At the world gymnastics championships in Stoke got this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. Sound smart speaker and. A quick look at the weather which will be cloudy and wet for most of us overnight moving into Friday and it will be dry and overcast with rain across much of England and Wales it will be heavy in the south right with some showers in Scotland and Northern Ireland and they'll be average values about 16 Celsius. Only dead people are allowed to have statues but I have been given one miles to live the long awaited sequel to The Handmaid's Tale is now available as an abridged audiobook on b.b.c. Sands I don't want a husband I think they're disgusting returning to Gilliatt 15 years after Margaret Howard's original novel The testaments follows the stories of 3 different women who take down with me I have made me lose the testaments and abridged audiobook by Margaret Atwood download the free b.b.c. Sands up to listen. Around the world and across the u.k. On digital and online I'm Richard Foster now more opponents. And. Pleasure heard in the news that tens of thousands of people have fled their homes in northern Syria after Turkish forces stepped up military action discussing what's happening with Kurds in the u.s. Very shortly gauging that sense of betrayal as well after President from decided to withdraw American troops in just about Bridget with Pat Leahy from the Irish Times not Island correspondent Emma Vadi discussing that huge change in mood after those talks between Li over at her and Boris Johnson yesterday one of the paper's headlines this morning is has Boris only gone and done it I'll be staring into the very gloomy brags that crystal ball but he says from Ecuador where protesters angry about the end of fuel subsidies are taken 8 police officers hostage and if you want to put pen. Paper and sell millions Tom Van layers you man the things we can learn the secrets of successful novel writing by studying reviews on Trip Advisor on that later in the program start though in northern Syria where 60000 people are reported to have fled their homes on the 2nd day of a major air and ground assault by Turkish forces several civilian deaths have been reported in Turkey's president recip Tayyip Erdogan claims more than 100 Kurdish fighters have been killed in their efforts to create what it calls a safe so just inside the Syrian border and he's also threatened his critics in Europe with a flood of refugees. Can you zillion Hey European Union get a hold of yourself look I'm telling you again if you describe our operation as an invasion again we'll take the easy road we'll open the doors and send you 3600000 refugees who triggered all to your move to you says they're grown learned well in Washington President Trump has tweeted he could either intervene militarily threaten sanctions or lead a mediation effort between Turkey and the Kurds our correspondent in Washington is Chris Buckley Hi there Chris do we know which sort of options the president's most likely to choose I think the fact that we even have him tweeting 3 different options give you a sense of the White House is struggling to find a strategy a clear strategy to deal with all of this because it is still fending off these suggestions that in some way President Trump gave a green light to this in the Asian of northern Syria by withdrawing American troops from the border area and as a result you do have President from coming forward and suggesting these 3 things but if you go through them 1st of all this idea of kind of having some military solution where America would go in and somehow I act as a policeman that our President Trump has said time and time again that he wants to try and get troops out of the Middle East he has no desire for troops to be there and in fights this withdrawal of troops is really a part of the fight that he doesn't want the u.s. In the Middle East so it's not a realistic solution you know he might be forced into it but at this stage he certainly doesn't want to it's Another suggestion is this idea that he could somehow immediates between the Turks and the cards hard realistic is that given that genuinely Kurdish forces feel that they have been betrayed by the Americans who they fought alongside against high as they have not been find in a position where essentially they believe the American president has not backed them in what is becoming a pretty bloody conflict in northern Syria and then the other option is of course to have some kind of sanctions you know some kind. Penalty for Turkey but in reality it's Congress that has been leading not charge in Washington rather than the White House and in fact President Trump is kind of being forced on the roots by the fact that so many Republicans in Congress members of his own party are saying it's time to take action we cannot lie this to tick Pless So those potential threats he made earlier in the week about decimating even destroying the the Turkish economy they like to come to fruition to think well listen at the end of the day America is going to have to be seen to act if this becomes a situation that clearly causes a huge amount of concern and what we're seeing in the last couple of hours and we just had a briefing from the u.s. State Department is that they are trying to draw red lines that Turkey must not cross and there is a certain hardening of the line which if you take a look at the briefing that we just heard from the u.s. State Department they say for example that if there is anything that sees inhumane and disproportionate moves against civilians then they will act the even talking about you know being potentially concerned about the likes of ethnic cleansing very much saying that if there's anything that is done to really target civilians here then they're going to have to be seen Act But you know there are many inside the State Department who are privately saying that they want the president trying to be a lot firmer when he spoke to President at the weekend to be a lot firmer certainly at the start of the Wake whenever President Trump said what he saw Turkey doing was in his view a bad idea they wanted him to be harder and I think there is this real pressure noise from inside the administration for the language itself to harden the irony of course being that they had a fairly limited military force in northern Syria that they decided to pull them out now it looks as if they may need far more troops are trying to get everything sorted out again yet if if they choose that path I mean if you're right in saying I mean we're talking really about dozens of soldiers here. But it was in some ways a to Teren to Turkey and there was clearly a feeling from President President already one by having that conversation with President Trump that he wanted some kind of almost permission not quite dark but certainly to have consultations with the American before he went ahead with this military operation as I say the real concern from Republicans here is that President Trump in some way gave them a green light night the State Department hitting back very hard on not saying that no it was a red light but the criticism keeps on coming even from loyalists without what Senator Lindsey Graham before he is one of those people who stands very much in President Trump's corner if you take a look at his statements over the last 24 hours they are so critical of President Trump demanding that he changes course while while he still can you know pushing for the reestablishment of c.f. Sones calling for sanctions to be imposed but actually one of the greatest concerns in Washington is that all of this could have an impact on i.a.s. Forces there are a lot of people being held in prisons by Kurdish forces there are a lot of people in custody and they are concerned that this could in danger of that and that there is a danger and this is not me saying that it is politicians in Washington saying in some ways that Islamic state could in some form regroup Chris Butler in Washington thanks so much indeed for speaking to us here on up all night while listening to that was Dr Bill Kurdish and fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy Hello there Dr Drew out Good to be with you Richard very good to hear from years well tell me your story 1st of all how did you actually and being in the United States. So as you mentioned I am Kurdish from Iraqi Kurdistan and in 2005 I won a Fulbright scholarship so I came to the United States to do my postgraduate school like up my master's and my Ph d. Here and now I work at foreign policy think tank focusing on the Middle East what do you make of the news then from northern Syria and is looking fairly chaotic isn't it. It is indeed chaotic and the tragedy of it is that there was a good policy in place that was working and it was disrupt it promptly and subtly the United States for quite some time since 2014 with the effort fighting ISIS back in Iraq and Syria particularly in Syria has been maintaining the balance between 2 allies who hate each other the Turkish government on one hand the white p.t. Which is the nucleus force leading the Syrian democratic forces who are each other's enemy and Turkey considers the white p.t. a Terrorist group an offshoot of the p.k. K. Which is. A group that the United States and European Union designated as terrorist but they are just the United States with eyes on the price of being defeating the ISIS caliphate has managed to maintain peace between the 2 until Friday night until Sunday night and they managed to maintain that peace as I was saying to Chris earlier with a very very small military force today and that's why I said it was a policy that was actually working a 1000 American soldiers that were helping and training and providing intelligence to the Syrian aquatics forces the Kurdish let's force in Syria to maintain the pressure on ISIS ISIS is defeated as a caliphate but they have the Cupola t. To keep it military to to research and in fact there are signs of that resurgence So while that was happening. The troop size was quite small but their effect was quite high so it was not a major popular issue here in the United States in terms of because there were no casualties this was a war that was working it was a partnership that was quite effective against the main goal of defeating ISIS but obviously Turkish politics on one hand and president trumps on politics and campaign promises on the other came to bear and perhaps this news is also a welcome sight show sucking some oxygen the news about president's impeachment. How are people Kurdish people feeling in the us at the moment that they get that sense of betrayal which we've heard so much of in the past few days. Absolutely people are devastated and heartbroken because the curator. Syrian Kurdish forces really blat to lead the fight against ISIS they took the war and the fighting to ISIS they lost 11000 fighters 22000 injured they are taking care of the largest prison camps were ISIS fighters detained and their families in another refugee camp and they also did anything and everything that I say ask them mean order to avoid escalation a confrontation with Turkey they agree to this saves own they agree to pull back from the border the Greek to. Leave the move away their own like heavy machinery and arms away from the Turkish border just to have a confrontation from from Turkey and now that this is happening despite all of that support despite being indispensable to the fight against ISIS which the president himself President Trump touts as his own victory but that could not have been achieved without Kurdish support and yet in a blink of an eye all of that is forgotten and this war of aggression is allowed and the ask of the Syrian Kurds perhaps unlike Iraqi Kurds for example who had greater ambitions for independence in 2017 Syrian Kurds were asking for only protection they were asking for that military presence to stay because that was good enough that was powerful enough to deter Turkey and protect the curse now that we are how do you think therefore it's going to affect the region and Iraqi Kurdistan where you are from. So on the emotional side this is reminiscent of past similar cases in which u.s. Commitment has a short expiration date but it's also very into Spencer full relationship that the Chris have with the United States because even if they're disappointed with you know different u.s. Government that come and go and for example in 1974 there was a deal in which the Kurds were scapegoated in 1990 the Kurds rose in Saddam Hussein in responded to the call of President Bush but then when Saddam Hussein came back with a vengeance they nice taste was in there to protect them so you have these ups and downs but ultimately the Kurds they say have no friends but the mountains but increasingly no friends but the mountains and the United States but hence they are Stace disappoints the fear of Kurds on the one hand it is the influx of refugees that may go into Iraqi Kurdistan because there are already many Syrian refugees in that country so that will definitely add to the economic pressure on the government that is one worry and obviously that is a lot of psychological worry that ISIS may have a serious resurgence the Kurdish Democratic the Syrian the credit forces have said that fighting Turkey back is that priority rather than keeping the pressure on ISIS on guarding those prisons that I referred to earlier so this may create the kind of vacuum. That may allow ISIS to restart again and again the United States government itself admits in the inspector general report that there are 14218000 ISIS fighters still out there and let's put that in perspective it took only 300 of them to take over a 3rd of Iraq if you were president would you simply send you all u.s. Forces back and keep fingers crossed. Well some damage is done to u.s. Credibility if the u.s. Has sensitivity towards sending boots on the ground these wars are not going to be over but at least this was one case that was working the United States did manage to maintain the balance between 2 allies one obviously and NATO ally superior military power but the other is a very effective militia so to speak against the war on terror. The formula was working and the president could simply go back to where things were before Sunday night. We'll see what happens Dr Bell one Harbor thanks so much indeed for speaking to us here on our Paul might be from Kurdistan and a fellow at the Washington Institute for the Near East Policy we're listening to up all night here on 5 Live that surtax a little bit of a turn for the showbiz world the real life tale of a g.c. H.q. Whistleblower hits the cinemas in the u.k. This month Keira Knightly is taking the lead role in this new film it's called Official Secrets takes us back to that turbulent time in early 2003 in the lead up to the Iraq war then tells the story of the translator Katherine Gunn who leaked a very important memo to the press it had its premiere at the London Film Festival last night I've been speaking to the entertainment journalist Natalie Jamieson who's been telling me what the film's about this is taking me back to 2003 which doesn't feel like it was that long ago but feels like a lifetime ago really politically speaking I think anyway so the lead up to the Iraq invasion was that time and Catherine Gunn worked for g c h Q So parts of the British Intelligence Agency and she was a translator and she overheard some conversations and basically recognized that everything that we were being told in there in the press and the facts that were kind of coming out once one tallying one adding up with what she had been listening in on and she decided to do something about it and that's what she she was so blue about and it's now been made into this film and Katherine Gun is played by Keira Knightley and you know it's kind of fascinating to this you know been able to talk to the real life people who were there and interesting Lee They've all been saying that this is an incredibly accurate portrayal of what actually happened you know it will be a British Hollywood movie as well so what's the style of the film exactly Well it's kind of called a docu drama so it's based on a true story and obviously I'm sure some things have been changed and altered suiting you know much the format over. Thriller it's like a political thriller if you like but you know it's kind of fascinating to see this play out and I let you listen 1st of all to Katharine Graham who was the real life person in this and she's a fascinating person for many reasons but this is why she told me this even though she had to speak up rights for your own conscience I mean I know there have been I've spoken to people and the u.s. To actually to propagandize the war and they are terrible guilt. And having to live with that for the rest of your life is must be really difficult you know thinking Am I responsible for that bloodshed you know that most breeders weigh heavily on you and so I think that's why we need to be able to speak out and how do you feel having Keira Knightly playing you kind of found Wow It's just unbelievable as a as not nothing that I average on it would be possible at the time and I have to admit after the case was strong and I was walking away from the Old Bailey and Shami Chakrabarti who was director of Liberty at the time she said to me kind of slightly jokingly She said you never met him 1015 years that is it might be f l made of this and I was like yeah. You know so I can't really comment but they did make a film and as you say starring Keira Knightley and it's quite a change from her normal kind of roles we expect Keira Knightly to play isn't it and it is I mean it's interesting you say that as well because chatting to her earlier as well and one of the things I was curious to know was whether she feels like she's kind of been quite outspoken in a good way I think in recent years and whether anything in particular treated that you know maybe just increased confidence or whatever it might be that made her feel that she wanted to speak out and she said it wasn't anything in particular she's always been politically engaged it's just we're in more of a political time it feels right now but you know I was kind of obviously asking her with regards to this film official secrets which was premiered at the London Film Festival and I want to ask your. How important she felt is to speak up if you think something is wrong I mean I think it's obviously very important but I think realistically the consequences for people who do are often pretty grave and pretty serious you know I think when you look at Catherine she was absolutely packed her life definitely her career and her freedom on the line and actually I think very few people do that equally understandably I think we took after ourselves and the a system of accountability that's How's the film been received massively Yes been received really well actually and you know the people involved in it I think it's always interesting when you see these films are based on or real stories and real people he was certainly still around and living and breathing how they respond to that maybe as well and you know to a person the same things that we had seen over the the journalists who knew the real life journalists who received this secret leaked memo this e-mail that went on to create this huge storm really if you like that was kind of surrounding Katharine Graham there was also a barrister he took on the case all the real life people were there at the seething screening as well and they said how much they were proud of the film and that they believe it was an accurate portrayal. What things were like at that time and I think they're going to tricky thing to get right with these sort of things as well is that you know everyone making movies like this are aware that they don't want to be overly preachy as well you know if people want to spend their money you know book a babysitter if needed go to the cinema it should be entertaining as well but this is the kind of entertainment that Katharine Graham was saying what she really wants people to do is go see this film 1st of all enjoy it enjoy the story the political thriller that's unfolding before we recognize the themes that's but it's bringing up about whom you can trust well where you should look for information and what's your conscience is telling you about things and whether you feel it's right to stand up or not since you know it's kind of a question that Keira Knightly capping asked across the evening as well was what would she days if she was in that situation and you know given less information that she knew was being mistreated when she speaks happen and sort of stand up and be cast in that way often think it's for anybody you don't know how you would react until you're in that situation which is pretty much the answer she was given as well but it's you know you sort of hope that you would have the courage to do that and I think all these kind of conversations that are taking place right now are good and need to continue and that's brilliance at a film can help promote that as well now see James in the entertainment gently speaking to me a little earlier about the new film starring Keira Knightley Official Secrets taking us back to the turbulent time in early 2003 in the lead up to the Iraq War Well from one bit of entertainment to another you probably heard that the 1st act of glass to be 2020 has been announced and they started with a legend no less a person than Diana Ross will be gracing the Pyramid Stage and no doubt will be belting out songs like this. To me. That. Chain Reaction a piece of calls wrote it down on backing vocals that you also heard mild piano upside down on coming out of the same bass line baby love with the Supremes and still in the name of love well we tried to get hold of Diana Ross a self. And she said well she did say instead we spoke to carries Anderson and she's playing the great lady in the stage production of Motown the musical It could come that have to be because of the just finished little yappy just like it was the day it had that I'm back at my house with the kids. So you definitely try and go Oh definitely it would be rude not to say you were Motown the musical I mean Diana Ross must have had a massive influence on your life who would you like so much about and to me when I was going to go back and. The biggest expense for us growing up my mom I don't know I just think she said to me and Rich you go do you. Think the good side of 55 and she just said glamorous and she's going through a lot and I just had my head journey and. Really. Is it going to be tough to imagine her appearing on the on the stage and think yes. Very well I think I'm Or I'm sure she'll probably get carried to stage. A similar to Shirley Bassey in a way isn't it I suppose she did really well a few years ago yes she days he smashed it you can't really you know I like to. Know what happens they're going to put their performances timeless and what they're going to bring is something that nobody plays in the current industry so yeah I just. Have you ever seen Diana Ross perform like I have not my mom has. Studied I've probably seen all of the films that she has done but. I haven't seen. Because I'm guessing that must be a real the that's a way of getting the counted down in a way I suppose you've got to be really immersed in how Diana Ross looks and appears. And also she's changed very much over the years you know I stay Pull and mannerisms. So you know I just thought you had Johnny and I play. Age range from about 16 feet I like the late thirty's early forty's sorry for me it was important to understand how she was as a young supreme. Really glamorous diva that we will never allow freedom so it was right before just what we see now how's it been learning those various different characters I mean it's been at that my favorite part the trope if I'm honest with you I think it's more than just I'm not stage and play and one Broadway play about 4 different roles. And yet it's my favorite part because I get to be young and Kitty. And crazy and I get to be this you know in control. And control of Iraq by leaving my town. For $20000000.00 and also being on to the very quality which obviously wasn't a bad thing but it was important as a siren passed. I lost like it's Ok that's kind of on $20000000.00 is the terms a reasonable or reasonable trade deal. Is definitely a reasonable trade do great I'm one of the songs like how the how difficult are they to say and for me if that's probably the most difficult part because I don't actually sing much on a Ros I'm more. Of a deep it's kind and more. Kind of more of a Ross be tired by a day and I was very light and airy and I had to go so if I could listen to try and get that. It was important to not cause damage to myself because that did happen for a little while because I was fixate on. As much data as I can but then we all came to the conclusion it was more important to find a balance between Paris and Diana because it's you know it's you know I need to stay safe and well enough to do it all for needed a year and a half so yeah I think I kind of really good I don't now. Because we're not we're not imitation shy when our tribute show you know we just bring in the essence of all the characters and the statement in the White House story and kind of and just bringing that to life rather than just copying so yeah it was it was more than just copy and how she sounds you just have to kind of embody her keris Anderson playing the great Lady Diana Ross in the stage production of Motown the musical just discussing with me a little earlier about that incredible news that she's going to be what she's the 1st named act of glass to be 2020 the legends Sloss will be truly blessed with her presence on that Sunday morning you're listening to up all my here all 5 Live is 132. On digital b.b.c. Sound bigger than on various cities b.b.c. Radio 5 Live has got the headline says Tom mostly U.K.'s perhaps except for Terry will hold talks with the Hughes chief negotiator lights is after Boris Johnson and the Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said they could see a pathway to a possible deal after a very meeting yesterday. Says he hopes the media it's in response to Turkey's military action in northern Syria tens of thousands of people have already fled their homes. A teenager has been stabbed to death near an east London shopping center police found the 15 year old boy on Stratford Broadway yesterday afternoon and extinct extinction with rebellion activists have targeted London City Airport as part of their ongoing protest in the Capital One man climbed on top of a plane Police say this with dangerous and stupid sport I would Shabnam a cruel night in Rotterdam for Northern Ireland to hope to move closer to your 2020 qualification when this happened on 75 minutes tell us instead about he was. Was. However that lead against the Netherlands only lasted for 5 minutes before Memphis d.p.i. Equalise the Dutch went on to rip through the Irish defense and hearts and finished the match 31 when as the Northern alum manager Michael O'Neill says it's dosh the hopes of that there's nothing you can say to the players and of themselves the devastated in the dressing room the new significance of a point of saying we need significance of sleeping to as well but we come away with an awesome and we have to obviously just look to the final 2 games and try and get as much as we counted those 2 games and well side who are 3rd in the group have to win those games and rely on of the results to get through now well still have a chance of progressing after their 10 draw in Slovakia the 3rd in their group Scotland's hopes are hanging by a thread though after a 4 no hammering in Moscow Scott was the state I should shut up over at the end up . To be sure I shall get this type of guy the World Cup quarter final wish to Russia well they can't go through automatically now but have to try to qualify via the euro 2020 playoffs which they earned a place in after winning the nations League group England can confirm qualification tonight if they beat the Czech Republic they'll be all commentary match in 5 Live Sports a build up starting from 7 to the rugby world. Coppens Scotland head coach Greg townes and says he has faith in organizes but his team will be able to play that crucial much against Japan on Sunday 2 matches have been cooled off as a typhoon closes in and a decision will be made about Scotland's munch on Sunday morning it's only a one of the teams affected by the consolations they have a chance to qualify if they played and beaten New Zealand the head coach Conor O'Shea says players broke down and he is when they found out there was starting to be almost after all the work and sacrifice over the summer I know that America would have miracle much but we still have the opportunity to go out and God knows what happens in sport but also after all the shocker that these guys have made for the country to not be allowed to finish on the pitch to finish like this it's pretty hard to take and another incredible performance from Simone Biles at the world gymnastic championships in Stuttgart to see her extend all round world title record to 5 the 22 year old American is now one medal short of equalling Vitali Shabbos all time record of 23 will medals repeat one we're a little bit younger so I feel like I'm kind of aging like fine wine. So I can't be mad about it that's the latest from b.b.c. D.C.'s 5 lines Fridays from one on b.b.c. Radio 5 Live join me Ellis James and him John Robbins and for some top quality contests if you want to experience with 24 I was you could feel what it was like to be a wife leave you it would be a great room to say and sensory Madhura view the latest releases in come out of my ears from reviews this week of reviews of a poem the believe the day should come in gentlemen Plus our special guest Sienna Miller chatting about her new film American woman Alice James and John Robbins and film review this afternoon from one b.b.c. Radio 5 life pull it into the podcast available straight on to the show on the b.b.c. Sounds us this is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live available on the b.b.c. Sound up all night long with me Richard Foster until 5 now protesters in Ecuador don't. Things by Hobbs they've taken 8 police officers hostage as part of a protest against the removal of fuel subsidies in the country the offices were seized in the capital Quito and paraded before an angry crowd of the cultural center at least 5 people have been killed in more than a week of violent demonstrations in the country collagen Sollars is a reporter and Professor presenter for Telesur the color hair in churn through her having me that's all she remind us what exactly caused these protests and when they began. So we've been going for 8 days a straight of manifestation of indigenous people can be seen or when I say should students have taken over key to and waking the main cities in the country but they've mobilised across the country you have to remember that it whether being an indigenous country has a large population of indigenous people living there and they move playing self has become very important for a very various political decisions they have removed or put presidents in power in so they are large manifestation and they've come they've been protesting for all these days because their government arrived to an agreement with the i.m.f. It's one of the largest loans they've ever asked for the international organization which included several of a sturdy measures which they include in almost every country they go to so most of them the most important was the ones that they did as organizations were against were the ones they had to do with the gas subsidies because. Until then it had a subsidy for several products that came from gasoline we are one of the main exporters of gasoline in the world so we do have a large subsidy to that specific product and that makes the rest of the products in Ecuador and their bus fares everything around us become more expensive so they went and protested and they arrived. Sterile from their own indigenous organizations to Quito and since they saw the police repression we saw video of large police repression they took cover inside what called the gas of the liquid dollar which is a cultural organization a large cult organization and that they had food been taken them to them and they had to have children families there until yesterday when a several police men threw a tear gas inside that same or that I say Sion even though they said this was a humanitarian refugee for them and so of course we we know that a police officers have been taken hostage do we know how they are them the most are some concerns for their safety. They're fine and they stable spoke to 2 press to the press which in May It was a big confusion inadequate because their government had come out and said that the indigenous organizations had taken hostage this is a police man and one military which later took away they left the premises but they came in I spoke in front of the media and said they were not taking hostages that they were there because they wanted to but we also have to remember they were speaking in front of thousands of angry indigenous people that where they're listening to what they were saying of course they came out and say that they were protecting the people that they didn't want more violence but what happens is that the police are accused of being the main responsibles of killing at least 4 indigenous leaders in the country so they were very angry at them they show them to to media to everyone that was inside thousands of indigenous organizations that were inside that cultural house but they kept saying we are not against our will and the leaders kept asking them Are you who have you been taken against her will and they would say no and people started cheering and and shouting and even there was. Some more confusion because the media outlets that were there did us was also there our reporters and everyone as reporters kept saying that they were not taking either but the government kept saying that they that there were some reporters that were kidnapped or taken hostage for the time they were there is it the case that has the government trying to trying to come up with any sort of dialogue to try to talk try to end the protest So a member of the of the government not the president and not the minister minister of government which is will be the 2nd person in charge of this situation it came out and they said that they want the dialogue with the indigenous people only if they release the police and the reporters that were taken hostage inside this premises that's why they didn't arrest people came out and said we don't have them as hostages these are our house it is they are here because they want to help the community which was not confirmed or from either side. Of the question but now the government is saying that they have reached an agreement before that did they reach an agreement with the Indians are going to say shows that we're protesting and now they need us leaders are somehow divided into from the different regions in the in the country because we have the coast the Highlands and the Amazon rain forest so the indigenous people from all of those areas are very different in their social organizations and their political and stations as well so they have become divided and they say no we don't want to talk with the government we want to continue protesting the i.m.f. Leave the country no sign of a resolution just collagen Sollars reporter and presenter for tennis in Ecuador where the in those protests recently violent protests about the removal of fuel subsidies Well back here and after a week after generally an enthusiastic noises from the e.u. About the prospect of a breakthrough deal this is a sink change of tone over night. After that meeting between Boris Johnson and the Irish prime minister that Leo Varadkar his the t. Shirt making a statement Liverpool airport I'm sure you appreciate that this is a very sensitive issue and rather very sensitive stage at the moment so. I won't be able to go into too much detail I think sometimes this point in negotiations or discussions that I said the better but what I can say is that I had a very good meeting today with the prime minister and her teams together very positive and very promising I am now convinced that both are under Britain want there to be an agreement that's in the interests of arland of the United Kingdom and the European Union as a whole and I do see a pathway towards an agreement in the coming weeks. There are of course issues yet to be fully resolved the 1st is the issue of consent of democracy and shoring that any long term arrangement that applies to Northern Ireland has the consent of the people of Northern Ireland at the 2nd is the whole issue of customs ensuring that there is no cost and border between North and South. And also we do good discussion looking forward to how relationships might look after breakfast how we can strengthen cooperation north and south economically and politically and also between Britain and Ireland so next steps of course are for the United Kingdom government to engage with the European Commission we expect it will happen tomorrow but a meeting involving Steve barking in the show barn Yeah and also we'll need to consult and engage with the commission as well but what I would hope is that what's happened today would be sufficient to. Negotiations to resume in process so a more collegiate tone and that came after rather 2 hours of talks in Cheshire. Boris Johnson and both saying that they can see a pathway to a possible deal by the end of the month why that some optimism that well I've been speaking to the political editor of The Irish Times partly. He and Ireland correspondent Emma Valenti I began by asking Pat what his takeaways were from the meeting well what do we know definitely we know that the mood between the 2 leaders after they came out of their meeting was certainly an awful lot better than previously we know that where certainly where the Irish government was suggesting before and the deal was almost impossible they have come out of it saying that a pathway to a deal is now possible so those are the things we know definitively the sort of things I'm hearing around that are that there has been movement are there is indicated movement on the British side and if you look at the statements and what people said afterwards that seems to me to be the only way that progress is going to be achieved or this pathway to a deal as they call it could be opened up because the over occurs come out saying that they know there won't still satisfy that there is a deal there won't be any customs checks in Ireland that the Irish red lines won't be will be crossed by whatever deal emerges if that's what happens so if that is true then the breakthrough must have come from movement on the British side now I know that Downing Street is apparently pretty saying that this is very premature but at and there is at least as important a meeting to take place tomorrow in Brussels between Steve Barclay and Michel Barnier but it seems to me that it's pretty clear that something substantial has changed today whether that actually enables a deal we'll just have to wait and see when the negotiations re commence in Brussels but it certainly looks an awful lot more likely now than it did this morning they ever occur said the and as you said the agreement didn't breach his red lines. Just remind people what those red lines are path well they did the bottom line far the Irish government has always been to avoid checks any sort of border customs checks the island of Ireland and Thomas always being the stumbling stumbling block in these negotiations because if the u.k. Including the North is to leave the coast and union single markets then there is an external border and there's an e.u. External border on the island of Ireland and them and e.u. Law requires that there that there should be checks so it's sort of squaring that circle has always been the difficulty there's the related issue of that which has emerged in recent weeks of concern of storm and the storm and institutions consenting to any sort of different treatment because clearly if the rest of the u.k. Leaves the Customs Union single Marcus and there isn't to be checks on the island of Ireland then some sort of special arrangement special treatment is required far far the north and if that is to happen there will politically I think that there has to be some sort of consent mechanism for the North so. Whereby the North's political leadership would opt in or opt out of whatever arrangements are are contrived and that has also been another sticking bloc we no further information on that today but my guess is that we'll hear more about that in the coming days pow Why do you think that the body language in the tone today has been has been just so different so much so much more significant Well you know I'm always wary of interpret too much into body language of of leaders coming out of these things but I suppose it does it's not true that tells you nothing it does tell you something but I think what's important is to look at the actual this is to look at the statements by by the 2 leaders a joint statement of them agreed they were in there for we're told 3 hours together they were joined by advisors efforts some of that but a lot of us was at was one on one so they clearly has been. You know there clearly has been movement in the positions that they went into that meeting and because it . Whatever whatever else you can say about what has happened up until now but it would not have been possible for the 2 governments to issue that to issue that statement before this meeting so something has changed at this meeting if Lever actor is saying that Arlen's red lines are not going to be affected by us and we know they should we know that they have said you know nothing nothing beyond that they've given no details and what I'm hearing is that there may be a move on they maybe move on customs which would enable the north to leave the Customs Union but to apply you customs rules sort of an application of the of the joint customs idea that you will customs idea that Theresa May and violence more than a year ago and I think if there is a landing zone foreign agreement it's likely to be along those lines Emma Housel is going down in Northern Ireland tonight Well the key question is always you know how has this gone down with the Democratic Unionist Party because for Boris Johnson he needs to keep them on side if he has any hope of getting any eventual dale through the British Parliament I think. That was saying that yeah the positivity has largely come from because language and the interviews he gave after this meeting you know the case I'd have been playing down this one more now the key question really is if there has been some concession made behind the saves by Boris Johnson today what exactly does that entail because there have been some fundamental differences between the Irish and British sides in a way that they say it all gets very technical but one of the fundamental differences that the sides so far apart was that island has always had it doesn't want to. They consider any for border checks a toll of any kind wherever that done and Britain has been adamant that it needs to leave the customs territory and that means customs checks all some time and that has been such a difficult to bridge now if there is been some work around in the middle which might provide a way forward fundamentally it's going to have to continue to satisfy the day you pay that Northern Ireland is not big at extol from the rest of the k. And it will have to satisfy our island that enough is being done to continue to allow the sort of cohesiveness of north south trade to allow things to continue pretty much as they always have done at the moment it's still even after that positive language difficult to say how you reconcile those 2 sides but it's a very clever way has been found through the middle at the last moment then that would be a significant step forward but as you say very difficult to actually know what may have taken place so far so if the if the pathway is to enable more than on its leave the Customs Union but then apply customs rules is that something that the d.p. Could actually go food you think that's quite technical isn't it the fundamental principle for the pay is that Northern Ireland needs to be in a position where it can still benefit from any new trade deals that the u.k. Strikes off of the leaving the you and if Northern Ireland was to continue abiding by you customs rules the Massa chest it would be slightly tied into something that wouldn't have the independence that the rest of the u.k. Had and that would appear to breach or do you pay a red line if there's some technical way around it that remains to be seen but that's the fundamentals of it. Pat we know that Stephen Bach is making me see Michele Bania on Friday that's now again a very significant meeting what is it we can expect from that Ok so I think there's 2 things that can add that the e.u. Will have concerns about the 1st is that how a plan whether an application of Mrs May's joint customs area or whatever how any plan can work in in practical terms you know what would they how how they use concern would be how is its customers area its single market how is that protected by by the checks and if that is to end you know any Emma is exactly right in in much says it would seem that this proposal from what we can figure it out to be for right in all this it would seem that it crosses the d u P's red lines but bear in mind also I would have talks cross the d u P's red lines are what we are where we call to use red lines where to have a regulatory border in the Irish Sea but they signed up to that last week when when that was suggested as a way forward by far is Johnson so it may be that the d.p.s. Red lines are not perhaps as rigid as as had been previously envisaged sure maybe that they're looking at the best of 2 bad options Bush and we're going back to the meeting between Barney and see Barkley tomorrow I think but the side we want to know about is the practicalities of how this plan is applied and they will make a judgment whether that is realistic because their problem with alternative arrangements alternative ways of doing border checks which the British side have been talking about for a couple of years that the E.U.'s problems as always has always been we no objection to them they have said in theory but you must show us how it works in. To go terms and the British side has been unable to do that the 2nd concern I think that the e.u. Side will have and that I think will surface in those talks tomorrow is whether the British side can demonstrate that if there is a plan along these lines that it can get through Parliament because the e.u. As. Experienced as we all know before are agreeing a deal with Mrs May that couldn't get through Parliament and it's been one of the things that you hear all the time out of Brussels is that they're kind of once bitten twice shy on this so I think that the British government will have to be able to for once a new proposal to fly with Brussels and wants to extract concessions in return from Brussels it will have to demonstrate that this to the satisfaction of Brussels that this new plan this changes to the withdrawal agreement if that's what happens can get the assent of the House of Commons political editor the Irish Times Pat Leahy there speaking to me a little earlier along with Arlen correspondent Emma volume about the latest on breaks and that new found optimism that seems to me at the moment the Daily Express has Boris gone and done it I think is the headline this morning I'll take a look at the papers a little later on and indeed it was a short version of that interview we'll have a full discussion with Emma and pat a little later in the program and let's go to the states find out some of the stories making the Washington Post today. Pour I'm joins us by the desk and. Donald Trump's been on the phone to the Ukrainian president what's going on oh yes we got this late it's clear the story about what exactly happened soon after or before that the famous call on July 23rd but it's been Donald Trump and the kind of president of a lot of me there as a list. Of the results has tips but yeah actually spoke to him and he asked for a prayer at invention that his political rival Joe Biden. Actually harder today at least 4 people from the national security team and a wise ass who are present to her that calls where really alarmed about it at some of them actually complain to the National Security Council's legal advisor the White House even before the call and after the car saying that something is not right because in May They actually recall the u.s. Ambassador in care saying that she was not really doing what the president wants and transpersonal are really Giuliani actually said the president himself by. A one term want to they're out and it was revealed that maybe she wasn't really doing the going according to the plan that Giuliani was putting forward it care. And maybe it started right in there for the national security team was complaining and the day the full call was at 9 o'clock at in hours the they had the whole transcript in a very highly secure computer and for people and one after the other to talk to the legal advisor because they don't have an inspector general in the White House and we found out today they didn't come half an hour here about the arrest of 2 people who worked with Giuliani and collecting data on. Joe Biden in Ukraine and even though that was nothing to do with Giuliani or trump those guys actually were getting money the indictment says from foreigners presumably Russians or Ukrainian businessmen to pass on to political campaigns in the country did in in the campaigns but the ones who put that which worked with the supported guard Trump said they got about $325000.00 from disguise and they didn't touch them that put them in a separate account and they would go up there Congressman and not named but it was just mentioned Congressman one and. He also said we would give you enough money so we got to see different things coming out tomorrow and the ambassador was removed from Ukraine is supposed to be on Capitol Hill tomorrow so there'll be a lot of more drama going and it's all it's all very murky Desa cannon and all this happening while Mr Trump himself is another one of those make America great again rallies I can see him on t.v. Now is that right in the middle middle of Minneapolis which is the liberal territory and he's trying to rouse out some old drowned in the middle of them the liberals let's sleep we still sleep thanks so much today desk there and they are pouring that from the Washington Post while it started going up to 2 o'clock we're going to be getting all the American sports in the next hour with Mansfield and James Wickham stick around. For news and plainly for anyone at this c.d.c. Radio. And it's 2 o'clock on 5 Live I'm Richard Foster this is up almost from a Nissan 5 live fresh hopes of a brac that day and installed a harsh defeat for Northern Ireland the Knights of crucial Euro qualifying. This is b.b.c. 5 live with the b.b.c. News on 5 Live Here's Lisa McCormick thanks Richard more on the backs of the secretary Steven Barclay will meet the chief negotiator in Brussels later with hopes of reaching a day apparently on the rise yesterday Boris Johnson and his Irish con Department overanxious said they could see a pathway to a possible agreement following talks by Lee He is the Irish Times political editor but the e.u. Side will want to know about is the practicalities of how this is applied they will make a judgment whether that is realistic because their problem with alternative ways of doing border checks which the British side of me talking about for a couple of years that he used problems albeit with no objection to them but you must show us how it works in practical terms Donald Trump suggested he could mediated a between Target attack in Kurdish forces in northern Syria and the thousands of people have fled their homes as targets troops capture villages in the border area the president says the u.s. Could also step in militarily or impose more sanctions and response our correspondent in Washington is Chris Butler I think the fact that we've in the house him tweeting 3 different options give you a sense of the White House is struggling to find a strategy a clear strategy to deal with all of this because it is still friendly North of these suggestions that in some why President Trump gave a green light to this in the northern Syria by withdrawing American troops from the border area a teenager has been stabbed to death in east London police play the 15 year old was either attacked on a bus or shortly after getting off at Stratford Broadway no arrests of the night attacks and. Man accused of killing $22.00 people in a shooting at a shop a model of El Paso in August has pleaded not guilty Patrick Chrysis is facing a charge of capital murder and could face the death penalty if he's convicted on a group of M.P.'s is calling for free t.v. Licenses to be restored to all over 75 year olds and for the government to partly funded the says it can't meet the cost except for those in pension credit beyond 2020 the media select committee says the situation is absurd some of the support on your shop know the island's hopes of euro 2020 qualification have been dealt a blow as they went down to a late 31 defeat by the Netherlands in Rotterdam fans in green were given hope when they took the lead through substitute Josh McGuinness on 75 minutes but Memphis De Paulo soon equalized and the Dutch added a couple more to seal their way in the result means Northern Ireland are now 3rd in the table and need to win their final to qualify as and rely on other results well types of qualifying is still alive after their want to draw with Slovakia the Welsh a 3rd in that table with a game in hand Scotland's hopes of progressing automatically all over after they were thrust for know by Russia in Moscow they've still got a chance through the Euro playoffs because they won their nations late great England to a top of their group can qualify tonight if they beat the Czech Republic will have commentary of the game here on 5 Live and 22 year old American Simone bille says it means the world to win a record 5th the women's all round title at the world gymnastics championships in Stoke got this space b.b.c. Radio 5 Live on digital b.b.c. South small street come up with a quick look at the weather Claudia what for most of us that when either moved into Friday will be grey and overcast with rain across much of England and Wales heavy in the soil for some shows in Scotland Northern Ireland and average highs but 16 Celsius labeling schools. Radio 5. Percent should sit in the sun at least a sofa in the simply crappy sign up for the traffic jam. The box is Lindsay seems to finally want her published papers close enough.