In attack on Boris Johnson and other former colleagues with more excerpts from his memoir being released he stated that the Prime Minister never really supported BRACKS It did so to further his career and he's also got some choice words for his former friend Michael Gove is a Political Correspondent Chris Mason David Cameron accuses Boris Johnson of self-serving opportunism and backing the even is even spiky about Michael Gove saying they couldn't believe a liberal minded conservative intellectual had become a foam flecked far August. The former rugby international Gannett's Homa says he's been a shell of the positive for some time they were camped in British lines speak south been a B.B.C. Documentary to ground some Wednesday saying he felt fear and shame about his medical status David forces a clinical psychotherapist who specializes in Gaiman's health but I really applaud his courage because even in this day and age some 30 years into the epidemic it still requires a tremendous amount of courage to break through the stigma and the shame that still is so inherent and in so many of us so I think that someone of his caliber and his fame breakthrough as a role model is tremendously empowering for all kinds of people a man's been stamped to death in north London the 30 year old was found by police with serious injuries in Edmonton last night's 40 year old man's been arrested President Truman saw fit to help Sound The Arabia to drone strikes caused huge fine is that to its main oil facilities he see rebels say they carried out the attacks in retaliation for the Saudi bombing of its people in Yemen 5 cement now answer us from the Middle East Institute in Washington this is all has to do with the U.S. Iran an escalation in tensions Iranian regime wants to tell trump that it could reach into places in the Middle East where it could hurt U.S. Economic interests and the global entrants that it's completely would then Iran's power to do so and the storms brought heavy rain to the Bahamas 2 weeks after hardy can do it in devastated the islands Tropical Storm Humberto is slowly slowly moving north away from the Bahamas and police in Orks which are investigating the theft of a solid gold toilets with almost 5000000 pounds and been blown in Palace a 66 year old man's been Rice's supposed live news show Joe has the sport and Pep Guardiola praised the knowledge for being clinical in their finishing as his side went down 32 at Carrow. Rohde it was Manchester City's 1st defeat in the Premier League since January and leaves them 5 points behind the leaders Liverpool elsewhere Chelsea striker Tommy Abraham says he hopes it's his season after scoring a hat trick at Wolves you can find all the football results on the B.B.C. Sport website and app Joe Donnelly insists he wasn't thinking about his place on England's a winter tours and was just trying to occupy the crease he scored 94 as England reached 313 for 8 in their 2nd innings in the 5th Ashes Test of the oval they lead Australia by 382 runs going in today for Europe captain Katrina Matthew says how players will head into Sunday's solemn Cup singles with confidence and have a good chance to regain the trophy the USA edge the Saturday afternoon 4 balls to level up the match at 8 points all and at the Paris Swimming World Championships in London Britain's broke Weston set a new world record as she took gold in the S.M. 8200 metres individual medley this is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sound Smart speaker. On the way there Sunday's looking draw in more minutes and it was silly spells but many central and northern areas will be planted here with rain it's time to go to the school and with the fish and very windy and all the Gnarls noise today of 12 in Belfast in 20 francs it's at the best. Elite club competition. On Tuesday night. Against Liverpool. 8 pm and on Wednesday Shackleton esque against Manchester City See this is your full station and this is for you. This is a ball not of 5 Live from Dalton added Brian coming up in in a moment we'll be looking ahead to the big fight tonight Thierry versus Raelene old versus auto if you are in Las Vegas we've got full coverage of that coming up also can be Lib Dems continue being attractive to disaffected them. The 2 main parties and will be reflected in the general election we've got the week's news from Myanmar and we'll be hearing from E.U. Nationals from elsewhere in Europe who live in Britain and get their thoughts on break in here about their fears and their difficulties as well over there already experiencing. Coming up at some point around 5 o'clock this morning who bring you live coverage of Tarzan firies heavyweight bouts again sorts of Raelene in Las Vegas 5 lives books in course one of my Costello in the form a middleweight world champion and he keeps you right across it actually we'll hear from Mike in just a moment but after a difficult spell away from the ring and 9 months on from that epic fight we've gone say wild Tyson Fury insists that he's now at peace with himself about the biggest fights of my generation and go out a fault wild So this is just like bonus now it's just like OK fun fights last of Wilder again so again the weather so was most of like you know what is Stevo just want to be happy trying to make me very happy I had almost 3 years of being very on topic a lower than a low as any man could go and I knew it was the training that I wasn't doing was giving me that Follett and trying to give me a purpose in life and I love to do it and even if I was again paid millions to do I'd still be training every day for free I train I want to fight now I don't fight for money I don't fight for glory don't fight for belts fight for happiness and tons of theories also been talking about the phone calls that he makes to another former British heavyweight champion and city just to just staff readily Bunter. Call I Mary calls may have shot a little child. And I say you know much about everyone jumping on the world and you've got loads of celebrities in the phone book couple of beers and you get a phone Daryn. Well Mainway Roni of Kwara relationship. Usually without a few jobs. Just everybody and everybody. But as it goes one of my Costello who's going to be taking this through the big 5. Is something to get excited about this for I don't know well I think there are reasons to be excited top news is what it means and the significance for the future because we've heard a lot of talk in the build up here as we did in the build up to his 1st fight in Las Vegas back in June when he beat the German Thomas Schwartz in just a couple of rounds and auto filing doesn't appear to be a much more difficult opponent than SCHWARTZ But the excitement is all around what happens next because it's highly likely according to Tyson Fury and his new promoter in the United States. That Next up will be the rematch that so many boxing fans want to see against 10 and a half months ago at the Staples Center in Los Angeles they fought to a thrilling draw many people thought that Tyson Fury was unlucky not to get the verdict that night so we've been waiting and waiting for confirmation of the rematch ties if you're himself has said this week that it will happen on February the 22nd of next year that doesn't seem to be so certain about that but it seems as though the rematch will happen in the early part of next year which means that Tyson Fury cannot afford to make any mistakes here the city there with good bones he talking to a few moments ago in those clips he did sound really relaxed and happy ties a few there is given all the sort of issues ease had personally issues and so on. In the form of his life would you describe. Members were saying this week that 5. December of last year he was operating at about 60 percent of his best they're saying he's getting closer and closer with every passing phase in every passing training session to 100 percent. Of him coming in. Last 5 and a half pounds. Since he won the World Heavyweight Title shot fashion. In 2015 and he's had problems that you've documented since then and he's an overwhelming favorite to win. The mind of Tyson every bit as important as the podium when you tour here in talking so. That's a signal that what we're going to say tonight is the real Tyson. And given the overwhelming favorite here but the importance is all about what could happen next. I think is you know he's a showman and I think that's the way he approaches it's about him put on the show not so much the opponent. You have not the style he has an A plus. It's not so much about the opponent with ties it was you can always plot a good show just by himself but he will of course he'll be intent. On Boxing clinic trying to get a star producer Riad or more oppressive and sending out a message via the heavyweights in the vision. I suppose gentlemen that. We can't rule anything out even though Mike was saying a moment or 2 ago that this should be straightforward victory food ties who after. June is surprising victory over and. That's a reminder for every fight the anything can happen when they're in the ring Absolutely and that's given us a license to be aware and we were saying very similar in the build up to the fight against Tom Schwartz that was only 2 weeks after the 1st his Joshua shock and it should be noted that auto Valley odds are very similar to those that were stacked against Andy. And anything can happen in the heavyweight division because you've got 2 men here one of them Tyson Fury 6 foot 9645 whatever lame weighing in at over 16 stone Tyson Thierry over 18 stone and that's that's a lot of weight to be throwing in a single punch So yes anything can happen but Tyson Fury is that type of fighter who really does concentrate on defense and and shouldn't be making mistakes against this caliber of opponent if he really has designs on beating the ante wild in what we hope will be his next contest oh the full interview with Steve bones doods We have ties to the theory and it seems I mean according to Fieri all he knew about also in was that he was tall and blonde and blue eyed. The case can it really. I mean there is an element with Tyson Fury that he says one thing on Monday and another thing on Tuesday and it's part of the character and it's part of the appeal when he really is on form in terms of. The interviews and what he says to us but he will have done his homework he's very proud of his status as one of the great historians of the heavyweight division and he'll be very aware of some of the great he shocks not just in boxing history but in sporting history have happened not only in the sport but in the heavyweight division you think back to Boston and Mike Tyson in 1900. S. Lost his mother in the build up to that fights and a few months ago. Father died and he's been a great inspiration to his father who encouraged him to get into boxing in the 1st place at the age of 15 so they've been some parallels drawn about how to. Inspire as by tragedy and you've been around. For a long time and he's not the type to be over looking and whatever he says in those kind of flippant answers to interviews he's not the type to be overlooking a particular. Maybe a little bit of flexion I'm not trying to empower or give power to so. He will be just as you said he's a box in a story and you can ask about any heavyweight currently active in here now he started his make up or even the guys coach where he trains who spoke so he was very detailed in his preparation and I don't expect any of us tonight do we know what. Mark or you may have heard just in the background. Introducing the 2 fighters for the last of the undercard fights world title fight in the super bantamweight the vision the conclusion of that we expect Tyson Fury and. Away to the ring although we have been told by the housebroke asters here A.S.P.'s that the title here a fight will not stop before 9 pm local time which is 5 o'clock in the morning Kate ice is perfect for us thank you very much appreciate it my Costello there with your commentators to live for the ties of fury are so over the valley fight in bring you all the coverage of that as soon as it starts now former Conservative M.P. Sam Jima has joined the Liberal Democrats 6 employees of now defected to the Lib Dems in recent weeks including former Tory M.P. Phillip the and next Labor employees Luciana Birger Muna Mr Jamie was one of the 21 Tories who had the conservatives were removed after rebelling against Boris Johnson in a bid to prevent a no deal Briggs it he addressed the Lib Dems conference in Bournemouth when you're playing fast and loose with our Constitution when you're playing fast and loose with people's livelihoods when you're playing fast and loose with people security I think it is right that we all stand but when people stand up they are called collaborators they're called saboteurs they're called mutineers something has gone wrong. Well Polly MacKenzie is the former chief policy advisor for liberal Democrat deputy prime minister Nick Clegg and now the chief executive of the think tank the most. If she was surprised by this move I think it is quite a big big surprise in a way that for a big achievement for the Lib Dems The question is I guess can they keep growing bringing Juanita and why integrate this people from different intellectual traditions into the tent or because you know something is. Maybe a liberal conservative but still a conservative. Willing to say you know trees I'm a as a minister it's quite it's quite a big intellectual leap will that course the Liberal Democrats to kind of fragment and start to lose their identity or will it be a kind of making off a new court based intellectual liberal tradition I think that's the question as the next weeks and months go on and let's not forget he stood for the leadership of the party not too long ago yes absolutely. Very strict next to news well we'll wait and see with that as far as you can sell the what's in the removal of the whip that force is handed away because I remember on that night I remember on that night party that he commented Pappas was June this should scrutinize more every sort of nuance of of what M.P.'s say nowadays but he said he had very much enjoyed being an M.P. For the Conservative Party and by that I thought he was basically declaring himself unavailable to stand at the next election where is who knows he may have already made his decision decision then would he have. I don't know I think I think the way party politics works the kind of tribal loyalties the whole process of standing for election instills in you mean that there is a huge amount of someone searching for M.P.'s if before they make any kind of transition or leap to a different party I think I think the that different astray from the Conservative Party made it clear that he and those 21 basically don't have the career itself. Within the Conservative Party they're not going to be allowed to stand as Conservative M.P.'s at the next election and we know that might be quite soon and I think that moment of knowing that you know various assumptions you made about you know your job and your future have been kind of thrown out does hospital to have a soul searching that you can say oh perhaps he's just putting his best strategy in order to have a chance of winning a seat in the next column and I think to be honest. I don't see the Liberal Democrats yet 16 percent in the polls is the latest today no it's not a kind of a sure fire pasta getting back to comment on a in a seat for life in the way that those 2 big parties often are so I think we should take take at face value what he said about trying to do something different and stand up for a different set of values that he thought at home in the Conservative Party and the prime minister has said no longer. That much of it you know I'm all right in thinking that it's much profound soul searching for a jury M.P.'s or for majority M.P.'s to cross the floor than is labor and I'm running. Sure I mean there have been defections from the Conservative Party at any piece in the past to the little Democrats and defections from the Labor Party in the past you know as far. As you know 2004 it does happen sometimes I guess. People often think of the Lib Dems. Policies or the Lib Dems or the little Labor Party is the big one I think the Liberal Democrats often would contest that kind of pigeonholing off as just another left wing party i'm which actually they're a party of radicals and a party that inhabits that liberal tradition which of course you know the Labor Party before that was liberals versus conservatives so I don't know there are clearly labor people feel comfortable leaving it to the Democrats but also conservative people I think it really depends on have tripel they are instinctively . Thinking of is because of the the the. The back 198 when everyone's My money's gone blank or melon and the amount of defections of low votes he had at that point was the center ground and eventually you know there yeah. But there were also S.T.P. Members who then you know went and joined the conservative party and David Cameron's pulse and recouped and now a lot. Was a nasty paid member for example and there's you know that's coming out of my head but. There are moderates in the Conservative Party there are moderates in the Labor Party and because we have this. Way it's just kind of sensible to be in the big party if you want a political career people choose one or the other. Parties on NAFTA Maya basically saying if you're moderate if your center ground if you're. If you're not tribal get out there but I'm a class I guess is now just the source the safest most comfortable home for quoting . Big question out of a common sense of identity. And not just tag bunch of different. People that's the job for judgments and over the next months let's see if you can do it indeed suppose the readjustment of former Conservative M.P.'s Doug is because well Mark rectors to join the Ukip from because have to mean that in a few years back wasn't as dramatic it was you know within their remit as breaks it is within the Conservative Party was. You know I guess but you know it can have to posses is a correct policy kind of current draw it you know for instance it's been created if you're not all ready to lead the European Union do or die by the 31st no Danish necessary then you know well. At least 21 so so. These policies have been approached there's been a whole range of different people of course Douglas Collins welcome place to Ukip but some a moderate like you know that polls are now some Kima would. Kind of go not to action but they can go towards the center kind of time to get big enough to help them I think will we see more defections from the Conservative party to the Lib Dems I'm from labor even as well but I imagine the momentum is now within the Conservative Party with the $21.00 M.P.'s having their with pre moved in whatever else happens and not having to go it's now the party's now clearly defined as a break sit party expect to see more defectors who are not. Yeah I think I mean doesn't. Upset people in the Conservative Party. People in the Labor Party as well but just like you say. There's a kind of moment like in the conception that expulsion of 21 M.P.'s it's Moment us back which is kind of forcing people's hands one way or another and so I think it's a memento. With a small and I don't mean the labor faction but commend him for actual departures from the concept. But of course you know the Lib Dems will worry that that might make them look at the right wing and so I expect that just went and I have colleagues at the kind of playing into calming people on the late benches well. There's still the change you can independently M.P.'s still hope bunch of independents searching around you know actually you know it could it could grow into a coordinated move although it does depend depend doesn't it of the sins of the party and these individual members in the in a general election and I'm not sure whether the Lib Dems will be able to hold these defects is constituencies I mean is there road I know for example. Strachan Yeah I'm very familiar with the people in a way. For a general election to come and that doesn't bode well for the sitting M.P. . Went from Labor. But. I think. Is now going to stand in a different state he's going to stand in City of London in Westminster. Leaving the former Lib Dems candidate who was that has been kind of campaigning for a couple of years so the one standing in Stratham So all of that I hate to criminal This particular reason. To come out against the Lib Dems took him in will be standing somewhere else and I think you will see a lot of movement because you know some came to say sorry that's not quite back for the Lib Dems if you want to stop the Dems he might miss I don't know down the road . Or Gilford or something where there is a better chance. People talk about Luciana but my son if it should go to screen constituency with a huge Jewish population and she obviously is a kind of singled out. Of anti Semitic. And it's death for car here in a lot of Jewish people. So I don't think it's a simple A saying they won't be able to hold on to those people who defected may move to different states but you're completely right. In the voters are going to go with the. QUESTION When will that action because your people all of that women are saying they want to trying to a referendum instead of an election there's no there's no guarantee we'll have an election before 2022. Although the fact that these conservative or the strength of Conservative M.P.'s quite apart from the ones that their party will remove from the Conservative M.P.'s might be walking over to the Lib Dems. You would have thought the prime minister would want to stem the tide very quickly you could still get I mean he's like a wants general election but it's not in his gift. He can't decide on their general election if he's now got majority it's minus 44 I think it's hard to keep track about minus 44 which means that any time Jeremy Cooper most corner action he can. But the general sense I get is that Jeremy Cooper is going to hold off to make life as uncomfortable as he can support us don't at least POS the 31st of October so they can get. Elected But you know what that might be an election this year could easily note the election this year actually it was gearing up for it but but we could go down that referendum staggered to take 6 months to legislate for and actually so we could still got that B. Of the European Union arguing about BRICS that you know next summer do you know if any of the Labor M.P.'s have go itchy feet because again if if it's not it brings Johnson's gift to call an election he may need the support of Jamie Colby new again may feel that he needs to stem the tide of defections in his own party if they continue it. I think there are labor and pace yet which I recall been thinking about whether they should stay the question is would they join the Lib Dems or do they want to go on their own thing or are they going to stay and fight for the Labor Party for example you know when I say shit around him to try and kind of fight regained control of the Labor Party for for the forces of moderation I think we just don't know it's hard to see Jericho going there isn't a general election but you know I politics I stopped being predictable hasn't it has although in one way it is predictable in that these defections suggest certain to me prolly that there isn't a huge amount of intellectual policy or philosophical difference between the 3 main parties it's not a huge leap to go for the conservatives the Lib Dems it's not a huge leap to go from Labor to the Lib Dems It does feel as if and Except these might be fallin G.'s within those policies but it does seem as if it's not a huge leap to these policies have a lot. For the softer cool common but we. Don't see it like that what you would see these M.P.'s have in common that we're not getting I think a thing to understand is how how does opinion within all of the parties you know. So factions and movements and schools of thought and ideologies and you know the Conservative Party can include someone who thinks we should you know bring back the death penalty and also someone who thinks we should reform the justice system to tackle the offending and be nice to criminals in prison you know it is a huge. Range of thought under that banner of that concept exactly the same type of us your opinion within the Labor Party from people who just think we ought to tax a bit more and redistribute a bit more to people who think we should you know nationalize the commanding heights of industry and. Expel all of the rich people so. What happened those those things. That I was allowed to say this kind of leftist sect is quite similar to the right wing. And the Lib Dems are somewhere in the middle with a good sprinkle of liberalism and desire not to control people's lives probably Mackenzie their former chief advisor for the Prime Minister Nick Clegg afternoon will be talking used to off with the migrants living in Britain but 1st let's get the latest 5 Love headlines has come across from digital B.B.C. Census speak. B.B.C. Radio 5 live dates save the Lib Dems conference gets going later on the need to find a seat for the new M.P. Have been joined by Sam Jima from the conservatives he was expelled along with 20 other Tory M.P.'s for rebelling on bricks at more extraction David Cameron's memoir in the Sunday Times today it uses Boris Johnson of not believing in Bracks it and as for his former close friend Michael Gove he calls the bricks a tear of foam flecked for August for Wales rugby camps and Gareth Thomas is revealed as a showing of the positive it's all the B.B.C. It made him feel ashamed in suicide but it is now time to break the stigma and he says blackmail is threaten to expose him and the 30 year old man's been stamped to death in north London and respond by police in Edmonton last night a man a 40 has been arrested and is the father of news show Joe has the support of newly promoted nor it should defy the odds on a long injury list as they took down Manchester City 32 A Carrow Road they inflicted a 1st leg defeat on the Premier League champions since January despite having 8 1st team players out through injury nor at strike a team he says it was good to show they belong in the top division we only got 3 because it was important to start getting points. For the next game. So today we are. Manchester City are now 5 points behind leaders Liverpool who beat Newcastle 31 to extend their club record run of consecutive League victories to 14 games you're going to lop side recovered from going a goal down early on at Anfield of course it should not make you nervous but I was just didn't really accelerate in the right moments when we switched it was like a pass pass pass and I was at 2nd half where you want to filter it is really good to me Abraham had a hard trick for Chelsea in their 52 win at worlds while Tottenham Manchester United and Southampton also won the Scottish Premiership leaders Celtic made it 5 wins out of 5 after beating Hamilton one male England are in control of the 5th Ashes Test against Australia heading in today for the oval the home side closed on 313 for 8 in their 2nd innings to extend their lead to 382 runs Joe Donnelly scored 94 for England his highest Test score coming just 2 days after his wife gave birth to their 2nd child it's been incredible it would have been even more amazing if I'd managed to get to that 100 mark but you're over the moon it's always special and the new babies and you know the other day was it was amazing being able to be there the birth I missed my 1st birth by about 5 minutes my son it's a great story there and the family home now so looking forward to get back and see if you can hear more from Joe Denly in the T.M.S. Podcast that's available to download from B.B.C. Sounds gulfs assault Cup is beautifully poised heading into the final day Europe and the USA are level at 8 points all after the Americans had marginally the better of the Saturday afternoon 4 balls the pace of play though has been a contentious issue over the 1st 2 days with some rounds taking 5 and a half hours plus Englishwomen Georgia hall agrees the players really ought to speed up how it could definitely be. Asking quite annoyed at the creature front which just. It seems I mean Celine every day kind of happy we're waiting all the time and I know conditions is tough but you know E.D. Make sure what before you hit a golf ball so I mean I don't like to trade saying there's more analysis of the cup on the cut podcast which is out now Britain's broke Whiston took gold in the 8200 meter individual medley in a new world record time at the world Paris Swimming Championships in London meanwhile G.B. Sarah story has won her 2nd gold medal of the parasite World Championships after defending her C. 5 road race title in the Netherlands and 11 year old Skye Brown has won a bronze medal of the skateboard park World Championships in some Paolo That's the latest from B.B.C. Sport This is B.B.C. Radio 5 Live on digital B.B.C. Sound Smart come on. The morning forecast in Scotland work after a really wild night particular so cross the shuttles with some of the gospel of that seated 70 miles an hour it looks those going to be a bright windy start in just about all parts of northern and eastern Scotland that wind gradually easing through the course of that I basically through the afternoon from the word go there will be a lot of cloud across western areas and it may well be that by around by the mid morning we'll see some rain getting across the north channel into central and southern parts of Scotland but by mid afternoon this should have cleared south of the border that's leave most areas dry just wanted to showers into the far north of Scotland and a wee bit of sunshine to gradually work its way from north to south across all parts. In the range of my 11 to 15 into Northern Ireland cloudy right from the word go here a lot of cloud around and thick enough for her to be bits and pieces right occasion of the moderate burst or the warning but after lunch should dry out for the most part of the sunshine will be in short supply throughout the day. In the range of $11.00 to $15.00. And finally to England and Wales quite a bit of cloud across more than one. In parts for a good part of the day and near that weather fronts across the north of England you'll find some rain gradually working its way a little bit further sided through the day it may just bump into the north vigilance and the north of Wiles' by roundabout Teton further to the side of the base cross the middle of the East Anglian southern counties of England it should be a bright fine really chilly start to the day and it should hold on to a famine the sunshine until later on in the off the name of the cloud will spill in from the north to all of us the far side of the east responding to the sunshine will be a high of run $26.00 underneath the cloud in the north with a we've got a right to be closer to 17 the labor of love weather. You need to get rid of that piece of paper Marcus Yes but how I don't care how fun it brush it away could I just. I'll just carry on putting the bit. Yeah I guess you could do that by paper T.V. License I've paperless. Managing your T.V. License needn't be a drama go paperless a T.V. Licensing Doc EK slash paper less than a family's. Digital. This is B.B.C. Radio 5 and coming up on Father love love love commentary on Tyson Fury vs auto valet and we're expecting the fighters to enter the ring at around 5 o'clock might be low a bit before low but after that but 1st let's look ahead to political events next week on Monday Prime Minister Boris Johnson will be in Luxembourg to meet the president of the European Commission. And the E.U. Chief negotiator Michel Barnier for talks about a new deal we've heard a lot from employees and political correspondents about Boris Johnson's controversial do or die broke that pledge and what it could mean for us but about foreign citizens living in this country how do they feel about the prime minister's plans to get the U.K. Out of European Union by the end of the next month over the next 2 nights we'll be talking to 4 Europeans and one Australian living here and they'll be giving me their thoughts about breaks it freedom of movement and whether they still call the United Kingdom their home I began with a chemist a Danish freelance journalist living in London when I came here some 27 years ago in 1902 to be exact I actually met my then husband when he traveled to Sweden for the European championship in football and Britain got knocked out he had some friends down in Denmark so why did you have to bring out my. European you know. Living with leaving willingly apparently and it was the same you know to the. Treaty and subsequently changed his mind about domestic treaty. For more complicated reasons that. You know it's not straightforward but that's another story how does a press. Situation and thank you all states is here after 27 years well I just find it really odd suddenly having to apply to stay in a country that made my home for 27 years I mean I shouldn't have any problem paying for it was for Settle status you have to live here for 5 years ago he lived here for much longer. Work continuously I have my family here. It just you know it feels a bit like you've been in a marriage and suddenly it's not valid anymore maybe I feel a bit like Jerry Hall when she was married to me you know I have a great appreciation is suddenly turned around and said. Marriage on Bali where we bosses is no longer stand and the High Court agreed if you know it's just it's a principle more than anything I mean the process I'm meant to be quite simple now but I just you know I was just waiting for the prime minister to stand on the steps of Downing Street and say you will automatically be granted your right to stay here we're going to inscribe and that in law I mean Britain voted breaks it Britain's choice but I'd least have to decency because Britain joined the E.U. And it's always I've always thought of the country as being a country you know of manners and polite country and I just thought so and suddenly I just feel this divide that now we had I know we've been very privileged especially as you citizens from from from the Western countries as opposed to Eastern Europe as well and you know not to speak about not to mention the treatment of people from further afield from other parts of the world. But it just suddenly there was the divide you know and I was shocked to discover that I got British I spent I got a dual nationality kid been here for 27 years and my rights are actually not guaranteed in law. Your husband can stay your children don't have a problem when you have a daughter you're right and so you're not old and she's British She is British to her father through and other blood for things passport for her as well but she doesn't have to apply for any particular status here in the U.K. As a result as well. As here is well else has been in this country 27 years you've been in this country 46 years what's your status at the moment. We have decided to retain our Danish passports. Not because of a lack of affinity with the U.K. As well on the very country we have virtually gone native but when it comes to one's nationality it's like trying to change your blood you know you don't do that or you have no wish to forgo our danish citizenship that's our heritage and we're very pleased and proud that's Strangely enough our 3 children who have grown up and been educated in this country and have married in Clay Shaw spouses have also kept their Danish passports which in a way is irrational irrational and another way touching We are very pleased that they have retained those affinity. Does is there a difference between their states is because they were born in this country or B. They have Danish probables you know it's a passport that dictates your nationality. So with a like us would have to we'll have to apply for several status. Which we can do any time between now and the end of 2020 and we haven't Russians or it we know we will . Have to do it but unlike elsewhere I just can't get excited about having to complete a form it just isn't material to me at all what you mean for me is the message that is since that suddenly you thought we were as much a part of this nation I mean you can be for against the E.U. But we and you can wish to in freedom of movement but Britain joined the E.U. Be deemed part of the same community for this amount of time we came here in good faith we came here window when those who supplied under freedom we made a home here so it's like for me it's it is emotional I do feel I do feel a bit bitter I do feel angry I might just say yes he's a paper there and it's to miss is that it sends that's why didn't the element has been so busy. With all aspects of negotiations maybe not so busy anymore but they have been very. How you know not to take the time out to inscribe an hour by it's in law from the beginning and instead making us bargaining chips putting us on the negotiation table which I just never think should have happened that's just a little bit too emotive for me I just can't get excited about it. And you are a supporter of Briggs it as well are you know I am indeed why why why would you want to support. An outcome that puts you in a worse situation with regards to your status and nothing to do with me this is to do with the United Kingdom. I'm a pawn in a game and I. Was headhunters when I was 29 year old so come on live in a country and take up a position on a contract which would have entitle me to return to then Margaret after 3 years if we had wanted that was a company's offer to us instead we grew roots and as I said before Payton Lee went native and we have become British and all but passports and. A. Don't see any conflict between. The. Having a Danish passport and being fully immersed in pretty society so I arrived in this country 973 just as the U.K. Was joining with the. Then E C. And I was here for commercial reasons hired by a company to start up its European venture which they thought I could help with and I was then and for many years a fully fledged European in the sense that I would have in 1975 in the then referendum I would clearly have been for the maximum integration at that time of the United Kingdom into the E C I retained that view for many years and debated fiercely against euro skeptics. Who felt that the country the United Kingdom should have stuck with its Commonwealth roots rather than become a European renegade my views changed somewhat gradually but as I just mentioned the Maastricht Treaty in 92 for me that was a step too far the threshold that was then crossed and kept getting crossed by other subsequent treaties the Lisbon and Dublin 3 days and I changed my mind utterly during the decade following Maastricht and felt that as the moves towards ever greater integration and towards a genuine federal structure based in. Brussels mistrust work and not least with many rulings made by the European Court which I thought offended British sensibilities. During that period I firmed up my views that this country had made a mistake by not standing our way from these integration is efforts meticulously after the turn of the century since since the Lisbon and Dokken treaty us OK we are where we are let me bring in Rym clay sheds who you understand room of applied for settled States is now what was the process like. So because I arrived in year on year year and a half so under the 5 years I applied for pre-settlement status so the process was easier than opening a bank account my only problem that I use an i Phone and was supposed to have enjoyed so my colleagues handed me the phone and it took me. Less than 10 minutes and in 24 hours I had my letter telling me I can remain here for 5 years with all of the same rights so I was not really surprised that's why I expected as being from privilege country as friends is and what your rights entitle you to have so I was not really shocked or emotional of course is different from people that have been here for more and have to prove that they've been ear for for for for some years so I had the bit of difficulty to understand the way U.K. Media have been covering the bricks that there would be dramatic and sequences especially for vulnerable people in this country to access the medicines may be the situation of food and everything but when it comes to what we have been going through as E.U. Citizens it's will be a bit in distance to complain compared to what all countries are currently doing to people trying to have a better life in the E.U. Something for other people that are going through harsh migration policies both in the U.K. In friend Spain then Mark exit him and that shocked me way more than asking us to feel or date of birth you know up so you have no sympathy for what else is going through and indeed word is good it's not about the individual obviously so if people of that feel betrayed by the U.K. And right now because they feel like they belong here and everything I can only be sympathetic with the person obviously so I feel empathy for individual and their stories I'm just taking a more distant more distance on what's happening and trying to for example when I see that 800 you see doesn't apply through the wind rush schemes that that make. Quite mad that knowing what the scandal of the rich was for many people to think that as a new citizen you were in that state and this is just a big lack of awareness of what being a new citizen mean right now in 200-1000 what migration policies actually mean for most of the people in this world I mean I'm not suggesting for one minute that it's anything like that it's in any way comparable to the disgraceful treatment by the British government of to reinvest innovation I'm not for one moment suggesting that at all even though there are some celerity similarities in in the sense that they didn't have documentation we don't have documentation we all became here when we were allowed to do so. But it for different reasons. I mean I think the process has been very very much simplified Now you've obviously. Completed the process very recently before that I believe it was maybe like 80 pages you had to fill in. I mean. I'm not saying that's a big thing to go through and I think you know I partly put it off because I knew there was a simplified version coming in not that I would have had any trouble filling in the 80 page document I'm sure you had to document each journey in and out of the country for for 5 years I think you had to you know showed you what you continuously that that's all been simplified now but for me it's really just a misses that sense and I think that matters but the point the rims making that is an interesting way you're right about the message that is sense in book a sense of that is a moment from all of the point that rim makes is important because it's about how you're treated if you're from outside the European Union as well as how you're treated your status is and art and I appreciate some of your listeners might think that I sound no no it's all that you know no no no no it's all no no no it's all and you know I'm not proud of the way my own each of country no that's treated you know as you know today it's not about the way that maybe the next time but not today it's not about the way Denmark has treated other people but I would like to hear. About the way that all of this affects people from outside of the European Union with us as well is representative from Australia Josh hats and hello hello and now we know that Australians have had in the past as a special relationship with the United Kingdom it's been relatively straightforward as of Australians to go on their big overseas trip which is often enough based in the least predicated from the way and outwards has changed now with the European or with Britain leaving the European Union so that there hasn't been. Any change in terms of the way that Britain deals with immigration from countries outside of the outside of the E.U. As yet understand that there's a there's a wide paper which the government has released and then I imagine in terms of particularly when the government tries to negotiate trade trade deals often movement of people becomes tied up in these in these frayed trade deals so potentially in the future there will be there will be changes when it comes to that but as of as of now there's been no real difference between the immigration system for people outside of the today from what it was before at 26 during the in the referendum straight food that is if an Australian to get the. Care compared let's say to how difficult it is for somebody from Africa to get a visa into this country so I mean I can't really speak in terms of what somebody is from say the African continent would have to go through for a visa. But in terms of the experience that that I went through it's all countries a basically supposedly treated exactly the same if you're from outside of the E.U. So there is certain different tiers I think there's 5 different T. Is of of of the immigration program so I think the one that you referred to the working holiday visa I think is to turn the T.V. 5 youth Mobility Program and that's based on reciprocal agreements between the countries so likewise you've got astray in young people wanting to come and have a working holiday here in the U.K. And that's based on reciprocal agreement from the U.K. A young people who want to go and do exactly the same in Australia so the process basically it's it's. Certainly complicated I'm here on a T. One and there's a huge amount of paperwork documentation that's required. And what is that all these are so you said the one yes so it's a tier one in the So it's a entrepreneur visa which I'm over here on. Tier 2 I think is the general working visa. Card Member the the other 2 is that yes so what you have to comply with to get you say an entrepreneurial these a bit Anybody can claim that they're in Entrepreneur Khan that were the qualifications so from memory the what I had to show is that I had. A large amount of money to bring over here to invest in a new business and then that basically granted me an initial visa for 3 years and then after that 3 years I had I didn't have to prove that I've employed 2 people. And the business is operating as a going concern so there's there's kind of a 2 step hurdle and so it's not until the 50 which you've been in the country of which are then absolutely able to apply for a 1st settled status Vanessa Emma Russo is with us as well and Vanessa your regime from its city Tell me what the impact of bricks it has been so far on you and your family's status yes. We were family of 4 so my mom my dad and my sister and me and we actually all have very different situations and say I was born in Italy that my my parents and me over when I was sure and we've been here for the last 30 years my parents actually originally met in London and my doubts and. Had me very quickly and got married. And this choice in your life. All of a simulator I guess not sound like this and not only on which I'm too British to be Italian I'm too it seems. And I might also if you're came around in the to us for us for the benefit of your legal status is your you're considered to be telling one I have an Italian passport and I applied to settle status a couple months ago after a lot of putting off I was really hesitant to. Have angry and a scandal that I had in the beginning and then I had a few sleepless nights about whether or not I was going to be granted it or not. And I was and I was a slut so I really wish to several lucky isn't quite the right word but then my mum applied just as a state just inch even though she's been here 30 years she's been a bit of a housewife and you know what your job here and there even though she had a career in charge kind of stalling she only got 3 settled status which did make a lot of sense would certainly. Well we don't know she has to actually send us some more evidence of her actually being here continuously in the last 5 years but she has been here continuously for 30 years so that was so just very very disappointing hang with rim with us Rym is a lawyer as well what is preset all stages means preset the situation is the offer that it isn't that I've been in England for in the U.K. For less than 5 years can access so we're not we're not entitled to get a settlement that US and then Lois to remain 5 years in the U.K. Has with basically the same rights or we can work we have access to the N.H.S. Our situation is not going to 10 for the next 5 years of course that situation you should be entitle with to when you've been here for less than 5 years but for the case of ministers mother she should obviously get the settlements that is another. The sentiment one I have that terrifies a very in Venice or Oh I know she isn't she didn't get it on the on the system and you mentioned my sister indeed your younger sister this is my in my younger sister who followed in my footsteps has actually gone on for like a gap year and a stray or. Quite. Yes A She's been there 2 years and she's been trying to apply from overseas and she can't seem to get me up to work so she is actually working it to be honest she needs to come back and apply for her. Even though she was actually born in Nikkei you feel that breaks it is breaking up your family were to be honest yeah I mean we were settled special this whole thing happened and now we have she have to apply for a settled status and it's breaking my family up because my dad he's 60 next week he he wants to retire and he doesn't he doesn't feel like he can retire here he's going to China retirement in Italy my mom wants to be here my sister's in Australia want to come back I I at a loss kind of. You know where my real thought we were going to grow old together and I don't think it's very possible right now isn't it just a formality to fill in these forms to apply you inside to to apply for a settlement States's pre-sets I'm an old permanent settlement States's Oh and Babs even applied for a British passport isn't it just simply a formality to to talk to your family together again to glue the family together again yeah I suppose so while I sound like this when I went to school. I did my education have worked since I was 16 I am a productive member of society why should I apply this is my home. OK this is the 1st part of our conversation with out guest this morning we're talking about the impact of breaks it on basically people living in the case of foreign nationalities and you heard there from Vanessa Emma rose we spoke to George Patton is from Australia we spoke and said El securest from Denmark. Valentijn from Denmark as well and Rym cliche that is French will return.