Just to take the callers name and number and pass it up the chain to a supervisor, and she was never informed what happened after that. According to the department of health what happens to those calls is they go up to the burrow of epidemiology that supposedly investigates and follows up on these calls and complaints and they have gathered about 51 complaints so far kitty thats really fascinating because fractracker. Org has state by state maps. And what they have in yellow are reported violations, so people who called in with complaints about some f these areas where they are fracing, and reported problems across pennsylvania. So you can see where that has happened and its actually pretty pervasive. The question is now when it comes to health what happened. We reached out to the Pennsylvania Department of health to join us. They declined but provided us with a statement which reads in part. You can read the full statement on our website, at website website ajamstream. So mark how much has the state of pennsylvania benefited from shale drilling. Well i can tell you just speaking from the experience of my county, it has certainly been an Economic Force in northeast pa. Obviously there are concerns with it. But we have seen a lot of growth in a very rural area that has struggled for a long time, so it makes it a very difficult issue. We have seen Companies Grow locally. There is a Company Called flint energy, which was started by a husband and wife. They started with one truck in 2009, he was driving that truck himself and now he has 70 trucks and nearly 180 employees. It is certainly a powerful economic driver there is no doubt. And is that intersection, tyson where there is always the rub, right . You have the powerful economics interfering with health. What are your biggest concerns . I definitely see this as a consistent pattern, any time you have one industry that starts to dominate a region, it starts to exercise a lot of influence. And so my concerns are that we need to balance the economic benefits with the need for greater responsibility to ensure were doing this in the most Sustainable Way possible, and part of that is making sure that communities have all the rights available to them to have full say in how development occurs in their in their communities, and what we have seen time after time is efforts by local communities to try to have better zoning laws to protect the environment, the water quality, to protect their quality of life being opposed very aggressively by some of the fracing industry. Karen is there an imbalance of power between the Energy Groups and local governments . Well, i dont see it that way. Before i joined the energy industry, i spent quite a bit of time in northeastern pennsylvania all across the Northern Tier and interviewed people in communities and farmers and others that had drilling taking place. And i have gone back numerous times to see how things are going. Overall i think the picture has been one as mark presented, tremendous economic improvement and, you know, the folks that have ten wells on their property today in rural pennsylvania are seeing their children come back to the farm. They have a quality of life they did not have before. They are able to get Better Health care for legitimate health concerns. Im really disappointed that the state Health Department did not participate in this show, because i think they are the ones that deal with the issue directly, and i think its in the interest of and now i represent the oil and gas industry and it is in the try of our communes to do things in a good way. This is a highly regulated industry. We are dealing with rural areas, where frankly many of the wells that already exist, water wells, for example, are shallow and many of them based on testing that has been done recently, they were contaminated. People have problems with Drinking Water that has nothing to do with fracing. So in proposed regulations where i am in new york, they will require baseline testing of water wells anywhere where fracing is going to take place. So i think that reasonable regulation is important. I think transparency is important. And i think that this is something that is changing the face of this nation and giving them a formidable energy. Mark do you think the state department of health and the Environmental Protection agency are doing an adequate job in looking out for the citizens of your state. Well, if this story is true, then obviously not. And its something i have been critical with the state over the course of drilling since 2008 when i was first elected county commissioner when this started. There are cases one in particular, where dep officials under sworn testimony admitted they were spending less than 10 seconds on some of these rerogues erosion issues. And there are things beyond the environmental issues, and that is these post production royalty costs that are. Hahhing to royalty owners in pennsylvania. Ray said on facebook. What is your response to that . Certainly its happened in my country. Che Chesapeake Energy was fined almost a Million Dollars for contamination that happened. There is a record of these things happening, and i think that you know, we have to be very cognizant of those issues, and what tyson brought up earlier about making sure were always reaching for better ways to do these processes is what we need to do, and i think you have to have a dep and department of health that is progressive in working on those issues. Were going to continue this conversation thanks to our guests. Still ahead, two small new york towns successfully banned fracing this month. How did these communities gain so much momentum . Plus what does it mean for others across the nation who support fracing, and could it hurt local economies. And fracing alternativesing from the man behind the nations first county wide ban on the practice. We think that we dont have to choose between a Clean Energy Future and decent jobs, and what they arent telling us is the jobs those jobs wont last forever, but the chemicals that infect our water will. Yeah [ applause ] two small new york towns shook up the nationwide fight against fracing this month when they successfully won the battle to ban it. Joining us on skype to discuss this more, out of ithaca new york is the environmental lawyer who advised the town against the energy corporation. Also with us is linda levine, a Board City Council who was instrumental in mobilizing her community to support the fracing ban. Thanks for joining us. Linda, do you feel this is a precede precedentsetting case. I do think it sets precedent for people all over the world to know that just ordinary folks can do something to change this and make them aware of the dangers in the long run of how much damage can be done, and how few people will actually gain from it, and how much the rest of us will lose. Helen, you have been giving free legal advice to communities similar to this all over the region. Tell me what that has been like. What he reception has been like from folks . People are just thrilled to have the right to make local decisions locally, and the decision to drill and engage in fracing in a community has tremendous impacts on that community, and people dont want those decisions to be made by the state or by multinational corporations that dont live in the community, and this gives people that right, so they are very happy. We have seen a lot of what linda is saying here in this simple map of new york state. This is alsogy frac tracker. But if you take a look, the areas in red are areas where bans are already in place. Where its specifically not allowed. The purple areas are where there are moratoriums, and the yellow is where there are movements to ban fracing. So there has been a lot of movement and community mobilization. And so it bares the question, why here and maybe not other place places . Yeah. Karen why so much in new york and secondarily talk about the negative effects to the economy. I guess my first question, though, im looking at that map, and you mentioned the yellow. The yellow area is the area where there are towns that have passed resolutions in support of drilling who coincidently are those towns that sit on top of the heart of the marcellus shale. And those communities watch their pennsylvania neighbors prospering literally a stones throw away. They have studied this for fiveplus years and they want to see drilling. My question for people like helen and the other woman on the call will you, and helen you are funded by the [ inaudible ] foundation which is an anti fossil fuel foundation, will you allow those communities to have drilling or will you push like you did in the rest of the state. Helen . Well, the distinction is between the people who do not have the towns best interest at heart and the people in the communities. When you look at these communities that have passed resolutions in favor of gas drilling, those resolutions were passed after people had left meetings, without any public input so you are suggesting that its you are suggesting its local people across the board in the towns that have banned or imposed moratoriums there are no outside influences coming in to any of those towns with templates showing them how to pass moratoriums theres no outside influence . Providing people with a mechanism to do what they want and to protect their communities is not an outside influence can i just say [ overlapping speakers ] i want to address one thing with karen before you do, linda. And karen you brought up the issue of self f determination, which raises the question of these Oil Companies that are pursuing their drilling in communities that have already expressed their desire to not have drilling. They are going back to court filing suit after suit [ inaudible ] is not even doing business in new york. It was an originally the plaintiff in that case, they are not even doing business anymore. There are the two towns where these bans went to the court of appeals ithaca, and cooperstown. Ithaca is a University Town where theres a lot of wealth and people have a great life there theres a [overlapping speakers] lets let linda jump in. Linda please go ahead. Okay. [ overlapping speakers ] hard to call cornell faculty wealthy. Certainly theres low unemployment, its a great community, but its not about wealth, its about education and having the scientific knowledge to have come to the forefront of understanding what this really was when no one knew and realizing what the true impact was going to be. This took extensive analysis that the industry had no desire to do before jumping into it and ruining things, and one ore quick, quick point [ overlapping speakers ] what the industry did to all of these other towns was to threaten them and say as with drieden, will be sue you. We have infinite resources. We will sue your town and your taxpayers will have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend yourself, and then you will lose, so dont you dare express your democratic wish. What about Hunting Field hold on, guys i want to get our community on this there are many people saying its in my community, i find it really ta dangerous, and is ts research to back this up. And in places like new york, the question is, is there enough data to back up those movements. Tyson is back in our next segment, well ask him that question. Still ahead, alternatives to fracing. A commissioner who got his town to be the first in the nation to ban natural gas drilling. Americs miners shot down only on Al Jazeera America i support fracing because the u. S. Needs an abundance supply of lowcost energy which fracing provides. And it provides goodpaying jobs that cannot be outsourced. Welcome back. Were discussing the nationwide debate over fracing. Joining us was a heard in getting a county in new mexico to be the first ever to ban fracing in the nation. Diop what motivated you to initiate the first county ban on fracing in the u. S. . Well, there was a lot of push within our community. Im a product of industry here in new mexico, and the impacts, the social impacts, that are created as a result of industry coming into a community, as you mentioned, 4700 people across 1. 2 million acres, industry would definitely change the landscape if they were allowed to come in to our county. Tyson one of the things that was mentioned before the break was a lot of people saying, oh, its very dangerous. Its going to do this and that. But really there doesnt seem to be an abundance of sign ti titif tiff scientific evidence. Sure. Hundreds of families have been forced to sign nondisclosure agreements with the industry. This is an issue we raised with the head of the petroleum institute, what happens is a family complains, the company sighs okay, well give you cash, supply Drinking Water, all you have to do is sign this agreement, and that forbids you from discussing this with anyone. And there was a famous case in pennsylvania last year where that included two teenage children that couldnt even write a book report about fracing as a result of this gag order. So we see the inability of families to talk freely and candidly about experiences with fracing. So in order to help the Public Policy debate, we need to free these hundreds of families across the country from these gag orders. I think this is something we have seen in a lot of the responses we have gotten. That money really talks. If you look at this man. And you can see how getting might be what might silence somebody in an issue like this. Karen ward here bringing up solar. Absolutely. Solar power is not a future technology. Its here today. The city of austin signed a solar deal that will supply the city of austin with solar power at a price cheaper than both natural gas and coal. Natural gas long term is not going to be a Sustainable Energy source for the united states. The feature of energy is not going to be a Natural Resource extractive industry, but technology anchored by wind, solar, and investments in energy efficiency. And john you are working on alternatives to fracing as well. We are, we looked at an Economic Development stance here. We have a agricultural based economy here. Water is so precious to our growers here in the community. We also have looked at tourism. Tourism we i reside at 7500 feet alove sea level we have peaks that go up to 12,000 feet. They are snow capped right now. So the Tourism Industry is next to none. So if you bring industry within the community and change that landscape, thats something that i think most of us arent able to tolerate here in mora county. All right. On that note we have got to end the conversation. Thanks to all of our guest today. Until next time, well see you online. Welcome to Al Jazeera America. Im del walters these are the stories we are following for you. 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