G.m.t. Hello I'm Jamie Roberts and this is the b.b.c. World Service in America the working day is closing down in Asia Monday is just a memory for most of the continent is well into Tuesday will gather of a 2 time zones together and business masses but German engineering John seaman says it will not turn its back on its deal to help build a new Australian coal mine must despite climate change protests what's it take to be an adult in Japan we'll find out what coming of age means how a film about a clash of cultures in an American factory is nominated for an Oscar we talked to the directors capitalism without without a harness on it is like just pure energy a ruthless amoral energy and it's like capitalism has led to great things but it's also led to death and impoverishment of other people to find out the story behind an American factory here on business not just coming out just after news. Hello I'm Nick Kelley with a.b.c. News the u.s. Treasury Department says it will no longer label China a currency manipulator The announcement comes 2 days before the country's is due to sign a preliminary agreement designed to ease trade tensions Peter pose reports from Washington the u.s. Officially labeled China a currency manipulator last summer sending stock markets down the Treasury Department said it was response to China devaluing its currency leaving it at its weakest level against the dollar in over 11 years President Trump said it was designed to steal American business and factories but since then the u.s. Treasury secretary Steven minutiae says China has made enforceable commitments to refrain from currency devaluation to going to competitive advantage of b.b.c. Investigation has confirmed that thousands of Muslims from Kazakhstan a missing after being detained over the border in China one woman told the b.b.c. Back service she spent 15 months in a detention camp where she was given injections and electric shocks the Chinese government says all students of what Beijing calls reeducation camps have graduated and found work the leaders of 5 countries from the Africans to hell region have thanked France for its military support and call it for it continue. That statement came at a summit hosted by the President Emanuel McCraw and the French baronies to discuss the upsurge in clashes with jihadist forces more than 4000 French combat troops are in the region and more have been promised lemming Konqueror reports reached America really no t. Sending a further 222 troops today and in the b. To get more international support for the military campaign the leaders are now dissenting up of the way to framework for fighting the group is in the region that framework or the coalition for this a.o. Will initially glued French in the 5 African states with an open door for any willing partner to join in the future 21 Saudi Arabian cadets on military training courses in the us are being sent home after child pornography or jihadist content was found on their computers the material turned up during the investigation of the fatal shooting of 3 American servicemen by Saudi Air Force pilots as a Florida naval base in December the u.s. Attorney General William Barr said the shooter Mohammed Alsheim Ronnie had acted alone Mr Barr explained why Saudi Arabia had withdrawn the men from the course the kingdom of Saudi Arabia determined that this material demonstrated conduct unbecoming an officer in the Royal Saudi Air Force and in the Royal Navy and the 21 cadets have been disenrolled from their training curriculum in the u.s. Military and will be returning to Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia has said that it will consider filing criminal charges against the $21.00 cadets Well news from the b.b.c. . The United States's game warned the British government against allowing the Chinese company far way to participate in the 5 g. Telecommunication networks u.s. Officials told British ministers it would be madness to use Weiwei technology because of the risk it poses to national security the trumpet ministration is banned far away from involvement in 5 g. Because it fears the Chinese government could put pressure on the company to spy on the United States more than 20000 people have been evacuated from their homes south of the Philippines capital Manila as the country's 2nd most active volcano continues to cause havoc Howard Johnson reports the overall to know is continuing to spew ash with Philippine scientists warning further eruptions are likely in the coming days or not the director of the Philippine Institute of Volcanology says steam is rising from last through vents on the northern flank of the volcano there were numerous earthquakes overnight in the Batangas area where to 0 as located indicating continuing movement of magma Under the Volcano more than 20000 people living close to to all have now evacuated the area Russian and Turkish mediators have been working together to move Libya's warring factions towards a truce aimed at ending a 9 month siege of the capital Tripoli the country's un backed prime minister Pfizer Surat and his rival the military strongman general after were both summoned to Moscow on Monday to agree on a cease fire deal the mediators say the prime minister is now ready to sign but General Haftar as are asked for more time to consider the terms analysts say the talks of underline the growing influence in Libya of Russia and Turkey and the Spanish football club Barcelona sat their coach Ernest over there day after a series of recent unconvincing displays under his leadership has been replaced with key case it's in the former coach of the Spanish club rail but while there to help the club to 2 successive titles b.b.c. News. Well or welcome to business matters I'm Jamie Robertson the German engineering giant Siemens has refused to pull out of a deal to help develop a huge Australian coal mine in the face of protests from climate activists but with investment in the industry falling by the year does Cole really have a future on the continent and when do you become an adult in Japan it used to be 20 Nava government says and a couple of years ago have to make the grade on your 18th birthday or look at what difference it will make I'm joined as of a by 2 guests from either side of the world by Peter receives economist at the University of Maryland in Washington Peter good to have your own program again good evening hi and by you become a commie in Tokyo she's head of Tokyo sent a very sweet deal in a zation for Economic Cooperation and Development. You make a nice to have you on the program thank you for having me good morning. The German engineering John Siemens has said that despite protests by climate activists it is going ahead of a deal to help develop a huge coal mine in Australia in order times or to stand ready would be unlikely to make the news but with the bush fires raging in the south and the ferocity blamed by many on Climate Change coal projects are seen as part of the problem these are the scenes in Germany today. Siemens has admitted we should have been wise about this project which does suggest it will be wary of similar investments in the future indeed lost his investment report from its National Energy Agency showed investment in coal fired power stations worldwide was falling by 3 quarters of a 3 year is where does Australia the world's 2nd largest coal exporter fit into all of this while the country's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has insisted the government would meet commitments to reduce carbon emissions but it's my intention and this is the point to mate and bait that tag and we're I will to continue. To reduce our emissions and use the technology in Mike investments and continue to evolve a policy that would sure that we can reduce our emissions with the in the policy framework that I took to the last election which was with have putting a tax on people's living with increasing people's electricity prices without writing off you know $70000000000.00 industries on which regional stridency depend on for their livelihood and I believe we can achieve all of that. Talk and so it's all straight is future inextricably bound up with coal kind of pivot away into something different I'm joined now by phone Tesco who's a research director at Australian Institute for Sustainable Futures he's talking to us from Sydney spend what's interesting there about what Scott Morrison to say was saying about bringing down competitions but of course in many ways the real problem for Australia is it exports this coal and once you start taking into account the amount of carbon emissions come from a covert his but away from Australia's shores and yet which Australia is responsible for ultimately. It's going to be very very hard to turn that economy around going to take away its code exports aren't. Well I mean a stranger has a serious potential for solar and wind power generation and also a potential to produce exploited renewable fuels so we could actually organize a transition away from fossil fuels but then the next decade or 2 that's very very easily set there I mean how on earth do you do that. Well we have we have all the technology if you look into the energy system the coal the electricity generation in Australia is based mainly on coal but those coal power plants are more than 40 years old and we need to replace them anyway in terms of export we have more and more countries to actually turn away from coal because Seoul and wind power generation is significantly cheaper if you compare new builds all that big projects those new Bill Cohen gets so there is a trend towards renewables anyway and we in Australia would actually need to full of that trend and prepare our transition in order to shift away from fossil fuel energy exporter to a renewable energy exporter which is possible technically and economically Yes Is it possible socially because when you look at the kind of disruption which it has I mean you look at saying what happened to the coal industry here in the u.k. You look at what happens because industry in America and the kind of agonies which some of these areas goes through even if you say Ok you're not going to work in a coal mine you're going to work in a making renewables making wind farms or whatever it happens to be you can't just do that overnight it's something that requires an enormous amount of planning and I just wonder and an enormous amount of sort of social engineering to get that done how do you go about that in east Australia ready prepared to politically do something like that. Currently we have politically definitely not prepared I mean basically we we did a very detailed survey about how other countries organize transition and we came up with basically 4 lessons learnt 1st we need to build a social compact as you just mentioned and we don't have that right now in the country Secondly we need to have a plan for all the for the early closes of power plants but also the mines that requires a long term policy again we do not happen long term energy policy in Australia right now certainly we can't just move from let's say coal workers from coal industry to a solar industry meeting today Deb Isaac 5 the regional economy so it's not just energy which could replace jobs it could also be tourism or agriculture or other industries and 4th we actually need to establish a fund for no authority to organize a just transition those full lessons learned are required in order to organize a successor transition we're talking about a decade where we have to organize and implement that we're not talking about pulling out the coal industry tomorrow we say we have to prepare now in order to organize this transition and we asked I thought and allies examples in South Africa and in Germany for example and there are some good exits and we can still do you get any sense is popular support for this and I say that particularly because of the local level for instance this Mayan which Siemens is going to continue to help build this invested in and terms of the rail head which goes to the mine it's a Donnie mining project it has the support of the Clinton people it has the support of the local people generally a lot of these. Industries are deeply embedded in the local communities he said and he supports the sort of thing to happen to the kind of things that you're suggesting to happen. Well I mean if there is this if it stands a realistic chance that the new oil and other industry will come to that region and create jobs of course there is support right now those regional communities sometimes that absolutely no other choice so I think we do we need to organize that and need to give them about choices and then that case I would say yes there is a support for for those projects and this is exactly what we what we followed that we need to organize a local industry for renewables within the region where the energy industry right now is active and again I come back to the 1st point we need long term policy in order to organize that we don't have that. Sense timeline I'm going to turn to peace and what do you think about argument do you get do you think these things are possible do you think governments can do this sort of thing historically when governments have tried to transition workers from declining industries into new industries it hasn't worked at a very very well and there's been a lot of difficulties for at least 2 generations West Virginia is in a much better situation than say Australia to make a transition because it's surrounded by reason of a reasonably prosperous region and is having great difficulty I find it rather fanciful that given that it is an island continent is going to export renewables and I'm somewhat skeptical of the notion that renewables are always as cheap as natural gas. And eluding to Germany Germany hardly has a stellar track record when it comes to fossil fuel use and championing the transition especially given their automobile industry these are very difficult things to do they are going to happen but they're probably not going to happen at the pace that people who would want to plan our economy and basically use the climate crisis to change the way we are organized overall would like they're going to have to leave it up to the markets to do it well the markets are doing it in America where McG. We're starting to really move into electric cars for example but they're not as cheap as gas cars. Ok. You make of what you say I mean Japan big consumer of coal to be so not explore on a big customer. Yes it is actually a very severe problem in Japan as well in terms of what the government and companies who didn't terms of energy sources as you probably know Japan has had a lot of political issues when it comes to energy policies especially in light of the nuclear accident we had. The most of the nuclear power plants in Japan are not operating and therefore coal Israel listicle e. The most reliable source of energy so given that reality it is really difficult for Japan to really stay out of the call energy space and therefore it is still in reality one of the most important energy sources and quite frankly in terms of the we new energy options and the cost are not coming down as quickly as we will like to see so that's the other problem in terms of the limited option ality that Japan has and you don't feel as popular support all of us as a popular feeling about I mean if you're not going to get the kind of protests which you have in Germany. Yeah I think that that's that's true I think that you know in terms of the general feeling among people it is more muted in terms of you know what you may see on the streets for example in Japan but then again I think there's a lot of international pressure as well on the country so I'm not sure exactly how much longer depend can really stick to this policy in terms of using coal power plants. That's just go back to spend. Spend. It seems that people actually greasing you're ideas of a sudden out of skepticism that is such is simply not going to work that and I even I got that in the tone of your voice as you were talking about it saying this is what we should be doing the political will just isn't that even with the file. Well I mean it's it's quite interesting when you hear it's repeatedly said that. Not ask as fossil fuels if you look at the global market for new power plants in the last 5 to 6 years between 50 and 70 percent of all new build power plants were renewables menes all of that will take and we didn't simply because they are significantly cheaper you build Secondly they are quicker to be able to especially good for developing countries where you basically need to follow the rising energy and thirdly you have no dependence on fuel cost on $1.00 sort of fluctuations from international fuel costs so Renewables have all those advantages and still it is sad that renewables are not economic That's actually not sure if you go back to Australia 30 percent of all its trading households actually have a solar photovoltaic system already South Australia is it's not really interconnect But the other routes we have to study percent when the trust is there so it's actually moving in this direction parody of Trek and spent Peter didn't say how on earth an island like goes to export energy I mean you know it's you can't exactly lay a cable across the South China Sea and. We have to we have to l.n.g. Tremolo we have the possibility to actually generate renewable energy with hydrogen and plus carbon This is right now and I agree currently more expensive yes but there is technology possibilities to actually bring down the prices and again I'm not saying that we switch tomorrow but we have to start developing those options in all its. Have an alternative in the next decade and that takes that long and therefore if we just see the situation currently on the market will not reflect what we need to do in 10 years' time and that's why we say let's have a plan now let's have an agreement on a social compact and then work from from that all words until 2032 actually organize a transition also socially responsible spent asco search director start Institute study Sustainable Futures thank you very much indeed for coming on business matters let's take a brief pause and go to the news headlines written account in the United States says it will drop its designation of China as a currency manipulator in a positive gesture ahead of this week's signing of a deal to hold the trade war reports from northwest China say the authorities are holding thousands of Muslims from neighboring Kazakhstan in detention camps and 5 West African leaders at a meeting with President macro have expressed their support for continued French military involvement in the fight against jihadist insurgency. Make thanks so much and today is coming of age day in Japan the 2nd Monday of a month now what it means to be a grown up because Japanese government has low at the age of adult hood from 20 down to 18 will come of into effect in 2 years' time it means all 18 year olds going to be able to wed without parents will consent or going to be able to apply for credit cards and make loans without parental approval and if they want they can obtain a possible out of for 10 years but they cannot yet until they are 28 well I won't be able to even turn to turn to 2 they won't be able to drink alcohol smoke gamble on adopt children ceremonies today to celebrate the coming of age of the people aged 21 held across the country. Sons fetish the days and events in Osaka was a bit more adventurous group reached the top of the 300 meter I will know how to cross skyscraper under the motto Let's step to adulthood and a young man summed up the excitement of coming of age one it's all I've never climbed this many stay is it boosted my self-confidence I want to be an adult who is trusted and respected by others I do my stuff. Well we're going to have to go to Japan what does it mean to come of age in Japan. Well you know it's actually quite nice to see a lot of young people yesterday is a bank called in Japan their number of ceremonies being held in these people are wearing kimono traditional Costin's celebrating their you know come to the age you know occasion so that's very very kind of nice and you know celebrity sort of you know out of my fear but I think what's interesting is is the fact that. The this is is is a country where we have less and less young people so every year when we have the coming to the Asian ceremony in January we have less people reach an age of 20 this the country where the population of over 120000000 people today declining basically you know 100000000 in the next you know 30 years so in that process you know as you can imagine you see more you know older citizens less children young list young people to be very cynical when it comes to a lot of the voting age in the u.k. Has been attempted and of course this is a lowering of the virgin age in Japan of course people say it's in order to get votes. Yeah I mean does seem as you probably know this notion of a silver democracy where you know the voting power is pretty much with senior citizens and you know quite frankly not only we don't have a lot of young people but these young people do not vote as much as older students do so trying to change about balance of power there has been a lot of discussion as to you know lowering the voting age my did to that balance and quite frankly I think it's a little too early for Japan to see how effective the change of voting rights 8. Has been good it's been only a couple years. I'm just trying to say whether we have some of that coming of age sermon in vs what your high school prom or you know we really don't have a coming of age sir sir Moni used to be viewed the college graduation certainly signified adulthood for those who went to college course a coincided roughly with 21 which was the age of majority before 1970 or so. The Vietnam war changed everything because we were drafting lots of 18 year olds to go to Vietnam an unpopular war and 18 was also the drafting age in World War 2 but we had a very young Army in Vietnam as compared to previous wars for many many reasons and young people were going apoplexy that and demonstrating about against the war and saying why should we be sent there we can't even vote to determine what our policy is and rather than get rid of the draft they gave us the vote but in a practical sense and that we could then sign contracts and everything came down all of us and you could sign a contract and what have you the reality is a lot of a lot of things really didn't change because of the economics of it you know you really can't do a lot before you're 22 or 23 because of the time it takes to get educated and to get a job and so forth we've always permitted teenagers in America to get married which is driving some people crazy I mean you get married at 14 in America and in many states simply because the laws go back to a different era it was very common for educated men to marry women who were 18 or 19 before 955 goes young women didn't go to college but rather they were. Among the upper classes that they would go to some sort of finishing school or become a debutante and then get married and it was very common for you for girls to marry as teenagers to men in their twenty's so those laws are still on the books. And some people are using those laws to get married which of course in this day and age given the requirements of adult life many of us find probably all of us if we think about it very disturbing I think we're saying that the but the Japanese doing it in a far more controlled and certainly more sensible way everything they do is so better controlled an organized they're the ultimate social engineers and the 18 year olds I understand because they can't actually get drunk and about to get drunk until the twenty's aren't technically speaking but you know if you go to you know party in a college kids they'd be did drunk that's the reality and that may not be that different from countries I'm not sure but it is technically speaking yes and it's right when he would indicate that a by alcohol you know it's very rather late in the United States as interview last time I wonder how much of my children one at 21 I want to move to Philippines now because tall volcanoes we've been hearing about news has been spewing lava in a way that will start as a war could proceed a hazardous eruption within hours or days it started in the early hours of Monday when a weak flow of lava began seeping out of the volcano located about 70 kilometers south of capital Manila its mission a huge plume of ash triggered mass evacuations Let's go to Howard Johnson in how it can you give us a get us up to date with what's happening there. Yeah I'm standing at the hotel Tarasova looking to volcano in tech I tie this is a popular tourist spot as people come here to have a look at the volcano at the best of times for the moment it's spewing ash you can see the moment billowing this black and white smoke up into the sky and you may be able to him scraping next to me that's the stall for here at this hotel cleaning off all the ash from this terrorists I spoke to the ocean off the hotel he said that in the last 2 days they have had complete cancellations of all $29.00 rooms for both. Days leading to a loss of around $2500.00 So business is a clearly being affected here too and if I look across this view that I can see here in France Americans see lots of pineapple Groves completely decimated by this thick ash that means lots of people's vegetation also affected by this cloud that's still billowing into the air in front of me. A tourism impact I mean it doesn't go as far as Manila in Minnesota's 70 kilometers. That's right and we've seen that the international airport has been affected by this ash cloud yesterday there was a reopening of the airports around midday a lot of flights have been affected I looked at the departures and arrivals today and there are still some cancellations some delays there all flights coming in to and that's obviously going to affect the tourism industry here that's worth around 13 percent of the g.d.p. And January is typically a very good time to visit the Philippines and get the best numbers of people coming here because the weather is quite calm at this time of year it follows the rainy season which last December typically and so tourism board will be disappointed by this volcano which is the fact that so many tourists are arriving in this country Ok thank you very much indeed that's Howard Johnson in Milan Manila we're going to be back in just a few moments most of you to marry soon Washington you may come on economy also in Tokyo and we're going to be talking to the director of the American factory that has been nomination for Best Documentary Feature at the Oscars and it's going to tell us a great deal about globalization about capitalism and about automation staples. This is the b.b.c. World Service where we are exploring the music of Greenland Greenland the biggest island in the world the vast interior isn't uninhabitable it's this frozen north is a realm of whales polar bears on walrus things so why does music matter here I respect my culture and I am proud to be a Greenlander. Resurrecting traditional. To addressing the issues facing the population it is political it's always politically everybody knows about being drunk and domestic violence there are so many suicides every year it's hard but it has to be talked about knees it is all important so the communities on this I have to say the music is kind of a clue during the Cape Mollison as I explore music on the world's largest island Greenland why news it matter it's Sunday at 14 g.m.t. . Listening to business matters at major and Iraq it's now coming up in the next the Oscar nominated film an American factory tells the story of an old g.m. Plant taken over and run by the Chinese we talked to the 2 directors and ask them what it says about globalization automation capitalism and imagine a full public transport is free a pipe dream of a crash public finances for a couple way to boost an economy softer the news. B.b.c. News with Mick Kelly the u.s. Treasury says it will no longer label China a currency manipulator just days before the United States and China are due to sign a preliminary trade agreement the Treasury says China has made enforceable commitments over the past few months to refrain from currency devaluation to gain a competitive advantage a b.b.c. Investigation has confirmed that thousands of Muslims from Kazakhstan a missing after being detained over the border in China one woman told the spec service of b.b.c. News that she spent 15 months in a detention camp where she was given injections and electric shocks the leaders of 5 countries from the Africa region have thanked France for its military support and called for call for it to continue the statement came at a summit in France hosted by the President Emanuel McCraw to discuss the upsurge in clashes with jihadist forces reports from Moscow say that the Libyan military strongman General Khalifa Haftar as left the Russian capital without signing a cease fire agreement with the un backed Libya government The move comes a day after intense diplomacy during which Russian and with German. With Russian and Turkish intermediaries 21 Saudi Arabian cadets some military training in the u.s. Are being sent home after investigation revealed they had accessed child pornography or she has material on their computers investigation was launched after a Saudi Air Force pilot killed 3 American servicemen at a Florida all Florida naval base in December the tall volcano in the Philippines is continuing to spew ash with scientists warning that further eruptions a likely in the coming days there were numerous earth quakes in the area overnight . Spanish football club boss alone have sat coach on nest of l. That day after a series of recent unconvincing displays under his leadership he's been replaced with key case sits in the former coach of the Spanish club the t s b b c news. From back to business about his image I mean Robertson also with peace and mercy columnist at University of Maryland in Washington and you become a commie in Turkey so it took your center of the head of the Turkish center of the o.e.c.d. Now American factory is a documentary that's been nominated for Best Documentary Feature all Scots gone a lot of the state because it's the 1st film to be produced by Barack and Michelle Obama's Higher Ground Productions is a film about a culture clash as a former g.m. Plant in Dayton Ohio is taken over by a Chinese company with many of her former g.m. Employees really employed at a vastly reduced wages and then confronted with a very different work ethic it's about globalization it's about capitalism threat of automation the rights of workers and of communities through many issues of course we have discussed and business models. Where you sit there used to be a General Motors plant and now there are over 100000 employees working here. The clinical trial the self-proclaimed unsafe working conditions and. Had to be here 2 years away from their family no actually. Made their house they made it my home. In America is changing times the work of people working hard what changes America was deciding they want to be right or whom to take advantage of. Never give up on America to me that will be America. Trailer to America. In fact I talked to the film 2 directors. Right hurt and Stephen Baldwin and I asked them very simply What's the film about 1st Steve American factory is about the rebirth of a dead huge plant a factory in Dayton Ohio where we live a factory that was once a General Motors plant that helped build the middle class of our town of Dayton you know generations worked there they had good union jobs good blue collar jobs that paid a decent wage where you could afford a home a modest home and when that factory closed in 2008 it was like a neutron bomb going off it was devastating to our town but then a Chinese company came in and prosecuted for it to play turned it into a glass making company well it was years later and so there was a long period of real struggle some jobs did come back and the glass plant was a big one the glass America. But let's not forget that that middle class life that could happen because like I grew up as a working class kid. You know and we had a middle class secure life and I know what that's like but when you're making $121314.00 an hour you can't have a middle class secure life you can't know you're going to be able to pay all your bills and not only that the town that we live in Dayton Ohio when all those jobs with globalization and all the factories leaving including the General Motors factory the schools in our town are all failing where our grandkids go the housing stock has fallen apart. Think about like public swimming pools they've all closed things like music and art programs in the schools when the tectonic plates shifted and the jobs went overseas for cheaper labor they left our cities especially in the Midwest in really kind of bad shape and food I have to say yes brought us jobs there steady there not seasonal the plants not going to close but is there still a shot at that kind of economically middle class secure life. I don't think so this is all about the effect of globalization isn't it yes whether you're an American worker in the Midwest or whether you're a Chinese worker who's worked for years so far from home watching your kids grow up on cellphones I mean we don't make a broad statement we're looking at the people in our plant. But this is what we sat and it was really important to us Jamie to look at not just the middle Americans but also for the Chinese people who've come over to Ohio it's easy for us as middle Americans to look at what's happening in China with like a lot of anxiety and we tried with the film to not do that we wanted to humanize the story of different you know quote unquote characters who came to Ohio from China because their lives are much better than their parents' lives you know it is important to note that like a 1000000000 people have been lifted out of poverty in China over the last generation and it's coming really huge costs to the environment to workplace safety all kinds of issues isn't this what an economist would describe as kind of leveling out across the globe this is what globalization does as people come up in terms of wealth in China people come down to roughly the same level in the developed world and so in the end what we're going to have is everybody more of a sort of in the same situation it is interesting that. It was actually cheaper to produce that glass and to pay the higher wages that we do get in the us compared to China but overall the wages in the us are going down for industrial workers the wages in China are rising so there is a kind of levelling out as you said but I would argue that it's not just the leveling out leveling out of working folks lives around the world that might be a long term eventuality but also pushing down it's a pushing down of working people that's going on if you look at the rise of the number of billionaires in the last 1015 years it's off the charts meanwhile working people are under more pressure around the world having to work longer hours the 12 hour days that people work in China is that meant to be the model for the u.k. For the United States for across the world this is interesting because I'm reading about him I haven't seen the film yet but reading about the film I got very much a sense of a kind of 19th century flavor in many ways about particular about the suppression of the unions and the idea that it was very much as you say the rich against the pool the blue collar workers against the factory owners and I'm sort of reminded of the Homestead Strike the Pullman strike coaxes a home in the u.k. Bridge or a crusade in the 1930 s. All those sort of things I guess of images coming through do you see also was replaying one teach centers a bit of a big. You know of course we thought about it we've studied labor history the era of the Robber Barons you know the era of. The Rockefeller's in the Ford said all those Carnegie's at least in the u.s. Where there was no regard for worker safety there was no standard about childhood labor workers had to organize in a big way and fight for the 40 hour week in the end of child labor and the beginning of Social Security that was working people organizing and going on strike and having sit downs and that some people were killed because of that and honestly Jamie to us this was our biggest surprise the power of the Union avoidance industry in the us the power the money the influence that it's had on the decline of unions and on the decline of worker safety and wage standards we didn't know anything about that until we saw it happen in that factory isn't it going to get easier to avoid unions when you have a gig or corner an economy which takes on part time workers and also when you have a threat of automation and you can simply say to somebody here is being a bit difficult you can say well actually we're going to be replaced by a machine in a few years down or even if you don't said he's going to feel it or. Everything you just cited is a factor as is the ongoing threat of like we'll move your jobs to a different country you know even jobs are being exported from China now to Vietnam where labor is even cheaper this is all ways to sort of keep people from having a decent life it's time to for working people to start organizing again and the end of our film is really a visual call or cry or wish for solidarity around the world it's purely visual you see workers leaving the factory in the u.s. Going to their lives and you see blue collar workers leaving the factory in China going to their lives and. Or cuts back and forth as what we're trying to say is you guys have more in common than your differences. I've always imagined Americans are by very nature deep in the soul capitalists or you're still capitalists up to making this film. Americans deep in their soul capital is what a lovely question capitalism without without a harness on it is like just pure energy ruthless amoral energy and it's like capitalism has led to great things but it's also led to death and impoverishment of other people it's a balance the gifts of of rewarding people's ambition which a capitalist might argue is necessary for the kind of achievements in society that we've seen those are great things but if you just had unfettered capitalism then people are exploited dramatically and lives are ruined dramatically and we've seen that in past centuries. As the 2 directors of American factory. Stephen poking around let me start with you you make such have resonance in Japanese Japanese sort of industry Japanese culture. You know it's interesting because listen to this discussion it just kind of made me think about how Japan was perceived by the u.s. Economy by the the society in the eighty's when the total good of the world for any of the world and it seemed as if at the time the Japanese economy is taking over the u.s. Economy u.s. U.s. Industries in particular the auto industry they were under quite a bit of pressure because of the competitive environment with Japanese companies so you know there was a lot of Japan bashing at a time in the in the eighty's eventually that Japan bashing became more of a Japan passing as Japan became a little bit I guess less competitive less visible in the u.s. Economy versus other powers such as China. Is wondering if there are a lot of similarities or a PAP's even lessons to be learned from that happens lesson in the u.s. An eighty's in terms of how the u.s. Economy should deal with the Chinese presence in the today's u.s. Business environment I think one of the questions that I think we will have to think about here is you know what is the company's corporation's long term a sponsible these whether they are Japanese companies or Chinese companies or American companies when it comes to dealing with the employees skill sets. Welfare I think that's a very critical question especially in light of the fact that the economy is really moving very quickly to digitise knowledge based economy from you know much more traditional manufacturing base economies you make a little bit so let's take that question because I think it's a really interesting one and handed over to patients what is the responsibility of a company do that is it just about the traditional sort of mantra of it's being quiet at it either. Again businesses most of all want to stay in business and to stay in business they do have to pay their shots and stockholders some profits. And businesses are compelled by globalization which these folks want to bash and listening but also by technology. The electric car for example which the left loves and these folks are part of the left is going to take about one 5th 3rd of the number of hours to assemble as an gasoline car the other 2 thirds of the workers are redundant General Motors can't just continue paying them salaries to do nothing or they won't be able to sell their cars because someone else in another place will build a new factory that doesn't have those legacy workers to be able to do it. Businesses already are spending a great deal of money in America training workers training up workers taking people who don't have a lot of skill and Skilling them up simply because workers are in short supply but a company can't give you what it doesn't have and companies no longer need lots of people that they can pay very well to make products that they can sell why not why not well because I was just thinking about what they said about the old lives of those old g.m. Workers they were good lawyers they were middle class lives they had overdone my father sold a good life insurance from door to door Ok And he was one of those guys who once a week would collect $2.00 from the housewife you know and put it towards the burial policy and so forth those jobs are gone because it was too labor intensive it's just easier to sell life insurance and cheaper on the web if you tried to do those things you know you try to make cars the old fashion way the s.u.v. The cost $35000.00 will then cost $70000.00 no one will buy it they'll be lots of vehicles piled up in the back yard of the factory and it'll go out of business right so you have to actually we come back very much to the subject. We were talking about the beginning which is about what's happening in Australia and if we're going to have this kind of change around of slavery Australian economy and we're going to have everybody making wind farms and solar panels and sort of digging coal out of the ground how are you going to be able to do that I'm a job that's why you don't want to accelerate the process any more rapidly than the technology that we're developing can accommodate it it is absolutely Christa think that you can get. Out of the coal business in 10 years and reemploy employ those miners and plants that make hydrogen from water at export it out of l.g.a. And terminals which is exactly what that gentleman suggested you know many believe that if you believe that I'm going to introduce you to the Mad Hatter tomorrow morning and he will be running the b.b.c. I will be the Prince of Wales. Which should be a lot more trouble than it's worth I can assure Absolutely I have no desire to be the Prince of Wales right now but. Let me go what do you think now I think of this interesting observation I do think that the whole idea of long term sponsibility of corporation is being questioned and quite frankly at this point in the United States not only the question that responsible to corporations but the government you know let's talk about the skilling up skilling people you know what's the role of education I understand that it is one of the most probably critical missing links in terms of Skilling people so I understand there are a lot of people who have been obscured who are risking old but at the same time they're quite a few people who actually may not be even in a position to be Reese killed because of a lack of basic education but you think the government should be doing as well should be promoting guy because you know I mean as Peter was say you know companies have a responsibility to stay in business and if we're going to stay business and stock holders and also they need to keep wages down. Now I do think there is a definitely certain role that needs to be played by the government frankly when it comes to education especially primary level education or you know basic basic education I do think a responsible these extremely important critical by the government and it's a combination of corporations doing their their responsibility in terms of training you know potential employees but quite frankly to get to the level where employees can be retrained so that they can be competent in the does this little world of technology rich environment they need to have basic skills and they need to learn all that basic all these basic skills at school and that some responsibility of the government Ok. Let's move on to the subject of free public transport is this a possibility a collapse of public finances under the strain possibly if you were to introduce it or a boost to be economy about a sudden easy mobility of all those people just at the cost of to the taxpayer if all public transport is free would you get your car and use it instead or is the car just too versatile to park in the garage for a social Twining now has this report on what price would be we pay for a free ride $1.00 I did to get people using public transport more is to make it free for everybody so how would that work and how would you pay for it would that be increased taxes would it actually work now you're going to hear from experts in transport planning cities adventure down they sort of run experiments to see if it would work and the whole country is due to make all their public transport freight right let's start with an expert view from Milan and Simone I'll tell you Patrick he's a research fellow at the group of think tank and incidentally the center of Milan where he was being closed to all cars for the last few days due to the pollution levels free public transport easily one option to try to the car when Isaac transport. Nation sector it is quite a controversial option. In the very useful to try to get people out of their cars but you might also want to consider that there was that are really just there guys may not use these as the incentive to jump on the bus instead so if you look at these from the carbon ideation perspective a good option but it might have to be done in parallel with other policies such as banning this your creation of polluting cars in city centers Simona TEGA Petra speaking from Milan while one free transport scheme often cited is in Tallinn Estonia 75 percent voted for it in a referendum Take a listen to the promotional video explaining how it works. To be entitled to freely use public transport or city residents have to purchase a 2 year old green card which must be validated upon entry to a public transport vehicle visitors and people from outside talent can buy the same card and load it with the amount of money needed to use public transport as a result the use of public transport increased by 6 percent between 2012 and 2030 Rock our use decreased by 5 percent in the center so where else what about our whole country could that be possible while starting in a couple of months it's just what Luxembourg is going to do and it's part of a big infrastructure investment project has the Minister for the ability and Public Works Francois Bausch beside the 620000 inhabitants that you have. You have every day 200000 commuters and most of the drops I would say 75 percent is concentrated in and around the capital so in this hunt for the country and in the last 3040 years we tried to really resolve all our problems mainly favorite thing in the real . Mobility and so we've the dynamic that we had in the last 20 years today it's not livable anymore we have a major problem especially in the peak hours and so what you've decided to do with any is is to make it free why was that the answer that you came up with the answer is the strategic paper and decision that we took to invest really the huge amount of money in the extension of the railroad to classical rail in that box and different other public transport and the free public transport is for me only a part in the strategy the other 1st country in the world to do all the public transport for free and for everybody no better if you are a resident of ducks That's after the 1st of March you can use any train and the bus and the tram in Luxembourg and it's for free but that can only function if by side also you invest all these amounts of money in the extension of the quality of the public transport because only doing all the public transport for free result having a good quality and a good of that makes no sense how are you going to pay for this the public transport and having another mobility is very important for our economy so we finance it directly by taxes over the national budget but we really have return on invest because when we would not do this at the end the congestion problem that we have in the peak hours will be worse than the worst of it yet the economy will not work anymore when you look at some of the other cities around the world who have tried something similar I'm thinking of talent in a stony and they have found that people have used public transport but actually the use of cars hasn't gone down quite so much so in other words it may well be people who are world will King and now use public transport does that concern you that that might happen in Luxemburg that's the reason why I fink the free public transport as a standalone will measure that. Changes nothing really substantial in the behavior of the population you must really change the offered you must change the quality of your public transport and then the public different public transport can be one measure well perhaps of the strategy in France where Bausch from Luxembourg so should all countries follow his lead Why can this particular free transport model work. Is an expert on Urban Research at the Brussels free university I think 1st and foremost it's a very political decision to channel either existing or additional funds to the public transport network so that this network can still be of good quality or maybe its quality has to be improved and then the price can be reduced to 0 Here's exactly pays for it because if you are challenging the public transport at least it is in some right instances or a tax that those who use it pay for the same way we all pay for roads and passengers do not pay a significant amount of the cost of running and definitely not investing in public transport so they do contribute to the budget but the operational budget as we call it of public transport networks but this contribution I would say is not very significant there are exceptional cities like London but basically what we're talking about is building on already an existing principle that the public subsidies absolutely essential is fundamental for the local network to function to work and since in many cases this is the remaining 20 or 30 percent of the budget that is covered by the passengers in a lot of a disability to decide to experiment with their abolition basically there is a political decision made to cover for this remaining 2030 percent we make up for this difference for the public budget the idea of paying asking passengers to pay in the form of fares for the public transport is basically asking them to pay for the 2nd time for the same service in cities that I had a chance to look at the way that phone relation makes a difference reducing the price to 0 increases the mobile. If you have people who we could call underprivileged So people who are unemployed people who are young or elderly for these people I think it does make a difference to an environmental term starts a little bit more controversial so I would not say reducing the price to 0 encourages drivers to not drive and start using public transport things too early to tell if this policy really has such an impact you know in the long term seeing what's happening with our climate I think symbolically this might be a policy that we want to see in the world. Look at the possibilities of free public transport you make what is it is it possible as it be done at all in Japan now I think it's a it's a very interesting discussion that we're having here in terms of what we should do to deal with the age inside in Japan free public transport model is one of the options that the government is looking into very seriously and it has not been implemented as yet but in the in the in the discussion in terms of how to plan cities for all their citizens in a compact city know some for example that has a very strong element of free public transport model in it so again it is one of the things that could potentially happen in Japan especially because the fact that the that we are dealing with the age in society and we need to plan cities urban city you know environments where there is a better services I'm sure I'll do it I must get Peter into the conversation just before we leave and it was I think that actually the idea has some merit because we're overpaying for public transportation we never you have a product that has a multiple revenue source there's a tendency for all the contributors to pay too much and so it becomes overpriced and we don't really have time to get into the economics of it or the idea that we're paying for it twice does have resonance I wish we could get you both for joining us just as much as a good buy. This is the b.b.c. World Service with the story of the New Zealand pensioners with an unusual hope when Katie 1st suggested her idea for a new club it was dated its date saw in the woods in the tourist town who wrote some of the most senior citizens get together once a week to chant laugh and decorate coffins coffin Club today at 133023 g.m.t. . And it's $250.00 g.m.t. More or less at lines of claim of the fires in Australia have killed more than a 1000000000 animals but some experts own convinced to hope it finds out how these figures would choke elated but help make you rich they are Stay with us the news room is next on the b.b.c. World Service the world's radio station. 2 hours g.m.t. Welcome to the newsroom from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Jonathan savage the u.s. Takes China off its currency manipulator blacklist. So as the closing bell rings on a jew.