signal failures and infrastructure issues including the major building work at London Bridge it was in 2016 that the growing tensions with the unions took a turn for the worse it saps its space Bill and I think the pm doesn't get involved because people are lazy and it's just completely disrupting everything I'm pretty sympathetic to the people who are on strike I think I think they have a right to strike again re my journey to now let's find another way to take. Over the last year there have been 30 days of strikes on the network with more to come disruptions of also being caused by the high levels of staff sickness the raw itself centers over the role of guards on trains some of them wants to bring in something called driver only operated trains or Dayo that's where the driver instead of the conductor opens and closes the doors when he serves in Britain already worked that way the whole London tube network for example. And the rail safety regulator says it's safe but the unions don't agree and so the guard has a much better view of the doors and can stop people getting trapped and say they're concerned about what happens in an emergency and the discussions between the union and the company have become very fraught make cash from the are empty in trials unconcern not interested in what's said at fringe political me into or serious into . Trade union and we're not part of some conspiracy to bring the government there and we're focusing on the concerns are members of add around safety on the on the roadways southern says it will keep 2 people on the train service they just won't have the same safety critical role the unions are convinced the changes are part of a wider plan to save money by cutting jobs but Southern says no $1.00 will lose their job or take a pay cut and that 2nd person will now be free to help passengers and dollars from Goby a template well way which runs the southern franchise we have made compromises and we have changed all plans and what we're coming out against basically are empty and . Rejection of any of that we've made there is of course another player in all of this and that's the government almost franchises a company has picked up on the line and collects the money from fares also loses money if there are strikes or disruption but the deal in Southern is different the costs involved with modernizing the network such as the London Bridge project and the enormous disruption that happens as a result makes it difficult for commercial firm to make a profit so in this situation d.t.r. Operates services but the government keeps the revenue and pays out for any problems like all the cost of the strikes in disruption so far they've ruled out stripping go view of the franchise despite pressure from M.P.'s including conservatives they've also said they won't intervene directly in the dispute but have reserved their faces criticism for the unions Chris Grayling is the transport secretary this is a strike they say is about safety but the independent safety regulator says there isn't a safety issue that should be putting people on strike we can sort out lots of problems on this railway if the unions would call off their works rule call off a strike date is get back to working normally and let's try and sort out the problems on this railway. In the end of course all long suffering passengers want to know is when this is are going to come to an end this week I spoke to the hours left General Secretary Mick. And he told me they would universes away from a deal with the Thameslink the answer is probably no time soon. Universes away never sounds good does it your reaction and the impact of the strike have had on you to give me a call tonight 134595757 let's deal with the here now though at 11 it's past 7 on b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio Kent b.b.c. Radio so don't here's the latest travel. Travel. Across the south. Good evening 13 minutes past 7 on this Monday night so mon ago we were hearing the backgrounds to this dispute long running dispute that's how we got here but what about the cost passengers have told us time and again on the radio station about the impact the dispute is having on their lives and they use the debate that you're here in about 15 minutes to. Some of those frustrations with an 8 year old son a 3 full 4 and a half hour journey is an acceptable state by July I had quit my job and I'd taken a job is the to high I'm using myself 7000 pounds a year and therefore putting my family finances at risk as wow I did that so I could see my son because he could not get me home on time to teach that I used to commute to London until the 16th of December when I became too ill to do so which I believe is because of the strike I no longer have a job to go to I was commuting from Hastings it would take about an hour a half each way but because of the strike action and the disruption and also network instability that journey time extended to 2 and a half hours 5 hours you become an absolutely impossible in fact led to the break up of our relationship as a daily commute from her youth to London I'm forced to stand on parks trains and serves as a counselor due to industrial action. Man City on the floor he couldn't physically get priority 6 just a few feet away because the train is so Pat I would just like to ask the 2 gentlemen Mick and Charles how you sleep at night knowing full well that the impact of this strike is having on individuals on their lives the full b.b.c. Rail crisis debate coming up at 730 tonight Stay with us for that in the meantime tell me your story 34595757 Tell me how the strikes and the destruction non-strike days have affected you and your family 345957571 Twitter hash tag Southern strike join me in the studio now is our Sussex political reporter Ben vice and we've heard horror story after horror story in the last 6 months or year haven't we been we really have and as you say it's not just on strike days I mean the strikes have been rolling since April the destruction a little longer than that when we heard from Littlehampton in that montage is that she attend. The debate recorded yesterday she has had to leave her job in London take a 7 grand a year pay cut because the commute was just too hellish for her we've heard tales of porridge salespeople in Brighton station for quote they've had to close their business because of a lack of foot fall on specifically on strike days actually that one we've heard people dealing with all kinds of stresses strains people who sometimes don't even see their kids awake during the week because they can't guarantee getting home on time and one of the things that strikes me is the lack of certainty on when you're going to arrive home will it be anywhere near the show Jules time of your train arriving your destination or will it be an hour or 2 hour So imagine that it must be very stressful of people that not knowing when you going to turn up and is that taking a toll on people's mental health Absolutely and that uncertainty and we hear it time and time again some people actually prefer travelling on a strike date because at least you can plan ahead now looked at this Actually I looked into the toll that travelling in a disrupted Rail service has on people's mental health doctors across the south have told me that yes it does have an impact I made it the vast majority of the way hey kick not just North of rental station and the driver on my train announced that we would no longer be stopping at Redtail and we would be going fast to Gatwick and on that train journey down to Gatwick burst into tears and that for me was the breaking point why I thought this isn't Ok with me anymore I actually went to my g.p. . That. I was experiencing there isn't yet hard data available that would show where the G.P.'s was seeing patients with rail related anxiety but doctors in Sussex say they've seen patients whose mental health problems have been exacerbated by disruption on the rail network Dr Nick Grey is a consultant psychologist at the Sussex partnership mental health trust it's no surprise when we're seeing people who are reporting freely somewhere hopeless sort . Of low remove I think of the biggest waste destructive commuting home. Potentially lowering the mood and impact it has on worry or anxiety someone who knows all too well is Matthew Steele from Horsham in West Sussex he knows exactly how many hours he wasted commuting to and from London because he kept a spreadsheet in the big turning point was when I hit 24 hours of my life had been taken up by delay trying to take 3 months I suppose you know I would find of us of going quite short with the children or they were upset with me studies by the Office for National Statistics show that real past years are more likely to report feeling anxious and more is the campaigns manager at the Royal Society for public health he says disruption on the railway is one of the biggest culprits we actually did a new survey of a large body of Jimmy's where we often specifically what elements of their community they perceived as being most harmful to their house the number one was journey joys this lack of predictability not being able to sort of plan for us the very evening and knowing that they're going to be able to spend time with people is not being able to structure their day Matthew Steele has made changes to his life already he gave up the job closer to home in cruelty and now cycles to work the best thing about being on the bike is I mean complete control of it and I find that I have that much more energy my 2nd son couldn't ride a bike not long after I started commuting to Crawley came home one summer's evening we went and he learned to ride a bike and I was there. And I seen that would rarely have been possible 6 months ago. This is my wife pointed. Really is amazing he's obviously physically. He's just happy. When he gets home from work he just seems lighter of the more than 1500 commuters that answered b.b.c. Sussex and series questions about their journeys over 2 thirds said they'd be making changes to their lives in 2017 new jobs new homes it's clear that some just want to get away from it all but many left on the southern network want someone to step in the problems don't just cost time and money they're potentially damaging commuters health as well so there's a look at the mental health impact of the destruction on the railways will look at the financial impacts in just a couple of seconds Ben vise reporting there and he's keeping a check on social media tonight if you're to join us on Twitter hash tag Southern strike with your view of what's been happening lately Danny if you if you are already getting in touch Samuel q. Says on Twitter using the hashtag 7 strike the cheap strike was bad but still nothing on certain they've been at it for about a year Meanwhile somebody calling themselves passengers Salit says chilled beer check popcorn check comfy seats check space to wave the arm in the air frantically and shout at the challenge tally check hash tag rail debate to think they're ready Ok and that is coming up in 9 minutes time our b.b.c. Rail crisis debate I recorded yesterday in the Square instead you'll be you'll be instituted the panel and also there's an audience of $120.00 people gathered at the check in me theater and the screen said for this recording last night we play at the same time as the t.v. Put on some b.b.c. One at 7 30 am a tween 8 and 9 it's over to you really sure for your say tell us about the impact the strikes had on you any solutions you can come up with let's be positive about 80345957 double 057 what would work best do you think so it's not just the passengers who suffer when the trains don't run a study back in December put the loss in terms of g.d.p. Of the strikes at around 300000000 pounds that's 11000000 pounds a day the University of Chichester base its calculation on the thousands of passengers passengers who are late missed work or had to work. Home on strike days here's our business correspondent. Apologize for the overcrowding on this time. Mass is you. Know it's a measure of the economy is an economics professor we went through very Office for National Statistics on Joost. Cheating paying per employee that works out around about $61500.00 pounds per annum we used to an average working year of $230.00 days a month comes out as a figure lost of time to consumption pounds a day at the highest level the total impact. Is probably no one and a half 1000000 a conservative level perhaps as high as 11000000000 if we look at a broader level of impact. Deify warehouse managing director of coffins is losing as much as 20 working hours a week suicides among just manufacturers and distributors are facing souls be afraid to really is about the ability of people to move products from our sponsor vehicles or out to customers or what we've called them is a stall for over 3 about like 3. He's reduced so we're trying to do the siren of work with less people which. There were now we'll see is the economic impact where investment is discouraged and ultimately goes to other parts of the country when it's highlighting is that there's very little resilience in the infrastructure so for example within the realms going out that knocks out connection puts pressure on so the road network of the road network is failing as well and so about saying to people there's not enough resilience we should be investing in this area and those trying to fill things instead of being away. From them come from. We're not saying Come here come down through with 600 business. We're in trouble doing business we're in trouble getting around having trouble just getting to and from work it's not so in some respects. They say is the best medicine getting increasingly. Into lost productivity suggests it's cost the economy around $300000000.00 pounds it's likely to be much higher and doesn't account for the loss of sales all the impact on finances of people across the south. 725 now on b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio Ken some b.b.c. Radio silent This is Danny pike we do our royal crisis debate special I'm with you through. Till 9 o'clock tonight in 5 minutes we'll link up with b.b.c. One and listen in full to the b.b.c. Southeast Southern Rail debate and prepare for exchanges like this not guarantee a 2nd person ever to. Tell the public you're going to guarantee a safety critical person then so what we've got n.t. Is that we will roster a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as hard. As Then he says so you have a 2nd there are though a few voices missing from tonight's debate Firstly the transport secretary and Epsom m.p. Chris Grayling he told the b.b.c. This on Friday morning this is a strike they say is about safety but the independent safety regulator says there isn't a safety issue that should be putting people on strike we can sort of lots of problems on this railway if the unions would call off their works rule call off a strike days get back to working normally and let's try and sort out the problems on this railway and the rail minister wasn't there either but Paul Mayne ods did come on my program on Friday and told me this is the foundation stone of the safety on our always is the independent regulator the office for road and rail we have one of the safest railways in Europe and that is because of the office for road knows ability to hold train operating companies to account to work with unions to work for the Department of Transport they are the new arbiter of safety on our nation draw away if you will meet our panel and our audience a few minutes on our debates but also absent Yes they as left the union that represents the train drivers that begin their strike at midnight tonight Jack feen spoke to Mick Whelan from as left last week or so for most issues that we want but some of the myths we have of people strike. People keep trying as if we were people betraying for motives then we have safety This isn't about money this is not passed trying to get some sort of ritual seeking some sort money I believe the company being willing to talk about doing this on the. It's Own we haven't done so this is because we truly believe all my members truly believe the extension of Theo with the volume of football we now have in the industries and Saif usual time money is has left paying its members to go on strike not so they're losing money by doing this yes so how long can they go on doing this financially can they can they can do stuff do this in the long term. We will look at that it will be guarded by our members and our branches but what we do we really have to vary the tactics of various tribes to take account of people's needs or whatever else but we're hoping that we won't be doing this in a lot of mediums and we truly do want to solution we truly do want people get around the table and talk to us realistically not just tell us we've done it so you have to have it and you must just take it how close are you to a deal at the moment we are nowhere near the forward to you at the moment unfortunately mostly it's either because we have a long tradition of trying to find a way through things you said you were a universe apart a beautiful or several galaxies and different worlds b.b.c. Se real debate revealing me on this is your question I mean. So our debate coming up in just a couple of seconds Ben vice was there in East Grinstead last night when this was recorded what was the atmosphere like in the room I think was pretty tense pretty testy pretty shouty at times I think 120 members of the public each with their own experience of self and rail all came with far more to say than they got the chance to but he definitely did get a chance to get a few good ones as well find out in the next half hour did we come away with any solid answers would you think they would be pleased with what they heard during the course of the need to feel like they might be getting somewhere I don't think people are going to listen to this and he a magic wand solution what I think they will hear is the tension of 2 people who've been at each of the throats kind of at a distance forced on to the same podium as we know they went on from this debate to go into talks Ok let's hear the b.b.c. Rail crisis. Debate which is also being shown on b.b.c. One call me afterwards with your reaction 034-5957 double 057 his joke O'Byrne Hello exasperated commuters unhealthily Pak trains and companies forced out of business Britain's worst rail strike in 20 years has meant misery to hundreds and thousands of people and tonight we're hosting a debate on the crisis in Southern Rail I'm Joe Coburn and we're in East Grinstead a large commuter town where many have suffered severe travel problems we have been invited audience who will get the chance to question and put their views to those at the heart of this increasingly bitter industrial dispute. If you'd like to join in the debate at home you can by tweeting using the hash tag sell them strike also the b.b.c. Website is running a life page which will round up all of your comments so let me start by introducing our panel Mick Lynch is the assistant general secretary of the r m t Mr Lynch has said he's sorry that people have had to put up with strike action but it's for the company to get round the table and we can hammer. Out a deal well the man who says he is more than happy to hammer out a deal with the unions is stood right next to Mick Lynch and is Charles Laughton the chief executive of Southern he's led face to face negotiations with the unions and is tasked with bringing the dispute to an end that won't be easy Hugh Merriman m.p. Is an influential member of the transport select committee and wants a law banning strikes on safety grounds after an industry watchdog rejected the union's claims the conservative m.p. For battle still says the strikes have been horrendous for his constituents and we also have Caroline pigeon chair of the London Assembly's transport committee the former Liberal Democrat male candidate believes that thought than should be stripped of its franchise and Transport for London run suburban train lines let's welcome them. Now without further delay to coin a phrase Our 1st question is from Dominic Morgan a health care consultant from Hove who commutes to Hammersmith Dominic. Visit to the commuters from Who've to London and force a stand on parts trains and serves as a councillor due to industrial action there that are sort of the 4 year old man city on the floor physically get priority 6 just a few feet away because the train is so packed. Do you knowledge that your industrial action new schools in your own presidency disruption to the laws of all the working people like yourselves and is also causing for more safety incidents river happened you should draw for if you do how do you justify this Dominick thank you very much now this question goes to the very heart of this dispute Southern wants to bring in something called driver only operated trains d where the driver rather than the conductor opens and closes the door. Now it's an argument that has been destroying people's lives for the past 8 months because the company the Union and the government can't agree where the drive that only operated trains are safe now you know the rail regulator has said that it is safe so why are you striking. The gentleman's question I'm sure you are aware of the president disruption and I don't want that to happen or I want a settlement to this dispute based on a common sense approach from both parties and we think that it's available right now this afternoon if Charles was to go outside and draw something up with me that is available immediately what's stopping the settlement is the attitude of the company towards change in the way that the trains are operated and they're backed up by the d.f.t. And Chris Grayling and now refusing to come to a compromise the only issue of what the the regulator says the regulators says in his opinion the. 7 of draw in is legal and safe they could also say and they do say on the record that the other form of operation to person operation were conducted God is safe so there are 2 modes of operation trains are available to this company to run earlier last year they chose to implement and then impose a change to driver only operation we believe is unsafe not about opening and closing doors that's one element of a conductor's role excepted that the rail regulator has said that driver only operates he trains are say you accepted it they said this a front they haven't said they are safe or are you going to remove that 2nd person from Southern trains we're not that I'll come and so you were what I thought if I can if I can start by saying I am deeply sorry for the inconvenience being caused to customers now and I think the unions action is grossly disproportionate and I also think that they are causing a measurable damage not only to. To passengers but also to the regional economy as well and it is a appalling situation what you mean by Google coming back to the coming back to a question you've asked me no we are not removing a 2nd person from the train in a show or you will be already there can make him say his piece and will come back to you there will be a 2nd safety trained person not so on critical or no more train guaranteed on every trial let him speak goodness only guarantee delivery trying to speak there will be a 2nd safety trained person on more trains than there were at the start of this dispute do you take any responsibility for this crisis that this dispute cannot all be the union's fault we are doing our level best to get this dispute sorted and right throughout this whole process we have put a number of compromises on the tables are they to try and get what also is a compromise it was an 8 point plan to the world empty which it was intended to sell dispute it gave guarantees around jobs guarantees around pay it gave guarantees for the future about how we would work but I'm afraid they were unwilling to compromise I mean I don't know if you have a 2nd I may search will wait a minute because the compromise that has been put to you is that the 2nd person will be Gary no nor in the 2nd person according to Charles Horton unless you think he's lying is the 2nd person will be guaranteed on the trains will come to the safety critical point in just one moment do you accept that your old Hold do not guarantee a 2nd person to be sure you look as though you had rituals which are what I don't tell the public you're going to guarantee a safety critical person that then look into the cover and say So what we've got and he does that we will roster a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as have them to do. As many shows so you know the 2nd you leave me to do this here is finish go on as a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as we had before this started in fact we've recruited 100 addition. People to make sure that we do that. And on top of that what we will make sure is that those 2nd safety trained people are better able to look after customers because freed up for operational tasks they are much better able to get through trains and look after customers which is what customers Friday they want before I go back to the panel and certainly to Hugh Merriman and Caroline pigeon Let's just hear a few more personal stories from the audience if we can go to Emma green from Littlehampton who has quit her job due to the strike Emma can you give us your story please I'm a single mom with an 8 year old son and Jane when I started here literally from the fast day I've experienced horrendous delays getting high on average 2 and a half hours after I'd last left the office as well and then as bad as 4 and a half hours sorry By July I had quit my job and I'd taken a job close to to hi I'm using myself 7000 pounds a year but I did that so I could see my son because you could not get me home on time to do right so my question to the panel is how many more people's lives have to be affected how many more have to leave their jobs lose their jobs and have their family life significantly to disappear so if your services and I are just add these are not purely down to strikes they were bad before the strike. You can hear the strength the feelings from the can you justify further strikes when we hear from women like them agreeing who have quit their jobs who have lost thousands of pounds in order to protect jobs within your union they're not protecting jobs all of our members have got jobs right members of declawing trolls is. Offer to give them 2000 pounds or go away we all can you justify and safety regulation of the service right that we already know we've already said the rail regulator has said not just once but twice there's been a 2nd report out from the rail regulator saying that driver only operated trains are safe right now also faces but let's say Yes but you are asking for something that goes beyond No were not given to the rail regulator Caroline Bijan is nodding her head isn't that the case and it is a video of rights that person does have got to be far more important than this key political point scoring that we've heard this evening and I feel safer straight as a cellphone passenger myself I know the pain I mean you're going through a worrying where you're going to get there to pick up your child on time worrying if you're going to make the nativity play because the driver doesn't show up for the train so I'm there living this with you every day and thousands of thousands of passengers and it's really affecting people modest incomes because if you're high around you may well be able to work flexibly from home but actually it's those people you've got to go in to do the shift at the hospital to do the shift in the shop they're the ones who are so affected by this and the powerless with this dispute going on now there were issues before let's let's not beat about the bush and we'll come to the c.e.o. We're very poor in terms of driver recruitment and I phrase this many times with Charles and I know that they are recruiting more but the unions have got to get a grip on this and get round the table and come up with a deal because we're all suffering including your members will be suffering with their Pay Pal we have a new heart. Let's hear from Ray Chapman because he's selling his house in Hastings and is now renting in Gatwick rate tell us what's happened to you so I've worked a business now for about 6 years I was to reach him from Hastings it would take about an hour a half each way but because of the strike action and the disruption of network instability journey time extended to 2 and a half hours 5 hours you become an absolutely impossible in fact led to the breakup of the relationship so what's happened is a rental property may go to 10 minutes will be. Yes And you know mine destry we have double decker planes that carry 500 passengers that takeoff fly thousands of miles and really is the railway industry to get their head around who opens and closes it all My God you know we're in a really bad place so. Let's just get a couple of audience reactions other than the questions yes the gentleman there say your name and where you live. In Brighton and Hove I would just like. How you sleep at night knowing full well that the impact of this strike is having on individuals on their lives. To commute to London until the 16th of December when I became too ill to do so which I believe is because of the strike I no longer have a job to go to write well you're not the 1st person in this audience to say that let's talk to Hugh Merritt a little bit about the role of the government or the lack of intervention by the government as some people would put it because they also could have done something to put more pressure on Charles Horton and Southern Rail The lady here has talked about a lack of recruitment we know the record is pretty dreadful the south and over the last few years we asked Chris Grayling the transport secretary and the rail minister Paul may not to take part tonight but they declined should they have been here should they have been here you merriment to answer the questions and the very tragic actually in some cases stories of people here in the audience but I think one of the difficulties is that if you also have the government here then you'll end up with people having quite a bit of a bonfire on it so I stand here before you as a member of the Charles Hall select committee to bring a little bit of balance and sort of some technical ideas into this particular debate so of course I can't speak for that but when it comes down to it we're told this issue is about safety it's not about politics the. Well there has to be a technical solution for this political intervention it's certainly the case that the government ministers are highly focused they work very closely with Southern straw and come up with some of these proposals so this guarantee on jobs and indeed guarantee on pay and indeed pay Royce's is one such idea how we've been let down by the government over this issue shouldn't they have intervened earlier but you can talk about intervention but it's not it's not the government that's refusing to drive trains which the independent safety regulator has decreed is safe but they could they could have put pressure on this article without a track record this isn't like one of the speech you look back in the eighty's where you had a similar dispute in terms of time the miners dispute where you were looking at jobs being lost at industry in decline this is an industry where passenger numbers of doubled where pay and indeed jobs have been guaranteed for the ink this franchise this is nothing like it so it's hard for the government to come up with more people question may be whether the polls in the house to give the government more powers in legislation to bring this matter to an end will come to Caroline ph in on PAP's one of the changes that could happen which is bringing some of the suburban rail lines under Transport for London but actually people here may disagree with you and say actually politically this ease becoming something of a hot potato Let's hear from Julie Greenhill She's a senior account manager from South Norwood in south London and travels into the city every day Julie. I feel that we're being held hostage by this type political situation on the railway we constantly it's late this strikes over crowding we can't get on the trains none of these involved the arms he has left the government . And sort of appear to want to solve this why not right well why not he merriment that is the question why hasn't there been stronger resolve in terms of bringing these 2 gentlemen to some sort of agreement. There is political resolve I can tell you as an m.p. And terms of my inbox and my popularity this strike absolutely makes incredibly depressing to work in this particular. Case if we don't solve. The under no illusions that this is causing pain let's hear from Tim Lawton who has spoken about the company is a shambles do you believe that they can resolve this dispute or they should be stripped of their franchise I have no problem being stripped of the franchise but the franchise was defective in the 1st place frankly becomes out of the strike. The franchise is too big to handle it's almost a quarter of the train traveling public in this in this country I don't whether any of the other train operating companies could handle it in its current form it needs to be broken up with a g.d.r. Remain in control of part of that I don't know but the thing that is completely undermining any trade operation countries running the moment is a completely unreasonable strike action it is crazy when we have Thameslink trains running between London and Brighton who our driver door only operated trains and have been for some time without any safety considerations calling at the same stations on the same lines and they are empty and I surf and I also wouldn't be safe for some trains to do the same it's a complete and utter nonsense what it comes down to say. Who is in the audience I believe who is an asset train driver and I want to know if he thinks that the strike should continue and there justifiable on safety grounds. In this settlement Why didn't you source who has left 9 months ago into the drug bust through the courts to try and stop the property so. That we realised that the experiment of privatisation has filed so. Thank. You. All seems to be the. Way states in other countries are only so easy do you see this is part of an attempt to renationalise the railways is this how you see the major down Ok right would you want to answer that question that you are going to say to you where are you saying it to you I can only get worse than I know what I merely doing the poor and he's right in that you. Know it's. Got us into these contracts 1st or I said it's also American also fortune I think is this the end should this be the end of a failed privatization bid in terms of running franchises on the railways I don't believe that the government is better placed the wrong industry than the private companies that we have right now. Let him on to Mars let me explain why when Lewis was wrong by British royal there were 2000000000 pound losses and if you're telling me the trains were getting there on time before I'm sorry it's not the case that it took them terribly because we'd like to ask people at home and remind them to join the debates there's the hash tag on the screen Southern strike and also if you go to our b.b.c. Website there's a live page running with the round up of all your comments thank you very much for your comment so far let's talk about the impact specifically on business I know it's been touched on and on the wider economy in the costs that have been incurred by businesses and Mattie's lives in Sussex and if we can go to you now tell us what happened to you. I run a successful business with my partner Julie on. Right and train station but the continued rail disruption has meant that we've had to close the business and we've actually lost our livelihoods because of this. And if you really appreciate what the impact has been on such small independent businesses as. I do for a dependent business has gone bust myself and work in the past as a result of people's actions like the unions know as a result of employee mismanagement. That's common look we don't want the strike this strike is completely unnecessary in the sense that they did not need to bring this forward the government is instructing Charles all a daily basis we're very exceptional not to stop a settlement they did not need to bring this plan forward you know April 26th and there would be no need for any of these disputes he claims he's going to put somebody on board well why can't the person on board be a safety critical trained God and then the argument would be over he could get all the things he wants out of this customer service focus and it wouldn't cost him a penny more as he admits you know you if it's almost all logically know you are going through forms are you going to any changes are not enjoying anything that would satellite or by chance or an answer the question that was put by May clinch so I repeat we have a safety trained member of staff on more trains than we had ours and if you believe you well I don't know who you are because it is out of given a go she says I'm not doing it because it is absolutely true those people are able to deal with emergencies they're able to deal with evacuation although you know the track things people can they can deal with the tragedy can deal with emergencies on trains but they're also better able to look after he was allegedly revenue. As we mean people will are asking why is it that it works successfully on other trains and other rail lines that you can have c.c.t.v. Images with the driver and that they can see what is going on along we could trace e.t.v. Why. Face to face we could have a new dispatch agreement we can have a different method of working what we call in to have is the removal of a person who looks after the public who looks off the women travel who looks awfully vulnerable he would not look at the will of God and see that there was no I didn't like. What's the matter. Ok what do you say well I don't know where they. Think you're not going to be able to get out of the. I don't know thing to be able to guarantee the safety of passengers if having conduct as God's on the trains it will not be a guarantee because I won't be there we've already shows that you know. You put. Your gentleman here in the 2nd. Yes. You know I'm from explore. The next train up 6 years ago to refer a good company. It's a different use. You can run a train service to go however defined sort of happens for me over a period of years the traveling public of this. Strange story of had stampings which couldn't be invested. In convenience but what do you say then about the 30 percent of trains in. The chute don't have a safety trying to go out and I think. Thank you thank you. Because . You say you put a stall. In exceptional. Queues pointed peps the union and soft and you saw. What you say about being able to state categorically. The exceptional service the offer we made to be are empty but they were willing to talk about it right so we usually use used his rights and or sorry to critical though no brain safety critical stuff they got the same status on the train as a passenger because they cannot intervene with the protection of the railways are not allowed to go on the track so I don't know that he simply simply untrue are you listening to each other when you speak are you listening. To this was going to greet you also usually fairly Don't you agree all day of the your doing I do not an entrenched position I'm not moving this is both of us we can't go any further on the dilution of safety regulation a little while we're not prepared to be party to dilute in safety standards of the railway I think we have got to see a resolution to this strike but you've only got to hear both sides to see thing we're not going to be getting anywhere and what I would like to see is actually in structured magically arbitration for strikes likely to cause widespread public disruption because then you could have negotiations bring both sides together in the end you could have an independent person who would arbitrate and that would be the agreement and then we wouldn't have to suffer months and months of pain the closure of your business it's heartbreaking absolutely heartbreaking and we've got to get a resolution and I'm not hearing tonight any sign that we're going to let's hear from the mayor of Seaford Lindsay Freeman what I want to know is where will we be able to get the train service back that's the one thing most people in Seaford want when will that be well it depends on getting this dispute resolved. It just depends it depends on how long well let's let it hang on summer let's let So can you give us a date at least a ballpark time well it depends on this additional action is pointless and unnecessary industrial action being brought to an end I think Mick Lynch has heard enough evidence to see evening that people want it brought to an end. I want it brought to bring it to and everybody should agree with you he will see very nice I'm so sorry right how you let a child yet you haven't heard plenty of advice to see things that people want this brought to an end and you can just walk so I didn't know you could. Do it you you can bring this to an end make you can start the strike Charles also trying to give us that guarantee you guarantee a 2nd person each train we jointly defined their safety critical competencies and you guarantee they're going to be there we can go out the back no right to do Ok You know those paid already with. The you can hear how much they want this to happen and they waited really are 2nd right you need a clean and Charles Laughton to heal them or if you now have the opportunities make clinches just said there is a room just to the side of the stage where you could crush this out so would you do it would we hear it now how would you marry a man you're really in that Could we are I'm pitching could join you and adjudicate what I shall take with. Me if you if I try will that will be helpful Well human could it work seriously because it's incredibly frustrating for you and for me because you hear a lot of differences but then you think I'd see that all that far Paul and yet the reality is when you take people separately it doesn't go anywhere so I absolutely agree that it would be fantastic if the 2 parties could sit out but would also just put things behind them and just be reasonable with the approach which means that if it is safe to have this practice then except if there is more that can be done to get the unions where they need to be able to make stations extra safe let's accept it it's possible right it's possible lady there in the center are you any more confident than you were at the start of this debate of a resolution now you are not and the reason why I'm not is because I have 0 Report in my hand here and actually I. The regulator says the regulators report identifies a number of activities that have got to take place in order for the. 3000. Or so my question would be to Charles when can you get those actions in place and if you do get them in place then make you prepared to accept the d. . In the meantime Can we go back to having this until such time as any safety recommendations have been implemented and you come to a mutual agreement because we need the train service back and we need it back now. Well maybe you'd like to go with them into the house to pass point I'm afraid we've run out of time I know everybody wanted to contribute and thank you very much I'd like to thank the panel of course but I'd like to especially thank you the audience for all your contributions if you'd like to continue the debate then tune into your local b.b.c. Radio station in Sussex Sorry Kent and Hampshire where Danny Pike is hosting a special program you can also have your say on Twitter using the hash tag Southern strike and on our Facebook page it just leads me to say thank you very much again and goodbye. B.b.c. Se real debates with Danny I. Was passionate also notes on all sides 30 minutes of the main players in the southern Christ meeting on television for the 1st time face to face are you listening to each other when you speak are you listening. To this little piece or so you don't you agree that your ear is doing I got an entrenched position now. And I'm not moving this is believed to be a week we can't go any further on the dilution of safety regulations we also heard some of the people whose daily lives are being affected by the crisis how many more people's lives have to be affected how many more have to leave their job to lose their jobs I would just like to ask the teacher and Charles how you sleep at night knowing full well that the impact that this strike is having on individuals on their lives and also the news sweet had in the program over to you get in touch on Twitter hash tag Southern strike or call me out 34595757 Ben Feiss been look at the social media during that what are people saying well they are already flying off flying off the hook metaphorically speaking call in Modoc says the union shouldn't be allowed to hold passengers to ransom James Charles Horton didn't across didn't come across to you while we're showing Kelly said no wonder the things being so it's like kids. Very very came to listen to Miss Call the Midwife it was so exciting she said that's how good it was right I'll get you out 34595757 give me a call. The b.b.c. Se will be by beating me and says Take your question with me by. Saying. I'm Sara Loughton. Measures are being considered to deal with what's being described as unprecedented pressure on the n.h.s. This winter the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Commons there were serious problems that some trusts with the service facing its busiest day in its history the cheese day off to Christmas but he rejected claims from the British Red Cross that it was facing a humanitarian crisis we've got to be very careful about the language we use in these situations because I think many vulnerable people can be frightened if you get the tone wrong and the vast majority of n.h.s. . This is performing stream me well under a great deal of pressure the mental health charity sane says the government will have to set aside more funding for mental health care if proposals by Theresa May to improve treatments in England are to be fulfilled same's chief executive Marjorie Wallace says she welcomes Miss May's remarks but without ringfence money the stigma she was seeking to eliminate will remain the supermarket chain Tesco says a $1000.00 people will be made redundant as part of changes to its distribution network is reducing the number of census but expects to create 500 new jobs at the same time. Mustn't McGinest has resigned as Northern Ireland's deputy 1st minister in protest against the handling of a botched energy scheme it's the latest twist in the controversy which is estimated to have cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds Shin Fein wanted olling foster the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party to stand aside temporarily as 1st minister while her handling of the scheme was investigated but she refused the resignation is likely to lead to early elections at Stormont. Now politics also played a pass in last night's Golden Globes the Hollywood actress Meryl Streep said she'd been stunned by the president elect Donald Trump imitating a disabled reporter disrespect invites disrespect violence incites violence. When the powerful use their position to bully others we all lose. Well Donald Trump's response he called Miss Street one of the most overrated actresses in Hollywood and said he had not smoked a disabled reports. Sterling has fallen to its lowest level for more than 2 months the pounds dropped by one percent against both the euro and the u.s. Dollar but the $100.00 share index closed as an all time high up 28 points at $7238.00 Christiane over now Dave has been named features world player for 2016 the 4th time the Portugal and Graeme adroit star has won the top awards County around the area won the coach of the Year award after leading rank outsiders less the city to the Premier League title the weather the southeast will become dry laces evening western and northern areas will have showers b.b.c. We've also heard some of the human stories behind this dispute as well as the cost it's had on people's lives don't forget you can call us so 34595757 use the hash tag Southern strikes on Twitter by July I had quit my job and I'd taken a close the to high myself 7000 pounds a year and my family finances that race I used to commute to London until the 16th of December when I became too ill to do so which I believe is because of the strike I no longer have a job to go through I was commuting from Hastings it would take about an hour and a half each way but because of the strike action and disruption becoming absolutely impossible in fact the breakup of our relationship. Couldn't physically. Cease just a few feet. Apart. Right I want to hear your reaction to what was said in the program the last half hour those also shown on b.b.c. One in your stories of how the delays and destruction have affected you and your family can we come up with some solutions to the problem hash tag strike on Twitter or call 34595757 b.b.c. Se. Revealing the answer to your question I mean by. And by my side this hour we have. Ben vice and also Stephen trig from the Reigate Redhill and District Railway Users Association who was in the audience for the debate last night. Even What did you take away from its lack of opportunity to get the real questions in the government not turning up was appalling they are the people who finance this railway they are the people who are responsible for our services Ok we have some of those real questions What impact does this have on you personally this year long dispute Well actually from red to we've had cuts in services since 2012 so we've been having problems I personally gave up my job in London back in March I still stay as the local Ra uses Chairman Burton l. Drive to work I have and I always drive to work and I feel much more relaxed for it thank you and that decision you made Stephen based on your lack of being able to go to work on time and regularly and when you should be there well my 50 minute journey had already extended to Alice and from Hill from Red Hill into full on going for 50 minutes to 2 hours you could buy a bicycle doing 2 hours on a bike couldn't you easily here are not quite that Terry cash cow Bryson on Twitter says How about mentioning the service has been rubbish since before Charles Holton took over before the strikes or aren't you allowed to say that well you just said that Haven't you one of the service from finale and it's actually started when Charles wouldn't took over it was actually pretty good service up to 2012 what do you think's going wrong and what went wrong before this industrial dispute what went wrong for the. The government changed the basis we had London Bridge the works at London Bridge that created problems for Red Hill particularly they took a lot of London Bridge services out and that meant commuters from Red Hill had real problems getting into London. The funding of the the railway that there is none down in our region the southern and Thameslink networks both pay significant premiums to the government for running the service that money could have been invested in actually providing us with a service so do you personally think that the model is wrong the way this particular franchise is run is wrong I think the way this franchise is run is very wrong but Eve You've got to find a way of funding the railway at the same time as running in the railway for the passengers Ok Stephen stay with us for this hour Ben vice with us as well looking at social media Stephen Crittenden is from the Reigate Redhill District Railway Users Association and let's get your calls on as well 345957576 b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio Kent and b.b.c. Radio so don't so wherever you are in the south give me a call it's good to see 1st Michael there how would you think the last half hour. Frustrating in one way but really really good another journey you know. What it was it uncovered for you Michael I don't cover the intransigence of various parties and also the lack of moral fiber in the government to come into their work it was no wonder they're from the Department of Transport you know and you know. I feel an hour an hour m.p. Down here is as I asked questions in the house of the prime minister we haven't had trained since last July and as a prime minister as you know gave him back in November gave us an assurance that he would look into it but haven't happened yet the only people who seem to be able to run trains in this area will get get to the train company to run in this area of Brighton and Hove Albion we haven't had trains in Seaford. For months as I said nothing fancy Albion might argue with that having been stranded it said the m a he weeks ago to practise a past arriving at a rising in our town now that it Brighton and Hove Albion are playing at home we have normal trains older you wouldn't believe it Danny said he was one occasion we had replacement buses running as well as that's inlining And what about the person pads on you Michael Well I have to attend guys hospital for complex dental treatment. And under the university professor and arrive late for appointments I have a 5 hour journey home sometimes I have my mouth treated and they know which station hoping from London Bridge. You know 5 different trains on 3 or 4 different platforms change your platforms a gap wake a. Minute's notice so you've had the right run around after days treatment that probably doesn't help your recuperation what exact exactly but I mean. When when you're empty can't get the prime minister to to do anything and to intervene I just wonder what other countries you know of begin to think of us if this is you know we be talking about our opportunities after breakfast where we can even run our own train service you know a system it's a place of pooling Thank you Michael in c. For the other 345957 w 57 is our number if you'll join our conversation Ben vice has been looking at social media hashtags on strike when people say well I had a g. Od apology. Suggested that given if he's technical he says shouldn't it even be left to politicians and businessmen to decide maybe a more technocratic solution there in Khalid suggesting a supervised trial of driver and operated if safe stop strikes he says Meanwhile Adam Curry wants to know how many incidents actually happen each year that require high safety clearance that the r m t's worried about it may be tell you bit more about that later on the program Joe has limits but this is in response way back at start of the program that tale of the 81 year old man sitting on the middle of the Florida pack train show how slim says yes exactly strikes a creates more dangerous situations than the driver in the operation does in the 1st place as you heard in our debate a few minutes ago both sides seem to be very entrenched in their view shows hold do not guarantee a 2nd person ever show you look as though you have to chose to well tell the public you're going to guarantee a safety critical person then so what we've got until it is that we will roster a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as hard. As many shows so you find a 2nd you make range there for me are empty with Charles Horton from Southern Rail and mc Lynch went even further and said it was Southern that's refusing to compromise a settlement to this dispute based on a common sense approach from both parties and we think that it's available right now this afternoon if Charles wants to go outside and draw something up with me that is available immediately what's stopping the settlement is the attitude of the company towards changing the way that the trains are operated and they're backed up by the d.f.t. And Chris Grayling and now refusing to come to a compromise on Friday McQuillan from the as left train driver union said the 2 sides were worlds apart they are nowhere near any forward to you at the moment unfortunately. Because we've a long tradition of trying to find a way through things such as Houlton from southern had this response and I think the unions action is grossly disproportionate and they are causing a measurable damage not only to passengers but also to the regional economy. Well and it is a an appalling situation well after the debate we heard earlier the aren t. In southern agreed to hold further talks and that's the r n c Union which represents the guards not be as left drivers union who are behind the strike that starts of Midnight's we asked Mick Lynch the softer tone for an update on those talks and this is what he told us. Talking about how we go about setting something up and what the framework of that will be you know because I too much public arena in that sense but we are in contact with them and we're hoping to set something up for free so how do you go about solving an international dispute like this where both sides refuse to budge Let's talk to Dr Crossman he's industrial relations specialist at University of Sussex and lives in Horsham Dr Crossman Good morning. Good evening I should say wrong time of day for this should be a homo seats are obviously. Least to a world apart universe is a part Somebody said the other day so how did they come to meet in the middle Well normally you start off on a farm some common ground. All of a nanosecond as things stand at the moment because it just doesn't seem to be any common ground between them but I think is interesting because if you think about driver only operation. You know we've got probably 3040 percent strains around the country operating on the basis. The same as a revolver those of the train operating companies know what that tells me is that there's over say a problem in the relationship between they aren't. Suffering and this case there's no point to sitting around a table if you go into that negotiating room with the idea that you're not going to give any ground or to just sitting there and saying no no no it's going to end up with. No further forward to what we are now I think both Southern management and one or both of the unions has got to be prepared to give something in order to try and find a way through this and to get some kind of settlement what could what sort of solution might be acceptable to both policies Well I mean I think it's interesting if you look at. The officer Reller road report which came out at the end of last week is quite a slim report I've been trying to get the full version but at the moment only the 5 page version is available now what that seems to suggest is that driver only operation can be a safe method method of operation. New ones isn't it can is different Exactly and there are some things in that report which which raise concerns in my mind and I've said this before I'll go photographs about. The clarity of the monitors which the drivers will be using and some of those are not as reports as adequate they're far from adequate and I think that was something that could be put on the table as ones we've got all of the trades with adequate equipment and with as the report says competent stuff then let's trial it and see how it goes that way they could get over the problem that they've got so far not is how do you extract yourself from something which is a critical safety Chris. It will argument now the minute they start saying well we will give some ground and no safety is not an issue then the question everybody's going to ask is What if nothing changes we're going to go for a drive really operation with the same equipment that we've got now and then clearly this was never about safety I think it's fair to say that part of the the dispute is about job security and I think that is understandable that doesn't mean one that small that's never said that's what's a lot of people suspects is underlying part of this is well is an after the end of this franchise in 2020 Well yes and but I mean even before the end of the franchise in 2020 there is nothing to stop Southern any point in saying right we've changed our mind you know things have changed we've given a guarantee but you know guarantees can often be broken I think that's the concern that the union has got our 1st spring Stephen tricked into this at that point about . Whether the that the equipment is up to the job being asked of these things quite point to understand that that 30 percent to trains are mostly for a coach trying to Southern want to run 12 coach trained so they kept monitors are very very different but they know these newer better trains or this is still old technology these 2 types are trying to on the southern networks are using the new ones which do have probably good cat monitoring and they're the old ones and it's the old ones at least the southern drivers are going to be using and their screens are not good enough and we've written to the prime minister on this we've asked her to intervene we've asked her to get involved in say the driver's dispute I think is quite solvable by giving them the proper equipment to run the driver all right but this is well coached trying but this driver only operations being introduced now this month isn't it absolutely right yes we happen to have a driver who wishes to remain anonymous for a fairly obvious reason but he's on the phone Good evening to you could even tell you how you do it I'm well thank you sir takes us right to the heart of the problem then when your in your working position you're sitting you're driving seat. How do you feel about closing the doors you feel confident that Saif cannot 1st start by saying that the 3rd person you have an a in this. Studio and your last caller are I a sudden employees dream I are 2 people who have done the research on the matter and understand the ins and outs of the issues at heart. What you have is a multifaceted argument this isn't just about drive around your price sure there are this is multifaceted there are lots of different things apply. The last caller and the person of the shooter of how to correct these. The driver is a currently out. On not drive in the new modern Tritons that the company in the government Kate referring to the day of the government in the company a very clever use in news the lines of new modern trying to modernize in the route why they are doing that on some parts of these lines on certain parts of this network the vast majority of this network are not seem run with the strike they are being run with old stock with Top 40 and dodgy monitors. The company has said that cited by are willing to looking to upgrade the problem you've got is the company have imposed. As of the 1st of January so they have they haven't sat down and they haven't discussed the difference in monitors between the new trains and the outright so as a driver when I'm sitting there Station. Are commonly some parts of the allies and some parts of the Gulf when when I am driving in an area that yellow area was. Both up to the correct safety standard in order for d.i.y. To be competent Saif the. Dispatch message on that very well as a parent job I should or should feel safe there right as as a passenger you have no. No reason to stay on site because the standard those stations are. Standard in order to use the our dispatch methods we are not talking about that we are talking about an imposition of an unsafe method of trying dispatch because the. The safety standards are not the same as they were when they introduced over 20 years ago so as a driver we have to make Head decision as a cipher to close those thoughts this point in time with the equipment that we have over the new extension of the standard of monitors and the procedures that the company having place it is not 5. Cited that. Can be a cipher method of trying this isn't inspectors report the chief who came out last week that said it can be safe and it can be safety a well can be site provided he's done properly and the most Ice-T. Measures are introjects. I haven't that hasn't happened in this case by have imposed this isn't this is the company this is the government this is the c.f. Take have imposed this method of working without bringing in the correct side the procedures and cite the standards throughout the network now that he's the that is the real issue as a driver and tell me about the impact on you then if your unsure sometimes when you go to close the doors were whether it's safe your passengers how do you feel about that they say it's horrible it's a horrible feeling because not only are we in our jobs on the line we're putting our. Liberte on the line because we are if we are found to be negligent then we are able with we can be done for manslaughter ambitions prisons. Not only put in passenger safety at risk in Oliver to rest of the families at risk in our homes this is not what we want we want Saif we operated for our. Ok but if that's the weather that's with God As long as he's done properly and safely then that is all the driver wants and finally can I ask you a question I'll give Steven toss your questions one a 2nd but I want to know the strike days that you've been through so far because a lot of this dispute earlier on was with the our n.t. Was the car the as that drives a come into it just before Christmas and now these days these days are hitting you in the pockets I would imagine I don't know of course that they they are in to have been in an outright for 28 days they are supporting their members with funds was like a strike we do not receive a penny from us left when we was made an offer just as regards where we was made an offer. Except the imposition of. Which we wish we are not receiving any financial funding from our union we are hitting the pocket we do not getting anything from this we have not been made any glargine financial office it's just been a small one and there are no jobs not at risk either is it no no no we're not fighting for jobs we're not fighting for pie we want the correct and safest method of dispatch on those trying Ok Stephen Stevens a question for you yeah I. Quite agree with what you're saying is the oldest of the $37.00 seventh's are properly can you tell me how easy would it be to upgrade those to a standard that would allow you to be out to Saif drive in them I cannot give you an exact answer all I can tell you is that what I've heard is that it's not easy the problem you've got is not only the screens but it's the wiring and the cameras that are on the outrage $77.00 stop so it's not just a case of taking the stock out service and putting those screens in you got shot by the cameras because when you go and stand it is not just talked about 40 screens we're talking about bad lighting stations we're talking about when this inclement weather grinds bad sunlight they all affect the cameras Well you know what. A great outcome for you what would be better would be better for the company saying Ok look we're not going to roll out driver only operation at the moment we'll keep the guard until the technology and the retrofits keep up all until such time where you can feel safe that your passengers are safe on a personal level I want to properly I want to be able to know that when I dispatch that trying it is at the highest safety standards possible so whether that's with a God which in the current process in the current format the safest why on most. 60 percent of our network the safest way to do that is with a guard and till the Government and the company are willing to make the necessary safety stand the only way to the special trying safely or the safest possible way to be trying with the cards until such point as the government are willing to invest in the correct safety Quitman on and on the train and on the station you cannot impose an unsafe method of work and that's what people are misunderstanding it as less Caesarian is an ally was an unsafe method of work in any format on this network is. An unsafe method of locking because it hasn't been done properly been imposed it's been put together as quick as possible because. Within the company's management agreement with the t.s.a. . And targets it has to make today seem position if the out so they are rushing through Ok is that lies at the heart of the issue that's where the mine issue is with drivers is that it's been done incorrectly and it's being rushed and not on site appreciate your input thanks for give us a call that's an enormous train driver on Southern with a preview of the southeast right I'll be back with Sammy pi. How many more people fly. If have to be effective how many more have to leave their job lose their job I would just like to ask the 2 gentlemen Mick and Charles how you sleep at night knowing full well that the impact of this strike is having on individuals on their lives just some comments from the b.b.c. Rail crisis debate which you have between $730.00 and $8.00 the ceiling on Danny Pike radio on b.b.c. Sussex and b.b.c. Sorry plus b.b.c. Radio Kent and b.b.c. Radio silence you can call us with your comments 034595757 our Sussex political reporter Ben vise with studios Well keep an eye on social media who's saying what absolutely will use the hashtags of the strike and I'll pick it up a lot of Fi saying you supported Caroline pigeons idea of 4 star betray sions so independent person coming making both the are empty and 7 sit down around table and force them to agree to whatever the arbitrary decides also a lot of you talking about the safety issue So Meghan says that as a female single traveller she feels more unsafe waiting in the cold for a train that may not arrive than she would on a train without a conductor Where is Nick Tyrell says that he's concerned that Charles Horton couldn't guarantee that safety critical qualified staff on all trains a lot of you talking about the tone as well I mean I think this is best summed up perhaps by Kelly he says No wonder nothing's been sorted out on the telly debate on the debate we heard just before 8 o'clock people shouting over each other like school kids or a lot of you lot of support for Joe Coburn the b.b.c. Presenter who was chairing many people say she handled it very well the Association of British commuters they say she did handle it very well but only un peacekeepers could maybe sort this one out to get their needs sorting doesn't it Stephen Troy just just bear with us on a talk to Ian Bren's that now in Ken's in good evening to you. Brian I beg your pardon Sir Ian good to talk to you today tell us about the situation with you and the strike and the impact on you. Well the impact on us as a family are the 2 youngest children Grace and hide in 'd the schoolroom or I. The nearest station to us on Southern is after all we can actually take them to Apple do to get on the train now because it's such a rule station with the problems in the trains not turning up they would be left out for. Up to an hour and a half 1000 for the next available train if one doesn't come then you should how do your children and I are living in 12 so you know if we just leave in that well we because of our work commitment sometimes you have to which is why we now tight than to ham Street Station because at least there is a girl to the works at that station and there's a little more element of security for them there I mean on Friday December 49 train that they normally get was removed with no reason so we took them to our my wife took them to the 723 that was also cancelled at the last minute listen to strike days it know that I would talk about it so this is about is the overtime bad what's causing these changes on those days I believe the overtime ban and the working to rule whatever is going on I mean to be fair more due to Graves started school year before my son and before the strike actions came in there was hardly any problem with the train since the strike action has been going on the services got worse and worse on non-strike day your sympathies lie and if you have any sympathy with the commuters. I also got very little. Notice in the unions or think there are other ways to be able to negotiate without withdrawing like him thank you for telling us that from friends in Kent and with us in studio Steven Trigg from the rag 8 Red Hill and District Railway Users Association this thing about a safety trained person the 2nd safety trained person on the train that's a guard now in the future we known as a customer supervisor thank you very much indeed for that. So this person as I understand it and this did come from the debates but not too much there are exceptional circumstances under which a train could be released without that 2nd safety trained person on board what do you understand by the phrase exceptional circumstances my understanding is many commuters will notice you at the trying at station of Victoria and it gets cancelled because there's no conductor for the trying with the least exceptional circumstances where the conductor has a minute to get to the train they will then run the trying his one man operated safe. It should be safe I mean vast majority trying to run with. This pretty safely anyway and there's a good percentage there are actually one man Operator Ok I'll pick up that point in a couple of seconds but we have a genuine real time travel news now for you out of. Travel on the roads as well Southwest trains have problems in Dorset tonight buses are replacing their trains between and Weymouth because of a pallet cut between daughters to south and the roads not too bad at the moment. There is a lot in Folkston. Valley Road 20 the eastbound side towards the coast break down. Towards kind of straight out of more the b.b.c. Travel Center b.b.c. Southeast. Question I mean high. Hashtags Southern strike on Twitter all color so 34595757 we're on b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio Kent b.b.c. Radio silence until 9 o'clock then vice in reaction to a drive we just had on absolutely someone calling themselves not a says that he thought that the anonymous driver spoke more sense and more. Than anyone I've heard anywhere has to accept his truck if you agree or disagree he's a person sit in the front 10 Stephen exceptional circumstances where a train may be released with just a driver on board and without that 2nd safety trained person this has been raised to me before I want to get your take on this you're a wheelchair user you get on the train at Victoria or Brighton for instance and then the 2nd person is a. On the train out because there incoming service is likely or they fail to turn up for work or whatever the train sets off how do you let somebody know you need will cherish distance at a station up the line. I don't know it is the only starts to that one there should be some method to Shippey someone on the train. The exceptional circumstances are going to be very rare we would hope there isn't a wheelchair user on the train but is it better luck if you are that wheelchair Absolutely but if you've got a 1000 passengers on a train at Victoria and you cancel it and they all get off and they have to get on the next train you then got 2000 passengers on that train they won't fit so you know there's got to be a balance so you somewhere totally understand the wheelchair user concern that needs to be resolved there needs to be a way of dealing with that kind of issue so you don't have a problem overall with a sectional So it's just when exceptional certain circumstances become more of a norm is there a possibility for that there is a possibility for that and I think that should be written we actually believe there are a lot of mainline services are those services running fast for longer distances the current really are driver only we believe that all those trying should have an o.b.s. Or equipment on them and the trains that don't have them are the rare exception and they they might happen either once or twice a day now other 3000 trains running and I have been told that the r n c told one of our staff here at the radio station that on Saturday that did happen a disabled woman was refused to get onto a Bryson Southampton train when no one is available to help her off at West Worthing it was the 512 in the afternoon Brighton to Southampton according to the hour interiorly just gusting I mean shouldn't happen they should have procedures to deal with that situation because a wheelchair user needs to get to turn up where notch 9.9 percent of the time they can travel just like an ordinary commuter Ok move your calls coming up b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio Kent and b.b.c. Radio silence it's. Rail crisis debate and here's a summary of what happened when the key players met for added bait a little bit earlier this evening from our reporter Ben vices the Southern Rail crisis seems to me its label a label in blazoned above the stage of the b.b.c. Ses in days debating the screen instead of some of the q. Plays a crisis fielded questions from a 120 members of the public I'm hoping to hear the unions and Southern actually explain themselves to the people actually use the service I'd like so instead responsibility I want someone to actually take responsibility for this stupid mess and we're hoping to learn the real reasons for the problems that we're facing well with the stage set the key players took to it Charles hold do not guarantee a 2nd person ever to you know look you know you're a child you're well tell the public you're going to guarantee a safety critical person then so what we've got into it is that we will roster a 2nd safety trained person on as many trains as have them. As many shows so you find a 2nd this didn't particularly bother Bexhill and battle m.p. Hugh Merriman who also sits on the transport Select Committee he's given this some thought I wanted a 2nd member on the trains but if it's safe for a train to dispatch without that 2nd member on board then I don't want my hourly train on Southern to be cancelled this strikes me as better or I always had previously. Thought those angry words could in town Charles to agree to talks and indeed they had a thrilling review in the theatre after the event it was those 2 or 3 fruitful unlike those that have gone before remains to be see don't just tease me with that Ben So we heard at the end of the program Charles Houghton from southern and Mitchell Lynch from the r. In to union say they would have an offstage meeting with any microphones in that room but they couldn't have but you know it would have seemed so you had your ear. Glass up to the door you know what if only If only no but we do and if they did meet they agreed to it on stage they said look we will have further talks they actually did I mean j j Coburn the presenter sort of cheekily suggested at one point given that they both said oh it's terrible we both need rushing out a massive cheer for by the way you're right if you both agree that this is unacceptable for the traveling public why don't you go into a back room in the theater and hammer it out now Q cheers from the from the audience but they did in fact have a little preliminary word before they left the theater talks and sometimes resume today do you think that was driven just by the sheer ferocity of the comments from the audience I mean they were they must have left in no doubt that whatever the reasons for this disruption people are very very upset about it I mean absolutely this disruption and let's let's be clear this is for option I mean there have been strikes since April and 28 days and they are empty 30 days in total there's been disruption all non-strike days as well I think everyone in that audience was fed up with the chaos fed up with Southern To some extent fed up with the are empty for the strikes and they made their feelings known to those 2 men both of whom have very rarely appeared in public together but this was the 1st time they paid in front of an audience together fielding that wrath of the audience and having to stand right next to each other and field questions from each other and here's a couple people who were in the audience last night Debbie Richards in Oxted James welling in Crawley Good evening to you both. Hi Debbie what did you come away from last night's debate with. Well it certainly didn't fill me with any sort of coincidence that we're anywhere near a resolution to this crisis and that is really what we really can for was the hope that perhaps somebody I there is willing to stand in the stalemate but it just really wasn't. So 2 men going off for a 5 minute meeting the back room doesn't impress you that much it doesn't impress me as a whole we want a resolution it's been going on for far too long 28 days worth of strike and never knowing when they show up to the station where they're going to be able to get into work or noted that some certainty to really keep shop at night. Might have one too many drinks in the event what impact does that uncertainty have on you Debbie it has a massive impact on your life sometimes spending hours at the station having to spend money on a Phase one event to the trains never a time not you can't have a social life and sent to London any more because you don't know where you're going to go to get home and all it's not the life that I think up for when I 2 still live in op ed and only back in April which is when the strike started I thought it would be a 35 minute ride and sent to lend and and it's no longer that I know people to buy Hasan is no longer looking to buy here is a result of not for long that has a huge impact on high spikes in the flipside of that is there are some people living in commuter towns are actually saying well good you know stay in London if you want to work in London you live in London but that is cold comfort to you Debbie thank you very much for chatting to us and for being there last night no problem thank you James Welling ain't crawly How's this week looking for you got strike action tomorrow Wednesday Friday it disrupted a guaranteed pretty much on Thursday James what we needed if we can even I'm only a part time community to strong it started me directly. Due to my consulting work you know some truck I have no idea from from one week to next we're not travel basically are you. Sure you shouldn't believe a problem. For drivers or are you trying to go do your own number increased truck to try and not believe so for 3 or 4 courtrooms or Marmont results to go it's always desperately been let. Down here including West Sussex and then when local station is and then the stalls and so were those platforms one of the OSs Well let me ask you James what would happen if a 2nd person the old supervisor were. One available for train and it sets off with you we need it assuming there was to be one on board and you couldn't get off that you stop the ironies appen to make. Yes journey starts are a good bit yeah I had to do a barn kind of guess work I stuck my head out 3 bridges just before called in so. There's no I guess we're trying because the actual driver was asking about as well want to turn noise or simply i.b.s. . You know forget the drive because we need to know if there's an i.p.s. On a train right now it says and every nerve racking for him but basically ended up 3 bridges actually use that platform stop Nick one of a rent me down so you know Station and power problem goes straight say was related to some that station but it didn't pick up it's tiring that stuff didn't strike me as equality for somebody with your disability James very correct this is one to be honest horrified every time out I'll travel now unless I hear Nansen of them are trying out or not is a very b.s. . Problem revolved particular road in this fight change b.s. Is 3 bridges from Victoria because Cory's and stop are I have no idea if if there's going to be no regrets like I used to when it Station Ok you know to actually cry near stop your station to get you off and if not you know you're in trouble Steven Drake your way uses association group what do you think what James just told us Well I think he's bad taste left behind to the O.P.'s who Lisa China's reproaches should be making sure that he's Ok the o.b.s. Should have no news on the trying for Victoria 3 bridges and should make sure that somebody is looking after him can't crawly that's their job so does every need to be doing their job I think so there are sounds like something terrible is happening in other train driver who's calling us anonymously today on b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio can send b.b.c. Radio so don't screw evening. Hello there by that point you will make to me Tell me about your side of the story because you got hundreds of thousands of commuters an a and a bunch of drivers tell me what it's like for you Well it's quite daunting sometimes you know you've got the passengers and believe in almost most of the drivers and conductors o.b.s.s. Are feeling empathetic with the passengers but the problem is if the company keeps saying that as less of put on a rest day working band which is quite right I have and I did to it as majority of people do but the thing is we need craft times we have to have a rest day the same as anybody else there are we know in telling you to have a rest I do I want to work 67 days a week the problem is it's bad mismanagement in the 1st place is there a balance between the number of days you'd like to work to make some overtime money and you feeling on a will to do your job probably because your neck it well it is collar and it's very tiring it's not only tiring on the body it's mentally tiring and then they they want to do more safety critical stuff which is even more tiring and it's not a matter of just closing doors it is a matter of having somebody else on board the train safety critical if an accident happens if I'm incapacitated what happens to them by open the doors I jump out they get electrocuted whatever fear you what would you like to see from your point of view to bring an end to this dispute so that you could say your passengers by picking him up and dropping him off on time. What would I do what would I thought I'd like to see. Conductor reinstated I don't think that whatever ever happened. We are just a guinea pig for what's coming around the country and it's not only us every single person that you are trying within the u.k. Will have to be careful because this is what is going to come just just tell me this far let you go the last train you drove this is completely straw poll time with me to last train you drove it was at today a couple days ago today was the on board c.c.t.v. That makes you to see the rest the train was it good enough with the lens is clean Was it free of obstacles on the track side could you see your passengers. Every train is different in a sense that. The atomic die makes a difference you get clear from the sunshine you get when it's right and you get light reflected off. The top of the camp ground and it adds a different perspective to every single view so there is some guesswork what with regard it guesswork and it's not guesswork in the sense that I tend to get out the train and look with my own noise. You seem all with your own voice but on the camera thank you so much for talking to us thank you thank you thank you call tonight is the b.b.c. Sussex b.b.c. Sorry b.b.c. Radio cans and b.b.c. Radio silence with you and it's 13 minutes to 9 now the B.B.C.'s South East royalty by revealing the honest and. I mean question I mean I. Don't know Jones is the leader of Portsmouth Council Good evening to you Tony Jones Good evening Friday and what did you want to say about a debate we heard earlier and the position that you're in here well I mean it's just an absolutely terrible situation and it needs to be sorted out as soon as possible I think that it is now reaching the point where the government needs to get involved and I think that there's been a lot that's happened over the last few months particularly with the new bill went through around Union and strike action and from my Paul to people in my city in Portsmouth who are committing to London regularly on the line that case to happen Peter filled a haze only 3 Guilford a very very busy line often these trains are not long enough they are often 8 or 12 carriages they need to be longer than knots people staff from 330 in the afternoon through to about a stroke in the evening to get on the train back for more sleep Portsmouth's on and stopping any of the junctions on that route you absolutely you stand for the majority of the way the trains are faulty small. But the cost to the southeast economy and to people's lives as we heard this evening on the t.v. Program just unforgivable I think the part that the are empty have played in this is particularly questionable I think that the government needs to look very very closely how one union can create such a devastating effect on the economy of the southeast what should what should the get what should the government do at this point then I think that the point that was made this evening about some kind of mediation. Independent mediation is key for me I mean I get written to the leader of the city council regularly I get letters from it catch the general secretary of the are empty and in fact I had one from him on Friday afternoon just gone 3 days ago and in his lesson see me and other leaders across the southeast he talks about the phone number one point in his letter he says that the safety critical person on the train the safety security and excess ability this is what basically it's all about now we heard that the seeping people make Lynch also on the television and when it was put to him by Joe Coburn that actually the independent regulator has said that this will be safe no one the government independent regulators the Company them south island nobody is advocating an unsafe practice and if that were the case that we ruled out on the House and Safety Executive rules which are set down by not just our own government but lot of European Union and we had that report from the inspector last week as well of course didn't we Donna Jones from Portsmouth city council the lead of death thank you very much. Simi c. Cross the south. So tomorrow Tuesday the full drive has strike will affect something services most of them wanting to be running will be limited service on the Gatwick Express that will be running between under the Victorian Gatwick Airport every 15 minutes it's normally every 15 minutes but there will be no savings between gala capitals and Brighton not solve bus replacement services of course not about helps much but will be taking place to a warm across Sussex article sorry and Kent as well this strike is likely to go ahead on Wednesday as well and also on Friday Southwest trains in Dorset have buses replacing train to them it's been a power cut between now and Weymouth So that's affecting problems in Tulsa the seating on the road which is pretty quiet. The most was looking fine on the cameras and folks tonight we smile in his lies if he hadn't co-sponsored the a 20 had come Valley right to sell a broken down 3 hole that blocky had lain as he had from White Horse Hill town to come to St on the board at the b.b.c. Travel Center b.b.c. Southeast rail debate with me tight. Last May want to have their say so let's get them going Mike Lee New Haven Good morning to you could even see you. Down I know it on. My back just a bit discombobulated. Trains just a monopole night you know Lou are very near high when we have to the only other road that we go which is not knowing. When now can tracking us is our advice and one travel from safe the new highway which I'm told by some people. On it safe. Not the sight of a little safer because at town is suffering a lot with loss of vision is also trying now we can get there so people out there in the autumn it's beautiful in the sunshine every time but we just can't get it to spend money so you know everyone suffering this part of the call when I go online all white and the face I mean usually go with the middle of stuff in the morning and. If there's a site scope bless them and somebody cite this and I think oh trying news as I can't get any of them lying about it I came to the point and you know they the proper site is. Struggling to work and I would want to that's no not Rodin I would want to be so I can down the see 7 that's for sure Michael Thanks Norman Ashford Hello Norman. Thank you for putting me on thanks for your point today which is what this political strike please everybody get in the real world it's a load of nonsense being political the Union and the government or one of the other it's a political strike the military unions are trying to bring down the gun. And in the same way. Government was brought down in the seventy's but I want a general election or aggravation Mera causing. People to turn to lie that's what it's all about Norman Thank you Graham in Lymington Hi Graham. Do you know what bring in the. People that you are on the trying. To treat like how sick is and again some guy says I'm free to travel in London and there stood out is ridiculous and not in the way I meant to people on the train well sorry Thank you Graham in Lymington thank you for your call the CVO 345957 double 057 with me in the studio Steve intrigue the Reigate Red Hill and District Railway Users Association Let's try and move towards a resolution our last 5 minutes Stephen how is this going to end because we're in 27 saying and you know how long this can go on for down the well the 1st question to ask 2 guys in a room where is the government to government should became involved in this. Managing agents for the government they don't have funding themselves this railway So who's going to pay for the better screens who's going to Pike the extra on board supervisors with the government who go release the funds to go over to do it so while in the room discussing this with the Royal Union answer your own question I don't know I don't know what they do in the room they they can solve this pretty easily by getting out there and actually getting involved they're not standing there hiding behind the company they should be doing that how long can they do that for coming in can contrast Grayling that yes when you do that for as long as he likes Of course he can do for as long as he likes but these voters are going to vote for him even the m.p. That was said last night he said in the debate he's worried that he's voters won't vote for him any more. But that's still 34 years we're 33 years away isn't it absolutely so someone they need to get up and get in there the world what strikes me is that you know a majority of the M.P.'s in the south are conservatives and they've been lobbying the government and that the old Labor m.p. And Hove all the green m.p. In Brighton they've been lobbying the government as well it's getting nowhere why is that why won't they action on their their own M.P.'s you know begging. Please please also a question for me because I don't know I've been talked to as my job to ask the questions so you can just make a point yeah a lot of the drivers are actually not left wing Labor people they are people who are well paid middle class quite a few of the Tory voters they're striking for safety so why can't the government stand up and make what this driver only operation properly Saif That's the most important question let's go to Ricky in Shirley Warren in Southampton Hi Ricky Well I'm growing I'm great thanks for calling us tonight what do you think or you think it's all formats. Because when you look at the issue awareness. Are you don't you want to destroy or want to be all about the door. Ok And there's a point about the doors coming up in a couple of seconds which will come to the end of the program Stand by for that Martin in a spec I'm Hi Martin. You were on your way to being a train driver right I was actually you said. He's. An instructor of the new school. Board Ok this driver only operation are you happy with it you feel that safe. A pro for in the equipment is actually put in place you know every. Place for it to be safety wise. And it's and as far as you know at the moment is it or not I don't know what's going on down the Ready or not don't always go down the whole lot at the moment. Train drugs all the way down since I. Introduced safety systems a fresh Ok Martin Many thanks for your call the ceiling Ben vice political reporter been monitoring your communications or social media site where people on Twitter been saying then just a few final thoughts about the tone of the debate Chris Wright said it was a very good debate he can see all sides are at fault starting with the government creating an unmanageable super franchise Helen Williams says from Brian says she'd rather have had a bit more discussion on disabled people getting on and off trains only We've covered some of that tonight saying Daisy please wear that Alan and I'll leave you with a poem from howlin mad Brad Roses are red my rhymes and lame but do you know what's worse not being able to get the train hashtags of the strike to join the conversation thank you very much we're back to the mark for a show of the news then Paul Miller at 10 o'clock for you and thanks for being part of the program today thanks your contributions a c. Evening and finally under the rule of if you don't laugh you'll probably cry his Miles job and the team on radio falls News Quiz stop. Sing with the possums Seven-Mile it sound bandit and I mean it's been going on for so long that actually people who use 7 mile there's a bus replacement service they cheer. This particular Maku paydays just pitch to series like London surprised. That. The reason for the Southern male stronger than it is because the bison here are trying to show it who who opens the doors is it going to be the gods or is it going to be the troika this is what the dispute is apparent the train comes and they don't want to go on to do it because it means extra training but often when the train in the wrong lives doesn't it the trying stops well is simply ping newsies you press the button and all right and you get on you then press the button the door closes it's now on I had no training. Pretty good at. What they say meis they saying that because they want to make now own board supervisors and they don't do the doors but you're thinking surely the door was all owned bolt. To me that I should be part of their supervision are they saying that if somebody actually gets stuck in the door.