Some arguments were technical over how to account for carbon emissions which proved so difficult they were put off to next year other disputes were more fundamental over commitments for deeper cuts in emissions as demanded by the latest science but resisted by some of the biggest polluters including Australia the us and Brazil for the most vulnerable developing countries the outcome was disappointing Tina's t.j. Is an envoy from the Marshall Islands in the Pacific right now and it's asked if I feel like much much more could have been done I'm thinking about how I'm going to go home and explain that this is a really really challenging process at the same time the thing that we fight the hardest for we've got and minimum of that but we've got that and with that I can work as things stand there's a range of promises by many countries to take action on climate change but even if they're fulfilled they would still lead to dangerous temperatures in the coming decades and all the time emissions keep rising it's now up to the u.k. To handle this process taking over the chair ahead of the next big summit which will be staged in Glasgow next November ministers and officials face the task of trying to persuade the world to change course or risk another weak outcome Argentina's president Alberto often under us has condemned the fatal shooting of a British tourist and want to say Aries and said those responsible must face the full force of the law the victim is understood to be Matthew good bodies 50 and from Northamptonshire his stepson Stefan Zone who's $28.00 is also thoughts have been shot but survived Angus Crawford reports Matthew good bad was a successful businessman who lived in Northampton share it's thought he just arrived in Buenos Aires with his stepson Stephens zone and other members of the family c.c.t.v. Footage shows the 2 tourists getting out of a minibus in front of a 5 star hotel but as they start to unload their luggage they're attacked by 2 men miss to give are them. Zone can be seen repeatedly fighting off their attackers at one point they wrestle them to the ground but one of the assailants then pulls out a gun and appears to shoot the older man in the chest before turning a weapon on the younger one the robbers then escape on a motorbike the Foreign Office says it's supporting the dead man's family and helping the author a ts police have yet to make any arrests violent attacks by men using motorbikes named locally as Moto charts are not uncommon in the city hundreds of students and activists are holding an overnight protest in the Indian capital Delhi accusing the police of forcefully entering a university campus and beating students the police said that acted after they were pelted with stones and vehicles were set on fire earlier they used tear gas and batons to disperse demonstrators at a rally against a controversial citizenship law which excludes Muslim immigrants. China's state run television c.c.t.v. Dropped a live Premier League match this afternoon involve the arsenal in retaliation for critical remarks by one of the team's star players measured Ursule the German midfielder who's Muslim attacked by jing for its treatment of China's weaker Muslims the game was replaced by one featuring Arsenal's local rivals Tottenham from Beijing is Stephen McDonell on social media Ergo describes the wiggers of western China as worries who resist persecution and condemned the silence from many Muslims in the face of a crackdown by the Chinese government and Shinjiro hundreds of thousands have been interned in camps which Beijing says a 4 vocational training China's is moving against radical Islam but it's been criticized by human rights groups the Chinese Football Association said remarks had hurt the feelings of fans here asked nor has tried to distance itself from its players comments posting on Chinese social media that this was entirely his personal opinion that the club didn't get involved in politics it will be hoping for a speedy end to this crisis in order to avoid being locked out of the lucrative Chinese market. The cricket all round the bend Stokes has been named the b.b.c. Sports Personality of the year after he played a key role in helping England win the World Cup final he was the overwhelming bookmakers favorite ahead of the Formula One champion Lewis Hamilton and the gold medal sprinter Dean ashes Smith the it was decided by a public vote represents redemption for Stokes who was cleared of afraid charges following an incident outside a nightclub in 2017 he recalled that period in his speech tonight 2 years ago was a tough time for me in my life about so many people have is through the light fantastic manager friend who if ever there is here tonight you're an incredible human being a credible my knowledge I don't know how you put it with under Flintoff to start with and then meet of his. The b.b.c. Sports Personality of the year Ben Stokes thanks very much Tom and welcome to the Westminster hour you've heard the starts a majority of 80 for the conservatives the party's largest since 1987 Labour's worst result in modern times even worse than 1983 and hopes of a lip them lead remain search dashed but what does it mean for the U.K.'s voters those people who have decided to break with their party loyalties and put their trust in Boris Johnson to lend them their votes if you like and what does it mean for the future of domestic politics well here tonight to mull over the seismic events of the last few days out to look ahead to what's in store we brought together 3 seasoned observers of the political scene having worked in the leadership bunkers of the Conservative Labor and lip them parties Gavin Barwell Stewart and Polly McKenzie Gavin was the Tory m.p. For Croydon central until he lost his seat in the 2017 election he became a peer enjoying tourism a and Downing Street as her chief of staff until she resigned in July he's been with the conservative party man and boy as a researcher councillor director of campaigns and Gavin you will know that politics is a fit. Call thing isn't it I mean to reason may she won 42 percent of the vote and lost her majority Boris Johnson wins 43 percent ish and gets the biggest Tory majority since 1903 it must hurt either it will hurt in one sense in that she'll be pleased we've seen of the journey. I think within the people to miss about elections is what actually matters is not it's the gap between you and your main opponent and I can recall once when I was working for we went we were going to see Angle of Merkel and she just had her election Americans but she had fallen and was significantly lower than Tories are got but she still was in government in a reasonably strong position because the gap over the s.p.d. Was still a significant gap so that's the the difference between this election 2017 is the Labor vote she has formed very significantly Well Q Stuart also a member of the House of Lords served as senior advisor to Gordon Brown as Prime Minister then after 20 term with Ed Miliband when he became leader of the Labor Party and now teaches government at Oxford University and we heard that yes the Labor vote share plummeted and you've experienced the pain of labor election losses 20102015 personally involved now 2 elections later another period of soul searching begins to sort of think might goodness it's deja vu all over again it feels different this time I mean 2010 was actually election night itself was surprisingly good we thought we'd lose it it was a hung parliament 2015 general view was Edward squeak across the lining it's David Cameron he didn't. This this is a different kind of thing I think that the margin of victory and then if you look at the anatomy of the labor vote I mean there's a lot of Labor seats which are very small majorities now as well and it would not take a much more of a swing to have. Beyond catastrophic effect so it does feel different it also feels I mean it felt in the campaign a bit like Boris Johnson was running as the challenger in a funny way against some nameless establishment and Labor's really been you know it is a catastrophic result is no doubt about it so I mean Labor has many times when it has to do investigations into what went wrong we've had it a few times the last few years this is the most fundamental revisiting we're going to have to have and there's real pain that's real anger in your ranks now we'll be talking about the process of finding a new leader a bit later in the program but for the moment Jeremy Coburn says he's staying and we assume that he's going to address M.P.'s the parliamentary Labor Party meeting on Tuesday what do you think he should say. Well I think the I think the 2 things that are crucial firstly taking personal responsibility in a way it's more than just a ritual when you lose and you lose badly to take responsiblity because it I mean Ed did it Gordon did it Tony never had it was never in the position if he zing but he took responsibility for things are going wrong is an important part of defeat launce a lot of the boil but taking that responsibility and actually John McDonald today has done quite a lot of the 2nd thing he's got to outline the structure of the leadership contest that is to come and we've got some information on that in the last few hours it looks like a rapid process but they're going to be lots of questions about that So those are the 2 things I think people are going to want to hear about more and that a bit later on that Polly McKenzie was Nick Clegg's director of policy after helping to write a coalition agreement in 2010 she went on to found a mental health charity and is now a chief executive of the think tank Demos her mission there she says is to help build a more collaborative optimistic politics know and complain you for having the optimism still a dream so yeah I mean you know it may have been challenge some more in recent days as one of the architects of the coalition police did you ever think that you would see one party domination of this type on this scale again. You know I don't think I did there seemed to be a trend certainly running up to 2010 of just a growing pluralism in our politics from your sort of post-war guarantee of just 2 parties pendulum between them more and more different parties different points of view being reflected in a multi-party system and. With the exception of the s.n.p. Which is a force in our politics but obviously only north of the border in Scotland I think I think the logic of the 1st past the post system to basically reinforce 2 parties has massively reasserted itself it reassert itself in 201-520-1720 extension 19 reflecting back I think actually it was only the the debates in 2010 which gave Nick Clegg this kind of equal platform with Gordon Brown and David Cameron that kept the bottom across from being kind of crushed by that 2 party system back then and I think you know there was a sort of complacency that we were moving to a more European style multi-party democracy I think it's now perfectly possible that we will move back to. A pendulum certainly between Labor and the conservatives but also that pendulum very heavily weighted toward the conservative party at the moment because I I see no pathway to resolve the challenges of the Labor Party or other divisions within the left within the next 5 years government do you think there are dangers in an a.t.c. Majority. Well I would say 2 things I mean the 1st is we needed to break this impasse we were stuck in so we needed a majority government I think out of this election that had the ability to take decisions. But I think it's always a danger when you we win big in politics that it leads to complacency and actually I was quite impressed with the timing that both Michael Govan Bourse struck on Friday morning he talked about the fact that people Labor voters had loaned him their vote and he recognized that some people voted for him not thinking he was the best thing since sliced bread but actually the best of the choices on offer and I think it's really important for this conservative government that it proceeds on the basis of that humility. You know you touched on it to a degree in your in your 1st question and then needs to work really hard it can be very hard for the 3rd party to go back to its old electoral coalition so it's going to have to make this coalition work and that is going to have implications for lots of other policies that some Conservative M.P.'s I think probably haven't thought through we're going to see a less fiscally conservative conservative party is going to have to really try and solve this problem that all the parties have grappled with about how do we make the economy of our whole country as productive as London the southeast so that we spread the benefits more equally so you know you're absolutely right so there is a danger but I think the ing early signs are encouraging that they are alive to that danger and trying to guard against it let me bring in Jack Blanchard now editor of Politico London playbook an Essential Guide to all that's moving and shaking politics and your early morning e-mail sets it's all up for the day have you got to get a bit of a break have Christmas I'm afraid not know about Ok. Ok moving on look we have the election now we have the reassembling of Parliament always full of mentors doesn't it but in these particular circumstances I think even more so and we've got new M.P.'s you know excitedly making their way to Westminster. Eve got the government with a new mandate setting out its legislative program this week and you've got the losing. Hotties licking their wounds so what are the government's priorities this week just take us through some of the steps that they'll be looking at this week you know what is it I mean really does feel like a new era doesn't it starting tomorrow you know we've had this long period of conflicts in parliament and the House of Commons tearing in for going and being a block on things it's really gone on since 2015 in one form or another when we've had very small majority governments or hung parliament and that's all come to an end now and suddenly we're going to feel a very different place it's not going to be very exciting place in the way that it has been you know when the knife edge vote not anymore the vote is going to be an irrelevance these speeches are going to be an irrelevance whatever Boris Johnson and dominant Cummings is chief of staff want to do is going to happen and so that's a very different world as a journalist and indeed as an m.p. That we're going to be walking into tomorrow their priorities this week are number one to get Bracks it done as you may have heard once or twice over the past few weeks. So that the various processes that go through after an election so the M.P.'s come down we have to have an election for the speaker 1st on Tuesday and then the M.P.'s have to be sworn in which takes probably a day and a half because there's lots of them and then the Queen's speech on Thursday when they're set out their legislative program now we already had a Queen's Speech not really long ago so we know quite a lot of things that are going to be in it because they're going to basically put it forward again but with some new additions. That the number one priority is to get their withdrawal Act bill through the Commons that is tried time and time again in various forms to get through all the years Gavin knows all too well it is finally going to happen and we think it's going to happen on Friday they can have a special sitting and we'll have the 2nd meaning in the bill and that will set in motion for Britain to levy you actually for good real this time generally the 31st they'll be other things in the Queen's speech as well we're expecting something big on the n.h.s. Basically just formalizing into law the big funding pledges that we've heard the 3rd 1000000000 have sealed in blood Exactly and I think as much as anything this is just this is. To show to the people that voted for Bush and a lot of women voted because of Already his promises on the n.h.s. To show them the means it and this is not sort of quote unquote same old Tories he says this is a very different approach to the way it's been characterized by their critics I think we'll see something big on crime and punishment as well you made a big. Thing of that during the campaign particular after the terror attack on London Bridge So some new measures about clamping down on terrorism and violent offenders and so forth and that was a moment where there was a jitter in the campaign isn't it about the way that he launched straight into that he was criticised by one of the victims fathers as well as and yet he's I think going ahead with that in I do and I think they're actually quite happy with how they dealt with that I mean it's obviously a very difficult for them to be so heavily criticized by someone who was so personally involved but they felt that. In 2017 when there were there were terror attacks during the election campaign the Labor Party were able to use that to their advantage and they looked at how to resume a response to that and they decided there needs to be more get more on the front foot than than she had done and I think they feel like they sort of dealt with that hurdle pretty well during the government we talked about you know the dangers of a big majority but the question that a lot of people are asking now is which Boris Johnson is going to show up for work is it going to be one nation Boris Johnson is it going to be hard Bracks it Boris Johnson who is he going to listen to and who's he going to be accountable to. So I think um. We had a very divisive and difficult personal politics for sort of 3 and a half years and in the 1st 6 months of his perma ship he chose very clearly a side in that divide it was it was the government against parliament and against them sort of remain establishment in my instinct is you're going to see a much more sort of one nation approach you certainly heard that rhetorically in the 1st few days but I think he is somebody who wants to be like if you think back to her Margaret Thatcher I think she almost automatic too that if she was upset in her political opponents it was a sign she was doing something right and she was happy being a Marmite politician that some people adored and other people really strongly dislike I don't think that's his character so my suspicion is that you will see a more one nation Boris Johnson but the thing that will be hardest for him on that is on bricks where you know as. Your years of trying it's just something where it's very happy difficult to find a position that people can align around so you know that's that's not in these were all of the policy issues I think he will do is best to strike a tone that reaches out and if you like this new electoral coalition he's assembled almost demands that but obviously the question is whether he can now cast aside the pressure from the argy and others within the party who are calling for that Harper who would be quite happy for him to say at the end of next year if he hasn't struck a deal that we just leave without one I think you think he will live think he wears it I think it was I think was Are those people who think that this majority means he's just going to change his mind and go to a much more aligned route than something much more like 2 reasons deal I don't see that but I think the evidence of the last few months is that he wants to leave with a deal and so I think he will work very hard to get and if any and I think probably that's an incredibly difficult thing to do so you'll probably have quite a skinny initial f.d.a. That gets built on I repair the time Noah but I don't think he will proceed or no deal at the end of 2020 do not think I'll just get an extension I'd sort of assume that you know. He said Time time again we won't but we've heard him say all sorts of things time and time again and then actually didn't quite work out well I I think what I'm saying is there is a solution that is not technically an extension to the transition period the Gets us sort of scheme but then buys you more time to do other things so I think there's a way of sort of fudging the issues he's not going to actually want to do economic harm right you know it's a long time now since the last recession he has made these promises to these new voters he seems to take that seriously actually politicians been trying for the best part of 30 years to try and find a solution for helping deal and not just realize towns and regions actually it's a problem in North America is a problem across Europe that it's not like there is some easy policy solution that you just get out of the books so he's going to have to take very seriously that economic development challenge and sort of self sabotage with the kind of a wound on on a problematic Brecht's that deal I don't think will appeal he will do whatever he can do quickly but anything to kind of alleviate the economic harm I think he will leap out what about a softer brick said to think that that is is now out of the question I mean has has remained now died my question of time not helpful to him saying it's effectively over I think I think he spoke correctly and with great dignity absolutely remain has lost and I I think it's really sad but it's happened and it's democracy and you lose as I've learnt learnt Gavin's learnt you know that's you have to deal with it it will be a question for future governments future political parties to talk about what kind of relationship they want with European Union maybe the Labor Party or will will campaign next time not to return but perhaps to seek more alignment to get into a more Norway like deal you know maybe in 25 years we would be arguing for rejoining a kind of 2nd tier of the European Union has evolved over those times but I think it is right to just accept that remain has lost we are leaving and and got just allow ourselves to go through the process of grieving Stuart John McDonogh Jeremy Corbin and their ally said that Labor's defeat was down to breakfast in. Well. Opinion did research on why Labor voters previously voted Labor left this time and I think something like 44 percent said it was to do the leadership in about 17 to do with now there is definite connection between the 2 because I personally think that our position on BRICs it which was both neutral the party of them personally neutral the part germy Corben. That fed into a sense that if you can't provide leadership on the issue of the day the leadership should be more generally questions and my personal view is the BRICs issue and the korban leadership issue are connected but let's be clear about it was a it was a really really really difficult problem for Labor to navigate given its electoral base there was no easy solution to it there are different things that could have been tried but it was a conundrum and one of the great ironies of politics I think is that since the eighty's of everyone's predicted the Conservative Party would be smashed up by Europe and it's turned out that this election has done for labor 3 year rather than the Tories jacket in so many of those leave seats you know in the red wall it seemed almost that people feared Jeremy Corbyn more than they feared Boris Johnson and they were prepared to make the jump to the conservative Yeah I mean that is definite will happen for lots of people if you talk to Labor M.P.'s I should say former Labor M.P.'s now who were out you know spent the last 6 weeks knocking on doors talking to the people that they know normally vote Labor and may know very well why they they didn't do it and it's that for 2 reasons or 2 reasons it's German they don't like Germany Corban and they want Britain to leave the in some seats the one Britain's Levy even they don't think Labor would deliver it and I think you know hearing a lot from different voices in the Labor Party blaming either one thing or the other thing they've all got their own agendas The truth is it's both it's both of those things and I agree entirely with her there was no there was no right answer for labor on back so they tried to find a middle way quite heroically making some pretty. Big leaps to do it obviously failed catastrophically but I don't think that any of the things they would have done well would have left out a lot of position so I completely agree with that I think there is a 3rd thing which is interesting implications for both parties which is that a lot of the individual policies test very popular on their own and there's a real job for the Conservatives to do actually to convince people they believe in a market economy there there's an argument that has to be re one there but you talk about labor palavering most of them a lot of the road yesterday really worked what you if you test if you test nationalization of all utilities as individual policies they're popular but what I think some Labor M.P.'s miss is what voters think of the whole thing together the whole program together and whether that was a credible program overall so you can and I know this from our own experience in 2005 you can have individual policies the voters say yeah I agree with that but when you put it under the party brand and you get them all together doesn't mean that they like the overall program what you think you know I think that's right I think I think when people are faced with a choice or a general election it's a leader delivering an agenda and it's the package that's important and not just not just because it governs here and on the one suffering tonight but I mean that the governor had his own terrible experience this 2 years ago with the social care announcement was it was a combination of how it the interaction between the leadership and the and the flagship policy that was the problem didn't. Say that there was a problem it was did he call it only incontinence a sort of flood of policies all coming out at one time and not not explained properly in 2017 that is how the Labor Party managed to successfully dominate the agenda during the campaign was they they just kept announcing new things that you know the 20000 police which was 810008 comment it was just a lot of police officers which is now Boris Johnson's policy. Just helped to kind of take over the agenda around domestic terrorism for instance and and so I can understand why having tried in 2017 to offer people a lot of sweeties they thought what we needed is just a few more sweeties and of course some of that proposals are perfectly reasonable and sense. Well like the exact question about who should own the infrastructure company that is going to rollout this complicated pipes and cables for 4 for high speed broadband honestly it doesn't really matter which in the private sector or the public sector so long as it's efficient and and so that that kind of thing was reasonable and then they took that sensible reasonable and then added on oh and by the way all of people around the table who've probably got plenty of money should also get free broadband every month you know and I think they just they went for way too many sweeties My guess is what happened is that it is a guess that the Labor leadership knew they didn't want to fight on bricks if they wanted to avoid the issue of Bret's that they probably their polling showing that Jeremy was going down not very well so they thought that what they had to do was double down on policy more more policy even if it's expensive it that at least that showed that they were the genuine and your sturdy party rather than Boris be in the light and the party and the class the me of this problem for me was the was the women announcement because it was just staffed or Labor had made a case for we had made a case for of a funding of you know quite a lot of spending but it was it was costed it was provided for a document and then was the women kind of broke the principle that everything was costed because there was a search for yet another announcement because announcement after announcement was the way to make an election on the things that polled properly and positively for you rather the BRICs or leadership will govern it's now you and your party and Boris Johnson to take forward the proposals that they've promised BRICs it aside how nice to be of say BRICs aside there will be other things we hope discuss but to reason may she had the same sort of ambitions as Boris Johnson you know in terms of of focusing in targeting on the part of the electorate I mean she wanted to change the focus of the Tory party didn't she should he she talked about that just about managing the burning injustice the imbalance between the north and south she identified the red wall didn't she but is it that she didn't stick. See where he has because he's more charismatic he's a better salesman is is that what it comes down to so I would say. If she was sitting here herself her biggest regret is the 27000 campaign not actually calling the election because I think she could see how difficult it was going to be and she knew she needed a stronger parliamentary position but that she didn't run the campaign she was persuaded to run a campaign it wasn't the campaigns you want to do and you know the manifesto was also clearly a very significant was that actually I learned once I got the chief of staff job having lost my seat in the election that all our internal polling suggested we shouldn't even have a manifesto that the way to win the election was to say this is just about bricks other than that we're going to carry on with the agenda we stood on in 25th which is basically what Boris Johnson was you know it was never one thing you want to think less of it I'll repeat the bad news one thing you know that are easily did was learn the lesson of the of the manifesto but so so I think she would have entirely knowledge that. Failure on her part and obviously she had to live with that and the consequences of it for the next 2 hours but the other difference and I think it's the big difference because the point you made earlier in the program that his vote share was only one percentage point higher than she achieved even after a really bad campaign in 2 and 70 the real difference was your record and I think this is something that's very hard for people in the Westminster bubble to get around because we've all known Jerry Cohen for a long time but I think in 2017 he was a blank sheet of paper you know better and he had a good campaigning and actually there are Labor M.P.'s who he won their seat you know I lost in Croydon central because of Jeremy having a good campaign but after 2 years voters had an opinion of him but look at the Boris Johnson is now going to be judged by some of these people who lent him their vote and he may be expecting a return on their investment you know you are going to have people surely now are saying I want to be able to book my g.p. Appointment without any problems and I want to get social housing without having to wait on a list for years and I want my children's school to be open 5 days a week and fully supplied with pens and paper and he's going to be expected to deliver on that. First or absolute we're going to this is a conservative there's going to spend more on public services and what's quite interesting is they've made what I think the electorate very astute choices about where to prioritise the n.h.s. Schools police officers they actually if you talk to civil servants they'll say there are other bits of the public sector that arguably are under more pressure and I have to see how they resolve that but they look but I suppose my point is meeting the public's expectations is much more difficult to be tough to be released and that in the n.h.s. That is particularly the case you know one of the things that I found very frustrating as an m.p. And then as the train the chief of staff is I think often politicians get into problems of the just front up they get interviewed by people like you and they want to defend their record but actually on the n.h.s. The truth is you're the conservative not cut the electorate they have put more money in but not as much as it's used to. As a result the service is struggling at the moment and no major any untoward it wants and needs more of it putting more money in but they've got to make sure that money actually raises the standard of service to the level that people have a right to expect and that is one of the key things that he's going to be judged on I think a really fascinating shift if you go back to 1907 what Tony Blair promised on his pledge card was changes that would actually affect the service that you as a kind of customer received like any waiting times or actually arrest a sentence times for young offenders like punished but it's a thing about the output and what Boris Johnson has done is something that's much more easy to deliver but much less easy to actually get efficiencies out of it he's just promised to put more money in a more people you know saying $50000.00 extra nurses I mean technically you could fulfill that pledge and all of the nurses are just sort of swirling about having biscuits and of course nurses aren't going to do that at deride nurses but it's a weird thing it's actually much more Gordon Brown than Tony Blair and what Boris Johnson needs to put around him are people a bit like the sort of Michael barbers of the of the Tony Blair who are really going to take incredibly seriously the really boring technical job of driving through efficiencies right down to the front line because otherwise there's g.p. Appointments won't come through. Boris Johnson doesn't really have a parliamentary risk because you've got a majority of 80 in the checks every day we quite boring now probably but that the risks that he has I think come from the interaction of 3 things One is the bricks and the mechanics of what he has to do in the next year is not easy the northern border is still a really difficult problem that is not solved and then you've got the decision about whether to extend the transition these are tough issues and they're not just in his control 2nd he got an economy issue he wants to spend more money at a time when the economy is essentially very flat and the impact of bricks it is very very unknown to put it mildly I thought I personally will be worse than unknown but at the same time look this is 10100 years and that's certainly the exact and on emphasis and the 3rd thing he wants to cut taxes. I think and so you that those 3 things don't fit together very neatly at all and if the world economy continues to be quite fragile I think that the danger comes from that rather than from a rebellion or intimate that Chuck what do you make of that we've seen some speculation about changes in the machinery of government some departments being merged you know all of these big ideas are going to be developed quickly do you think yes I do I mean if you if you're fortunate enough to have 12 dominant Cummings blog entries for the last 5 years he's quite an obsession of his Maybe rightly people who work in Whitehall know better the machine doesn't always work very well and he shore from having read what he's written about in the one of the main things he wants to do is check up and change the way the government actually deliver services the way spends money the way it recruits senior members of staff and so forth and so yes I would think that would be quite a big priority for the government the danger is that when you're also trying to deliver a lot of stuff at the same time there is a limit to how much bandwidth you're ever going to have in Downing Street and Governor I know this better than I do but you know you can't do everything at once but I would think that would be quite something that will start to happen quite quickly in the New Year once they've got past these and I generally 31st is so massive you know I have a lot of sympathy for Doms positions about how you could have a more effective civil service but I think what we learnt massively with the Health and Social Care Act is that underlines leads are drawn on paper a more efficient way of getting n.h.s. Funding to operate and let's say it was 2 percent better people would dispute that but let's imagine it is the problem is if it costs 10 percent to go from system a to system b. Which it does then it's 5 years before you've you've got the gains to happen and and I think people are massively hugely enormously underestimate the transitional costs of shifting from an inadequate system to mete system and how long it takes how difficult it is how much resistance you get the health and social act Care Act was a top. Failure and has not changed the way money flows in the n.h.s. At all and of course that is one of those moments of issues that has to be dealt with. 2 talking about emerging departments maybe setting up or to part of a board as an immigration separate from the Home Office merging the Department for International Trade with the Department of business merging the Foreign Office and international development do you think that these are effective changes as well as scrapping the Department for accepting the e.u. Department so I think you can make a case for some or even all of them to which I don't know is a good thing to do in the 1st few months of a new government so I think he's got a big majority if you're going to do it do it now. I would that would be my advice I'm not sure would be my top priority you know one of the things that I felt really strongly about my time in number thing and actually as a minister as well is there is far too much obsession about new policy and not enough focus on delivering the things that you actually already agreed because we're always trying to fill your headlines the next day with this is the new thing we're doing a new the media tend to what reporting new stuff rather than just how existing stuff is going so the whole system is 8090 percent of the problem is to time is about developing new policy not about is the stuff that we've actually done actually working and come back to police point about the n.h.s. The voters are not going to judge Boris Johnson on how many extra nurses or doctors there are going to judge him on the quality the service of getting so and it goes back to my question about those people who expect delivery instantly I mean you know how long do you give it before you think he hasn't done what he said but. I think Don's agenda is more than just reshaping the government departments it's about it's about some of the people that you're actually getting into managed and able to deliver the change quickly on the ground and he's not got a lot of this is this is effectively a 3rd term Tory government as far as the voters will see it it's not what you're coming in 997 time. 979 Margaret Thatcher you think we might if we do a good job have 10 more years to run at this they've got to deliver change to secure this coalition in 5 years and that's the pressure on our Would it be as radical as 97 you know both men have spoken of a new door a new dawn has broken has it not I think I think one interesting things about this is gushes whether you're going to have 2 governments going on you have a dominant coming blah government the sort of inside Whitehall who wants to shake things up smash up institutions challenge the Treasury merge the Foreign Office with defeated. Have got the b.b.c. Maybe all as Or take on lots of institutions and none of the voters really care that's not front line issues as far as voters are concerned. And then you have Boris Johnson the who I think governs right I mean Boris Johnson's 1st that the prime minister was a much more liberal immigration policy in his predecessor had I thought it was a mistake from my view for Labor to try and trip him up by saying he's an old style pro austerity right wing conservative he's much more pragmatic than that and using a liberal immigration Well I don't know we'll wait and see I think I think he's got it he's got but you know he writes 2 speeches on it probably 2 speeches or most big issues of the day which Boris Johnson will show up we don't know what will be the sort of popularly achieved prime minister trying to do things or getting reelected in the Conservatives cemented in the electorate and then they sort of dominate Cummings agenda going on in the Page 3 of the newspapers all the time and I think that's the really that's the really interesting sort of Jekyll and Hyde quality that this government probably will have and Jack in the meantime over the next few weeks we have a Labor leadership campaign playing out now you mentioned the any c. Going to be getting together to decide on a timetable just tell us how the leadership campaign will be decided who's going to run it who decides the rules so there's a group called The only see the national executive committee which basically runs the Labor Party. Their offices will be meeting tomorrow to set a date for a big meeting when they will agree all of that. Of the important thing is that the balance of power on that he says is very much with Jeremy Coleman supporters the big trade unions that backed him and so on and so really not he but the people around him will control that process his his his close allies and this quite a lot of concern and anger within the Labor Party about that among critics Jameco because they're worried that they will try and not stitch it up but just make sure the rules are you know helpful towards the sort of counter that he wants to see and there is some flexibility in terms of who gets to vote if I join the Labor Party tomorrow do I get to vote if Will they have these affiliated supporters be allowed to vote pay $3.00 quid and vote is that going to happen again we're not we don't know yet that we don't know that yet and that goes could they could they say you have to have been a member for a year in order to be able to vote in this election in which case it would favor a korban Ike I don't know if I don't think they can actually say that but there is some risk there is some leeway within what they can do and I think there would certainly be a keenness on behalf of Corbin supporters to sort of lock down the membership as much as they can as it is because as we know it keep voting in Jeremy Coleman and say resume really well next time vote in somebody a bit like him which is what they want with 2 different factions in the party are now vying for control already you know there are calls for an end to Coburn isn't completely continuity Corbin is not the answer they say then you've got the Jeremy Corbyn supporters insisting that the policies in direction of the party should continue as they are in fact go even further left words in that way lies success they think which do you agree I mean the the core the core the Knights argument will be look the policies poll poll very well we admit there's a problem of leadership so let's keep the policies and change leadership but don't ditch the baby with the bathwater that will be there and there are going I'm quite worried about this. This proposed times able of some January which was meeting on this evening for the beginning the leadership contest and ending in March. I mean we have to get on with things we have to have structure but if it means that no one can join the party a lot of people left the party in the last year partly over and to Semitism overcalled and lots of other issues I like to have a sort of invitation for people to come back into the Labor Party to play a part in the next part of its. History and you'd like that to the people who are on your side of the are you know will reality in vote actually because I mean I guess most money labor friends are sort of left in the labor is not really a centrist when it's all. It's that I don't I don't want the Labor Party to essentially be a close conversation for them for the next 3 years on to be open again after or in the last couple days I think people are rejoining and doing that I also think it gives a massive advantage to people who already got not just members on their side but organizations in the party on their side as well and I think that would be seen to be unfair and the danger is that that the leadership contests will be dominated by accusations of stitch up rather than a genuine debate about where the Labor Party goes next do you think that Jeremy Corbin is right to stay all during this period of reflection or do you think he should just go. You know Miliband went. And I guess was part of the team that was talking to him that that night about he went straight away he felt that he couldn't stand up and make any decisions which wouldn't be a challenge that would get in the way of the debate some people think that was right some people think that was a terrible decision. I think I think more important whether he goes right now or not is that he says when he's going to go and has some sort of sense of his leadership no longer being one in which he's going to make fundamental decisions that he's essentially presiding for as long as he's going to stay and the timetables in place and that he takes responsibility those are the things that matter more than the actual date being tomorrow or the day after my view does the new leader and there's also going to be a deputy leader elect you know as well just the new leader need to be female and not from London. Personally I would like to see a Labor have a female leader I think it's I think it's Tory prime ministers who are women and no Labor leader ever that's been a woman other than interim leader I think that's shocking I don't think that it has to be a woman and under all circumstances but my preference for strong preference would be I think the the geography of those constituency is an interesting one because I mean Labor support now of course is very much a person. But the case for someone rooted in where Labor needs to find votes is very strong I think so I think a person making that case eloquently would probably have a slight advantage s. Well now just to move on you do know you've made it in politics when the Dead Ringers team of impressionists here on Radio 4 include you in their orbit and after their speedily turned around Election Results program on Friday they've got a Christmas special coming up and a review of the decade we talk to 2 of the team John raven's and John Culshaw we talk to them about the past 10 years and how they've captured voices beginning with recalling the coalition in 2010 years it was quite a sparse period for political characters David Cameron and Nick Clegg They were rather an a Dine really you were just sort of yearning for strong the characters but of course during those coalition year is there was one particular woman who started off as home secretary Yes biding her time yes she was basically sort of I'm keeping quiet and waiting for the posh boys to screw it up. And it wasn't until there she stood on the steps of Downing Street going do you know that if you're born poor you will die up to 4 years earlier than others you know it was her whole sort of rhetorical speech and I suddenly saw this sort of tense figure and her whole political character her whole way of conducting politics the fact that she was held she was in c.l.a she had no play do you both get a sense that there are private characters in public characters you know and sometimes the private character tries to burst through you do get these. Little flashes were is that you in the sort of unplanned chat mode now is there a sense of relaxation and off guard coming through there and you put your is a put that sometimes you know you get this is Michael gave me when he said to me Robinson So you know you could say to me Ok Go eat Ok Well I certainly wouldn't call you go very you know. But with the referendum of course politics did become more colorful some people will see it in a different light as well but figures like Nigel Faraj and Michael Gove prominent in the leaf campaign Well it was a moment when everything changed everything turned on its head and you also looked to the reporters the news reporters and it brought a lot of thought about who have to have a very recognizable white of communicating and so on and of course Laura Koons book is another one of the memorable territory that Laura Kuhn is very slight you know politics is in total disarray and I have never felt so alive it seems as if we've been given this bizarre training exercise from some other realm let's see what happens when these characters are the chess pieces of great enormous profound power see how you get on with that the entire political landscape across the whole world seems like a bizarre episode of faking it on Channel 4 this is where the kind of material that we do it is satirical and it is hopefully poking at pomposity and showing people maybe a different perspective on things but it's also just a safety valve it's a release of laughter to just be able to say ah you know let's just have a law and what about labor then because over the last decade the Labor Party's changed dramatically has now under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn left wing has brought in like Diane Abbott into the show not have a. How then is I going to turn up Ok but your introduction columnist I haven't seen and I will have to have word Jeremy because Germans are I have created in the wake of books it's the people's republic of happening where we will live in blessed. Yes we shall rise above it die and rise above it and I say this with a a a sense of crap at the back of the voice and I'm understated because I'm trying to hold in a great deal of in a rage don't ask any tabloid journalism questions the party leaders in this recent election campaign set themselves up as like these figureheads and you barely saw anybody else nobody else was allowed out I mean I was slightly sort of Unix I'd lost a reason May And also you know Andrea led some from the extreme wing of the Tupperware party she was nowhere to be seen as they was nowhere to be seen either yes all the only sky you're pretty Patel she agrees with herself all the time she really does and that's what I think I really do so there are all these characters that I was thinking was Where's my Andrea Where's my pretty you know they were nowhere to be seen it was Boris and Jeremy and Boris Johnson had a few moments during the campaign didn't he his formula has become very very visible to you completely sort of like you know through the get bricks it done rattling through say that there is less room for you to ask a proper question 30 seconds left jolly good I can survive that it got away with it still what doing Andrew Neil that there's one character that she seemed to enjoy all of the debates and any of those public appearances she was involved in that's Nicholas sturgeon Is she a bit of a gift John Well Nicholas started as as like you know she's like one of the was she's like we Scots teary and he's like you know and she's sort of like you know for me back home if I put out a lot somebody's Yeah well look we've heard all really. And now. Next year America decides again So Joe how you preparing for America deciding I think we'll have to wait and see as the Donald I'm so would say we'll have to see what the final facts are we'll have to wait and see about that he's one of those characters like every deejay has to have the Beatles in their record collection you know you got to have a Donald in your impression collection he would say look I'm I'm I'm I'm going to win I know I'm going to win I know I know I'm going to win and I'm going to have 4 more years 4 more years it is quite extraordinary that you know the American people have the chance to elect a perfectly well qualified stateswoman as their president I think the American people just couldn't forgive me for being female is there anyone know that you a both. You know that you can develop as characters I've been quite interested for a while in in any Thornberry because I just love the fact that she's kind of like Cheshire cat and she was sort of out says questions the kind of for me to know new to find out you know this isn't like you know this is that this sort of cut cattish almost character and Jess Phillips I'm very interested in. Because she's like very like Callie you know and sort of I thought I thought all of us were pushed to like I mean you know what about you John who you who you. Richard Bergen the Labor politician he's quite funny you know we thought about thoughts on about anyway that kinds of way of speaking out about a good point or not nonstop question because they seem to slightly distracted and then go straight into criticizing the opposition so you forgot what the question was already and there is you thought a lot more akin to somebody watching Gogglebox than a politician so I think he's quite funny John Culshaw and Ravens and Dragons but this Friday on the next one it's 630 here on Radio 4 Now we heard mention of Nicholas in there and Gavin given the scale of the s.n.p. Success in. Scotland is Boris Johnson right to refuse her another independence referendum has he met his match Well I think the the Scotland results will be the one thing when I look back about the really concern is one of the reasons to reason was very worried about the structure of calling an election because you know how passionate she cares about the union I think is right. To resist it because you know we've been through the idea was this was a once in a generation referendum but it's going to be politically incredibly difficult given the scale of the s. And p. Victory the other thing that people tend to mention is the results and actually there I think the gains made by the s.-t. O.-p. And the alliance are a positive thing because I hope that they will finally push the d.p. Engine fine to getting back into government still it is actually scandal the part of our country has been without a central government for years probably Which do you think is more likely an independent Scotland or a United Ireland because of course unionism no longer has a majority at Westminster all storm and some people are saying now the moment is coming for a board a poll it's. It depends enormously on where Boris Johnson ends up on Bret's it because the more he deviates our economy from the European Union Army the more likely it is that you have a united Ireland and the the less plausible and an independent Scotland becomes I'd like to see Boris Johnson spend as much time and energy and thought trying to understand Scottish identity and meaning and purpose and values as he has spent trying to understand those kind of Northern English voters if he does that I think he can hold the Union together Stu what do you think is more likely an independent Scotland or United Ireland which which might come 1st I think independence got in the converse I think the chances of a 2nd referendum actually very very high I think even if the Scottish grievance was just enough money is being spent here compared to England I think Boris could rip Johnson could resist that I think when Bracks it happens it will become a cause for Scottish demands for a 2nd referendum that will be very very difficult to resist if not by then this parliament in the early in the next one I actually think if I live long enough will probably see United Ireland as well because I did I grew poly I do think that I think the hidden dramatic change in Bracks it is the direct erecting of a new effectively a border between Liverpool and Belfast in the r.c. And I think the long term consequence of that both for unionist and Republican communities goes towards a united Ireland sub somewhere down the line Jack search up until it's been looking through the front pages quite a few of the issues that we've discussed tonight have come up on them give us a run through of you know we definitely enjoy been on topic just like tomorrow's news you heard earlier 1st time has got an interesting story that sort of takes on a bit what we've been talking about with Dominic Cummings plans to sort of shake up why a whole splash says that he's going to be looking at defense as a priority in particular the way that we spend money procurement defense and certainly is somewhere where I think a lot of money is wasted mostly except that seems to have a military chiefs a little unsettled I think any department that finds Dominic Cummings is taking a close look at the way they spend money is probably going to feeling a bit on. Settled over the next few weeks a lot of the papers splashed on the big rallies happening in the Labor Party anyone who was in fortune of the venture under social media will say exactly how angry they all are and so the last thing on the on the Telegraph that's the majority of the headlines thank you very much Jack Blanch are governed by our Polly McKenzie and Stuart thank you very much indeed that is it from the Westminster hour for this year will be back on the 5th of January for an hour from all of us here a very good night and happy Christmas. To you Carolyn the editor of the Westminster hour was Libby Jukes. The day a very small lady came to me and said she was circulating a petition at school why hasn't new movement come out personal letters from Tovia this morning I bought a whole set of materials oil brushes paper all for $180.00 lira So that was a pretty cheap way of establishing myself as an artist wasn't it spawning an extraordinary career Steadman. Said I drew the best comic pictures in Finland letters from Tova and I've been working very nervously for fear of falling too short of that accolade on Monday to Friday mornings at 945 on b.b.c. Radio 4. B.b.c. News as 11 o'clock Labor Party officials have said that Jeremy Corbyn successor could be in place by the end of March the general secretary Jenny Formby has suggested the ruling National Executive Committee meets in early January to agree a time table for the leadership contest Mr Coburn who announced he was stepping down on Friday has said that he accepts responsibility for Labour's election defeat . There's been widespread criticism of a compromise deal reached at the u.n. Climate summit in Madrid delegates agreed to put new improved carbon cutting plans on the table by the time of the next talks in 2020 but environmental campaigners accuse major polluters like the u.s. And Brazil blocking more decisive action and the u.n. Secretary General Antonio good terrorists Citabria chance for change of the Mist Maybe movie is from the Climate Campaign Group 350 dot org This year we've seen unprecedented allowed of action on the streets 7 and a half 1000000 young people rose up last September calling for action and the gap between what they are calling for and what the science has said so clearly and what happened at the tax and written what politicians are willing to deliver is only getting wider the president of Argentina has described the shooting dead of a British tourist in bonus Aires as an atrocious incident Alberto Fernandez said the people responsible had to be found and made to face the full force of the law the victim is understood to be Matthew give out who's 50 and from Northamptonshire his stepson Stefan Zone who's 28 was injured. Humberside Police have referred themselves to the police watchdog after officers shot a man in Hull this morning he's in a critical condition in hospital police were initially called to reports of a man brandishing a gun the England cricketer Ben Stokes has won the b.b.c. Sports Personality of the Year award the all rounder was man of the match when England won the World Cup in the summer the Formula One champion Lewis Hamilton finished 2nd for the sprinter Dana Asher Smith was 3rd b.b.c. News. Documentary and drama combined on b.b.c. Radio 4 Your time is limited Saddam wasted living someone else's life so too I love to decide what you want and give it everything you've got for basic results you have to take big risks but imagine waking up one morning and deciding right from now on a multimillionaire it all sounded wonderful except none of it was true the real life story of a true liar busted for skipping out on pricey hotel bills and the $60000.00 a con artist fake Airbus begins tomorrow afternoon at $250.00. We'll meet some visually impaired musicians in half an hour finding ways to flourish in the age of the touch screen 1st already a full time for the film program with Antonia quirk. It's been a very good year for a number of British directors John holds the souvenir keeps finding itself at the top of many best of 29000 lists and adults for summer cleaned up at the business the other night but the 2 directors in particular it has been a crazy year take Dex to fetch for instance in January a film he directed won the Golden Globe for Best Drama only he didn't get the credit it is this. That. This is just fair to see. Erez. Straight from Riyadh. And the reason for that is that Dexter took over Bohemian Rhapsody from the original director Bryan Singer after singer was fired as an official director for she wasn't even in the audience to witness the awards triumph at the beginning of this year but 5 months later he was in Cannes walking a red carpet with Elton John as director official this time of the musical biopic Rocket Man the film's reception there was no less an encounter Doesn't the very definition of a. Melting premiere and ironically it's now been nominated for Golden Globe for best musical or comedy when I met Dexter to talk about his crazy year we began at the beginning where was he in January I was in the edit of Rocket Man in January in Soho. You're given 10 weeks when you're the director that once you finished the film the studio have to by law when you're a member of the d.g.a. Which I'm lucky enough to be a member of now that the you're given your 10 week where your supposedly left alone to create the film and then you present it to the studio or the big cheeses fly over I flew over and watch it I think if it was running over 2 and a half hours so some intensely make it long. And facts so that. You can you know come to their satisfaction and hopefully you're wrong as well so your at this point in your idea of at this point your fact film yes and 70 January the Golden Globes right yes that's right yes yes yes yes and Bohemian Rhapsody wrong is directed officially 40 percent off officially That's right that's right I did as well yeah I know I was credit for that and I think that was a kind of. Sticky subject matter for the studio to be honest there was an open secret that you had had yet been a hand in that yet but nevertheless it was still officially a secret. Even though the press release about as soon as it happened we were yeah but I wasn't officially the director you know and they said we want to give you this executive producer credit which was very nice. Because when I came on to that film that I in their infinite wisdom wouldn't show me.