Being persistent rain moving slowly so it's through the day sunny spells elsewhere but with blustery show as for the photo 1st d.v.c. Fine lines it's something that affects millions around the bars we once have a family on Tuesday we're marking National fertility rate we'll be discussing the issues that by men and women speaking to the experts and hearing people stories of trying to conceive we just weren't expecting it so it was a massive shock there's been a loss of very slow times and I'll be linking our lives with Jeremy Vine and b.b.c. Radio to we'll be discussing why this is still such a difficult subject to talk about 3 hard to make people understand the kind that your email 5 life fits in if you specials throughout the day on Tuesday b.b.c. Radio 5 Live season and l m d t c radio's funny town life. Thank you very much for joining us live the last hour for We've been talking with the hundreds of migrant workers employed in car washes which cost you around about a fiver Now here's a question how many people within some of those car washes are being exploited you might find they're very very old banned from talking to you about what their contract is but you may find unable to speak people stop because not all of them have any English language that they're able to use a lot of these companies will employ a manager who is the English speaker to come to his or literally the place to look 3 pounds an hour or they're providing accommodation needed to get to the cost of the accommodation from the wages they give us they don't know what a payslip is or never seen Will they have no idea about minimum wage they have no idea about would have no idea about employment law and live being exploited left right and center. Here's how to get into this is b.b.c. 5 live coals 480-080-8590 knowing a 693 text 8505 write text will be charged to your standard message right plus the all privacy notice me. Did you case last 5 Live. In d.c. Radius. Right newspaper time what we do every night. Midnight we have a look through tomorrow morning's newspapers Saturdays papers of course with traders say Mitchell Hello trader are you Stephen Hello there Emma Wolf Hello Emma and evening good evening they think this horrible horrible stories dominating the newspapers tomorrow every paper. Most of them have this haunting final text of Laurie victim who's $26.00 is the front page the sun crossing is dangerous but so was staying after $39.00 people die says independent being smuggled across the Channel refugee stay tell me below why they're still risking at all to reach Britain and so it goes on dream of a new life in Britain similar have a life Trita Yeah I mean it was the independent stream of a new life that really cool my eye and I'm sure like everybody else in this country when this news started breaking I was just horrified I mean what a tragedy and it reminds you when you're talking about people smuggling because often we talk about criminals pulls roots that we're actually talking about human beings and and their lives and remove a life my I because why why do people do it I mean so much to continue to discussion you 40 had on the show the Guardian in this spotlight investigation strand in the paper and online they did a big piece about you know young Vietnamese actually coming here and I'm many of the young boys the men allude to the kind of cannabis industry and they're locked up in houses and have to work day and night and the young women and girls end up in now boss and then now bar was the one that really caught my eye because for years I don't do my nails anymore but fee is I for increasing it now balls that were run by the new. Amaze and there was a and now the 1st time that anywhere was prosecuted with this was in bar for what they found with 2 fit means girls who were working there and they were being paid about 30 pounds a month and they were sleeping on a mattress in the owner's attic and working 60 hours a week and their families paper 2 in 124-0000 pounds and then their perpetually. In debt it's a terrible terrible feeling and it takes a tragedy like this I hope to get something done because this can actually carry on this is all for terrible it's heartbreaking. Yeah I mean I feel really quite uncomfortable about this the headline in The Times in the Telegraph. You know this is a says this is a person this is this young woman who is featured on the front of both those papers and we've got her dying words from her text you know or what we think perhaps if we know no one has been identified as yet but what we think her dying words and the detail in The Times is absolutely horrifying I mean they talk and I didn't know this but they talk about these migrants being sealed inside these refrigerator containers I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't even step inside one of those and close the door let alone that they're sealed inside them but what the traffickers what Vietnamese specifically Vietnamese traffickers specifically do is they put the temperature about minus 4 to get people in and then they turn it right down to minus 20 while people are in there because they wouldn't go in if it was minus 20 it would be too cold but if they left to minus 4 then the port authorities would be suspicious so I mean that is absolutely horrendous the idea of being sealed inside one of these containers for many many hours if not days and these are people and as data says these are young This is a young woman featured on the front but with a whole life ahead of her she's 26 years old and I'm glad you raise nail bars as well because Stephen I was listening to you talking about car washes and you know you were talking about the knocks the sort of toxic chemicals in South and it's the same thing in there and I don't drive and really you don't drive either Ga So we don't use I don't use car washes but from a sort of female perspective and I don't really get my nails done professionally but lots and lots of my friends who are well enough to you know well off enough to know better are going along and paying 5 pounds 10 pounds have the nails done and these young women are being paid almost nothing and it is it's very kind of predominant in monks and time I there are lots of Thai women around 11 Vietnamese. And the enemies as well and the chemicals used in nail in manicures and pedicures and we understand why I'm saying this there will be some proper Neil Barr so obese on the order of call it yeah really and to last until the movie's like yeah yeah but just like car washes I'm talking about the cheap and cheerful ones where you go and you know 5 or 10 a and you know it's fine if you pop in once a week once a fortnight but if you walk in that whole time with the with the chemicals yeast and the little sanding machine in order. It's always really really not good for you and there is exploitation going on there as well so that was my kind of equivalent of the car wash experience because so you know we don't really are asked people we don't ask and we don't talk to them about what they're paid and here's and they are very little English and here's a question it's an obvious question come because they're not underground these places they're there they're in the middle of exactly London is about all over town and city where so hall you come we're turning a blind eye to what. This because I want you to go along and get it manicured cheap pedicure and we don't really talk to people that we don't really ask him about their lives now is what I think but I sometimes feel you know one on not sure it's the custom is you know it's not for a customer to do that for some organization government organization to make. It it's been a pretty it's it's not a custom is fake and if you start to talk to people I would be frightened if they were speaking to me when I left what would actually. Happen to them I've been to Vietnam I've been to Vietnam are 2 very different times I went to Vietnam when it wasn't so open and people kept themselves to themselves and then I went like 15 years old and what was happening to me was people kind of gaffa need me when I was talking to other people and I also why this was happening they were saying they're trying to improve their English You've got to come. The tree has changed and I understand the area that this young girl came from if it was indeed her in the lorry there's been this huge environmental disaster a real big chemical spill so it's you know really going into the land the fishing and people are thinking about different ways that they you know need to make money and of course one of the ways is to particularly feel young is to come to the west is for government and government agencies to make sure if there are issues which now pass and I think of course statistic here if I can find it from here we go to the Salvation Army jury July 2019 to July 29th. They were the nationality that was referred to them the most was actually young Vietnamese men and boys surely that feeds interest to government and therefore they must know maybe they're working in the cannabis industry make label in the hall and it's so that's where they should spotlight and spot checks or their efforts as well I just see and it's fine that should be sorry no there's just no well I've just only the same to say I'm from Billy tonight says Hi Stephen I'm a local councillor for a local authority in England I sit on our licensing committee and I had my car clean this week for the 1st time I felt uncomfortable looking through the glass at our young men and women were being controlled by 2 English speakers your show tonight is the catalyst for me asking for investigation to ensure that everything's happening properly Thanks again but yeah that's fantastic and reader I kind of disagree because yes there is definitely a while for cracking down on legislation and licensing obviously I mean in the same way you have to get a license to run a betting shop all premises should be license we should demand we should we know when we can buy food or you go to you demand standards you ask questions about anything. Why on earth should and you and I both said that we don't particularly going get our nails done professionally but why shouldn't we talk to people and ask questions the thing is though if they are there illegally they are going to be they are naturally going to be frightened if your papers are. This is the 3rd car here this is the 3rd time tonight are you going to resist this question are we not asking as many questions as we would if these people were white. Are we is there's some type of but there's plenty to go let me let me compliment me continue with the point 1st of all. Are we presuming that the people in that we see in these very lowly paid jobs are are we making a presumption that because they are our side of this country they're prepared to tolerate it fewer standards they're used to not living our way of life because they're not from this country and therefore we're more tolerant to letting them get on I think there's no no no no no no it's I tell you and most of us are deeply uncomfortable and aware that you're not comfortable Well I say when I'm sitting there but they also may not have legal paper legal documentation and that makes them frightened and I've spoken to clean as in people about who don't I don't . Know what to and it's a frightening situation and you don't want to be tracked if you've come in under a lorry you haven't come through the legal channels I'm not criticizing in any way I'm just saying you don't necessarily have any right to stand up and say yes I'm being trafficked Yes I'm sleeping on the floor yes I'm being paid 20 pounds an hour or one pounds an hour whatever it is said that is why it's not that people don't care it's not that we don't know. You know and I think it cuts across. Color Lines as well I remember I start my employment life as you know working in the hospitality industry as a chambermaid and also in the catering as a white trees and it's in these low paying job that you find people here who come here illegally and when I was working I met people from all over the world different colors who were working here and I think it's might be about. Government agencies may be as cells turn in a blind eye I think a very good example of this was do you remember when we used to have lots of it turned out they were Koreans he was selling counterfeit D.V.D.'s everywhere and people would happily buy them until the story started breaking that these people were often brought in by people smugglers with big debts because I had to pay huge amounts of money to get into Britain and fairly quickly what I notice because it was happening a lot where I live people stopped actually buying D.V.D.'s people were fairy uncomfortable particularly about a lot of these people were often women on their own with these things that they were actually selling So I think the public would do something but it has to be with the government doing something at the same time let's let's have we're still staying at home tonight you know at 591613 or pick up a former here of course until 1 o'clock it's 5 life Piers Bella calling us from where Bella. I don't believe me where you call is troubling I'm calling for my I can't expose stand that on what would you like to say. I was using about the car wash curation and I'm. In my mid sixty's I still drive I must say that I have post spaces and I've seen. They just. Work in terrible conditions and I've never used them I have to say I've never used them but I never ever had the courage to let my contribution. But I think what can we do what can you do. The research I can on that he said that people should go into these places and should also see the record for chemicals and I think only $0.06 a liter and I have a little faulty. How can I post agree to anything but I drive I don't use it but I would just drive away if I should do something I really should and I don't know and never wanted and by the way the media has a huge role to play here yeah a huge role and you know people like myself that. I have the very privileged position of working in a. Highly resourced organization like the b.b.c. We've got responsibility to. To probe into this but here's what an individual could do you could bring up your local council and you could save your console but. I don't know I don't know what was the license for that where's the license for planning permission for the. Mine What are these people being paid. I think my 1st step must be just as Stephen has said just to go into my. Tomorrow and say there is a free car wash crisis. Yes And I'll tell you I fully understand why I'm saying this we do need to be careful also that we're not targeting legitimate businesses here there are legitimate washes and also. There will be people from have come into this country and are being treated properly are acting lawfully and are paying taxes and are being protected by responsible employers. But also going to have all right if I think there is one person who is being treated badly even if there were 10 that are being treated well that one person has a right to be protected you could go further. Say we've all got a responsibility to. I don't know there's just not there and your primary not spoken male to mind. My worry with this is always and I know this isn't an ounce of my worry is always that you know these places that pop up they pop up somewhere else you go in you investigate you know with lovely middle class and I include myself in this middle class and we go in and we investigate and if one gets sacked and they close down and they open up somewhere else and that person's lost their job you know and they've lost any sense a lifelong. Natural. That should terrible argument. But I feel our thing it's. Really that oh yeah I think if you go into some of these places you don't know what you're going into actually and you need to. Yeah but I think that's the thing to say people I don't think should be going in particular feelings all run by criminal enterprises you do not want to put yourself in in harm's way I think the best approach is what you were talking about Bella is ringing up your counsel and just asking questions just clarifying it might be a legitimate business it might turn out not to be a legitimate business but you will have at least raised the questions with the right people in your community I think. Tonight the challenge for so slightly Emma said that look you know you close these places Diana more will pop up and hard can you control them and all of the well you know the government well it's pretty mind to them and it seems to be able to have a licensing structure around pubs. Around the whole in terms of battling. Tearing But why can't there be can you are losing your job over this no I'm not all right I don't there's a rule so it doesn't of course that could be controls I'm just saying think about the individuals as well thinking about the desperation of getting a horribly badly paid job but it's a bit of money I'm just saying I'm not saying it should stop us from intervening in the minimum wage. Course I do so hard. And Ok pedal to them this is what I'm saying no of course they're entitled to it you see you characterize my argument so kind of black black and white you know that's not what I'm saying I'm just saying there is always a person behind this and you know you go and we go in and we interfere and we say to the lady in the nail bar you shouldn't be working for 3 pounds an hour that's dreadful and you know what she loses her job great and we go off about it and she's lost her job so great I was thinking that we're learning what. I really don't know you that go exactly and then say to the marital go find your company said to a senior did you want to receive an ambassador and parish can polish that crowns a little halos because they feel better come on the whole lot more with us just ridiculous isn't it I really I see what I'm saying you know I think you're sad and you're being ridiculous and this is why. I don't like a whole lot. This is why would you're saying surely is ridiculous emma if you believe in a minimum wage and you believe that there is a threshold in our society below which we do not go a lot of different way so we have laws in this country that the kids certain thresholds blue which we don't go in terms of animal cruelty in terms of how we treat each other in society lots of different ways right into the minimum wage all of that kind of stuff so you know it is to characterize the point that I'm making which is it is right to intervene if. The point but the point of desperation can't imagine you can't put yourself in hearing I think you yourself know I've worked many menial jobs I know you have to I know we've all started out you worked in a petrol station as I've heard in Belfast I've worked as a cleaner I've worked in a way in you know as a waitress all of that stuff look what I'm saying is if you were an undocumented migrant worker you can't show I don't know a pen an address passport national shutdown but you can't show any of that proof. It is difficult you know if you want to if your business and no matter how badly it's run close down I don't want you're out of work you're out of work brilliant. Well you feel like. I don't want any of these people I want to try and help them as time of him should. Never go to one of these cargo ships and say you know why you have no right I would be happy to verify you for calling us thank you very much indeed almost to Keith the Northwich Hello Kate Hi Stephen I believe you get Nigerian angry that's bad well you. Know I'm in the. Same 76 years of age. As getting the point I want to make of listening to a conversation that people make but I'm talking about commanding the channel I don't want to name a supermarket which a lot today Mr Calamy name is none to which there is a major supermarket in them which we just had a car wash in the car block for at least the sun the last 7 or 8 years. Ago and they come up to you but I keep We need to be careful here because I daresay that in the way that you've described the people would know which is well know this have had the double checked in my mind is at least reasonable so to accompany it right but but you go again you hassled. You don't take the 5 pounds I've never done it because I won't but I've gone to the management enlist supermarket and said Why are you putting up with this why I come to this supermarket say if you want your car washed you go to the Cherilyn side if you don't pay the supermarket a 5 pound and they pay the car washes. Right. That showed that that solves the situation but enough people using these co watches but you know there's no control what do you think's going on across the country let's broaden this what do you think it's all happening it's happening everywhere but what I'm saying is it's all about education. We're never going to solve the whole problem but there are educated people out there who will know that if they get in the car washed 5. They're going to illegal. Now and why can't the supermarket have a big sign up and say to his convenience just convenient job the car wash while you are in shopping why Jonze you go to the main desk and say that one must go washed you don't pay them the 5 pound they organize the washing I hear you are hearing Thank you Kate All right it's nice to know aren't Oh hello how are you I'm doing alright tonight I'm all for the holidays and how often are. Yes I've been listening for the house and now I believe it is. I don't think that. People should be exploited like they are. Because everybody wants to have food in their bellies and everybody wants service of a head. I wouldn't. I don't I wouldn't I don't drive so I don't. Use the. Place anyway and what's wrong with a guest book and soap and water and doing your own cause anyway I had ties I thought people gave. My hand by Natalie have my say. Thank you yes. I don't have a dog. Yet. I would take you on up a dark red tear I wouldn't tell you that it was going to win yeah anyway as also I wouldn't go to anyone that. I wouldn't have to go in any way and fail that anybody is being exploited because it's it's not dry and as the last Corliss said she wouldn't really do things like that and. If you if you don't if you don't care it's right to go and get something for 5 pounds like it was something in the shops you don't go and do it it go and do it as you try and do it. If you go anywhere you go into the charity shop sorry thank you very much and they were going to pause there just to take unusually back with Trita and Emma looking at the front page stories if you want to pick up the phone to have 563 it's 5 life and here comes the latest news from the b.b.c. . On digital b.b.c. Sad. B.b.c. Radio 5 and get my girl the b.b.c. Needs own 5 life police investigating the discovery of 39 bodies in the refrigerator Lorien Essex have arrested a 4th person the questioning a 48 year old man from Northern Ireland on suspicion of conspiracy to traffic people and suspicion of manslaughter it's believed at least 6 of the victims could be from Vietnam even Bassett is it agreed Another Brick City extension is needed following a meeting in Brussels we won't know until Monday or Tuesday that what the new deadline actually is the 2nd man has been charged with 2 counts of murder into the tent city after 2 tain ages was stamped to death last weekend at a hence party Milton Keane's. 22 will appear in court in the morning and the U.K.'s for children's commissions say parents have. No idea just how easily young people can get hold of class a drugs and they will and social media is being used by the dealers to specifically target children and teenagers survive live news Katie has the support and while less the city of equalled the Premier League's record when as a thrush Southampton I nail at a very rainy say marries a new Manchester United have done it before they beat it switch 9000995 Leicester led by 5 goals at half time off to bribe but Chima shone red following a v.a. All review tackle Perez scored a hat trick which was that much by Jamie Vadi tucking away a penalty with the last kick of the game's move up to 2nd in the table and he says they knew what they were aiming for Jonny Evans remind 7 and as he 1st let us know when I think it was 6 now c'mon over saying that we could get our records it's win by 9 goals and every goal at any moment to get back started and then matters is what to free kick in front of celebration John Adams What's happy about that. And the end with with my straight play but 1st and foremost it was all about a performance well moves him up to top score in the Premier League this so far this season that's 9 goals but a performance to forget the Southampton boss Ralph hasn't had till says the buck stops with him in the performance of course as everybody has seen a disaster today and have to go to China and take the 100 percent responsibility for what happened today because a team have never seen a team acting like this like we did today and this is something I must take a 100 percent responsibility for and because there was no no no fight for for anything England head coach Eddie Jones does it's time for his side to write their own story as they get ready to face champions New Zealand in their Rigby Well Cup semi final this morning recalled fly home of George forward Pez up again with Captain Owen Farrell at sensor while the pack is the same as in their cool to find a win in the face the All Blacks 3 times out World Cups and have never won. Well you just want to attack them like it's a very New Zealand they can't sit in the Spectator the shy they've got to be on the stage you've got to be lighting the script there and they have jobs tonight the script you I missed a moment here on 5 Live we got full live commentary for you build up starts from 8 the Great Britain rugby league lions are getting ready to re-emerge on to the international stage off a 12 year is they face tone of this morning in the 1st of their full game still in the southern hemisphere you can follow that on b.b.c. 2 from 730 there was Hamilton finished 5th fastest in 2nd practice at the Mexico Graeme pray that subsequent quickest in 1st practice Sebastian Vettel was quickest in 2nd and Tyson Fury says he's still up for Feb rematch with w.b.c. World heavyweight champion in February fury makes his w w e wrestling debut on Thursday but hypes return to boxing in 2020 I want to chop a new 5 year old kid out like Pen Cracow me some about how maybe out of a fight muscle memory much and I know who knows what happens in December hopefully offer a flashback to Walter in February while they're in jail and maybe I'll fight in December and she latest now from p.b.c. Sport really still coming up this November don't fight like the fight loves those extra England's cricket is travel to New Zealand bowls are still true because I believe the one season rule the clubs you can hear the way many goals to go down with the World Cup Campion's will be decided in your hobbies was the message that I am the focal continues with life common traits from the Premier League and Champions League to keep my November body like Fox Sports Extra This is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live shows like the on the b.b.c. Sounds that will stay with you no less can result out of bio it 1 o'clock take your coat off. Your super hot owners Well once a year it's served as the roof. Making. Yourself in a studio like your your. Like he replied ing and they ask I'm a lucky retarding sit up straight men are created Yeah well I think we should get as a bad and here I've decided I've been here long enough to know what I know you know and I will know when I've actually made it on the station when they hiding when they dying when they dying go a microphone. By bad. And they ceased even present the program from the luxury of your bad then I will admit you made it you made it clearly you are where you are now I am and you reclining as if you know your bed as a life and as a marker friend dangling in front of it's not really working with me there is it if you think about it it is when we do in our rigs when the clocks go back so I'll speak to you about that's a bar not of course the cost of much more night yes the game. And you know that we have our annual musical song that Dalton just to let you all know a period since arriving doesn't hoist your cool so I should I feel that I have to be owner pull towards the licensee parachuter you do so Dalton charges an extra our 1st. School for it doesn't make it to talk. I tell you 3 years this man should be Briggs would take this out more and take your coat off my heart for you I should know that what do you got for us Ok you know obviously the whole country is being crippled by the story of the 39 migrants who died at the back of refrigerated truck container when trying to find out why why people are prepared to risk their lives on such a perilous journey to get to the u.k. Well we've got a proper migrant story for you tonight on up all night the story of a man who left. Fell into the hands of traffic is migrated across Europe walking most of that distance to get to the promised land as it were and the most dangerous bit of all was literally standing away on a truck as well we believe that many of these migrants did it anyway the big question is why why do it and that's one of the questions I ask him and you hear that later on in the program we're also in the u.s. Capital for regular updates on game 3 in the baseball World Series is the. Astragalus in the Washington Nationals it's the 1st time the World Series has been in Washington the capital for since 933 so work out the sums if you like and for a world who will phone in it's Europe South America and play some of the playing in all the excitement talking Thank you very much welcome was he at 1 o'clock my friend noite street and Emma looking through tomorrow morning's newspaper sit for a move to the next story we've been discussing as you know tonight what to do if you've got concerns about people working in car washes or Neil Bush the idea of confronting or challenging the business owners or asking the workers if they need help well actually one of the guests who we had on talking about all this earlier they're called in touch with well they reckon so much better idea and say look it's charity it's called on scene it runs a modern slavery helpline which you can call and get advice from highly trained experts on their number or their number is 8001 to warm 700 with thoughts and 121700 s. Let's look at the Daily Telegraph together neuer the headline Johnson tells Corben to mom up on fight a general election law I read from the story Boris Johnson has told Jeremy Corbin D'Amato up and accept his offer of a general election as he hopes for a December 12th vote appeared to fear last night there was no sign of a breakthrough for the prime minister as the delayed making of the station extending the president line by Labor and Tory M.P.'s prepared to vote on his election offer on Monday amah. This is great fun Ok so basically Boris is sort of goading Corben up and he's putting his why he's put his proposal for a general election on December the 12th Now can we before we discuss this Stephen can I just say if I hear any more nonsense about weather and it being dark and cold in December and that not being a good reason for a general election I am going to scream and throw something at the microphone why because look it's December right people yes it's cold and it's horrible again it's cold it's horrible Now people go to work people go to the shops people go to their local post office people go to the local library people go around and see them 8 people do stuff in this ember they don't not go to the polls because it's December the 12th and it's cold and rainy so can we stop all that nonsense or whether. Darken renewed call. Yes but if you need to do something like go to the shops or go to work I want to have a really good I ring one of those number. Ok I mean you could just be. Your a bazillion and you I saw your. Fire. You. Know you things for you know. That's a different I mean I'm talking about on your pizza. Where you're like you know. How pizza you're not allowed. You to try and I'm just this rich man because I'm calling for a you know remain for a. Search I don't know how I get someone in yes I get someone in to do it for me you know I'm just talking about the average normal person. Said who still does things I'm just saying people do things. Like the way you do you know where an election would be in December but hold on yes it is very rare but Speaking of birthdays there's a reason why the clocks get back on Sunday morning it's so that we get an hour extra of Emma with Birthday Happy Birthday Oh yes happy birthday and so when someone is young but not to take away from your birth they've been talking about this story Ok but happy birthday I tell you I feel. It from top to bottom that's what Johnson said and the thing is they're going to vote that there's a group of M.P.'s that want to and then I'll let Greta come in is a group of M.P.'s that want to oppose this the general election on Monday and the e.u. Is sort of waiting and waiting and everyone's waiting it's the big waiting game who's going to you know who's going to decide about the extension but it's not just labor M.P.'s that are going to vote against it it's also conservative some of the rebel Conservative M.P.'s So it's just a mess we're in this deadlock. Which is deadlock and we will come to we'll talk more about this in a 2nd but which I think is be. Waiting for $26.00 Farge to get on the run. Hi How are you maybe not as much as Bob sorry for keeping you in man manner from a Go ahead will commit if I. Just think about your point about politicians and whether or not we believe the animal I have to say they are listening to your show to yourself Well I'd like to work every day feeling for a while whenever I hear an interview. Period where he has a never. Question If you don't want to know why because it's seen I was in this or near I've been to in this game 25 years all right it's seen as a d.m. But they did they they they get some type of balls whatever balls as you know each to their own and all that but they get some type of ball as a bike cleverly avoid the question on the scene is the noise if you get a politician that answers a question straight it kind of jerks Chibok those and you go well they don't have just some of the band I think I think they'll be training to avoid. Answering the question straight and I think you know it has only legs and I mean this is not. I think it's mostly lead to negative behavior in the way of the media because I stay all that they're all kind of openly hostile from the beginning because. To try and catch them out for trick them into that balance by a man they have. A lot on air and that. Listen I don't. Give a lot I think there's a lot of merit what you're saying and I don't blame you at all because I think because of how they interact you have no other choice because they don't question you need to catch them out in order to have something otherwise being you 5 minutes . Well you know being it you know it's worse and to want to get too geeky about this but you know when it's a lot worse actually it's a lot worse on television because television's all of our time and timings and if you call if you call radio there's off more time Ok but on television you might have 5 or 6 minutes on and also to be fair to radio you know NY Times more time but on breakfast shows they're often trying to get a certain amount to items in and a short period of time and so the presenter will know and the politician being interviewed will know that they've got 3 or 4 minutes so if they don't but they were on blast or if they will fall for a couple of minutes then you know the interviewer has the signed hostile because they're trying to get on the question 2 and 3 while this guy still was flying over question warm and that's why but I get it I think you're right actually there's a there's a job to be done on both. Yeah yeah I mean but remember I remember that there's the public the public they're all sort of full to the public can it's no wonder that people are cynical and fed up with poncing policy it is something I'll say something see in this that when c.n.n. Dare tell you something else you would be surprised to pyrite and I got to stage dive where I refused to do it quite often I refused it there sometimes a day but very rarely know any more it would surprise me in a number of politicians who say I'll speak to you Stephen. But I'll not I don't want to take calls or I don't where he calls from the audience or whatever I kind of feel like send to them Are you for real that your period and yourself are raw and you know lection time or man or woman of the people and you want to talk to me but you don't want to actually talk to the British public like will slot All aboard they often fear the public more than they do an interviewer but you know and the and that's because that filter is not there long may continue not to be there why don't I just ask you insist on it when you insists can you not insist sometimes that they take questions for probably. 20 years ago if you want them to say yes to interview and then they they try to put up some of these kind of conditions can I just that's something that I think also that the standard of our politicians is low I really do I'm thinking of you yeah I do I do and we talked about this last week and the week before about the fact that you know you were saying a lot of the pilot Well a lot of us don't understand the Northern Ireland situation and the complexity of the Customs Union or the cut and the of the free market all of these situ all of these. Factors because it will involve everybody for many holdups you've only started hearing about more than on because of Bracks it but all of these factors that are involved in projects which are really quite complex and I don't think lots of them actually have ever got their heads around it and therefore it's quite frightening to be questioned hard core for 7 minutes on the Today programme and so they know that if they bust I've seen Liz Truss and just for balance I've seen Diane Abbott and she said 3 times this morning on the Today programme we're ready for a general election that's all she was saying she couldn't really answer any questions until I mean I think the standard is a lot lower in terms of intellectual rigor and understanding ideas understanding. No they don't know what they do they know what they're doing a time time. I don't I don't agree I think they do get what they're able to do and what their masters and mistresses is actually. Before you go to like do you think there's going to be a general election on December 12th. I have to say I feel I have the catalyst in. For that but I'd like to say something else quickly just because it's my deepest point about being gay is earlier on when you discuss this program someone came on t.v. That's a different story ours. When. We need to give you a gold star for. Some a catalyst that always a 10 month old truth that they will be no more but I have to say because I believe and I think they say because they have always been like I kind of would but when I told you a little bit if you could understand running the country west over the world and you have you know the whole position paper and look at having the world back then as motivation said oh you know what to do that is going to do these really good things but we get some of these back and blood be accidental charges for that if they were actually genuinely telling the truth. But the whole baseball just always give you any straight. They going to. Yeah yeah you say that but I actually do. You know if there was a political party who was or which political party was it said they would put a penny on the income tax to help their chairs have a funny feeling as the Lib Dems in the last election yeah I think it my business and yeah but you know I think now I'd like to tell you what we suspect that you say they respect that but didn't get the many votes that they do better at the election no no but they were not even felt they were assassinated by were actors but they were tainted by what. Exactly and what they probably students and what didn't actually happen people don't forget and they will say no I didn't thank you very much and I bet when we had 50613693 if you want to call us tonight where we have it we know it's 599 Mike Brooks thanks 3 what is happening to me. Pete can I just finish the story that because we couldn't really finish the story about the government. Yet But wait but parity Boris is going to try and bring it back if the vote for general action every day next week he went out to yeah but he won't be allowed to because the speaker won't allow him to bring back a motion that's already been defeated so this is quite a it's a standoff it's a Mexican standoff between the e.u. Labor and the conservatives but it became complex it became even more complex when Jeremy Cooper Not if he saw him on Richard and Judy he came back to this morning yesterday and he was talking about a general election possibly be full December the 12 and I thought How's that going to what we're going to have one in November everyone is really confused I don't particularly want a general election in December you know the idea that the 1st day of Christmas My true love sent to me is a general election ballot paper no thank you very much but we've got a step all mate in Parliament at the moment and the only way I think you can move forward is to have a new parliament to resign. Although we find ourselves in a position to put in the latest plan on last year's winner we need action to know how few seats in the next day we're going to rolling to laze But hold on labor I'm not going to break labor don't know what they want labor have said no to May's deal no to bar issues deal no 2 no deal no 3 times to a general election what do they actually want a referendum No I don't think. So they should come out and be clear about that and the Lib Dems I know this is what we want them not being clear that's still not being clear and that's my beef with Diane Abbott on the Today programme she was just going there at a time where ready for a general election we've got everything and also Greta I don't think we can have a general election in November I think you need to actually say one way to be fair to labor they have said that if a new daily breaks it is completely ruled Lloyd then that's when they will agree to a general election they're clearly say that they say there is no doubt just him and they're clear that any Bracks at the lip were to be done to go to a referendum but clearly what do they mean what do they not know Dale this is another question is that the transitional period we've got the transition period you can say that the end of the transition period we won't crash out with no deal Stephen and that's the end of what I know I'm just going to cause I can't believe we're not leaving on the 31st of October I can't believe it we've been here so many times and we do and I've said this is ridiculous 31st of March what was the previous day like the one in June and I think it's not having ever I think a lot of members of the public certainly 17400000 people will feel that they have been made fools of just 17400000 people Traver your point for me but this was for this reason it is a vision it has got to surely it has got to be factually inaccurate that you cannot hold on to about 17400000 people from 3 years ago because it's a particular. Probably double I acknowledge it could have gone up it also could have gone dying but the notion that the 17400000 people are dead set up the number from 3 years ago we don't know how many minion it is probably more but I think don't sign you say 70 point for me yes I'm going to hang on to trade it could be 10 no mate of Jamaica mine may. Only fits into a number we have that. Are as everyone even in Fact remains factual he does not mean his actual. Factual that 70400000 people voted 3 years ago yes but we don't have 17400000 people currently still support Greg has no I mean I'm not so referendums were not how elections a referendum when they say is the number that we are dealing with and that number is there you can't ignore it and that's what I think some politicians want us to actually do is where. I'm looking up the fact that the 12th of December if that indeed were to be the taffrail action can you imagine the month of Christmas parties will be counselled from Friday the 13th I must be one of the by my party. For Christmas but I'm sure Mr Clappison to go out we should think this I think I think the issue though we've having enough general election which I do think they should do is that you've got no guarantee that it will move things along because you could. Watching it on come on no party with 2 minutes with 4 minutes left from pizza times only get this in grumpy Meg was terrible come to say I think the reason. Was certainly a terrible campaigner and tearful of our key decisions from the last election and because surveys during the campaign Mrs May told it's I don't want to be a bite maybe it was so prettily that one of her most trusted advisors had to become a full time minder. Orange County Seldon discloses Yeah but he's not actually yeah he says he's better. Yet he grew up in my mind from east London I was very surprised he was born in Stepney I kind of felt some of these was prickly tearful because I kept factoring in she's a woman as well when I do think I feel a bit uncomfortable about a lot of these objectives that were attached to her finally Yeah because Chrissie Yeah let's talk about female politicians she's prickly she's If I'm on 3 the. I remember. An author No you're not a lawyer to talk negatively about a politician because they're all what it's nothing to do with. It was a minor would be Ok noir woman on touchable not interested thanks again but I will hunt them clean you my holes when they will actually ridiculous I have been you know would be ridiculous I'm sorry you know who can I just speak yeah women a cool pushy and bossy right but man a cold ambitious and this is wrong and he's just saying she can't take Romney boy here we go again she began to a problem yeah yeah I think it's I think if you pick up our goofy stuff about women and female politicians and they kind of negative biographies this as well because I think this is you know this is quite a negative. You know so. Those type of words to describe what we mean a woman leave me feeling creds well. You know what they want to Everett calls me prickly watch out you know what Rita maybe some women are tearful maybe some women are certainly or terrible campaigners and they shouldn't be protected from being described as such just because they're women any more than men that's the only point I'm making Yeah I'm not sure I meant honestly a full they won't be described as such in a biography really can I mean I doubt that they will yes Emma. Thank you so much know I was just going to turn to the story and say the interesting thing about this story in fact we do and I would both trying to make the point that that language is very very gendered and that so often so often you know getting strong women are described as pushy or as hysterical or as what have where and where as a man would be described as you know there's a number and any any way you know how many. Times she told nobody it's a wide and went about language Ok I get is that a little injury to. The point about this story is simply that when it may introduced her health and social care tax dimension the so-called dimentia tax which basically sunk the $27000.00 election the interesting thing about this is she refused to listen to advice to heat the criticism and to empty cells and is making as a sort of make it's basically giving a warning to how quickly elections can go downhill and so you know be careful what you wish for calling a general election when you seem to be ahead in the polls we're going to elect General David what I'm saying to. You today thank you very much Emma thank you Trader have fun and I will have from. L.a. Thank you very much indeed for your company Goldberg brought Goldberg tomorrow night. Daytime get in on this and I'll talk to you in a couple weeks time thank you very much have a lovely Saturday night everyone here comes to thank you. Margaret the story of leaving home falling into the hands of traffickers walking across Europe to the promised land and the final day just legs to the way in a truck for the crossing to the u.k. The question where the u.s. Capitol for regular updates of game 3 of the baseball World Series Do you remember . This morning kicks off in an hour's time it's Europe and South America with Viva Vegas and the legendary. When you. Play nearly anyone this c.b.c. Radio. Across the b.b.c. This is awful night on Dawson advised I mean is this our police investigating the bodies found in a refrigerated lorry make a 4th arrest last to smash 9 past Southampton to equal the biggest win ever in the Premier League you can listen to this program by download. Podcasts. Of scribe to the program so you don't miss the next episode. This is b.b.c. 5. Live. Jazz Dawson good morning a 4th person has been arrested by police investigating the discovery of 39 bodies in a refrigerated lorry in Essex the 48 year old man from Northern Ireland was detained at Stansted airports several Vietnamese families have contacted the b.b.c. To say they fear their relatives are among the victims and the stains chairman of the human trafficking foundation this is a massive operation it took some operation and many people get through it but some of them like this tragic day have ended up dead and that may make everybody wake up to the fact that something needs to be examined but you never met the amount you can do because these people are going to get through a 2nd man has been charged over the killing of 2 teenagers at a house party Milton Keynes last Saturday. $22.00 will appear in court this morning to face 2 counts of murder and 2 of attempted murder a 21 year old man's also accused of the same offenses e.u. Leaders have agreed to grant a Bracks that extension but they won't settle on a deadline date until next week some officials have suggested they won't reach a decision until M.P.'s have voted on whether to hold an early general election shown in Murray's a Brussels based correspondence for Euro. It's all up in the air my feeling Robin spoke to people after the last meeting is that at 31st January will prevail particularly if there is an election obviously for sure but there you could have a flex tension so just because you have the deadline of 31st journey that doesn't mean you have to wait until the 21st January the governor of California has declared a state of emergency in 2 counties because of rapid least spreading wildfires are in 40000 people have been forced to leave their homes and many more delay for the Impaler parents are being warned children teenagers are being targeted on social media by dealers selling cheap class a drugs at least a dozen children under the age of 16 have died in the u.k. Since 2017 after taking ecstasy Sally Homans the children's commissioner for Wales I think that the vast majority of parents and adults in general would be hugely shocked at their Vale ability of really dangerous a stroll in class a drugs and their availability to see very young children I think we're all probably living in ignorance a study by the Trades Union Congress suggests the number of night shift workers over the age of 50 s risen to almost all 1000000 the t.c. Says the work patterns a link to higher rates of county evacuee fast killer disease diabetes and depression and prison trumps personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani's left an accidental voicemail message on the phone of reporter and a 3 minute message Mr Giuliani committed sorting about former business dealings and the need for money the 5 Live news Casey has the support now Jamie Vadi says they knew about the record and which chasing it in the 2nd half less this is he put 9 goals past him on Southampton to equal the biggest ever win in Premier League history they were hot chicks for the Perez and also.