It's on its. Very very long time I was in. And I did. Compostable it. Sounds. It's up all night is nearly 5 past 2 here on 5 Love Let's cross the pond but stay here at the same time in that crucial radio way we do and talk to us sports with James with Yes Hello Richard hello everybody lovely to be here for another North American sports show this evening on b.b.c. Radio 5 Live and tonight we're talking about bashing up a room Ok thanks of a thing in Philadelphia was all about rivalries Yes great sporting rivalries little versus nationality coming up this week Ali is one of the ones I did consider putting in here but I decided against and I'm going for a much bigger football rivalry with. Talk about the wonderful city of l.a. Ok well tonight that's all to come and hopefully talk about the w. N.b.a. As well more of that to come but well there's a big game going on at the moment as you're watching Richard if you take a quick look up low there will you're Ok Yeah Ok so we're at the top of the 3rd at the moment this is the a.t.l. So yes the American League Championship Series this is of course the Houston Astros who are playing the New York Yankees tonight the Astros are currently head 2 games to one in the series they are behind tonight so top of 3rd and the Yankees have got one but the Houston batting there are 2 on base and all of this is important because we need to talk much more about baseball. But. The man and. See the thing is it is turning rigid into a very good all term in Washington Ok Ok now we're going to talk in a bit about basketball in which there's already been a championship but for the 1st time now the Washington Nationals have a chance to win the big prize in baseball yet they've cemented their place in the World Series they swept the St Louis card. In the n.l. So yes. As I said they're going to face either the Yankees or the Houston Astros who are playing tonight so let's find out what's happened how the Nationals have suddenly become good because there was a point early the season they were not looking good is going to be said Brittany Girolami covers the Nationals for the athletic Brittany thanks for joining us how is Washington feeling in my mind because it looked pretty excited the other night yeah they're they're feeling pretty good they're feeling like they can be pretty much anybody and everybody I mean when you look at their whole season right is you mentioned they were not very good they were 12 games under 500 there were 1031 there just a 2nd team in the last 30 years to come back from that kind of deficit and go to the World Series so. They're behind in the wildcard game they were behind in a do or die game 5 in Los Angeles against the Dodgers who had 106 games the most in franchise history once they got past the Dodgers once that one that gave in l.a. And a very enemy territory I think they felt like they could beat anybody and they kind of took it all out on the St Louis Cardinals once 4 in a row very hard to do now they have a week off before they play as you said the winner but this use of Yankee series Yeah I've just watched Houston go 31 up the top the 3rd now because there's just been a massive home run bonus if you saw that one here I did see a yeah yeah that's a long long way there he goes by quite something that So let's let's talk a bit about the Nationals themselves that because they were the Nationals forever I mean it's only 2004 was the time that they've been the Nationals they were the Montreal Expos before that so how Washington really taken this team to their hearts . Yes And I think that's a recent thing and you know people forget that they had the senators back in the day and washed us well so this will be the 1st World Series game in Washington d.c. Since 1933 so you know a lot of people are really excited for this moment and I think what kind of soul the city the city kind of follow what this team is the fact that they're a team full of comebacks right we met you know how bad they were early on there was one game in September they were down 6 runs in the 9th inning against the b. York Mets they came back and scored and won that game and it was the biggest deficit baseball history and the one thing so I think. Because they've been able to come back because they never feel like they're down because they scratch and claw and they've always kind of been the underdogs the city is really related to them they really embrace them they're a sun team they dance in the dugout they do the baby shark the whole stadium Yeah I was going to say about right Ok you tell us what this is all about doing the baby show you showed. Her fever so in the end of May when they were really bad they picked up a player a little known Al fielder named Herard Opara. Now he's got a little daughter and one day she decided you know she kept begging him to use baby shark as his at bat song so he did and he caught fire he was hitting home runs you know these big hits for the team and you know the fans started getting into it players started getting into it they started you know the shirt clap and now it's become huge huge part of this team he's got a little baby shark that they've been kind of hanging out in the dugout with are also instituted these dance parties they have in the dugout after they had hauled. He's really been credited with kind of turning around the Spirit because they were so down and out and bang a he got there was like we need to have fun we should be having fun and you know the baby shark is really taken on a life of its own there are sharks on the team so or and every time they get a double you see them do the baby shark with just their hands you know not though the whole arms just a little tiny mini shark so the team is fully embrace it and the city has fully embraced the baby shark it's really cool to see he's fantastic I mean Richard you've got a small child have a 2 year old son who loves baby show Ok fine yeah he'd sort of chance such things in the car and then demands it bed time and I kind of think about when he's called that just like the top stories yeah down the hokey cokey you know both. Very similar things that Britney would tell us a bit about the starting pitching because that's really stood out as an it was so special this year yeah there. Terrific a couple things one they went out when they got the top free agent pitcher which was Patrick Corbin this when are they signed him $240000000.00 deal they felt like their starting rotation was going to be a strength and Stephen Strasburg kind of added nowhere has finally lived up to this billing he was this guy who you know was that it would be a prospect I mean the hype around him as a as a young player was pretty ridiculous mistrusts Percocet that you know the expectations on here were almost double and for years and years he fell short he was injured could never kind of be that guy well he's become this is a cease he's become a workhorse and you get him was Patrick Corbin and Max Scherzer who is one of the most terrifying better think of betters in the game and you have a starting rotation that's the best in baseball and Max Scherzer you know he's an older guy 35 you know he doesn't have the stuff that he used to but the band is he a competitor and he knows how to pitch it he smart and all of those guys that use in relief to get here to the postseason they know those are their horses on a ball Sanchez is their 4th starter and people kind of forget about how good he is because he doesn't have that overpowering stuff he's also a veteran a guy who came really close to leaving baseball but he took a doll hitter to the 8th inning in St Louis he's got this like butterfly change out that he throws at 60 miles an hour that's 80 he's got about 10 ditches it seems like so between the 4 of them they give you all these different looks and they've just been terrific in going 6 or 7 innings and it's really set the tone it every playoff game and it must be burning for them that they've got a bit of extra time now because having swept the St Louis Cardinals they can sit back watch you know the Houston Yankees series and they can relax a bit come yeah exactly you know they had today off they had yesterday they're going to have a workout tomorrow at the stadium. I think kind of like a touch of feel session just to make sure guys are you know still staying in the in the mindset here I would have actually probably work out Saturday I take Sunday off it so long and wherever they're going to go and it's funny because with this right out here that they had yesterday who said in New York are right now if this goes 7 they could play 4 days in a row well so the Nationals are city hall or next These guys might be a run ragged whichever team they play if it goes 7 games because of that right now yeah I mean it's going to be incredible to watch are they still practicing that they still training they still keep in the arms loosen all of the Yeah Yeah I think that's what tomorrow and Saturday are going to be all about just making sure that you know that they're resting up but they're still doing stuff you don't want to shut it down for a week you know you want to make sure you still you know keep keep doing baseball activities but I think more of a mindset wise to want to be around each other they all enjoy each other you know want to get to new to focus on that one goal which is to win the World Series while Brittney thank you so much for coming on and it's going to be a fascinating we'll say recently he watching not we think probably is going to be that he's fast Rose if this game's anything to go boy to want to but when you reckon you know it's likely Yeah I think they could I think they have a much better chance to beat the Yankees but I think Houston with that rotation against the Nationals will be fascinating yeah absolutely fascinating to watch Verlander versus Scherzer Gary Cole versus Stross for thank you versus Corbett I don't think you could ask for a Better World Series I think it'll probably end up being Houston especially if they hang out yeah well we'll find out who's going to be really interesting thanks so much for coming on that's pretty drolly is the Nationals for the after lesson now before we go and talk about the n.b.a. Richard the some big news coming out of. Denver tonight where the. Wrong co's are playing the chiefs and one of the massive stars of the n.f.l. Is the Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick my Holmes who I don't know if you follow it all but. He is the man Ok with this way the arm on this guy is absolutely incredible He has just gone off the pitch with support from colleagues on the side he is heavily limping I would suggest if he's out for any substantial amount of time that's going to make a big difference in Gresham to another Iowa civil society so what happens now is that they get the kind of relief quarterback comes on who is a guy called the map more but you know n.f.l. Teams a built around their quarterback So yeah I mean that the whole attack is built around the quarterback so for somebody to come in an x. Even close to the same level is going to be difficult and especially when you've got an office which is so dependent on a player who is so far ahead of almost everybody else in the league I'm leaving Yeah I mean and how does the league and you know he's absolutely incredible it will be really interesting to see what back injury is will keep you up to date on that as and when we get any news but it certainly doesn't look very good for Patrick Mahoney right I did promise it so shall we do a little bit of basketball let's go ahead. Because it is time for news of a championship to win and as I said it's in Washington it's the mystics have taken the w. N.b.a. Crown with Elena Delle a Don becoming the envy a delighted to have Rachel Galligan back here's our do you n.b.a. Expert as well Rachel you'll notice that I've learned had sailin Adela Don's name now which makes a change the last time. Yeah you're like a pro at it now that's incredible quantity was a good stock has not very got I will say How was the series and how much better with the mistakes than the Connecticut Sun You know this was such a good series between 2 I mean this was the number one versus the number 2 seeded team so truly the 2 best teams in the league really do can it out in the finals and the series went to 5 which in the w.p.a. Is what the finals you know the finals are best of 5 and I kind of felt like it would go to 5 because you have to really offensive powerhouses and you talk about Elaine Adele and on the the year she had she was really the. Driving force behind Washington and honestly she got hurt in Game 2 and she went out and Connecticut was able to win that game sheep she finished the series with 3 herniated discs in her back out she and she ended up coming back and playing Game 34 and 5 and leading her team to a championship so there was a lot of storylines there you know obviously between both teams but that was really the big one was the kind of the her elec Adela John and the ability for them to push forward and honestly it came down to the wire I mean both the get a final game was very evenly matched until about the 4th quarter when Washington just really tricolor stomped on their throat if you will but they just took control and had the crowd in the momentum behind him and they say they wanted in the final minutes it was really exciting to watch Yeah great series to watch as you say and then Adela Dawn having Basle through those injuries I mean that's a name I think that the whole w n b I can kind of crowd around and hold up as being an incredible school stuff people follow. Yeah she has become one of the biggest names not just in you know women's basketball or basketball but in sports you know her she's been a phenomenal for a long time now and anyone who's really followed women's basketball knows that but what she's been able to do now is no limit in and headed into the Olympics and 2020 and what she's done now continues to do not just on the 4 but off off the best backcourt and you know a lot of her off the off the floor heroics and things that she is involved in she's just a great advocate for sports in general a great person and really high character always putting the needs of others before her own and we're just very fortunate to kind of be in the time now where we get to witness her the one now that really and not let the unfortunate as you know she has battled some injuries you know from here to there throughout the course for a career but she's also persevered through them tremendously and she's extremely tough mentally and physically you know to be able to do it she's doing and I'm just so happy to see her win a championship how much water they can ask a son later to win next to them. You know there's are so close they're very different team you know when you look at Washington you've got a really star studded team you've got a big name like Alain Adela done well you know a superstar if you will when you look at the Connecticut Sun they've got you know some big time names that made some really big names from the south this year and Junko Jones and Courtney Williams knew we could go out on their roster and talk about it but this is a team that's been together for a lot of years and in my in my opinion you know this just the experience of being in the w.t.f. I don't. Even Know you so just a little bit short that goes a long way in a team's hunger and their ability to build off that for the future I mean we very well could be talking about them being champions a year from now there's a mean that that is highly likely in my opinion I'll be religious and say I mean what's you know let's talk a bit more generally if you don't mind me will use the State of the you and the i at the moment because. Let's be honest there's a massive disparities in there in pay between the men in the women in in the in national basketball in the n.b.a. If you like. How much do you think the sport is growing at the moment uneasy in any way keeping up with the Met. Well you know I think you're right I have to be completely honest but having the egg is only right around 2022 years of being. A sport you know so it does have a long way to go in terms of just mainstream media let alone mainstream media in the States you go to a lot of news outlets that don't have a w.b. a Tab you know if you go to their Web site so there we have a long way to go in terms of it being even recognized on a national level but we have started to see more recognition from e.s.p.n. Is spin to this year in particular we saw so many different. Publications like The athletic and s.b. Nation Bleacher Report a lot of big time news outlets that really started their own wing directed just for the w.p.s. So you have a lot of outlets a lot of news media everyone is taking notice that this is becoming a sport that's on the rise and it definitely is and you have a lot of n.b.a. Players that have begun to really really in truly in genuinely show a lot of interest in the game itself and have done a tremendous job promoting it but yeah it's going to take time and it definitely is going to continue to take time we've got some teams that are playing in some of the best spend years in the world and then we've got some teams the Unfortunately get removed from the news and have to play in college arenas and that's unfortunate but there was a bit of news today that came out that the New York Liberty who had been kind of displaced to a smaller kind of lower level venue is now been moved to where the Brooklyn Nets play and that's a huge win for the deputy editor a huge win for that franchise which was one of the original franchises so you see. The sense is that it is definitely growing that there is a demand for it it's definitely exciting but you know if we can keep this momentum going I would say the next you know hurry to 5 years it's going to be the growth is going to be outstanding I. I do believe Rachel is Richard here in the studio and how you doing in terms of overall crowds in the w n b a I guess we're starting to see crowds all of 30000 in women's football now in the u.k. And that's been unheard of up until a couple of years ago and indeed women's matches about what has indeed sold out when we said it was in about 90000 so I mean you still are seeing you seeing an exponential growth there in n.b.a. Crowds to. Yeah I mean I I would be lying if I said week the crowds were on that level that's absolutely incredible gives me chills when you guys are throwing out those numbers but you know I will say you know places like the l.a. Sparks you know they're bringing in you know it's 4 for 4 then you know where the Lakers play you know they're bringing in 8 to 10000 you know the Seattle Storm are getting tremendous crowds but you do have like the Washington Mystics who made a strategic move to move to kind of a smaller venue just tailored for them which features you know right around I think it's you know could be 78000 you know they're filling that in so the crowds right now are nowhere near obviously what you're talking about but they have grown they have grown tremendously and I think when you see a major point to strategically move these teams to areas where they can pull larger fan bases you know we're talking about. San Antonio that that organization folded and then they moved out to Las Vegas and they've only been in their 2nd year and that has been a fan base that has really rallied around the Las Vegas aces and now is one of the hottest teams in the league in terms of their market ability to stand base that they're drawing to so you're kind of in this phase with the league right now where franchises and owners are being trying to be really strategic and where can we be the most successful with the fan base I think we're going to grow getting ready to have some big news tomorrow surrounding the Atlanta Dream that very well could involve some of this conversation maybe a change of venue maybe some sort of rebranding but you know it's you see these moves and they're all very positive but you know it's talking about as many fans as we're talking of women's football we've got a ways to go with that I mean one of the interesting things about the one I was listening to something else on I think it was on Fox lot actually not long ago about the women's football is that we all now getting these big events if you like a thing is the England match and when played a sold out froyo they say not Germany. Yeah and I know Manchester City and a couple of other women's Premier League teams here were in Super League teams sold out on the specific weekend where everybody said this is the women's weekend you know they've all gone watch it generally when is when's an international Yeah but but it's not always the case that that replicated week in week out nothing else fair to say here so it's getting that regularity isn't it and for the players as well I mean quite a lot of them come over to Europe don't they now they they you know having finished their season they come over to Europe basically to to keep going and to get some extra money because they're not being paid a lot really. Yeah and this is a very pivotal time right now you know the the I mean we're talking about 100 just a $100000.00 contract is one of the top contracts you can get in that and then the w.b. I as a rookie you're looking at $30000.00 your 1st 3 years which is nothing I mean that's nothing compared to what is these multimillion dollar deals that we're seeing in the n.b.a. So it's not even comparable what the where we're in a we're in a very interesting time right now because now that the season is over we're entering c.b.s. Negotiations where the players association is going to be really sitting down with the league and figuring out you know the n.b.a. They get 50 percent you know if their of their revenue goes towards their salaries and that the n.b.a. As they're getting just under 22 percent so they're not asking for the same amount of money that the men are making obviously that is realistically we aren't we aren't We are very very long ways away from that they're just they're going to negotiate the percentages you know hoping that that can increase their salaries quite a bit and honestly either the new Devery n.b.a. Commissioner Her name is Kathy and over she has come in guns a blazing in terms of the moves she's made how how aggressive she is being in terms of just fighting for the growth of this league and I'm really excited to see what can happen in terms of the salaries and the type of revenue that the league is hopefully going to continue to generate and just build on but yeah you're right I mean most of them especially those who are in the finals they finished game 5 and within 48 hours were already in year of some of them I saw one of the players was competing today you know in her 1st game over in Russia so much story a majority of them are on their way to Europe is not already there competing in Euro league in a different league because that's where they make them and that's where they make their money is there the ownership over there overseas Yeah so just as how a 2nd job suddenly while they're playing in the day out and be as well seems crazy but I think probably it's only massive changes over the next few years right you'll keep up to date with the thing I'll be fantastic hopefully speech and I'm very sure that. I would like to thank you guys right much for having me on Always a pleasure Rachel Gallagher and he's our m.b.a. Expert here on the North American sports shows it's great because she knows everything you throw a question show you are in a really rich I want to keep you up to date on this home stuff so I have an injury to give you an idea of the you know this is the Currently I would argue the lino Messy of American foot Ok Ok so we're talking that level in tonight's game the Chiefs are actually winning $26.00 it is against the Denver Broncos in Denver but apparently I'm just having a look at social media and there are some very not very nice videos about them apparently putting his knee back in place oh hello so hopefully there is no ligament damage there but it looks like he's definitely out for the night it looks like he may be out for a bit longer and that is very bad news for Kansas and frankly not very good news for the n.f.l. As well because let's be honest I mean this is a guy who is incredibly marketable and you lose a big player like that a massive player like that and she goes elsewhere and the other thing is for the Kansas City Chiefs I mean as I said that whole team is built around this guy that's their season don't if he's out for a substantial amount of time that I mean how much longer one season we got to go so the Super Bowl is on February the 2nd Ok So that gives you an idea but they've got you know so they've got about 3 months or so I think left of the regular season then we go into the playoffs so there's a substantial amount of time left and you know if he's gone there we go the thing anywhere on the way after half past we have something about Los Angeles and a lovely song as picked out a lovely lovely song for us for lost for specific for us and about last month that was kind of about Southern California but I think it fits in this particular situation we're going to be talking about bashing up things in a Philadelphia stadium and we're going to talk about rivalries and that's all to comb after the new. Help us to come digital b.b.c. Sound smart guy. Is b.b.c. Radio 5 Live and Lisa McCormack has the headlines like this Richard Boris Johnson will spend the day trying to convince M.P.'s to back his Breck's it daily the prime minister insists he has enough support for the plan despite the d.p. Saying they won't back as they are the only party who aren't on board with the agreement labor the Lib Dems and the s.n.p. All oppose it President trams welcome Turkey's decision to suspend find it in northern Syria President there are ones agreed to a cease fire like Kurdish troops to withdraw and scientists say they can use high resolution satellite images to spot large groups of well stranded on shore then fully knows why Wells beach and previously it's taken several weeks to find groups of them time for the sport or his team stare at disdainful 0 consideration movies how are Liverpool supporters group of described the new 8 pm kickoff time for the club's Boxing Day game away at Leicester in the Premier League the changes made because of Amazon's new t.v. Deal which means they will show all 10 game schedule for the 26 and 27 of the December the spirit of Shankly group of wants in the all Thora has to move Boxing Day games back to 3 pm there's been a number of kickoff changes over the festive period full details can be found on the b.b.c. Sport website and app Meanwhile the full defender job will be available following injury for Sunday's trip to Manchester United and their executive vice chairman Ed Woodward says claims that non football people take major decisions are all Trafford are a myth and then insults speaking at the club's annual all staff meeting Woodward says decisions on players are not made by c.b.s. Management the 4 Bulgaria fans arrested for racist abuse after England's Euro 2020 qualify in severe have been banned for 2 years and have also been fined 443 pounds Tottenham boss Marat support should Tino has dismissed speculation he's looking to use the January transfer window to turn things around at the club the surprise run of 3 wins from 11 games in all competitions poteen. Says he's not ready to be written off just yet maybe it was similar last year respect to all the 1000000000. People that think different or that banded. Thing different or you move you have different opinion about what is going on when you know when. You have to sit on the grid the size Englands believe in a poll or has told the 5 live rugby union podcast that they are ready to create new memories in the national team's history at the Rugby Union World Cup he says to be considered as one of the best in the game you can't live in the past that's kind of how you build your legacy either by being successful or by being unsuccessful obviously we had 2015 there was the harping on about it but we're done with we left that baggage back then and he marries into the quarter finals of the European Open in Antwerp he defeated the 8th seed Pablo Cuevas of Europe why in straight sets Laura Kenny as one of 13 of European track cycling title off to Great Britain took gold in the women's team pursuit in the Netherlands the men's side won bronze Ronnie O'Sullivan is out of the English open snooped in Crawley losing to China's Mazie when he will now face Mark Selby in the quarterfinals Mark Allen and Ricky Walden are also through England have brought in the work to Captain g. Tom Patel as a spin bowling consultant for next month's t 20 series tour of New Zealand in the netball plays Jeev a mentor and Johansson a taking a 6 month break from international g.t. And British Basketball star Luol Deng has retired after 15 years in the n.b.a. He signed a one day contract with the Chicago Bulls and then ended his career and that's the latest from b.b.c. Sports. The 22. 2019. Digital. Digital. Please. Please. Please can be magical thinking 92 police will find life and find life sports extra This is b.b.c. Radio 5. The b.b.c. Says. It. May Richard Foster until 5 talking all things us sports with James Wickham Yes we are and let's start talking about this. Season if you do for us from my safety Ok I think you know Richard we play that jingle when it's not about a particular sport it's about last thing it's just a rant is if there's another random thing but you know like a thing about you know lots of different multiples I had a great indeed let me give you a few of those categories both McEnroe's England Australia Allie versus Fraser and scam folk United versus Grimsby Town Yes some of the greatest rivalries in sports that I would argue I think the apt. To suggest matches Liverpool that I don't see and I've been in art anyway so these are some of the greatest rivalries in the sport over here at least of people that United out we know about but of course there are many great rivalries in North American sport as well so what makes a great running for free. Dr David Tyler is a sports management professor at Western Carolina of university and he has been researching rivalries and has been looking at all makes for a great war Dr David Tyler how did you measure what makes a great rivalry. Well the thing we did with it is my co-author and co-author and I Joe cobs from Northern Kentucky University we asked fans. Civically what their arrival was and we said are you've got 100 rivalry points right so you got 100 revery points how do you allocate those to the one rival or multiple rivals of your favorite team and by doing now we're able to get a measure of how one team or one opponent compared to another. For fans of these different teams yet so so in other words what you're saying is that you asked people from both sides so that you got an idea of whether rivalries will really rival raise or just one sided hatred is that right that that is a great pick up James because you know a lot of times the you may hear you know media or whomever hype a game is a rivalry game right but it's not always that way it depends on who you're asking for some Yeah this is a big game but for others it may not be a depend on which side of that rivalry Iran absolutely and there are many such you know things over here and in a similar way I mean Europe both in fun and I am indeed Richard so who are Bolton's when it's hot it's lousy blood been Rovers the rovers to be allowed a care about yeah. And Burnley Yeah and Bernie's been a Bernie the Bernie blob and what he's probably a bigger rivalry than the one that's the thing you say I mean it just depends on who you talk to isn't doesn't as to as to what the rivalry is so given all that David you've been looking at what does make the biggest rivalries in North American sport and where if you come up to where you looked at. It so we we've looked at 6 major sports leagues so far the. Major League Baseball's best ball football soccer and then top level of college football so far we've got data from another 10000 fans we haven't gotten to yet but them we've looked at you know Indian Premier League and we're starting to expand Maher globally and we're hoping to learn more soon about you know an English Premier League. All those as well so you have a willed wide I want to say web that's under this and even with the knob of rivalries across the world I didn't get any kind of cross border rivalries as well so so far we've been sticking with just these leagues but actually what in the little bit of free research we've done on it we expect to see a little bit of that when we get to European football because of you know Champions League as I was talking with a. Real Madrid fan a couple years ago and asked him who is rivals were and he mentioned. Barcelona and I let it go but then you know 20 points to the number who was it was either you know Byron or Man United or somebody and it's just completely changed how we want to bow the research because now you've got these rivals that are going to come from other leagues as well yeah and I mentioned because you know in cricket England Australia which is the biggest rivalry of Ole in the USA and India Pakistan all ended well yes but you that's a kind of political rivalry is an Iraq of then a base south full thing rivalry in that how do you differentiate between those things is it is it possible to differentiate between just the animosity between cities say rather than the sporting rivalry. In. The sporting rivalry is never really about just the sport because it is always there's always something more there obviously with an India Pakistan you have a lot more and it's really silly and prominent but even with other rivalries you if there are reasons why you care about one team and not another you know if you're a I don't know a Preston North End supporter right well 1st of all the good name I don't press well done l. Pleasant but yeah you know you know a chair about a team like the number United doing well but what if you lose to a black hole you know that that's what you compare yourself to you know never There's a long history there so it's not as not just one last game is part of is much larger narrative. And on the flip side you see a lot better about beating a black hole than a Barnsley or somebody because you know that game means a lot yeah so we're talking about a rival you know that's what makes us rival It is this other groups. You know where there's a larger narrative and this other group poses some type of threat to you in your identity so what is the biggest rivalry in u.s. Sports that. From the way we're looking at it the most you know most focused one if you add up the robbery points comes out to in college football American football Arizona to Arizona State which may if you know much about North American sport would probably come as a surprise because this this is a robber it doesn't get much attention nationally. But what it is is those teams don't have other rivals so they give almost all their points to each other. Where's there's other rivalries even the prominent ones the Celtics Lakers Yankees Reds and these really super famous ones those fans still give points to other teams as well and so you don't have as focused a rivalry as you have with something like Arizona State absolutely fascinating and I was thinking there are you know many occasions in the u.k. Where a similar way you got 2 teams have to really close to each other Newcastle some of them were from me an example Yeah well you know it's really close rival and they don't really care about anybody else despite what say Middlesborough fans might say they might look you know they're even if you've done this is basically a mathematical analysis is there I mean how can you can you make math a substitute for passion do you think and therefore and therefore these are genuine rivalries genuine mathematical rivalries or are there other factors that might come into play. How are you defined gentleman or well I mean I mean if you say let's say for example you may have you may have spotted a rivalry between those the 2 obscure teams that you mentioned that the the ones in Arizona and Arizona Yes Right yeah absolutely but the b. Others which are which are not quite so well known but the others gloomy could be much better known because of because there is a sort of a definition of passion is that also a sort of an American of coverage is there to. Sure and so so the 100 points is just one measure that we do and that's you know one's easy to look at but we measure a lot of other things too such as. We have some scales and. Ideas about how likely are you to marry a fan of the other team or how would you feel if your boss were. You know Millwall fan or whatever whatever it is you want to you want to say about it. And then things like. How your job which is joy in another suffering like how would you feel if the coach for the your rival team. Had tax evasion charges brought against them or something of these different there's several different scales that we used to measure that and that's that helps give a little better idea of what you're talking about which is that if you have those feelings toward that opponent an agent or an earlier day video I haven't snow the moment you're in. That a recess right now that's a research Kotoko vs you knew that they did to lay the super classic or the No as I was at the color column match last night. But it was it was not one of the rivalry matches No I'm just you know I'm here for a conference and was fortunate enough to be able to gauge in some of the good soccer down here excellent Well look David thank you so much for coming on that's David Tyler who's a sports management professor at Western Carolina University the thing is called no rivalry as in I know somebody k.-n. O.-w. I say Ok no rivalry dot com It's well worth a lot is fascinating just to say it's one of these you know Arizona and Arizona states a really good example of just you know that they're very obviously very close to each other and it's that kind of passionate hatred that only sports fans can do and the fandom miles and miles and miles away from anywhere else exactly just you know it's a little hope that isn't right now before we go any. Further Claire Freeman has joined us newsreader extraordinary Hello there also big ice hockey fan presents an ice hockey podcast called n.h.l. Fans from afar with somebody I don't remember what his name was Kemp Walker used this program No I don't anyway. So. What's your team what's your ice hockey take my team is Toronto Maple Leafs So that's why you keep talking to Joel and I remember this about Maple Leafs fan so it was the Maple Leafs big rivals. Well Toronto one of the original 6 you know the 1st 6 I think sheltering them are right down there is a good fellow readings so we're going to. I'm going to just defy how good my team is before I say anything else about the next oh how good they used to be currently Toronto Maple Leafs are like kind of the Manchester United of the n.h.l. But without all the cups and they are the team with the longest droughts since the Stanley Cup but because we're original 6 then the historic rivalry you scared of quite deep so used to be Devonshire Canadians who were just down the road not so much these days but everybody hates the Boston Bruins pretty much any anyone who doesn't support Boston Bruins at some point has been denied for by the Boston Bruins Well there we go Well let's find out a bit more about hockey because I think we need to talk about Philly by the way would you like. The hockey jingle one hockey jingle to I'm going to get number 20 zilch or the one. That he was. Thank You are in civil rights now so if you've ever been to a sporting occasion and you got particularly annoyed at what you've seen the Philadelphia Flyers have come up with a fine plan to help you relieve that tension. Now this is the team that came up with gritty last year gritty the old looking mascot looks like looks a little on the monster Ok Ok a bait. It's a slightly odd thing I'm just going to wait to reach it actually oh Ok. Gives you an idea so anyway myself. Who often presents this program with maybes on his travels we suppose Amy Johnson who's the lead correspondent for the a chill report that's part of rocky sports media and she has been looking into the re drew Well you know it can't get more fun than Grady last year apparently a cab. There's a large renovation that's gone on over the summer at the Wells Fargo Center that they've been unveiling teacher after feature after feature and a preseason and they're really parenting targeting increasing the interactivity of the fan experience and trying to target a different demographic of perhaps some younger folks who just want to come out and kind of watch a game but also socialize as well so this rage room is apparently the newest thing that's just been announced you know Philly fans are kind of known for throwing things when they're not happy with how again is going whether it's snowballs at Santa Claus on a baseball field or objects you know giveaways on to the on the ice surface at the Wells Fargo Center so apparently this is a way for fans to come in and kind of release some of that pent up aggression I guess safely. Without wrecking the rest of the arena and give us an idea of what he's up there allowed to come in and drank some of the kit I've seen looks quite expensive how chilly what then you know it's kind of a unique little gathering of items you get outfitted in a full safety suit with protective helmet and glasses and so forth and then you're put into this room that apparently has a viewing window so your friends and family can watch use mash the living daylights out of things and there's everything for a t.v. Screens to well. Glassware 2 plates 2 musical instruments like I saw a I don't know off fiddler a violin or something you know there are computer monitors and there was a mirror Grady smashed the daylights out of a mirror and I'm thinking Ok I guess 7 years bad luck doesn't work for Grady I don't know or know well I guess they don't he's already so for that I would guess he goes Oh I think that yeah I mean if you don't know what gritty is by the way he's the mascot for the Philadelphia Flyers which they released last year and he's just the most amazing looking thing I would recommend Googling gritty adequately I will this sounds actually quite creative nothing actually most buildings in offices could probably do with one of these thing we could we could definitely do with one . I me have the Phillies fans going to look to be angry about right now could understand why they could do this rage to release Well you know it's you know on any given day you're it's kind of unpredictable with Philly fans right now no I mean that the Flyers we like to say that they're undefeated so far in a season they've actually only played one game in Prague against the Blackhawks but they didn't win so they're undefeated going into their home opener and I saw nothing to be angry about yet but that can always turn on a dime in Philadelphia. And so. The reaction I've seen so far on Twitter is a bit has a tense like a lot of Flyers fans kind of thinking is this is this a good idea to give. Fans access to this kind of weaponry and encouraging the destruction aspect but I guess we'll see how it's going to go as opposed the idea is better that they create all that destruction in a safe space in the venue itself I suppose that is the that is the thought process apparently when they teamed up with the architectural firm who has done all of the renovations for the arena for this year a multimillion dollar on a run of Asians they really wanted them to think outside the. There's a new gritty area where you can see where Grady was hiding all these years in the Wells Fargo Center and you can pay money to have orange powder blasted on your face or your hair died on this ground I mean. They're taken it to the full extent this does sound like a lot of fun but if I can be serious for just about a show and yes you might you know come on maybe you did mention that there was some concern serious or not I don't know you from some fans saying is this the best idea is there any kind of feeling that the sport itself is associated with aggression and fighting and maybe it's not the kind of thing to be encouraging as far as associating it with the sport I'm not sure because I think I think it's more in terms of Philly fans have this kind of reputation for being aggressive and angry all the time to begin with so I think they're playing up on that a bit my serious reaction yes is. Don't know that we want to be encouraging smashing property and so forth and it sounds like it's all in good fun but you add to that however many beers a fan wants to to win imbibe during the game and so forth that that point can you just turn the switch off on the aggressiveness Yeah I've got a couple of very important questions I think to put you to process like questions how do you get into this room. From what I understand one of the new features for the Wells Fargo Center this year they've taken out almost half of the suite level and they've turned it into one gigantic standing room only upscale kind of old Philadelphia looking lounge and restaurant area where. You pay it's the lowest they claim the lowest price point in the n.h.l. You pay $25.00 to access this area it gets you admission to this area which is basically a standing room only area because you're milling around heading to the private bars and there's lounges and fireplaces and all that kind of stuff looking out over the ice and so there is a Hassid way to this rage room by accessing this lounge so the price point for this area starts at $25.00 and I'm what I'm guessing is that then you can add on features like hey I want to reserve time in the range room on top of that to flood the. Next important process question what do they give you to to belt the living daylights out of you it's not a feather duster I'm assuming you've been given a property by full ruse and yeah I'm. A hockey stick as is one of the is one of the I guess I don't know that they want to use the word weapons but one of the one of the objects you're you're given sis mash things was a hockey stick gritty walked in the video that I saw gritty walked into the room with a tire iron so I'm hoping that's not actually an option but I was just wondering if she might be Ok I'm a final question the most important question and take some help in there with you specifically a large ferry Masco. That's a great question that would be you know that's one I would that I would have to pose to the Flyers p.r. Folks to see if that's an option on the menu I mean I'm sure. It cost a pretty penny but I have before and I'm greedy can be bought I would yeah right things I suspect gritty combo as well I d A's pretty and if you watch the video how was the Philadelphia Flyers right dream you'll see it's good fun just people Lamping stuff ridiculous thinking or what right Chalis what they need to do lets go from right to a beautiful place on the other side of the world from here seems. There was no n.f.l. Franchise in Los Angeles for 2 decades both the Rams who went to St Louis and the Raiders who went open to an open Stakes last 9095 but as Albert Hammond Junius sang See it never rains in Southern California it pours they left at the same time but maybe maybe Richard it doesn't because the Sunday Times appear to be back the Rams come back the charges now have moved in as well but they're all that many people in the stadium sometimes an average because he is a columnist for the l.a. Times has written about this and about how l.a. Is adapted back to the n.f.l. And is the Irish is the problem that maybe it's not a case of l.a. Needing to adapt to the n.f.l. But the n.f.l. Needs to adapt to l.a. I think so you know when you're not in a city for 21 years and we've all grown up at least that's what I wrote about I grew up in Los Angeles that didn't have pro football so we kind of shows other teams where there was a team in Miami or Pittsburgh or New Orleans or whatever I mean obviously you know of a team so we would pick another team and so when you do that for 21 years. You you don't all of a sudden become a fan of a team that showed up to your door last year or 2 years ago I mean that takes time to build up a fantasy generational thing and the fact of the matter is they've missed an entire generation of fans my generation so it's not that there's no one in. These stadiums they're they're quite full for most Sundays but their whole with the opposing teams for. Their Pittsburgh Steelers fans or the San Francisco 49 are staying there Cowboys fans or whatever you know because those are the teams that they've chosen to root for over the past 21 years in Los Angeles and also this is a melting pot there's people from all over the country here and also if you know pick one game that you're going to go travel to to go see your team play you're going to pick was Angeles I mean it sounds like a tough question given how big a city it is but is there enough n.f.l. Support in l.a. To support 2 franchise's I think so I think the issue is that the 2 teams that they picked were not the most popular teams and so I do think you have a chance with their history in Los Angeles the Chargers are a little bit tougher because we always do you then the San Diego's team they had a 56 year history in San Diego so I think unless they. Ended they would always be viewed as the San Diego Chargers and so that one is going to be a little bit harder I think the Los Angeles Rams at some point will be a part of this community a part of the city I think the fact that they went a little last season helped but the Chargers can be a tougher road for them yeah and they're both moving in together now you have young satellites Yes the so funny stadia when not opens I mean he's not going to help do you think having a pet helm for both from Joyce's I think some way because you know these past few seasons they've had these temporary then use where the Rams played at the Coliseum which is a college football stadium on campus of u.s.c. And the Chargers have played in a soccer stadium a $27000.00 seat soccer stadium so yeah I think when they finally get their permanent home that will help where it's going to help for the Chargers I think is that it's a more affordable ticket they're giving season tickets where every game is $50.00 for the cheapest tickets to give you an example on a Sunday did they play Pittsburgh it was taken over by. It's parts dealers the 1st ticket was $250.00 so you're not going to get that ticket if you're a casual Chargers fan you're going to get that ticket if you're hardcore It's brick Fan Yeah absolutely thank you so much Irish Mike cause I use a columnist for the l.a. Times wrote all about do go read his article it's really good all about his growing up in l.a. And that is it for the North American sports show for this week I suspect next week we may will be talking about Patrick because that looks like a really bad injury but also talk about the World Series for just a very sore knee certainly Thanks so much today James James Wickham there with all things that u.s. Sports will be doing Syria we're going to Canada and we'll be doing another of the classic breads he cast before 4 o'clock the new. Knowledge playing for anyone and this b.b.c. Radio 5 Live feeds 3 Falcon 5 Live I'm Richard Foster this is a full night's main news Boris Johnson is confident he can get his break. Deal the go ahead in Parliament sports the New 8 pm kickoff time for Liverpool's Premier League match at Leicester has been described as disdainful this is b.b.c. 5 live with the b.b.c. News on 5 Live his Clare Freeman Boris Johnson insists he's confident about putting his brakes it deal before a Commons vote tomorrow despite fierce opposition the d.p. Are refusing to back the agreement and city labor the Lib Dems an s.n.p. Don't support it either sickest Alma is Labour's bricks it spokesman the concentration on Saturday is is the deal good enough to be voted through all absolutely not and therefore we need to vote against it if it goes down we must take a 2nd decision that which is to ensure that the better not the legislation is complied with but the former foreign office minister Alistair but who lost the conservative whip for voting against the government says he will back the deal the country has to move forward and I voted for the prime minister promise to May's deal. I'm going to vote for this one because you don't get into the next stage which clearly the e.u. Want and the u.k. Want unless we get over the line something that once again 28 states have agreed after the British parliament again to say no I think would raise some serious questions about what we're up to Turkey's agreed to suspend military action in northern Syria following talks with the us the ceasefire is to allow Kurdish forces to retreat president trumps welcome the news this is an amazing outcome this is that outcome regardless of how the press would like to damp it down this was something that they've been trying to get for 10 years you would a large millions and millions of lives they couldn't get it without a little rough love as I call that a full stay of protests against the prison sentences handed to council and separatists politicians has ended in move on.