Bastard to Ukraine Marie you've done of it as she testified at a televised impeachment hearing Chris Butler reports on Twitter Mr Trump said that everywhere the career diplomat went from Somalia to Ukraine and things turned bad one of his posts was read to Ambassador you bomb of age during the hearing but the Democratic chairman of the harsh Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff and now the president real time is attacking you what effect do you think that has on other witnesses willingness to come forward Well it's very intimidating afterwards the president defended his public criticism of the former ambassador I have the right to speak I have freedom of speech just as other people do a review of all of it was applauded as she left the hearing President Trump has pardoned 2 u.s. Army officers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan and restored the rank of a Navy Seal who posed for a photo with a dead militant full pardons were granted to live tenants Clint neuron's who was serving 19 years for ordering his men to open fire on civilians and to Major Matthew Goldstein who'd been charged with murdering a suspected Taliban bomb maker their family is a welcome the move but there are concerns it's undermined military justice. The Bolivian President Evo Morales is Saudi's every right to stand in any rerun of October's presidential election but will only do so without his what his supporters want speaking in exile he also indicated that fresh elections could equally go ahead without him political class here. For the sake of democracy if they don't want me to take part I have no problem not taking part in new elections I just wonder why there's so much fear of a vote but I'm willing to set priorities and willing to bring peace to Bolivia the juke of York the 2nd son of Queen Elizabeth us to the b.b.c. He has no memory of meeting for junior Giuffre the American woman who alleges she was forced to have sex with him when she was 17 but Prince Andrew said he had let the monarchy down by remaining friends with the later Merican financier Jeffrey Epstein after he was convicted of paying a teenage girl for sex the problem was the fact that once he had been convicted. That's the bit that I kick myself for on a daily basis because it was not something that was becoming a member of family trying to uphold the highest standards and practices. That you could York you're listening to the world news from the b.b.c. Polls will open shortly in Sri Lanka where people will be choosing a new president the 2 front runners are a former defense secretary go to buy a Rajapaksa on the housing minister subject Premadasa the election comes 7 months after the devastating Easter bombings of churches and international hotels by a small group of radicalized Muslims. A bomb explosion near a protest camp in central Baghdad has killed at least 2 people and injured more than a dozen Iraqi security officials say the blast happened near Tahrir Square in the center of ongoing anti-government demonstrations they talk came in the day the respected Shia cleric Ayatollah Ali Sistani gave his support to the protests calling for an end to rampant corruption and mass unemployment in Iraq the stock exchange in Chile is posed as its biggest daily gain in more than a decade after the government announced it would total referendum on constitutional reform the national currency the peso also recovered 2 days ago it had hit an all time low prompting fears of a recession 3 judges in Indiana have been suspended down tout their pay don't by the u.s. State supreme court after a drunken night time together and did with a punch up undershooting Richard Holmes is more details being called to the bar in legal circles has nothing to do with alcohol but when 3 Indiana judges went to a law conference an Indianapolis last May a look a field evening resulted in 2 of them undergoing emergency surgery for gunshot wounds the judges had been bar hopping and tried to visit a strip club it was closed but a fight started after a judge Sabrina Bell made an offensive gesture at 2 men in a car park the disputes escalated and judges Andrew Adams and Bradley Jacobs were shot the court said the trio were being suspended because their behavior had gravely undermined public trust b.b.c. News. Hello and welcome to business matters I'm Sasha Twining on the program today Apple takes a swipe at vague ping the tech company has removed the vague ping and east cigarette apps from its store we discuss why and what the reaction has been also on the program the story that's been getting so many views online today here from the daughter of one of the victims of the Ethiopian Airlines crash as to why she couldn't be at her father's funeral it was difficult you know sitting in the car at 9 am knowing that that is going into the ground is being buried out there and then 6 hours they to receive pictures and video footage my dad if you know yesterday and I missed it you can hear more of that interview a little bit later in the program we'll also talk about proposals for a wealth tax can it work or will it just drive the wealthy to another country plus the drive in New Zealand to be predator free it's all coming up on the program today and joining me as always my 2 guests of 1st of all Sharon Bret Kelley who is in New Zealand presenter for Radio New Zealand's podcast the detail Good afternoon Sharon. Q It is such a good after knowing very much looking forward to hearing about the predator free that New Zealand is aiming for we'll talk more about that later and Ron Devonish a shell president of Wiser the Women's Institute of Science equality equity and race joins us from Richmond Virginia Good evening Rhonda good evening Sascha and great to have you on the program as well now again to start with Apple and its ban on the sale of vague pink apps now depending on your take on this you may decide that this is a technology story or a health story you may even possibly decide that this is a civil liberty story I'm going to leave that up to you but whatever your view it's certainly a hit for a huge industry the Global of aping and e cigarette industry is forecast to top $47000000000.00 us dollars by 2025 So what is the significance of apps to ease cigarettes and by paying if you don't buy there is no reason why you would know anything about this so take a listen this is a viper describing online how he uses his app alongside his device you can do a couple things here you can lock it so when it's locked if like a kid takes it or something it's the Red Lake. Can't do anything this one's going to call because I actually am taking off tomorrow and I had it myself in my overnight bag and I can find in the house I am running around looking for that I'm like yeah I can just take the app and. So it lights up and it makes noise one description of how an app can work with a device so why has Apple done this and what's the significance Well earlier I spoke to technology journalist Ina Fried Well they've said that the research is increasingly clear that vaporing poses a health risk and they basically don't want apps on their store that promote something that. As a health risk I mean critics my claim this rather sounds like Big Brother I mean. A technology company deciding what other health choices others can make I mean a little bit Apple obviously has quite the stranglehold on its App Store and people have criticized them in general for being heavy handed at times with what it allows but it's sort of their prerogative we've seen them ban other kinds of things to be clear they never let vaporing products be sold via apps so these are really companion apps I would say the most significant apps are the ones that controlled the temperature or lights of a nice ignorant and they have said that those that are already using an app can keep using it but they won't allow new customers to download it and these apps won't be visible in the store how does the technology wasn't how long will those apps themselves will presumably they might start working when Apple upgrades its software for instance you know we could see that happen I mean I don't think there are East cigarettes and Apple said it doesn't believe there is cigarettes on the market that are dependent on an app to work so it's not like you're out will stop working it was sort of a Nice to have feature to begin with for some of the cigarettes and in most cases what we're talking about is a promotional app that either did news or social networking or something like that around the cigarettes there were about 180 of these apps I think at some point they'll make a change to the operating system and these apps won't be able to be updated and so therefore the apps might eventually stop working that certainly wouldn't surprise me so what's the reaction have we had from the industry the cigarette industry I'm sure they don't like it that said they're under assault from so many directions I think this might be the least of their worries the bigger issue we've seen is a lot of places refuse their advertising and obviously cigarette nice cigarette companies do a lot. Marketing and so you know the tobacco industry has dealt with this for a long time of having the channels in which they can do that limited and the cigarette industry is seeing their opportunities to advertise and market severely limited as more and more people say no to their ad dollars I mean this is news from Apple today what about if we just wanted to out to bits and look at Android look at Google I mean does it always fall of that if one starts to buy another does do we expect to see this getting bigger often but not always so I haven't had a chance yet to check in with Google they're on my list of people to call today so it certainly could happen it's not a foregone conclusion that it will but they both a do have policies and they both do regulate what types of apps can be in their store I mean could you off the top of your head think of other instances of the types of apps that they have decided that they will remove I think we've seen everything from conversion therapy yaps have been controversial whether to leave them up or not things related to guns and firearms things related to what types of adult content are allowed or not so there's actually quite a range of categories where the app stores have set limits technology generalist Ina Fried who is speaking to me earlier let's bring you another example of somebody else who uses the apps because you may not realize how the app can be linked to the device that's new about to head now is Jason Perlow He's a senior technology editor with said Dean that he switched to have a ping he says to treat his anxiety as he said it was much more effective than conventional prescription medications that he had previously tried. Marijuana. Or did. I was one of the 1st. Most. Having. Watched if you want to take it or. Really it might take as much as Courtney minutes court to take which is a writers that are connected. Or. Brought some of these have no ability to you either in the about education that your purpose is I obviously would like to be of the fine tune they doubted he did it using a particular medication over over time I'd like to have more control interaction with what I'm using I wish I could understand if these medications are effective or not. Speaking to us about how he uses his op connected to his devices get the fees of my guests on this one we've got Sean Kelly who's a New Zealand Rhonda Vaughan Shay shop in Virginia. Just. For the sake of transparency either of you or use a nice cigarette. I know I don't know so not none of us talking about this actually have the experience of it it's quite an interesting place to be for let's talk about New Zealand Sharon what will swells the view that are not there any restrictions. Yet I find this interesting you know I never heard of an of the Viking app until I got your email this morning about. How far out of that whole thing I am but certainly in New Zealand there are some of the consumers as other parts of the world about how much the whole thing is taking off especially amongst young people amongst teenagers you know there are real worries about teens getting addicted to vaporing with nicotine we haven't had any kind of talk of a public health crisis as they has been and in the us but situationally you know there's a lot of anecdotal evidence about a lot a lot of young people getting hooked on on of a paying with Nick attain and sort of having some of some of those side effects and there is a big push now for the government to bring and tighter restrictions before the end of the year and it looks like there will be new regulations with some changes like limiting flavors that are available for of a ping and banning a ping in smokefree areas which is so the conversations particularly about the flavored was that we've been seeing happening in the United States but this is this is the removing the actual apps these are like companion apps that go alongside it and the decision obviously being taken by a technology company I mean this is fairly contentious isn't it Rhonda we were looking at some of the tweets the American Heart Association have really welcomed the move. Others though in very strong terms of been saying they have a a right to vote even a right also to use the apps that go alongside it. I do think that it is it is an edges thing move not just from the technology perspective but who actually participates in that space like that is a market if we want to think about the giga kind to me for people to create these apps in generate revenue sued so there's an aspect of that that I think we're not thinking about but I think on the other side I would have never thought that there was an app to control of a being like there I have an app for a wide area after fasting but I would have never thought about an app for baby I couldn't guarantee many people listening to the 3 of us now sort of shaking their heads and going oh yeah you have you have no idea where the find choosing that this app does although it was really interesting listening to the guest talking about his medicinal use of the various medications that he takes and he uses the app to find June that now the abs if they've already been downloaded to people's phones will not disappear from the device but they are no longer available for new downloads and Apple has sort of said in a statement that they take great care to cure right to the store as a trusted place for customers and they talk about experts from the American Heart Association talking about lung injuries and fatalities and linking them to east secrets inviting products that you know that this sort of getting in that they're making other people's decisions critics would say Wanda I agree and I think you hit on a key point that I did not realize about Apple Apple since there's a lot of the apps so even if it's my understanding that even absent have a political slant may not be available on Apple's platform but they're available maybe on and global on Google. Very So I do think that they make it very much a point to censor what they provide to their customers while that is obviously not something that we can put to them right now they have in the past so that there would be some issues around quality rather than contents not making a value judgment about and the thing like that but I am sure as both of you have said this is this is an ongoing issue and this will be something that we return to I am convinced in the future for the moment though it 18 minutes past the hour let's just bring you up to date with all the other stories around at the moment I get the latest news headlines with Sue Macgregor President Trump has been accused of witness intimidation after he launched a Twitter attack on the former ambassador to Ukraine Marie your van of it while she was giving evidence at the impeachment hearing the deposed president of Bolivia ever Maraniss a said he will stand for office again if asked to by his socialist party but that elections could go ahead without him and Prince Andras told the b.b.c. He let the royal family down by continuing to associate with the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein soon Mongomery My apologies let's bring you another story now here on business matters on the b.b.c. World Service and it is perhaps one of the most striking headlines on the b.b.c. News website today Boeing was at my father's funeral and I was not it was in line taken from an interview with a young woman who lost her father in the Ethiopian Airlines crash earlier this year March the 10th one of 2 crashes involving the Boeing 737 Max the aircraft that remains grounded the interview in question that you may have read about online was conducted by my colleague Simon Browning who's been following the story and is in touch with a lot of the families involved Now I spoke to him earlier and he played me pieces of the interview with surprise Korea and I should make you aware that both Simon and surprise speak in this following piece in graphic terms about the crash site and the human remains found there and I started by asking summon about. Sapporo is a young 25 year old who has experienced her father dying in a plane crash in a foreign land thousands of miles away from her and 156 other families they are living in a nightmare I started receiving messages about Sundays ago telling me that the families on a recent visit to the site found human remains exposed in the open when they thought the recovery was over I don't think words can express what it feels like when a family member is going to their creative enough to come back and send a message saying well you know we picked up 3 human bones today and you're like oh my gosh is that bad is that you know it's been. It's been really difficult and now we've we've heard of a burial of sorts but she wasn't there how does that come about the last 10 days have been for want of about some quite crazy for the families they've been pushing with your parents please help us please help us see all the site the rains came recently the Create a flooded remains were floating in the floodwater approached if your opponents insurance company I approached Ethiopian Airlines and then in a matter of days everything started to change. And her family and other family members received an e-mail on Tuesday telling them that the burial was going to happen on Thursday 2 days before that the burial they send the families and they're all saying we're going to be burying your loved ones in the next you know sort of 48 hours. For families who live in America long distances it might take a minimum of 20 hours to get there. And it was it was outrageous so for the poor and her family the time was just too tight and it was the fact that they couldn't go they would have been there in a 2nd money nothing would have stopped them but the short timescale simply meant that they could not get there from our understanding from what we've been told. There were just 2 relatives they were local Ethiopian families who were here with nobody else they should have been quiet is saying that deserve to have his children there and there's wife and his brother. It was difficult you know sitting in the car at 9 am and knowing that that is going into the ground is being buried when you're out there and then 6 hours they turn receiving pictures and video footage of where my my dad was essentially buried where you know a mother's child was buried or where whole family were buried and the people who were much of the most of them couldn't be present to not be there was I don't think words could ever describe that and there were mothers in the whatsapp group you know. Talking about how broken they were that they couldn't see their children to the end of the journey think how husbands who had spent all their lives with their wives couldn't be there for the moment that really not the most My dad had a funeral yesterday and I missed it what what does she feel should happen now in all honesty I don't think she really knows as a family of brothers are devastated is something that they wanted they wanted the burial ground at the crash site to be sealed and understandably I've told you the gruesome nature of it but the fact that this process has happened so quickly and left them without closure they did get some of the remains back last month from a father and their words it was less than a 3rd of him for them he is in that is his final resting place and that is the same case for so many of the other families for it to be done if you see from the pictures an industrial scale with bulldozers many in highways literally with piling into a crater in coffins you know where do you go with words without what will happen to that site now. I have had one conversation with Ethiopian Airlines and they told me yesterday that there will be a memorial at some point next year the problem is understand there went to the crash site earlier this year and it is in rural rural Ethiopia there are no roads to get to it you are going over rural farmland and it's a difficult place to reach so I would imagine there will need to be infrastructure development such a thing is going to be facilitated and just a word on what Boeing say that they will do that for Boeing they have become a lot more involved one of the mothers who lost her daughter told me yesterday that they have now put somebody in charge of dealing with the families from what we understand but we would not confirm that lady was in Ethiopia yesterday and attended that burial of all of the coffins the families while they weren't happy Boeing was in attendance they are now happy that Boeing are helping with this situation Simon Browning speaking to is a poor occur Ria his father died in the Ethiopian Airlines crash in March well in the 737 Max planes remain grounded although Boeing the world's biggest airplane manufacturer said earlier this week it hopes the plane could return to commercial service in January last month Boeing reported a more than 50 percent slide in 3rd quarter profits you can read more about this story on our website b.b.c. News dot com This is business matters from the b.b.c. World Service is 25 minutes past the hour we've asked our guests tonight about other stories that of caught their eye and that are making the news in their parts of the world Sharon Bret Kelly who's in New Zealand let me bring you in now and a story which certainly caught our attention as well when you talked about it New Zealand wanting to go predator free. Talk me through this one what what practices what was what's the issue here. A huge issue Sasha The goal is is to go be pretty is a free by 2. In t 50 sites and 31 years time the problem here is that predators we're talking about rates starts possums DHEA pigs that is just the beginning really that they kill about 25000000 night of birds each year nice of boots just cannot cope with preacher says and they're saying that 80 percent of New Zealand's bird species are at risk of extinction mainly because of these predators so 3 years ago the government announced this plane to be produced a free and if we achieve it would be the 1st in the world to be printed for free massively ambitious and quite controversial is well known and the idea involves government government and you know many millions of dollars from the government philanthropy very dependent on philanthropist putting a lot of money into it and community individuals big business and the thing is that all just in 3 years all over the country lots of different projects have have started up on this on this kind of and it's become very mainstream it's not just the greenies out the everybody's involved and recently a suburb of Wellington now capital city launched a message project actually the the most they most ambitious projects to be predictive free by Christmas and that is by mostly having a trip and every bit of resistance to this is a huge huge campaign then and I hear you say it's controversial but obviously must have an awful lot of public support but many people listening will say well hang on a 2nd is not actually going to upset whatever balance of nature you have at the moment anyway. No I because these predators are incredibly destructive hugely destructive and the controversial part of it I suppose as the use of a poison called tonight which has actually been used by New Zealand you know in New Zealand since the 1950 s. And that is the poison that is usually dropped from the area and it's targeted at. The at the predators it's very controversial and I won't go into the details Sean it's complicated but. There's all sorts of methods that Paypal is strategies that Paypal a years in but basically what they saying is that more people get on board with that and put a put a trip and they the closer we get to becoming predicts afraid we will have to see how this one unfolds it's a very interesting story the Sharon thank you very much for the details on that you're listening to business matters here on the b.b.c. World Service. This is the b.b.c. World Service where the final part of the Cold War legacy series looks at Angola it was Africa's biggest current battle a civil war that left half a 1000000 Angolans dead because we walk around the city we could be killed straightaway sniper fire bombings the rebel army was backed by the United States and apartheid South Africa against them government troops supported by the Soviet Union and Cuba today a peaceful Angola has the potential to be one of Africa's most prosperous nations but the shadow of the Cold War students lauch the way and ball and leaders have turned themselves into all the guards it's a textbook of Soviet state capture but designed all of our country in transition society is going to drive change there is probably a willingness for now interment to listen to the Cold War legacy weapons day at $1330.23. You're listening to business matters from the b.b.c. World Service with me Sasha Twining coming up in the next half hour we'll debate the wealth tax is being proposed by 2 Democratic presidential hopefuls in the United States so how would they like to see it work and does it work also the strange bedfellows that are mushrooms and abandoned car parks is a story from France that we wanted to share for you coming up. B.b.c. News President Trump has dismissed accusations that teen timid aide to the witness giving evidence to the impeachment inquiry Mr Trump launched a Twitter attack on a former ambassador to Ukraine was she was testifying at a public hearing Mary Yvonne of it Chad been describing how her efforts to fight corruption in Ukraine were undermined before she was fired by the president earlier this year. The deposed president of Bolivia ever morale is has said he will stand for office again in any rerun of last month's election if his Socialist Party wants him to balance speaking from exile in Mexico he told the b.b.c. That elections could also go ahead without him Bowser opening in Sri Lanka where people are voting for a new president just 7 months after the devastating Easter bombings in which more than $250.00 people dined at the Do front runners are a former defense secretary go to buy a Rajapaksa and the housing minister subject to play much. Prince Andrew the 2nd son of Queen Elizabeth has told the b.b.c. He has no memory of meeting Virginia Giuffre the woman who says she was forced to have sex with him when she was 17. He said he let the royal family down by continuing to associate with a convicted sex offender Geoffrey Epstein the stock exchange in Chile has posted its biggest daily gain in more than a decade after the government announced it would hold a referendum on constitutional reform Chile's interior minister has described the decision as an historic 1st step towards building a new social contract. 3 judges in the u.s. State of Indiana have been suspended and their pay don't after a drunken night turn to the dented with a punch up undershooting the intoxicated judges got into a fight outside a strip club in Indianapolis b.b.c. News. Welcome back to business matters with me Sasha Twining Let's talk now about American politics and in a broader sense the wealth tax with just under 12 months to go the battle lines are already being drawn for the next u.s. Presidential election how prosperous Americans feel come next November the 3rd will be a key factor in the result according to official figures the income gap between the rich and poor in the United States is now the widest it's been for half a century so to try and narrow that gap and fund fresh spawn spending on health care and education 2 Democrat presidential hopefuls Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have proposed a new tax on the wealth of America's richest people it's likely to dominate campaigning ahead of the election of the world's most powerful leader So what is a wealth tax and how would it work in practice want take a listen to this my colleague Mike Johnson has been doing the sums. Ok so we're going to start with a game of fantasy billionaire if you go online and find Elizabeth Warren's home page as I'm doing now is exploring dot com We will save all democracies is the one page you should sort of put through stuff but if you search into the website you'll find a calculator for the billionaires are you a billionaire says I'm going to just pretend and say yes and then click on Next ask me what my net worth is so I'm going to pretend I'm worth a 1000000000 So that's 101-234-5609 extension 0 s. My net worth is a 1000000000 now it says comes up with a search result Well you've got a lot of money now you have the opportunity to invest some of it back into our society you'd pay 19000000 dollars next year Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax and there's a consoling notes at the end it says good news you'll still be extraordinarily rich . Were. You. What Senator Warren calls Trump millionaire tax is the centerpiece of her campaign for the presidency a former law school professor her fame grew when she pushed for tougher banking regulation in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis Elizabeth Warren is now a hawk favorite to become the Democrat to challenge Donald Trump for the presidency here she is promoting the wealth tax during a Democrat candidates debate last month what I don't have a beef with billionaires My problem is you made a fortune in America you had a great idea you got out there and work for a year but you built that fortune in America I guarantee you built it in part using workers all of us help pay to educate you build it in part getting your goods to market on roads and bridges all of us help pay for you build it at least in part protected by police and firefighters. All of us help pay the salaries for and all I'm saying is you make it to the top the top 110th of one percent then pitch into cents so every other kid in America has a chance today or when she says $0.02 what she means is a tax of $0.02 on every dollar of assets that doesn't include income from a job it does include the value of property investments like shares and bonds and other assorted trophies of wealth like art gold and your thoughts Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax would apply to households with a combined net worth of at least 50000000 dollars each year they'd pay 2 percent on assets from there up to $1000000000.00 and an additional 4 percent on anything more a Democrat presidential rival Bernie Sanders has an even more stringent 12th tax plan you won't be surprised to hear that their ambitions have caused a huge stir as Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates speaking about the prospect of taking a welfare cuts at a conference last week I've paid over 10000000000 in taxes I paid more. Than anyone in taxes but I you know I'm glad to have pet you know if I'd have to pay 20000000000 that's fine. But you know when you say I should pay 100000000000 and then I'm starting to do a little math about. What I have left over Sorry I'm just kidding wealth tax might trim the fortunes of rich Americans but that doesn't mean they're all against it more than 200 of them in fact to form a group called The Path millionaires they believe the wealthy should bear a bigger share of the tax burden for the good of society I've been speaking to one of those millionaires who went into our New York studio a 10 minute walk from Wall Street to tell me more my name is Morris Pearl I had the good fortune of having a successful career by ended up at the largest investment management company the World Black Rock I'm not. One of the richest people in the United States or even in my city of New York but I made enough money that I don't need to work anymore and you know in my fifty's and you know feel very comfortable retiring at a earlier age than most people feel a wealth tax would be a good idea why is that look we used to have a system where the economy was growing every month every year people say income was going up at the top and at the bottom now for the last couple of decades we've a system where the economy is still growing but the people at the bottom like half of their country their income is going down from year to year the very fraction of the one percent their income is going up a lot every year for the 1st time half of our country really believes that their children are going to grow up less well than they did and they're right why is that happening it's happening because our laws are being changed to favor the wealthy so much more than had been the case in the past we have lower corporate taxes lower taxes on business lower taxes on investments things that wealthy people pay frankly the tax rates have gone down in many ways for the wealthiest how few thoughts about how much he might stand to lose from a wealth tax not really worried about how much I would personally lose frankly not that much I'm not that wealthy with a few tens of millions as opposed to billionaires who have well billions of dollars but I think it's just the right thing to do and so to the members of our group. Morris Pearl ending that report from Blackstone is a former managing director of Black Rock and chairman of the group millionaires and in that report from Mike Johnson So one of my guests make of this we've got Sharon Brett Kelly who's a New Zealand a shop who's in Richmond Virginia and wonder let me come to you 1st as the president of wise of the Women's Institute of Science equity and race I mean wealth tax How does that sit with you. I am sorry I'm for it but before I say that I want to say to the ones that think about something that he said and that is that he's not that yes just a few tens of billions. And so I think that that's really important as as we think about what do we what do we mean when we're talking about who's wealthy and this term net worth right and not to confuse that with income because net worth says What is the value of what you own minus what you owe on that so I could axiomatic that we could move into a space where everything that you own is leveraged and so that on paper you really have no value and we see this around a lot of bankruptcy things that happen in the u.s. Like on paper your broke but you're not really broke so so for me I'm not concerned about the wealth tax I am concerned about in general our tax code and how it has. Any qualities that impact race and gender and especially people who are at the intersection of black women in particular Asian women Native American women those who are populations that are mult more bottom rable think the other thing is is whether or not we really trust the government that once they've tax the wealthy to utilize those dollars in the ways that we care about yet so that money would be ring fenced to say right is going to go to such and such a project. And how that would then be viewed right because I think most of us think that it's going to go to social services education Elizabeth Warren is talking about you know that you get their services for our protective services fire police education but I don't know that I would really believe that that's where the money's going to go now my thoughts aside I was going to say that there is an organization the u.s. . Called the Tax March and they had a conference in April and it was just about taxing the rich and and they've got this hold to Cagny will talk to you everything about the history of taxes in the us and why we want to tax those who are wealthy and they call it a corrective tax and the same way that you have a carbon tax where you want to a disincentive by certain behaviors by taxing it so give me an example how without work. So the idea is if you tax the wealthy then it said it doesn't provide the incentive to become more well right and then there is more I'll put in quotations money in the economy for other folks who have access to the right challenge let me bring you in your list into this that in New Zealand for all listeners who may not know whether there is anything like a wealth tax in New Zealand or know what is the situation notice such really. The interesting thing about New Zealand is that there is a huge gap between the rich and poor and it's growing saw in any talk of equality in New Zealand you know there's a real concern about that growing inequality and the government right now is as looking at a shake up and Texas and looking at whether to read a proposed thrice a tax of the top right at the top right and the threshold of income tax are that you know people who are the people who are earning the top dollar a paying more but right now that it's not. It's just on the consideration the government did try to look very seriously at a capital gains tax on property and shame investments those you know that kind of thing but it got so much negative reaction that it eventually dropped that plan and . That was a huge disappointment to the us Labor Government by that so how unpopular it was and said well we're not we're just not going to go ahead with that and that that was said to be a kind of wealth tax because it would people sort as it takes on families who are in holiday homes will 2nd homes will have a lot of money invested and your eyes I'll tell you what I'll do not I'm going to play you a few opinions from people that we all spoke both of these sets all from the United States different areas in the United States New York and also in l.a. As well take a listen to want various people thought that's a better idea that punishes people for hard work and they're entitle to they being . Tax something that service that it concerns me I understand the benefits of that but it also concerns me of how would that impact job creation as well as employment for people to about time the rich pay their fair share it's about time because you know we've been struggling for years and you know how much is enough yeah I'm all for it let's redistribute it more evenly and as someone who has been very privileged I'm more than happy to pay my fair share so that other people can have the opportunities that I've had I think it's horrible I think it's unfair. For wealthy people Dr Walter you're right but I'm comfortable we get taxed enough when it's going to stop. People have very very definite dependent opinions and they really come down one side or the other gently wrong. I think I think on some levels Sadia I think that that if you don't believe that providing tax cuts to the wealthy you know trickle down economics so if you don't believe that then you're you're more likely not to be you're more likely to say let's tax it right because we don't believe that not taxing them is beneficial but if you do believe as the woman who said that she's concerned about what it means for job creation. And and and I think that what's not being spoken about Also with respect to the wealth taxing the wealthy is these opportunities owns that were created in the u.s. And the way that they operate and some folks have supported Who are you know I was reading an article earlier they were talking about Cory Booker and Scott who is who is a black Republican out of South Carolina both supported these bills as they saw these as opportunities for people who wealthy investors to come into their neighborhoods and get tax breaks for and that's seeing in their neighborhoods I think that the downside of that is the types of the investments that are happening and who's going to benefit from them so I think that this really depends on your view now also I will say this when people have money to talk about paying their fair share that folks should pay their fair share I think folks forget that if you think about our payroll system there are ways for you to protect a portion of your money through 401 K.'s through establishing tress rates so I'm wondering how many of those folks who are saying you should pay your fair say or don't participate in for a $1.00 or other pretax programs that then reduce your tax liability of the For our international listeners the 401 is the is the pension schemes. Not quite a pension but you can think about as of retirement plan yeah yes very interesting to have both of your views on the wealth tax and again as I seem to be saying an awful lot on the program today you will be something we we return to particularly as the the presidential election continues you are listening to business matters from the b.b.c. World Service let's take time now for a catch up with present. From our partner show Marketplace affordable housing in the right to have a home where you want in a wage to pay for that is a topic we've written to many times here on business matters and it's. On to the topic that cuz pick this week has his favorite moment from his week on and this is the interview that he wanted to share with us you know so I went down to Atlanta this week to sit down with the mayor Her name is Kesha lands bottom she's been in office for about a year and a half and one of the things she ran on which you'll hear in this interview is trying to make Atlanta a more affordable city because like a lot of cities in this country a great business environment with technology and entertainment down there has made Atlanta a more and more expensive city to live in So anyway we had a chat about that and some other things here she is the mayor of Atlanta Kesha Lance bottoms you know there was this term that. For many generations and many mayors before me that Atlantis is city too busy to hate and then you think about Dr King and the stories that I've heard when he won the Nobel Peace Prize and the civic leaders and business leaders demanding that there be an integrated gathering to acknowledge and to congratulate this award I think it goes back to being a city who cares as you take office year and a half ago affordable housing one of the things you campaign on making this a more affordable and welcoming city what you do how do you get people there you know there's a question how do you even elephant that may not be the best example but it really is one buy at a time and we set a goal of $1000000000.00 towards affordable housing now it was a campaign promise that when I made it I thought well let's really hope I can meet it and just by not looking at it as a $1000000000.00 goal but looking at it in terms of how do we get here step by step we're already close to $200000000.00 in it's not just about our minimum wage workers but we're also talking about our teacher than ours. Firefighters and I are the folks who come in here and clean this building at night we're talking about a cross-section of people. About those people the labor force and the kinds of jobs are being created in this city there's so much here there's entertainment with entertainment tax credits from the state there's technology here at the same time there are service industry jobs how do you do your labor plan to fit all those constituencies of varying skill and abilities levels we have created a program with a lamb a technical college called the Center for Workforce innovation so when I'm talking to Bastien the Delta Airlines and he said we have $10000.00 mechanic jobs that will need to be filled over the next 5 years and I've got to go to Alabama to get them we're saying we can train these people right here in Atlanta we're talking with the c.e.o. Of Georgia Power who Sam I've got Lyman jobs that will pay 6 figures I don't have anybody trained we're now able to begin training people for those jobs it's his job what you thought it would be when you were a. I didn't think a lot about the job I was so focused on winning I can't say that I really had any expectations there are a lot more surprises if that makes sense because they're just down sides brother you know who who prepares you for the largest cyber attack in municipal history in the country 3 months in our whole city network was taken down so that didn't have anything to do with knowing what to expect that has had to do with my bringing my commonsense to the table which a lot of days is all you have to rely on. Kai Ryssdal From our partner show Marketplace and one of the interviews that he particularly remembers from his week on air right let's talk mushrooms my promise I will explain why we've devoted the last part of the program to food in a moment but believe me people have very strong views about mushrooms when I recorded my usual video of a twitter discussing what was due to be on this particular program we had all sorts of comments about mushrooms including this one simply said mushrooms are fickle things if you try to use the same space for too long often the yields drop I know this from a local farmer in Suffolk Suffolk Incidentally being a rural county in the east of the u.k. I also have another e-mail from hemp ship that's in the south of England not New Hampshire from a mushroom producer saying the secret was all about controlling the temperature so why mushrooms why are they on this program today well we have spotted a story from France about growing mushrooms in Cannes parks abandoned come parks I could explain more but here's my colleague Dougal Shaw with the full story. When I walked into an underground car park in La Chapelle in northern Paris I encountered something I didn't expect not to. Car in sight instead stretching as far as the eye could see metallic shelves hanging from the ceiling holding blocks of earth that was sprouting mushrooms. The hot sticky humid air was thick with spores I was in a mushroom farm but what was it doing underneath the streets of Paris. Our business started in 2015 in size walk and we started by transforming an old bunker directly behind a train station of trouble tio champagne you know is founder of Arpan farm a cycle of politics and runs the farm in Paris his team also have another one in Bordeaux and more in development he explained there is a logic to their business growing this underground empire we specialize in underground facilities because it is easier to grow a vegetable and like we mainly grow organic mushroom and sugary soda underground facilities allowed us to maintain an average temperatures and really cheap regrettably stable during the whole year the harvest is sold through nearby organic grocery stores it means I've been food is grown and consumed within a short distance all very convenient and good for the environment but how have they managed to take over these huge car parks we often have the question how did we get this enormous taken to underground parking and why it didn't use well 30 years ago authority we're building tree car parking spot per person per family and it is no longer needed because now people use simply to bicycle pollutants predation or even directed scooter we end up in big cities in Europe especially in France with those huge underground car park that are banned and. Back above ground it's clear Paris still does have a lot of cars but private car ownership has in fact been in steady decline in the last decade here. Right hailing apps Doppler spikes are all providing different ways to get around the city and Paris is mayor has made it clear she wants the ear of individual car ownership to come to an end so city authorities have backed schemes like this on the ground floor and Paris is not the only city experiencing this sub to Reagan revolution as Michael could run ski u.s. Director of the Institute for transport and development policy explained to me there's been a general trend in European cities in which authorities have been realizing that tackling traffic congestion pollution and the climate crisis can happen by updating old parking policies and better regulating parking overall every car trip begins and ends in a parking space and so by regulating parking cities are able to get to their higher social goals in creating more livable and compact city life which short distances this trend is not just particular to Europe so in Mexico City i.d.p. Had an initiative called less parking more city in which we found 42 percent of the development area in the city center was in fact go in to structured parking people were tasked with the challenge of reimagining what these multi structured facilities that were under utilized could be used for as an alternative and people came up with all sorts of ideas urban farming Micro you know apartments community centers it's one of these policy areas that has an impact on the overall livability of the city even with it being out of sight. Next time you talk into a mushroom at a City restaurant just consider it may have been grown directly beneath your feet under the streets and if you came by car that's my also be the reason you struggle to find a parking space. To go show there with that report incidentally you can see the pitches own size and see what it looks like b.b.c. News dot com. And Sharon you're going to be heading off to Paris to go to some pole the mushrooms either of you. Oh I would love to throw chili. Here surely it's alertly love. Sharing and I like to yeah really well I have to say the only way I like using mushrooms as applied and lots of sorry yeah I'm fussy. You're not a. I'm I certainly am not like I get a veggie sandwich and subway to my ways like everything but. But they might like or you know as a vegan they will offer you what the portabello mushroom sandwiches and I'm like why is it if you tell someone that you're a vegetarian or your begin they offer you eggplant or mushroom and I was hiding plant or mushrooms I don't like one of them shot my shrimp I am mushrooms meat mushrooms especially the ones that they put on pizza on your sandwiches Not that I belive ones they just remind me of what a snail like my mom. Said oh yes right let's listen to me if I get make next time can we start the program talking about your cousin really likes and dislikes. Incidentally there is a bit of an argument income recycles as to whether or not a truffle is a mushroom but off the top of the heads. The most expensive truffle in the world how much do you reckon it sold. More than gold I thank. The records I mean $100.00 go for a 1000000 how. Do I know I know not on Rhonda's pizza about special Yeah says and have value. Certainly not we one of you to tonight Rhonda thank you both for joining us you've been listening to business matters say on the b.b.c. World Service. This is the b.b.c. World Service where each week for big name musicians discuss what matters most to them making music music satisfies me like nothing else because you just really powerful and it just makes me so happy to get out my face every day it's just such a peaceful way of articulating what's on my mind and in my heart. Music life today at 12 g.m.t. . And in the 30 minutes stunt with Isabel Westbury only Jemma boss be a woman's big bash when you play silly cricket for coping with the effects of multiple sclerosis who had to imagine cricket nation of Nepal for an m.c.c. Tour is helping create a sport grassroots level that same half an hour after the new screen here on the b.b.c. World Service the world's radio station. At 2 hours g.m.t. Welcome to the news room from the b.b.c. World Service I'm Alex Ritson Democrats in the u.s. Congress accused Donald Trump of witness intimidation in real time in the impeachment hearings that she had to endure yet another attack today even as she was testifying with the president of the United States is just appalling but as we have observed so often appalling in this administration is not the least bit surprising Bolivia's ousted president Evo Morales insists he could stand in any rerun of October's presidential election Prince Andrew on the American woman who says she was forced to have sex with him as a child have a recollection of. Don't remember meeting as that. Goes to the polls to elect a new president and the judges in Indiana shot in a drunken punch up at a strip club you're listening to the b.b.c. World Service. Hello this is the b.b.c. News if you own a McDonald President Trump has defended comments he made on Twitter about the former u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine after grama Kratz in the u.s. Congress accused him of witness intimidation Mr Trump said the point he'd made about Ambassador Marie your vantage as she testified in the televised impeachment hearing were not threatening Chris Buckley reports on Twitter Mr Trump said that everywhere the career diplomat went from Somalia to Ukraine and things turned bad one of his posts was read to Ambassador you bomb of age during the hearing but the Democratic chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff and now the president real time is attacking what effect do you think that has on other witnesses willingness to come forward and it's very intimidating afterwards the president defended his public criticism of the former ambassador I have the right to speak I have freedom of speech just as other people do the review of all of it was applauded as he left the hearing. President Trump has pardoned 2 s. Army officers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan under stored the rank of a Navy Seal who posed for a photo with a dead militant who pardons were granted to have Lieutenant Clint Lawrence who was serving in 1000 year sentence for ordering his men to open fire on civilians under Major Matthew Goldstein who'd been charged with murdering a suspected Taliban bomb maker their families of welcome the move but there are concerns it sent a message that battlefield crimes will be tolerated. At least 5 people are reported to have been killed in Bolivia in clashes between the security forces and supporters of the ousted president Evo Morales the worst violence was in the city of culture where support for Mr Morale is as strong speaking from exile he's told the b.b.c. He has every right to stand in any rerun of October's election but will only do so if asked to by his party pulls have opened into Lanka for the election of a new president.