Transcripts for BBC Radio Scotland FM BBC Radio Scotland FM 20190814 010000

When the visit is over there's Alison HE'S GOOD MORNING the former chancellor Philip Hammond is accusing the government of trying to force through a new deal breaks it by making demands that Brussels would never agree rising in the Times Mr Hammond said leaving the U.K. Without a deal would break up the U.K. Downing Street says that when he was Chancellor Mr Hammond did all he could to block Bracks it and undermine negotiations the common Speaker John Bercow has vowed to fight any suspension of Parliament to force through a no deal breaks it with every bone in his body speaking at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival he said he strongly believe the House of Commons must have its way Christopher hope is chief political correspondent of The Telegraph he went on we cannot have a situation which probably the shutdown we are right democratic society public will be have made it quite clear way sounds all public being corrodes a woman in the box screams can't pall of it start no deal bricks it others just said yes a post-mortem will take place later on the body of Nora choir in the British teenager who went missing while on holiday with her family Malaysia hundreds of people weren't involved in the search for the 15 year old girl who had special needs she hadn't been seen for more than a week. Police remain at Hong Kong's international airports have the clashes with protesters staging a sit in disrupted flights for a 2nd day demonstrators had used barricades to stop officers from entering his own correspondent Jonathan Head in the end the protesters themselves did what they did yesterday they have this motto taken from their kung fu hero Bruce Lee the water which is just to disperse not to provide resistance and in a matter of 25 minutes we saw them just just disappear suddenly a very tense situation evaporated Labor wants to fundamentally change the way university places are allocated it says they should be based on a level results rather than the current system of predicted grades to avoid being unfair to students from disadvantaged backgrounds our education correspondent is frankly macam like these plans have been announced was the body which represents higher education institutions universities U.K. Carries out its review of the admissions process some unions are warning a new application process held in the few weeks between results day in the start of the term would be extremely difficult to manage leaving any issue window for students to find financial support and accommodation the woman's been jailed for more than 2 years for starting a fire which caused more than 5 and a half 1000000 pounds worth of damage to Nottingham railway station that a 4 year old Gemma pate admitted causing the fire in the bin in the women's toilets our reporter Joe Haley heard the judge's comments is that the fire was started recklessly thoughtlessly but not deliberately The court had heard the fire spread rapidly and unchecked into the toilet ceiling and into the roof that when I was sprinklers that were rial said today that lessons have been. A public toilet in hope has been included on a list of the top 500 travel experiences in the U.K. Lonely Planet which compiled the guide described the Grade 2 listed facility as very beautiful That's the news Jonathan has this book Neil Lennon says acetic side of only themselves to blame. After crashing out of the Champions League at the qualifying stage the Scottish champions lost their 2nd leg $43.00 at home to clues over many a $54.00 overall when steam go into Euro police playoffs also into the Linfield after a 5 feet aggregate victory over F T suits Gough Montenegro in their qualifier in Belfast but it's a good night for many of the championship teams in the A.F.L. Cup Middlesbrough and Charlton lost on penalties to Crewe in forest green rovers of week to respect if we Huddersfield also out losing at home to Lincoln City for screen while they go on to face Premier League Bournemouth and run to win can still Ward is a home tie against Everton all of last night's results on the 2nd round draw on the B.B.C. Sport website and facing feud has been warned he has everything to lose by his next opponent out of a lean feud he will fight this week in Las Vegas next month as he moves ever closer to a much anticipated rematch with the B.B.C. Heavyweight champion Deonte Wilder this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Salads small speak of. The weather and much of England and Wales will have a breezy day with outbreaks of rain some heavy the possible rumble of thunder many new than areas will have the driest start but there's a risk of rain in showers developing in the afternoon especially in the West highs in most places in the mid to high teens who knew it was. A Premier League for anyone else to call the Sox and the South against 3 pm She. Doesn't Believe me at least Sunday should see. Sheffield United is against Crystal Palace to a close call from all sides say she'll see how useless the E.C. Says this is for. I yeah man down under Phil Mercer is waiting for us to talk over things Australian Feel Good morning yes I don't know how you doing very well all things all straight. With a kind of or a caught me this morning yes we're speaking with Reverend Bill Cruze thanks for coming in today Bill in the next week or so Bill is heading to the U.K. To take part in a forum called Western Sydney meets East London essentially there's search huge developments in western Sydney dock and they're building a brand new airport at a place called Badgerys Creek So it's going to provide a massive boost for jobs and the economy in that part of Sydney in this particular forum is looking at how Western Sydney can learn from parts of London in terms of regeneration yet you're going over in a week or so time specifically what are you hoping to learn what NOT to do so we hoping that they will tell us they have a Starbucks because that way it's not like shiny things with doors open and all of that but looking at how to grow communities and. Particularly London is doing a lot across London stuff and they are. In Sydney all the roué lines collocated to one point which is the the the harbor and yet people need to move from north to say Athan east to west and all of that so that a lot of light rail things which So we're going to look at some of these new tunnels that they're building in London look at some of the new urban regeneration because you don't just want to create ghettos anyway way so that you know you learn the sort of thing to build a big block a unit and throw everybody into it if you throw people into it who do you put in there what sorts of facilities do you need to down just a disco in a growing space all of that sort of stuff so. Basically look at London's experience because if you look at the regeneration of the Docklands a reason that it's been really good you know people are moving in and so we want to try to do the site here now your guys ation the Exodus fund Yeah and ation you would have food vans going out yeah parts of Sydney does that mean that the way that Sydney has evolved in being designed in terms of how people live where people live and the structure of the suburbs and public transport in many areas is failing because people who are doing it tough are essentially cast adrift because of a lack of infrastructure no trains no tram Exactly exactly and like when Sydney was developed often it followed the Aboriginal walking trials so the road with weave loops and dogs legs and all these sorts of things so that. We were trying to to do it probably because with the exodus and that we see the failures the people who are really struggling and part of what we are want to do is take really chronically unemployed people and not only get them into work but have a future for their children too so it's it's a total. China so that a family will go from you know living on the doll for several generations to actually stopping contributing to society not only that but their children learn a new way of of working as well say they made tools for the children and all of that this may surprise some people but there are quite a lot of people a surprising number of people in this country living in poverty poverty is ask arrived here or defined here as. Half of the average medium household one income one in 4 children live in poverty like people kind of see a stroller as the end of the Golden. Feliciano and it kind of it is but like all the throughout the Western world the money has been going to the wealthy the people of it all the money the Strayer from the US twenties have been the wealthy so you know their their income has gone through the roof and ordinary people of flat larder dropped so that separation between the rich or the poor is getting really big now and one last question before I throw you into the arms of. So to speak. This development of the new airport here Badgerys Creek it's designed to relieve pressure on Sydney's main airport and to be in an economic stimulus for that part of the city is it is it able do you think to be that social equalizer to to to make Australian society a bit fairer by giving people towards the bottom end of the spectrum more opportunity or is it just going to be the case that the people who run the airports are quite wealthy and they're just going to get wealthier and everywhere else is going to be left behind while US trial year has always kind of been Philander the figure calling Dr and we trying to hold on to that and it's very difficult in the way the world is at the moment because there's a lot of. Resentment towards. People who. Really shouldn't be resented you know I we we don't give the opportunities to just use who whose whose whose are like well particularly Aboriginal people having a really hard time here. And a struggle is had a real difficulty coming. To terms with its past because lots of Aboriginal people were poisoned shot and there were massacres and all of those sorts of things and ordinary Australian people migrant people come in and said we didn't do that and I said I but it's in our history and so there's a big debate about trying to put some recognition of Aboriginal people in our Constitution because in the beginning Aboriginal people weren't looked upon as human beings anyway so it's it's all of that and I had all the kids taken away so the stars and then this refugee people struggle here is a really interesting country because you've had these Y. Migration and each group that comes in kind of resists the next group. So you don't start off with kind of will you know the the English and the Irish and I OK I mean that was like I and then after World War 2 you had the the Italians analysis the grades of the 1st lot did like they were then we had the Middle East and so the you talents that the Greeks did not. Everybody's moving in and people didn't like them so it becomes a big mouth melting pot and the exciting thing is to go into a supermarket and look at who's holding hands with. And you find a Chinese man and a Greek woman or Aboriginal girl or. Kill Tisch man and it's that's the future that's the future and astrology used to think we'd be able to break all these people out you know they'd all become just like us but it doesn't happen like that. Yeah Reverend Cruz goes yes yes he Bill. Reverend Bill if you don't mind I know OK it's a huge challenge you go and you play I don't need to tell you that in terms of the generation urban regeneration May I suggest that you don't if you have time don't just visit London but there are there is in the U.K. They've gone through regeneration you might learn lessons from as well Manchester where father lives but he says you know case in heart and it's really interesting to see the Basle between regeneration and if you like communities that's where a lot of the challenges lie Well it really just communities I think like the horizontal stuff. And developments like vertical Reilly's as in buildings as in the same building Iraq Yeah so that to have a community you know huge spice and you know a you know I feel you need air is that people can congregate in not Khandahar you're always buildings if you go to high rise buildings you know the areas around you I think into crazy Filo this is a having the smallest consonant in the world as you or you can spread out we need to you know here live back to back to back your possible I run a program in Hong Kong and we took a whole lot of kids who had never seen grain spice. And all I'd ever seen was at Shelton cement and we took them into this place and I looked all around I hung together for about 10 minutes and then all of a sudden I just am they are oh a lot over the park. I think if Hong Kong can do it in a while I think any country can do it even though I have seen the reverse you know I've seen people come over from New Zealand who've never. Seen terrorist housing and just go absolutely bizarre with joy to see terrorist housing in cities in the U.K. When they come over here because they don't have it back oh you know. I think we can work with all those sort of things but how do you we were talking essentially about gentrification of West in. Western Sydney and that's essentially what it's a great general how do you this seems to me to be the conundrum when it comes to gentrification How did most people don't have a problem of gentrification but how do you make sure everybody gets gentrified Well that's the problem you see that that So I think we're pains in the bombs people like me coming he didn't like sure that when he tried to make sure as many people as possible could benefit from it because it's just a fact of life the rich benefit more and will take more and there's now internet like like one of the things I found a bit human beings is basically we want more so that even if you've got a $1000000000.00 in the bank you want more if you've got $10.00 in the bank you want more it's a human condition to want more if we have to try and share more well if it is human condition that's not it's not battle that one because that's always going to be there where the you know we impose philosophies or otherwise is part of the human condition let's accept it but having said that how do we ensure. There everybody when you gentrify Western Sydney for the people you might regard as they have not so they have less or whatever can afford to live where they think what we're doing ensure that what we're doing is the government's regulated that Sam any chronically unemployed people or long term unemployed have to be working on this project now getting chronically unemployed people into work is a long long process it's not just. Knocking on the door and saying I go to work you've actually got to take him by the hand and take him to get their birth certificates you might have to teach them literacy you've got all of these sorts of skills that you need to put into people before they get work and then we're working a lot or we will be working a lot with single moms and there you need to provide kind of childcare for the children and you need to have programs for the children so that they actually have a change as well say you need to create mentors for kids so that they see it there's a better chance so that it's a long hard project it's not just saying he has a job get out there and do it you know does seem though for. You know Australia has is looking at this regeneration of Western Sydney in a multi-pronged perspective or a complex or 3 dimensional whatever you want to call it was made to because I don't remember the fact that regeneration of cities in London the very people were very concerned about you know regenerating the people's situation is well yeah well that's that's what we want to look at we look want to look at you know make sure we're on the right track and a lot of a lot of the developers in a lot so why start MIT or the developers are made to have a social conscience you know but it gets it gets kind of dry and out of them by the council. But what about Bill one of the big stories here is there are brand new residential towers that cost an absolute fortune to buy these apartments some of these towers don't have huge crack saw other yeah failings and people have been forced to leave their homes they've been presented with multi 1000000 pounds bills to repair these buildings so it's rather since not just people at the the lower end of the sorrow it's the. Others and Grenfell towers that the burning in England. I think we've we've looked there's hundreds of buildings in Sydney that has got the clearing of the A.B.C. I B C's got it yes and in Victoria they spending hundreds of millions of dollars so that. The shake up in the building industry starting to to happen which has to happen because these people have bought their apartments and there they suddenly find they have to pay for appears they never even knew about and so a group here are trying to take the government to court because it's on government land some of these things so yeah height. Builders get away with too much Sydney has changed in the years that idea here it's more highrise than it's ever been and it's a busy a city clearly than it's ever been there's always chatter bill about looking at the role that migration and immigration is playing on congestion because congestion doesn't just mean cars on the roads It means are places schools hospitals are going all the rest of it there is a school of thought here in Australia that suggests that immigration is too high because congestion is so bad what's your view I think that. The why the world these with the population in the world to die I think it's kind of a noise indulgence society you know we've got too many people because there are too many people in the world anyway and if they don't come here where are they gonna come I think it's a worldwide problem I think. In Australia we got a lot of land that we could people want to come and move into the cities south that this is flat all the migrants to come flood into the 2 cities Sydney and Melbourne now that's now moves afoot to move them into the country and create countries into the the city of Canberra which is like half a 1000000 people that's a really nice place to leave we just couldn't make sure. We need a lot more planning than we had then it's at the very time when governments are giving away a lot of the the expertise they used to have because. You know they want to outsource everything governments do and that means they've lost the skills that I once had we once had the government we did all this work after World War 2 we had all these immigrants come in and they build all these dams and all these things and infrastructure and all of that and. Over the last few years a lot of that fellow why and I think that's basically because governments of lost the skills that they have a outsource to private industry and Providence trees I mean just they're making profit and when a lot of this has to be done by government it's worth noting Don that bill is going back in time you're actually one of us aren't you you are warning born in the U.K. Yeah I was born in well the land of Bow Bells Yeah my dad lived believe it or not and Hackney as a he's here he. Has changed there are concerned that he well he is he was lived with his brother single mom and I lived in Hackney journey to the Persian and he used to go around with his brother because there was no social welfare in eyes like he and his brother used to go around collecting the horse dung off the roads and selling it for a penny a bag this is Jerry in the Depression and give the money to his mom so they could survive in the years to come and cry talk about what it was like in London during the British depression and it's always stuck in me that what happened to him shouldn't happen and it's all around it one of the places we're going there is Hackney to look at the urban regeneration the south and Middlesbrough even today in middle school so to speak haven't we we are part of an organization in England called recovery which is. People who have recovered from drug and alcohol and every year we have a big March fill each and this year it's Middlesborough and $16000.00 recovered alcoholics and drug addicts turn up and March to the village and it's a sign to society you don't have to remain in your addiction and it's really touching to watch all that many people and families and I have all the signs and it's like an Olympic pride should I go because you're in Blackpool is that we're in Blackpool here we did at the Blackpool couple years ago we were somewhere else I forget where we were last year there was in southern England the part Perth but we get 16000 people and we do one in Sydney we get 500 and we think it's wonderful but it's amazing for for people who have been right at the bottom of the heap can I tell you my story please let me tell you the story and how long is it pass up let me up a minute writing I work with there's a doctor I know who society's a CNAME site works in Pittsburgh in the United States on the streets with homeless people he told me the story about how people can recover right in Pittsburgh there was a line by at the entrance to the line why was a big pile of rubbish because all the dumpsters used to dump their rubbish they used to have that big pile and then you'd have a whole aisle and they need have another Pollock to mountains or rubbish and in the middle of that piles of rubbish hundreds man used to sleep in all the rubbish with all these. Bits and mists and all of that and I came to visit him all the time and he wouldn't change and I kept saying he and it's you know a paragraph. They kept visiting him and then one day the nurse who went out with a doctor. Sid Why don't we clean up the Spags So they turned up with shovels and gloves and bags and they claim the space between the 2 piles are rubbish put a cap at their math down so he could sleep claiming the next time they were in he'd been sleeping on it and he got a little glass and he put a flower said there's the flour that they kept visiting and one day said do you want to see my family so showed photos of his family they only say that after a while because they kept visiting he said Give me a room so they got him a room he got settled in he in one night they all went over to have a bit of a party in the room with him celebrating that it was a fad as he said I left him back at me camp so they all trooped back to the camp as they walked up the pile of rubbish stood round the top of the pile of rubbish this all got I looks at them and says how could anybody ever live like that. Like that's what we see every die because you have the the the that the restaurants there loaves and for homeless people and how many meals is that which you bear the fares in the dry well so we quite a big thing but what what I'm a knees that the ability in people the United inability of the in Ida billeted in people is limitless and we wipe so many people have the flip side of this of course is that for for people who are seemingly in a good life they can fall off the. Just in a hot day in a heartbeat in a heartbeat when one of the problems with all these low interest rates now is that so many people have maxed out on credit because it's so cheap if that goes up so when that starts to go up. To be a mass of people losing their mortgages. And that's inevitable might be 10 years' time but sooner or later it's gonna happen and you always have to be ready for that people most people working to die are probably one or 2 packets of wife from crisis . And I mention that Simon England do you have. You know actually not I don't doubt it one moment but I was wondering what do you mean you took a moment to go about how about the skills that have been lost over time well use ye who need a trick who engineer do you have to use those skills do you ever bring that into play with your charity work yeah. I actually read New Scientist. And. What are much on the site a lot of the skills I learned were organizing skills and they're really useful and going back to 1st principles I was showing someone a slide rule the other day because they didn't even know what it was you know because always at the calculators and all that to change all the light bulbs in the church I was coming to me I was gone I don't worry about any I leave that other plane because I did need an electrician around my golf once you're over there you never know. No Not I I try and use the skills one thing I used to he couldn't do it now but. It was when I was working like that it was in the days when. People used to think women were good at precious work so we had these rise of women making electronic valves and they'd sit there all day just putting all the bits seem or not we had the making semiconductors and it was process work out over and over and I reckon and I'd started working in King's Cross at that time and I'd learned the pair of the hard so used to get Evan high goal the women in the rows like nothing sexual or whatever but it kind of the engineer the other engineers used to look at me a bit dry yes you'd have a different reaction these days if she'd ever title it if I was going to say also if you think totally different now if you think the women are. Down there I wouldn't put up with any of that crap those women put up with that and I used to feel really angry because they were just treated as as like the valves I will miking you know if one of them left you just put someone else in. Things and moved on I can't thank you no for joining us this morning over here afternoon for you know looking forward to you coming over I'll come over and style out yeah I do actually yeah I do I will oh well I'll get all the details off field please do please do or maybe you know we can pick up from where we left off tonight OK Thank you thanks very much there really is a pleasure and we got more from you in a moment. Yes that's right we've got. An expert scene from a core University to talk about whale not I know I know well and so know bogeymen allowed then that's right yes so it's yeah it will be great whales not it will be a 1st drop or not of many firsts that you can provide. Did for over a vacuum in fact I was going to Reverend William David Cruz has been our guest for the last 25 minutes or so he runs the exit is Foundation one of Sydney's largest frontline charities Now let's got delayed his father headlines as Alice in his own digital B.B.C. Sam's small space vs is Baby C. Radio 5 law if the former chancellor Philip Hammond is accusing Boris Johnson's government of trying to wreck the chance of a Brics it deal being reached with the E.U. By making demands Brussels can never accept writing in The Times he wins a new deal banks it would break the you can oppose most examination will take place later on the body of the British teenage in North Korea and the 15 year old was discovered by search teams more than a week after she disappeared during a holiday in Malaysia. A police officer is admitted possessing more than $9000.00 indecent images of children 15 P.C. Stephen McGoldrick downloaded the illegal pictures while he was working for Gloucestershire constabulary he'll be sentenced next month homecoming airport has resumed operations hundreds of flights which were cancelled due to a sit in by pro-democracy demonstrators they were they were cautious just before midnight when protesters put up barricades to stop police forcing their way into the airport that's the news Jonathan has this built Celtic will not play Champions League football this season the Scottish champions are right after losing their 2nd leg thought Ryan qualifier to kluge of the mania it was one or going into last night's much in Glasgow but Neil Lennon's side found themselves 21 behind or not to get a half time they appear to have turned around Al in the 2nd half Thanks to Golsen James Forrest and also Ned Watts clues to the Ivy League again though only for Ron Christie to put Celtic $32.00 in front with 14 minutes to play to a goal from the visitors the war ended Celtic's and mileage and Neil Lennon's Champions League dreams for another season began a dubious 6 altogether stop crosses you know you've got to get your head on things you've got to close people down and it was almost like we scored and then we wanted to switch off and control the game and even at the start of the game the way to pass over the ball where to slow the table we needed that single question really and you never constable there was a threat a surplus for them I mean it's serious able to go. For free on the night $54.00 overall Celtic drop into the Europa League playoffs also into the little pally playoffs and Linfield after a $53.00 aggregate victory over. In the a qualifier in Belfast not a good night for several of the championship teams in each cup for strained action Middlesbrough and Charlton lost on penalties to Crewe and forest green rovers of league to respect of Lee how to secure that also after losing at home to Lincoln City one nil no problem for Leeds store the Graham Alexander's league to soften city female. The league is a step up from what we're used to loss here in New York we're playing a top Championship team that went so close to the Premier League you know so you know it is. Always thought that the the gap between the 2 clubs is this massive bottle the gap on the pitch will not break but when you get enough on a surge you know you've got top quality players taking opportunities to fish stalk and roam to Lincoln's award is a home tie against Everton for the screen will also face Premier League opposition in Bournemouth the fuel draw and all of last night's results on the B.B.C. Sport website Manchester City have avoided a transfer ban despite admitting to breaching rules relating to the international transfer and signing of undelete 1000 players city of instead being fined 315000 pounds by Fifa and the money on his playing partner or 3 to the last 16 of the Cincinnati Masters doubles the former world number one was playing just 24 hours after his 1st singles much in 7 months pretty good a little bit tired I felt a bit drained but more sort of like mentally rose and physically and once I got to the match started to. Find so that those that was a positive thing British number one Kyle Edmund lost his singles much in straight sets to world number 8 Daniel Medvedev and placing a few he will take on beaten Swede in Las Vegas on September 14th as he moves ever closer to a much anticipated rematch with the B.B.C. Heavyweight champion D.M.T. Wild. Children chops is off. Off she goes like malfunctioning Morse code. Out now she's sending an S.O.S. . She's listening to worst date terrible or just plain embarrassing tales find your funny on the B.B.C. Found that. This is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live available on the B.B.C. Sounds a night out of bio he wavers remote No 2 but we are going to talk whale not now because we need to go down under to reconvene with most of our men there Phil Yes thanks. Dr Vanessa Perata has joined us from McCoury University which is on the other side of the Harbor Bridge Vanessa is a member of the Marine predator research group that sounds really very exciting and the reason we're so intrigued by your work involves a drone and humpback whales I presume Ang and collecting the blow the it's not just take us through what this research is all about well for your listeners that don't know what while snotty is a festival clear that up well not essentially is that juicy biological mixture that comes out of while blowhole So the blowhole is just like us it's a noise it has a nose so wells have noses because they mammals and they breathe it so coming directly out of their lungs when they breathe every time they breathe easy mixture of D.N.A. Hormones and bacteria and we are collecting that using dragons to provide a snapshot of whale health so essentially it's like a being a doctor on the say you can capture an animal that is over 40 tons with a white 17 made in length so we go to the animals and without hurting them using imaging technology such as drawings we can collect these samples and in terms of logistics You'd imagine that it's quite a tricky operation because firstly you don't know where the whale he's going to come to the surface and did they breathe every time they come to the surface and also how do you go about collecting the the meat because the snorter on the drone I guess in a little bucket or a little sort of receptacle Yeah exactly like that so when you. We do all this research of Sydney and it's on a boat so you I'd die with a line of collaborated with a wonderful industry pot night actually an Englishman list is made from hell a guy scientific here in some surprise. And well it is it's I thought it'd be a nice little mix for the show that in English talent over here in Australia helping us out doing great things in rain signs and so what we do is we hop on a boat we go offshore and we spot while so on them I'm actually a marine mammal observer as well so I'm trying to look for wiles and once we can see a while Alistair then prepares the dry so that means we get a petri dish which is for your listeners it's a small circle little plastic dish that has a lead in it fits in the palm of your hand and we put this on top of the drum and that's going to collect a sample that's very important that the leader shops because we don't want to collect bacteria from the air or from my hands or from the drone or anything like that we want to just collect it from the wilds. And then in the distance if I see a wild pud that I think is pretty good and when they do come to the surface most of the time they do break it's only if they're sort of resting and I don't do anything that I just kind of log with as you can imagine is big animal does that flip is hanging down does looking at the surface and not breathing off your love. Where you know you're after work in front of the delegate as well and then once in position we would generally say Callista I think these ones are a good one to fly over in Alice day flies are drawn from the back of the bars and I have to the whales position then as they sue me I off I can't see them when they go subsurface you can actually see where they are and then I Alistair who's looking through this little camera for on the drawing so we can see the drawing say and Alice a guys I can see that they're about to come up and surface and we can't save the set from the boat and that's what's so cool about it and then as the wild comes up Alice is in position he launches the During down just above the while hovering over the well comes to the surface to take a breath you can see this. This big visual breath and that's the white. That's not the petri dish is then opened the drone is accelerating through the dense is part of the Whilst not all that very visible plume collecting the sample on both sides of the Petri dish and then leave the shop securing a sample in minimizing contamination of the drawing comes back to the boat and that's where I collect the sample analysis actually describe this is kind of like a peep team a racing car pit crew you know you bring the car you know he's got the drawing you get the sample which is the wheel equivalent you switch wheels and then you go back out again and sample you know how many times would you do this tearing up an expedition Well one time which was a record we collected 40 samples in one day so it was literally a case of we don't have to be close to the whales and that's what's really good and that's what we like using the drawing but sometimes the whales come in close to the button so it's just a little half a minute fly for the drawing to go out to the sample and come back because just worth noting that especially at this time of the year eastern Australia and Western Australia for that matter is the humpback highway isn't they come up from Antarctica to breeding grounds in Queensland so sometimes you have this amazing opportunity to see and also hear the whales set on a cliff without actually leaving land it's amazing it's that's what's so great about it and especially because the whales here are now beautiful waters of the strata their populations are recovering post whaling So this is a massive boom of Wiles' people love whales Let's hope most people do and so people will migrate to the cliffs to see these animals as well as when they migrate to our warm waters to braid and one final question for me before our posture over to Dothan What are you finding in this whilst not this mucous what sort of. Highlight award sort of things are highlighted in terms of what's going on within the whales and in the health and their longevity Well that's a really good question and a lot it's the most asked question and it's totally a good one because well why would you fly drone over a while what's the fun in that all or is that. And the real big thing we need to think of here is 1st of all accessing this type of information in the past was limited to Wales that way the stranded in which case the holes was compromised or whales that would deliberately killed this is providing a snapshot of health so way targeting specifically bacteria or D.N.A. Bacterial D.N.A. So we're able to look work at what is representative of what we would consider a relatively healthy while and we can compare the bacteria of different whale populations to see how healthy different populations up but what we've also found for the very 1st time is that these whales are carrying viruses and we collected by this method which is a world 1st which is so great so essentially the take home message is that these whales acting as massive mobile monitors of the ocean health collecting information a microscopic level say from areas like Antarctica that we can collect of Sydney and we would never have thought of this in the past so the power of using emerging technologies and new sequencing technology in the lab has allowed us to bigger and better questions by harnessing the power of Wiles So when you when you get the snot would you do with it Vendi put it under much microscope straight away or what we do is once we get this not depending if we had targeting viruses which is R.N.A. We want to put that in a minus ID freezer on the on the buyers or if we're just looking for bacteria put that in a little askew a little cool a box and then I go back to the laboratory and all swelled the samples it's kind of like a forensic 10 into a frenzy scientist and I use a big cotton swab what you do you know use your well what if you do but you know a buyer who had so I don't contaminate samples and then we extract the D.N.A. From that and once we create more D.N.A. So i can we create more D.N.A. Then we extract the D.N.A. And then I send that the an a to be sent off to these big giant machine that looks like a washing machine but it's millions of dollars worth of machine because it's cold and it does something which was known as next generation say can sing and it is able to tell us in a in a snapshot the types of bacteria living in the wilds. And this is just like generates a library of information that we would otherwise not be able to access in the past of course I imagine that you could get information from Whale we as well. You know and correct me if I'm wrong they do we think Wells is they do but actually I think you need to think a bit bigger than while away while Pew is if I was coming to that. Post going to thank you I don't think looking forward to that question all night. Is one of my favorite topics and I actually presented a Ted extolled which is saying to come out and it's talking about whales that these massive ecosystem monitors and they play important ecological roles in a marine environment that we often forget so you they will fade in one pot and pill in another and essentially whenever they poop they transferring a huge mass of nutrients and on in different parts of the ocean and that's really important. That's it seen from Asian technology for you is it as it's not new in the series based on generally not trying to be funny now but I imagine as I'm I remember in biology is that's really useful information what's in the good. Yes because it was in the pit you can provide in the snapshot of what the 18 is how they die as people can also collect hormones to look at stress levels through fecal matter and this some great research coming out of the Northern Hemisphere in Canadian and American waters where they've actually trained sniff adults to sniff out wild and this is actually a think and I speak I speak about this in my text talk as well and they've Chinese little dogs to sit on the bow of a boat to sniff out while and then the scientists can then collect well pay which. I think out of the blue whale and humpback whale pay when it's actually aren't should very R.N.G. So it's a reflecting the color of when they ingesting Creole and this is really providing a lot of information of stress levels over in Northern Hemisphere populations while we were that lived while we was a story I cut you Karen O. Is just going to one last point we can actually collect whales out of Sydney because the whales on usually feeding up here only opportunistically So for us it's much better case to collect from the other and I was just wondering why we're always seemingly miffed when whales be chased we don't understand why they become beach and it sounds from what you're saying is we do know a lot about whales Why why don't we understand when that calamity be full an entire pod of whales What why do we understand why how they came to be judged and that's a really good question and this is a question like this is one of the questions I get asked most of my career is why do you whilst Randall Bache the answer is is it's a bit of a mystery we have absolutely no idea but in the signs Well we're always trying to think beyond and think of different possible scenarios as to why and we tend to say the majority of animals that are at least in the cetacean well which is the whales dolphins and porpoises we tend to see a lot of echo locating animals and echo locating animals of those that produce the sound so it's like a sound that they will send out and retract so that the analysts are not rich. He's like sign a thank you and dolphins do it as well to east whales do failing whales dying music allocation they use the lower frequencies but we tend to see a lot of those mass trending especially here in Australia of those of pilot whales where they large social groups in a maybe a case that one individual is not very well and the rest follow or it may be a case that an animal when they do strand it quite sick for example even in the Mediterranean and there's been literature documenting says sperm whale stranding And when people open up their stomachs and it's really important to do necropsies and that's an animal autopsy and to find out what's inside the stomachs and often these animals are now straining with a lot of plastic in the way this is not the case all the time I must point out but it is a good opportunity to identify some of the some of those anthropogenic impacts that these animals a being faced with. Because it happens a lot in New Zealand doesn't it we often hear that they have mass stranding So over there some of the talk over the years in terms of stranding has been are they distracted or disorientated by coastal development by ship saw perhaps other disturbances in the water is that the most likely case or is it could it be as simple as the ocean currents are driving them into into the beach it could be a number of things also the geographical location I know in New Zealand it's a very famous area in the northern part of New Zealand for animals to strand and maybe a case of these animals are very inquisitive and maybe one gets distracted leads the others or maybe it may be a case that the acoustic environment is becoming too loud for these animals to navigate we simply don't know but we can we can discredit any of these possibilities but over the years gotten Australia has been very forthright and New Zealand has been extremely forthright in terms of opposing Japan so-called scientific whaling program in the Southern Ocean the work the you've been doing Vanessa with the drones and the other bits of research the poor and whatnot does that really give lied to the fact that the Japan has always said well we need to kill whales too to fully research them whereas most people would say well you killing them to eat them and just under the guise of scientific research is what you're doing really taking off the table once and for all the need to kill a whale to find out what's going on inside our research is definitely a great alternative to having to hit wiles and I believe that we shouldn't have to hit whales at all and that's why I'm so excited about our research because it is using noninvasive techniques we don't want to have to hit whiles it's actually an ethical thing as well and in astrology had to do any sort of research you need animal ethics to be able to make sure that what you're doing is not going to harm the animals or if depending on what you're trying to do if the questions are worthy of your scientific research So definitely the work I've been doing as well as many others around the world do point to collecting information remotely and without having to hit these animals and our work is such a strong case for the need to not whale anymore which is something that I'm obviously not. Advocating that we go out and while but obviously the type of research we are doing is one that does show that there are great alternatives out there to research why and far more fun as well I mean it has to be said when you go out on one of these whale watching boats from Sydney to is one of the joys to be close to some of these magnificent creatures is it around $30000.00 animals going up and down the East Coast is that about right because that was that would seem to be a pretty healthy number going up and down to breeding go back down to feed to the Southern Ocean yes the east coast humpback whale population is doing X. Credibly Well the growing at around 11 percent each year which is really good and is over estimated of over at least $30000.00 individuals probably a bit more but just being conservative but the numbers are doing really really well and so as a result we now need to think of managing a population that's essentially recovered so that brings in a whole host of different questions so now we've got a population doing well as marine scientists we now need to manage so many whales and environment and the interactions that they have with human activities and things like climate change is a big problem for these population because we're now seeing a reduction in sea ice in the areas that they fade in an intact ticker which is bad news for a growing well population because that decline in say yes means a decline in krill habitat so in tatic krill is their main source of food that they down there and if they lose habitat for krill you lose a main food source for these humpback whales that are also growing and also we as humans have a script so this is kind of bad news for them and the results of your work to determine the health of the whales and therefore the health of the oceans is it good or bad news in terms of you mentioned plastic pollution and other pollution you getting a snapshot that the oceans aren't as healthy as they should be given that the oceans do store so much carbon for example so there's as an implication for climate change perhaps that if the oceans aren't doing so well that those. Songlines might have to have to wake up a bit more well we definitely to be aware of Wales as kind of like the canary in the coal mine for the ocean and my research can't really answer many of those questions just yet but definitely if we study to detect viruses that are very hate sensitive or can only thrive in certain temperatures that may be indicative that the ocean is changing in areas like in Talk to go or even off. Coast here in Australia so it is it's putting small little pieces of the puzzle to overall help us answer those very big questions you know when they were part of a mystery story on General Hossam as you noted for is there a bit of a mystery as to how these animals breed in places like Harvey Bay Is it quite a secretive process I mean you have to stand why because you know obviously people ought to be left alone at that very personal time but it from a scientific perspective is it have you shown much of a light on on the actual breeding sort of process in terms of sort of where they go and what actually happens well the breeding process is quite the way I describe it to people because people were fascinated with this how do whales reproduce and kind of explain it like airplane refueling so if you think of that you've got a very logic raft another logic craft and it has been cases of whales they like for example one of my friends risen Tama last year and they took a photo of this humpback whale male appreciate my own trying to make with his fame and I had never seen anything like that before so it's not well documented is defined this snippets of here in there of while sort of doing this and that but what we do know with the especially the humpback whales is that the males will seem to attract the females and this usually happens in the breeding grounds so we can we can definitely records and singing but it's not often that we see the mating but as a singer no. I think yeah many people would disagree with you but it seems that the world's a very much like us and they are they have an amazing dogs or mating song or whatever not he. Well I was going to say before you know I interrupted I was going to say is just when you when you talk in a moment to go about the whales don't to grow to about the whales be the canaries in the coal mine I was going to say what's a huge canary with an awful oh you should never been huge you know within the context of an ocean away or must be smaller than a canary in a coal mine he usually much much much smaller and it goes all over the place but there will be some cultures where that that whale is meat I was thinking of the pharaoh Islanders when we were talking about Japan also if you've been to the Faroe Islands do know what they do to whales when the whales come there to mate or breed or whatever it is they do when they come into the bay it sets or they wait for them and they slaughter them dunnit it's obviously a very controversial topic and remembering when I speak about this kind of thing that there's a lot of cultural play that comes into why people do what they do so as scientists we need to be very much aware of that but also try and show other people that they are different ways around these and it's different ways to look at these animals and these animals are intelligent creatures they have a massive sense of understanding of their environment and to learn more about them we can do it in ways that a positive and noninvasive which is just for you because you clearly have a fascination for wells as we all do because a beautiful creature you can literally spend hours as I've done on a coast to mine was but hard California where the whales seem to come in with some point of the current member which And just want to say that because for hours you never get tired of watching how they you never get tired of it which is the most beautiful or most fascinating interesting well for you. Oh well I'd love to go to that the gray whales up there one of the most fascinating whales from a would probably be one I've not yet sane and that's the not well over the now wild depending on how you say it and they're the ones that live in the Arctic and they've got a left tusk that's actually their left incisor So it's a lesser left tooth the males have that erupts from their kind of the mouth and now I'd love to see them but I have seen I quite like the sperm whale because I think they're really cool they've got the world's biggest brain they make a huge sound almost They sound their decibel levels as higher than an airplane taking off they've got the social units they dive down kilometers deep underneath the ocean that we can't seem to trenches they can hold their breath for over an hour I have to say the spin miles a pretty cool animal that I've seen we've also same blue whales of Sydney which many of your listeners probably couldn't it never even thought up and I think the right says well off here are whales darn missiles dinosaurs a century there you could say that though they're some of the world's biggest animals all the world's biggest animals the blue whale definitely takes the cake there at City made isn't linked IRA 100 tons massive creatures and in fact I'd love to come to the Natural History Museum and see that blue whale skeleton that. Maybe you can arrange that and I was going to say we're going to have No No Phil is a man who arranges a home say welcome any sort of fills the rebels can pay for it. You have phone me your phone I mean it's fascinating what you do it doesn't sound like work a tool and I'm not even going to I was going to start of my introduction Tiba DOCSIS nor ask you Father People don't call you that but clearly no and I apologize No actually it was a dream and stormed off now it was just last week just last night I got called on all the way is not lady. But is it. Is it was Susan argument of the way that you collecting this not over me over bogey were you in a corner it sounded more like fun it sounded like a great day out in the ocean Well I think I might sell it a little too well because no one talks about the hours I spend in the laboratory all the hours of stress looking at the weather or if there's a while going to turn up when you've got good weather oh how we going to work what but to go on that kind of thing there is definitely an element to that I just like to talk about the fun you can really feel just as well seasickness Yes I as a marine biologist I do at times suffer from sea sickness but you just have to have a pal of a match and then you come good to go. So I think all in all Steve. Very different from you know who is good it's not vomits. That's till lately it's been a room pleasure speaking to you generally and wish you well if you do come of this side that since all of this feud has what's it's all about I'm sure many of our listeners would love to ask questions you mean feel a privilege to talk to you directly but I can assure you that there will be many many questions for you and be fun so I'm not convinced it's not from the despite all the hard work. I'm not convinced you can win so you can win it's a great it's if you come to Sydney or anywhere up the East. The West Coast you have the opportunity to go and see take it take it because it is one of the joys. Thank you thank you very much both of you thanks very much Dr Vanessa Pirata there from the Marine predator Research Group McCoury University and thanks very much T.V. Shows well for inviting her on to our program. I say thank you Lawson talk about oh by the way the next hour we'll speak with one of the guys helped to build what didn't help he's a guy that created this set that you see at Woodstock on this 50th anniversary of the iconic festival he tells you just how much of a disaster. Woodstock was and is also here is what he says. The news is down home it is. A crime. Anyone else this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live it's very cold Good morning this is awful night of our bombed also not a boy the main news on 5 Live the foam which fell slower accuses the government said deliberately wrecking any chance of the brakes it derailed and in sports to concede 4 in Glasgow was the caution to the Champions League. This is B.B.C. 5 with the B.B.C. News on. The former chancellor Philip Hammond is accusing the government of trying to force through a no. By making a set of negotiating demands Brussels would never accept in the times he says a new deal departure from the you would pray.

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