To not detract attention from the 6 series of i.t.v. Reality show she feels the best thing she can do is stand down but the B.B.C.'s Liza assemble thinks that was probably a mutual decision this is a program that is all about relationships and is a very very popular program with a great influence on younger viewers it's been getting something like $6000000.00 viewers a huge proportion of which from the younger demographic towards the she's been charged with a very serious offense I think she and i.t.v. Will presumably have taken the point of view but until that is all resolved one way or the another it would be wrong to have her presenting a program of this magnitude on one of their channels Mr Black is to you before Highbury corner magistrates' on Monday i.t.v. Says it will remain in contact with her about future series now can sell a house London's worth at a rather wet in grey day today the rain lies in Patty for a time then some havea best mixed in there and temperatures only reaching 8 Celsius 7 at the rain clears East the sky clears the temperature drops down into low single figures in central London a little colder towards the suburbs Plus we could see some mist and folk by dawn on Wednesday and with the b.b.c. Radio London travel rock sleep. The Vava have tunnels closed at the moment after it's closed all day today and all day tomorrow until about 4 o'clock for tree cutting as a result of that it's very slow on the a 13 and over Tower Bridge as traffic diverts plus traffic still very slow up towards the black or tunnel after a collision earlier on such a fix still not really but covered from that there to Kensal Green Chamberlain road and part of Kilburn lane closed off by the police have several buses on diversion in Dean's tweeted us to say there are delays in the area as a result of that on the cheap severe delays at the moment for the circle district in Hammersmith and City lines as well as the Metropolitan Line Baker Street was the bacon lines got mine it allays Queen's Park to her and will. On the whole the chain's running fairly close to timetable aside from Southwest in no way with the ongoing industrial action and the landscape there's more travel at $1130.00 on digital radio $94.00 f.m. And on b.b.c. Sounds this is London this is b.b.c. Radio London turning Crystal Palace made me laugh he said I made a pact with Charles Dickens if he didn't have to finish the Mystery of Edwin Drood if I don't have to finish Little Dorrit says turning now I never finished a little door it was I mean people were saying it's praises and it's by the kids it can't be a bad book but it was so. Drenched in kind of Victorian Secor in melodrama never quite got that. I can't remember if I ever finished the Ok. There's quite a lot of the star of the not finished and then is off as the read more the months and has some of never even begun to turn of to see is one the never even still to. This is one of my favorite tricks of the moment. It's about swimming trunks and it's buzz erosive a. Phone . Call right. If you. Follow. Me. Closely and. You'll. Yes. And long. As she can costs. Money a long. Fall From come. To come. Cease all. Good fun 07 and. I'm we're about to go to church group about to go to one of London's great churches a church which. I'm sure Dickens would have known very well indeed and it's the church of St John's in Waterloo and I'm joined now by 2 people by Canon Giles God who is the vicar of St John's and by the architect Erik Perry who's been working upon it welcome both of you to b.b.c. Radio London and I thank you let me begin with you Giles give us a bit of the history of the church and also kind of how you see its present they function and the church has been really at the heart of the community since it was built back in 1824 that area was a marsh until about 70750 and then it began to emerge as part of the industrial revolution and there was a special funding stream that put churches in these new towns back in the 19th century so it was built then it served the people of Waterloo right through the ninety's and for those who do not show where we are put give us the hot so we always say it's the church by the Imax Yes So it's opposite opposite Waterloo Station it's right at the heart of London if you can't look that little bit of green in front of you exactly yeah we go to church art and things like that and we're quite close the National Theatre in the South Bank Center and all that so we're very connected to all of those things and I guess historically that would have been a large local resident very working class community it would have been very much so yeah certainly by the end of the 19th century it was pretty pretty much slums Yeah and then the church was bombed in the war and it lost its roof and it was burnt out and it was derelict really until 1950 when the it was rebuilt for the Festival of Britain so it was the kind of the Church of the Festival of Britain we did absolutely yeah we did and it was stunning and choirs came from all over the country to sing there as part of the festival and we've got a wonderful mural which was painted at that time by a man called Hunt's 5 Bush who is a Jewish refugee who came over in the 19 $130.00 s. And found his body painting murals in churches where he's done this fantastic meal which is now falling to bits so part of it is part of a whole plan is to put to restore that and you mention music and music and perform . Has been central to the kind of the work of the church yet completely we we see ourselves as one of London's great musical churches we went home to the south met Sinfonia which is no extra which gives people the training in being part of a professional construct and then they go off and get jobs and full time orchestras we have lots and lots of a mixer and no fresh an orchestra so use us we have choirs we're also we also have something called a Waterloo festival and we reach out very much to kind of local community arts organizations What do you still have a Co a local congregation Yeah very much so over half the congregation walks to church released locally in current street and around the I was going to say because I think people probably forget that there are people still living in very much in the area around there definitely I think we have about 8000 people living there live in the parish we don't have 8000 people coming to church on fortunately but we have come up with the only. Next plan so you're doing some major works of restoration which is where it comes in Eric welcome to the show and this is not the 1st church that you've worked no not at all. Some just over a decade ago we finished the the renewal as it's called of St Martin the fields which included a lot of space underground crypt Yeah that's right yeah and what was your brief on this particular project Well it it 1st of all I think you have to imagine that the church when it was referred Bisht in 151 had his roof put back on and so on was set in a wasteland you know and that's changed so the 1st thing in a way is to make it more accessible to just feel a bit cut off is a job on an island you know when you drive past all psychopaths that you're risk and kind of go boy Yeah so the architect's kind of brief in 1951 was to create a sanctuary with that that that surrounding Depor really obviously the festival Britain site comes up and then so much as. And around the site so that's the 1st thing is to to make it more accessible but also to rework areas in the crypt that have been dormant so to make that also accessible so lift staircases and then to improve the conditions of the nave which is this it's a Greek portico in the front where the big box in the back huge wonderful spaces 11 meters high you know 20 meters wide 30 meters long good acoustics very good but a bit too lively and tends to get a lot of what the acoustic versions called flatter so reflection so a lot to do the improve it and the lighting and much else and give it a give it a really fresh look yeah. I'm a crazy I mean I'm not a religious man but I love churches and I think that anyone who lives in London we're very aware that they tell the story of a city in many ways and I'm always slightly nervous when I see one of the great churches being kind of redone if you like I mean I think of spittle fields for example which is a truly great hoax more church I find a little too bright a little too new and a little this is if they raise the stories a little you know I mean about that. Yes And it's interesting I'm not just saying that one but you know over restore can't you can and actually you know we have a limit on budget that sometimes a good thing. At smart in the fields you could walk in and say what's happened actually because it's quite judicious it's easy to get it wrong and make it make it to Dusty as well you know to get it to kind of get the pattern nation in the wrong way so redecoration is one part of it but it's also mediating from this huge space down to a focus on the stand and dealing with pragmatic things like storage and we've also worked very closely with lots of heritage but is the 20th century society been really interested in is always going to say Ok So yes the end does that area reflect the kind of Festival of Britain 950 is nice it does it does and we're keeping that I mean we had quite some quite big discussions when you were the 2030 or our initial plan plans had to be changed quite a lot and we're now doing something which both celebrates that past and that's why we want to refocus the fiber but also brings into the 21st century What's the 5 Bush that's the mural that's right that is very much a part of history because it's interesting that that period of architecture that kind of we know what's known as mid century modern has become very fashionable as it was the sort of thing that we was we were not now is in 20 years ago now we're saying oh that's actually fantastic However the it must be said that the architecture of the 1951 reworking of the church was not in the spirit wasn't of Modernism as you interpret ing it you know which is of course very in vogue. Is it what your vision at the end of all of this and when is the end of this well hopefully the end of all this will be. April 2021 in time for the 70th anniversary the 1st for Britain right where raising We need 5000000 pounds we've raised 3000000 so we're on the Today show over 2000000 shy but you know we're heading that way and we might talk more about how do you raise the money from is corporate money is this where does it come it's a bit of some of it's come from the mayor of London which was great he's given us 3 course of a 1000000 through his good growth fund we've got trust in foundations the congregation of been very supportive and quite a lot of other people so we're heading in the right direction we do need more donations and there's a website some jobs Waterloo forward slash reignite. The most important thing about this is that it's for everybody there are kind of 3 headings as arts community and environment so we want to make the building fully sustainable so make it carbon neutral by storing p.v. Panels and. Panels on the roof and source heat pumps and various all this it just does it as a question I mean obviously relating to the church but more generally is there were a tension ever between wanting to be carbon neutral wanting to be as green as possible and the aesthetics of a building Yes certainly with with historically historic building Yeah I mean I live in a I'm very lucky I live in a Lake George in house and you can't put the double glazing you can't put solar panels on the roof it would be appalling that that's all absolutely true of the Navy particularly you know but it's Act We're starting with a crypt and there it is possible to make such radical improvements that we end up in a very good place from the point of view of sustainability and it's in the equipment it's in a multitude of small endeavors that add up to something that is really radically better I mean one of the other things that our area is and if famous is the correct word but known for is that there's always been a large homeless population around the area What's your relationship because obviously some are in the fields you know very similar story so there are 2 things that we really focus on the local community want to supporting homeless people and we open every Winter's Night Shelter Yeah so on Monday sat down in the crypt always in the church but it doesn't work very well at the moment because we haven't got proper catering facilities and things so this will enable us to provide proper food for 25 homeless people during the winter on a Monday night we also have a food bank and again that doesn't work very well because we haven't got the right city so it will improve that and we provide quite a lot of advice and support people so again that will become better through this building the other thing we do is a lot of supporting people into employment especially young local people who are funny to get work we've got a really successful track record. Sort of helping people in this one form and yeah we do a lot of that and but again we're hampered by our spaces and we want to improve them so that we can provide better services and we have a really good record about 80 or 90 percent of the people we work with Go want to get a full time job well which is great. Well how far are you into all of this where we're at the actually at the stage of being in able to implement this whole scheme so the intention is to start on site in July we've already done some enabling work so we're well on our way and you know there are there are contractors' in the wings and we're ready to go I'm going to be where you have to. Resteal meet the team. When we're going to have the project so we wouldn't be able to do the Church of the limits of that's what we need from the guy to turn that into the great space could be when the great day comes and he's having some big musical events to celebrate do you think we certainly will yeah we'll be lighting up the sky and it's going to be amazing when we reopen especially for celebration the Festival of Britain as well and if people come along to St John's just just literally if they were in the neighborhood a lot passing by oh they want to come and have a look you open every day yet where if an everyday 10 till 6 noticed those were still people about the scheme those donation boxes there's all those things and it's very much it is really a church from London and that's what we want and maybe some hearing about that from Kevin Giles go to the vicar of St John's Church in Waterloo and the architect Eric Parry Gentlemen thank you both very much. Was some poem about Mabel Mabel won the table. There it is somewhere in the very back of my addled brain. Stephen West Ham says Robert are you here up to Christmas Eve just so you can play your traditional homeless man singing before the break for Christmas yes indeed I am I'm here right up to Christmas Eve I've got Christmas day off I'm boxing day off and then I'm off for New Year's Day but other than that I'm here here all the way through and there's a link to the piece of music that I play every year and the church we were just discussing the piece of music is Jesus' blood never failed me yet and I'm sure most of you will know because you've been listening to the show a long time that it features a homeless man who was recorded back in the 1970 s. Singing that little ditty there's no other new word for it kind of rhyme. Set to classical music and on 90 odd percent certain that he was recorded in the grounds of the churchyard of St John's in Waterloo he was certainly recorded in Waterloo now it could have been in the old roundabout drama before it was the imam because people are homeless but we still live there and that was known as cardboard city was in it but this was earlier than that and I'm pretty certain he was recorded singing Jesus' blood in the in the. Church Jones he was with a group of homeless people who were there at the time that recording was Mike so there's an absolute link to that church and that piece of music which I will indeed be play. And it is it's a tradition in the show that we couldn't possibly like. The look of the lead to the. News. Want to join in it's news. News. Just some. Fun. See. She's a. Young punks against come she. Comes on the phone. The next. Phone. Thanks again. And. Again. Thanks. For getting up. K. K. And lots and lots of people tell me what to read which is fantastic and you know what many of you agree I'll tell you exactly which Dickens book is coming out as 5 for me to read next you know if you've never read Pickwick Papers that's the one I would say I mean they were great vexations I think is the greatest but Pickwick pipers is sung much fun. London's headlines at 1130 Good morning Boris Johnson has told his senior ministers You ain't seen nothing yet it is 1st cabinet meeting since the conservatives decisive election when Meanwhile Labor has branded the prime minister reckless and irresponsible for adding a new clause to his breakfast bill that would make it illegal for parliament to extend the transition period beyond the end of next year a London m.p. Has called for an urgent police investigation into an evangelical church that stands accused of financially exploiting its young members spac nation which has won praise for helping ex gang members find salvation denies the allegations made in last night's b.b.c. Panorama programme but the labor m.p. For Croydon North Steve Reid has told b.b.c. Radio London it's a cult and Scotland Yard should take immediate action the London Fire Brigade has been branded wasteful a not particularly well run by Her Majesty's inspectors the commissioner Danny caution who was given an advance copy of their report 6 weeks ago there's already announced shall retire at the end of the year more than 3 months early and the t.v. Presenter Caroline Flack says she won't be hosting the next series of Love Island after she was charged with assault at the home in a sling too and she shares with her boyfriend the 6 series of the reality show launches on i.t.v. 2 in the New Year. Miss Flack says in order to not detract attention from it the best thing she can do is stand down London's weather cloudy and wet today some heavy rain at times and feeling chillier than yesterday talk temperatures 8 Celsius 46 Fahrenheit now with the b.b.c. Radio London travel Rob Oxley. Deva have tunnels closed my few today and tomorrow until about 4 o'clock each day the trees that overhang the approach to the tunnel being cut down and back long delays on the highway and the 13 heading towards Tower Hill and over Tower Bridge as a result of this Jamaica the southern section old southern approach to the hives and not looking quite so bad still busy northbound up towards the black or tunnel that still not recovered from the rush hour and at Kensal Green Chamberlain road and Kilburn lane both of those closed off police investigations underway after an assault on the cheap severe delays on the bay Kalu line is also severe delays for the circle district and Hammersmith and City Lines was the Metropolitan line now on the move again but just minor delays the chains on the whole aside from Southwest in their way posting a good service there's more travel just after midday. This is all right tell me the last thing that you did that for you that was probably wanted the privilege to do it is London anywhere in London. Without hearing some noise of this is this family arena it's pretty big I mean I'm most excited about coming out and just saying hello there been askin to him he was here this is the trick is to come see you pleasure Milledge bonsai b.b.c. Radio London. Oh and let me remind you what we've still got to do we've got to listen to Perry right a female singer songwriter in a kind of a jazz a vine coming in to perform for us she's playing at the. Crazy Coke's on the 27th of February and she's going to be playing with us today so that's going to be the last half an hour live jazz music with Perry right before that between 2 of the in one mark I miss will be in Mark his now kind of industrial history correspondent he looks at factories and stuff that was made in London but we've put him on a kind of a Christmas tape so he's going to be looking at factory Christmas parties what were they like what did they involve Do you have any stories to share so that's what we're going to be doing with Mark between $1230.00 and. Between 121231 as to what became the show we love you to recommend your favorite Dickens book to me what's the best Dickens film of the I think there's 2 contenders to that personally but you tell me or your favorite television adaptation or whatever it might be which if I've seen in a Dickens you could you can do that with the kids they are a collection of so set piece scenes. And there are you know there are so many wonderful ones so let's talk Dickens between 12 and 1230 we're going to be talking Dickens in the next half an hour as well because I'm going to be joined by the curator of the Charles Dickens museum Louisa price to talk about beautiful books Dickens in the business of Christmas before that one of my favorite tricks of the moment my favorite tricks of the year it's a new find for me this I'd never heard of Leif volley back before this particularly you still don't know an awful lot about him except he's made a truly great album and the time from the moment is the way that you feel. Just to carry the. The mad ones of the blues. Some to do with between. Sometimes it gets to you from. There we assume. They were just in with. The clothes in the room in the 1st. Leg of the run. Is that really well that was worth a. Lot and I was struck a deal. It took me where I will. The answer. Is not really when I was in. Other than I was took. It took me where I was. In the way to thing. To the way yes feel. To the way you this feel. To the way that you feel. To the way it's feel. Leaf volley back is such a good piece of music that and in fact it's such a good album it's one of the ones I would really recommend the album is called New worries by leaf volley back and you heard it here and probably nowhere else but on the river elms show and today you're hearing a lot about Dickens because begins and London and Christmas the 3 things just go together there they're so intertwined every notions of Christmas are essentially Dickensian this certainly Victorian I mean kind of Christmas as we know it was invented in this period of time as by Dickens as much as anybody else really and that's what's being celebrated over at the dickens House Museum and I'm joined now by Louisa Price's a curator from the as Museum in doubt c. Street to tell us about beautiful books Dickens in the business of Christmas Louisa Welcome to the show thank you so I think so 1st of all for those who've never been to the museum in the must be some poll cells out there maybe they describe kind of where you are and why you're there and what you do so the museums a bit of a hidden gem so it's up a street that you probably don't expect a museum to be on and it's actually within Dickens his house where he lived in the $830.00 s. So it's a Georgian town house and open from the kitchens in the in the basement all the way to the nursery in the attic and in the neighboring properties because you've got next door as well as that I mean yeah and so then it's a property we've got the opportunity to have a shop and a cafe and then also this these special exhibition rooms where we can bring out other parts in and show them off at times like Christmas and your own which is kind of deep in what I think covers Dickie newsies London Yeah it's a really great location because even just getting out the door you know you're immediately into different places that feature in the novel so you know just down the road are key spots from all of the twist and don't these don't be straight is nearby there's heaps of streets nearby which named after the characters as well which is very yeah it's a it's within explore. We're not just coming to the museum but the area around as well and also you've got the foundlings opposite haven't you which is very much you know the idea of childhood and Christmas it kind of the 2 go together Yeah absolutely so. Christmas is a great time comes the museum obviously because Dickens loved Christmas he wrote about it and so the house is decorated as Dickens and his family would have had it at Christmas time so this is his can of go into the dining room and see the ticky laid out and. The drawing room with all the you know greenery about in a Christmas tree on display as well but this Christmas we've also put on a special exhibition and tried to showcase parts of our pollution which talk about the way that Dickens was this big part of helping establish what we understand is as a modern day Christmas what's the what's the core of this exhibition is is it the book this is it absolutely So this you know there's a lot you can talk about when you talk about Dickens in Christmas and particularly with the Christmas Carol but this exhibition is about really the way that Dickens was actually quite commercially savvy that he understood or all these significant changes that were happening in the 19th century the way society was changing this in facilis on the family on children on on this particular news new feast of season of Christmas as well as developments in printing and communication technology and He will all these things together and he thought I've got an idea I want to write the perfect gift but for Christmas and he came out with a Christmas carol he wanted to in some incredibly short period of time absolutely it was 6 weeks yet and so he put together this beautiful perfect little bit for Christmas and 6 weeks time and it was an instant hit and also the in in subsequent years he's released several other Christmas books and in Christmas stories and very much cornered the market for Christmas publishing because we think of the kids the novelist and his what 15 novel I guess but this course of short stories and ghosts . Sorries Yeah yeah and that something he was really aware of that set for Christmas time a little ghost story is just perfect it was something that families would gather together and the readership around the fireside and and and share that time together a Christmas carol is a ghost story and subsequently some of his later Christmas stories are also. Full of a similar theme so what do you have to illustrate this with what people actually see while so we're really lucky for this exhibition we've we've we've been partnered with mags brothers who are great antiquarian but she just around the corner from us and they test some beautiful books which we would get to the 1st edition with these these are actually books that were given by as gifts at Christmas time that have just been an elaborately decorated so they buy the Great but bind a single skin Sutcliff they used to use like Reus Reed jewels precious stones within the embodies of the books so we're just talking about Christmas in terms of like the gift giving of of printed materials we've got lovely things like that but we've also barred things from St Bride library who are just off Fleet Street to talk about printing in the 1903 they were great at another head in Jim in the city that have a collection that relates to the printing industry and Fleet Street and so they're helping us talk about the way these books were put together the role of composite has and and bookbinders in the period was thickens a reader as well as a writer that he read other people's books Yes absolutely and he was very select Dickens's libraries that she really well documented because when he died it was eventually sold in its entirety and so you can do you do see a great range of authors and also he he commissioned a lot of authors for his his journals as well through the fifty's and sixty's so yes he was very aware of particularly British writers how long do they live in that particular house because he moved around a lot in the yes so he was only doubt he straight for 2 and a half years but it was quite a signal. That period of time so he spoke to the everything he wrote Pickwick Papers all of a twist and a clinical day and a tiny bit about to be read which isn't bad for 2 and a half minutes that's not you I got you and those of those a doorstopper books is the biggest Yes so it was a very productive period of his rushing life where was he living when he wrote Christmas Carol so he just moved out of doubt histories and he got a little tour of America in between and he was living in different terrace which is not actually far from the museum as well it's again just in that sort of Mala been area as well. You also have events and performances and things that you at the museum in years with so every Christmas we have. Various readings of Dickens's Christmas stories and. Some popular performances as a Christmas Carol but this year also we've got other actors who are performing some of his Listen 9 Christmas books as well. It's a beautiful saying it's we're not a method museum but it makes it into motion and it really. Just in throwing performance opposition you have to what tickets you do and I have to warn you that some of them are selling out fast at the moment. Yes and the other thing is we're not open on Christmas Day But on Christmas Eve we have an amazing event where we've got his all through the house and so if you come to question immersive experience in every room you go and you'll find. Some some actual something and exciting going on Ok so all of these events taking place plus there's the exhibition thickens in the business of Christmas and you just get to get a sense as well I guess of the man and the place again absolutely So I hope people coming to 6 but most of say the way that this was 176 years since Carol was written Dickens has just had such an impact on the way that we're celebrating Christmas today well that's the dickens House Museum over there in the street in w c one and we've been hearing about it from Louisa price Louisa thank you very very much. I. She. And. A couple of people are send me e-mails about the old curiosity shop and I mean the Dickens book with our overseas link to that but I mean the shop in the same Poland Street it's rammed the back of the l.s.e. Is a show I used to go past every day when I studied there and I've been there you know my son studied this I've been in more recently. I've always thought always been told that there isn't that there's no link to Dickens with that shop it is a shop from that period it's one of the few surviving shops one of the few surviving buildings some of it's kind of a medieval building I think a 17th century shop it survived you know the Great Fire of London in the Blitz and all of those things but I don't actually think there's any link to Charles Dickens with that show isn't what the city was by Still it's being called that later. This is still so kind of pixie shoot. I haven't seen that show I've been to the I've been there for quite some time of course you could go there and go to the dickens House Museum and take a look at it you could go to the sun's Museum which is very very close by because it's right by Lincoln's Inn Fields It's sort of behind the l.s.e. I'm just performing in food starts and it's well worth taking a look at. It's Portugal st not punish St sorry that's what I meant I didn't mean policy I mean. Thank you for that yeah it's import you go Street which is at the back of the l.s.e. In just the bottom of Lincoln's Inn Fields I guess and a walk around that area from there over to where Taoist Street is take you through ridiculous Islam and there is a dumby street and there is a Others Well I've never known is the lady said you know they're named after Dickens characters I think it's the other way round I think he went out walking the streets and called characters after the streets that were there because those streets were built before decades so in one instance I think it is that. Anyway so it's well worth that guys have a look at last time I looked it sold slightly unusual and might shoot of a club of a kind that I probably wouldn't way because they were so Pixie ish but a fascinating place. The love affair and everlasting love. But between 12 and 1230 I want you to tell me what the dickens what Dickens to read next what's your favorite Dickens What's your favorite be construing What's your favorite scene from a Dickens book or film but love to hear a word of God. Off to that. We're going to be talking to mum I miss our industrial history correspondent about factory Christmas polities us what we're going to be doing now at the top of the show I played with some fantastic fruits in it and I said I love it a flute I thought to toot my fruits for you couldn't them what song that kind from someone pointed out of course that it's this one. Slug it will be let's plug. Away. If you can use some exotic foods there's a. Come Fly With Me Let's fly let's fly away. Come with me let's close down shoot. Him. There's a one man band then do his flute for you. Come fly with let's take. The blue. One side gets you up. One side gets you. Sorry about that let me try and get this into the right place that went horribly wrong. This if we give the. C. To a vanished they go let's try this one let's have a guy. Coming up on the Rove show still live music from Perry right and Mark I miss on Christmas Paul is then off to the edge Joe Good job good to be joined by Cheney would all taking the makeup world by storm and she's also going to be talking about Joe Brown's 60th anniversary to all of that coming up here on b.b.c. Radio London. On Digital Radio 95.9 f.m. . B.b.c. Sound. Is a. B.b.c. Radio. London's music midday I'm Matthew Schofield Boris Johnson has told his senior ministers You ain't seen nothing yet and they must repay the trust.