Transcripts for BBC Radio Foyle BBC Radio Foyle 20191217 120000

On the $100.00. That ensures that we deliver safe services we've some work to do. In the next 24 hours with our changing colleagues to make sure there are enough staff in the right place to deliver the essential services and more news Pakistan's former military ruler General Pervez Musharraf has been sentenced to death in his absence by a special court in Islamabad the general seized power and a bloodless coup in 1990 but was forced to step down in 2008 after nationwide protests he's currently living in exile into by I with the support he has doesn't have carried over actual audio remains Everton's prime target to replace Marcos over who was sacked last week there are reports this morning that they are targeting could be appointed by the end of this week and Chalabi previously known as Chelsea in the Premier League poll polled was Manchester United comeback a set to beat it delayed because of illness the midfielder was expected to return to training this week after recovering from the ankle injury that has kept a March in September on from each other has offered to be Tyson sure if sparring partner if it helps some paid Deonte Wilder fury fears or remarks with a American in February Thanks says he and the weather staying dry brighten chilly for many throughout the day with a high of 6 degree Celsius b.b.c. News. Talk with William Crawley on b.b.c. Radio. Tony Blair's former chief of staff Text. Or e-mail. And we're all feeds 4 minutes past 12 we're taking your calls right now learning you are to get your voice on the radio we're still trying to work the constitutional implications of. Victory. For the United Kingdom and for the future of Northern. a system is I don't feel like done since 030-308-0555 extension 5 we're taking your calls right now let's get your voice on the radio this lunchtime like it or not breaks it is going to happen and given Boris Johnson's life landslide victory in the general election it almost certainly means that Bret's it will happen along the lines of his pretty controversial withdrawal treaty which means there will be an economic border between northern Ireland and the rest of the u.k. Many also expect that the U.K.'s exit from the e.u. Will lead to wider constitutional changes it's already reanimated the debate in Scotland over another independence referendum could we be looking at the breakup of the United Kingdom as we know it within a matter of 10 or 15 years Jonathan Powell who as Tony Blair's chief of staff had a leading role. In the negotiations that secured the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 things we are. What you person born of a tree no not a restaurant. No longer because you know yourself or your. Crease towards an arsenal to school resister within 10 years he thinks that will happen within 10 years what do you think 03030805555 age Breck's it going to lead to a United Ireland within a period of 10 maybe 15 years you may have heard during the campaign Mike Ness but the former leader of the old he and his party saying the Braggs it was the greatest own goal and the history of unionism is that what we're talking about 817713 attacks as well we're joined by the writer and broadcaster Brian Feeney the journalist Hugh Jordan the former else to unionise concer Christmas joining us from London the former do you m p m a little pain Gelly Welcome to all of you let me come to you straight away Hugh because you posted on Facebook just the past few days a source you're not naming the source of obvious reasons within unionism a senior source who said to you. He said he actually didn't say to me but I am. 100 percent certain of the source that it will be he was it was said to him that the union of Great Britain of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has 15 years maximum as the senior member of the d u p at a government function in Dublin and what I'm saying to you on top of that is some members of the Democratic Unionist Party are much more regular visitors to Dublin than we realize and I think some of them are preparing themselves for this eventuality within possibly a period 15 years seems kind of realistic to me but I believe that they're being disingenuous with the voters and not telling them that I am a little one Gelly Do you share that concern. Oh I certainly think that's the way breast fed has been handled by the u.k. Government over the last 3 years has posed risks that Scottish nationalists some nationalism as to trying to salvage and they of what has been a bit of a mass in terms of the u.k. Government's approach to breakfast to try to push that agenda I think certainly the result from last week and terms of a ors Johnson government majority Mexico much less likely that there will be a Scottish referendum in the next 5 years but there is certainly going to be got to be a people be using else the chance to try to as I said to kids and push that agenda have to says oh you know I really don't get the sense from many people here that my view would say that you have people her convictions you know you've got people here conviction nationalists you've got a significant and growing number of people on the train and but I have heard from people many many sightings of people that those people somewhere in the middle they're not agitating for a border point they're not I just hating for United Ireland they actually want these issues to put people to one side actually focus on getting an organizer sound the up and going making organize and work so I actually think despite some of the spin around all of this it's actually going to be much more difficult than people think to convince those people to focus on the constitutional question as opposed to getting things up and going to Northern Ireland seminar that the dust is beginning to settle would you concede with whiteness but that pursuing breaks it was a mistake for constitutional unionism and I think the biggest mistake that has been met is the way breakfast was handled I think the u.k. Has tasted the union hostage a resilient you know you will how they guess usual how they change is that what happened stuff inevitable as it was has established and it's not the union is not as resilient as it needs to be and I think that eggs you know there's always this term approach if you vigilant eternal vigilance but you know the reality is we need to strengthen the union because if something like Bracks said Tozer starts out actually challenges the resilience of the Union then it is really strong as a base that they run. Well I think the. I think 15 years is too long by 15 years there will be an overwhelming niceness majority by the mid twenty's there will be a nationalist voting majority by the mid thirty's there will be an overwhelming majority no you can't translate that into a vote for United Ireland right but by then you will be able to because they pay is on reconstructed there is no way any of these people will feel attracted to live in the north of Ireland or feel they're part of it but there are a lot of those things that are that are just as important the harder of bricks and that Boris Johnson pushes the more likely there will be Scottish referendum or that the Scots will actually defy Johnson and go for an unofficial referendum economically there will be a driving force for Irish unity because people are going to be Per as a result of Breck's it. May told us all this a couple of years ago Johnson is going to have a much more strict Breck's it which will stop its alignment with. The e.u. His proposal on Thursday that he's going to make it illegal to stand they transition period means that he is quite likely to walk out if he doesn't get what he wants but people here are going to be much worse off and as it is anyone who looks at the figures can see that the North of Ireland at every respect is worse off than the Republic under a public is going to get better off because it's in the e.u. And as Jonathan Paul said if you have an economic united Ireland and not doesn't necessarily mean any kind of political connotation but if you have an economic in that it aren't business people officials professionals are going to start looking saw because it's going to be to their advantage to buy and sell and trade. Do business on the island rather than with Britain Kristie think. This is the same old argument time and time again I don't see this at all and I don't for example see well I don't see the inevitability of a united Ireland 10 years I just don't I just don't see it when he's not speaking in the never the bullet in terms Jonathan Powell he says is a greatly advanced increased probability increased likelihood. Let that obviously we're crystal ball gazing here but what way the u.k. Is going to operate and what whether the public of armed robbery wants the u.k. Liaise with within the European Union. We keep saying figures time and time again and there were. There were. Economic appraisals gone syndicated that actually if the u.k. Left a public of I would do much worse so where I mean the economists are throwing different different scenarios right nearly every day of the week I mean what you've got to do is you've got to see whether or not there's there is going to be an inclination but within people in the Republic to accept the Northern Ireland the United Ireland and to these men people over here to go in the United on I don't think either has changed I don't think either has changed significantly I don't remember and I 1st started going down site given given lectures and debates and so on 35 years ago the average Southerner wanted a net Arlin they always said in the fullness of time it's Ted Ted that the translators never see this is actually they say they are saying that they don't see what will I think that they what they wanted to ensure was when they go to bed at night they get up next morning the average Catholic in Northern Ireland got a fair crack of up and I think that's clear now and I think that's one of the big incentives that was for a united Ireland has gone on has gone a long long time thing Chris is the living 35 years ago this has all changed yesterday Stephen Daldry leaf in a faulty day said the government's going to have to start planning for the changes that are going to take place every almost every week someone in a senior position in the Republic says there's going to have to be something done in the plan because if we don't plan we being in the Republic and we don't plan we going to get the same sort of thing has happened after breakfast at the weekend on Sunday Charlie McConnell Logan motherf in a full t.d. Said exactly the same thing so there is a shift in the political parties and the Republican may bring Emma back and I think that. People are saying this doesn't mean that that's where people actually are I think if you look at the election results that doesn't back up what has been said by the growing nationalist majority or anywhere near that you look at the results from 15 years ago folks for the nationalist parties it's dying from 15 years ago yes it's dying as well in terms of the human footprint significantly die in terms of the National And I think that's because clearly if you look at the way people are voting there is a significant growth in center grind I hope in the state to many sizes of those people it's absolutely clear that many many of those in the center grind simply want to get on with things they don't want to to towards United Ireland and I think importantly you know a united Ireland is being offered as a very simple solution to what seems to be a period of chaos and transition with Brax that's what we don't seem to be talking putting much as we want chaos and transition to tighter Scotland leaving the United Kingdom our door than on the United Kingdom with brains that would have a significant economic impact in terms of our businesses in terms of our economy in terms of every public service because we're deeply entwined with the United Kingdom was a Scotsman and you seem to be very confident the Boris Johnson because he has this big majority will simply keep saying no to a Scottish independence referendum Well that's what he's indicated whether or not paying down the debt is not to leave and that's what he can to get a lot to do you pay a fee but take all I can say is what he has said I can't say and how to take them the Conservative Party has to say for a 2nd Scottish referendum they are Scottish They are the terms of a new host party yes there is a pair No I say I don't see why they would ground a Scottish referendum a 2nd Scottish referendum in the next 5 years but of course some people not stuff the debates there will be a lot and I think that of course with all of this that's not to be as far as they be ignited by within Scotland there's clearly. Definitely trying to take advantage of that here our National been trying to take a bunch of us about I would say is what they look at the figures look at the way people are voting yes and that people are voting in terms of pure national party funds people are voting on much more on the ground issues because they don't want the focus here on fortunately don't want to focus on whether or not we should be united and they want the focus that they are making or the NIH and work thinking and to be a better Q Are you saying that you're Westin talk here this does I've lived here all my life I don't recognize your description of Northern Ireland but I think if you there got results from last week want to stand as a growing member grind and certainly you seeing your 2 big party the d.d.p. And punished because you've been unable to do devolve government here and you've seen parties of remain rewarded that's what you saw in the election there's no doubt about their own happiness but not have the northern and the family but one fan of that and many of the people that I've spoken to and terms of voting against . In the last election those people are Senate want to focus on making things work and I don't and they're not saying today that they are agitating for border. Fight they're trying to they don't but you know I do think if we look at the figures there isn't don't know we haven't of a girly nationalist vote here I think that's the case Thank you know somebody said in the studio that you know that actually you know we're heading toward the never before majority of national voters are known to the statistics the national vote is dying from 15 years ago right I mean let me back come to the calls and actually we should have a conversation about this word nationalise at some point because I've met people who refused to describe themselves as nationalist who have told me to my face if there was a border pole they would vote for a united Ireland to keep Northern Ireland within the European Union but they don't consider themselves nationalists that's a very. Interesting phenomenon that we're witnessing maybe we need new language to describe this willingness to make that move so if you're texting to say the same thing you know the result of these text example David on Twitter says this is just as likely to lead to the breakup of the European Union he says. P.j. On Twitter says Plan now for the United Ireland others saying similar things to avoid any of the chaos that they say they've seen around breakfast party until Laos says it's 10 years away I would be too concerned if I were a unionist citizen on Twitter brags that the United out of one segment peaked talkback well keep listening I will I will vote for this if we are a lot of border poll another text I want to know from you today as well if you change your mind on this question of United Ireland have you changed your mind maybe you were quite happily bet a dime within the constitutional range with the u.k. Saying I like that the end of jazz I like education here we've got our own problems will make it work and maybe you've changed your mind are you saying you know want time to try something completely different Tell me if you have and tell me if you change your mind in the other direction we want to absolutely defend the constitutional arrangements of the u.k. 033805555 George in Hollywood how you do George. You're welcome many Republicans didn't agree with Joining not prevent our going forward. And there weren't too many Also words place which an integrated not watery eyes language just to pave the N.P.R.'s big it's been a big pain but let me turn to a point that's just been raised a rose there this is fear you know the contributors to within unionism is capable or willing to nuke Northern Ireland unequal in modern region or you know the king and such as the impending nice nice majority support it's been really an enemy to the kingdom one question and the thought of quickly and this is to really has to be paid Emma what's the point in our East Not unless we can equipment come from race based agreement. With unionism when they go in or need on them and man start a whole kerfuffle and want another a whole new. George thank you very much got that question equal rights across the u.k. The 1st point you're making and others have said this If the others with a unionism of fact have said this if there had been a strategy within you know in unison to guarantee equal rights for citizens across the u.k. Perhaps on same sex marriage and abortion reform is in their mind but other things as well including an already language rights we may be in a different position with some of this David is in Belfast Hello David hello well as a union of myself I really think. A lot closer more people leave I think the shambles do you pay me at all Roxette unionists like me think that Irish unity may get bad idea for Scotland I think Scotland will go I think in the future we also go I think the United Kingdom is absolutely over. Akong and not in Iraq will end up in 'd the Republican looked at about a moderate you know if it came to a border pull on the Irish unity question David you say you're minded what you're moving in your mind would you. After listening to that I think the biggest recruitment for Irish unity Yes I would hope for a uniter and I'm just so fed up of high pay of humble enough content I think that we have a shambles the number of patients they should have been talking about in Northern Ireland everybody is treated equally or everybody is treated whether they are or sure and everybody says they're actually making here you know so I'm really up about it but it won't say how much of a lawful lot more David thank you very much Emma you've heard this argument a number of times some people have put a very directly to the d u b even within unionism that the do you pay in the past 3 years has achieved more for our unity than fame managed in 30 years you've just heard the argument restated their Your response to well 1st of all I would say that you know in terms. For the last 10 years it's been categorized an odd way but there were many no last 3 matches in the last 3 days many big successes in terms of attracting for example foreign direct investment high quality jobs for young people so they not more than on the 2 want to say that the Democratic Unionist Party has a set of policies we cannot be all things to all people and some people will disagree with some of those policies they're Unionist party with a set of policies that are supposed to not defy you know some unionism is much broader than not you today atheist said very clearly that they want to do you better they want to get back to government they want to be able to deliver and I actually think I was involved in Programme for Government over the years if you look at those documents need to look at what has been achieved the vast majority of that was aligned making noise and on the better place in terms of the economy and terms of a wide range of issues and there had been successes throughout there of course I think some big failures as well but of course everybody needs to do better they need to do better and get in there and government can just stay away because of stuff but you know I do think that the argument survive based on the one thing I do want to pick up on is this idea that you need a key and a united Ireland is a simple solution because people think Bracks it is difficult for a number of decades within a single market to customize it and it's going to be incredibly difficult it's going to take a huge transition and chant and chaos an empire to everybody's life for us to disentangle ourselves from Saudis who thought FISONs of laws and regulations and things beer deeply embedded within and the United Kingdom and it's right on a simple solution take this country breakfast we are planning to have his upbringing and he would not under pressure Jim see again but I will tell you there there is widespread disbelief what of what you're saying today across what we're getting on Texan tweets and also Chris how he said and what you're saying today Eelam says industrial level head in the. Mode today others are saying please stop talking about demographic change you're missing the point where it's not a broad demographic change anymore it may well have been in the past that people have had enough of all this business people have had enough for example one person here says I'm a nationalist calls myself a nationalist quite happy to remain in the to have Northern Ireland remain in the United Kingdom but when I saw the deal you sharing a stage with Jimmy Bryson a recent meetings at really turned me off that particular view of Northern Ireland for many people this is a by how you see yourself not who you are in terms of your religion or your background but how you see yourself and project yourself Emma into the future and why not I never mention I never mentioned demographic and actually what I said is that many many people in Northern Ireland are no I don't think and nontraditional like you know and orange agree not you know to our nationalist I never said anything about the background of those people but what I said is if you look at the figures there's increasing numbers in the center ground and want to send a thank you to those people regardless of what tradition they originally came from our new communities are doing to question the cause and terms of the national unity question here what they all say they don't want at this stage a focus on countries question they're not articulating for a united front if they want the north and have something back they want people to get on with things another growing number of people from across all communities. I'm not talking about the sense of demographics here I'm talking about changing the way people are voting and that's what the figures show. Just. In a while to the public why she could stuff it last week she just doesn't get it there is a don't think remain and vote work and so I was Belfast north Belfast north on I don't reject. The d u p and the d P's failed view of the word that's why they got defeated and she just doesn't get that it's not a theory where the complaint here and the last time I don't want to see everybody that I didn't know you're talking about you couldn't ignore a dog because it was a gigantic remained photo wasn't anything to do with people supporting in that Arlen or anything else to do with that furthermore the the increase in the alliance vote if you look at the top life and time surveys look at an article by Kitty Hayward yesterday or 30 percent of the people who vote a lie and say Bracks it makes them more likely to vote for our issue not the even though they don't actually know what ship our issue of the will tick you Jordan Well you see here Emma being much more pragmatic than she was that same last week but my point as that Unionism and particularly hard brand of unionism as not preparing now even to the point of discussion amongst their own people for the future post brags that they just remain and trenched but unlike your former leader Emma who was a canvas in for you last week Peter Robinson he is much has a much greater vision of possibilities for the future what you seem to be you know what but it is I don't think that he is lying to the rest of the press the proposal the others by the b.p. Opposed it but what I understand is that they do you pay in fact I agree with many people that we should set aside the se but not the kind of the I take it no mind further conversation if I did I don't and the focus should be on making Northern Ireland work making the right for everybody credit and better jobs for young people come in 3 get in the economy back on track getting the Northern family back up and going I don't place thanks for talking to the people over the last number of weeks . That's what people want but many people are saying you're not making no they're not a work by going for bracket and you're not making Northern Ireland work by refusing to get into government over equal rights as he's that don't apply in the rest of the u.k. I'm not going to I don't think I mean I think they are the other me out of context in which we will that is the way I am I think that's been part of the failure of the day you pay which reflects as a failure on all of unionism I mean what we should be doing within Northern Ireland is making Northern Ireland attractive everyone has back of their back growing and we need to be offering people the same sort of equality and the same sort of Rights in Northern Ireland that they have elsewhere now they they are going I don't know Lim the u.p.a. Have done on equal marriage same sex marriage. Is just tactically was so would that be less damage unionism to such an extent that we have not have a situation where Shen féin are to be the party who fights for. Human rights and equality that's not and that means that I have ever had of him in the past and we can. Not damage has been done the sooner I do err Specter whether they get a deal going to storm or not the sooner that the day you pay and unionism generally but the u.p.a. Is a big part of the sooner that they get get back into the idea of realising that everybody needs equal rights and equal rights will attract people to the to Northern Ireland Edward in law and one of our regulars says Hi William I'm a loyalist I'm a royalist I'm retired British forces I would vote for a united darling tomorrow or if Johnson does not care about Northern Ireland and that's just an example of some of the similar responses we're getting from people who describe themselves as loyalists or or Eunice all well and good says David but you need to go to such Dublin to. Gauge opinion there ask Brian Feeney about that do people in the scythe actually want a united out and now we have different polling on this look at this polling from. The middle of 2019 r.t.e. And t.g. Cowherd did a poll and they find 65 percent supported a United out of 1st versus 19 percent no that 6 months ago without more recent polling sense but what do you sense is the reaction in the South want to say there is a there is a growing. Movement to start thinking about what it entails when people talk about it and I did are in order border poll they don't know what that means what it would lead to what is either that or is it do you accept that that conversation makes it more likely that we'll have yes it is yes because it doesn't become the technical conversation that's right that's why there's an agitation for a citizens' assembly to sit on and this goes What that are and would be is it of federalism to come federal arland as a unit restate no one knows what do you knighted Arlene's what happens to somebody who's pension is transferable what happens when you go to the all these things have to be answered in the way that the Scottish government produced a 600 page booklet to say this is well and then the Scotland would look like that's one of the problems one of your callers are saying about what happens and so is Dublin and what's their attitude they're really concerned they're going to have to give away something there's a huge inertia in the Republic or afraid that their little cosey dollar is going to be radically changed by an influx of horrible nor do we have massive goals and on this one get some more of you on Jim in strength for next. Do you think. The competition from from. By Johnson point correct and he will disregard this inevitable. United Ireland will be driven by foreigners Johnson's policy of negating Scotland. We're already on the way out the door in the north of Ireland. Or the Unionist leadership. Begins to educate their electorate to that effect generally will start making progress you just today have been burying their head fairly in the sun. And it ended up with a receding electorate voted cetera it is clear that there will have to be an accommodation. That has brought about the board sensible attitudes what will apply Jim thank you very much some of those on Twitter and on Tex actually making a similar point about Boris Johnson's presumed unionism some saying stop calling Boris Johnson a unionist he is not a unionist he is an English nationalist driving a branch of the agenda which is an English nationalist agenda not a call that English nationalism the England part of the u.k. Is what 87 percent of the electorate Fidler you want to see 3 seats if you want to elect it is not he said that it's very important if you if you want to get elected and donning straight bronze anon this is Tom the broad Hello welcome welcome he would prompt and he said there at night and it's down to the paper the end of day not the politicians thank God for had but people were going to I'm wrong is going to take 10 years or more people are going to have to know what what's going to happen to them and every 2 Clinton are. I think of my grandchildren and years to come that have people have people can be showers find that they have this cme I use the word candidates and for all of the reasons we got here and they're satisfied with that maybe but don't tell they're satisfied what it's going to be and their pockets that's been dropped the credit at the end the day then of course the people that may take about 10 years to work out but on tell at football changes evade here and that's what action. For it's going to at the end of the day what is going to happen to the overall economy of North America right Brian thank you very much others saying maybe be part of the wake up call here is what breaks it has taught the mike or maybe should teach the is that there's a lot more affection for the European Union than they imagined across Northern Ireland a lot more appreciation of it a lot less fear of it Anil and after 50 years of membership is over within the European Union a lot of people attach that to their sense of identity and the world and even those who are rude to describe themselves the unions here are making that point some of them anyway that that might be a strategic mistake that has been made by unionism around breaks I'll come back to m.l. And 2nd Robert encourage Ferguson to Robert hired and welcome. The chaos you have to remember too over Brock's it was caused by politicians from alarm simply and have to pay on the whims of. Not supporting the democratic folk that's why the chaos was over Brock's it as well but a united Ireland which unfairly alarms me as the LP and others have it's a festive 149 folk and favor of a united Ireland what will probably be stand when 40 men that food at the state party United Kingdom the saide that they're going to fade it all away the way they did whether I mean we're back Robert I think Robert just to be clear the Alliance Party do not have a defense position on a United I don't speak and they're not a very are you father William Wyler can say something else I think also that. People and Europe will follow suit of Britain now the prep is getting better but I think European Union will fall apart and what's out there that may be hopeful thinking Robert thank you very much because many other come to this Ross Europe thing this whole Breck said chaos has persuaded quite slow people in Europe they might have been more euro skeptic to pull back a little bit not to press forward but we'll see how that works out told in these Belfast I told Hi William Good afternoon Brian Brown Feeney was talking about the economic benefits of united Ireland. The Republic of Ireland are recovering bankrupt it years ago they were in the same basket as Grace the highest debt per head of population of any country in Europe I'm one of the highest in the world they have no money so this from you know there is an economic reason to join the Irish Republic and your core caller from West Belfast at the nail on the head when he said you know that then efforts. Will be economic and that 5 people will decide on a vote I'm particularly when you think of things like the National Health your pensions and all the various things that block grant. For this of Lucian that the Republic of Ireland is going to be an economic choice as nonsense and is not the 1st time Brown has used this sort of argument but that's just another argument for a national let me reply directly I bring apply directly to the guy who has called own my home let me tell of the disposable high school income in the Republic is 3000 dollars a year higher than it is here. Very. Pardon $3000.00 higher than it is here the reports of individuals in high schools at risk of poverty is substantially higher here than it does in the Republik life expectancy in the Republic is 1.6 years more than it is here. Per capita g.d.p. Per capita Can you please hold back the g.d.p. Per capita is 50 percent lower here in the southeast region the Republic foreign direct investment has higher in the Republic so let's get the facts together benefits are higher pensions are higher so let's not hear how he bore nods and a debt is higher fat is higher and he considers Scotland that he's an independent country already Scotland's got per capita even higher debt. As parties say that a miscalculation because a lot of that debt support. They say your response Well I think that clearly needs to be to work what I. Said before that thank you knighted on this simple solution somehow we're just going to fly and leave the United Kingdom and United and that is not going to be justice but I think. That we would be side with the European Union and independent United Kingdom based processes are challenging and women being an incredibly difficult nobody saying that to me it's here and I think you know and the 2nd issue is and I think this is an acknowledgment I think it is an acknowledgment across you know that we need to do more to sell the benefits of the Union a unionist by conviction but I believe there's also an incredibly strong history to me and by the economic and political and cultural benefits of being part of the United Kingdom voiding a Northern Ireland Labor Scottish but it's going to be really really difficult in terms of compass might have are you know by the benefits. Yes but more than 3 percent of the United Kingdom is the 2nd largest economy in the world because in my defense I guess you know for the cell not the people who are persuadable and the standard because at the moment it's clear some are being persuaded by just like you have a very simple solution I don't know not to be simple it will not be something every hour but I don't feel like sure for Social Security benefits or n.h.s. Our national security guard them our national debt that is all basically embedded with the United Kingdom Scotland leaving Jordan I think Scotland even will not take some books but take decades and decades that one has to go let me go to take my 5 years I don't have a journey that's a date or another day but you can all agree as for finding complex even if you disagree on how to fix it I wish you had more time but we're out of time before you go I know you're in London today some speculation in the media that you may be returning to storm and as an m.l.a. In a band will he tell us well I am focusing on trying to recover from the election and also to get many things sorted I think but I think that I should focus today but would you we would you be keen to return to storm of politics as I've said all unspoken on the moment is trying to get things sorted I tried to stop and that's what we call an ongoing Emma and I thought you'd been looking forward to joining up with finagled and so on. He couldn't help himself sorry about that at the very last minute Thank you very much for joining us the busy day from London for you I'm a little again a huge Jordan Brown thing. Call us on 030. 5555 tweet b.b.c. Talkback text you 21771 or email the program talk talk back to b.b.c. Dot com Don't you k Well now this may prove even more difficult than bricks at preparing Christmas dinner can be a daunting enough. Task but what about for vegans and vegetarians and those who are lactose intolerant and those who are concerned about gluten those with allergy requirements there are so many dietary concerns around big meals like Christmas these days and so many new fad diets as well people trying to lose weight and moving into other kinds of restrictions are you stressed at the thought of some of your family or friends coming around for Christmas dinner or one of your Christmas dinners this year because many of us were having a bunch of them as we go we're joined by an I'm a broadcaster an author Believe it or not cooking for 14 this Christmas including 3 vegetarians to Vegas to in a strict protein based diet and a year and a half old baby on a make you're going to be busy we're also. Our friend the broadcaster and journalist Liz Kennedy who I think I sense would like a little bit more of the traditional kind of take what you get the 1st is that right Liz you know I did in Turkey I did in Turkey how you going to manage I'm not I'm not tracing back it's market share the 1st thing so I'm very relaxed the people who I find impossible to pay for half the cases the cells they bring something. Well I can put in the oven and generally I mean I take a kind of you have to get on with it but I take objection to flexitarian because I am always puzzled by the could take any when they want whenever they want and you can use just mood that is not there and so they can tell you know it with whatever comes out might happen but I'm not trying to commentate people the best for her so this is a foodie equivalent of bring your own bottle just bring it all main course now you know it's very clear that it's a roast in our ways I love the variety so we get to know what's right for the Petits anime. Gravy one vegetarian one me and then putting. Could actually get even cost. Graeme. Christie put in favor I think it's kind of like I mean I say I'm in trouble but not because I've had too much wine I've got to have everything but have you tried the big an exit yet. Get the. Yeah yeah try those you know they want to talk it's fine if you put them in with things I mean take that back actually we're not. Good at that I don't know that's the feeling after the morning after when you're trying to have your. Restaurant but is it your only mail that you want everyone to enjoy so you do that's going to try and include. It all get a bit much what happens goodness for a bit of the gravy gets mixed up with the nonviolence one mixed up with the Viju under the car you know with the vegetarian and I would invite your roast potatoes that would have been cooked in this fight and they accidentally get eaten by someone who is a vegetarian you don't I mean it just starts to get all too much well I just like something that you know everybody can eat and I mean the way it was mentioned the head of the flexitarian which is to big you know I'll eat anything right now I would call deflectors Marianne but I just I just think it's lovely to have us all sitting dying to one thing and I am of the school of thought that if you have your traditional turkey you're How much do you also have an incredible beautiful range of vegetables and protect Lee locally where we have such good projects and people can help themselves to a better there's no better that and my brother and they'll take the rest of you don't want exactly but my brother for example he doesn't eat meat really at any other time of the year so kind of goes I think I'll have a wee bit of Turkey today you know why shouldn't I but I don't like to tarry as that is pretty like the Terry idea but is that fair to vegetarians of the if they come around your house and you get everything else except well what are you going to have been horrible you know true or not roast that hasn't really been cooked properly or over and over and you know I mean. Can get nice ones a good time in my experience that you know it's usually just like the traditional thing I mean I've been fancy Terry and I've done all of not and I'm aware of the whole vegan thing I couldn't go that way because I like dairy to live alone we have a deterrent for I was a vegetarian for a bite 5 years of years or so and what did you do if you're a veteran well take what you're given Yeah at that point because we were all kind of living in the world where you know this has been going on for a while a lot of my friends were vegetarian but the reason I had to stop being a vegetarian was we were living in the north of Scotland it was really hard to time you know. Local the edge at all times of year and so that was that was my problem until Sue The thing about it is making sure that you're getting enough protein not worries me about some of the young people know I heard Ty was vegetarian for 12 years I know it doesn't look but I got to be 12 deficiency at one point during that that was my fault because I sure didn't understand I didn't understand I did I fixed that but I had endless trouble back in the day so long time ago by half there with restaurants and things but you've got so much ferocity Now as you hear is not just about people becoming vegetarian or vegan but this increase in things like lactose intolerance people are finding out about themselves or gluten this commission free finding of cells and that's not just a choice and that means that they don't want to get on well or they feel healthier and they take care of it I think gluten free particularly I'm not calm yes i'm very important No I mean magically some people have to have gluten free under the night I know that there are things that I avoid because there is the ubiquitous modified me is starch in everything these days you know just about things aren't so I think we all generally need to if we stick to the real not to not roast aren't there yeah to be a problem some of them not allergy at the road well exactly in there and the atmosphere could be a huge problem and you need to know by air coming in and we're also joined by Jackie McPeak who prepares meals for gas with different requirements and also gives advice. So how to do the hiden Jackie. After having just given a says I'm doing very well thank you I just give a sense of some of the different dietary requirements these days to do with milk and gluten and vegetarian a vegan is on the rise of course it's been all over the news this this year it's a muscle question though isn't it. I think that means that. There are 5 characters. Jackie I'm going to have to redial you hear a word you're saying I'm really sorry and I do want to hear about the kind of vice you give to people to kind of make it work but I'm a mind going is with us and Liz Kennedy will be jacking it peak back in a 2nd so I'm a what advice would you give people will get I'll get Jackie's in a 2nd in terms of the variety of restrictions and diet and how to manage it I think if you very much you should be joining if you can about this I'm not. Going to squash the fact nobody good time. Doesn't it just like to cook as a turkey that's for sure. So you have a very very think I think the face better so I mean I mean just having a. Base like that right not to say. I had 10 day well what's the problem with just dating the badge on a match Well it's not really respectful. When you're going through much thought Ok for me. Well that's what I tell you and so doing surely Well they shouldn't have to do that I just want to tarry and see vegetables correct yeah but you know if you're if you're paying for the same meal minus the meat you're being cheated as you know if you're looking to Tarion menus in places quite often you'll see things like. Cheese or you'll see some combination of Keesha or something of that nature you know if they're not going to be boring it's pretty boring and the people who are paying you know this pretty much the same as they would be for meat thing I'm proud I probably own. We eat meat maybe once a week twice a week yeah but we don't do what you do and some of us like you like if you're having a lot of people that I think you need to make a recipe for everybody squash that I know I have. All of them my viewpoint or I'm only having white wine and not red bar yeah you know not people what I mean what are you going to do with the ins coming for Christmas when I have all that. I.c.c. . I'm going I'm on my bill with a guy from the minute you're just criticizing Liz for ignoring the plate you're telling them just bring their own line go to restaurants bring your own dinner bring your own food and that really aren't hard you know like I mean. People I'm also I would say I mean I have to put my how about I say I don't think I'll cope with everything that I was very faithful that well about my faith. That I would then have to go to the phone about if I my family if I don't. Buy. It actually I would say heck a lot of them yes. Yes we're trying to avoid that but well people ask me what I don't like to eat I always say Tapia look I'm kidneys things would it. Yeah I just basically not together and you know ever know the verdict and I was told I did you well I hope so that's what you mean mistake 11 is so good for you no money on your blood liver. So when it comes to the vegans they going to bring their own for you. Will provide something for them well yeah yeah yeah I'm back I bet you are but you have been for what is the most challenging allergy I have to deal with I said and off I mean yeah yeah that is frightening Yeah you can inflict harm on people it's not just I go back to that will that give me a bit when I mean it could end up every theory I've had. Yeah I think the terrible thing on I'm a I'm not sort of serious note is you know particularly for children's birthday parties these days because quite often you know when you're reading the ingredients on things you'll see that there may be traces of not I mean some children as you mentioned where you know you know if something is even opened in the dark there's not that the child can go into shock and I love a banana ologies you come across that a friend of mine had that under her nose used to go red and she had been on a. Serious reality much more serious than just skin reaction right and if you cooking it might have a banana an awfully. Just Martin you know very bright. Cherries you know right Sherry I think. All right if you drink sherry you know that's what you drink very you know. There are 303-030-3555 are you worried about this are you coping with it how do you explain the rise in so many restrictions these days around Christmas dinners and the like vegetarianism veganism it is on the rise how do you explain that this I think that people are certainly more aware of allergies and for some reason for elective differences as well and they are using these as a big movement towards the terrorism for environmental reasons Yeah well I mean that I can see a lot of people obviously are afraid to have that option it is that the medical ones I mentioned the gluten free one I mean many people for many years went on diagnosed with things like that but I think that if you go back the trouble is with a lot of our food where we're buying process that is there are so many auditors that that is part of the problem of people becoming allergic to things because previously we think of the present diet that we had an island grew up on you know that our previous generations grew up on potatoes they faced fresh from the sea they grew their own vegetables I was pretty simple and people didn't have those kind of allergies because nothing. This was happening in the diet you know so I think that the more the more variety we have almost there were allergies are going to be an a make you answer this one some people like jelly with their Christmas there is no you got a jelly vegetarian or No Well actually you have to have a poetry but. If I didn't last you can think in my heart of the mall there I go right go up that market but it's very cocoa. Something awful I just don't have a challenge that's too much too much effort that which I think is right for Christmas oh well my good friend who does the food makes a very good positive about Christmas the pavlova is lovely I do like Christmas pudding but it's just too much after all that I love Christmas but it can you Moniz you know well you only have a spoon full or 2 of yeah yeah but it is so rich I'm going to take a really old souffle and with Brandy is just yeah I'm cream and him or yeah go the whole hog I'm not sure how many restrictions we just crossed there there's a lot of red lines in there and I certainly Christmas pudding is always a problem is that vegetarian Christmas pudding there it can be yeah yeah. That Can I buy. Protein rolls Yeah. Right especially you stock. Yeah baby area. You have adequate chocolate on them. Yeah they're sharing that amount of time over the past because you got that far all right. Candy thank you very much I'm going to order lunch let's get ready for since 1 o'clock. To 3 point one and I'm 719 medium with b.b.c. Radio 5. Good afternoon and welcome to the news Yvonne with Anna Coren the headlines this lunchtime and. He's been jailed for killing the dairy told an arcade McGinest is to have paid to his conviction and it's a marriage that a man who was found dead in his home and put it down last week was stabbed to death and then with a lunchtime sports car to launch a lottery as Everton's number one target to replace Marvel so I asked from the office Liverpool's academy players in the League Cup quarter final one of the Potters the truth they fly tempers Thanks a 1000034 grand of our writs money wasted on you since 26 team a new barrier to this we had the Home Bargains boy racers and after Tommy Fleming life on Facebook Mark Potter show. It's one minute past one Boris Johnson has addressed his cabinet for the 1st time since the election telling them that voters had changed the government and his party for the better he said it was no time to repay people's trust we should have absolutely no embarrassment about saying that we are a people's government and this is a people's cabinet we are going to be working to deliver on the priorities of the British people the 1st 100 days were very busy 140 days whatever it was you may remember was a very frenetic type. But you ain't seen nothing yet for. Tim McCormack is our political reporter Good afternoon afternoon and optimistic Boris Johnston Johnson rather as setting out his stolen he has every right to be optimistic after that election victory what else has he been saying today yeah I suppose the key thing really is I mean he pointed out that it's been pretty frenetic so far guess what it's going to get even more frenetic as we approach the last week before Christmas because this afternoon parliament will be officially reopened will see the new speaker take to the chair Lindsay Hoyle he will then and basically a lawyer the new cohort of M.P.'s to start being sworn in from this afternoon that is a process that's going to last for a couple of days we do expect Boris Johnson to come to the chamber at some point today as well to face off against Jeremy Corbyn and just kind of said oh yes there still is going forward because we know that later this week there are 2 things Boris Johnson wants to do 1st of all he will be bringing forward the Queen's Speech which is the fact of late his government's program for government their kind of agenda in terms of what policies and legislation they want to bring 3 over the course of the next couple of years it seems strange because they had one of those just a couple of months ago after he'd taken over so it's effectively bringing all that forward again and the other thing Boris Johnson has said that he is planning to do this week is come Friday the government plans to bring back its withdrawal agreement bell so effectively Boris Johnson's brags that deal will be back on the table for M.P.'s to vote on not look certain that he will get it through this time given the stonking majority that he got in last week's election but he's also said that not only that they're going to bring in a clause to try and roll out any extension to the transition period beyond the end of next year so effectively it means if the government can't get a tree a deal by the end of December 2020 then effectively Great Britain would be our trading on World Trade Organization rules Northern Ireland would still be under the terms of the Dail aligned pretty closely to you really and that is something over. That concerns the do you pay because they worry that if there is new trade Dale Great Britain starts to move away from Northern Ireland in terms of its trade deals potentially we could end up with a pretty hard Irish Sea border if things didn't go according to plan today I'm going to talk about brags that later in the program and the green benches Westminster for new M.P.'s from Northern Ireland among the new faces and one missing in the shape of John Finnegan Yes that's exactly right because we know every station fan and pays don't take their seats because of the long standing policy of abstention ism so we won't see John Finnegan there. We did say ever call him Mr The later on newly elected m.p. For for oil was pictured are outside at Westminster Bridge this morning and there he is there and Claire Hahn of course and his colleague elected for size Belfast she will be there to along with Carla Lockhart the new m.p. For upper bond with her 7 do you pay colleagues and Stephen Farry kind of rounding off the tally there for Alliance who was elected as the North dying and pay last Thursday so they will be there it's not certain whether or not they will get to be sworn in today as I say that is a process that takes a couple of days really fertile to be sworn in but you know new faces they're not the only ones or so many I think I were coming into this Parliament lots of veterans gone from the benches some shocks as well of course and you won't see the likes of Ken Clarke there's a new father of the horse Peter Bottomley and it's an interesting change in time it kind of feels like you know a new term new school term even though we're going into Christmas yeah politicians are taking up a new post of mine as minister closer to home Jane if you heading for the exit door that is right this morning we got a statement from Shane Fay an actor who confirmed 2 members of their assembly tame are leaving politics and that is marching or of course familiar to many people because he's one of the party's most high profile and well known performers former finance minister he was the 1st infant m.l.a. Told that. Post is leaving politics along with Meghan Ferran who is the Neary and are mom and l.a. People might know her she was the youngest m.l.a. To be elected to be co-opted into the assembly back in 2012 when she was just 20 years of age we don't know exactly why they are leaving them the party put out a pretty generic statement it has to be said.

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