Being found by detectives in New Zealand searching for the British backpacker Grace middle lane place have been searching an area outside all Clint Grace who was 22 and from Essex was last seen more than a week ago his Detective Inspector Scott be it for more than the current prices went up by price or a price on it was we have gathered over the past few days we expect this experience . Bearable time for the wine family and. The focus now to piece together exactly what happened to the young girl who came from New Zealand on her way to. A 26 year old man is to be charged with murder treason may use warning M.P.'s the U.K. Faces uncharted waters if they vote against her breaks a deal on cheese day in an interview in The Mail on Sunday the prime minister says rejecting her plan would lead to grave from certainty with the possibility of new breaks are told Downing Street has also rejected suggestions she could delay the Commons votes next week to avoid defeat the Conservative M.P. Marcus fish is a member of the pro breaks it European Research Group I really think it will be very hard to convince people it's going against manifesto promises and losing in a major vote on the main thing which the government is trying to engage is a situation where there aren't questions of leadership but I would love to see the Prime Ministers be able to have it so much more positive approach protests will take place in London later involving various sides of the bricks of debate Ukip has organized the March attended by Tommy Robinson the founder of the English Defense League labor is backing a counter demo to that campaign is calling for another referendum will also hold a rally. A man who was poisoned by Nova chalk in Wilshere says he's terrified Hill eventually die from his exposure to the nerve agent Charlie Rowley has told the Sunday Mirror he still struggling to see and walk and has had a number of strokes is part the dawn Sturges He was also poisoned died in July. Police in Surrey are investigating a suspected child abduction attempt to the Christmas family a man has been arrested for allegedly trying to grab a 6 year old girl in yesterday lunchtime. There's a campaign starting today to highlight So you condition Coote red face which cease earthly to push their bodies in training but then not properly refuel it can lead to eating disorders we can bogans and affect hormones insurance and fleets turn physio therapist and a body face who struggled with the condition as a sports medicine. Clinic. And then had an M.R.I. Which can not consequently we'll say found out that my. Having a stake in you know it is that the. Crisis in my spine as well say it was a bit of a shocking revelation Well there's much more on this in 5 life investigates later this morning well it's amusing with a small tissue reason Croft Liverpool in the weekend top of the Premier League table after Manchester City's unbeaten start to the campaign was halted by a 2 nil defeat at Chelsea afterwards the city manager Pep Guardiola said he was proud of his players despite that last Sunday said his team were not had to be invincible but to be champions Liverpool were placed city at the top though thanks to a 4 nil win at Bournemouth Spurs and also kept up the chase at the top with wins over Leicester and Huddersfield respectively their wins 2 for Manchester United West Ham Cardiff and Burnley in the Scottish Premiership champion Celtic over to Kilmarnock at the top with a big 51 win a Parkhead England and Scotland have been drawn in the same group at next summer's Women's World Cup in France Japan and Argentina make up their group Gloucester left Exodus hopes hanging by a thread in the rugby Champions Cup thanks to victory at Sandy Park Glasgow called an important win but Barth and wasps both lost and Mark Cullen will meet Ronnie O'Sullivan in Sunday's fall. At the U.K. Snooper championship in New York Alan came up being all thanks to a final frame decider this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sound smart guy. A look at the weather frequent shows in southern areas soon clearing away leaving a day of sunny spells and a few showers these most prevalent for western areas and also northern Scotland Winslade easing as well then receiving a clear nights with perhaps the old isolated shower around western coastlines as a ridge of high pressure builds in. The late Premier League football to anyone else like this is for a commentary match Council this is a life producing change this past week is your station and this is. What I forgot Chris and Sam here for breakfast from 6 o'clock but now it's time to join 5 life science if you get this program is prerecorded so please don't text or call. Hello welcome to 5 Live Science I'm Chris Smith from The Naked scientists team in today's program the new phone app to tell if your name MC The scientist who claims to have genetically engineered humans goes missing a why did dark skin evolve in the 1st place clue it's nothing to do with skin cancer plus 2 a collection of microorganisms which cooperate one another the antagonist one another and they produce flame and that slime sex into the teeth we're getting our teeth into the science of dentistry the naked scientists are 5. 2000000000 people worldwide are affected by a name Mia In other words they have too few red blood cells This often means they need to be monitored but that monitoring is inconvenient it's time consuming and it's costly to Emory University's Robert Menino who has a solution literally at his fingertips this technology was developed and motivated by the. Fact that I myself suffer from serious in the ME that requires me to receive regular blood transfusions and as part of that I get my anemia levels checked quite frequently doing this involves me getting myself to the hospital waiting around in the waiting room getting a venous blood draw so getting stuck and then waiting for my doctor to tell me the results and I thought there would be a better way to do this and so I've developed a smartphone app that's able to measure the color of someone's fingernails and correlate that color to a person's hemoglobin level now hemoglobin is a protein that's found in the blood gives blood it's red color and it's responsible for transporting oxygen throughout the body and low hemoglobin levels are what the finds anemia and the low hemoglobin levels they reflected in changes in in the fingernails how exactly what you're looking full We're looking for the color so because human globin is what gives blood its red color someone with low hemoglobin levels will have paler fingernails So how does it work than what you literally take a picture if you will fingernails capture the image and then process the image with the app and it extracts the color and that's what tells you roughly what you know him a globe and never will be yes exactly a user can download the app on their phone and simply take an image of their fingernails based on the color of their fingernails the app gives an estimate of the hemoglobin level how good is it real busy highly reproducible if I did this 10 times on myself would it return the same hemoglobin estimation each time. Yes So we've shown our results to be on average within plus or minus one gram per deciliter of the gold standard test for measuring hemoglobin levels and that's right around plus or minus 10 percent. And he's that good enough is 10 percent good enough for someone with a condition like yours who needs to know what the hemoglobin level is would you be comfortable with 10 percent on the side so right now the app cannot be used to diagnose or treat conditions but the accuracy is acceptable in our opinion for screening so someone getting an idea of whether or not they should seek treatment based on the results I presume the system would be frustrated by no vanish and as it was clear but what about the defects lesions these things these white marks that we get an F. Ing N L's can it get a court help so you've actually hit the nail on the head with that one yet certainly won't work with nail varnish or nail polish as and like you mentioned certain thing or nail bed irregularities can impact the results patients with white spots on the fingernails or maybe male bad injuries would not be able to use the system if a significant portion of their fingernail beds are obscured now I'm in the process of developing quality control methods to try to ignore spots in regions on the fingernails like that a follow on from that is that a significant number of people who have hemoglobin problems linked to anemia often have dark skin I'm thinking about conditions like sickle cell anemia which tend to be in black Africans to people with black skin have a problem with your app or color blind as it were so that's actually the great thing about using the fingernails under normal circumstances in the figure now beds there are no skin cells that produce pigment So in normal circumstances regardless of the subjects skin tone the color of the fingernails should be the same and so we actually did studies with patients for many different skin tones and being in Atlanta Georgia we actually have a fairly large sickle cell disease population who was included in the clinical studies that we did and we didn't show any correlation between skin tone and error . Given that you've got this technology working you can capture and info in future years and you'll be out a better capture images of the nail bed and extract color information could you use this diagnostically or as a screening tool for a range of diseases not just to name it Could you extend this to other possible conditions because we know lots of diseases do manifest with changes in the nails. Yes absolutely so we chose anemia because anemia was really the low hanging fruit so to speak but really this technology could be applied to any condition that manifests in a physical change or a discoloration of the of the fingernails jaundice where regions of the body get a yellow color some hard conditions manifest and something called Scion osis where the fingertips become more blue did a circulation issues Well he beat me to the line about hitting the nail on the head didn't he but his idea really does That was Robert Menino and he published the trial they've run on the app in the journal Nature Communications the world of genetics has been rocked this last week or so with the announcement from a scientist called he John Couey China Southern University of Science and Technology in Chen's in that he'd been using the experimental D.N.A. Editing system called crisper to alter human embryos the modified embryos were implanted and children carrying the genetic changes that he claims to have introduced have allegedly been born including a pair of twins now if this is true it's a monumental milestone for science but it's also an ethical upheaval on a massive scale but the scientist involved has since vanished and his website has been taken down so did it really happen and what's the fallout looking like Georgia Mills caught up with on a Middleton who's head of society an ethics research at the Welcome Trust genome campus in Cambridge this is not been published in a peer review journal so we're not entirely clear if it's true or not but I was at the Hong Kong summit where it was announced and it seems credible that it may have actually happened and so of course then the next questions are Will how could this possibly happen because the implantation of edited embrace is illegal in many countries across the world and it just raises so many ethical questions my mind is absolutely blown with questions of these researches as to how they did this and how they got away with it. What kinds of things would you like to ask them and I suppose where have they crossed the line well I did you get a chance to ask them I stood up and said Could you tell us about the consent process because the 1st point in any research like this is to understand if the research participants themselves. Getting into and it seems from the consent form which is that she now disappeared from the Internet but we managed to have a look at it before it went advertise the research project as a vaccination against HIV So it wasn't being touted as a project about editing of embryos so sort of in the small print the embryos were mentioned they only consent form is actually available that we've seen is in English the participants as far as I understand were Chinese and the film is full of legal jargon and scientific jargon and if you put it to readability school you need at least a degree to understand it in written English so I think the 1st point is we could probably say with confidence the participants didn't understand what they were taking part in so I can send the. Research into editing of embryos around the world isn't illegal but what the common kind of guidance is that is that we don't implant them to lead to pregnancy in the employees are destroyed at the 14 day kind of mark so to actually implant them with leading to pregnancy is highly unethical just really because we don't fully understand the downstream effects of this editing and whether they could be extreme harm in G. Sed to these embryos you know you go to get it one gene and the genes you need there's the added at the same time and all the science in this has not been fully completed yet right and I suppose doing something like this so dramatic you'd expect it to be for something lifesaving in the embryo but this was something different yet absolutely So these embryos were completely normal to the point that they were edited you know they wasn't like he was trying to get rid of a really serious genetic disease at the embryos already had they were. Completely normal What was the reaction like in the room when this got announced their reaction was palpable there was a gospel that I was a silence people were just shocked it was really incredibly powerful and the sort of elite of medicine ethics and science with there in the room and there was just a sense of absolute disbelief how could he do this which research ethics committee approved this has he got thinks approval how is this funded Where was this done and it turns out there's questions about all of those things now do you think this is going to be the tip of the iceberg you know crisper runaway train that we're just not going to be able to stop that's the big fear and if you look at it they sell 10 X. The popping up around the world where they promised to tempt people come and have a stem cell transplant and you know lots of money is exchanged and this is not leading to treatments and cures for people it feels as if that could be the same industry around editing of embryos but having said that I mean if you think about the process the actually have to go through at the moment it's an I.D.F. Process and that's not a straightforward process with a high very high success right so I don't know if this is going to be a mass market for this moment and you know it's going to happen to the scientists. And from what I understand he's going into hiding in the family is going into hiding we also understand there's another family on the way with a pregnancy on the way says 2nd family but of course they've nondisclosure agreements who probably never see them and who Nytol happened to this scientists I understand he has a large amount of cash backing him. Maybe he just disappeared to the commercial world and keep delivering his services who knows depends of what the Chinese government decided today so this is a this is a really liminal moment and so I guess 510 years from now when you think will be. I wonder whether this is going to really push forward 2 things one is tightening up the regulation for those can. She's that don't have legal frameworks Maybe they'll put in place legal frameworks but also I wonder whether they disease and patient community will push forward their agenda on this what was really exciting to see was the Sickle Cell community in addition Muska dystrophy community at the conference and you know they were saying that we want sematic change therapies we want to understand how editing of embryos can help us and it may well be like with mice control their nation they'll they'll push for access to the services that they want and certainly in the U.K. That would require a change in the law but that may be something that we start to work towards other night but I think it will you know really catalyze conversations about this which is a really good thing I'm absolutely positive that this is not a loss we're going to hear on that story I was on a Middleton she's in the work I'm genome campus in Cambridge and she was talking with George Mills you're listening to 5 live songs with me Chris Smith still to come how gravitational waves rushing in a new era of astronomy and we're getting out into the science of dentistry but 1st it's time for a misconception and this week Eva Higginbotham has been picking apart the sands of skin color from very pale to very dark modern day humans have a whole range of skin colors and that's just because having dark skin is better in hot countries to prevent skin cancer and having light skin in cooler countries is better for making that essential vitamin D. Right well this is true but it doesn't actually explain how we evolved to the variety of skin colors that we see today even with lots of time in the sun you know 2 likely to get skin cancer until at least middle age and because evolution is all about who survives long enough to pass on their genes to the next generation whether or not you've got skin cancer by the time you had grandchildren shouldn't really matter in an evolutionary sense so what's the real story before we were actually humans we started off in Africa with pale pink skin covered by a generous serving of fair and our expensive body had at the heart of protecting our skin. From the sun's strong E.-V. Rays as we started losing off our skin gradually darkened and this was to protect us from U.V. Radiation but it wasn't just to prevent skin cancer the main reason we needed protection was to preserve foliate of it and that is absolutely essential for a healthy life as a human especially if you want to reproduce for pregnant women it is exceptionally important as a lack of foliage during pregnancy can lead to serious spinal defects and importantly U.V. Radiation is very good at breaking down fall night so if you were an early human living in Africa and you had pale skin you want going to be making too many babies because your foliage would be constantly depleted by the hot sun but if you had darker skin now I'm all protected from the sun's U.V. Rays and so able to hold on to your foliage better increasing your fertility and making it more likely that you'd have a healthy baby or dark skinned full Bez had the evolutionary edge over the lightest gained as a result and so by the time our ancestors had evolved to be Homo Sapiens the species we are today everyone had dark skin so the reason we evolved dark skin in the 1st place wasn't really to do with preventing skin cancer the much more important factor was that having DACA skin protected people from depleting F.-O. Late now once human started dispersing around the globe to countries with weaker sunlight they had to balance the need to protect their full late with their need for vitamin D. And other essential vitamins for humans which needs the opposite of follow late lots of sunlight and ultimately the range of skin colors we see today all come from the competing needs to protect our full light and make of it to Mindy not to stop us getting skin cancer still since we are living much longer nowadays it's best not to skimp on the sun cream when getting out and about in the summer sun so competing vitamins are responsible for all that variation that was ever Higginbotham with this week's misconception Meanwhile if there's some suspicious sounding songs that you've come across do send it to us at 5 Live saw a baby seat. And we will take a look. Predicted over 100 years before they were to take to for the 1st time in 2015 gravitational waves one Nobel prizes for the discovers and they further validated Einstein and his general relativity theory said all along they should exist since 2050 in the detectives which along tunnels resembling John L's have continued to operate in the scientists working on them have been picking through the cosmic hubbub that they've been recording them from that data they've been up to tease out evidence of further Gravitational Wave events corresponding to pay as a black holes merging a neutron stalls colliding the whole thing's ushering in a new era in astronomy this week 4 more events are announced and I caught up with 2 members shine Lawson to hear how it's going when stars reach the ends of their lives they become these very compact stellar skeletons called the black hole an object which is so gravitationally strong that nothing can escape it the stellar skeletons They lie around in the cosmic graveyard together and sometimes they find each other they orbit around each other and merge to form a bigger black hole and we can detect those with these gravitational wave detectors like go in Virgo now you made the 1st announcement of this happening back in 20152016 so what has changed between then and almost 3 years later so we turn the instrument on and they're on the directional and on all the time and in 2015 we ran for a short period of time and then we turned off our detectors turned them up increased the laser power fix some things that were broken and we turned them on again and then we ran for another very long period of time and so these new detections released over the weekend is the content of that 2nd observing run that we made and since your 1st observation run you've added another detect to not see what she detecting with 3 different observatories on you yeah so the network right now is the like O. Observatories the 2 of them in the United States one in. Hanford Washington and one in Livingston Louisiana and then the European gravitational observatory called Virgo which is outside in Italy and how do these detectors do what they do we call them observatories because we're doing astronomy we're observing the universe but they are not telescopes in the sense that we're used to thinking about astronomy they're laser interferometers So we basically use lasers there are these gigantic L's in the lasers go in 2 directions down what we call the arms and these gravitational waves when they come through the detector they change the lengths of those arms and we can sense that by time I mean how long it takes the laser to go down to the end of the arm and back again given that these changes are going to be really subtle excruciating the tiny changes in the lengths of those which a comatose long gone by only these trees how do you actually detect a difference that minute so what you're looking for is gravitational waves they warp the shape of the detector in a very definitive way they tend to take one of the arms and make it longer at the same time that they take the other arm and make it shorter and so we look for that consistent pattern between the 2 arms to be confident that we're seeing something from this cosmic event but when you make these measurements so you see the detect registering a signal how do you actually know that corresponds to a couple of black holes that were 20 round each other now coalescing to make a big black hole everything that generates gravitational waves makes a very specific pattern of way depending on the mass as well as how that mass is moving relative to other things around it black holes look different then say neutron stars because black holes behave differently when they get close to each other the neutron stars do black holes gravity is. Very strong and when they spin they do particular things to the gravitational waves that things that aren't spinning do so we look at the shape of the waves and the shape of the wave seeing codes in it what made the waves and so this is very analogous to the way we do astronomy traditionally when you look at a star through a telescope the light encodes all the information about the star when I look at the light from a star I can tell how hot it is based on the color of the light I can tell how fast the star is rotating based on whether or not the color of the light has shifted towards the red or shifted towards the blue right all of that information is encoded in the bit of information that we get and our job as astronomers whether we're astronomers who use light or astronomers who use gravitational waves is to understand how to extract that information from the waves that we get and how far away the detections that you're describing in the new pipe is. The new detections are some of the most distant Gravitational Wave sources that we've detected so far they're kind of 34000000000 light years away from earth is going on wasn't it it's a long way some people though a number of people actually quite reputable people have said that actually you've got you know some have been a number of headlines saying that actually what you're seeing isn't gravitational waves it's actually noise in your upper right or some other explanation for the signals you'll seeing how they go to point the core root of all science is intense scrutiny by our colleagues and our understanding of our data in response to that scrutiny we are very confident that the detections that we've made are all detections for a variety of reasons we have multiple detectors that all say the same thing and now with the release of this new catalog we have 10 different binary black hole events that all agree with the behavior for a black hole gravitational wave. Emission So we're confident that these events are definite astrophysical events there's an additional measurement that we made last summer where we detected the gravitational waves from a binary neutron star merger so a neutron star is a slightly different kind of stellar skeleton it's not quite as dense as a black hole but it still results from a star dying and what's important about that detection is we detected it both think gravitational waves and with telescopes so we have extraordinary confidence in that detection because we've confirmed it using very traditional astronomy methods as well Jane Austen who's at Northwestern University and the manuscripts for those discoveries just got released in the online reports of tree archive and on that note now it's time to make even more waves this time with the news in sport but do stay with us because we'll be back right afterwards to look at the science of dentistry from digital B.B.C. Sound small space. Is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live and with the music just approaching her past 5 this is Simon Morgan place examining an area outside to Oakland in the search for the missing British backpacker Grace millennium so they have found the body Grace who was 22 and from Essex was last seen more than a week ago Theresa May says the U.K. Will be entering unchartered waters if M.P.'s votes against her break city along choose day in an interview in The Mail on Sunday the prime minister says rejecting her plan would lead to grave uncertainty which could result with the possibility of new breaks it's a tool there's expected to be protests later as various sides of the break sit debates make their views knowing you can't has organized the March attended by Tommy Robinson the founder of the English Defense League labor is backing a counter demo to that campaign is calling for another referendum but also hold a rally. Around $10000.00 people have been spending the night sleeping outdoors in Aberdeen dun Di Glasgow and Edinburgh to try to raise millions of pounds for homeless people musicians including K.T. Tunstall and Amy McDonald's performed at each of the venue S. That's the news he resigned craft as the sports Manchester City have suffered their 1st Premier League defeat of the season away at Chelsea Chelsea corner and of any click had. Turned a good job it was. Adding to and can take opener for Chelsea at Stamford Bridge despite defeat the City boss Pep Guardiola was pleased with his side's performance in general we were fantastic. Sometimes we were in near more upset and today of course very upset because we lost we came here we will play we sure we win and we. Create chances they had one in 44 metres the Can we consider. But football is like this sometimes it happened in that level so it is the level of Champions League. Side slipped behind Liverpool at the top Mohammed Salah scored a hat trick in their 4 nil win it born with Spurs stay 3rd with victory over Leicester while Arsenal beat Huddersfield one nil Manchester United got their 1st win in 5 league games beating Fullam 41 there were also wins for Burnley Cardiff and West Ham defending champion Celtic are back on top of the Scottish Premiership they leapfrog Kilmarnock with a 51 thrashing at Parkhead all of Saturday's football results are available on the B.B.C. Sport website and that England and Scotland have been drawn together in Group D. For next year's women's World Cup there alongside Argentina and Japan is the reaction of England head coach Phil Neville I think both sets of players know each other inside out a lot of them play in the same clubs together are. Really dug a great spirit about them something good is that many Scottish Women's Football solve is going to be a real tough start to the group Exeter 2719 defeat by cost. When the rugby Champions Cup leaves them only with an outside chance of reaching the knockout stages their 2nd in the English Premiership but they European form has left director of rugby row backs the 1st rated I don't want to take pressure off the players and I want to. Give you guys I'm just going to have a bit. Because ultimately that's probably what will happen not to perform better at it. Are we going to. Have to go through some of these days there are also defeats for both wasps and bath but wins for Glasgow and then. Solomon has reached the final hurdle in his quest to win a record 7th you case knew could championship title he Chris passed Tom Ford 61 of his now reached the follow in his past 4 appearances that you can place it in a final. Just really really just a few bones but you notice what happens you know semifinal big matches you know things are miscible O'Sullivan will face Mark Allen in Sunday's final after his 65 when I was being a. Light middleweight title eliminates or against Michaels or Rafa with a unanimous points decision in Sheffield and the Nicky Henderson trained Altidore made it 15 wins out of 15 with victory in the group one Tingle Creek chase at Sandown. Very well thank you Rachel. Is going to talk about. It. Because I like to listen to. Anything out there definitely isn't necessarily a. Fundamentally believe there is. An extreme case to. Back Monday morning from 6. Radio 5. Available on the B.B.C. Sounds of. Welcome back to 5 Live Science I'm Chris Smith from The Naked scientists and in the next half an hour or so is the clock and I are looking at the science of dentistry coming up I visited team who've got a way to chemically rebuild our teeth we explore the micro monsters in our mouth and we'll take a look at the gruesome history of dentistry but 1st open your mind widely because with us is dentist Nick Williams from Devon to house dental practice I 1st of all Nick what actually is a 2 thought goes on inside one. Adults have about 30 miles and they're made up of enamel which is the hard outer layer which is about 97 percent mineral that's the white bit denting is the middle layer which is about 70 percent mineral and then you have the nerve and blood supply in the middle of the tooth called the pulp and that has extensions of the nerve that extends into the denting and when you get sensitive teeth often that's the dainties exposed there when you say the denting 70 percent mineral What do you mean by mineral and what's the other 30 percent and so it's mineral in terms of Crystal called hydroxy appetite and there's much more that you know which makes it harder is a similar matrix to bone and then the other bit is made after college in another extensions of 11 but stress is quite structure and the Hydrox appetite is the stuff that makes enamel tough and hard to moan we put fluoride in toothpaste that gives it additional strength doesn't it how does it do that it doesn't need so if you have sugar in your diet the bacteria feed of sugar and then actually can take minerals out of the to make it more porous that's a start it takes to Kay and Freud intake paste helps to remain rises to so it can actually reverse the harmful effects of that decay How does it actually do that how does it get on to the animal and do something if your of your periodic table is in the right hand side it's quite a reactive element instead of Hydrox after you have hydroxy for appetite which actually a bigger Crystal and that's more resistant to that erosion and then this is added to drinking water isn't it fluoride and also it is the. Based on is it there in is the amount of drinking water sufficient to actually protect it and that's a great question it depends where you are in the country is a naturally occurring element and it's often quite a controversial subject water fluoridation in fact the Center for Disease Control in America named it as one of the biggest breakthroughs in science and health care in the 20th century for protecting teeth because it's getting a frequent application of that fraud on to the teeth just by drinking that water with a trial in it and that's clinically proven actually out on the average at the adverts but it's clinically proven that that fluoride does protect if it does strengthen teeth yeah on a critically the half hours of studies prove it and it's one part per 1000000 so it doesn't actually very concentrated and apart from fluoride in toothpaste what else is in toothpaste that helps us to clean teeth so it's an actual just foaming agent . That to show it works that just tell you something else just helps helps the foam again and helps the fluid actually get on to the T. And interestingly actually talk to phase of the finished brushing just spit out don't rinse off because that frog will actually stay on the teeth Yes that will a dental colleague of mine said you know lots of people go swish swish swish before they go to bed it's the worst thing you can do because actually leaving some of that stuff sticking to your teeth because there's also a sort of sticky agent in the material that's into the paste isn't there that makes it more sticky and they said in a pocket on your teeth before you go to bed and leave it on because it will help to strengthen teeth overnight definitely especially got sensitive teeth as well you can apply some sense to toothpaste on the neck or tooth and that will help to reduce that sensitivity Well in terms of actually cleaning physically using toothpaste what's best in the battle of the brushes electric or traditional manual to brush What's the best way to clean to I would tend to recommend electric toothbrushes over manual brushing the aim of the game is still the same but results are generally better the electric tooth brush and we've actually we're going to run a little test here every year with. Hello Eva and. Even as our naked scientists in turn at the moment actually a Ph D. Student studying how the brain develops so we thought actually she'd. Put her mouth where money is. And tell us what you've done in the name of science today so today I have not brushed my teeth or use mouthwash or any other agent Mike that I brush my teeth last night and I haven't rushed in this morning or any other point during the day so every dentist listening to this is now shuddering. But this is all in the name of science so you've also eaten a disclosing tablet that will show us where the mark is yes I have you I just just chewed that up a few minutes ago and this binds to plaque which is the stuff that coats your teeth and shows where the bacteria are so even one has a blue mouth next so what you want her to do example is it's a real helpful sort of visual aid to help with brushing and the result with patience so we're relates to as if you can split your mouth into left and right and if you brush your right hand side with your mind your tooth brush and the left hand side of the electric toothbrush and then we'll see what the results are and we'll leave EVA during that while we listen to the next part of the program we'll come back to you in a 2nd they want to clean thoroughly while Eva gets on with that some of us think actually particularly enjoy a trip to the dentist Sorry Nick but if you lived a few 100 years ago it could be a lot worse I paid a visit to the British Dental Association Museum in London where curator Rachel best say to me through the horrible history of dentistry. The dentist didn't come about it until about 1728 before then anybody could give you advice about your teeth or take your teeth if that was necessary perhaps you would go and see the blacksmith if you're in a poor rural community to have your teeth carrots Perhaps you would consult the barber surgeon and he would also be as well as extract your teeth. Or so a postcard here at the museum earlier that had a jest sort of surrounded by a crowd and some poor man waiting to have his teeth pulled out was it quite I guess of us. Form of entertainment almost Well I think it could be certainly there wasn't a dentist if you don't maybe he's traveling chief drawer or he would come into town and drum trade he's looking for somebody who's have to be fake and he's going to wreck the stage in the center of town and he's going to whip up the crabs they're all excited and he's going to get these teeth and he's going to wavier Rand and perhaps he's going to pull a maggot at his pocket and say this is what's been causing your T. Fight because you know it was the chief we're living in the tooth was the reason for teeth decay it would be this great marketplace spectacle think of it as ye old Netflix of the 720 S. This entertaining extraction was certainly a last resort for the patient in question but it's what you expect from an era where overall hygiene wasn't a thing and it wasn't just the poor communities that were suffering with extreme tooth decay. Let's fast forward a few decades where the wealthy were eating more and more sugar Well once you've had your teeth extracted Perhaps you'd like to buy a somebody else's teeth so the practice of transplanting teeth in the seventy's and eighty's was quite a fashion and rich people would buy the teeth of poor people who were willing to sell them for their money and literally planted from one minds to the other it didn't work as you might expect but nonetheless it's been immortalized Tolman's Rowlinson cartoon from $787.00 say it's a great record of procedure but if transplanting didn't work the next thing that you would probably try is buying an i free denture So this is a hippopotamus Lavery denture beautifully carved great skill involved in this but there was no real accurate way of measuring the math so it was pretty much one size fits all Rachel showed me a pair of the. Ivory dentures the gums were carved from white ivory and the walls replacement teeth were also traditionally made from ivory they didn't always look natural and so people started pitching teeth from dead soldiers on battlefields or took them from dug up corpses a lucrative business part of course contamination was a big problem no they wouldn't last year putting them into washing effect is a pretty Petri. So they're going to rot they're going to sting it would be quite horrible and you thought Morning breath was bad but then things started to change by the $850.00 S. We have a revolutionary product that comes in it's called vulcanite and it's a pink rubber it came from America in the $850.00 S. It was cheap it's much more easy for the dentist to make a set of dentures out of these you would attach porcelain teeth that they've now got into that denture it's cooked and it makes the heart much more statically pleasing and a set of these he's going to last you for your lifetime now I. Say much so that people would give them as wedding presents Perry was the dentist in question but people still using their local blacksmith. So the 1st qualification comes in in the $860.00 say we see in 1960 the L.D.S. The licensee in dental surgery obviously as a result of that the students have to learn somewhere so the establishment of the dental hospitals in the dental hospitals schools so you're beginning to get the basis of a profession you've got all the sick Quitman that's coming in in the Victorian period all the manufacturers The starting to make the equipment in the profession needs so that's really really helping you've got a much more scientific understanding coming on so it really is a big time for the dental profession we've got improved porcelain teeth and finally the much loved dentistry Oh was invented by a James Morrison in 878 to prepare for gold fillings you could achieve 2000 rates Haitians in minutes a dentist have a very strong right Farai if this generation so we give it. To is basically there's a. The it's been this mechanic around which this massive road and then is attached to a drill which has a little mechanism at the bottom which just spins round and round and round and this is the drill that would eventually get into people's cavities you know look at what's going on there yes so he saw he's not the you setting machine and he said I can use that for dentistry I've certainly heard that in guys hospital in the 1970 S. When they were power if they were in the middle of treatment and there was no electricity this piece of kit would come out of the cupboard so in order that they could finish it off and you can control the drill speed making it pretty fine piece of kit really but what about oral hygiene were people claiming that might prevent the need . There's one idea that actually soldiers returning from the 1st World War brought back with them the teeth brushed that they had been. All Q.B. They had an easy to clean their teeth during the war clean their beats but none the less it was the teeth brush it begins this idea of having your teeth brushing the family that actually the idea of cleaning your teeth it's beginning to take Rita it's going to take a long time but actually you've got the founding of school dental society children's toothbrushes clubs all things that a set it in able people to buy its sheath brush to bring it into this concept of the home and to clean your teeth once a day we have got to twice a day yes once a day it's a starting point and actually the importance of oral hygiene you can do something yourself as a patient. Or Gosh it makes me so glad that dentistry has moved on since then that was Rachel from the British Dental Association now speaking of toothbrushes we left our colleague scrubbing away furiously with a mechanical electric tooth brush before we play disease piece there and now she's moved on to the other half of her mouth and is scrubbing away with a normal manual tooth brush and I've been very diligent you know me the still gentle home one moment I use an electric toothbrushes do I do so casually feels a bit odd to be using a menu and we asked David to eat a tablet which would show where the dirt a mark on her teeth were having not cleaned her teeth all day so who's still with us next dentist what you see what your verdict 1st I can see it was done a very good job certainly better than a lot of teenagers that I say unless I wear use electric toothbrushes work perfectly that's lovely and clean the room and so I breathe in my new process just a little bit of the red stain along the gum line so the little bit between the teeth which is where the letter to push is more effective at getting rid of that does that tend to be the Normally this would danger area that it's all. On the gum line which is where we characteristically missed with a manual brush Yeah absolutely Chris that's the that's a real danger and that can thing cause inflamed gums breeding gums that can actually cause gum disease which is the other problem that can affect the teeth as well as to stick a verdict is the electric toothbrushes doing a better job definitely and with the 2 minute recommendation electricity brushes have a little timer so you get that 2 minute warning and then also have a pressure sensitive void using too much force $1.00 and $2.00 a box of mechanic or manual toothbrushing is causing government session and we're in the teeth way so well those things are prevented ideally So that's that's great I have a question in that I'm 27 and I've still got a wisdom teeth coming in and caused me lots of problems I thought I'd be done with my wisdom teeth years ago so why wasn't it wasn't he takes so long to come in yeah it's a great question we all would normally have a 3rd set of Marlice which other wisdom teeth they come through anywhere from sort of late teens early twenty's to late twenty's and I think just now there's not a lot of room for them to do cause problems the street taking out a lot more than they are now and with those teeth being left in we do tend to find more problems for sure now the reason why plaque is such a problem and why you do need to brush properly is because actually plaque is really bad for your teeth and we're going to find out why now where it comes from because with us is Gordon Ramage he is from the dental school at the University of Glasgow Gordon was actually in the plaque that we hear mentioned in T.V. Adverts by dentists and we're counsel to clean off all the time plaque as a collection of microorganisms but Tyria generally but we do have eastern there as well sourced the same fungi that we used to bake bread worth and make alcohol worth took a collection of microorganisms which corporate one another the antagonist one another and the produce lame and that's lame sticks into the teeth so a plaque is basically bacterial slime Yeah and I think the problem is the public would think about a better fit and I think what we have to try and get the best across is that we have micro monsters in the most. And one. These these microbes actually eating on are they just dining on what we eat Yeah absolutely and I think our diet is should really important so I think we're nor an awful lot of things called trip to Cork I know that when we should be sweets and other products that they target the sweet shtick roads and to slay him and that helps to make them even more sticky what about because people say that you get this acid attack so you eat some food this feeds you but it also feeds your mouth microbes and they produce this acid surge which is the acid come from yes so because the bacteria are stuck there and this lame they start to grow and by growing the produce carbon dioxide and that makes the sedative go even farther down so the ph goes really low and once that ph goes really a little below below $5.00 that it starts to diminish or allies the animal that you talked about earlier so the bugs are driving the loop ph which then basically starts their road then I'm on they cause carry since to 50 K. How do the bacteria you have in your mouth determine your likelihood of getting tooth decay and if you have bacteria that are better at making more acid more of the time does that mean you're more prone to more tooth decay than someone who doesn't have that or think it really comes down to an individual so we acquire groups of microorganisms when we're born and somebody for example who breastfeeds Verity somebody who's born says area might have a very different micro biome So the types of organisms there are. Quite clearly that that's the implication and who how you may then go on to progress to then to Dicky or ginger Vitus so recession the gum bleeding of the gums depending on the types of organisms use an individual well have a real bearing on what you get obviously of vitamin to factors like what you eat are going to play a key role now what about actually in the same way that some people like to try to manipulate the bugs that live in their intestines in order to. Better health and these are both prebiotic you eat certain foods that select for better bugs but you can also take probiotics to actually ingest certain classes of microorganisms believing that this may change the spectrum of bugs that live in your gut and this will improve your overall health can we do the same thing then for oral bacteria could we eat certain things or wash our mouths out with a mouth wash with certain suspensions of bacteria that would change the composition of bugs in the mouth and therefore change our risk of getting dental decay or gum disease when the concept is absolutely true I think the ability to manipulate your microbes of the most with diet supreme Biotech's is probably more likely than probiotics so giving a life by cheery and your May 5th is going to be very difficult and over there's a number of studies that are sort of suggest of the changes in your oral health parameters that are very limited so the evidence is pretty poor at this point not to see that it couldn't happen unless it was in the same way as we have fecal transplants for helping people Worst see deafen fiction and there is a potential to be do well micro biome transplants there's a potential there sounds promising doesn't it Gordon thank you very much for joining us this corner he's from the University of Glasgow dental school is it now as we've had if we don't look after our teeth properly the animal that protects our teeth breaks down and once it's gone currently it can't be replaced now researchers from Queen Mary University of London may have developed a way around this they've created a protein that works like a scaffold for a number it's just the right shape and has the correct chemical configuration to extract from saliva the chemical building blocks of enamel it then assembles new enamel in situ stitching itself into the native material in the process so you could Scarth it into a prepared to tease cavity and it would grow you a new tough enamel coating. Showed me how so I took a tooth out today to show it to you is that actually this is the actual This is. And he actually has some lesions which is to show you the type of lesions that we would use this material goes there are literally like black holes and is that what fillings actually are actually feelings what we are developing is a material that would be implanted instead of these feelings but they would actually look and behave like an animal so what we are aiming to do is so material that can grow it can behave us as natural enamel and can also integrate with the natural tissue so say goodbye to fillings this works by placing a preteen onto the tooth that helps connect tissue under a range itself into a highly ordered structure and that's important and now is essentially tiny nanocrystals that are locked together giving it its vital strength those developing crystals are then able to capture the calcium phosphate ions that float around our mouth and keep building and building more crystals till the teeth is her pet. Varlet me over to a giant box full of petri dishes and the cavity ridden teeth in question at the moment this important process is divided into 2 stages in the 1st H. In these big plastic box what we have is a controlled environment where we can assemble these protein material directly on teeth and that's to make sure the protein has a fighting start in attaching to the chase and arranging itself in the most structured way possible then we take that protein material and we immerse it we put it inside a solution that is recreating the mouth environment recreates the conditions of. The 2nd stage we took the 2000 the clear box and placed it into a beaker of watery looking solution which mimics the chemistry of our mouths. I really hope that this wasn't someone's actual saliva exactly actually we're doing experiments with actual saliva which is yeah for the moment we're working with a solution that looks like saliva and so it again it gives us the opportunity to. Then how different compositions of that solution can affect the growth of these mineral structure and so is that just full of say like how soon the phosphates that you need then build up essentially correct and so we have calcium and phosphate ions we have we control the C.D.T. Of the environment which is very important in general the environment that that is present in the mouth and how is it performed if you found you have feet. We have very promising results so I see resistance is similar to an animal it's stiffness he's not quite died of enamel but we are getting close to it the material is integrating with the tissue the crystals are growing in the coating and also inside of the denting to be inside of the of the natural tissue so the integration is also an important goal that we are working on pressure that looks really from seeing in the ideal Well if that all happens how would you then yeah go to your local dentist and say oh you know my feelings how would that work yes so what we're hoping is east to develop a material that the dentist would be able to apply directly on the tooth of patients in an easy way just like you go now in their other materials that are being put in our teeth but in this case we will be a material made out of these proteins the 1st challenge is to be able to do it in an easy way that the dentists can do it in a practical fast way directly in the dentist's office the other Chinese used to have it stable so that as soon as you deposit it in you implanted then you can start talking you can start drinking you can start eating everything sort of that active environment of the mouth can take place but yes so if you don't already shows promising properties Well here's hoping that was from Queen Mary University of London still with us is Nick Williams he's a dentist in Cambridge and also Gordon Ramage who is from the dental school at the University of Glasgow is quick fired interest around the pair of you 1st. For you make this whole association between gum disease and heart disease how does that work so essentially the plot but here in the mouth can cause inflammation the gum tissue which in becomes more poorly to the bacteria coming into the body your marine systems and trying to fight that off I mean essentially to critically inflame state which will enter all other. Disorders in the body which Heart disease is one of them the information the corner Ortiz but also rheumatoid arthritis dementia diabetes there are links to all of these diseases goodness is quite far reaching then and Gordon Do we know what microbes the particular culprits or causative reason why there is this is a session between poor oral health and heart disease well for heart disease it's a bit more difficult I think it's more about the functionality of the groups of organisms so if you have more nitrate reducing bacteria they're more sort of healthier and depending on the composition of those we can handle nitrates in our diet than that has an implication in terms of our whole inflammatory system and intend to remove part of writers we know absolutely that there's an organism cope or from what is ginger ale it's a bit like the dinosaurs from earlier really that we know that produces or 2 on 2 bodies and that's the driver of the top half right just and if someone has their teeth removed so they then have dentures Do they still nonetheless succumb to gum disease or are they protected from that risk factor yes this is a really interesting question I think we would think dentures we think about perhaps the elderly population were filled inchers but there's a whole group of individuals in this country with what we call partial dangers so the TIF but they've also got sort of artificial devices gosh right then and the other thing I'd like to know is charcoal toothpaste this is something that supposedly gives you a dazzling smile is the latest craze does it actually lack the studies of the mice the studies been done on conventional Freud toothpastes the chocolate toothpaste again it's going to have to clean their teeth more but a lot of their claims are. Actually unsubstantiated so you know you go for Freud toothpaste the charcoal can be a bit abrasive can damage city in fact Yeah I wondered if it's actually making it is lighter because it's a scratching them down can be the case and you raise the question of whitening How does that work and is that good or bad excellent So I mean there was a bit of a wave of popularity of veneers which partly came across America you know perfect white smile it's a lot of Americans almost like the piano keys teeth or the teeth are quite frankly white to the my toilet specially celebrities on television. Because they've glued stuff on the front of their teeth that's not their real to thumb looking at slowly and I mean the generic name for them is poor slim but no days in the teeth which is a sort of hard on proc side show which just releases stains looks into the teeth and encourage people to combine watching without also don't text if the teeth are straight too easy to clean so it's a win win Well Nick Williams from Devon to House thank you so much and thank you to all of our other guests this week Gordon Ramage Rachael best oh and. That's it for this week 5 Live Science returns at the same time next Sunday when we're going to be exploring deep space before then you can also catch our special 2 hour live science night tonight here on 5 Live from the Naked Scientist team will be delving into cyber crimes meeting the creatures the Know What Time High tide is at and. Coming next on B.B.C. Radio Manchester my shaft. With my to B.B.C. Radio much. Being India. Is the. Thing to. Do is the. Free trade. Is the truth. Is dig. In. To. Zoom.