Famous family they called dashing clan in 2015 and finally came out as a transgender woman in this episode we discuss some of the lessons Caitlin has learned throughout the incredible journey we talk about the importance of honesty and Big true to yourself and your family around you about not judging a book by its cover someone who apparently has it all may well be suffering inside we discuss the importance of hard work and why you've got to have a sense of humor about life and why it's all about the challenges you have become not the heights you would tank we recorded this episode often time with the school at Kaitlyn's house in Malibu in Los Angeles it really was a pleasure spending time with Caitlin she was warm welcoming friendly and funny and her message about the importance of being honest to ourselves is a lesson relevant to each of us. Caitlin Jana I'm here how are you you know what I'm doing great thank you for asking how are you doing yeah I'm pretty good thank you i go either way I have to ask a question because everybody from the u.k. Named Simon there's a lot of I know I know I know I know Simon Callow know where you every time I'm running into somebody I don't know if it's where they said we're next time you said it's becoming less common this bit old school but yeah I think there was a peer you're at the end of an era that's it Ok. Thank you very much for having us my pleasure I mean it's not London. You know there's the ocean and we've got the mountains it looks actually quite nice now but as you probably saw even over there we had fires come through here and I stayed until about a minute before it hit because it was coming up that canyon drive so intensely tornadoes 200 feet in the air flames coming. At the last 2nd I always stay with the House because the big fire goes through so quickly to stay in the house for that goes through and I looked at that and I said. You know what if it burns it burns I'm outta here so we went down the hill and videotaped it and it was pretty frightening but it didn't affect the house well there was about $300000.00 worth of damage I said little bit in that pool there had to be probably close to 15 dead rats dead dead Rapids So I mean everything had to house had to be sanitized it was it was a mass you know a lot of the things on the outside you know what it looks pristine now you've got you know various trophy sales so you'll get this world record was the fastest ever to form a 1000000 Twitter followers and I think 4 hours and that was it 3 minutes or something like that that you know who I beat I think I did Barack Obama Barack Obama you're a good yeah I've been doing more research this is a very good sign Weiss good start for this interview book and I'm glad we're off on the on the right foot so it's fair to say you've had an interesting life while yes when you I have the great double Olympic Kathlyn champion and glamorous woman of the year I hope nobody ever has to go through that in their lives please. But yes it has it's been quite a journey quite a journey Entergy interesting perspective as I look out on life and all the things that I've done. But there was. You know I'd give speeches and talk about the games I would stand up there. And look at the audience and just think Will I ever be able to tell my whole story I has so many more things going on in my head things that I was dealing with that. I was hoping at some point in my life I would be able to tell that story and now I've been able to do that and we're going to recap Ok a lot of it today and then try and dissect the lessons because you learn a lot I'm sure I've been fine no more over the course of a life that is relevant obviously to you to the trans community but just people generally as well and I think you know you've been through a lot of change but one thing that's clearly remained constant what you could walk in the middle here real fear it will mean that anyway go on one thing that's remained constant sense of humor. You know what if if you don't have a good sense of humor about life. And about people and about all the things that goes on around you I think it's a pretty dull life I love to laugh I love to look at the fun side of things. And just recently I did Alec Baldwin's roast and I knew when I signed up for it that I was would be a target and boy I was a bigger target than Alec Baldwin and it was his roast so. But all the response from people how well I took it as a not because I love to laugh I don't take myself seriously you know I mean there are serious things that I do but I don't take myself seriously and. And I think that's important in life and I think it's important that we smiled We laugh we enjoy life hey it's short you know we're here more gong Yeah so enjoy it absolutely great mantra now Ysaye you've spoken about those 2 days in Montreal but you know what I have brought the some people have brought that up in my life yes I have that's about it and I'm going to bring it up again but also the thing is it's not just those 2 days you know the run up to the games as well but also there's a new generation of people who perhaps are aware that you know you wouldn't be champion but don't realize what went into it when it took place the relevance of it how it to me stands Riah the top in the pantheon of great Olympic achievements so it's a key point your story and it's always you know the whole story but. We're going to we're going to do that we're going to cover a lot but the best place to start obviously is at the beginning when you're young you struggle with dyslexia now then we talk about gender dysphoria not being well understood now and certainly not then but even dyslexia at that time was not well understood all into they didn't even have a name for it back that the bigger problem was not being dyslexic The bigger problem is self-confidence. New you think you're. Not smart that simple process is not working like it does with everybody else you lose interest in school . You kind of you know go hide and that was more me I didn't want anybody to know I had the problem I can remember somebody you know some psychologists giving it or being or dyslexic my 1st impression is when I got to get a dollar I didn't know it would sound so terrible so that really hit your self-esteem then that the slowest time made it yes and that's why in 5th grade we had a running race in gym class out in the parking lot we had to run around all these chairs and they timed every kid in school and I wanted up having the fastest time in the whole school and everybody's coming up and saying you know I didn't know you were that fast and everybody's give me a pat on the back and I beat everybody in school I wasn't getting that in the classroom so you had a states a sort of a sudden and so all of a sudden I kind of go what's this thing called sports and that's where kind of it all started and this is the 5th grade so how what how old is that because we done in the u.k. So $1011.00 yeah somewhere in there and this is around the same time that you'll drill into your mother's clothes as well. Peoples suffering from gender dysphoria they basically you're born that way just like your right handed or your left handed you know it it's kind of just who you are so Ok there's diversity in the world I think it's great all all humans aren't the same you know and that's good especially if you know growing up in the fifty's in the sixty's you don't understand those tendencies you don't understand why and but yeah I used to sneak in there and try stuff on and do this and that go out I just felt comfortable doing it I was just afraid I was going to get caught that's all you know did you have a sense of shame around that as well. I did shame because obviously I didn't tell anybody so but back then nobody knew anything about it and I didn't know anything about it you know being dyslexic gender dysphoric you know these types of things going on in my life kind of struggling in school a little bit that's what made me who I was later on down the line because for me when I got into sports. It became. More important for me personally to succeed at sports and to work part of sports because of all these issues they say success is not measured by how to tain but by obstacles overcome is going to quote that to you later but yet mostly I beat you to it. If you read the book they read they do so you excelled in various sports but college she fell for the decathlon and you burst onto the scene in 1972 you won even expected to make the u.s. Team in 7 it's not even close you know my name like 20 seconds in the 1500. Actually yes baby beach Steve got off by 2121 the 2nd I can't it's uncertain so the figures I had to beat him by 18 seconds to make it into 3rd place and I ran an 8 2nd personal best time that one race changed everything in my life that was the 1st time I had to dig down really deep and come up with a performance right at that moment I always knew if it came down to the 1500 metres the last event I would run any time I had to to win 72 Munich Olympics right so you came 10th and I was happy with that you have very very bad that you're only 22 at the time but then you say there was that click moment so if was in a Soviet of Nicholai of it off yet all right he won the gold in 72 and when he stepped up on the podium you had that decision it wasn't a dream is to write I'm going to get on an ever fair well I was never obviously been to Olympic Games before I go there it's overwhelming how big it is I had never seen an Olympic gold ceremony live happening right in front of me but I basically said to myself I'm watching this my heart's pounding you know what I'm watching this and I just go you know what I never expected to get this far. But what if I take the next 4 years of my life and every minute of every day I test myself just to see how good I can become at this Ok I'm going to do this for 4 years if I can't do it in 4 years I'm not going to do it in 8 years yeah so there was finality for me in that 4 year period I had an end I could give up everything else I was living on $145.00 a month apartment driving a $63.00 v.w. Bug I paid $175.00 for and training my butt off and I train 68 hours a day every day I started that night at midnight Yeah I couldn't sleep pounding the streets of Munich Brown on the streets in Munich I couldn't sleep I was so pumped up I was more pumped up after the competition was over with because it was so clear in my head I would do 70 mile weeks in the offseason and I'd be running along and sometimes that have to do it at night obviously would be in my head because I knew if I'm running at night it's his morning so he's probably out for a morning workout I'm still running here on the other side of the world and I would think to myself you know what I'm not making a dime doing this Ok At best you've got a gold medal said at the at the end of the rainbow not even real gold Ok what it symbolizes is everything but it's you know there's no material reason if you win the gold it doesn't mean you're going to get a job or it doesn't mean you're going to do this for that after it's over with it's a medal. But I thought I felt like I was so rich inside because I was so motivated every day and I thought to myself I never want to lose that in my life I never want to wake up in the morning and kind of dread the day you know I always want that enthusiasm for life when I get out of bed in the morning and there has been times in my life since then that I have just totally lost it yeah I mean I spent 6 years in a house down here because I didn't really want to come up as I never felt like I fit in anywhere. And there's been a lot of dark days since then and I always think about those times what am I going to do to make this day exciting I want to live this day and only get so many up Ok So 76 I put in the context I forget rocky for Sylvester off against the vendor I go yeah the Russian machine I mean you really were up against the Russian machine so you're an amateur because of the communist system of that sign they essentially were professionals and this is also it's almost at the bison center of America it was the height of the Cold War sport was a metaphor for war and you decided that you know you were going to compete again if 76 all the pressure was on the in terms of what it meant to you and what it meant when else in the pressure you under I mean it's mind boggling I was nervous coming here to chat to you it's you know I was reminding myself as you should be. Yeah the games in $76.00 were actually very special it was kind of the last year of the amateur athlete it was the highest rated Olympic games of all time and will always be because there was no cable t.v. No cable t.v. That actually was the reason it works 70 percent of the u.s. Population was watching the games there was so many American flags inside that stadium so I think half long you say it's all about you know the into no. Because it's all about hitting p.b.s. Way you like trying to hit you so I was 100 made his 1st event p.b. Then I knew it was over I ran 1094. At 9 o'clock in the morning I didn't tell anybody because I didn't want it to come off you know it was my little secret but inside I said it's over it's done just don't make a mistake long jump p.b. Shot yet again the finger that very good hair then little tendon right there so you had to be trained so I really didn't practice at that you know the shot on the day you had like to haue with the 3rd and final throw you know put that little figure right there who cares I don't need this thing here in 2 days Ok put it where it's supposed to go and let's just get back to me I didn't let it go and yeah I had a personal best high jump next personal best kind of out of role you've I mean even attempt by the way I don't believe the ball go and then the 400 meters so Fred Thompson who was on the American scene with you right he said he normally used to be you in the 400 and they stay you came burning out of the corner absolutely took them apart so if want to call I ran that race in my head for 4 years and my whole year of training was to pee on that day take off accelerate as fast as I can to get to my pace relax go down the back stretch. At that pace don't lose it stable Relax relax relax relax relax go go go go go and as soon as you hit that turn go and I couldn't see anybody around me was going to look back I didn't care it's only my time I'm trying to get and I kept waiting for somebody to go to your home you know and nobody did the whole way I got to the finish line and I wanted to run 475 and I ran 4751 you practiced in your mind and then produced it exactly as you planned it I consider the competition 80 percent of mental challenge. Ok 20 percent of physical challenge training is 80 percent physical 20 percent mental You just do it do it don't even think about it do it do it train train physically once you get in a competition the works all done now it's just let the mind let it happen said they want you knew is in the bag you didn't sleep a huge amount that night you know you didn't last it rained so did that no one could see the next events the hurdles on day 2 of course I was petrified of that yet rained all night poured all night long wake up the next morning look out it's not raining but it's solid overcast clouds are touching the top of the stadium tracks wet from the rain the night before a couple of flights in front of me Fred Dixon one of the other Americans in good friend great person slept. Down he went in the hurdles Oh oh. What a great 1st day oh I want to do survive I don't even care what my time is Ok I just want to live through this but when I read it I just stayed on my toes stayed on those bikes and just the little girl got down there lean at the tape and I had such a sigh of relief. That I got this think I want to get Ok I made it through the night I made it through the hurdles the last 4 events are my best events so you wrote through the discus the Polvo What's your favorite venue Jeff it's a 1500 the last event the last one you a crying before the race sets off I was going pretty cheery because it was the last 11500 meters of my life to me that the 15 or meters always represented the decathlon how tough you are a lot of guys don't run it that fast or run it maybe fast once and then they know now I don't want to run it you know to me that's a weakness. And it's the ultimate test you've been out there for 2 days you've been on your feet competing for 20 hours and now they want to run a 1500 meters you know the metric mile for time the last thing in the world you want to do Ok your legs are kind of dead. But to me that's when it all came alive so the 1500 meters cardiovascular I was just more gifted that way at this one which was going to be my last 15 or metres I was certainly not going to run it slow Ok I didn't run 70 miles a week to run the 1500 meters slow Ok but on the other hand I had already won it I was in the lead going in and if I just had I didn't even have to run my best time just a good time I would go over 8600 points because I want to be the 1st guy to do that and then walk away and so I decided I'm going to go out kind of slow and then pick the pace up on the 3rd lap and then at $300.00 metres to go just. What have you got left wide open and if you watched the video soon as I look and see the time it was one second slower than my fastest time ever at that point in the race with 300 meters to go I said here. Put it in the next here and says well get down the back stretch as hard as I could and I said remember as you come off the term with the last 100 meters to go remember what that looks like because it's going to be over with in just a 2nd I remember that coming off the turn more than I remember the finish line you know and then just booked in down that finish line as hard as I possibly can. As I get to the finish line I put my hands up in the air and I just said remain as loud as I could and I kind of stumbled to a stop and the 1st thing went through my head was you blow it Ok 972 like you saw that in that video and 10 for gold when I crossed the finish line in the 1500 meters there was some German photographer took a picture black and white actually of me crossing the finish line in the 1500 meters and the hairs kind of back you've got this look on your face you're looking up at the sky the muscles are rippling I got the line Ok right between my legs to the finish line of the 1500 meters the stride is out there this is like a gazelle going across the finish line as court is shot Ok one of these awards so he sends it to me and I hang it up and my $145.00 a month apartment but when I hang it up I don't hang it up above the couch I hang it off to the side of the couch why because I want room right there for that picture Ok so for 3 years I had it up there of 1976 that's where that one's gone I want that the line right between my legs I want the same picture Ok of me finishing the 2 games. And so I had this empty hole in the wall for years I'd look up at visualize that you know and then I get there what I went to I put my hands up in the air I'm screaming loud I'm stumbling to a stop I said that was not the picture I was suppose I visualized what my project was going to be like at the finish line and it didn't turn out that way and so I'm thinking then I as I'm slowing down I'm thinking ah that's close to good you just won that game I felt like kind of running back and take another picture. Like that that was my 1st thought and then the 2nd thought was soon as I'm slowing down I don't think that's really stupid think about the stupid picture this guy starts bumping into me 2 security guards are on top of him I guess he had jumped the fence and came running out on the field and he's got an American flag in his hand Ok So obviously he's trying to give me the American flag as the 2 security guys are dragging him or I So anyway take his flag and at that time nobody did flags at the finish line nobody you know and so I've got a camera in my face just about where that camera is and I'm thinking Ok why do I do with the fly I'm very patriotic I love my flak I'm very patriotic but is it too hot talky you know is it too much to put the flag out and I didn't know what to do with it so. Ok I got to put it up this is our country's bicentennial year everybody's got a flag Ok I got to put the flag so I take it once I put it up in the air hold it up there for a few seconds bring it back down the whole crowd goes crazy I go oh I've got to work but I know that was a good response. And so went a little bit further and one other time kind of threw it up in the air and then I thought Ok now what I'm going to do is I think it's too much if I take your little victory lap with the flag I'm going to roll the flag up and put it in my back so I rolled it up and I put it in my bag so I actually didn't take the victory lap with the flag I just had it at the finish line but that was the picture so there you all in this wonderful moment Boskin the co you get a gold medal next day you know that and the thought is in your head what next and it does just what next the thought next morning because I still had all these issues and a lot of the training and it was really running away from a lot of the issues I had. And I remember getting up the next morning I didn't have a stitch clothes on walking to the bathroom metal sitting there on the table but the metal around my neck look in the mirror and go what have you just done you know I mean it's great what if you just don't and I stuck with this person the rest of my life that you build up this character so big that you're stuck with them for the rest of your life you know and you know there was so much more to me so many other things that I was dealing with . I was scary you know that maybe I'm stuck with him now and he's with you with gender dysphoria you've spoken to your 1st wife Christie about it in 73. So this is being you know some in the shed with other people now so off to the Olympics of us we know about the with the Wheaties which is big here is not big in the u.k. So you you know you were the face of this serial breaking new ground just like you did with the flag breaking new ground the sky on the way to endorse products and you in a I mean incredible hot property so there was some really nice quotes that one was going to do it from memory roughly a brother used to last roughly going to me so I'm so high up on the pedestal to take a crane to get you off the Hollywood handsome all these kind of things I mean crash rated screen test for Superman knowing all this guy almost got the job I don't know if I wanted to do it I thought it was too big or you know here I was suffering from all the issues I was having and talk about a strong man image going out and winning the games and going from that of playing Superman that was a I think a little bit too much macho for me so you didn't make it a c. From b. Did make it a murder she wrote I Used To Love Murder She Wrote and you were in an episode of murder she was a did a bit of acting you were doing some sports reporting I guess you would call a sports Goss's is called in America and people liked your relaxed style you know you could with people that kind of thing but you said then at that point you know when the work started to head south a little bit you know and you said you didn't know whether the work drying up brought the gender dysphoria forward or the genitals for made the work dry of. Gender Dysphoria. To be honest with you you you struggle more with yourself than things on the outside Ok. It's always with you it's just how you're going to handle it what's right for me a lot of people suffer from all kinds of things. And clued in gender dysphoria and what's best for them and everybody does it differently some at a very very very young age say sorry mom you know. You keep calling me you know she but I'm actually I mean he do you know you know. And identified a very very young age. And others that because of life's circumstances they're dealing with it but they can deal with it Ok for me I could deal with it Ok I had to sneak around a lot. You know not be honest with myself and a lot a lot of other people not so much my immediate family but other people. Oh yeah I had my own ways of just getting through it the best I can and certainly over the years dove into family my family was by far the most important and the best part of the whole thing and I want up pretty much raising 10 children. I'm currently I found out my son is pregnant there's widespread nurse reference for it with twins so coming up on 20 grandchildren Oh yeah big family but. My family by far was you know kind of my backbone the but the eighty's were a tough period few. Eighty's really said maybe I didn't have a didn't have that big family around and you said you spent 6 is in some way not many miles from here and in a way you basically just kept yourself to yourself and you talked about like gender dysphoria at that point being all consuming and then it just being in your head 247 so what's what is that what was that experience like that in the eighty's of being consumed by this and how did you come I had dealt with it for so long but I had never faced it. Ok so did you start in the eighty's Oh yeah I thought I was going to transition before I was 40 and I thought you meant Trudy again so yeah Dr Hill Trudy hill and started. First time I ever went to a therapist. And it was scared to death my 1st one and then you know she was great she dealt with things like this and it was great because I could open up I did strong hormones I was on hormones for over 4 years with the electrolysis things like that somewhat of the apparent started to change some That's when you know the rag started it in this started and you know all the rumor rumor rumors started Ok so eighty's a tough time and then you decide you know you can go through the transition onesies as we know you could actually need is and Chris saving you and then you raise a family and that was you know your life a 20 year old is and then well to see the kids grow up you know you didn't your marriage with Chris breaks down not for reasons because of the gender dysphoria and then you come to that point we think Ok now is time so what we went through so much we actually will Chris and I went our separate directions it wasn't for me to transition or do any of that and it was just our relationship every relationship changes Ok and the hardest thing in any relationship long term relationship as people change do you change together or do you change apart you know and for us we changed apart and there was no argument there was no nothing we did our divorce agreement on one day it was we both know it was the right thing to do and yeah we're on you know good terms that day but there I was back out in Malibu and still got all the tabloid rumors going crazy and this and that and there I was out Malibu I had tabloid guys following me everywhere. God I had taking secret cars to get out of the property because I had to come out one gate and they would you know 2 or 3 and be sitting out there and start following you I would try to outrace in through the hills. I did everything so was there just a tipping point then was there a point then when you allow Ok. Ok that's that's Did I got back into therapy I did get back on hormones so I'm with my therapist and were thinking Ok You know what's the answer here is there and is there any good answer you know but there's got to be an answer here so I started with every one of my kids now all of the kids have heard all these rumors actually got caught by Cam once you know Kendall and Kylie I didn't know I got caught but they said they snuck around a corner or something I don't know I was president whatever Ok which is not good to do with kids anyway but they all knew when they certainly had seen all the tabloids with me every week you know and but it was the little subject we never nobody ever talks they know and nobody's going to talk about it Ok it's a big secret so anyway start with Brenda bring over said Ok and his mother had told him my issues years earlier and he said this to me and he goes you know what dad of 4 he's been proud that you're my father he says I go to the airport and I head to my id and it says Brandon Jenner and they say oh he's your father Bruce Jenner and brand of Oh yeah and they say ah you know he comes through all the time he's always so nice and then and that he goes just every place I go I always get that kind of reaction and I've always been just so proud to be your son he goes but I've never been more proud of you than I am right now and that kind of started off with the kids I thought that was a good start hope it stays that way. And so I slowly went through all 10 kids one of the time I really didn't even know if I would actually be able to transition and live my life that way but that was a possibility I told them that is a possibility Ok I'm not going to say yes I'm not going to say no I still got a lot of figuring out to do the last person I had to talk to was my pastor and I am a person of faith I'm thinking God you gave me all these great qualities there's athletically this and that but you know took a little chuckle before he finished this is all of this is going to be a fun to watch Ok and say you know let's come up female brain and all this stuff and you know let's see how he deals with this and like throw a little Bruce out into the world that way you know like a big joke used to think that and so that was kind of the last person I had to talk to as my pastor that he had seen all the stuff but he never really we had sat down and talked about it and we sat for 3 hours talking about faith talking about God talking about everything that I had been going through and you know he basically said God loves you and he's going to love your decision doesn't know what it's going to be. He back to all the way because you often think when I go up to the pearly gates you know and I'm sitting there and I stand in front of them and you know I said Well how did I do what is his answer going to be you know the next day I was up and just went for a walk through this open field and thought to myself you know what maybe this is the reason God did put me on this earth at this time at this place in society because even back in the eighty's I could not have done this Ok now things were different. People who had come forward especially in the public eye you know the people like Laverne Cox or Janet Mock or other trans people had come by I who are intelligent smart articulate and I thought maybe I can add myself to that conversation could I make a difference so and so that's what that's and I thought you know what you know the worst thing that can happen is you transition everybody hates your guts and say oh but it's stupid weirdo but I can live with that. If I'm going to do it and I want to make a difference and what a great opportunity when you're playing in the 4th quarter of life to make a genuine contribution to understanding in society and you have made a difference there's no doubt in terms of moving the conversation on so you being in well I mean they know your life but you've been publicly Kate in for 4 years have them almost 5 years but almost 55 years in that time you've definitely moved the needle forward in sun as a some sation I know you've struggled in some parts with some of the reaction the you've received from people within the trans commune it's really you have said many times you're doing this for yourself obviously you're doing it to make a difference you can't satisfy everybody not of course not see yeah I mean there's a lesson there backset sense in being judgment so isn't that absolutely the 1st thing you have to do is be true to yourself my life today is so simple Ok you think oh my God Well it does take me longer to get ready in the morning Ok after that and I do have now 2 bags instead of one back to travel Ok I get it Ok but that's kind of the fun part having the ability to just wake up in the morning and be yourself all day long. Not too many people can do that or say that that they can just be themselves all day long and that is the most that that's what I the most important thing that I've gotten out of all of this I don't have to sneak around anymore I don't have to have to save cases one for him one for her when I go to a speech you know and then worry about what security's going to say if they look into the other one I mean all of these thing sneaking around not being honest with people you know and that's something that your kids in particular said Isn't it like they appreciated the fact the on a stage now and that's what I mean that's what this comes about he says that modesty in their lives and he spoke earlier about the importance of big being a role model and honesty is absolutely intake Oh yeah yeah and so all of those things just the personal stuff but when you you know you you trade one set of circumstances for another certainly trans people in this society in the United States I mean we have huge huge issues. And yet we lose a trans women of color one every 2 weeks in this country to murder you know I mean every 2 weeks trans whims of color is murder and this is like a suicide rate is 9 times higher than the general public job discrimination housing discrimination you name it we've got it I've heard that 25 percent of all prostitutes are trance women and it's a survival crime for them you know they can't get work anyplace else and so this is a cash job yeah but tremendous issues so when's issues like clothes on and on and on when the transgendered or some of the transgender community would be outside with a megaphone you know you've done represent me which you did experience then how does that leave you feel and you can you kind of that I How does it make you feel well obviously it's hurtful if anybody you know who. Doesn't even know you has this perception of me and what I am so from that standpoint it does hurt the other standpoint. From my Personally I don't take any of that if you look at hate stuff on Instagram and all that kind of stuff sometimes I'll read it I think it's pretty funny for me I just want to kind of do my thing I want all the other trans people out there to use their platform and they all have special and social media to it they all have a platform and now their platform is different than my platform I want to take my platform and use it for good to make change in the world that's what I've done I've just taken my platform and what I do in the celebrity world and this and that. To try to make it better hasn't been easy not even close and I'll say it has not been easy I've raised between Makka and my foundation about 2600000 dollars given away to trans organizations a lot of them when they get the money they're extraordinarily appreciative of it but then other hands you know they're having their big fundraiser and say Oh please don't show up you're too controversial. And I go. I'm like the most least controversial person in life Ok I mean I'm just want to love everybody and so yeah that makes it kind of difficult so you're making a big contribution but I want to talk about some of the lessons that unlike the uvula Ok it's about the male athlete genda Ok like these stereotypical sports the guy who takes far as women so he made me think you know we all have a from that weight. Now. You know I played the role of the sports hero you know the big sports guy it was me I mean it was part of me and there was a lot of other things to me but it was part of me. I think one of the people one of the reasons why people have a hard time dealing with myself today and what I've been through over the last few years is that you gave up the ultimate white male supremacy that you had athletic the way all that sort of stuff Ok you gave up all of that Ok to go what society perceives I certainly don't believe this but what the scientists perceives as a weak female females are looking to being physically weaker you know sort of looking to be emotionally weaker and all these campuses Why would you give up all that male privilege Ok to go over to a week you know 1st of all male privilege wasn't me number one number 2 this was this was me over here and I can I can deal with those types of things and I believe in probably more and women that then they believe in themselves because I didn't grow up with all of. The things that they had to grow up with you know being put down to being weaker or being waiting to be asked out on a date instead of just going out and getting the damn feet you know I didn't deal with any of that kind of stuff so I think I look at women and women hood in a much different way today than most women and I think that that's a good thing Ok privilege I understand that you know well you know I think I want to see it but that does not mean that inside someone is not in serious pain and someone with privilege might be more pain than someone who doesn't have a quote unquote privilege totally agree with that I totally agree with that yes simplistic is I've always had privilege of always you know. Been male for a long time why I came from a middle class very middle class family but I live in this great country where you have the opportunity to grow up to be what you want to be and I took that privilege and ran with it literally into the games won did all those types of things yes everything I've done in my life I've worked for and I beat this into my kids' heads Ok nobody's going to give you anything Ok Anything you want in life you have to work for another one is I'm sure you know don't judge a book by a cover because there you are is this I mean. Someone who everyone. Looked as having everything but inside you are in a lot of pain up there and it's very easy to look and judge people and think. How lucky they Yeah I know it's it's exactly I mean I yes I was given a lot of things and lived a very good life but I had so much I was so empty inside you know and sometimes you have to do that. You know when life but at some point you've got to take care of yourself. You gotta take care of yourself 1st and if any lesson I've learned trying to take care of yourself 1st even though there's other sets of circumstances that I have to deal with today that are different than they were 5 years ago. The bottom line is my life is so much better today because I'm honest with myself and I've taken care of myself Ok and that's the most basic thing and that's the most important thing is to take care of yourself 1st because you can achieve anything in life you've proved that literally you mean you've reached the absolute pinnacle but the real treasure in life is in all honesty and peace of mind absolutely absolutely no i have a lot of peace of mind now yeah sure there's other issues I have to deal with new issues such as horns were always going to have issues Ok it's how you deal with them life itself which comes back to that quote fuels was now you know it's not it's not the heights you're achieve it's the obstacles you have a come down that's exactly right where you able to take any of the lessons from from the Olympics that helps you win it transitioning and all that self-confidence Yeah and I can take on the world physically and kick there but I can take on the world here Ok I mean obviously that is part of your core part of what you do so yes some of the qualities now a different set of circumstances different sets of techniques. But yeah I can I I would like my legacy to be that I made a difference you know my existence on this earth I tried to make a difference. Not only inspired a lot of people athletically because I get phone you know stuff even today I still get stuff I get stuff yesterday I was looking at Gee. How you inspired people because of that performance and then the same thing as the day at the grocery store the sleepy quarter me for 20 minutes talking about her life and all the things that she's been through and the kids and then as and that how much it Mars you and what you've done obviously what I've done had an impact on her she was very sweet very very nice but from a standpoint I would you know when it's all said and done I would like to have made somewhat of a difference in society in life what made what means more to than making a difference through transitioning him being you know being paid and being an example and putting yourself on a pedestal to help other people raise themselves up or you are a live picture on. I think it's pretty much a combination of 2. But I would have to put. My identity as higher on it 1st of all it was tougher to do you know I train for 12 years for the games I train 65 years to transition in 1000 you know and 2015. And it was harder to do it was less accepted it wasn't like the right thing to do everybody loved the games what a great story love the games but a lot of people when they see you transition you know will hate your guts look at look at sometimes the quotes on Instagram and that is just people I don't take social media seriously but it is pretty funny what they'll come up with. And. And so by far that was a lot more difficult I didn't want to disappoint people you know she has they had you up on this pedestal so it was not an easy easy decision to make too but eventually I made it because I knew that's what I had to do to live so and in doing so you've helped other people that if you were to go back then to just if you could travel back in time to just off to the 76 you know what would you say to you having just won the gold medal don't change a thing I have my life I've lived it I wouldn't change a thing the games were great fun I learned a lot about myself reach great heights inspired other people with that. After that I got to work in the business which for me was very very interesting kind of in the entertainment world a lot of fun stuff great stuff. Honestly married 3 times they were all good women. In particular a the last 123 years we were aged an amazing family I hope I was a good parent a good father not as good with some as I was with others because of the circumstances. But I tried to spread myself out as much as I could. And. Yeah then finally after raising all these kids. It was time for me it was time for me to figure myself out and move on with my life and fortunately I had a family behind me that would support me yeah and so I could move on and then picks the next year 202020 now you all of a cool. Person he speaks for. Trans rights was he what's your view as they see then consider what to do with in terms of. Transgender people who live in peace or should they. I think they should do exactly what they are doing. The Olympic organization is the only organization who has seriously taken this issue or taken this issue seriously for many many years back when I was competing the women had to take saliva test. To make sure they were genetically male Ok. Actually 76 I even question some of Michael cock I had it a discus thrower lifting next to me in my last lifting workout before in the village before the Games and she out lifted me describe was so much stronger than I was on the phone oh my God I've got to get out of this gym but chicks are out lifting me anyway. We have taken that issue very seriously. Throughout the Olympics and throughout it has changed because we're dealing with athletes from all over the world Ok and we have been drug tested identity tested out for the last 40 something years almost probably 50 years so they have the most information on it Ok recently they have come up with standards for trans people and it's not just for transcript will also people. Who. Basically were born with you know both sex they've had a few cases like that. And what do they do now I mean everybody deserves a right to be able to compete what do they do now and so they started coming up with hormone levels that you can have and this and that So now transfer people can compete I know we got one female to male athlete that has nobody has made an Olympic team yet Ok but a female to male athlete that's world class triathlete. They had other issues come up they had a sailor who was a sailor and he had testicular cancer lost both his testicles and he had to take testosterone shots all of a sudden now he's illegal to say oh you know what do we do here so the Olympic Committee has made a lot of strides on that and I think other organizations should I think the most important thing is people that are different people that are. Selling with transition and stuff like that. I think they deserve an opportunity to play sports sports was very very very very good to me and we should not deny them of that opportunity but also I think we should look at it very closely. And to and pretty much deal with it on an individual basis but the Olympic Committee is doing a good job came into this is an absolute treat being in your house sitting opposite so Kony you have wonderful Tilcara it's been an absolute pleasure having you and I mean school I've been told I talk too much but that's not for a call that's for your job that absolutely I think that would be an absolute joy thanks very much for so much if you enjoy just so much working together when I come back promise I want to throw up listen when you can do you more welcome in my house I'll tell you it's not quite as quiet doesn't it as you know it doesn't it's not it's not my lap who put it that way the ocean actually it's a nice day actually a couple of you can see Catalina out there and my son and I we took the. 2 weeks ago we took out 2 jets for use and went Catalina well across the strait. It was rough and they only made it you've a day and I'm delighted to do it because it means I got to talk to. An absolute pleasure having you. Join Thanks. Thanks very much for listening to this episode of Don't tell me the score with Caitlin Jenner on 5 life the lesson that resonated most with Mae was that you can have all the success in the world but it doesn't amount to much without peace of mind and being honest with yourself is a key part of that a huge thank you to Caitlin for having me to her lovely Malibu home and if you're listening as I'm sure you are the offer to pop round to mind when you're next in London does still stand if you're new to don't tell me the score please do go ahead and subscribe to the show on b.b.c. Sounds every week we discuss themes that tell us something important about life and how best to live it so past topics have included things like confidence leadership mortality mindfulness tribalism diversity despair and relationships many of my guests are household names lots aren't there but they're all experts with lots of wisdom to share that's it for now thanks again for listening it is much appreciated and please do join me again next time on 5 life. So that's where we leave 5 live on 96.70104.2 f.m. D.a.b. Freeview channels 719 and the b.b.c. Sounds like. This is b.b.c. Radio came to 6 o'clock on the mortgage. Prince Andrew has told the b.b.c. He has no recollection of meeting the woman who's accused him of having sex with her when she was 17 interview to be shown in full this evening the. If you'll call so expresses regret about staying with Geoffrey Epstein after the American finance he was convicted of sex offenses the billionaire killed himself in jail early this year while awaiting trial on further offenses Prince entries spoke to News nights Emily May Fliss the problem was the fact that once he had been convicted. I say that's the bit that I kick myself for on a decade places because it was not something that was becoming a member or family and we try and uphold the highest standards and practices and I let the side firefighters have been tackling a huge fire at a university block of flats in Bolton in Greater Manchester it's not known if there were any injuries one witness described the fire was getting more intense and climbing up the cladding of the 6 story building Tasha Evans lives in the block or the fire one straight and there's quite a few videos online at the moment as well was there is a fire has taken out the front of people's slot I literally ran into my room and grabbed a postcard being my way said the entire day because I'd been. Ronald the door. A man has been charged with burglary and being in possession of class a and b. Drugs it's understood to Dion McCarry from joining them to various items from a property on Seaview roads including 2 mobile phones he's been remanded in custody by his Johnson has described Labor's plans to provide free internet services for the whole of the u.k. As a craze to communist scheme Jeremy Corbin says the proposals would boost the economy and improve people's quality of life he would see bts Broadband Network taken into public ownership and would be partly paid for by higher taxes on take companies the shadow chancellor John McDonnell has been telling b.b.c. Radio Kent that the 20000000000 pounds required will fund a 10 year rollout that figure came from the government itself in an independent report of the government structure a view of technology in this country that's the 1st of the 2nd thing is in terms of bring you know preparation that part of b.j. Back into public ownership that will the price of that will be determined by parliament itself and it will be funded in a normal way by issuing government bonds for shares this is children in need has raised nearly $48000000.00 pounds the total was given at the end of the B.B.C.'s annual telethon which featured celebrities including actors and sports stars let's have a look at this morning's sport now is Matt cold would you let them take on Lincoln City today as they return to League One action Shiels ahead of the imps in 16th in the table the 2 sides only separated by goal difference as they meet at Praise field every kick of that game is part of the sport up from c. This afternoon we've got 3 National League commentaries as well Cup giant killers Dover had to get oval in the late game while leaders Bromley house Tara gates and Ebbsfleet take on Hartley poll at Stonebridge road would also be at the Kent Darby national south of Princes Park it's Dartford against Maidstone had a look at the weather forecast any early patchy folks should lift to allow for some sunny spell. At 1st as the day progresses skies will cloud over with a chance of a few heavy showers drifting in from the south later. Today of 6 Celsius pump that's the latest There's more at 20 past Thank you so very nice see Radio Kent Saturday Breakfast with power. As Craig has made nearly 48000000 pounds donated for Children In Need We'll follow that on the program today and in fact there's still fund raising going on over in Maidstone so you go live to the mall in a couple of hours' time in the 1st hour of today's program though we've music from Queen. Beautiful South stereo phonics and Prince twin towns our weekly anagram is back good old Roger embarrassed it has set out for this morning our financial expert Debbie Braithwaite his here to around a quarter to 7 it looking at the heating costs in money matters might be able to cut back a bit and save a bit of cash that and more with David before 7 am we've got loads of events going on across the county Saturday Breakfast with Pac-Man cool $8756.00 double one double one only takes teams to each one.