As it. Was not a fan of hers is there I mean he did not exactly say blow it I'm sure she's a very fine woman I just don't know much about her and the authorities in Berlin have banned local performers from wearing u.s. Army uniforms at Checkpoint Charlie they say actors at the iconic cold war crossing point between East and West Germany exploits tourists where they're demanding money for photographs of the sport now and will go to New Zealand to find out England are getting on a response in the 3rd t 20 match out a mile for is that chasing 181 England are 32 for one in the 4th over some bold for a quick far 18 trying to romp take now now we can get the rest of the sport with Katie Smith West Bromwich Albion a 2 points clear at the top of the championship off to easing past city to nil away I mean Stoke stay bottom of the table in their 1st game since boss Nathan Jones was fired caretaker manager Roy de Lapp says the loss has put a spotlight on how serious problems are at the club Meanwhile press will then say that dropping their formal complaint against Stoke it was for an alleged illegal approach for them manager Alex Neil Everton have revealed surgery to repair his fractured ankle has gone extremely well and he's expected to make a full recovery the midfielder suffered the injury during Sunday's game with Tottenham was confirmed Spurs have appealed against subhumans red card his tackle is that unsuccessful in the appeal some will miss Premier League matches against Sheffield United West Ham and Bournemouth Paul Hackett bottom has been sacked as has been his head coach Hibs are currently 10th in the Scottish Premiership with just 9 points and it's new this Champion of Champions event it's a battle back to be sure Murphy 65 and the place in the semifinals this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. Sound small speaker. The weather shows for much of the country today eastern areas of the u.k. Will see the heaviest of the downpours turning rather chilly in the north temperatures across the country around 6 to allow. The greats. On b.b.c. Sounds Hello everyone it's Alison John here and we are very excited to introduce a new podcast and it's called How do you cope with Alison John we're going to be talking to range of guests about the challenges. And setbacks that they might face in their own lives while asking the question how do you cool for you hear about grief being like. And you just keep finding little bits you never quite get rid of it completely Eventually I went to see a psychologist and he said Ron signing off for 3 months you having the mental health for coming on the heart attack how do you cope with Allison Jones on p.c. Since the 1st phone use and the best law school this is b.b.c. 5 live up all night with Raj Shah but. If necessity is the mother of invention who writes Vince Houghton in the opening pages of his new book desperation is the drunk uncle the title and legend on the book's front cover with its picture of a dying world rushing nuclear bomb heading for the surface of our arse nearest neighbor really says it all nuking the moon and other intelligence schemes and military plots best left on the drawing board so let's dive into the 1st good idea not which has several Do involved some extreme cruelty to animals Acoustic Kitty I asked Star to Houghton who is instantly curator of Washington's International Spy Museum how the boffins at the CIA planned to make a listening device out of a domestic cat you mention the program's name Acoustic Kitty and suddenly that is the actual real code name. So someone at CIA had a sense of humor but this is a nice idea that made some sense at the time there was a CIA officer in Istanbul Turkey who noticed if you've been a symbol there stray cats everywhere he noticed that a lot of the stray cats would be able to walk in and out of the Soviet embassy without anyone even noticing sometimes right in the door. Sometimes I'd go to the courtyard and jump up right on the laps of Soviet officers or spies and no one would pay him any attention somebody said man would be great if we could get a covert listen device on one of those cats because then we would have the keys do everything the CIA decide to take a step further and put a covert listening device inside one of those cats and that's work used to Kitty come from this surgically implanted a listening device into the ear canal of a cat powered up by a power pack they implanted into its. Abdomen and the tail was used as an antenna to send the information once they acquired it and this was done successfully actually the basics of creating this Franken Kitty were done successfully until they ran into the problem that we probably all could see coming is that you actually have to train your cat in order for it to be an effect of over a listening device. And I add that's the trouble they ran into. So how did it go or they took this quite far didn't they well there's 2 versions of the story there's the boring version which they realize they'd wasted their money and they stopped it so we're going to ignore that version that's really boring the more exciting one is that they tested the cat they trained it and actually they were able to use electronic brain stimulation that they'd been working on around the same time to get around the cat's national instinct to get hungry or to look at cell for a wander off and they actually were able to train this cat and before they wanted to put it into action in Moscow or a stern warning or else they knew the trick then test it and that would happen here in Washington d.c. Where they brought it to just a normal Park where 2 people were sitting on a bench and put it down on the street and hit their buttons on the cat to their surprise made a beeline straight for the 2 people sitting on the bench and the CIA techs were pretty happy about this right they had they'd accomplish the impossible and they were you know high 5 each other they're celebrating they're talking about the raises in the vacations they're going on they're doing everything but paying attention to traffic and when acoustically got halfway across the street. Or poor feline hero got run over by a taxi. And so. You know if you love cats like I do it's only a story I can laugh at was I've now told it so many times it was horrific the 1st couple times I read about it but the programme was cancelled and for all of us resents. That was the one test too far I think for the CIA Well while we're at it could you tell us about the cat bomb. C s a this was an idea of using Well there's 2 this is a really weird idea that the you know you think about what you know about cats it's that cats are kind of there's 2 things that you know of cats always land on their feet and cats hate water and so there was an early idea that never really got all that far it's the to use cats as a bomb this is when you drop a cat of a plane with a explosive device attached to it let's say over a German battleship in World War 2 and the cat would instinctively do everything it could to guide it self toward the battleship it would be more accurate than any World War 2 era bomb because the cat would do whatever it could to avoid a landing in the water and the cat would land on the battleship in maybe somehow survive who knows but didn't matter because that would be dead a 2nd later when the bomb went off. Yeah it so this was not a plan that got very far. There are so many really important people involved in these things because sooner or later somebody has to sign off on a plan and and of course one of the big characters in this is Wild Bill Donovan who runs the u.s.s. Which is a previous s of the CIA and he apparently told this man that he would be his Moriarty Shylock homes to rival who was the man who was going to be Wild Bill's Moriarty So there's a chemist's name Stanley level and level was somebody who Donovan didn't want him to be an arch villain he wanted him to be an evil genius he wanted to come up with . All the crazy concoctions that normally you'd stop and say no this is going too far I'm not going to do this Donovan wanted him to eliminate that phrase from his own Cavaleri and say there's no such thing as too far I'm going to come up with the most underhanded dirty tricks I possibly can to help us win the war against you know you know when you're fighting Hitler and you're fighting the Japanese You don't say nothing is off the table and so some of these plans went pretty well actually level and his team much in the same way that people at Charles Frazier Smith at mit 9 during World War 2 were able to to concoct some extraordinary technology that allowed the O.S.'s to do some very good things during the war but for every good idea there were dozens of bad ones and my favorite is is the 2nd chapter of the book Operation precious where the United States actually almost became the 1st and only country in the 2nd World War to use biological weapons in combat and. In a very strange way how did it happen so the concept was how do we hit the Germans with a biological attack without them knowing because of course if if the Germans knew that we had hit them with a biological attack they would respond with either chemical weapons or biological attack or their own so could we do this in a very covert way without them thinking that they had been hit so the idea was let's get all the Germans in North Africa sick and get him so sick they really can't fight but not kill everybody was he killed everybody would be pretty obvious that they'd been hit hard with a biological attack and so when Montgomery and Patton were fighting the Germans Rommel and everyone else the idea was let's just stick in the mall in the that concept that was come up with was let's develop a toxin. That would make them wish they were dead but it wouldn't kill them outright in the way we could deliver this was through African flies and African flies are known as some of the most horrendous flies in the world that they go after food they go after membranes they land in your eyes in your nose and everywhere else and so if you can use African flies as a vector to get our virus to the Germans this would work perfectly So how do you get it to the African flies will that the o. S. That would be attractive to the African fly is so the O.S.'s said All right well we could just use normal manure because you know flies Aminu or or we could genetically engineer our own and that's what they did so they created a synthetic goat manure that was so attractive to the African fly that it was actually wake them up out of hibernation and within this goat manure they mixed in this chemical this biological weapon and the idea made a ton of sense except that the only way to actually introduce this in North Africa was to airdrop it in North Africa you couldn't have people walking in with like barrels of synthetic Goldman what. Right the problem though was that most of the Spanish Moroccan houses where this was going to be introduced were flat roofed. So if you airdropped it about half of your payload would end up on the roofs of these houses and unless you're genetically engineering flying goats there'd be no way to explain how your goat manure got on top of the roofs of all these Spanish Moroccan houses and someone had someone mention that the Stanley level level said Well at that point it won't really matter anyway the Germans are too sick to care and so the plan was going to go through and actually the only reason it was cancelled was that Hitler was having real problems at Stalingrad dealing with the Soviets and the reinforcements that were going to pour into Africa to fight both Patton and Montgomery were instead redirected to Stalin Gratz of the plan never had to happen but it was almost a top 8 situation where the allies or the United States became the 1st and only country to use biological weapons in World War 2. Well look we would we want to talk about big steaming cruelty to animals much more but since you've told us about the cat can you tell us about the bat ball Yeah this is a planet that might have actually worked of all the plans in the book this might be the one that stood the greatest chance of success and the idea behind this is again something we all learned in when we were 5 years old or 6 years old is that bats like warm dry dark places and if you throw a bat out in the middle the afternoon they're going to do everything they possibly can to find a warm dry and dark place like attic or even meant or a nuke and cranny inside of a house now that idea combined with something else that we knew certainly in the 1940 s. Is that most Japanese buildings were made of wood in paper so if you could combine a bat with an incendiary device like napalm which actually was developed by a man who worked on this program and he dropped said Batts over Japan they would do everything they could to find a warm dry and dark place and that would mean the nooks and crannies in attics and eve of these wooden and paper houses and so when incinerated ice went off you can see what goes next you can burn Japan to the ground without nuclear weapons without invasion without really using any humans in the carpet bombing in fact is actually without carpet bombing and actually the man who devised this plan told his death and he died decades after the 2nd World War ended swore that this would have been a more humane way to end the war because the Japanese people could have gotten out of the way not like they go obviously couldn't in Hiroshima Nagasaki they couldn't win a carpet bombing of Tokyo now you could argue this one where the other but it was an idea that made a ton of sense at the time and it's actually tested and it was successfully tested . And this is one of the things that was going to be geared up in 1905 and they asked for a lot of money because you going to need some money to do this and the chief of naval operations at the time said Why would I give you money for this we've already spent $2000000000.94 s. Money on a program and New Mexico that were about to use them in the war and so really the bat bomb program didn't didn't not it wasn't canceled it was a bad idea was actually canceled because the atomic bombs and of the war before I got a chance to work. And and yet there were let's say physical problems with the bats themselves when which frustrates at the tests that they actually made well there are some growing pains certainly a hole in the way the 1st time they run up all these bats and then the put them in hibernation in order to transport them to the test center and they miscalculated how long it would take for the bats to wake up so that you don't hypnotize them although they feel they cool them down and they cool their bodies down it kind of puts them into a deep sleep and they put them all into a container they're going to drop out of a plane and the idea was they'd wake up and they'd fly out of the container and then do what they were supposed to do the problem was they never woke up and the container along with all the bats hit the ground at terminal velocity and I don't care if you're a bad person a cat whatever that's not going to go very well for you if you hit the ground at terminal velocity so the next test they solve this problem they actually accomplished they had a weight bats the problem was the bats woke up too early and they opened the truck that had all they thought were sleeping bats that already had incinerate devices attached to them and the bats all flew out in 40 different directions now half of them this is the good news half flew straight to the kind of mock up Japanese town they had built for the test and they buy their lives out here in Nevada right out than it has say that code right were basically where we were later on test a lot of atomic weapons during the Cold War So they flew out in the middle the Mojave Desert and went all around this Japanese city that we had built and burn it to the ground so proof of concept 100 percent the problem is the other half of the bat flew to a working Us Army Airfield with its hangars and towers and planes and then burned that to the ground so and the good news as you say there was so secret the commander of the airfield didn't even know about it and he had to watch his his whole base burning and he asked What's going on and he is that you're not cleared for this is like this is my are for. I'll. Take what you need I'm not cleared for this is like no you don't have the clearance to know what's going on as you just watch and you can even let the fire brigade in because the fire brigade wasn't cleared for the operation either so. The irony is there was a Marine general who was sitting there watching it just kind of laughing the whole time saying look I don't really care about this Army Airfield I care that this worked really really well and so they were ready to actually put this in the use when the atomic bombs stop that conversation. Let's talk about psychological operations and the League of lonely war women that was a letter. Well this is a brilliant idea and this is one I tend not to give too much credit to the O.S.'s in the European theater because it's clear the s.-o. We the British to the heavy lifting in the European theater now in the Asian the Asian theater the O.S.'s did a lot of work but there are very few things you can point to as by huge successes in the legal only war woman was such an extraordinary idea actually a woman at O.S.'s came up with this concept of airdropping pamphlets over German soldiers essentially saying that in German looking like it came from the German High Command saying that. The women back at home in Iran are in our if you cut out the heart at the bottom of the pamphlet and wear on your lapel you're basically guaranteed to get some comfort from these women back in the rear. And the problem that sounds great right you're like if you're a single guy you're like Ok I'm going to go back I'm guaranteed to get some sweet loving when I'm back in the rear the problem was the only women back in the rear of course were the wives mothers sisters daughters of the soldiers at the front so everyone's like you better not go back and you know sleep with my wife or my daughter or my you know mom and something else so in that it caused this consternation at one point I was like yes and then they realize who the women were back in the rear that were part of this league of only war women and they started fighting each other over it and so brilliant psychological operation which you know we call this black propaganda war it looks as though the information actually comes from someone else in this case it came from the allies but it looked like it was coming from the Germans themselves and so it was very easy for people to believe and that caused some real consternation you have a nice little digression about the choosing of code names and the way the British chose a code name something I've never understood until I read it and you can you tell us we had an early Cold War the British use a system called the rainbow codes in the rainbow codes were. Essentially a color and then and now on of some sort right so it's basically nothing really is supposed to be tied directly to the operation itself so colors were specific to types of things like one color could designate air defense weapons another color could designate nuclear weapons another color could designate aircraft design and then the actual noun that comes after it would be just something randomly chosen so in the case of the book the one I talk about is a a weapon system called Blue peacock in the blue in this case it's talking about a nuclear weapon in p. Caucasus random and it just so ironically happens that the the story itself involves birds just not peacocks and the blue Peacock was actually a nuclear landmine that was developed by the British using the same concept of the 1st British Tomic bombs so essentially this was using the same technology that went to the British Telecom The idea was that you would bury these in Eastern Europe or along the fold a gap you know between West in East Germany and if the Soviets started World War 3 they'd have some really rude surprises as they rolled across Europe dams and bridges in highways and byways could be exploded with nuclear weapons that were underground that I hadn't set off a trip wire during this time so that that is kind of the basics of blue peacock but of course the problem they run into is that early 1950 s. Electronics. Didn't get along very well with extreme cold weather so they you know think of vacuum tubes and early fifty's electronics extreme cold made them not want to work and if you've ever been in Eastern Europe in the winter we're talking extreme cold this is just beyond you know talking about negative water temperatures and wind chills down to where you don't want to be outside from one a couple minutes at a time the fear was that you'd have this wonderful nuclear landmine but the cold would make sure the electronics didn't work and the Soviet would just roll right over it not even know it was there so to find some way to warm up the electronics and they thought about different ideas they thought about things like fiberglass insulation I can't even say that without thing about Monty Python like fluffy pillows and comfy chairs. But that would be less ridiculous than the what they finally come up with and the truth is and this is something that no I'm not making this up actually the British government released this a couple of years ago they use live chickens to warm up the electronics of the blue Peacock And the idea was that if you threw a bunch of chicken feet inside the casing for this landmine there was enough room in there for a couple live chickens a walk around for about a week and the food would keep them alive and their body heat would actually keep the electronics from freezing and this interesting thing about why chickens will chickens actually can lose a lot more body heat than most other animals like you think about a human right if you lose 5 or 6 degrees a body heat if your body temperature drops 5 or 6 degrees you're close to death chickens can lose 2030 degrees of body heat into the outside area and still remain alive so they're the perfect animal if you're going to Houston him all the 1st animal to keep their nuclear landmines from freezing over but then after a week you do a clear line by it's going to freeze anyway isn't all that sweetens going to be dead you go back in and switch out your chickens and then you'd be able to keep it going the idea was that you would never deploy these unless it seemed as though war was going to kick off within a couple days and so your chicken should be able to last long enough to be completely annihilated by the nuclear blast. There were of course assassination schemes and you talk about assassination schemes there are 2 big targets in the book one was castor will come on to that but one was Adolf Hitler and an operation called Operation Foxley what was Operation Foxley operation Foxley was it was one of the most simple operations in the book actually and it kind of made a lot of sense the idea is let's get somebody close enough to Hitler with a high powered rifle and shoot him and which is the can really kind of into the system everything else in the book which are these really extravagant James Bond villain type things going on and they discovered that when he was kind of on vacation in the area where he kind of really felt confident that there was a time when he would walk every morning to kind of every morning he would take a walk to get breakfast and during that time there was a space in which he was in between security to where he left one guard tower hadn't quite reached the next group of guards and he could be potentially shot if you had somebody with a good enough aim in a high powered enough rifle and this is really straightforward Right the idea was let's get him when he's making this walk the reason I included the story is because it's such a wonderful case of why a program doesn't happen that it's just too good to leave out and this is not something that gets canceled because the war ends this is not something that gets cancelled as a new technology comes around this is something that gets canceled because the British High Command realized that Hitler was the gift that keeps on giving that Hiller was such a bad military strategist that the fear was if we killed him they might put somebody in charge and knew what the hell they were doing and that would put us in a position where the war be much harder to win as it was Hitler was bumbling and stumbling his way to loss after loss after loss and it was better to have history Hiller in power because he just was so bad at it and so the decision was made let's not kill this guy let's leave him there to bumble and stumble as a way to help us win this war. When it comes to Fidel Castro there's a number that you quote Even although we've you know we've all had about exploding cigar and and you know Poder and his hat and all like a good thing but there's a whole number that you attach to the number of schemes that the CIA considered against feeling against Fidel Castro can you remember what that number was according to feed ells bodyguard who was a party to protecting him from a lot of these schemes the CIA tried to this is just the CIA This is not the u.s. Government he applies the CIA tried to kill Fidel Castro 638 times and I think that number is a little high. But it doesn't mean that we didn't try to kill him a whole bunch right exploding cigars exploding seashells putting Thiam salts in his shoes that his beard would fall out trying to lace his radio show with l.s.d. So he kind of rants and craziness and they rise up and overthrow him all the plans including one that's very straightforward send a guy in with a rifle to shoot him and of course that one is way too straightforward that one doesn't happen either that one doesn't happen but interesting enough the guy who they sent after him then turns up again in pursuit of someone very close to Fidel Yeah also Felix Rodriguez who stole life lives down in Miami he's a story his story is extraordinary he was a pro the Bay of Pigs great team essentially these are guys that infiltrated Cuba before the Bay of Pigs invasion took place he survived that went back to join the CIA worked with the CIA against Castro smuggling weapons and eventually would go over to work also for the CIA in the Congo against communist insurgents in the Congo and $967.00 he got kind of the offer he could never refuse the CIA said we're going to send you into Bolivia because we want you to catch Che Guevara. And for someone like Felix who was 17 when Castro took power watched his country be taken from him and his family the chance to go after Cho was too good to pass up and fetal agreed sorry food allergies Felix agreed. And was the man who helped the CIA catch Che Guevara and actually the last known picture of Che alive standing next to Felix before the Bolivians execute him because they didn't want him but to kill a to get back the CIA They just wanted rid of him Well the CIA told Felix the safest plan was like to keep him alive they wanted they wanted so they could talk to him right Cheney know everything there is the know about what was going on in Latin America but the Bolivians they were in charge it was their country the CIA was kind of helping out in the entire building army was there as there's not much one CIA officer could do he pled with them to to not to spare his life but the Bolivian president made the final decision they just didn't want him to kind of be a symbol if you went on trial of what you could possibly do they wanted him out of the way they just they said we're going to execute this guy we can't we can't risk him staying alive. The book is an absolute potpourri of brilliant names and I mean if I just mention some of them the thing operation monopoly operation house party the 20 committee that dinosaur brilliant pebbles song gun none of these have we got time to talk about what we must for the sake of completeness ask you why a man called Leonard rifle didn't get anywhere with his plan sending a nuclear bomb to the moon or rifles an interesting character because you think of the title chapter of the book you might think it's some kind of tin foil hat wearing scientist sitting in the basement the Pentagon but rifle who is in charge of this plan later on becomes the deputy director of the Apollo program this is a real scientist and he brings with him some real scientists also Gerard Kiper who if you've heard of the Kiper belt which is a group of comets an ice an asteroid outside of the solar system he was when they discovered that and Kiper was a geologist so he he was brought on a kind of talk about the geology of the moon and he brought with him a young grad student who had been working under him to do the math professors don't do math right they farm out their math to young grad students in this young grass it was a guy named Carl Sagan who some of you have heard of the. Early days of billions and billions of nukes on the moon. And the idea was from the u.s. Air Force and it was look Sputnik had just happened and it looked as though. The Soviet said done the unthinkable and it passed the United States and science and technology and this is always something that the United States a kind of held dearly on saying that look I don't care what else there is we are the country of innovation we are the country that invented the light bulb or the country that invented the airplane we invented the chocolate chip cookie microwave popcorn the s a sketch machine we are the country that create stuff and all of a sudden the Soviets had beat us at our own game they launched the 1st artificial satellite into space so we needed something to show the world that we were back on top or that we had never left and the idea the Air Force had was let's detonate a multi megaton nuclear weapon on the moon so that everyone all at once could see that the United States was still the top dog in the blog and rifle was the guy who was in charge of this policy this plan now with the Air Force didn't understand I think that this is kind of what causes a problem in Iran is that you would not get a beautiful mushroom cloud on the moon that's really what they want right they want that kind of a stereotypical I use a word beautiful mushroom cloud I understand a flare up they are not if your ass rise they wanted a picture of a mushroom cloud on the moon exactly the problem of course is that for a mushroom cloud to exist in an atmosphere and there is no atmosphere on the moon so you would not get this mushroom cloud the stereotype of the Tomic Bollywood's be dust flying in all directions that would be me a big flash but for the most part you wouldn't get the pretty thing you want to get and that is why some people argue that this program called a 119 was finally canceled I don't think that's the case and I actually talk about this in the book where there's no one that has a definitive reason why the program is cancelled rifle and his team said that the scientists kind of turned against it because they didn't want to destroy the pristine environment of the moon the Air Force talked a little bit about the fact that you know they they didn't want to take the chance of kind of starting a space arms race but for me all I have to do is watch the footage from the early Mercury program so this is like Alan Shepard and John Glenn the 1st Americans are going to space. And that's from 2 or 3 years after this and every rocket they send up blows up comes back down flies sideways does nothing but does not go into space and I think the Air Force really worried that if in 1958 or $959.00 if they launched a 5 megaton nuclear weapon with the intent of sending it to the moon that it would turn sideways and land in Miami instead or in Albuquerque or somewhere else because we did not have very good luck in sending rockets in the space the last thing you'd want to do is send a rocket into space with a massive nuclear weapon on top of it good point be very thankful it was Vince Houghton and his book is called nuking the mood it's just tough to help us free from digital b.b.c. Census Slosberg this is b.b.c. Radio 5 live with the news here Stuart Clarkson M.P.'s have chose a cylinder as the new speaker of the House of Commons he replaces John Bercow who stepped down after a decade or so Lindsey told colleagues last night he'll change the house for the better and be a transparent speaker Downing Street coming out of pressure to publish a report into Russian interference in u.k. Politics before the election next month the document was completed by the parliament Intelligence and Security Committee back the March it's since been redacted for publication but number 10 as yet to prove its release Turkey says it's captured the sister of the former Islamic state group leader Abu Bakar al Baghdadi who died in the us operation last month as Mia was detained during a raid in northern Syria and West Yorkshire Police say 2 men had been badly hurt in a shooting that happened about 10 past 7 last night in. Officers say the suspects drove off. Let's get a play on the cricket it's England against easy there in New Zealand in the 3rd t 20 Adam outfits that chasing one a warning them 105 for 2 after 12 overs diving and I'm holding out after an impressive $34.00 bore $55.00 pounds and 18 from 10 balls on t.v. With 2 for someone majestic 60 try to extravagant ramp shots off take another ball of Commons continues on 5 Live Sports Extra but now we get the rest of the sports with Katie Smith West Bromwich Albion are 2 points clear at the top of the championship pasta to nil goals from a Phillips and how Robson can a make them the full team to go top in this round of fixes Meanwhile it was grim viewing to Stoke fans in their 1st game since boss Nathan Jones was sacked they were leavens loss of the season can take a manager or de Laps as they can underestimate the worrying and they are in there's been a serious situation for Not a while now we're going to make sure the players and everybody realize how serious the situation is you know tonight tonight highlighted in post but why on it would put a team out there that we thought was the strongest 11 and move you know we've got to take a large portion of the blame where it wrong to not Meanwhile press north and say they're dropping their formal complaint against Stoke it was for an alleged illegal approach for them manager Alex Neil Paul hacking bottom has been sacked as have been head coach following their 52 loss to Celtic in the Scottish League Cup semifinal Hibs are currently 10th in the Scottish Premiership evidence they Andre Gomes is surgery to repair his fractured ankle has gone extremely well and he's expected to make full recovery from a commentry defender David Bruce broke his leg against Manchester United in 1906 he still 5 lives that you need mental strength as you go through rehab it's the short term ones it's going what all beat walking on I did and in 6 weeks off in 2 months . Let me look at joint training straight would stop it so I was achievable goals which will really help his mindset as opposed to going well you'll be about pint you know in therapy next year and in sneak in a row but some bottled. To be sure Murphy $65.00 and the could place in the semifinals of the Champion of Champions event now from b.b.c. Sport of baseball now he sounds fine slice football to eat low cost at some point you've got to give a young player a chance he just completely lost for words he was barely able to string a sentence together need to confess our Cup captain us ridiculous it's taken we had round as the season progresses we've got the latest news and analysis and some pig named guests we are talking to us go at morning he's the Spain national coach 5 life style full day listen out on b.b.c. Sound slowest for news and the best life for this is b.b.c. 5 live up all night with rock Shaab. It's getting late into our 7 saw as the leaves turn red gold. And fall off the new version of Call of Duty appears in the shops and so it's time for. Adam's annual Call of Duty chat on follow the game on I'm out of this week going to be talking about Call of Duty Modern Warfare No not that one I talked about that one over must be 9 years ago on something like that now with you about the new one and the new one sounds like this the roof charged. Is He's clean. And that's called a duty to modern warfare the 2019 version Joining me are Vic Hood from tech radar living. And Josh West the features editor over there games writer Hello Josh Hey Adam has gone very well I'm under a blanket and going to help but you know these are the prices we have to pay to make right here so let's get is how the way very quickly out have you played the multiplayer Josh I have played the multiplayer Yes And how did you find it I really like multiplayer I sort of I played majority campaign and I played all the multiplayer on sort of prayed I use others but yeah I really like it I think it's got a really good feel it's just you know it's the weapons are heavy the actions a bit slower than the recent Black Ops installment so it's a bit more my speed and the I really enjoy it while I played it so far those black ops maps that I played last year I think were a bit too compressed for me so I found myself doing a lot of dying which is was a little bit annoying but this time I have to say vacay if you play the multiplayer I have. A couple of hours. When I found myself getting killed streaks this hasn't happened for years this has not been since the last modern warfare sort of something's changed to feel like I'm all tinkering under the hood with a multiplayer I find it I find easier but I didn't I couldn't put into whether it was I had to prove to the image of praise I feel like. It's the. Ellsbury play. I don't know if it has lead to just generally been able to get more kills or that it's got to the states now that we understand how it works so we understand the culture. That we're so familiar. If we just think right into it but yeah it definitely feels like ourselves like the weapons feel it just feels like it just runs smoothly over all it's funny isn't it Josh Infinity Ward to my memory always felt like the stepchild version of The Call of Duty games you got the Infinity Ward one of the friends of guy you know our world was going to be Ok but I sort of over the years and it's been a long time since I've been making these games they seem to picked up their game do that because it jive always preferred the Infinity Ward g.t. Installments over the Jensen trailer which a predominately been to war in the black ops series and Sledgehammer who did advance warfare. I've always liked Infinity Ward I think you know whether it's modern warfare or ghost saw infinite warfare I think they've always had a really good filter them I think they've had a bit of trouble with. So not design and you know and some of their sort of intentions clashing with execution but the studio particularly since I think it's 2016 when they hired a lot of ex Naughty Dog staffers to come in and you sort of you saw an improvement in storytelling and the pacing of particular the campaign with infinite warfare and now modern warfare so yeah I've always been a big fan of the. Infinity Ward and I think they make very good video games as it came out as I actually said that I felt most of thinking have I got was the wrong way round if you will the one I liken the other try out when I don't like it it's almost like this too many of the very business that you get lost in Call of Duty going where I've never been that my. Of right side of course of the never been like a massive college like whilst on the way the town b.s. Is but in terms of playing them there's definitely quite clear differences between them all and it's been a while since I played. World Works who you but the difference between. Modern warfare is create drastic This is probably personally I feel like it's the best the series has been in terms of like mechanically development that it's been so far even though there's you know quite a few issues with as well who were your issues with the game want to define problematic and. I find well I think it was a lot of the stuff was trying to make sure it wasn't a personal bias especially I was reviewing it for us. I felt like what was marketed 'd and what we were given in terms of now and it was very different. So they had pitched this as a nonpolitical and nonpolitical very real title that was straight from the have lines you know they want you to feel that morally conflicted feeling that the military feel on the 1st issue with is big and we go is a very political game. That's the 1st thing so there's no stepping on around. And then there's the whole highway of death issue that's of war either one of them the fight in fit whatever felt that they could capture the morally conflicted feelings of the military at all as just yeah it's a little bit ridiculous and I thought that those were the big 'd in terms of the sheer It's a great game in terms of now of what they said versus what we got are. Lining up it just there was quite a few issues and it sounds like hubris Hubris is a brute that even if you would win I'll make use game or maybe when they were putting together the advertising for the game judge here. You know I think advertising these days because it's such a big part of the industry it's almost like an extension of the campaign in a way you know what what they's showed through the sort of advertising the trailers through all of the pre-marketing you know it's sort of reflect back on the campaign and you know I when I was reviewing the game I reset the chance to sort of sit down with a few members of the development team to talk through it and you know Patrick Kelly who's the studio head of Infinity Ward in the creative director was sort of steadfast in you know saying you know quote We wanted to make a game that reflected the world that we live in and I think it's debatable as to whether or not they achieve that goal I think there are definitely issues with the campaign I think there are moments when it's still very person you know part is fully provocative and you know I think it's fantastic in terms of its scripting and staging but there are definitely And you know 5 or 6 of the missions of I think 12 that are a bit problematic so they want to be talking about the world today they want to be reflecting the world today they set one of the opening levels in Piccadilly and it's a particularly being under over run by bicycle people on the attack I think even a suicide vest makes an appearance in that level and if it's quite shocking somebody you know is pretty to be really quite whoa to be in what was once Tower Records and chasing down armed men who are shooting at civilians and police officers do they cleaved to that whole idea of no no this is not political job should they keep maintaining that position when you speak to them about the choice of setting their choice of narrative development of narrative style I thought say so I thought I spent a lot of time with Taylor Krzyzewski the narrative director of this modern warfare and I think the thing that we kept coming back to was he saying that you know. Game is fiction it doesn't you know it's it's fiction but it should seem or feel pulls a ball. Which works to an extent you know it's all well and good than trying to create the sort of impression that this is a really authentic realistic game but as soon as you bring up any comparisons to real world events you know which is where the sort of messy politics comes into play here it's does when they're sort of only too eager to back away you know whether that's something like highway of death or whether it's missions that sort of echo Benghazi from 2012 the raid on the Benghazi and the sea or there are missions that sort of echo the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound you know it's drawing from all these real world elements but as soon as you make the comparison with done they sort of does when they're sort of stepping away and saying no no no it's all fictional it's you feel plausible but it is fictional and it's I think that's where the you know that's where the issues are the May at least they have a fictional country where a lot of this is set down and I think in your interview Josh they pointed out you have or you might point out to them. That this speaking Arabic but the countries are 6 stone which is normally a pressure to speaking area so they've they've tried a kind of a double game there and they've said oh it's like the real world but in this country they would be speaking pressured to not Arabic so they're distancing mechanic even at that moment he absolutely I think you know I think he even said to me in the interview that was a way of sort of pulling people off the trail of saying look this is a fictional country don't try and identify or you won't be able to you know I think the country in the game and it borders Russia again which makes it seem more challenging to place but at the same time you know they are saying that they're drawing on situations around. Innocent of Afghanistan in the 1980 s. So you know sort of see we're looking at sort of early Gulf War there and it just is is it's very difficult to place which makes working out what they're drawing from and where they're taking liberties they're harder. Which is a problem you know I think he says in an interview that if we did directly draw from something from real life it would open a Pandora's box you know of are we doing this justice or we handling properly and then if you look at a full Earth was coming up Highway of Death you'd say well the Pandora's box has been opened here because you scared a little bit too close to the fact rather than fiction and it's fact Vic the very day basically taken what happened I think in Kuwait and Iraq and turned it around so it's no longer the Americans who created the highway of death it's another group it's the Russians or whoever whomever it is have created this this terrible thing so this kind of almost like a play with history there isn't there there's a kind of a historical drive where it's like there is trying to distance and they are very selective of web they 'd decide to do that with the site not so there are some cases like highway 'd of death that you can very clearly said that says they didn't even change the name of They've kept the c. Of the m. And since they kept everything about that situation the same except they changed it to being the Russians it's not something that you can particularly 'd pick and choose where you're going to be factual when you're not going to be factual So I think mainly because the Nia made it easier for people to pinpoint exactly what it was because they hardly bother to change it's a strange one that's uncomfortable it's the probably the game as we have been most uncomfortable to play years for a lot of reasons and that was a big part of you make a very good point because a Call Of Duty has been making people uncomfortable for quite some time because now . I mean the the one with the. Puff the Magic Dragon you speak all the c 130 gunship in the 1st modern warfare there's that thing we were attacking also other supporting people on the ground from a. Base the whole Killie's in the air above it all go kill it with a cannon and a about his gun by see the end of many come and you can been told could kill good kill this kind of stuff you know as you Joe shot hours as this 120 millimeter gun fires a show down there and there's always been this kind of odd tension inside the call of duty James has no do you think I've ever really got to grips with it and I don't I don't think so I think this is the time. Probably the closest to what we know. So this is the time that they have just kind of very obviously taken the lake and gone for something it was fairly. Recent memories we can all identify with and we can think about the fight that we've watched the news and we've saying a types in Syria we watch the Gulf War and we've seen all happen and all these things are really close to home especially like you said if you if you live in London. We've had to deal with like terrorist attacks in recent years and I think that's where the comfortable This comes from because before is big little bits of it feels like they're very purposely like strode into and they're like No this is this is what we want to get we want to make young comfortable and they but I broke my 'd own review my dad was military in Iraq and it made me very very uncomfortable to play the game more than anything ever has and I feel like it is it's something we can identify with probably better than any of the other games because you can play World War say but we weren't there are there's there's always this level of kind of Tisha snus I guess and. We're not seeing Nazi still in the street in full uniform. War with like the things but in this case they very clearly make a lot of people are plain clothed. It's very hard to distinguish between He's the enemy and he isn't it's not our we are we are this are your and our and it's very clear us of them they learned those lines. Yeah it's just it's all the whole game is very uncomfortable and now but I think it's also because it's so early or so familiar to us. And Vic makes a very good point there Josh I mean should if a game company and if a game company size Activision isn't willing to allow its studios or encourages studios to make to take a political position even if they because they don't want to be in the police who game should they be making games with these 2 settings if they can't face up to what they're up to should they be doing it it's a good question I think I feel like studios from developers and publishers are in a bit of a tough position these days with the I don't know they sing more hesitant and they were in the past to take. Direct stances you know if you look at say Piccadilly the missions and Piccadilly and modern warfare for example you know what it's saying is you know so it sort of opens up with a suicide bombing and then a mass shooting that you sort of after wade through and sort of desist you know the sort of protection of the West and in it and you know that mission is sort of suggesting that war in 2900 war can clash with your life at any point any time I mean there's very little you can do to stop it and they're trying to say that that's sort of emblematic of what contemporary complexes but as soon as you try to sort of. Really get into what that means that's when the disengagement stops and I think you know I wish the developers and publishers fell a bit more in bold and really grapple with they want to get you know make games around those themes I think it would be good for them to actually engage with the message behind and actually instead of just using sort of contemporary scenes of terror and terror attacks I'd rather they gave us the opportunity she really sort of ruminate and think about what that means you know I think they were saying that they drew from blown Survivor her and American Sniper Caria in 0 Dark 30 is as inspiration for modern warfare that you know there are films that harbor message they are for better or worse you know they have a political message they have themes that try to explore and get the audience to explore at the same time and the skin doesn't really do that and most play games to do that so that's a very good point then if AAA can't do it who is going to do it and should AAA be getting out of the ways or they can I guess comes into any sort of games of a mass that does not want something that's quite sensitive that comes with AAA as you're trying to monetize this thing you're trying to monetize war or you're trying to monetize something is a very sensitive issue about automatically causes issues because. The kind of assumption is you've got you know a big company who doesn't actually care about the meaning behind whereas if you have the same like in the company I guess in the same thing then they haven't got you know big boss telling them what to do it doesn't feel so monetized I'm not sure if I feel like I've seen a lot of talk about the kind of movies or things that they've been based on but I've heard very little in the way of them wanting to talk to the military and talk to those who have you know had a good experience to hear about experience and if that's what you report Alina to the lean into them how white phosphorous but how the thought the actual outcome of using white phosphorous as a pow field do not use as just a kill streak rewards like the field if they did and they really left and more like it is hard and we aren't saying this is exactly what everyone goes through. This is the reality of war and I like that the environment is a constant the company environment particulars it's constantly your home to watch below your feeling you have to watch for like trip wires and yes to keep above and below us not just you're constantly having the aware of your surroundings as you would and the scenario and it's yeah it's like just that they pull away when they get too much but actually what they should have done from the start is lean and lean into 'd having military on board to make this a game about not explaining that you can ever capture what it's like to be able to tarry personnel in an active field that you come to. A very good morning to you it's 4 am on Tuesday the 5th of November b.b.c. News on Wall the Web The prime minister has challenge Jeremy Corbin to come clean to voters about his brags it planned as both leaders step up their general election campaigns in a letter to the Labor leader Mr Johnson says Mr Corbin has sought to avoid explaining what his proposal is mystical been is planning to repeat his claim that a post brags that trade deal could give the us full market access to the n.h.s. . Facebook has taken down an adverse criticising Jeremy call been spending plans because it breaks the company's rules on political advertising the ad was from a group calling itself the Fair Tax Campaign which is run by a former aide to Boris Johnson used to found no one who's about to become the technology editor at The Financial Times says the Facebook is less interested in the content of the adverse than it being clear about who paid for it they say it's not our job to decide what's. Speech should be allowed on our platform but what that allows is complete abuse when it comes to a bad actor so I think that we have a situation where the actual ad was taken down not because it was wrong which you know let's parse that for a 2nd but it was actually just poorly labels and mislabeled that's the reason why it was taken down the new speaker of the House of Commons to Lindsay Hoyle has promised to restore the reputation of parliament by ensuring tolerance and respect so Lindsay a Labor m.p. Who served as deputy speaker was chosen from 7 candidates after a series of ballots by M.P.'s the impeachment.