Think being I just time to. Put before I was mazes this sucks thing this to Joy. Mails and Chris stock Saturday morning from knowing he sees Raese in Foley's life. And he's trying to go to Australia for our Down hour which will literally be the hottest thing that you have on up all night tonight is not the case for me. It's going to be a scorcher Don an across the whole of mainland Australia are expecting heat wave conditions we've got a massive hot air moving from west to east here in Sydney on Thursday and Saturday we are expecting in parts of the city for the Mercury to soar to $45.00 or $46.00 degrees Celsius and I was looking to Dalton that in South Australia they are expecting potentially $49.00 or 50 degrees Celsius Now the record temperature recorded here in Australia back in 1960 is 50.7 degrees Celsius and there is an outside chance that that record could well be broken and I was looking through a list of some of these places in South Australia that are expecting these scorching temperatures and there is a place called Snow town which is about an hour and 45 minutes from Adelaide's snow town I can't imagine it's ever snowed there but they're expecting $49.00 degrees Celsius so heat and fire danger in many parts of Australia will be making this week quite an uncomfortable one of course it's no laughing matter as much as I asked you over and over again was it fair lied to be voted 5 degrees or otherwise there are some serious health considerations. But if you think of Australia as natural hazards we have clearly bushfires and they sadly do kill people we have floods again they can be fatal tropical site clones and storms are very dangerous here too if you add up all of the fatalities of those natural hazards they are eclipsed in total by people killed in Australia by heat waves excessive heat can bring on heart attack stroke heat exhaustion and it is dreamy dangerous so for those people in very warm parts of Australia they are urged to essentially to stay indoors close the curtain and not to go outside during the hot. This time of the day which is what between 11 in the morning and 4 o'clock in the afternoon and it has serious consequences for millions of people in this country and for the next hour Don We're joined by Roger may not Roger is a journalist and author originally from the u.k. He lived in Australia for a long time welcome to 55 Roger you've seen some pretty warm days in your time here certainly over the 3 years I've been here there been a number of heat waves and it's not just the heat wave Of course I mean we have also experienced recently the effect of the bushfires in the form of smoke haze and the smoke haze has been the worst I think any Australians have seen in their lifetime and in Sydney we've been treated to the spectacle of people walking around in face masks you know to protect themselves from inhaling the the smoke and it really quite troubling I think there was one stage last Thursday I think it was when you couldn't really see more than a couple 100 yards so now I live just out of Sydney and it was very very thick where I am and in the city it was difficult to see the Harbor Bridge and the opera house from one side of the harbor to the other there's a sort of conditions that you very rarely see in Australia and to really put the frighteners on to people this time and to talk about this don't we're joined on the line by Kate Kate is a Greens member in the house of the New South Wales Parliament Welcome to the program Kate this is Roger's been describing this excessive heat that's on the way for much of Australia how do you think Australia is prepared for. A more serious intensity of these natural hazards Yeah thanks for having me harm No I think great they all prepare the federal government for actually prepared to think well it's climate change and start doing something about it of course. Here in the south Laos we've had actually had a liberal or a conservative environment minister if you like he's a knowledge to pray somebody has said his government mates to do a bunch more but of course at the federal level talent of many e's unfortunately a world renowned for continuing to support call in coal fired power and really trying to get it done just still have they had their heads in the sand when it comes to climate change and so unfortunately that's without services work we don't have enough funding we don't have enough people on the ground in name all we're just saying this play out as he as he said and it's extremely horrific what is the worst that you've experienced Cantona What did it feel like well I've had a heart member that can I think it was 2002 was a nice guy actually Sydney experienced 46 degrade and she couldn't function we actually we were jumping into the hopper and it's of your listeners who know I see in Sydney Harbor it's from where I was and why it's not somewhere generally where you swim we had to avoid ferries that you know that were coming in it was extraordinarily hard I think train lines were buckling services broke down. Everybody surprised just hung out you know hanging out in shopping centers but was side deep knowledge Well I think people passed away as a result of that take that so sigh something that hasn't been talked about but it certainly it was a really really awful day and I think that's what we can to experience on Thursday . Same drug Yeah it is it is a very very serious situation as you rightly say it you know people do suffer enormously and sadly some people do die people who've got existing conditions long conditions or heart conditions and that's the worry the really worrying thing and last week particularly that with excessively bad it's got a little bit better since then but people around the world of course see these pictures on the television of the smoke and the bushfires they think you know sin is in danger of being becoming an inferno which is not really quite the case but it's very serious at the same time but I think it is the smoke pictures that really upset people and I've had lots of emails from friends overseas or from the u.k. Who are thinking of coming here or planning holidays here this Christmas in that area and they say you know what should we do should we come should we cancel hotel so it's really having a serious knock on effect for the tourism industry too I think. Yes So people are also talking about the taxes like thing in Sydney things like headaches for sore eyes people has had asked me to come back if I had asked Maurice to keep the talk about Athleta resurfacing and it would have a big impact on our tourism of course they call a race thinking about holidays or come actually about to head down the south coast for a holiday it's because the summer holidays he a lot of people go to the Big Bob what I've heard from her somebody in the fire service here who was actually predicts fryers and he was saying that all of the flies that was saying that in northern New South wild now around Sydney it's expected that they will go travel down the south coast as the summit continues and he said to make it like going down the south coast is that a kind of hope you have a plan baby and this what they for everybody saw many people in the South was also heading to cause to towns New South Wales is of course renowned for its beautiful order to create a full national Coxon coastal national parks. All over the summer I think a lot of them favorite holiday places are actually quite dangerous places to bait and we all have to be thinking about what way we'll be able to do with the food if the fire approaches and that is a really extraordinary situation for the table today and when I look at this from the outside it's wonder how you can explain despite all the bush flaws. In the water shortages and everything else why the queue to get in the country is still much longer than the queue to leave. Because ultimately a strategy is still you know obviously a fantastic isolate and despite the fact that many of us who want to say stronger action on climate change when we say some election results such as for example the election result thesea where despite We had a summit where we had got incredibly Dr rivers and not about rivers in fact it just dry riverbed now towns are running out of water we had this massive fish kill that night international headline in January despite all of these despite climate change I think being a huge issue before the election we still managed to elect a prime minister and a government that wasn't going to to do enough on climate change and people to say that that I want to for example move to New Zealand but I'm afraid you know regardless of that is Kerry still a wonderful place to leave unfortunately Abdullah takes just. Die on you know reflect I think what a lot of people particularly now wanting to say which is much stronger action on climate change now holding suggests that people are desperate now for this country to move to Salata May to win to be a gold later and all of that and I think people are determined to stay in Tron pride a pos we still have a lot of people coming in from many many different countries Mike writing to him because yes they've got a fantastic quality of life but I finally would you get climate change and from there we could start with the most sustainably I think would help not an e.s.l. But of course the world. Use a long time resident in Australia is it paradise or it's on the water yes it is a lovely part of the World Golf and Country in many ways and you know you go to see a little student you've got the whole countryside a lot of people don't understand that the city particularly is a very good. An area it's not of a desolate landscape it's very lush and in parts outside of the drought time of course and the drought of course is the big problem at the moment we've had the drought which is for sponsible mainly for the bush fires and those bushfires have been extraordinarily extensive probably the most extensive and the most intense in the years that I've lived here and you know people worry about that sort of thing worry particularly if they if they live near vision Taishan or forest area woodland the sort of thing I knew you would think twice these days about living in just out of the city and fairly through the wooded area because those flames travel very very fast and even if you're a long way from a bushfire say 20 or 30 kilometers. You have these embers which can be blown from the bush into tens of kilometers to other parts of the country and set up separate fires in urban areas as a result of it even they might be a long way from the bushfire there is always that danger that ignited leaves and embers could actually set fire to your own home with your own garden or you know the area where you live so you have to be on your guard I said to my wife the other day Do we have an exit plan do we ever and plan to get away she said well I've got the photographs stored in the case in just in case people always take the plan they photograph 1st and not where I'd like to watch us you know. It's interesting when we think of what's causing these bushfires Kate would know this better than most that is fires continue to rage here in New South Wales more than $100.00 most or more than half would be contained we've had serious fires in Western Australia in Queensland in Victoria and South Australia if you look at the map of fires in Australia they do almost wring the entire continent as the fires raged Clearly the political debate it. Raging to do you get the sense that in a political sense that the discussion is now turning to that yes climate change is definitely a factor in these fires and Australia needs to act urgently to try to have some sort of plan to try to make sure that this horrible smoke case we've seen in the east that red pink sun that we see go down because it's contaminated if you live by the smoke doesn't become normal. I think many people are now who wear a face everywhere I can go so may not really get into. The heart that would be the case but there's a group hers far and chased retired fire chased an emergency services person out of a group of 29 of them led by very articulate. Retired for a chase Greg Mullins who has thing from saying to maybe has been asking for meetings with our Prime Ministers are sent to the guy that Nathan request as no thank grants it. And to have a bushfire. Legend say some I think the Nia. We've had as I said it anyway cut out people 'd foreign minister here in the south Klaus Matt Cain just last week finally knowledge that climate change is barely causing the fires to be boring tends to be honest I behind the dial of thought is and that's what we've heard from only that said people are now touring the links very clearly got caught it's so hard not to die like everything we are experiencing is unprecedented Of course this was weeks and weeks and weeks ago the beginning of spring that we could that make a fire as had been through what we call going to rain forests down which he's basically I mentioned trying for a set with designs to sow way for Wall water essentially parity with the areas that we see tensely so significant for us in terms of tourism intensified of this city that was saying all of that so we have to remember it hasn't just dotted in sense of the last couple of weeks in terms of some we're not even in the middle of summer we haven't even reached Christmas and our whole study spending 2700000 hipped is the new South wild thought. And we all now unfortunately we had so much more to Ben except everybody's talking about it now Scott Morrison is apparently who was that part miniseries apparently in Hawaii on holiday so I think they were incredibly set up there wanting action on climate change and along with that it's like going to bitch and see response to climate change now which has to include millions if not billions to or to imagine 6 services and of course adaptation and emergency response unfortunately from innocence of your normal day. Of James count to. 1989 the bunch of discontent coming back from the Caribbean sometimes. Wow By the that's my that's true hey Cy he's deaf he's not for Spawn to get them I meant and I tell you what it says in its extraordinary time to be awake as we know it as Bill said earlier only night that he has died just in a couple of guys is going to be a. Welcome our story is going to be extraordinary and potentially one of the boys dies we think case if I can just interrupt very briefly as you know that the drought is one of the main causes of the of the bushfire situation at the moment of the dry conditions can you remind us what is the evidence full climate change having an effect or direct influence on the drought. Well. We had we had a. Grouse it was at the end of the century it was I think 3 or 4 years. Thought is loans $5.00 to $7.00 actually and it was an incredibly. Horrible draft and that's the thing that they have a trance that people say it's a $1.00 to $1.00 in 100 years not one in 1000 year event in fact scientists are now sighing that that drought has in fact continued and it's what we're saying now in fact when my a kind of away from it for a couple of days but in fact hearing that the city well and truly the impact of climate change we said for 20 or 30 years scientists in this country signing that pot to face country will retreat Richie's course will have less water flowing into the system and we will have less rainfall in many parts of the country when we do have rainfall it will be boring pain it will be much more sudden and it will aid what the flooding it will wipe off much of their topsoil and of course we're saying that as well will have greater storms will have more frequent and intense push start drought as Spain drought has painted in this country as a in a strictly rise of course hundreds if not to this extent. Unfortunately still karma generalists thing we have to many it and I have too many voices you know made here and politics to be honest and nice sites at the Strand as a result of you know just the cycles it's what a surlier experiences but that's ridiculous this is the longest period if we count the millennial drought as well and we are expecting hardly any rainfall summer we don't know when these 2. Pryke and we had made a saying expensive scams running out of order with never explain some of these recent big that it has had fossils that have some guy has survived that's got shell fossils for example and fish photos that have survived. For thousands of new forms of thousands of Louis and now they are in danger of becoming extinct. Because of the scale of big drought so it sounds crazy dented and unfortunately what we both are saying in a trial Emenike the south Wilds is a conservative government have refused to acknowledge climate change I have therefore not implemented water plans and water security plans which had to which had taken into Exchange promised change and the drought at the moment I have planned for water to pay at for example levels of water site 20 years ago or 25 years ago because they've refused to acknowledge that it's time to water 'd scarcity was 'd a reality that's what climate change denial is and has done and we've had cancer running out of water and we will have many more towns running out of water it's it's you know it had a lot of people talking about that kind of daring almost apocalypse in the face of the next gaze it's unfortunately it's true and part of the reason why is because our governments have not planned for the concert scenarios where actually saying play out this for us right now. Not just Rogers will in fact please you know fools well how do you this would listeners. How do you. Such How do you manage Would you where would you eat much drink just by inside when you go. To bed when you stay awake is it possible to sleep you need to see from Job Hajime job with you can you drive anywhere all those kind of things out there if you want to changing notes on that how did you cope. Well if you want to I suppose it's sort of a thing for us in the morning we get up and you know it's going to be a hard time so with the appliance People down every single blinding you have the sides and minimize going outside because if we were if I was working that day which I'm not going to be in my chains also on a break but are potentially side to it perhaps is is going to be called just tired harden or get to work early and late or early because this thing as well as the whole time support system has shut down because trying lines come buckle and communication systems can go which we had saying before so I think people are advising government taxes to exhaust Pickler's if I can and if they haven't is going to be cool enough to stay at home and to make sure you know if the pets have access to water 'd what we also saw is people without water for walls why so lots of people in backyards and in major no towns and rural areas there waiting at buckets and water 'd everything contender has to call qualities to one that could be anticipated so that's one of the things and a lot of people actually go into something Senate as a census and they can watch movies and stand in front of the fridge sex and. Other Not that. You show but that's what that's what people are doing. Now is get a sense that perhaps even in the biggest cities Australia Roger and being such an adult and such an urban Audi's society that sometimes you wonder if. Many Australians feel slightly removed from the bushfires from the drought because the air conditioning invariably works the water comes out the tap and if they need to escape they can if you think of other communities in more remote regional areas they don't necessarily have that escape they were saying there is a there are 2 Australia as you know there's the country Australia and there's the urban Australia and often the 2 don't meet they don't really have much experience of each other and certainly in the cities you know you can get by Apart from the actual heat and the temperature you can get by without sort of worrying too much about the climate as such but you know you stay at home as much to see again you don't wear too many clothes I'm lucky enough to work from home for most of the time so you'll often find me in a swimming costume in the office and you know you just you just have not rush around and have a glass of water by a side all the time just to keep cool and at night of course you know you try to fan in the bedroom you don't open the windows necessarily because that's inviting the heat to come in and you know you just you just get on with it and I think that's the great thing about Australians people do get on with it regardless of the problems and the challenges they face and you also see when it's very hot people are running inside. And probably not u.k. Either. Nobody. But you know. I was just that's quite a thing that I raise is unfortunately by still saying our government. Approving say housing developments and so I stop. Their houses going up the rice or warning them where there are a lot of it because they get out of sight phrase or whatever kind of shading that they have. Are I think that without that it's things like well I can prove that you . I just don't feel for a really hot climate they feel very feel that healthy houses that rely on activist which I just feel you know at some point we are going to bury my couch well and all that they tell us is that just that will equip the cable co. Ok thank you for joining us for this really appreciate it thanks very much thank you so much Kate famine there and we'll continue our Australian conversation in a moment or 2 I imagine because Rajan still stay with us till 3 o'clock Yeah that's right we've got some well we can talk about terrorism alcohol and serial killers so . Yeah yes around 1st let's get the latest 5 headlines has Victoria. On digital b.b.c. Census speak and various cities b.b.c. Radio 5 Live Jameco been faced anger from Labor M.P.'s at a parliamentary meeting following last week's election result mean all the shuttle breaks secretary kiss Thomas says he's seriously considering running to be the next leader of the polity $1000.00 this is a no the 9 into going on strike in Iraq either pay him patient safety it's the 1st time the Royal College of Nursing has taken industrial action. Half a 1000000 well full washing machines are being recalled because of fears they could catch fire the brands affected our industry it and Hotpoint models sold in the last 5 years and President Trump has described impeachment proceedings against him as an attempted coup by the Democrats he's compared his treatment to the victims of the 17th century Salem witch trials now his the sport with Aston Villa comfortably be Liverpool's youngest starting line up 5 nil to go through the semifinals of the e.f.l. Camp with an average age of 19 and 5 debutants the inexperienced Liverpool side never threaten Dean Smith to probably the weirdest major competition call of all are saying or ever been involved in you know they started really brightly they've got some really technically gifted young players but we're very clinical in what we did and very professional showed a really good attitude there was no win situation a little bit for us apart from going for the semifinal because everybody expected us to win we did what we had to do you can clobber taken a senior players to cattle for their Club World Cup semifinal against Mexican side Monterrey this evening if they win they'll face Brazil's from a go in the final for the chance to lift a new trophy we don't feel that's favorites or whatever we see also up as a challenge or it would be the 1st time for the country in particular up that can win the Club World Cup The most important cup competition in the world I don't know all winners from all different competitions in a continent we are here to represent Liverpool and Europe the match will be live on b.b.c. 2 from 5 30 pm Pep Guardiola says Mikel Arteta will travel to Oxford today for Manchester City's Lee Cup quarter final which will be off 5 Live commentry much later City coach John Tatar is in talks with his former club Arsenal over their managerial vacancy Well Duncan Ferguson will remain in caretaker charge of Everton against Leicester Everton are reportedly continuing to pursue Carlo Ancelotti to become their permanent manager We'll have updates of that much in 5 live Sport as well as man just in. Against culture step sorry as the chief executive has apologized for an anti racism campaign which is received heavy criticism for its use of monkeys on post as Luigi to see ever says he realizes it was inappropriate the film AC Milan an England striker Luther Blissett just told 5 Live the images just don't make sense it reminds me of him using the n. Word to say that it's Ok to use it because they're trying it just doesn't work they completed shows you know sends out the wrong message just completely about what it's about I think I find it very difficult to really see where they're coming from with. History's been made this fall and Sharon has become the 1st woman to beat a man at the p.t.c. Well don't championship the 25 year old how to get a $32.00 victory of a Ted added to the Suns round Alexandra Palace and says it's one of the best moments as she's made something for women's dots there will be Football Union says talks are continuing with England head coach Eddie Jones over a new contract and they won't rush to extend his deal through to the 2023 World Cup in France he is our if you chief executive Bill Sweeney as I said in Japan with the conversations are ongoing but they don't stop and start at any particular time there are an ongoing dialogue all the way through so we're not looking at the 6 Nations being at a time until you know we're in the middle of those charts and 7 jockeys who got 10 day bonds for ignoring a flag signal to stop or I says some down the suspensions overturned after appealing That's the latest from b.b.c. Sport. Premier League to anyone else. Today you can also say gold Crystal Seal says 3 pm. Premier League Sunday for the Fed doesn't mention stealing. Shows they say against Chelsea from say hey this is your station and this is. This is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on the b.b.c. Sound all night had a buyout and will fill most up 5 live in Australia where it's hot and alongside you feel you've got Raja may nod to the journalists like us yes an author as well. A while back rather to poke about some one of Australia's most notorious serial killers by the name of Ivan Milat says he was given 7 life sentences for the murders of 7 backpackers in the early 1990 s. Possibly late 19. Eighty's he died in October at the age of 74 and still after all of this time many questions remain does to whether there were more victims since Roger used to receive letters from Ivan Milat you know when I was writing one of my books about the backpack on murders I somehow managed to make contact with him never actually went to the prison because he won't allow to do that but he started writing to me and that correspondence continued for 10 years and over that time he must have written at least 9800 letters and quite long letters to I was a little bit uncomfortable about it to be honest I wasn't really sure whether we should be talking in this manner but I used it as an exercise to try to interview him about what might or might not have happened in the backpack of murders now of course Mallette always insisted he was innocent but I was always quietly hoping that he might drop his guard one day and say something which would implicate him that never happened sadly but I was able to put to him a lot of questions about the evidence that. Was made against him and a lot of evidence was was found a lot of belongings of the backpackers were found in his home and the homes of some of this relatives which obviously provided a very strong link with the backpack on murders and I would ask him questions about you know well how come you know your girlfriend at the time was wearing a Benetton the t. Shirt identical to the one but one of the girls had been wearing one of the goats been who'd been murdered and he said no no no she bought that in Hong Kong something sometime ago he'd always have an answer for difficult questions he always believed that he'd been framed which was totally wrong I mean he had been framed a tall but he was insisted that police had planted evidence in his house that they planted piece of clothing that they planted parts. The rifle with which these girls were killed in the 7 people who were killed 2 British backpackers 2 Australian backpackers and 3 Germans and you know they had terrible death some and they had awful experiences it all happened in the early $99.00 has and it took a couple of years for Milat himself to be identified as a possible killer and during that time the police accepted that a serial killer was on the loose but they had great difficulty tracking him down and finding out who actually did it eventually molests name came up and when they actually arrested him they had no idea that they would find so much implicating evidence in his house they were very lucky of course. And as a result of that Milat was charged with the murder of these 7 young backpackers and I think it was $9096.00 was sentenced to life imprisonment and of course he died in October and who was Paul and humans and what role did he play a poor onions was played a very very crucial part in implicating Milat and he was a British backpacker who was picked up by a Milat. In a newsagent's on the outskirts of Sydney one Sunday morning Poland and had been gone there to buy a drink he was hitching his way down to the Melbourne direction not came in struck up a conversation with Paul on ins he said do you want to lift me and said Yes Ok fine they got into the car and this form would drive car they got about half an hour 45 minutes into the journey and says on going to pull over you can't hear the radio at this particular point I'm going to put some cassettes because that's round my my seat and. The car picked up the front seat to access the cassettes and at that point Paul Onions turned around and saw recorded a group on the floor it was a bit unsettled by this. Seconds later it was a revolver on him and says you know don't worry I'm going to kill you underscore Robbie whatever the case my baby. Doesn't hang around he opens his side door a run for his life zigzags down this very very busy highway down the central reservation trying to flag down cars to stop and give him a lift to safety and no one stopped amazingly laugh and Malott was following him down the highway shooting at this moving target and in the end poor London's was moved to throw in the self into the front of an oncoming car to force him to stop that car was a people mover driven by a woman in Camber and he forced open the door said Help me help me now this man is trying to kill me well this woman of course a little bit on a little bit concerned about this she had a lot of kids in the back anyway she let him in and she drove off. Meanwhile realise the game was over and sauntered back to his car that incident was reported that to the police but never followed up unfortunately had it been followed up then arguably some of those backpackers would have been code was his motive well why was he killing backpackers. Peter Odom he was a psychopath by sickly I mean he was his very much a Jekyll and Jekyll and Hyde character on the one hand he could be quite pleasant to people but on the other hand he had this killing motive he came from a family of shooters basically they love carrying guns they love going out shooting kangaroos unfortunately graduated to killing human beings too and he always thought he could get away with it even though he had quite a strong criminal record he believed that he could get away with it and and he did for some time for some years the 1st killings started in the early part of late 989 and they finished in one to 92 and you know he he led this life of a workman he worked on the roads he was quite respectable he had a little bridge built bungalow on the outskirts of Sydney lived with his sister had a motorbike a holiday with a motorbike and you know quite a regard as a respectable member of the community but of course he had this other side and all those killings were. Carried out on days off from his work as a road contractor and that's when he was most would you think his motive was for getting in contact with you and Briggs changing that number of letters a 10 year period. What I think it's difficult to say really he always used to start his letters off with a little inscription at the top of the 1st letter saying Greetings from my son less cement cave a chore and you go boom that's the corrective sentiment Goldblum for in a highly dangerous prisoners. And then he would answer questions that I put to him about the case one of the questions I always wanted to ask him about was did he think there was more than one killer was always a possibility always about whether one man could have carried out these killings or whether he was assisted by somebody else and even the during the trial of Matt let that was openly canvassed and the judge and the prosecution accepted that there was a possibility that others might have been involved and so I was always keen to ask him a lot about the sort of scenario and he'd come back and say well look to be honest Roger I don't know I'm not a serial killer and you know I'm not quite sure what their modus operandi is you know how that how they behave it always have an answer for you and sometimes the answers were quite convincing you know and he he lived for 25 years in this so-called sunless a man cave virtually in solitary confinement he had little to do with the other prisoners and he basically faded away and he developed a soft goal cancer in the last year or so his life and you know became very very ill and in October he he died but before he actually died police officers returned to his and the cell and at his bedside trying to get him to open up trying to get him to admit to these killings but he never would he never would he always insisted he was innocent and he no he hated the authorities he hated the judges he hated the the criminal system he hated the. And he hated everybody and up when it came to his death he told his family not to pay for his funeral because he believed the prison authorities should be responsible for that a personal authority has argued that it was not their business they're not going to pay for it and in the end those this big standoff between the last family and the prison authorities about his funeral and the expenses and who should pay and in the end I think what happened they found about 2 or $3000.00 in either the last bank account as a result of the work he done over the is and the funeral was paid for out of that his body the taking of the crematorium nobody there apart from the committee room workers and he was incinerated and a lot of people would say goodbye to that you know I mean it was a fitting in for a man who was widely regarded as a monster in Australia there was no sympathy for him whatsoever in this country he had to accept that he did it and I'm certainly believe that he did it and he caused an enormous amount of grief for a lot of people when I went to the trial in 9096 he would see all the people connected to the case of the on the dads and the brothers and the sisters and the friends and you realize that so many hundreds of people from not only Australia from the u.k. And from Germany have been affected by this one man's heinous acts and you know the grief and the sadness that he caused would always be remembered by them and of course by Australians generally feel I know that you want to come in here and move the conversation on but just very quickly asking how far is it from Canberra Canberra to Melbourne. Good question is about to drive. Instead of an hour drive to. Say 6 hours yes that's good because Lloyd you are going to be 5 hours from. Life in Cambridge used to exit me we're going to hear the entirety of tonight's program because he says just driving from Canberra to Melbourne and listening to you during the day instead of overnight 36 degrees outside very parts countryside I love the show Glad to be able to listen for longer than I usually can your. Good good well another story that Roger and I were looking at and these 2 individuals Roger could well end up in the same goal been supermax prison that Ivan Milat spent all of those years in in the last 24 hours 2 brothers behind a failed plot to bomb an international flight from Sydney have been handed very lengthy jail terms 40 and 36 years these 2 brothers were jailed for this conspiracy to bring down an atty had Airways flight to Abu Dabi with a device with a bomb hidden inside a meat grinder this was all happening back in July of 2017 How would you assess Australia's attitude to one of the most serious issues of the time notwithstanding climate change but home grown extremism has been on the government's radar for many years now it's impossible to know how many plots we don't hear about that the authorities have thwarted but from the outside do you think Australia is doing a pretty reasonable job in keeping everybody safe I think it's got a handle on it certainly but there are enormous amount of luck with the n.t. Had always case I mean. The fact that that meat grinder was not. Put onto the plane was miraculous as we now know the bomb. Is due to be put on that plane was hidden in some kind of grinder in carry on luggage the person behind the check in desk thought it was a rather heavy case and I asked the man carrying it if he could redistribute the contents that's when the brothers of this man realize that the game might be up so they took the case away and realize that it was too Chancey to try to put the case on the aircraft at that particular stage had they have managed to put the case and there the bomb on that aircraft and $400.00 people would have been killed and it would have been one of the worst airline tragedies in history I think now these brothers are 51 and 34 have certain expertise to put that device together we're not quite sure how sophisticated it was at the other end of the spectrum Australia is very worried about homegrown extremism among the very young teenagers and men and women in their early twenty's How can Australia cope with that sort of threat because these individuals are born in Australia but somehow they have developed all be brainwashed into hating this country what can be done where you hope that the police have got some kind of inside knowledge we hope that they've got good contacts within those communities and we hope that they're being fed a certain amount of information whether it's by talking to those people or whether it's by you know intercepting phone calls whatever the case might be I mean the police are very effective these days in keeping tabs on potential terrorists in Australia and we can only hope that they will continue to succeed but of course sometimes they don't there was a police officer or member of the police force killed in parametric couple of years ago and we had a little care Facey a few years ago too which are the anniversary recently. In which 2 people were killed on of the 3 people including the gunman so. But there is always an undercurrent of possible terrorism there and in a country like Australia where you have so many different nationalities and so many groups you know still fighting it out on the ground in many respects in a people from the Middle East who've got their issues with other members of their own country or other groups their own country other political parties you know there's always the potential for. Terrorism and for violence and you just keep your fingers crossed that the police have managed to keep a handle on it and you know will be aware of any potential threats but as this case demonstrates the Ted airline this case demonstrates in a more by luck than judgement that those people were caught and in Australia there are just over 7000000 migrants and out of a population of 25000000 I think that works out to be just stunned 30 percent Brits still make up about a 1000000 of those migrants but increasingly we have migrants from China and India coming in large numbers right you were recently out on a job in a place called camper matter which is one of the western suburbs of Sydney just describe in terms of diversity multiculturalism how that compares to say people who've been to manly or Bondi Beach in Sydney how did it how does of Australia's diversity show itself in a city like Sydney when it's striking for a start I mean Care Cabral matter is a little Cambodia really I mean you go to carry matter and it's basically like Asian migrants. People you know from Cambodia people from Vietnam and it's a very you could almost think you were in the back streets of you know nonpaying or somewhere like that you know I mean it is there are so many there are very few European faces there but having said that a very polite and very hospitable community as well you know you go to a cafe there or a restaurant and people are. To talk to me that there's no hostility and no ill feeling there at all but it certainly is another part of the Sydney Sydney suburbs other groups in the south west Sydney and you'll find very sort of. Iraqi community Syrian community I was doing a story recently about the isolation of refugees and migrants who come to Australia I was talking to a group of guys in the families who'd been in Australia for about a year from Iraq and from from Syria and they'd settled in remarkably well their big issue the big problem which faces most migrants is one of language you know getting the language skills up and running and being able to communicate with people and once they get there then than that they're away one of these guys was a qualified electrician genea in Syria couldn't get a job even in an electrical retail shop in in in in Queensland because he didn't have the language skills you know very very sad but then they had their kids with than a little boy 56 years old been here 6 months or 9 now the ones who fly don't they assimilate so easily and he he had his English skills up and running you know he was he was home and draw you know there's no doubt about it he was a little Aussie and even spoke with an Australian accent after 6 or 7 months so you know it's it's hard for the older people who come here but much easier for the younger ones. Sounds like an immigrant story I was just thinking as you said that arrived in the u.k. From Nigeria the age of 6. Of a century ago. My best friend my 1st friend in the case was a guard called Christopher Tingo and he was the son of an a straight inactive famous and straight Mexico bug Yeah you know yeah Chris would say you are busy. 6 and 7 years old but I remember the you know now. When I look back we were both immigrants in a way over. You know I don't know if we see when you have a 1000000 English immigrants and in Australia Phil you know for some reason that doesn't compute with me when we see Australians. Think of them as immigrants because this Lish maybe because we share a language and share with this kind of history together. English people like yourself Raja regarded Nevertheless even despite 33 years regarded never less as migrants us around. Well the Australians like to have a lot of fun at the British expense obviously you know the. Term Pommy of course you know is this widely even. A subset may be said to anybody to think us a far as I'm concerned and people happy to have a go at you and I light hearted and. Basis but I think generally speaking and of course me of the next unlike mine sticks out like a sore thumb in Australia. Roger. But even so I feel very much at home you know I really do even know after 30 years or more I feel as though it is the place well I want to stay and it doesn't upset me at all that the occasional Australian might might have a go in a sort of a. Jocular sense but you know I think it's much much easier for the British here than it would be for those you know who come from countries with a foreign language another language and and of course you know you know the palms you know they're so eager to get here and I certainly my neck of the woods in the northern beaches of Sydney you know you don't hear I'm an Australian accent sometimes it's all an accident really running home to watch repeats of the bill. And of course we have all stereotypes about them as they have about us one of our stirred sobs is that on a hot day like today and I'm getting. How hot a stray there is thank you to a listener who says it's got to be 40 degrees in Adelaide 2nd week of 40 degrees temperatures and it's hellish according to them and we brought our service dogs on a hot day like today. Straightens reach for the amber nectar and there is a story about just how much they drink. Well these are new guidelines. I think it's fair to say that Australians drink far less now than they used to and new guidelines of come out this is the 1st decade update in a decade saying that people should now only drink the equivalent of $1.00 standard alcoholic drinks a day that equates to about $1010.00 standard drinks per week and I was listening to the a.b.c. The other day Roger and there was this one guy who reckons that he can do about 10 standard drinks in a lunch time certainly Australia has it's sort of legendary alcohol stories but it's not the boozy place that people might think it is you know I don't think on the other hand you could go around the c.b.d. Of said they had a lunchtime during the week and see quite a lot of people packing in the pubs people haven't given up the beer is such. As this particular story is concerned and they're suggesting now that you shouldn't drink more than 10 drinks a week. So listen to the drinks today but I have to say there is a little bit of good news hidden behind the terrible news and negative for information the Australian Labor dilv into the report and on page 30 they found that this information the conclusion by this medical body was based on only drinking on 3 days a week so the theory is that if you drink every day that week. You have a and perhaps have 2 drinks a day the effect on your body isn't going to be quite so much not quite sure how they get to that conclusion but certainly if you read page 30 of this report it might give you some confidence to more than a couple of drinks a day and I don't there's something in Darwin called a Darwin stubby and I think these are liter bottles of beer so it's not too Darwin stuff busy day is it right. Now a couple of you wouldn't even get past page 3 if you had if you were drinking. That's a great name for a drink. If I was in Australia Phil would I be regarded as an Aboriginal or in authentic Aboriginal words lots of people from Africa have come he either is migrants all refugee Gee I think the treatment of Australia's original inhabitants is one of Australia's greatest shame it doesn't really seem that every month for so you go with without having a story of racism directed at Indigenous people very briefly Roger it is it is a big problem isn't it for Australia to really embrace and reconcile with with its original inhabitants Yeah it is it is and they've tried it so often over the years and you know millions of dollars have been spent on trying to find a solution to the relationship between you know want a straight into an indigenous Australians and a lot of a lot of the measures in the programs have not really worked and I once went to a place called Utopia an ironic name I was one of the worst places I've been to the middle of Australia big Aboriginal community there and. It was all for I mean the there was nothing to the new buildings to sleep in and I believe everybody in Australia every white person Australia should be forced to go to a place like that to realise what sort of conditions some of these people live and you do tell some good stories I'll give you that. One of the worst places Rivers said Roger thank you very much and that story was about a race concerning a McDonald's franchisee was not. Eligible. For a straight hour for tonight so thanks Roger may not Thanks. For. Playing . Any. C.b.c. Radio. Good morning this is a poor night over 5 bob bob also had a boss. The main news on 5 live thousands of nurses in Northern Ireland perpetual count and in sports Aston Villa reached the League Cup semi finals up to comfortably beating Liverpool does. This b.b.c. Their 3. Daughters Victoria nurses in Northern Ireland are going on strike in Iraq over pay and patient safety it will be the 1st time the Royal College of Nursing has participated in such such action in its 103 year history. Is a cancer and I guess I would love a little Christmas mark all that would be wonderful and I would say stop. What you're dating and look at what is actually going on in Northern Ireland people don't really care or a bite. Anymore that's not what's important what's important is our health and education Jeremy face labor angry Labor M.P.'s and apologize for last week's general election defeat the party's at worst result since the 1930 s. He's coming under pressure to leave his position rather than stay until a new leader is elected former Labor leadership contender Miree Craig lost a Wakefield seat to a conservative last week and says Mr Coleman is responsible for the party's failure this was his campaign his manifesto his breaks that position run by his people on his team and it's his failure to tackle and.