Transcripts for BBC Radio 4 Extra BBC Radio 4 Extra 20191122 110000

And in a way yeah fluctuates but sort of the high end will be $1.00 something a week for the whole channel and then so that just slowly adds up weirdly. And how is it changed if you rewind back 5 years when you 1st started not into the name of people listening but in how the program the show is same isn't it yeah the thing is we spent a lot of time before we put the 1st episode out doing the formatting so we did a pilot after pilot after pi and it was you know stuff like send in your questions or the elves and all that sort of stuff and gradually it came down to this very simple idea of what if we just bring in a fact and we just talk about it and then move on don't even have an ending just put a sting of music at the you know when there's a good laugh so it's like those great songs that fade out where you like when they just jamming in the studio another 7 hours it's that kind of feel. Hello and welcome to another episode of no such thing as a fish a weekly podcast Coming to you from the Q I offices and government garden My name is Dan Schreiber I am sitting here with an itch is in skeet and you Hunter Mary and James Harkin and once again we have gathered around the microphones of our poor favorite facts from the last 7 days and in no particular order here we go starting with you James. I thought it was well you guys for. My fact this week is that the u.s. Navy's doomsday aircraft which was designed to survive a nuclear attack was recently taken out by a single bird. Ok this was in the news people might have seen it the u.s. Navy called it a class a mishap. Something that would be an appeaser Woodhouse No no I tell you what Jeeves this is a class a missile. And for me personally I would probably think differently but I think we cracked the perfect format there's no reason to touch it there's no reason to evolve it just that's it. Exactly yeah it's one of the few things I do agree with you on I think the simplicity of it the fact that there's a very basic structure is that you know it's for facts show so I think sometimes you listen to podcasts go on and on and on you're not quite sure what the structure is or how far 3 you are but you've cracked the form so you don't need to change anything. Well we'd like to crack China now and India and you know get a few 1000000000 listeners but in terms of format Yeah I hope it won't get old this is the thing that we work on so we hope it's the case that there are infinite amazing weird insane facts to be pillaged and so we'll just do that for as long as we can do you guys have different kind of research methods so that you don't end up coming with the same facts and I think we do have really different methods so we'll end up with some of the same material a bit of crossover I actually think that there are 3 of us Amy James and Andy who we research for here as well unlike suspect that we have more overlap than you done because you just have a crazy research process that none of us would understand I don't know what it entails we're going to because I have a love for that sort of weird stuff as well the crypted sort of world you know Yeti isn't all that sort of stuff and there's amazing amounts of websites out there that's full of proper science and then it just gets away at the end of the article to say and U.F.O.'s are visiting us you know but the rest of it is solid gold fact and so I have a lot of websites they would even dream of this is. And what do you think of a weird angle Yeah an angle is always about your approach to a fact that's the most wonderful thing any fact is not just the fact it's the keywords as an 8 different angles and approaches to most facts if you look at sentence you know if you see Pope John Paul took over 160 vacations while he was the Pope and other than secretly Yeah so you going Ok what do I know about Pope John Paul what do I know about people in high power going on sneaky vacations what I know about skiing are there any other famous skiers I don't know you just look at it and it becomes a sort of war of possibilities and that's the most fun thing that's why we can all come up with different things to say it shocked me when I read in this article that he went skiing because you kind of imagine the pope's grew up as religious people straight from the get go have a life that we have Pope Francis one of his early jobs was he was a nightclub bouncer actually when you think about it isn't his role of actively is my. What about this man so that you know what you can play where you don't talk about your life you want to have God and this is God the manager of the club because the only the owner of the club thought God was a d.j. According to that popular song because life is a does for the pope is the best. So you've got popes and yet he's covered what's your area of interest speciality so. I mean any kind of weird historical characters like you know Albert Santos Dumont to was actually the 1st person to fly even though we think it was the Wright Brothers and so he had a member getting really into him and he used to invite people round to have lunch with him and he had extra high tables and chairs so people could experience the joy of flight and then I think I just love getting really involved the character you've never heard of like the 1st woman to cycle around the world in the 19th century or you know just yeah I read a lot of stuff or read a great one of them is today actually from the archive so we have an archive of all the facts that we've said on the show that Andy does so he listens to the show once it goes out and catalogues it the idea is so we don't do any overlap we've been going 5 years we don't want to just repeat facts so if you see a fact for a new show and you think we might have done this we go to the archive and say can't do it this time there and is one it's about Mozart's so not unknown character but great little fact that you might not know about him he was so. Prestigious or so amazing when he was 14 and obviously all the years leading up to it but people didn't believe that he was doing it for real they thought it must be magic and he was at one concert where he was forced to take a ring off his finger because I thought it was a magic ring that allowed him to play the piano as well as he did and he had to take that off before they would believe that he was doing it for real Sokol magic when I did I actually really love particularly sort of classical musicians I think I do listen to a decent amount of classic f.m. And they're very good for Absolutely but I find classical musicians lives were always crazy like lists of if you are right about lists but I mean he was the fur. 1st person he was it was List mania it was cold and in the mid 19th century people through their underwear on stage to him wow and you know. Any topics that are off limits Yeah yeah there are we it's interesting though there's difficult reasons sort of not obvious reasons One is is it too soon to be laughing we were just actually discussing this about we're planning to do in an upcoming show about Saddam Hussein. Do we want to talk about Saddam Hussein you know he killed a lot of people it's a recent thing we know we all agree on what we think about him but yeah don't offend No it's very hard because I'm always torn with things like that like you know dictators a lot of whom have crazy habits they will do Hitler he's long enough ago crazy guy but like do we is ridiculing them making light in any way of what happened or is it kind of reducing them in a way that's positive for people it's often I think it's really hard to do and I'm interested in this is it this is me pitching for a job but how do you know how did you get into doing this because both of you if I'm wrong came through being question right is this is how it was born so where you found for that what were you doing so we both quite distance in time as well I joined in 2003 I think it was I had just moved over from Australia just finished high school but went to a weird hippy school that left me with no qualifications so university wasn't even an option if I wanted it to be a spell University exactly genuinely so I moved over here because my auntie was living here and she said Won't you come and visit and while I was here she worked for local b.b.c. Radio as an assistant producer and the boss was out one day in walks a guy called John Lloyd who's a producer saying I want to do radio show no one else was there to show him around so she showed him around and just before he left she said By the way my nephew's just ride in town wants to do comedy any advice and he thought. No not. Wanting their nephew to get into comedy but he gave his number over and we met up and we just had an incredible conversation it's conversation where you sort of felt like we were meant to meet because everything we've just said we're connected to mention what I wanted to do in life he'd just come from a meeting about doing that thing I brought my favorite book of his which he wrote with Douglas Adams called The Deeper Meaning of Liff he had written that right next to where I lived in Sydney like just all these little connection so at the end he was I where your job is too much emphasis for people who don't know John Lloyd creative Q Why not one of those I think I got it all of that's missing him is getting it and he says that Donny remarks of comedy nerd John to your skin was a big deal it was it was insane for a lot of kids they would have been like Who is this middle aged man. As I was I was like he was a god to me even even as a 19 year old I knew he was in your. Minds a very uninteresting entry story but I never intended ready to get into anything like this I worked in the Scottish Parliament so I went out and be any Scottish Parliament was it was a lot of fun and sort of imagine I go into politics or maybe journalism and then sort of apply for jobs that I didn't get and then this internship came up and you know I love researching stuff so I just applied and figured that would be a filler and I was about 10 almost 10 years ago I think but the podcast was interesting because I'd left you why after a number of years and then I was with John Lloyd having a drink and I said I was working freelance and John and I had worked on various things over the years so he and I along with our friend Rich came up with a Radio 4 panel show called the Museum of curiosity which he hosts and I produced for the 1st 7 series and I was off other places coming up with show ideas and he says ridiculous you're doing it for other people want to come back to Q Why and don't do the research but come up with show ideas and the 1st major idea really was the idea for this podcast because I was sitting in the office and I'd listen to Anna talking to James and end. And Alex knew sinking quite frankly that this was on you know if we recording this conversation is incredible and so we all got together and this is a reluctant career she really doesn't want to be here right now she's grown to love it I think I hope but I'm constantly sort of trying to reverse out of there Oh yeah yeah yeah She sat down just for a trial where we could just see if it would work at all and immediately you were like as the star of the saying we need to have her on but she didn't want to do it so we really had to talk her into it and then we wanted to do live shows which I don't do live accomplis do like you would. Really bus a writer to go Yeah so how you know then when when you end up on radio to Bret 1st or talk sport you're saying or in front of hundreds of people in a in a theater and you'll jump out the window thousands might. Come on. To find I never got nervous really I think because so I think Don and Andy were in comedy charisma and so they made maybe would have felt more the pressure of going on stage because actual they're curious about it because I didn't really ever care about that kind of thing and I never really felt nervous I don't mind it at all I'm just I'm absolutely fine with it but you know it's not super thrilling but I mean it is amazing to meet those people and to see suddenly that the people that you see the numbers of listeners going out when you know we're going to poke us but you don't quite believe they exist until you walk into a room and you see this big crowd and it's incredible and it's Chrononauts and what they like they're not the best and I just think everyone is kind of curious loves weird facts especially now there's quick quite overloaded with you all know what's in the news and I think it's a lovely escape and we do signings after most of our shows so fun to me people and you get such a huge range like an ages Well we you know we get sort of 10 year olds coming which are just on the cusp of our content being a pro. Yes sometimes you like is that good parenting this list story. And then you know get 70 year olds love it because the show that you do is so conversation as you say it's like just hearing you all chatting around the office to people when you meet them all around the world do they think they know you yes they do actually in fact just before coming in to this show today I was down outside broadcasting house and I was in the queue at. The café just downstairs and someone's like oh I was at your live show the other day we just started chatting and she sat down next to me and we continue chatting just like there's no barrier at all and I love her yeah are they good source of facts yes yeah yeah the facts you know why we keep them. We do so often our live shows we do an audience fax section where we'll put a sign up at the start saying Send us your best fax and we'll give our prize to the best one at the end and yeah you get amazing stuff we actually hired someone off the back of it years ago we did a show which was an all audience fax show actually so very lazy from us on today's sheep is nice. And she she's good Lauren and she said in a bunch of facts My favorite was always that Clark Gable and so when else who has the same initials Cary Grant Harry Harry grow aren't very early. Come on in they used to me every new year to exchange monogrammed Christmas presents that they receive to see how good it is so I don't want this this belt buckle what have you got oh I've got a flask Ok. So find someone with your initials and do the same thing. Do you guys ever use other pod casts feel sort of think. Why it's me favorites or you particularly use Radiolab. 9 times that invisible so good you know and. Best voice book us to yes go to task. Yeah nice times that invisible got again one of my favorite things about how if you see money in any old films is almost always Mexican pesos and that's because you're not allowed to use counterfeit money in films because in case it gets into the black market and it has to be so different to the u.s. Dollar so if you watch any old films up to about $960.00 s. It's going to money because of the Mexican revolution in sort of 1917 to 1900 kind of time there was a massive influx of cash and not to do with their economy broke down so that all the spare places going around they sell them to Hollywood and that's what you're saying anyway Romans told me that it's brilliant. We did it in Weirdly we did one for this week's podcast that's coming out for us it's a fact from The Economist Tim Harford The Undercover Economist So he's got a new podcast coming out and because we're buddies with him we were e-mailing and he sent over a fact to us and he sent the transcript of his 1st episode so and he has read his New York podcast and not heard it yet and got a factor of it yeah yeah he's amazing actually his 50 things that change the modern economy or that made the modern economy isn't it so he's moving I think he learned from him that if all the money kept offshore was a country it would be the 3rd biggest economy in the world I believe. So pesos the pope and list Sun What is if you have been asked about what your favorite all time Fact is and can you try it out for us now yeah there's a ton in fact Ok so I've got a few I'll tell you one which I don't know the details of as in so this is a good example of how facts that you fall in love with can quickly escape you and you launch into it at the dinner party and you realize that the details here I'll just do that publicly now. It's that Ronald. Again was shot out he was there was an attempt to assassinate him and when he was shot his bodyguard who I believe was with the Secret Service immediately grabbed him put him into the car and drove him to the hospital and got him there in time and saved his life that was down to this guy saving his life the only reason that he was in the Secret Service was because when he was younger he was watching a movie about the Secret Service in which Ronald Reagan played the lead character and that inspired him to do what he did so in a weird way Ronald Reagan saved himself that's quite spooky Yeah it's like I love that just yeah that was an incredible yeah yeah and I was you know I was going to as the president facts but we can do to President fax I think one of the 1st facts I ever found here I research was actually and I love weird connections and connections that sort of no one's quite spotted yet and it's that Long John Silver is the father of Wendy from Peter Pan because the character that long John the person who Long John Silver was based on is a poet who wrote Invictus and he had one leg and the character wanted was based on him and then his daughter is happens to be the girl who j.m. Barrie based Wendy on and I really like that. Do you have a favorite fact all of the above. Mine is but I don't know you guys might tell me this is wrong but that fantasy was invented by the Nazis I think it was yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. The Coca-Cola Company would like we're not giving the ingredients to Nazi Germany anymore because they're Nazis but the factory still existed and they were like right well we need to start making something and basically they invented found and then after the war the Coca-Cola Company was like yeah that's pretty good can we have it but you know so. There's a thing in Germany called Met So mix which is a mix of coke and fountain which is what I do every time I get in and. I didn't know that sounds wrong but it sort of. Try it you've got. Your book coming out with lots more facts in fact from the book can I grab my book quick yes or no Remember the whole thing you're following the Tim Harford trend this is a paperback podcast sort of writing and reading and yeah tell him we did the opposite way to him 1st and then the but but yeah this is based on other overflow we need so many kind of overflow trenches fill the fact that we find but this is all the news the weird facts that we find really you know scratching around you just got too many notes so annoying there's no way to put them yeah yeah well this is we decided that if we were going to do a book we weren't going to reuse any of the material we're we don't know why we do the store sells for that's the decision we made so this is complete none of this a few things have seeped in but nothing really has appeared on the podcast it's all new material Wow So while making the podcast we were writing this book and trying not to overlap with the with the stuff that we heard just off the top of my head one of my favorite facts is that there was a concert in New Zealand this year Phil Collins was playing there and one of the audience members who was watching it had a cardiac arrest and died during the concert but fortunately someone else watching the concert was a doctor in nearby and resuscitated and brought back to life my favorite bit is that he was attending Phil Collins is not dead yet Torre. Wonderful Maisie Yeah effects I like so the story of not done just the not just on fire lot of good facts in there but the hero not to Don was a guy called Father fornia he was the chaplain of the Paris fiber gaze and he rest life and limb to save the only life that was actually in danger during that fire which was the life of Jesus Christ himself and so he said in his account of it afterwards as he knew the little body and blood of Christ was in that cathedral of course there Catholics and so he ran in to save all the communion wafer and all the communion wine and even as he was coming out of the cathedral he said Burn. Beings were for walling around him as fire around him he paused unused communion one wafer to bless the church and he said afterwards I think it was a combination of this and the hard work of the firefighters. Saved not should. Like to say. So this is the book The Book of the year 2019 the world's weirdest news from the pod cast no such thing as a fish and it's a great resource for no such thing as the fish 20133 you know when they are researching what facts they need they can just come back to what happened 2019 yes he was kind of our Samuel peeps Oh yeah but that's that's exact we do talk about this sometimes where you sort of think isn't that wonderful particularly after we've done a recording we think this obscure character in history who was a footnote in some newspaper and has managed to dig up it's now become a 20 minute chat on our show when they have ever thought that one day for the tiny thing that they hope was probably forgotten that they would be smoking about 2019 it's such a fun notion that that and that's again yeah exactly what we're doing with the book it's sort of remember these people documented come to this place and find all those people who did weird and wonderful things and talk about it in a 100 years time. And I just don't try that probably no such thing as. This is out every week and their book is out now I thought Well and also do big tours of the well which is not I think it's such a nice book us to listen to you know if you like in a long car journey or whatever just because it's so full of interesting tidbits and you always find something that you take away from it and you'll be like oh my gosh did you have to know that about frogs. Because it's every week and I'm not as disciplined as you so why very few pockets which I have as like my regular. Weekly listens to no such thing as a fish are all sort of leave for a month and a half 2 months and then what you know you think of like a 9 hour car drive somewhere and you just sort of intravenously just back to back to back to back to where and it's not topical so it doesn't run out with a list of things and they're talking about something that happened months ago and if you are on a plane by yourself that you can put on your friends. Well the same is kind of true of the next focus that we're going to listen to feel like friends in your ears that you hear every week and come back to spend an hour with your old pals Yes So this is John Robbins and Alice James and they they're doing a great show on 5 Live which available as a podcast which has a huge fan base you have to follow on Twitter going on the show so many people are only listening but are a bit obsessed with them it's so popular I've been meaning to get them on the show for so long Yeah but they're very hard to track down so that is part of my regular list I listen to every week religiously Well I haven't listened to it until recently actually when we were discussing getting them on and I love it it is so funny and just silly there was this bit the other week I'm going to play a bit now I've just explained how it's just hilarious. Where the news is this some are just puddling Gloucestershire Well Dr Foster would know. What are you talking about come on mate Dr Foster went to Gloucester in a shower of rain fell in a puddle right up to his middle and never went. You gotta remember. Welsh my parents so I never knew any of these things all day amended coitus could know without Troy What does that mean 2 little dogs went to the woods a brand new shoe on every 5. To 2 dogs are turning back from the word one of the dogs has lost his forward to a little lost issue to. Dog wearing shoes here well it's just about him and about. The. G.o.p. Little horsey carrying us both over the river on the way to the mountain all the girl horse lipped What a trick. This is yes so I never know any of those ones I never like even the most basic things like London Bridge is Falling Down I was I wasn't sung those songs as well as like I said to him other bridges find out it's having an assessment next year yeah not suitable for large lorries to pass on what I'm trying to think of other ones of his son when I was in peacetime the street piece and done to at least one finger 2 finger 3 fingers dancing 4 fingers 5 finger sticks didn't dancing 7 fingers 8 figures 9 fingers dancing 10 fingers are all dancing very happily I mean if you had 10 fingers you need to go and see a doctor yeah yeah I'm fingers into opposable thumb misinformations I just love that dynamic between the 2 of them they're obviously very good friends and they have been for a long time and it is pure going nowhere around the house as chit chat so then they have great features as well yes they do they are very good features but I just I scary I was and it was a moment about that life on national radio it's not like they were calling a poke I think we could spend 20 minutes talk about nursery rhymes or our favorite motorway service stations it's like that you can do it on our clock thinking we're going to get a half past for the news although I'm very jealous of life broadcasting because when it's done it's done. Where is this we're talking right now I've got to go way up it together $1530.00. This fake laughs that we do pretend that we like each other. We're going to hear from our chat with Allison John in just a moment but 1st they have got a new podcast out at the minute called How do you cope with Allison John where they speak to famous names about challenges that they faced which is going to hear a clip now this one is from their conversation with a performance artist Briony killing and in this bit she's talking about how she made a theater show with her then fiance Tim Oh I found his. Depression medication in the back part I was going to borrow a combo box. So I put my stuff Jim stuff in his backpack and then found some satanic from so I know the name and so I just googled it and I was like oh to know that Tim had depression didn't did never mention it but 6 months in the relationship so I just called him I said oh I found your medication. Was it for and he and he sort of just hung up or something you know he was like ah and then I sent him an email saying it's Ok oh my mum's had depression in my life my auntie too so it's not big deal but he never told anybody and he had mental health problems for about a decade here and he tried suicide too you know plots and all those kinds of things and he just had never mentioned it to any girlfriend any member of his family anything and I was just like wow I know I think before there was a big that big explosion in men's mental health. And I said always you make sure about this because I don't understand that shame myself so I don't even told his friends nobody knew them told me anything moved into my house they had chronic depression and acute anxiety like he's got very poor mental health I mean you've managed is it really well now but at the time he was just pretending it didn't exist and did that did that discovery of that medication did suddenly it make sense of his behavior on the road his behavior was absolutely like Clark Kent you know like it was like he was presenting himself as a very together extremely mentally well person he'd learnt how to hide it like that and then when I gave him the opportunity to talk about it it was like for him a huge relief oh so. Very close together so stressful I know so stress was felt so so from Susan admin as well so it was like just the environment for like football like just like really cut it lad with a really powerful patriarch who was a builder you know so it's like just wasn't space there for him to be Matt and now they're totally is like it's just I think he thought it would be a lot more difficult than actually was for him to come out and that show was kind of His coming out and that show was called Fake it till you make Yeah which is actually advice that some people give for people who are lacking confidence and they say when you go into a room pretend to be confident and eventually all sort of body will learn the the behaviors of a confident person but if you're pretending you're not mentally unwell or have suffered a mental health problems that can be quite a toll on you or for so how did you then go from that situation to going Why no you haven't told anyone there's no arts taught the world of the show about well he'd met him when I was making credible so he totally got why I did and I said to him let's do one let's just tell one person and so he told his best friend he was like completely lovely and fine about it then as a collection of my tablets so he came off his top. And then became very very unwell very quickly and then because he was quite unwell I think he was a bit more well versed in saying I need to tell more people and then he was like I think it's my job making me really ill he was like a it was so stressful for him he's not the sort of person to do a $9.00 to $5.00 actually like if we were still together he'd be at home with Frank and I'd be working in the think we've got those temperament and he just said Look why don't we give your job up on our Make a show we can be in it together we can spend a couple of years tour around the world with it like you don't have to work and he was like Ok have you done any before midnight Wow Ok And it was like you just specify you specify the rows I'll be the expert in the art and you but the expert and you and this is a show about you it's nothing to do with me you know I mean you know the best way to collaborate with with non-performers I found is to just say you tell me what you want and he said Oh I don't want to look the audience in the I was one of the rules not for God sake. But it was actually quite good because for the whole show the making of the whole show his face is covered with various masks and I mean not mask work but they're pretty cool masks a paper bag and a big mine a torch kind of headed big scramble of rope and at the end it gives when he got really into it and performing when we finally made the end of the show he takes off and he says Hello my name's Tim and I've got depression and hear anxiety and that's the end and he sings a song as well did a speech for an author the pre-show nerves did that not affect his anxiety Yeah but then by that point we were so we were so well versed in talking about things and I think I've got a good way of putting performers into like number form is into those situations because we did like a sharing for like 3 of our friends and then we do a sharing for like 6 people and then you know just and discuss each time in the attic safeword and you could go offstage and you just put all of those things in and if any point you've gone that's enough for me I don't want to do any more there was like loads of year stuff in there that meant I could just perform without him or that he could be backstage talking so. I think when you give people the permission just like I don't feel like today all of that stress and anxiety he actually really liked performing so many actually got really good so it was an Ok 1st night is the Gatos theater stuff heard of no no I you're the 1st time we ever walked on stage I remember he we sat down and we started talking and then he just went blank and I was like you Ok And he was like a car member anything and then just forget what we did and we just make it up and I was like Oh Ok because it's that's what you like yeah forget that you're on stage you can do whatever you want no one knows what it's meant to be happening and also that's whenever anyone asked me you know that if they're afraid of public speaking or they go do something in their office or whatever presentation and they say do you have any tips because people tend to ask stand ups like hollow I always say Will your. Your worst case scenario is something going wrong and everyone sort of pointing or laughing and saying Jeff's idea was actually if you imagine yourself in the audience and someone forgot a stat or the slide didn't work you wouldn't even think you're just a right so it's fine to go I'll just get the right thing back up because there's a sense then that you can't go wrong Yeah exactly that's what I think and he and he literally blossomed like it was lovely because then everyone afterwards came up to him and shared their stories and you know big rugby blokes would come and cuddle him and cry and he was like This is amazing that this isn't the opposite of what I thought would happen if I started to talk about mental health Yeah so I think that gave him confidence and then he really sort of found his step so the time was around the time when there was becoming much more debate about measures mental health yeah try my best to like pick a subject that no one's talking about yet and then I hope that by doing a little bit and then calmness doing a little bit and then ever since I do a little you know that you get part of that way I like it when that happens same thing happened with credible really so was it tempting in a way to want to do that show with him forever because that show would always be I mean that show would have relevance and now you Jim parent we broke up you know what we were getting to that yeah well our son got very ill and we had to cancel a massive top so we would have probably kept going for a good couple of years it was still life left in the show we hadn't done everywhere we just on the British Council showcase we've got our international gigs and stuff you know and but for Frank was born here what impact did that show have on your relationship because to work on days or mental right. Yeah it was intense and that's silly. It was beautiful but also it was a story book version of a relationship and naturally when you're in the dressing rooms and then go and say to me like I love Ted Tam loves me and it's like I'd hate him right now. Especially because for that show I was you know I was pregnant quite a lot of it really and on the road and just tired in a voice like sucking your energy from you and you know I think actually when I speak to him about it now should we have done it I think both of us feel that politically we're really glad we did but like emotionally we're really sad that we did because I mean to be people would be so sad I just said that so I'm sorry if I don't the reader that. But I mean the toll on any relationship when you are when you don't have that space away from each other those little moments of just recharging but to have the time when you're together on stage as well is quite I mean I know I need my staring time you know Alice needs some people need different things before a gig as well yes oh yeah we would be in separate dressing rooms so then it's pretty common human because you can you have to. Go. To a wifi to finish and. We were mad all. Right after all polka wasn't. Any more performing sense and I thought about what about called Boys Don't Cry it was we got the big deal together and then we broke up we decided I would take the rights to the show and I was going to put a celebrity couple in in like some actors some celebrity actors and keep touring that that was an asset of our relationship and then he kept the but never a lovely book called Boys Don't Cry which is just an account of his life it's lovely so I did that and then he. Went back to work in the advertising industry he's certainly much more able to articulate things and things still struggles with blossoming through performance store doesn't but that's a story that any g.c.s.e. Drama teacher would be able to tell because. Yes that is why the lack of funding for the Arts specially for young teenagers is so is it's such an important issue because it brings previously very shiny children into this show which is you know a fantastic thing to see yeah performance is the best I think so that brings us up to the Phoenix but since the best performances the best was the day and we were in a row we would change over bodies Yeah and I really annoyed you every day for about 2 weeks you didn't annoy me Brian in the eastern city have got the optimism of the venue in being able to logistically manage your show annoyed me it points. Up a point I made to the venue manager said You give the show enough time given the show enough people because when you have a change of a buddy in Edinburgh I remember all my change of buddies and I was it came clear after just a couple days that your show was something quite special it was it was definitely different where I was I was used to sort of change or with stand up and talk shows and there was I was in the dressing room and the sound boomed out and there's this enormous stage set and I thought well I need to see this show on the Asli but but that show like was saying about sort of increasingly your sort of life started writing your shows as opposed to a sermon that's very true that was probably more than any show I've seen it kind of felt that you had no choice but to do that show and also want to maybe think because we spoke about him in the show you did with him yeah maybe if you tell us about Frank and then about yeah where I'm a Phoenix bitch came from yeah so then say I'm pregnant on to or on the road with fake it to make here I think I had terrible prenatal anxiety Tim's also got mental health problems we have Frank and I definitely get into depression. We stopped touring for a bear I'm sort of you know you have a baby haven't gone mad anyway just sort of going back and saw him feeling a bit more in love and not being all of that was a bit of a wobble Frankl super super it with a neurological condition called West syndrome or infantile spasms as they call it more now because it and I think it's named after paper so basically it went from like being on to or being happy to you kids go of so and very very wrong with them and they might not walk and talk all the you know they might become extremist they wouldn't have to be just like whoa what do you mean and it was just a big whirlwind so we can sort out all just went into hospital life and that lasted for about 6 months. Front group sustained a lot of brain damage Tim and I broke up about a month into it you know just like we couldn't live in the same house we just had to move out from one of the we still communicate it was just awful that happens a lot I think kids get sick and parents either put together or they pull apart when all of that kind of was like Frank was in his therapies like wasn't having seizures anymore had learning difficulties but they were being my nation it was a slower pace of it was not emergency pace I was like I need to make sure to do something and I saw as I could I don't want to make sure about this by kind of have to because it was always all consuming you know like it was like if I don't talk about this trauma and how I wasn't expecting and how privileged it was to not have had a life where I wasn't expecting that and you know everything that happened I just sort of just going to write it and to be a c happened to be doing a Phoenix season and I already knew I wanted to call it something like I'm a phoenix. Written in my diary when I was in the hospital I'm a Phoenix bitch I'd written because I was like so close to you know all the time I'd had a massive breakdown I couldn't cope all the time I was just on the edge of being able to just function and then when I felt like I was functioning and as a need to make sure about that. While we don't talk about postnatal mental health we don't talk about kids becoming disabled you don't talk about all that there was that thing again of like well if we don't talk about it I have to and even though I don't want to if I made one of those shows up to this point and I didn't then I would be honest and. That was from how do you cope with Alison John that featured Briony Kamens and you can find the rest of that episode and a good few more right now on p.c. Sounds you're listening to podcast radio hour with me and mandolin and my guest this week Luke Jones and we sat down with Alice James and John Robbins to chat about their new series it's called How do you cope with Alison John is not meant to be a joke. A little bit I think I mean. You need ellipses I suppose . But yeah it's called How to cope with Alice and John and it's conversations with people some of whom we already knew and some of whom we didn't about the challenges they've faced in their lives and it came from I think on our previous show John and I would talk quite openly about what was going on. But we'd always try and inject a little bit of humor and so we're trying to take that approach really so it's serious conversations with a little bit of levity and John when Ellis says he talks about what was going on what was going on. Well everything that goes on for anyone really and I think that's something else behind this new show is that just because you are sort of in the public eye or sort of very visible doesn't mean that you know your relatives don't die your partners don't leave you your children born with disabilities you know all these things happening for everyone and I think it's it helps people to hear someone they may see on t.v. Or listen to on the radio or admire in sport it makes them feel less alone to know that those people they look up to are actually going through exactly the same sort of things that they are and you know just because you might be very visible or earn a lot of money doesn't mean you're not you're not experiencing those sorts of trauma and. So we decided to speak to some of those people. Well kind of people well so far we've spoken to Adam Kay who was a junior doctor for many years before moving into comedy we spoke to Emily Dane who works in radio about the loss of her family and David Cotterell the footballer about his struggles with alcoholism and depression we're also going to speak to a point to Belle who wrote an incredible account of her. Marriage and how that very sadly ended with her husband suicide so you know it's it's big stuff it's big big topics but but we've also found there's an awful lot of sort of lightness and humor as well in these discussions yet the sort of Emily when I listen to that back I was surprised at how much laughter there was and Emily's a very very naturally funny person and even though we discussed some really big topics it doesn't mean that you can't inject a little bit of humor into things yeah I was listening to that one and she's saying about how it actually is sometimes at the darkest times you've got to find the comedy in it at funerals and things like that yeah and on our 5 Live show on a Friday we we once did a text where we got people to text in moments of feeling real levity and it was incredibly popular and it's amazing also the little funny things that happen in the darkest times the things you often tend to remember. So yeah there's this there's nothing wrong with I don't think so how is it different ciphering all of that kind of thing off into its own podcast what way you're free to do that kind of thing did you find yourself able to dig a little deeper with people always if you want 5 life had a precious thing will keep it like guys yeah and also is the fact that pot cust is the conversation feels more organic I think obviously there's an abridged edited version for broadcast but the podcast self you know we we just saw where the church . Took us and I think that's a very very. It's a very useful way of digging a little deeper and getting slightly more of 2 guests I think. Tell us about the 5 live show and the move from radio x. Because I was just saying earlier Monday I never listen to radio show but you know 5 live shows and I thought Oh I'll give this a try and I've been mainlining ever since has it been different in a good way or bad way well I think with radio x. Or any music show you have these little islands where you can sort of regroup when the songs are playing and also as comics you learn how to sort of punctuate those sort of 3 to 6 minute links with a with an out you know like a punchline so you can tell a little story and you can sort of see what you're going to say appear in your head and then you're going to hit that button or while someone else could hit that button in place on whereas when you're doing sort of 25 minutes in a row. You can sort of feel a bit just like your fall there. Was the worst it's got with the pressure of the ticking clock evolution you thought Minnesota news well I mean in one of the 1st few shows it was 117 we're talking until the news at 130 and I asked if we could play a Kasabian track. But that's all we've got so your phone outlet is saying it was one place and because. And because you guys it's been so much harder to get there on the radio and now doing this purpose where you know your conversations a bit more open Have you dug a bit deeper into each other. There's not a great deal of depth to go through that lets. Me have a half an hour and that's pretty much if you meet me half an hour you can then predict every decision. Next 16 years. As a surprise to me since 2006. But then on the flip side there was that when you guys start on 5 live there are some b.b.c. News online piece which you did an interview and they're quoting now Alice said of John he's not a character act this is all completely true. But it was so devastating but the interesting thing with when we started doing the radio on radio acts together that was in 2014 we'd already known each other 9 years. And we still have these long conversations at gigs or after gigs and yet when we were on radio next it never failed to surprise me that the depths that John could play I mean the with the weirdness that such as what what he would just surprise me with odd bits or memories I mean buying buying a girl 8 Valentine's Day gifts was spent 16. Thinking how do I not already know this so yeah we've you know we know each other very well but I was John put it I meant the predictable he's the complex one so John v. You're just relieved to get some fresh deeper meat into the wood for the microphone Yeah sort of like the Strutter of. Sort of an archaeological dig various things there but. It's nice to sort of throw a spanner into Alice's works every so often it's quite nice to surprise him. And also get in a cell for better that's right here is a mirror you hold up to your own right. And you guys are equal hosting it how much of yourselves in these conversations do you go into at the end just part of you wish that you could turn the tables around and you would you be a guest on your own how do you cope. I don't know I think the thing with how do you cook Sally Phillips At this she said Oh I I thought this was . I didn't realize you talked in such depths about everything and because John is the son of a come he's he's 31 and I said I was just about this think his mother was a counselor as another kind of slows you come to people he's always been very able to have deep conversations and to switch from humor to the more. Serious stuff and I you know I just I'm very chatty and I like to talk about stuff so I think that's where. That's why we found how to cope with that isn't John quite a natural fit I think for us as comedians not all comedians would do it but it seems to me a perfect sense for us who are you after who said no maybe although maybe her last year I would really like to talk to Gordon Brown and David Cameron about losing a child during the you know salute highest office the most visible someone can be the most scrutiny I thought I would be fascinated to know how they coped with that and how it impacted their their their job as prime ministers at the time because the awful thing is you can't really take time off from being prime minister knows you're the boss of the country or in charge because David Cameron his book came out recently he was saying that he went back far too quickly I think I remember saying and say he was unlike a fortnight or something yes he took out only a straight back on it but the bigger prime minister pressure he'd been under to do that would have been immense so you can understand it but it's just it's so difficult from a human aspect to have to cope with that kind of thing what kind of pod casts or interviews or interviews or things do you like that does this kind of thing you know you're in the back of your mind you think or Kirsty Young would ask this yeah I think I think Desert Island Discs actually they really are. I've heard some really moving episodes of Desert Island Discs Fox going to talk about his parents is one that yes brings to mind and again it's a side of Frank Skinner you don't usually see I'm for Fred his autobiography in this is autobiographies a fantastic read and he talks a lot about his parents his Catholicism and his alcoholism but you know very rarely in interviews because he's a comic but yet as I and disks is has has done this kind of thing in the past when like you John. I really like her the grief cast with Kara Lloyd I think that's exceptional. And. That's a real resource for people because we're checking to Emily about you know the one life. Moment that is absolutely guaranteed is death and grief but there's so little sort of advice really about what to do in where you get so much advice about you know what mortgage to get or you know pensions and stuff and marriage and kids but nothing about how to grieve and I think Harry had some fantastic work with that comics are quite good for this kind of thing you mentioned Frank Skinner there and John and a lot of your stuff on stage you kind of mix that. Deeper kind of emotional stuff and you think that all comics actually that they're perfect for kind of plunging the depths sometimes Did you have to stop yourself from just entirely booking it with comics because you got a good mix that yeah I do think sometimes when someone launches a podcast if they are a comic you can look at the sort of lineup and think that's all that makes Yeah and I think the podcast world is a quite incestuous world. But. I think it's nice to talk to people we've not met before so you know I never met Emily Dana I've never met David cultural because you you're speaking to people whose stresses and strains of their career are ones you know not to necessarily understand. So I think that's really good to get a decent cross-section of different sorts of careers and different sorts of people and you mention when you've done this live on the radio before and things are 5 Live you've had a great response from people of things that they've you know things have chimed with them or some experiences that they've had have you had people get in touch already since this is get absolutely. Tweets and Instagram messages and emails to 5 Live show yet the response has been quite overwhelming Actually I feel like you guys have got quite Bret of kind of fan base deep would you say that's true is there anything that sort of unites everybody they're all nice yeah. They're never mean search John and I've done 2 tours. 2016 and then in 2018 and we've always met people after the show's. There I think it's because we're quite nice to each other on the show in a truck certain kind of listeners not the kind of. Combative comedy that used to go on Mock the Week years ago or so so we're not this is not we're not roasting each other it's just. Sort of trucks a certain kind of person things for some and slightly gentler maybe I did I'm doing on tour at the moment and I did a gig in Salford last night and someone post a message on Facebook saying that they'd never seen such a polite queue for the bar and. Although I can see a show we did at the Apollo we learned it was very good but there are so many plaid shirts. That was the overwhelming. You with a better plan nothing wrong with it thank you both so much. Pleasure thank you in full length that's it that's all we got time for today 2 great massive podcasts and massive podcast so glad we got to speak to them they Yeah I mean and I think also they both of these have got such a mass appeal sometimes the theme park as radio can get quite nice the yes but it's the nature of God Oh we did one few weeks ago about actual play book us which is pockets where people plate and Dragons in real time which is going to be for everyone but it's very interesting that that actually exists yeah obviously Yeah I think these 2 everybody can love this and you know you can kind of play it play it to your ground in the car. Maybe you could sell the time but yeah I think it's. Time for today on pockets Radio Hour this week with live Jones and Amanda live and thank you so much for listening I'll be back next week when I'll be joined by c Chandra Chakrabarty to chat about the cast live show and we will hear from amongst others then Partridge from the beef and dairy network we'll be talking about how a show has to change when you put New Orleans right there. At the same time next week. Podcast radio presentism produced by a Monday level and. What's lurking in this weekend's 7 by mention a now abandoned house reveals its tragic history he's go. Quickly how did you help you personally get to somewhere. You saw it wasn't you so always you never forget the time how quick you give it to me how do you tell me we have time. And half time for these because we have little further to the left but how. The mysterious man show plus in $94.00 a journalist investigates foul play of the 3 deaths at the Willoughby mansion join me done Mershon the radio for extras home of scifi I fantasy and mansions this Saturday and Sunday at 6 pm and midnight. Extra that. It's 12 midday and this is Jonathan it with you on Radio 4 extra for Friday lunchtime and classic comedy next in a moment we can look forward to family planning for rabbits and live 30. For the birth. And join Sims and for another fielding stall in 1961 sick con based in the world of advertising which means there'll be something to shout about in half an hour. Let's begin back in 1978 and it may sound like the book is Why but apparently it's not the book. Well now it's high time for Radio 4 to close down as we present program especially for listeners who strongly dislike wacky forms of humor so we present not the book is way. Good evening and welcome to tonight introduced by me the obscure Scottish one. Who only does it for the suit allowance. Later on in our special holiday spot John big quote will be showing you some interesting things to do around the middle of April. And they probably showing you some interesting things to. Pick up but 1st here with me on this enormous circular podium in the studio I have the celebrated Explorer and the roughage from the leader of the recent British. If you're already familiar with these differences then it's time for you to move on to the 1st stage of courtship which is really getting down to it and here we see a young rabbit really getting down to it like there's no tomorrow. And here we see the mold really getting down to it 2. Naturally there are other important facts of life for the adolescent rabbit to learn for instance the business of meals is extremely important to a rabbit because if a rabbit goes without it to eat it becomes a rabbit with. Makes it very difficult to keep really getting down to it all the while with the bow the hats off. And all I can change. That's why I stick to rate your art.

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