Yes c.b.c. . And it is 4 o'clock on the new structure of camera graph and the main news this hour a crash in North Yorkshire leaves 2 teenagers dancing and installed heartbreak that Tottenham have been knocked out of the champions late. Sixty's b.b.c. . 2 teenagers a dad and 7 people are injured in a crash in North Yorkshire last night 2 children are among those who after a 3 car collision on the a 61 near Thirsk counterterrorism police signed nerve agent was used to try and murder a former Russian spinors daughter in Salzburg So again nearly a scrip polar acritical e l a police officer who was one of the 1st on the scene is also in a serious condition affairs correspondent Daniel Sanford's been at Scotland Yard and those are huge trawl of witnesses and c.c.t.v. From the day of the attack in the days leading up to it but we attempt to identify where the native agent came from and also of course an attempt to find that needle in the haystack the person or the people who delivered the poison and then once the evidence being gathered if it still points to a foreign power it'll be up to the government to handle the fallout 2 reviews of found save the children failed to deal and secretly with inappropriate behavior complaints that there was evidence of unsafe behavior the charity their views in 2015 found there were significant failures in the h.r. Response to the informal complaints the Home Office says sends out new proposals to tackle domestic abuse including the 1st of a statutory definition of the offense it recognises the kinds of abuse suffered including psychological physical sexual and emotional abuse is also plans for tougher sentences Kate Goetia is chief executive at Women's Aid where tonight. There is to be a Connecticut law that will help to bring to complete after the shutter island the movie women won't be able to go to the police about this crime but they want desperately want access like faking services to get training with the services already on the train with now calling on the government guarantee. Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bill at Bin Selman has had lunch with the queen and three's a major mysteries I 3 day state visit to the k. Coming group c. Blame the Saudis for the war in Yemen have been holding protests well strides the financial secretary to the Treasury there is value here and the fact that we can keep our citizens safe through a close security relationship with the Saudi Arabians The 2nd thing is that whilst things may not be as we like within Saudi Arabia at the moment this crown prince is moving things in the right direction the number of living kidney donors has dipped to an 8 year low and has blood in transplants says the richest 87 last year and Amazon's Alexa's been letting on unprompted creepy laugh it's been described as which like often the device isn't in use and isn't says it's working to fix it that is the 5 Live news Shabnam has the sport now point to Tino insists he's still a dream up after Tottenham's Champions League quarter final place was snatched away by un says so on her main post Spurs ahead in the 1st half but it's highly inside in 2 goals in 3 minutes in the 2nd half to win 43 on aggregate punches he has added He's disappointed but happy and proud of his players Manchester City went through to the last day beating Basel 52 on aggregate they lost the 2nd like 21 which was a 1st time defeat the city since 2016 in the Scottish Premiership Kilmarnock climbs a 5th of to beating St Johnston to nail wolves the regained a 6 point lead at the top of the Championship after a 3 no win over Leeds and Team Sky say they're happy to cooperate with any investigation by the u.c.i. Or. To strongly denying allegations in the parliamentary reports that the team and sobriety Wiggins use drugs to enhance performance rather than for medical needs the president of well cycling's governing body. Has called for an inquiry this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital online smartphones and sample it and the weather another day of sunny spells and scattered showers most of the rains expected in the north with some places where the sale sang froid old a place of 79 and 8 again moved from b.b.c. Funny to life we finally put costs wake up some and he's going behind the scenes Good morning on Am and f.m. Run the u.k. On digital and on life abroad shot up all night and in the star will take another look at the poisoning incident in Salzburg will find out from a Russian. Worked the Russian view is from. The security services on the poisons. Will find out too about something we really don't know enough about which is what has been happening in that suburb of Damascus. Hutto is terrible and that's where we're going 1st. We understand that Syrian government forces have made gains in their longstanding offensive to retake Eastern Ghouta the last major rebel held area on the outskirts of Damascus an eyewitness said that troops overran the town of Beit Sahour after airstrikes and artillery fire hundreds least have died since the Syrian government intensified its efforts to seize Eastern Ghouta last month we were joined by Simon Adams executive director of the global center for Responsibility to Protect and they've been looking very closely into what's happening in in eastern Guta Simon. Count it count Phil you make any changes of of any any any good she motioned to know what's happening in Ghouta right now. Thanks for having me on were I did 'd you know it's an incredibly grim situation and of course it was a terrible day yesterday in any student teacher and I think it's only going to get worse today that the area is now Cathy Hoffa and I think in the last 24 hours we 'd would say all kinds of indiscriminate weapons used against people at a stage or I think that tells you everything you need to know about what the Syrian government is doing there and yesterday we saw a very sort of I mean holy trinity of indiscriminate weaponry so napalm and it's very very weapons used against civilians who so often really struck almost this dance records residential areas and also chemical weapons like how are they managing to do this with without so much as a whimper from anyone else. I mean I think that's probably the most appalling thing about the entire situation of course is that this is happening sort of nakedly in front of the eyes of the world you know of 11 days ago we had that resolution at the u.n. Security Council resolution. 2401 which was cold for a cease firing easting to turn a 30 day cease fire across Syria the Russians voted for that by the way then promptly went out with their Syrian and Iranian allies and intensified the offensive on a sting to the to such an extent that actually 318 civilians have been killed we need to continue to think that there is handle went up in the air 2 Saturdays ago so I think it's a very legitimate question it raises the closes the whole the matter of you know what kind of a world are we living in at the moment and it's a world where I think all norms and all the principles that if they developed since the 2nd World War around human rights and humanitarianism are under threat and I think we see that most Stokley in in Syria or in anything due to this week. What evidence have you been able to amass for. Additional using napalm. Everything is one thing getting reports 'd from from people anything to. Possibly the napalm and also the other in century weapons white phosphorous also possible being dropped on on people yesterday in a stinky 'd jail and I mean you can't these things without any kind of reservation because you know I'm not there on the ground and of course the Syrian government has made sure that international observers. Human rights activists and that journalists like yourselves are not able to get into these areas but certainly the reports of where getting from a range of sources 'd that we trust show that in surgery weapons napalm possibly a white phosphorus carefully used cross the munitions definitely used and then again there's some pretty strong indications that chlorine was possibly used 'd. With. Respect you know to the international reaction you've matched the u.n. What about the European Union because they've they've tried to take a lead on Syria recently haven't they from the United States as a not been any saying from the European Union at all. Well I think it sticks beyond the question of the European Union it's a really a much broader question about what can the world do and I mean I think back to in December 2016 when the letter which was very similar in many respects to what's happening in Eastern culture at the moment the level of kind of revulsion internationally of 'd the extent of that crime and the horrible things that people sold of of the the absolute obliteration of a letter of course you know a number of states including you know a majority of the u.n. General Assembly to set up an investigative body to looking to what was happening in Syria and to potentially hold perpetrators accountable and I mean these are very grim times there is no positive plans I can possibly put on the on the story of what's happening in Syria this week but I do keep in my mind I mean I'm. 2050 this year I'm old enough to have remembered the wars in the former Yugoslavia and I certainly remember a time when the people who were conducting that war the people like General Rucker melodic she carried out the genocide attributes or in July of 9094 I used to swagger around with enormous power and a sense of impunity and I think if we see that think of impunity with President Assad and the people around them then and with his Russian and Iranian allies well blockage is now a prisoner in The Hague you know and I think the wheels of history do move on and I hope that one day we 'd will see anyone from all sides because there are no angels in this situation but particularly I think from the Syrian government have so much blood on their hands that we will see these people eventually in handcuffs and held accountable for their actions. Simon Adams from the global center for Responsibility to Protect thanks very much Simon Well it's a 100 years since the vote was extended to at least some British women but current headlines suggest that equality between the sexes has not been achieved the 8th of March is International Women's Day and celebration of all that's been achieved but also a chance to highlight the issues that still need to be addressed to minor or child is head of policy and insight forces society the U.K.'s leading charity campaigning for gender equality and women's rights I asked her how important this International Women's Day is in 2800. Room hotel moment there on how far we are or how father could go by we want to you know with you know where we. Recently have some of the challenges women a full blown I don't know who have been really important part of that committee and what we are looking at there weren't movement tree is what we really could come quickly as a movement and critique the fight and the things that the great moment a great potential at the moment on the energy I want to drive the women's movement but it really depends on a bike and. Thank you I mean you come a long way as the old cigarette used to say I mean your founder was obviously after universal suffrage and sure enough that came almost 100 years ago didn't it. Yes. There is some there were able to mock when clearly the 1st women getting the vote and recognize the contributions of thousands of women to that fight and particularly moving forward the forces the size because all found them innocent both like the for us because before parliament the women's right to vote but we do still have a long way to go so less than a 3rd of all M.P.'s women women still do the majority of them pay caring what women that on average amount percent less than men and in particular today we're going attention to the issue of low pay for women that women a much more likely to be in low pay. And that's partly because they're more like being flexible part time what in those caring commitments that they have a nose job with a lower paid with a hook for progression but what I because as a society we tend to devalue the what that with and. That means a quarter of working women and less than the real living wage we don't some research which highlights the impact on the line. Of those women such as they were to lose their job and have enough money put aside to last and cover their costs for one week if that bills were to go up hard say that they would have to cut back on food of 40 percent say they'd have to cut back on the heating which given the weather we've had over the last week. Particularly worrying and 2000 don't see that financial situation improving in the next year so it's really important that when we thinking about the experiences of women about what we can do to improve improve the conditions for these lowest paid women and we'd like employees to become real living wage employers help lift employees out of poverty and because again. Have you any idea what percentage of the actual worker workforce these low paid women represent. So 25 percent of all working women all ending below the real living wage which is just over 3000000 cusses a lot isn't it you know governments taking a legislative approach to this local government has taken a legislative approach to some extent is a legislative approach working so there's no doubt having good laws and not the front filters and the quality the right to equal pay for work of equal value the new requirement employers have to publish. Then to pick up the same career the 250 people are really important that also importantly we need to be able to enforce those rights so the current system for bringing a claim if you do find you not being paid as much as as a male colleague mean that women can wait decades in order to get justice that is much more likely that they'll settle along the way than go through that really arduous process we need to streamline that process we create climate has not yet. And I suppose we're not all as high profile as Carrie grace in the b.b.c. Today but one. You know most people go through this in on an imitative and also I think it's important sometimes that the women like Harry Gracie have spoken out but the onus shouldn't be on individual women to challenge this is not the responsibility of women to fight for fat pay the juicy employers to pay fairly and what we need to systems that enable everyone to get the information that they need to make employees responsible for meeting their obligations and we need more transparency on pay and are you a foster society worried about direction. Well for that society is part of a coalition called face her future and our campaign is to utilize the moment affects it both to make sure that we don't robot any of the really important hard won rights that we that we've got often 3 year old Polish support here but that we use that as an opportunity to carry on leading the way on women's rights. That was cool rails been debated in the laws at the moment and is really important protections thing discussed around making sure that we things like the working time directive or protections for pregnant women in the workplace a lot of those a lot of those protections come from all backed up by. By Europe and it's really important that we keep those 3 the baby out with the bathwater through the parts that process. Jim I'm all Haski from a fossil. I was saying about women getting the vote in 1918 parliament passed the parliament qualification of women act in which women over the age of 30 who were householders or the wives of householders or occupiers or property with an annual rent of 5 pounds and graduates of British universities lot of conditions 8400000 women actually manage to vote according to Wikipedia or at least again the right well let's pass on no to India where a leading member of the cabinet of Prime Minister Modi has actually withdrawn from the government terms but tell me more this is one of the close allies of the b j p this is Chunder Baba 90 who's been with the party for a long time I mean this is not just an alliance you had with Mr Modi he's been you know linked to the b j p for quite a while and he's the chief minister of under Pradesh and basically what he has been pushing for ever since he entered the alliance he has 2 ministers that in the central cabinet he wanted special status for under Pradesh and I ringette Lee India's Finance Minister basically said earlier today that that wasn't going to be possible and so Mr Nigh did basically decided well enough is enough he said he'd made 29 trips to Delhi to speak to the prime minister and also to the finance minister and if he was going to get what he wanted then he's going to leave the government and he's taking his ministers with him so a blow in some senses I think because you know the South is an area where Mr Modi's government has traditionally not done that well so losing a big rally in that part of India will be a blow to him and obviously a loss of face as well but I think what we're also seeing is the beginning of a lot of political maneuvering that's going to take. Place throughout the course of this year this deal many analysts who believe that Mr Modi may well call an election at the end of this year even if he does doesn't he'll face one at the beginning of next year so the beginning I think of what's going to be a very interesting political year in India with many politicians looking to shift alliances as they try and boost their own importance in India. But Mr Modi's own party is looking actually quite strong at the moment to. I think they are mean in spite of all the sort of predictions of the economic chaos that is followed to monetise ation and and the new tax system of g.s.t. Which we have talked about endlessly when it comes to elections his party still does very well and you know the recent need that we've had elections in the northeast of India and the area where really the b j p never really was a player before and they've done well there again so they slowly beginning to expand across a new member this was a party of the north and the West even with the loss of the l.a. In the south it's becoming stronger there and certainly becoming a much bigger force in the east of the country so now you know you could say that Mr Modi has transformed it into a into a national party and really when you look still at the Congress party which seems to be struggling as we move towards those elections one has to say that even if all the other regional parties unite against Mr Modi you know it does look at this particular point in time that his party looks set to win another election but of course with Indian politics things can change very very quickly so we'll have to see how things continue to move in the course of the but yeah certainly whatever your criticisms of the Indian prime minister his ability to turn his party into a national party is something that you have to give him some admiration for. Are on the whole. Limited to India women are earning less than men. Shoes just the discrepancy in India. 20 percent according to figures that have come out today now that's a lot. But this some will point to the fact that last year it was 25 percent so there seems to be some of the gap that takes place but I think this is a much bigger issue because I think what is even what is even more concerning was that's concerning enough is if you look at the recent figures that came from the Economic Survey of India we're seeing a drastic reduction in the number of women in the workplace now you know you would expect with the Indian economy continuing to grow and develop and also as India becomes less conservative in some of its attitudes towards women working that that will change but I mean if you look over the last 10 or 15 years we're talking about a decline of the number of women in the workplace you know 7 to 8 percent which is which is a huge number I've been talking to Jugnu re she runs a successful business in Kolkata asking her why she thinks that's the case a lot to do with the men not being so comfortable of having woman around it's mostly to do with that from the mindset main show monistic mindset is what initially faces but those attitudes I reflected often of attitudes that existed definitely because all these men who are out there they come from a set up where their mothers have never worked or their vibes don't work well this sisters have never been through education they are just meant to be at home raising children or doing the household cause So yeah for them it is very difficult to take a female boss for instance to give them or does. Rahul But last year the discrepancy between men and women salaries was 25 percent this year 20 so that would suggest things are changing quite. I think the problem is there's a paradoxes taking place as you rightly point out that you know a 5 percent closure of that gap is definitely significant even though it needs to be closed a lot more on the other hand these other figures that the coming out showing that less women are working shows you there's a much bigger problem and I think the honest answer is you know we've been discussing me so much since that horrific case that took place in Delhi all those years ago that the progress of change is not quick enough. And the scale of the problem is huge remember still many families in India would prefer to have a boy rather than the girl so maybe the expectation of change sometimes is too much I mean out on the streets of Calcutta asking women their you know what do they make of the current situation. Generally the mindset of the middle class men I thought it was changing apparently you know the women are meant for the house that role is still very prominent So it is definitely at improving I think our guys also getting more educated and they also make more liberal I think I don't think so that it is the scenario it's as such you go towards the better days they get but in India the thing is husbands don't need their wives for. That person was just pretty convinced wasn't she that still the rule between you know husband and wife ISP is traditional to say the very least Yeah I mean I look at things have changed I think from one generation to the next I think the difficulty when you're dealing with a country you know like India with almost 1300000000 people it's a huge difference is according to class according to this rule Real So whilst we see yond definitely seeing progress in some sections of society in many others you know the lot of the woman remains as it was 5060 years ago so. I think the honest answer is yes some sections of Indian society is changing the problem is there's so many people that actually that pro process of change your pace of change is much slower than one would hope. So talk about cricket and the. Strange system of Indian cricket of giving people what they call central contracts which presumably go to the star players as a right it is it is a bit like the English is them really so you know you have different grades within then sadly you know any cricket news tends to be pretty high up in the headlines so you know what the papers about to roll out in India believe me there's going to be a lot of discussion about 2 issues let's start with the 1st one mommy shammy his want to be India's star fast bowlers one of the key figures in their recent victory in the final test in South Africa not his name was not in the central contracts which came as a surprise to everyone now the reason for that is is that his wife has filed a case of domestic violence against him and also accused him and of having numerous offensive I think a lot of people found this quite a strange decision by the Indian cricket board to actually decide that they weren't going to pick a player because you know he has in the middle of what's been quite a an open fight with his wife on various social media outlets in India so that's a surprise there about maybe the board getting involved in somebodies domestic life I think they you on the other hand would say that a case could be filed with the police and if that is the case then would they want to be picking somebody using fault in those sort of allegations through the Indian cricket cricket team but it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Mohammed Shami and whether the board you know relent is India get closer to the tour of England which of course will is the next big series coming up the Indian team in the summer of this year and why shouldn't he be happy. Well because you have different grades and you know am I Stoney is one of the greats in the history of Indian cricket and he's not in the top bracket he's basically being kicked down from a plus to to a No I'm sure that he is good enough for most people but when you are m.s. Dhoni I think if you raised eyebrows that after all the service to Indian cricket yes he doesn't play the Test matches he's only playing the one day format of the game but you know to sort of take him down from the top level up there with the Kohli's and the robot Sharma's and the bombers and the other big stars of Indian cricket at the moment I think that did come as a little bit of a surprise and I think a lot of people are saying look you know with the amount of money that the Indian cricket board. Really did you need to demote him to that particular extent he's probably going to play for another one year maybe the World Cup in England next year could be a swan song you know keep him at the top level he is one of the greatest players that India has ever seen but let's be perfectly honest about it and Estonia got so much money that he doesn't really need the money that the Indian Cricket Board give him. Objects of color the arrival time than. That brings us to our past 4. Digits along the line smartphones and tablets this is b.b.c. 5 Live. News comes from Kevin McGrath across North Yorkshire has left 2 teenagers dead and 7 people including 2 children in hospital happened around 925 last night in the a 61 a 3rd asked 3 vehicles were involved police a nerve agent was used to trying murder a former Russian double agent and his daughter so again nearly a scrape owl were found unconscious in Salzburg on Sunday they remain critically ill while a police officer who was 1st at the scenes now on a serious condition 3 members of the same family have been seriously injured after being stabbed in Vienna is not yet known if the incidents linked to a 2nd knife attack in the Austrian capital last night and the Home Office assess and new proposals to tackle domestic abuse it recognises the different kind suffered including psychological physical sexual emotional and economic abuse the deceased for its own 5 lives a Champions League dream that turned into a nightmare for Tottenham Hotspur teacher after the challenge shot at the park Plaza 7 was the back of the earth which caught the bug effect he still holds headed across the park tortured by the record of the churchyard box on each $11.00 during the night he cried pleasure to the little people others are sorry to each one of my colleagues was at times because the people I was I just aren't charging to try their reply to close to God God almost did the crime can't get out of I this child is trying to rise and then you're trying to say save us and that's how it's finished she won you Ventus going through to the quarterfinals for 3 on aggregate stuff to shocking Spurs but summary to punch a teen who insists it hasn't dampened their ambition and of the discipline to the force but I know he's still. I am a dreamer of course disappointed today because when you compete in this competition which I believe with this type of club you win oh you can lose we lose but in the way that we lose I am happy I am very proud of my players munches this city also but that place in the last 8 something beating Basel 52 over 2 legs they lost the 2nd leg to won a 1st home defeat since 2016th the Pep Guardiola side happy to qualify on the 2nd time in this club so we have anyone in that position so we're so happy for that and even with the 1st caucus or good the 2nd sort of flow from the to attack before the play in the 2nd house really really. Killed Monaco up to 15 the Scottish Premiership after beating St Johnston to Nel wolves of restored a 6 point lead at the top of the Championship after a 3 no win over Leeds and after that much the rules manager a new no s. Prieto Santo responded to Tweets from the Leeds owner Andrea Rudra Zani about a lack of fairness in the Division I don't care I say once again I say I don't care what we saw on the pitch is a group of very hard working people that only focus on the game to go beyond that doesn't affect this Team Sky said they're happy to cooperate with any investigation by the u.c.i. Off to strongly denying allegations in a parliamentary report that the team and so broadly Wigan's use drugs to enhance performance rather than for medical needs the president of World cycling's governing body a party on has called for an inquiry of course I want them to investigate and see if there is some violation of and to duping routes it seems not to be the case and it's mentioned in the report because they had at the time. And I grim and I would say from from institution but now we have the evidence seems to be organized Dylan Hartley is still a doubt to lead England in that crucial 6 nations man. With that I got a cough injury and head coach Eddie Jones will make a final decision on his fitness before naming his team and later this morning and I think of them controversial plans to extend rugby union's Premiership season have been shelved by players union chief Damian Hopley who says the dead in the water this is b.b.c. 5 live on digital on my smartphone and south of that good morning it's a cold start to Thursday across much of the u.k. To watch out for icy parties on untreated surfaces across much of Scotland and Northern Ireland to begin with not only has the though we got an area of wet weather that's been pushing in across parts of England a while so have a nice enough to the bring a bit of snow in places the snow risk is greater to the high ground of Wales Midlands into northern England but in heavier past it's a lower level study surprise it was a bit of sleet the snow falling out there and we could see centimeter all to even some low levels in some spots preflight covering city take it easy heading out 1st thing this morning this weather system is going to push the way eastward stone it does braving picture for a little while so through the days we see increasing amounts of sunshine just for the 2 for the showers when shown hills to fall behind quite windy with this weather system or we might take gusty winds across East Anglia and southeast England for much of that I just easing a bit later on as we look at a picture of Scotland and Northern Ireland frosty icy starting places will be a few showers to come today particularly through western more especially north western parts of Scotland the northern and western although many places are going to remain dry and get to see some pleasant spells of sunshine temperatures today for Scotland around 4 to 7 Celsius for the overall and northern England 6 to 8 degrees for the rest of England for whilst highs around 7 to 10 Celsius is the chilly of feeling day particularly in the brisk winds across southern parts of the u.k. Overnight tonight many places will be trying to be a frost setting in quite widely still some wintry showers around getting a bit of snow across parts of Scotland going into Friday but a dry weather on Friday but then from the south place on Friday we start to see. Some complex of rain spreading it's a softening of the South Wales uplift North lots of the weekend particularly on Saturday the 1st time mild temperatures mixed with pot luck with the 6 Nations unexpected results feel. a place like the costs to listen to. The. Police say a nerve agent who was used to try to murder a farmer a Russian double agent understood Oscar Sarah gay and Yulia Scotty Powell are still critically ill have a new found unconscious in Salzburg on Sunday so also matters that the police officer who was 1st on the scene is now in a serious condition Shashank Joshi is a specialist in international relations at the defense and security think tank Rusi I put it to show that actually getting hold of nerve agent has I hope very difficult yes it's very difficult I'm not a chemical weapons expert but I do know to be highly controlled substances some of them are subject to international treaty to conventions like the Chemical Weapons Convention of course we've all had a lot about the use of chemical weapons but we have federal seen. That had we not so serious because of the nature of these substances but how strict controls on them are. And it's not just the production being very difficult it's also the handling the storage the handling the dissemination the delivery of these substances to an individual to actually talk at the right dose without also causing enormous collateral damage or injuring yourself all of that means that I think it would almost certainly take state resources to be able to do something like this all the non-state groups who have used nerve agent in the past and I think there's only really want to have small one or 2 they've done so in much more indiscriminate ways and I think that what this suggests really is we're looking almost certainly at a state as a state where we know for example that shows Koreans now say it was definitely v.x. Gas that killed Kim Jong un just brother so the North Koreans could go Vieques. Any other suspects in the frame Well I think in this context of the individual being a foreign intelligence officer the military intelligence agency in the context of past Russian operations on British soil and elsewhere including those targeting former intelligence offices and given the long history of Russian intelligence services beginning with the k.g.b. And moving on to Malton successes the f.s.b. In the s.c.r. And others I think you know this really fits with Russia and Russia alone I can think of almost no other state that would or indeed entity that would have both the capability and the interest in this group well and I think I'd be incredibly surprised if for example if a country like North Korea had any remote interest in a former agent long past his prime lacking any sense of current military secrets and living in a small English village I think really we are looking at Russia. Well you just said it all because I was about to venture off the reservation and say he couldn't still be active pretty well I think we have to be open minded about what would active means the report into the death of Alexander Litvinenko who was poisoned by Russian agents told me years ago did note that one of the motivations for his murder not may not have been not only his longstanding tensions and gripes with the Russian state and his rivalry and his his his his calling out of corruption but also the fact that they learned he was working with m I 6 possibly on an ongoing basis now we have to be clear what that means many of these defectors or individuals who are now living in asylum or sanctuary in the u.k. Or us they will do in for work with the intelligence agencies such as lecturing the training programs they might lecture about the nature of the g.r.u. The military intelligence agency which he worked they might lecture about the culture of Russian intelligence so we wouldn't really call that operational were on going work but that they have informal connections of course they do these are people transplanted from their home countries the only people they really know in some cases all the agencies like an I 6 the book The Most however there is another type of work which is involvement in operations involvement in providing information recruiting others perhaps giving advice on who to contact in Russia and you know we have no evidence that this individual was working with either the British intelligence agencies all those were private firms in doing that kind of work but if he was then I would say that is also a risk factor in this case and that would again point to another motivation. Russia's officially I agree with the British media for beginning this op and they say of course it's nothing but nonsense all this talk but suppose that the target was him but also a lot of other people suppose he was a warning that it's possible. It's conjecture of course but it is possible you know that the difficulty in this case is that we can understand why someone like living in Co who fled under a cloud who was effectively a fugitive they have been targeted but this individual Colonel script always what he left with the permission of the Russians he was pardoned before he left and therefore we are left with sort of 2 hypotheses one is as we've just explored perhaps he was engaged in ongoing work of some sort that alienated and Moscow or the 2nd possibility is that he was simply a vulnerable and convenient target in order to send a message to others who may be working against Russian interest I know that the former CIA intelligence officer John Saif it was a Russia expert noted yesterday that this was potentially a message to Christopher steel the 4 and I 6 officer who was responsible for compiling the dossier against Donald Trump and its involvement with Russia I mean a speculative I think it's unlikely. And I think there are other ways Russia could send messages particularly given the reputational damage of killing someone who you gave up in a swap and the difficulty that that will now of course that any further such exchanges that the Russian state might wish to undertake in the future but it is of course a possibility but if you do that speculation on how the priest or steals Russian sources are already being compromised already realized the gig is up because of what's happened to him and his outing in the press yes but of course it's not easy to work out his sources he's a very he was a very proficient intelligence officer he he was very experienced he didn't give up in a way that is a. His sources his networks to those who he said today to the report now we have had some reports of some arrests by the Russian agencies for example those who worked on cyber issues the Russians in Russia itself and so clearly they may have inferred indirectly from the evidence available as to who may have helped Christopher Steele but of course other individuals may be on the and this may be a way of saying we may don't know who you are now but be warned you and any people like you in the future who work against our interests will meet with very sticky and theatrical ends and we will do this with impunity but of course you know that is just one possibility I think right now. The immediate task will be to understand what he perceives the forty's what was going to sweep all doing in the weeks the months before he was targeted Who was he talking to who was involved with the travel anyway his his daughter came back from Russia to visit him what was her role and to establish did he get involved in anything that might have elevated his profile in court problems or is it something else entirely but you should whoever did this did though she was impunity I mean we recognize a huge headache for Special Branch and the anti-terrorist squad but because any charge can they actually Newell somebody for doing this will they nailed some they nail someone indeed they nailed 2 people in the case of the murder of Alexander Litvinenko a former including a former k.g.b. Officer who then later became a lawmaker in Russia so I think. The ability of Multan investigation is to use all sorts analysis to use secret information open information forensics. C.c.t.v. Footage travel records phone records and piece it together and to identifying individuals who may have delivered this you know they can they can look up everyone who was using a phone in the vicinity of souls READY bre in a certain period in certain ways to certain numbers. For the period of the week beforehand and eventually the noose can close in on people who were involved it happened with Litvinenko we've seen it happen in America with Robert Muller The special counsel in the way he has indicted specific Russians including those working in the Russian state in his massive indictment of the Department of Justice in the last 2 weeks so actually I think the British authorities will be able to do this but it may well take them many many months and of course the difficulty is you always have to strike a balance between revealing secret information to get an indictment for legal purposes and criminal purposes and keeping that information secret in order to avoid giving up the sources again between the 1st place and the intelligence agencies their focus will not be on pointing fingers or 'd indicting suspects but it will really be on collecting and hoarding information for their own purposes and tweaking it is very valuable. And finally in terms of the sort of vigorous response that the foreign secretary hinted at. When do you do it do you wait until someone is actually in the frame for this or do you just go out and say well we're not going to let Archie operate in Britain anymore as somebody suggested to us yesterday No I think they've got to wait they've got to wait for a little They don't have a way for individuals or for culpability that Putin Diddy's will push the button indeed we never had that certainty in the case of let me think that we only had a probability but I do think they have to wait for the agencies to say this was a nerve agent such as the expert sample this was a particular strain of it it was probably from the Russian the bark tree in this part of Russia here is some corroborating evidence showing for example the movement of scientists in the movement of cargo from that facility in Iraq ports from inside is we say 90 percent confidence it was a Russian state and at that level of high confidence which I think could well come quite I think the British government will feel confident and take whatever steps it deems necessary but as to what steps it takes that's a political call and it depends on how much stomach they have the stomach for retaliation stomach for a long drawn out deterioration in relations with Russia and how much support they anticipate from allies and friends Shashank Joshi from Russi Well let's take this on was Professor Alexei more of us who is a leading expert on Russian security and defense cuts and University in Western Australia Hello Professor Moravec of pleasure to be with you thanks good to have you with us and I don't know how much of that last interview you had but what are your thoughts on why surrogate ski pole was actually targeted. Well they can be a couple of probability this one is that on me and obviously the Russians if if if that would be. And the duration initiated by Russian security services have a 0 tolerance towards what they would describe as straight as a defective so and even pushing back and 2010 when he met the 10 operatives that were collected by their vi and then exchange for the 4 Russian nationals who were working for the British intelligence effectively said. Those who betrayed the country create a sort of or a defector never end up well. So that it may be part of this is 0 tolerance approach if you if you betray us if you charge we hide high treason if you if you work for the enemy will hunt you down and when you to realize you are here maybe you can I just interrupt you one question that yes they meet Mr scrape before he was handed over. No no no he didn't mean he didn't meet any any any of the defectors he met those who the Russians managed to get out of the United States Russian operatives who were working on United States on the collar. And were traded in in exchange for Russian nationals who were working for Western intelligence in Russia. But but. But scribble where they actually pardon before and before the exchange by then Russian President Dmitry Medvedev he did about 5 or 6 years in Russian jail he collaborated with with investigation he acknowledged that he was workin for him for the British intelligence so technically he was part of them whether but obviously he continued to to to be in possession of sensitive information and whether he. Began sharing more with with British counterparts and then the Russian who decided to act because the strange thing is that he was ill even in the u.k. Since at least 2011 and only now if they were the same state sanctioned decision on their knowledge it was decided to neutralize him so the question is why now and I said I have a Myrick question yeah my question to also be why did they decide to do so publicly I mean why did they leave and suffering on a park bench you know for everyone to see. Well if it to be a if it was supposed to deliver a message of this is what will happen to anyone who will betray them the motherland then obviously some some some degree of publicity would would require but it's very much depends on how professional. They execute the so that duration of war certainly the fact that they used fairly sophisticated nerve agent demonstrates that it is likely to be Minute Fiction specifically for the purpose of a career that the regime rather than any random sums to know that can inflict physical harm. I mean can do congenial with the with Russia line if we were to issue me that it was an action initiated by Russian security services Well Dan It kind of fits all on the war and that President Putin announced was to deliver in his annual address to the Russian Federal Assembly last week when he said. In the context of speaking about Russian strategic nuclear deterrent capability is of great skill that you have failed to listen as in the past knowledge the time for you to start listening to us because. Again it's peculation at this point but if it was Russian sanctions that the regime while it's supposed to demonstrate a Their capacity to effectively reach out and carried out in a duration on on on British to. And obviously that would put a kind of British secret intelligence and law enforcement community to shame because the Russians really effectively were able to successfully execute on a duration on on on they had to but also demonstrating the in Canton the seriousness that the Russians not particular the strategic and security agendas. Put any credibility in the story that there have been 14 unexplained Marson in the u.k. . Which could be laid the feet of Russian operatives. Well I would I would create this this way that with a degree of skepticism there were a number of Russian defectors who managed to get across across the border and seek refuge in countries for which they will work and some of them. And I'm heavy in their lives send it in a mysterious and hard to explain circumstances but it's not it's not an established trend I think it's small Where. I cation a leopard to nature there was certainly a couple of high profile deaths that occurred in the u.k. One is obviously leading into cases which it is often been compared to this to this particular case the other one was the death of one of Russia's oligarchs who was so great huge in the u.k. Brisbane result ski was found in one of his mentions that hand and and the and the cause of the still remains a bit of a curiosity on the fact that he had a very. Problematic relationship with Russian law and certainly would lead him or put in the apparently he wrote a letter to put in just days before he was found dead in his in the bathroom of his of his mansion apparently is saying asking for forgiveness on i OS can put in a way if you would be allowed to be returned but. Certainly when not when all is file line the stand Lou you don't do you we're not talking about. Over a dozen. Rush on the network you know that I think killed the war or found that in the in the u.k. Or anywhere or or any other places I think anomaly significantly lower us Professor Mary have thank you very much. Well I think all a sad day by the rockers Kasabian and musicians everywhere today and Emmy announced its to print its final edition on Friday blamed rising production costs in a tough advertising market that started publishing in 1952 Sara Walters is known to tame a journalist how she felt when she had that and I mean it was closing its print run I guess I felt like it was inevitable but I don't think it's bad to level level blame at the enemy for not managing to stay in print I mean this isn't this is an industry issue that I mean perhaps there are things that the enemy could have done differently in recent years but I think most print media houses is trying to address those changes in the way we can she information by going online by giving things out free. But I think there is a certain expectation about what anime stands for and I think probably those changes have made it might compromise about not content but really the people that look the enemy just went not interested in about what kind of compromises mean same sort of charges are leveled a Rolling Stone you know the Rolling Stone didn't really love it its readership as much as that love the money. Well I think it was always certainly for me I mean I I grew up with the enemy and Melody Maker and sounds and all of those kind of old old fashioned print newspaper style weekly music magazines you know and I think it was always a feeling that the people who were running families were very much light you that they were they were music from you know they were having a bowl they were in the job they were doing but they're also blessed with a sort of studious low for the music an appreciation of the on itself and then to could create it without really relying on personal taste or allegiance to prosecute or label old and I think more than anything you feel. They were the drivers of the content not the consumers themselves but much like a lot of media. That content is often driven down by a kind of. Petty or a fleeting interest in the ocean or of your job quite be in all that has as the the extreme of of that particular. Issue Yeah but I don't know that I don't know that they've gone down the avenue but certainly there is a tendency to think a lot of the stuff you see kind of criminal confidential media published by the enemy is not really the kind of. It's not really the sort of indebt old studious journalism that you would have expected from was essentially a specialist magazine. Schieffer for me going back to the late sixty's and seventy's enemy sort of came in and it swept aside a lot of smaller papers you know I think about Mary b. And things like that which had a definite angle masterbate was really all about you know Brian Epstein stable and and people coming out of Liverpool Manchester but for enemy it was much more Southern and did it did an army have a kind of corporate view of things you know were writers expected to toe any particular line. I don't think as a reader you felt like I think maybe I came to the enemy after it been through a bit of a transitional period I mean you know I was probably starting to read in the early ninety's and. Very late eighty's if I was picking up an older sister's copy but you know I think by then they'd because a journalist let pulmo leave the country those ranks it kind of become its focus had been become less so than and had really expanded to the north but also probably I was stunned a time when the North was a very exciting period in music so and so I guess I didn't I didn't feel like I was being delivered a particular agenda from the capital where this this magazine was based at Dixville like and and more importantly I felt like as a side the journalist very much like they were like you they were just music it's who it happened to talk he answered this great job you know Ryan my passion I love America. Oh well. Well.