Thought our reader is once again Sally gross and we begin with what did they release I give you 3 quotations to choose from but which one was what they actually said if at all Ken Chang the much quoted on this program Dorothy Parker famously made a comment on being told of the death of the u.s. President Calvin Coolidge did she say one good career move. Or 2 it's not an event it's a news item or 3 how can they tell. I think there really is the most personally coming for 3 Yeah you're right sometimes rendered as how did they know silent cow Coolidge was famous for not saying anything or indeed not doing anything Moe might have been Louis people often attribute remarks to Mark Twain when there is absolutely no evidence that he actually said them of these 3 which do you think he actually said it could be all 3 or it could be none 1st 2 on the report of my death has been grossly exaggerated 2nd one if I can't smoke in heaven then I simply won't go. And 3rd one ally travels around the world Well truth is putting on her boots. Who I think all 3 are all right John Mark Twain quotes I'm afraid not here have another try and that he said we're going to number one you are correct to do that the report of my death has been grossly exaggerated he really did say that you said it Jane Austen was a terrible writer Yes he did and is a very rude thing for Mark Twain. But he didn't say the one about if I can't smoke in heaven then I simply won't go around alive I was around the world while truth is putting on a boot which is always being trotted out these days it was popularized by the Reverend c. H. Spurgeon in the 19th century now Luke Jennings the poet laureate said John Bircher was once asked on a t.v. Program whether he had any regrets what did he reply was it one thing I've never driven a steam locomotive or 2 I've never read anything by Sylvia Plath or 3 I wish I'd had more sex. I think 3 you are correct to think that yes I was at a more sex this is a t.v. Programme or the time with Bettman. Absolutely true and anyone what did the t.v. And film mogul Lew Grade actually say about his film raise the Titanic which dropped to the tune of $20000000.00 Was it one never make a film using a model ship which is bigger than any tank in the world order or to it would have been cheaper to lower the Atlantic. For 3 I didn't raise it high enough. On a class comment to base I would give a number to yeah I like to think it was too well it is generally supposed that that is what he said that I was once present when he said no he didn't say it would have been c. With a lower than to all he said was the rather less good I didn't raise it. But he did say the thing about never make a film using a model ship which is bigger than any tank in the world do grade so to round 2 and what are they talking about these people Ken there is an American magician called Penn Jillette what was he talking about when he said it has the feeling of a sport but you don't have to do pushups. That Penn from Penn and Teller. Is feeling of us but you don't push us I like that idea. Give me any clues I have and what to think now I slightly hope in the last round of the answer is sex. You have to do a lot. Don't think that will work and. I keep introducing it was a former. Professional Poker Player and he was talking about poker we're in our wound . Is this why you gave it up yeah but I can recognize quotes from Michelle that's not the 1st thing they ask at the table. But I suppose what he meant was it doesn't involve the physical activity as sports sometimes you a player for like 12 hour sessions and you are better if you're more physically fit but holding the cards I mean is not you know usually I have just enough strength to hold up the cards. Now Helen what was the novelist Henry James talking about when he described them as large loose baggy monsters. Was he talking about women No I mean I just think if it's in in 1900 of us I sort of just assumed that they probably had some pretty salty views about women but I think I'm going to say Scottish people I'm going to go through various types of bigotry but you James might have to see who. Did it and. No I wouldn't He was a novelist and publishers who were getting warmer editors. Reduced What do you what do you write spice. Novels Yes he was talking about 19th century novelists in particular Tolstoy Fairpoint it wasn't you know I mean he was bigoted against Tolstoy but that's fine and he also called the war in peace a fluid putting. I would probably put Dickens in there with the sort of big and George Eliot oh say no more now what was the Chicago Times talking about when it called something the silly flat dish watery eye trances of the man who has to be pointed out to intelligent observers as the president of the United States. Lost these are the words of this this man who had to be appointed as the president the United States. Think of a presence the United States. I mean his weighty remark that we could be here some time ago that when John Quincy Adams and I want my life slowly through George w. Bush well try going halfway but too it was said about Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address in the 1863 which is now considered one of the greatest speeches of all time but it got a bad press and any one what is being talked about here I may say this quotation will become prominently displayed somewhere soon this is only a foretaste of what is to come and only the shadow of what is going to be displayed somewhere. In means not the start of the speech the end this isn't the beginning of the end but the end of the beginning and no it's not the sort of ecoterrorism that could potentially even. Portend and this is going to be all about Grace from 2021. Well this was said by a man called tiering. Right and he was a scientist at the University of Manchester in 1989 and they were working on a mechanical brain as they called it which turned into what we now call computers and if he's going to be on the new 50 pound note that is correct from 2021 this quotation which he did actually say moves reported in The Times article so there were Alan Turing now thank you if you've written to quote dot unquote at the b.b.c. Dot com u.k. To praise or to chastise us several correspondents came down on us for trotting out in the last series the allegation that President Kennedy mistakenly chose the words if bin ein Berliner in his famous 1963 speech the use of the word I'm a legend they transform the statement I am a citizen of Berlin in 2 donuts or sponge cake I mean Berlin a being the name given to that delicacy in those parts now one correspondent wrote an American president saying if bin Berliner would have sounded like he was claiming to be literally from Berlin which was obviously not whereas what he said was consistent with his saying I also consider myself a citizen of Berlin i.e. I stand in solidarity with Berlin Well I was interested to learn that this camel was being debunked by the early 1990 s. So I vow never to repeat it again or I am a donut now we turn to the subject of this and I have invited my guests to come up with proverbs that they may not find exactly helpful in steering their way through life's difficulties what have you got for us let's start with Luke one I particularly dislike is the best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Any surgeon. Or indeed serial killer will tell you that that's not the case. On the subject of serial killers Antony Hinks once wrote that serial killers do have a heart but it's usually someone else's. And for in comprehensible. There is the Russian proverb quoted by Nikita Krushchev if you start throwing hedgehogs under me I shall throw 2 porcupines under you I think that's the basis of the Cold War. All right Helen I realize that basically all animal based proverbs don't really make a great deal of sense and when that gets used a lot is mad as a box of frogs and I've never really thought frogs is a particular kind of mad I mean I think of all the things you could open a box of that you'd be horrified to discover what animals inside frogs be pretty low down a lift I think something like a stoat or a weasel would be quite high up my list of things I want to see in a box but only make sense of that one and then the other one which is finally make sense to me now I've looked up is the world is my only sister which always seemed a very odd one but I believe comes from Shakespeare from the Mary Wives of Windsor where Falstaff doesn't offer money to pay stands as $1.00 that has seen the world as my office I'll have to open it with the Saudi century so it's not you know I thought Who wants to set a kind of conglomeration of jelly or Snot to be the world but actually the reference is to the idea you have to open it with a sawed you have to go out combated a 1000000 take what you want so that and the problem now finally makes sense I'm glad the Oyster card makes less sense and. Yes it has implied that you can kind of just sort of swish your way through the barriers which I think they frown on Yes All right Ken Now you're something of an expert on. Demolished I love stand up on proverbs. Especially animal proverbial love ones are useless facts about animals like you can lead a horse to water but you can't make a drink it's useless if you've been in any drinking society in any uni you would know you can make anyone drink anything. Otherwise you can't teach an old dog new tricks that's just and ages I'm a lawsuit waiting to happen. I have this 6 minute long stand up the phrase to kill 2 birds with one star it's like who's gone and throw stones at birds if you're a guy around killing birds with stones you have issues if your go around killing birds was so often that you needed more time efficient way of doing it that is that of session. Yes I'm not going to do the whole 6 No it. Will run over I think but it is a very good riff that you do. Thank you very much we're looking at those proverbs and now back to the quiz and to the topic of title yes of books prose films etc which as you know are frequently quotations so the Mel Brooks remake of To Be or Not to be hopelessly took its title from. But for you I have the title of something which is not a quotation and which you might be forgiven for not knowing here the question is by what title is this. Better known the physical impossibility of death in the mind of someone living. This is quite a famous something the famous something I have seen it can give you a clue in. The shark Yes a shark in a tank yes yes by Damien Hirst this is the title of it it was sold in 2004 and is now worth well in excess of $8000000.00 and it's a tiger in a tiger shark. Really messed up to do that one next to. I think you know and falling to pieces I believe yes and they've had to replace the shark I think with another new shark Yes like I think I think Jaws 2 Yeah yeah so it's a work of modern art which has this rather extraordinary long title and I was interested because I was just checking out to find out what the title of Tracey Emin bed work is it's not everyone I've ever slept with and then quite a series I think here I think I think that is that this is a subtype Yeah but I know that the title of the Tracey Emin bed is my bed now. Helen though is there is a modern novel which has now been adapted in almost all known media but where does the title come from we're talking about Philip Pullman's trilogy with the title His Dark Materials I think it's from Shakespeare isn't it because given that it's a rewrite of Milton's Paradise Lost does it come from Paradise Lost Yes it is book 2 and the phrase His Dark Materials refers to the materials the Almighty Maker of God uses to create new words they are for the Pullmans His Dark Materials and Lou There has been a wonderful film cleaning up and revitalizing 1st world war film footage which was given the title they shall not grow old. So who's the quote by well you could tell me. Put it were right there is a corner of a farm field it's frightening to me but it's not it's not rooted bro it's from the going down and some we should remember. Yes And I think it's called The Last Post. Well not really for the former yes by Lawrence Binyon and it's resided every year at a multitude of Remembrance Day services but the thing about the film title is that misquotes what is in the verse which we shall now give you the film title is they shall not grow old and they shall grow not old as we that are left grow old age shall not weary them nor the years condemn at the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them one can only guess why they decided to misquote that famous line but they did and everyone let me reverse the procedure now what of the 3 film titles that link these 3 floating things Bismarck Titanic Molly Brown. Nonny brain is the unsinkable Molly Brown he was a passenger on the Titanic was she tended to be she was if you could comment on the Bismarck as well and she was the only. We're all supposed to be unsinkable And so yeah. Well that's not really it but what of the other film titles so the on sequel Molly Brown was a film title about this woman Margaret round. Played by Debbie Reynolds in the film so what are the other 2 floating titles raise the title raise the Titanic on the what about the Bismarck sink the Bismark Yes indeed you got it did. And as we face the final curtain let me ask you to finish off some saying and quotations either as they were or as you might like them to be can can you finish this phrase which is usually accompanied by a familiar bit of music change in a haircut shave and a haircut. Much cheaper for men. To. I don't think that there's a really very comfortable in the office from the others save and a haircut Well the music that goes with it is done down time so can you think of what the doctor. Revealing my baking never bother shopping and not Mary Poppins so been a haircut 5 bob Yes oh yes or 6 bits in the us or get lost or drop dead or shampoo this verbal musical cadence has been known since at least 899 a notable user was the British comedian Harry champion who sang or said hi to me i ty brown bread you don't believe me and here it is in the the g.d. Office a crappy song from West Side Story. Heaven can you finish off this Shakespearean I have voice was ever soft gentle and low you know I can't it's a simple answer to that is it from King Lear it is from King the I think it's about Cordelia but it isn't any how and how voice was ever soft gentle and low an excellent thing in a woman. I don't know whether you'd be allowed to say that you can't say anything anymore before you divide your kingdom in a free and then give it to any 2 of your daughters political correctness gone mad if no that was from King Lear and Lou Howard how would you finish off this observation regulations are written for the ability and fools and the guidance of wise men you've got it absolutely right yes where would you encounter them I wonder. What it does bar the yes precisely that it became well known through the book reach for the screeching sky which was turned into a film with Kenneth war and was Douglas Band of the legless. Ace and it is said to him in the film by an r.a. Of who was training and regulations written for the b.d. And was on the guidance of wise men then I think it dates back to the 1st World War And can anyone finish this off. In the biblical Bell shows as feast the meaning of the word to kill t e l part of the writing on the war is given as thou art wage in the balances and found wanting Yes And Art found wanting Tekel comes from the writing on the wall which is many many tech or a farce in and it interpreted by Daniel as meaning that and his kingdom has been weighed in the balance by God found wanting and will be destroyed now let me ask you finally who is the most quotable person you have ever met or dealt with and some examples of that quote ability please let's start with you again these are some one liners done by my friend aging Gray who's a great comedian and I try to message him to give me some but he who wins I have to do this from discarding back his entire Twitter feed over an afternoon. On which I clean enough for Radio 4. Some people have called me skeptical but I find that hard to believe. My girlfriend has called me nosey at least that's what she said in her diary. Was. Funny but over here we see the word gross as disgusting but it's big in Germany. Well many think that now let's turn to 2 to tell you one of who is your most quotable person well many years ago I was in a production with Rudolph Nouria if I was in a very lonely capacity I was holding a spare but I did get I did get talked to him on several occasions and over the did see quite a bit fame through ending up in productions that he was in and I remember he had what you might call a way with words I remember saying in a production of Romeo and Juliet McHugh show coming off stage having Dunst the role for the 1st time and this was Rudolph's own production and he came up to Rudolph and said. How is that. And Rudolph said it was shit. That with that was one of his favorite words yes. So apologies that was him and on another occasion we were in a restaurant after a performance and a well intentioned This was in Florida a well intentioned American couple sent over a bottle of champagne. And he called the waiter and he said this champagne is shit take it away bring me white burgundy and then he turned to b. And he said if anybody gives you a bottle of champagne always send it back asked for White. And that actually did serve me quite well because. As part of. Journalistic assignment I had to fly to New York I'm back in one day on Concorde. And they give you free wine and they offered me a bottle of champagne as I remember it was really off a set and said can you if you got any white burgundy and they bought something out that God knows what it cost but it was a lot more than the champagne. So I'm very grateful to him for that so that is the root of ne'er did did you like him I respected him. He was he was a difficult man for example before going on stage he had to lose his temper to get everything going and so some unfortunate member of the stage crew would be selected to be the target and he would just go hell for leather at this person whoever it was and if they hadn't experienced this before they would be very bewildered some lighting assistant would suddenly find himself being sworn at for minutes at a time for nothing or nothing. And then Rudolf having got himself in the state that he wanted would just go on stage and never speak to the person again so he wasn't easy but. Anyway he is your most quotable person that you have actually met however I've picked Terry Pratchett who is the author of that I I think I probably read the most and anyone who hasn't read his novels you might think of their background of elves and werewolves and that's not really my kind of thing but I please I beg of you to read the thing that I have to a religion and he's endlessly quotable For example this from the 5th element a marriage is always made up of 2 people who are prepared to swear but only the other one snores. And this from the last continent it is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die that is tree it's called life. And finally from Night Watch his some advice boy don't put your trust in revolutions they always come around again that's why they're called Revolution. Very much of the way through . And we end this time by raising a toast and it's rather a good one found appearing 1st of all in the 1790s in Britain and America this is how it is included in the book entitled The Royal Master containing many thousands of the best toasts old and new 3rd edition improved champagne to our real friends and real pain to our sham friends. I'll drink to that from quote unquote Thanks. Thank you barge in quote. Enjoying Helen Lewis and lose Jenny vacationers already I mean you celebrate Nigel reste devised to introduce the program the producer was Simon Nicole and this. It was a b.b.c. Studios production. Was a. Thief and if you'd like to write one to Reese with any quotations of queries you can email him at quote dot unquote at b.b.c. Dot co dot u.k. . On b.b.c. One this Christmas we're going to the attack in Britain so I'll check. The team and an artist house trouble of other of my rollers I love coming up are taking modest shelter that must be 700 years of mixed down in misery East seeping out of these old bearing gifts a bucket a layoff and a chocolate tools and tending to the fate of a few the most beautiful little unit in its economy was. On the Christmas Day at 7 on b.b.c. One. Now radio for the Food Programme and then a special life through food episode Sheila Dillon speaks to the chef Michel Roux Jr about food family festive inspiration and what it means to be part of a dining didn't. The community starlet has got its is it's not me much like a food yes from star that's way successful. What's the best bit of advice that your father's ever given you he's probably given a lot over the years and probably not listen to all of it but I think in general you know just stay hard working staying humble than be yourself. That's good advice . For history extremely proud. Of what he has achieved. On a chilly wet day it's a bit of a fantasy come true to be in a restaurant that's unprecedented in the u.k. For its reputation its long time in the column re spotlight and its sheer welcoming ness since the 1960 s. This place has been cooking food inspired by France and the family who founded it still run it they built a gastronomical honesty I'm in law governorship in London's Mayfair now run by Michel Roux Jr a man who through his books and t.v. Programs has become a household name it's a grand restaurant but a lot of Michelle's energy now goes into making cooking a delight for everyone so Michele let's begin with the big question what's the point these days of a grand Michelin starred restaurant they're only the rich can afford to eat well 1st of all that's not true not only convince me it's not true oh good lord I should have been in here last night I would say that 95. Scent of the clients in here last night had saved up for a special occasion so there was birthdays anniversaries graduations and such like and of course lunch menu is very much affordable so I think. Places like Le Gavroche will always exist will always be here because we all want to feel special we all want somewhere for a special occasion and Gavroche is definitely one of those places does it set standards for others I've never really thought of it in that way of us here at Le Gavroche or the roof family setting standards we set our own standards and we're highly critical of ourselves I mean I get the end of the day when I. I have a moment and I think I could have done better today and the answer to that question is always yes I suppose one of the things that really amazed me when I 1st came here was how welcoming it was how informal it was because I was expecting stuff. Yes Well that was one of the 1st things I attacked when I took over my father in the sixty's seventy's early eighty's low Gavroche was definitely for that particular kind of customer very very rich always tie jacket service was very stiff and impersonal. And when I took over in the late eighty's I thought this is just not right it's not conducive to having a wonderful time having a good time so that you know it's the next generation isn't it I mean it's a generational thing even my daughter she calls me a dinosaur you know so I call my dad a dinosaur she grabs me I don't know so I will find out later because Emily's coming That's right yeah so one of the things I wanted to do was to lighten up service 1st of all the Tyrol get rid of the toy rule which I really disliked and my father was in shock or oh no you can't do that we're going to alienate our loyal customers so on and so forth and. And then bringing in a lot more youth into the into the team as well and making far more approachable Let's actually we're sitting at a table in the restaurant but we're going to go in the kitchen because you're actually going to cook something right and I will carry on this conversation there so much you're going to make something one of the classic coverage dishes Yes I'm going to make a recess. Cheese souffle and it's been on the menu for about 50 years yet it's one of those that you can't take off the menu people travel the world to come Anita cheese souffle here Ok let's go. Right so we'll continue to look out for Scripture and it looks huge like this and that when there's nobody in here over the last 30 minutes or so and beautifully shiny and stainless steel and and I'm so this is for the Bible the 2nd 2nd it probably takes as history but for the 1st holes we need some double training right. Double Cream you know. And we're going to boil off season it and that's just in the soup let's say that your style is lighter than your father's Is that true I mean that's a lot of doublethink. I mean you know I'm not arguing this particular day she's definitely a dad that's good lots of cream lots of Buffalo lots of calories very rich and very indulgent but also a very young age because. You know you were born into this dentist Yes I mean did you ever rebel till now I'm not going into cooking No no absolutely never from a very very young age I always wanted to be a fact. And the same with my daughter she always wanted to be just and so on I mean I have very fond memories of growing up in the countryside and helping to add in the kitchen I was almost cold in the kitchen which is true and. For me the hospitality industry is where I belong it's me it's not a job it's my life some people would say well you're jolly lucky you were born it just didn't stay so you couldn't get work you had a job but just you know it was waiting for it what was it an easy ride there are 2 sides to that there's the side that says Ok you had a an easy journey lots of doors were open for you you know a show and yeah Ok maybe maybe flipside of that is taking over to cover it's not easy huge shoes to fill that already gone a great reputation so to take that on I mean for example if she's souffle which I'm going to pronounce the 1st year or so. some of the regular clients would go that's not like it should be it's not the same cheese you've change the chip like hell up with still using the same supply and now a 50 is oem but they had to say something they had to just you know and of course them back that's very difficult they are going to from and and also of the respect of my father and uncle having built these iconic brand new gown for offs and how to carry it home without breaking the mold goal or disrespecting the past is not easy to the said these are the quails for yes checked up right quayle for mine course are going to get them in the of them through this is more of a dish the quite old their stuff on i would cooks and do croak how very off with a mini as well because she use the loft quite oldsters the little one through and we use for the roast while while mushroom sympathizers a for a was a dental the way that chefs use that hands for a moving fluid around can know reaching for spastic and telling you travel as a young a chef yes so where did you where did you go over what was that plight my father recommended that are start an apprenticeship as a pastry chef because place 3 is a certain technique that a lot of chefs don't have so to instill that into me as a young age which i thought was wonderful so 2 years as an apprentice in and parents and his mouth top yeah they're very hard but then again you know paris when you 16 on your own without you parents but yes there was go to bomb but damn hard so 2 years prentiss pastry chef them walk been to leone for 2 years with on our stepan and then my military service so it was i had retained my french nationality so have jewel national to me which may come in handy in a few weeks time a few months time more a few years' time who knows And then I went to Hong Kong that 6 month stint in Hong Kong to go and see something completely different I mean there couldn't be anything more father moved from French Classical to Chinese and then going back and I worked different on plants and I. Did I did another stint in Paris as well working in a butcher's shop but moved around a bit I mean there were there was certainly on how to do this if you will which really wasn't. You. Know tasting as it's a cereal isn't it it's like it's almost not there and yet it's intensely cheesy and you can taste the Besharam. And I know you're sick of it Michel but you know it made us we made it back yeah. It's true you're talking in a much as I am I this is a good point a to ask you this question about what you did when you took over from your father I mean I already know that you change the stiffness of the service but it was a menu that had many more rich dishes like that on the souffle So how did you make it your own in terms of the food. Slowly Berry very slowly some dishes could not change the cheese souffle had to stop. The moose with caviar for example another one that had to stay I like eating that when I thought I would like to be that one any day that week and I'm one of the desserts the. Which has stayed on the menu as well for probably around 50 years now too bad the 3 that have studied the other dishes very slowly have evolved and I put my influence on those dishes but if you look at the days she look at both the calling greedy and the way they are cooked and I'm presented it's still bury me very French very classical so. So when the show went when you made this change how did your father react I always look back on those years and I think it must be incredibly difficult to let go and I think that's my sentiment and probably his sentiment that he didn't let go understandably so in many ways because he built it from nothing and I was trying to take it to the next chapter of the look of Russia's life and yeah that's that's difficult not easy he still pops in I gather for lunch sometimes he still comes in for a free lunch yes Aidan's How critical is. He is always critical and I would be an absolute not to take his advice on board. You know I'm. Doing my own thing and some of his criticism I will look out and analyze carefully and go Dad you're wrong you are wrong and although once again thanks for telling me that the consumer. Is So we have a really good relationship in that respect what about I mean you're now the middle generation you know your daughter has a ring restaurant with her husband when you go to eat in her restaurant do you find yourself playing out your own father or gosh I consciously. Don't pass criticism in the same way as my father dolls because sometimes his criticism is. I would say yeah I would actually unjust and said in a particular way that can hurt so if I have something to say about what my daughters cooked or Diego has cooked I will say it in a completely different way. So now I'm to the point. I mean it's you know interesting that you have stayed as a classic French cook even in a lighter way because you've become a sportsman really haven't you know I mean you are a marathon runner How did that come about. Even at school I was one of the few kids that actually enjoyed cross country and played rugby for my school and and loved sports my late teens early twenty's used to smoke like a chimney and probably probably drank too much as well like a lot of chefs and lived off suppressors but it was the birth of my daughter. That spurred me on that inspired me to stop smoking and to combat the effects of not smoking anymore and being extremely grumpy I started running more intensely and running more and more and I found it an amazing release a release for my mental health as well as physical health if anything probably more mental health initially and then running round the park once became running around the park twice 3 times 4 times and like a lot of people watching London Marathon got inspired and put my name in and and got refused in the panic my 1st time around so I looked in Runner's World magazine looked at the back there are some adverts there for charities that had tickets to run the marathon and one of them took my I was a small charity called Victor visually impaired children taking action because I had issues with my eyes I thought I got this one and so ever since I've been running for big turnaround and raising money for them and so yeah I've run 21 marathons to date I think my marathon years are over me now because my knees are screaming at me but I still run and still keep very fit because I really enjoy it and I find it as I said earlier not just physically beneficial but mentally. I mean there are still leaves out a problem isn't there with him and you talk about yourself as a young man drinking too much horribly and smoking and you know the drug drink culture and I'm the long hours culture I mean is that changing now I mean you know I still hear about it but you think it's getting better. I hope so I generally. Really hope so we do you still see young chefs in front of houses one knocking back espressos expressways and going out for a cigarette and I'm just living off I'm not eating properly you know I'm constantly turning out canteen go for a break and eat something and not too much coffee you see them sometimes the one with the country and it's just not right try b.b.c. Radio producers. My name is our Barrow me my son Michel as a young man and was an example of a young man should be only wish that doesn't make him. As for the food hall was loaded food was always interested to awesome my wife my den wife what was following to all of us for dinner I could see him developing as a bomb. I did not see him taking the poor fish and I did not advise him to take the profession. One day we were fishing in. One of our 5 country and he was 13 and a how often out so well me show time will soon be very soon to decide what you want to do and he said that they surprise you asking I want to be a chef and then be fed off of the water so old city Needless to say I was traded to that. Had my son wanted to do what I did. The canary starlet he's got it's is it's not me. Light or food much lighter food. No to use cream and butter generously I mean you could have had a cow in the kitchen with. Billions from Stalin that's why successful one day often use it for business no one pleasure. Yes I'm shop in the something is wrong I say so very aware but he does happen and quite a lot about food have been made so many least have learned from it. It's always very difficult to hear it so Michelle a bloody odd all those years. Obviously extremely proud. Of what he has achieved. While we're preparing to this vicious smelling dish you have to Michelin stars you know here you know do they matter is it significant anymore I think I think so I mean I think they're what they're all significant you know all the guy and they are important because you know we have to be judged someway somehow and certainly is the most respected is special in the industry I think it's most important thing industry so how do you feel I mean I know it's a tradition that when a chef leaves or a restaurant you lose a star isn't it that you know so when your father left it was 3 and then it went down to 2 and it's 2 now isn't it so do you care about getting the 3rd back is that is that drive you or one of the. The things I always say to young chefs is don't go chasing stars don't cook for them Michelin Guide don't cook for you know any guide cook for your customers number one you don't tell people who are paying good money to come and eat in your restaurant to cook for them and make sure they come back they enjoy what they enjoy the experience because if they come back then validating what you are doing you know they are they are the ultimate arbiter and if you're trying too hard or you're you've got too many little dots on a plate and a taste of nothing and you're just looks beautiful but doesn't taste anything now. You're doing it wrong. We've just finished this delectable me all the squeal you know it's just a pile of bones left on both plates that was so good this is you know it's a moment to bring up some of the difficulties you've had in your life and 2016 The Guardian got this story that people were working in this restaurant salaries way below the minimum wage and you said in the caterer the buck stops with me and I take responsibility for bulls ing up on this particular front and barest and I'm sorry for it but in no way was it done intentionally How was it done then you know how did it happen. I took my eye off the ball and as I said the box stops with me I am the boss and I took the full responsibility for it. There were several several things which exacerbated the situation but it was long hours basically. And it is something that we face in our industry it's it's it is an issue it is a problem I apologized immediately I felt absolutely pants for a really bad I still feel bad about it and we made good remedied the issue. Paid back salaries or you just changed it on both absolutely and apologized publicly and it was bad Absolutely but it was a genuine genuine era mistake so. We dust ourselves down we learn from mistakes and we move on what we did immediately was shot on a Tuesday lunch immediately cut the I was by a heck of a lot and. Everybody in the kitchen and front of house gets an extra half day off during the week as well so it's getting the time off which is so important to recharge the batteries to be out of here and strict as well as the end of service clean up and get out and that that has to happen if the hospitality industry wants to survive we have to make some changes. Let's talk about the other bits besides God because you know your t.v. Life do you remember when you were 1st on t.v. 1st t.v. Appearance Oh yeah I think so that would have been. Probably with Grossman on Master Chef as a guest that's a while ago that is it was. More along time ago but then you know about that was just as a guess and then Master Chef in the new form as a guest a couple of times and then came up with the idea of doing Master Chef The professionals. And then that kind of snowballed. Favorite that is the best. Well I think it is you know and you became a household name but you want to said a lot of chefs give up the restaurants for t.v. But that's not for me. Not not for me I've never considered myself as a celebrity chef the last thing I want to be a t.v. Chef I always said t.v. Was a byproduct of my daily life and what I do. Be here at the government run my kitchen that's not to say that I don't enjoy t.v. Work but I pick and choose what I do and it has to be something that I I really enjoy doing and I want the viewers to be able to take something from that I mean I wondered talking about the way you've reorganized coverage to be so that you're chefs have have lives outside it that they have this work life balance this mythical thing that we're all aiming for what about you have you had work life balance have you been able to have a home life. No. And that is one of the regrets and I wouldn't I'm sure my father would say the same that it's all encompassing and. I still to this day at the age of 60 next year she was probably spend more time here than I do at home. Interesting to talk to Emily about that. Yes. Because I think that I didn't neglect my daughter but but I wasn't there probably enough and you know you can't you can't go back in time well actually we've invited Emily as you know are to join us so we have to go look for Emily I think she's hiding in the kitchen I know not that she is this year's. You've been listening in. There I don't. Really want to say. It's very nice of you to do this letter. Rafts of. You have long service in your restaurants yesterday's right here. Ok So Emily you know you're the next generation of this amazing state did you feel pressure to you know to carry on and I noticed. My mom was pretty much against it I think at the beginning rather than encouraging because she she did a catering college as well and she's been in the industry I think she she knew how difficult it can be. And how hard working and passionate you need to be so I think she tried to explain that to me and you know like any mum was just worried really but of course I didn't listen I mean Michelle is just told us that you know he has real regrets about your childhood for not being more. I didn't I didn't really feel any of that mom did look after me a lot during the week but we you know we've got a very close bond and I'm very happy childhood and spent you know the Sundays together we'd spend maximum time that we could now you set up your 1st restaurant character in Notting Hill that is not quite in the Rue tradition. Yes or No I mean no you Fifa fair it's visual aspect it's definitely not a mini Gavroche food wise we both classically trained so that Stephanie that foundation of you know source is probably roasting meat and fish which is very French and traditional but then the surrounding is very different it's a lot more casual than tempted to say fun relaxed. What's the best bit of advice that your father's ever given you. I mean he's probably given a lot over the years and probably not listen to all of it but I think in general you know just stay hard working stay humble than be yourself I think I've listened to that one. Good that's good advice yeah. Well as you said Michel with a rueful look on your face you're 60 next birthday thinking about you know what your life has meant what your I mean not that I think you can give up at 60 that's a ridiculous idea but what do you think your legacy is being. Home because while it's too early to argue that question yes it's like getting a long time achievement award I don't know I want to know. There was so much more to do Ok so so much more to do so what is that more to do what you want to do. Inspire more people to come into our industry and inspire people to cook at home and to be curious about food. Ok so here we are a few days before Christmas you know some people that is actually the only meal serious meal they cook all year you know and people panicking What would your advice be obviously plan ahead keep it very simple for me Christmas time and very often it will be just good quality smoked salmon Ok I'll make my own little blue nice bit of freshly grated horseradish that's a wonderful starter it's fantastic and it goes beautifully well with a nice white burgundy or a drop of champagne that's not complicated and then yeah roast turkey or roast goose and choose a small one because the quicker they'll invariably be a hen bird and it will be sweeter and much much juicy and you don't want to eat leftovers for a week to so I think my advice would be plan ahead keep it simple and stay off the sherry. The Food Program was presented by Sheila Dillon and produced in Bristol by Lucy Taylor. Make time to hear the magic. 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