Unarmed black man in ferguson, missouri, there is a similar script to the events that played out recently in ferguson a grand jury in Staten Island section of new york city decided not to indict new York Police OfficerDaniel Pantaleo in the choking death of eric garner. Garner died after panaleo and other plains clothes Police Officers attempted to arrest him on the selling of a loose cigarettes on the street. Unlike ferguson, the protests in new york from peaceful and local. New yorkers have been following the garner case since his death in july, a week after a similar grand jury decision in missouri, and the violence sparked there, its clear that eric garner will signal something bigger to most americans. That yes, sir were devoting the show to the garner case. Mike viqueira joins us from washington where he heard that the attorney general is announcing an investigation into this death. Michael, what do you know . Reporter well, thats right, Al Jazeera America has confirmed that the department of justice will launch a civil rights investigation into the homicide of eric garner on the streets of eric garner. This will be an investigation of civil rights investigation to see whether or not these individuals had their civil rights violated by the officers, who ultimately killed them in trying to restrain them or trying to keep them back as the case may be. Now president obama spoke earlier today. It was a previously scheduled event, but it came just after the grand jury decision at Staten Island announced, very similar situation in timing, timing after the mike brown grand jury as well. The president said its his job as president to solve some of the issues, the underlying issues that these incidents have brought to the fore. He reminded everyone that just monday the Police Task Force to come up with solutions with the evident mistrust between Law Enforcement and the africanamericans communities around the country. Hes asking congress for more Police Training and for more body cameras. The president was speaking to the annual tribal conference at the department of interior. Heres a little bit more of what he had to say. Do we have that sound bite . We have president obamas comments that mike is looking for. We do not have it just yet. Reporter in any event the president said he has formed a task force on policing. He reminded everyone that Law Enforcement officers, and weve heard this before from the president , that theyre doing their job and we have to stand behind them, but there is no denying the fact that there are problems between Police Departments and communities around the country. Mike viqueira, youll be there for us. Were expecting to hear from the attorney general as well. Lets go to Staten Island reporter paul beban. Hes there in Staten Island where the police attempted to detain him there. Reporter there is a vigil going on. A gathering of mostly neighbors, community members. Not a big police presentation. They do not expect violence. Folks are chanting no justice, no peace, calling , but so far tempers remaining calm here. Emotions running high. A lot of people saying here that this is a part of the town part of new york where Everybody Knows everybody else. Where neighbors stay in touch. These are all familyowned businesses. Really a sense that this community will try to cool together, an andcome together and work through this together rather than venting rage or in any other way. Well go to Grand Central station and Rockefeller Center, and we have dante in harlem, where were expecting a press conference shortly, including eric garners parents. Lets go to roland martin. Hes with us via skype. A good friend of mine and our show. Roland , what have you been up to. Ive seen since this decision came out not to indict the Police Officer you got active on twitter. It appears that youre calling for protests tonight. Absolutely. Not necessarily calling for protests but knowing full well that that is going to happen. You have seen commentary recently with folks like oreilly on fox, and on nbc they did a highly critical of the protest taking place in ferguson all about mike brown. But ive been saying its the culmination of anger, frustration with this legal justice system. It was eric garner, John Crawford in ohio. In los angeles we have a police chief who refuse s to release autopsy report. We have Victor Wright iii in , and now you can add tamir rice in cleveland. People are saying enough is enough with this police system. Enough is enough with these sort of things happening. This goes beyond body cameras. This is what people dont understand. In the case of eric garner, we saw it. We had the video. The outset we saw him being choked to death. This deals with police procedure. Police culture. It deals with this excessive relationship between police, d. A. And the public. And were playing that video now for the audience to watch. Roland, can white police ever win in a violent confrontation with black men . Well, they can. The question is how in this case here you have four Police Officers, and all of a sudden they want to arrest him, and so then talk to somebody. Thats a why Community Policing is so important. Lee brown, the former Commission Center atlanta also in houston talked about Community Policing. Talk to people and get them to under. White cops can do it. I grew up in an all black neighborhood, and there were white cops patrolling our neighborhood. We had white cops in the community there. Its a mart of training. This is the most under talked about aspect. Talking about buildings, and talk about dont burn anything down. We talk about people shooting from the freeways. But we have a fundamental problems with the culture, and our society, ali, gives police far too much leeway to use lethal force against its citizens. Roland, stay right there. These are pictures coming in to us from times square. You can see the gathering from people who are there. This is not what is going on right now. This is a short time ago. We have a mix of live pictures coming in. You can see the crowds in times square. And there was a demonstration that involved people lying on the floor. This is union square in new york. People are carrying signs. Roland is talking about the part of the story that is very national. But this is new york. New york is different from ferguson, missouri, and very different from most places in the country in many ways. Joining me to talk about it and how people are reacting to the decision is pat kiernan. He has been covering new york city for more than 15 years. Youve been covering this. You have the interesting case of covering this eric garner story because this is in your backyard, as well as watching how things went down in ferguson. What are the similarities to you . The similarities is we have white Police Officers, and black men who are in confrontation with police. But there are different in many ways. The video is a different aspect and why people thought there would be an indictment. Whether there would be a conviction or not is another question. But the videotape told a different story, and thats why there is universal surprise. But universal surprise plays out differently in new york than in ferguson. Tell us what youre seeing in new york city and what youre thinking about, and what youre seeing. What youre see something a very diverse police force. Its not always the case of a white officer and black person being questioned. But new york deals with these things more often. It knows how to handle big crowds. I was going through union square and nypd injuries coming in a dozen at a time just on stand by. This is a busy night with the Rockefeller ChristmasTree Lighting and a lot of protesters walking towards Rockefeller Center. So far the nypd has just enough presence to keep this as a fairly peaceful protest. This is live now, pictures from times squares. It looks like a tape from a few moments ago, but this is live. People are moving through. Rolands were you tweeting that people should go to Rockefeller Center to the Tree Lighting ceremony. I tweeted that i knew this was going to happen. I said dont be surprised if the Tree Lighting ceremony turns into an protest. It was natural. You have this major event in new york city. People also all across the country, and i knew knowing full well that cameras were going to be there, and this kind of an event would really overshadow that kind of major event. I got this up on the screen, roland, you have 301,000 followers. The tweet reads the big new york Christmas Tree lighting is tonight. How much you wanna bet that it becomes a massive eric garner protest . And maybe suggestif youre suggesting it, this is america. You have a right to do that. No, im not. It was a natural thing to say, wait a minute. Huge Tree Lighting ceremony. Major event. Thats what its going to turn in to. Its no surprise to me at all. Its and no surprise to me that youre going to see protests breaking out across the country. What were looking at, you know, bill oreilly saying this will go away next week. No, this is different. Ali, people dont recognize this is a generation of people who have had to deal with stop and frisk, who have had to deal with this issue. These are people who were 12, 14, who are now 20, 25, who have had to deal with this. Theyre saying enough is enough. This is not going away any time soon. Lit me ask you this. Let me ask you this. You and i have talked about ferguson many times. And we are agreed there is something askew in ferguson, a place that is twothirds black with less than a handful of police on a tiny not particularly well Trained Police force, where there are endless bad relations between blacks in ferguson and the police force. I dont know what the numbers are, but new york knows about this stuff better. Does it turn out differently here . First of all, when you say how does it turn out . The question is what are we speaking of. First of all new York Police Department is not historically diverse. Its more diverse than ferguson, but theyve had serious issues over the years. This is important, the new York Police Department has had major policing issues. Sean bell, and i dont remember the Police Officers name, but the Police Officer who shot by other cops. This cops dad was a cop. He said wait a minute. I was a part of this thing for 03 years and my son is shot as well . New york has had its own issues when it comes toagain, ali, its Police Culture. Its how police are trained. Its what their thinking is, how they react, how they respond. This thing is so far removed than just ferguson. Its deeply entrenched. Im going to be talking to the Deputy Police chief in dallas, who happens to be the National Chair of the black police association. Were going to talk about Police Culture, and were going to talk about what a black man feels about Police Culture when hes a very big part of it. Well be back with more on the grand jury decision not to indict the polic Police Officer who killed eric garner. Well be right back. A dirty deal. Struck at the heart of government. Egypt mismanaged its gas industry. Taking the country to the brink of economic ruin. Its obvious that egypt was being ripped off. Its basically saying to the israelis, look if you want to screw us, heres a tool you can use to screw us. Al jazeera exposes those who made a fortune betraying an entire nation. You dont feel that you owe an explanation to the egyptian people . No. No. Al jazeera investigates. Egypts lost power. December 17th. Roland was talking about the fact that while new york is bigger, more sophisticated better trained and more diverse police force than were dealing with in ferguson, missouri, its not without its problems. Roland outlined a number of issues corresponding with the time youve been the key angellers of news in new york city. Hes right. New york police have had their ups and downs. And not to minimize it, but police work is a messy business. Sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they get it wrong. There are two questions, one is a specific case by case analysis, and you can debate the evidence. And the second is the broader question where there is not problems. We get carried away with the details of what Michael Brown was doing or eric garner. We agree, the situation is large. The situation is large. The question of whether black men trust police, or whether police react differently to blacks or hispanics is a larger question. In your sense has new yorkhow has new york dealt with these things . New york has dealt with them at times, and dealt with them terribly at other times. Its gotten better under bill de blasio and bill brattan. Theyve made an effort to stop this practice of stop and frisk, where young men predominantly of color are stopped on the street and asked to prove that theyre not carrying weapons. Theyve identified the issue. Theyve talked a lot about it. Does this change a situation like this. Everyone has seen the videotape, and its a powerful videotape. As you pointed out there were many people who expected that there would have been an indictment. This is not a picture of stop and frisk. Tell me about this. There are these stops. It is a police tool that ray kelly, the Previous Police commissioner was fond of because they felt it was a Crime Prevention tool. But when you look at the numbers, overwhelmingly the people stopped were not white. Thats when people said wait a minute, youre not stopping young white men. Youre stopping young black and latino men. When you look at the Crime Statistics were stopping people proportionate to the Crime Statistics. Grand jury announced that officer Daniel Pantaleo will not face charges in the death of eric garner. Talk about the Peaceful Protesters who are lying down tweeting out the hashta hashtag i cant breathe. Randall pinkston join us now from new york wi more on that. Youve heard pat saying there was some surprise. Tell us how this grand jury worked . Well, first of all in all all over the country grand juries can, first of all, not to indict Police Officers involved in the use of deadly force. On the other hand as has been famously said by the former chief judge of the new york court of appeals a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. So the conclusion that people are left with if the prosecute center Staten Island had wanted some kind of indictment or charge brought against officer panaleo or other officers, he could have presented the evidence for the grand jury to reach that conclusion. That did not happen. The implications is, not with stand on the part of people who dont trust the system is that the prosecutor did not want to indict the Police Officers. Each with his own prosecutor. In richmond county, Staten Island, where eric garner died during an arrest by new York Police Officers, Daniel Donovan spent three months presenting evidence. Some call it highly unusual in homicide cases especially where there is video evidence. If you or i were on videotape putting our arm around someones neck, and that person then said i cant breathe and we sat on them and they died, we would be indicted in 30 seconds, and the grand jury would take more than a day possibly two. The difference here says howell and some other legal experts is that the potential defendant, Daniel Pantaleo, was a Police Officer. He was the one who used a choke hold to subdue garner. How does it shift when a Police Officer is accused of killing as opposed to when a civilian is accused of killing. Ideally it doesnt. But prosecutors work with Police Officers in just about every case. They collaborate a lot. When they seek an indictment for applier they dont want that indictment. Reporter in effect says howell prosecutors use grand juries as a shield to give the public the impress that the grand jury is making the decision when, in fact, the prosecution leads the panel to the conclusion that the prosecutor wants. 99 of the time theyll get an indictment, maybe more. Its a process that they control entirely. There is no judge in the room. Reporter only the prosecutor and the grand jurors. Right. Typically they seek indictment where is they want indictments. Reporter when prosecutor donovan said that he would take the case to a grand jury. He was quoted as saying that i will go where the evidence takes me without fear or favor. They say that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. Reporter the evidence as presented holds no Police Officers accountable for eric garners death. In all prosecutors would say there is the law, the law in n state and all over the country gives Police Officers very broad discretion in the use of deadly force in the performance of their duty. Is there some senseyou just heard that the attorney general is going to launch a federal investigation into this. Is there some offset to this idea of grand juries which by the way most of society thinks that are impartial and hear evidence, but we have heard complaints from eric garners lawyer that his partner was given immunity to testify. Both he and his partner testified, and there is no testimony from the victims family. Reporter well, you know, the federal investigation is dealing with a different kind of issue with respect to whether there was a violation of eric garners civil rights. But with respect and alternative to grand jury, most states dont use grand juries any more. They use an adversarial process where there is a hearing before a judge with a prosecutor and with another side making the case to the judge whether the case should go forward. And keep in mind the grand jury is not deciding guilt or innocence. Its just deciding whether a jury should hear the case. And many states have moved away from grand juries to another process. Thank you so much. Randall, thank you for joining us from new york. Well go to roland. Someone is tweeting and me saying its a horrible idea to tweet something about Tree Lighting because little children will be there talking about Rockefeller Center. You tweeted back, so kids should not see the First Amendment in action . Oh please. Oh my goodness, 9 kids are going to be there . Eric garner has children. Eric garner was a grandfather. Please, what do you tell his children about tonights decision . Here is Something Else that i think is critically important that we got to realize. A District Attorney does not have to stop at one grand jury. And in north carolina, last year a man was seriously hurt. He knocked on several doors to get assistance. No one helped him. Someone called the cops. The cops arrived. He saw the cops, oh my goodness. He ran towards the cop. A young Police Officer freaks out. Holds the gun out and shoots Jonathan Ferrell dead. Now remember the police chief said this was not justified. He was arrested about. The d. A. A. Took it to the grand jury and the grand jury declined to indict. And there was a second grand jury, and he was indicted as seconddegree merchandise. In this case the d. A. Gave other officers immunity from prosecution. Why, why would you give other officers who were on the scene, who are part of this immunity from prosecution . That makes no sense. Hold that thought. Ive got pat kiernan with me. And i want to bring someone else in. David rudovsky is a civil rights lawyer and he joins us by phone from philadelphia. What do you mean by the inherent misconduct of trying to hold police responsible . [ can you hear me . I can hear you, very clearly. Can everybody else . Go ahead. So the conflict as they Work Together in Law Enforcement, and prosecutors dont like to indict and charge fellow Law Enforcement officials. That becomes a huge problem. As though the people have said in those kinds of situations if it was a civilian involved in this choke hold, if it was a civilian out in ferguson using that kind of force they would be arrested right away, they would be indicted. They might have a good self defense claim in trial. Where its a Police Officer it really is a double standard. So what is the solution to that . Obviously lawyers, prosecutors do have to work with police. We cant take that part of the equation apart. How do police get treated fairly. And on the other side of the coin, how if youre a policeman in america i would be worried about doing everything for fear everybody has their eyes on it with the idea that i might be doing something wrong. There is a much larger issue here. You could look at a particular case and argue one way or another if force was justified. But one question you have to ask about what went on here is this quality of life, zero tolerance policing in new york, which led them to kill somebody even if it wasnt criminal according to the grand jury for selling loose cigarettes. You going to back to basic training and policy in new york and other places to say is that the kind of policing we want when inevitably in this kind of situation it can lead to serious harm and death. Garners family said that its similar to the case in ferguson when the grand jury chose not to indict darren wilson. Officer pantaleos partner testified, but he had immunity at the time he did than. It says, its hard to believe that all the officers other than daniel were granted i am humanity as evidenced by the video there were several officers who impacted mr. Garner on the ground. These officers were granted immunity before any evidence was presented. Is it a regular habit to grant Police Immunity in a case like this . It is not. But on the other hand grand juries will often grand immunity. Im not saying that they did it correctly in this case, but they often do it in case where is they are trying to find someone who is highly culpable. There may be less culpable people who have information, think about if theyre investigating a corporation for corporate fraud, and they think some ceo is involved, they may grant immunity to lower, lesser officials in that corporation to get the cooperation of the kind of evidence that they need against the ceo. Nothing illegitimate about that kind of process. Why they granted the immunity to the Police Officers, and those officers would have had to testify unless they took the fifth amendment, is a little beyond me. On the other hand, if this grand jury was not going to indict the person who actually inflicted the choke hold, i dont think there was any way in this grand jury was going to indict in any other way. David rudovsky is a civil rights lawyer joining us. Well be back in just two minutes. On tech know, i landed head first at 120 mph a shocking new way to treat brain injuries transcranial direct stimulation. Dont try this at home. But some people are. Its not too much that weed fry any important brain parts. Before you flip the switch, get the facts. To say that passing a low level of current is automatically safe, is not true every saturday, go where Technology Meets humanity. Sharks like affection tech know, only on Al Jazeera America lets go to time square. Its a milling protest. It is not moving in the fashion that it was earlier. There are various center where people are assembling at. There is a natural gathering of people. Tonight is the famous Tree Lighting center there, and there were protests earlier. Were waiting for press conferences out of harlem. And near where eric garner died there are protesters there as well. Well keep an eye on it for you. The new york city Police Officer whose choke hold ended life of eric garner. Officer pantaleo said i became a Police Officer to help those who cant protect themselves. It was never my intention to harm anyone and i feel very bad about the death of mr. Garner. My family and i include him in our prayers. And i hope that they will accept my personal condolences for their loss. Pat kiernan joins me, a longtime morning anchor in new york. That statement from officer pantaleo was a thousand times further away from the ferguson officer darrell wilson, who was hard pressed to express any condolences in the death of Michael Brown. The Police Commissioner came out that they want to work on the Police Relationship with the community. Im not here to defend the nypd. But when we talk about a double standard for police. That exists for a reason. Theyre the police. The police have guns for a reason. The police are there to enforce the laws. We need to be careful in this discussion to understand that the police have to have the tools available to make decisions in a moment as notice. And this was not a shooting. This was meant to be a nonlethal way of subduing someone. Yes, and the questions today could that have been discussed at trial . Could this have gone to trial . A videotape showing that something bad happened there . This is what complicates things. Its not just the deaths of young men at the hands of police. Its whats going on in the system where they cant go to trial. Lots of evidence that is heard in grand juries. When you talk about open justice and transparency, and this happens hinds closed doors and in new york in particular all of the grand juries are behind closed doors. They say, we cant talk about this. Ive closed my investigation. But then that begs the question, 4500 pages, that seems like what you would have thought would be an entire case. This is where the problem is. Its not feeling like a jury. Its not feeling like a hearing. Lets go to roland for a second. This jumps out at me. Did that officer state, why did you use a tactic that has been against the Department Policy for a decade . The reality is you puthe was in a choke hold. And so im sorry this happened. I feel for his family. Look, i appreciate the statement. But he resorted to a tactic that for ten years had been outlawed in the department. Thats what he has to answer to. And so the department, shore, they have taken his badge. But what do you do . Do you fire the guy . This is what im talking about. We talk about police procedures. In Cleveland Tamir rice, the police pull up to the gazebo. I asked for him to put the gun down but it was 1. 5 seconds between the time they pulled up to taking the kid down. Youre right, they have split seconds decisions but tonight the officer is home with thinks family and eric garner is in the grave. Lets talk to a Police Officer in the aftermath of ferguson, missouri, has some Police Departments wanting to reach out to build trust. That is something that the new york police said. Before we talk to a Police Officer, lets listen to eric hold who are is now speaking. Involving eric garner, a Staten Island resident who died tragedy in july of this year. Since mr. Garners death, the United States attorney general in the Eastern District of new york, the civil rights decision and the federal bureau of investigation have been monitoring the local case closely while allowing the local investigation led by the District Attorneys office in Staten Island, to proceed first. Earlier today the grand jury declined to return an indictment in this case. Now that the local investigation has concluded im hear to announce that the Justice Department will proceed with a federal civil rights investigation into mr. Garners death. This afternoon i spoke with the widow of eric garner to inform her and her family of our decision to investigation potential federal civil rights violations. Ive also been in touch with president obama as well as mayor de blasio regarding our decision. Now prosecutors will conduct an independent, thorough, fair, and expeditious investigation. In addition to performing our own investigative work the department will conduct a complete review of the material gathered during the local investigation. Weve all seen the video of mr. Garners arrest. His death, of course, was a tragedy. All lives must be valued. All lives. Mr. Garners death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested 9 since of trust that must exist between Law Enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. This is not a new york issue. Nor a ferguson issue alone. Those who have protected peacefully across our great country following the grand jury decision in ferguson has made that very clear. As brother of a retired Police Officer i know in a very personal away about the bravery of the men and women who put their lives at risk every day to protect public safety. The vast majority of our Law Enforcement officers perform their duties honorbly and are committed to respecting our fellow citizens civil rights as they carry out their challenging work. It is for their sake as well as that we must seek to heal the breakdown in trust that we have seen. Early this week i traveled to atlanta to begin a series of interactions to begin this process. Officials around the country and every level of the United States of justice will continue this vital ongoing work. As the Justice Departments independent investigation into the deaths of Michael Brown and eric garner proceed, i will continue these converse as we seek to restore trust to, r rebuild understanding and foster cooperation between Law Enforcement and the communities they serve. Now i know that substantial numbers of people in new york and across the country will be disappointed and will be frustrated by the outcome of the state grand jury proceedings today. I know many will plan to voice their disappointment publicly through protests. This is the right. This is the right of all americans. But as i have said before throughout our history the most successful movements have been those that adhere to the principles of nonviolence. I urge all those in clined to demonstrate tonight and in the days ahead to remain peaceful in their demonstration. Eric holder, were going to monitor the rest of the conversation, but the big news is out that theyre going to investigate whether or not eric garners civil rights were effected by the events of his death. Lets go to the National Chair of the National BlackPolice Station from dallas. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Youre hearing from police who feel that theyre under attack by everybody for whatever they do. Youre hearing from africanamericans who think that the police are attacking them. And you are the chair of the black police association. Tell me what your thoughts are right now. Yes, and im also a Police Officer with Law Enforcement experience of 26 years. My thoughts on that are exactly what the rest of the United States was looking at. It appeared that some how that was reckless behavior that should have warranted some type of indictment to go to trial. And i havent spoken with any Police Officer that didnt Say Something was wrong with that type of arrest based upon the video. Thats white and black. I have not talked to them. Its a very tough job for us. By and large 800,000 Law Enforcement officers go and put their lives on the line every day, and we do a great job at it for the most part. Then we make mistakes. Were human. We make mistakes. Reckless behavior and were still culpable about hour behavior. That is the difference. Were culpable, were professional and sometimes we try to do it right and sometimes we get it wrong. The history of Law Enforcement illustrates that sometimes weve got it wrong, in the 60s, 70s, 80s, up to now that sometimes we have gotten it wrong and we need to get it right. Are we getting it more right now than when you first started when it comes to policing people, white police and black men . Well, i think we got it wrong for many years. And a lot of Police Departments across the nation for most of my career because some Police Departments under guidance of some Police Chiefs they were faking Community Policing. They were not in to Community Policing. It was just the great word of the day to say. They were not trying to break down the barriers of the community. They were actually saying the key words that city managers and mayors and citizens want to hear. But their actions dictated Something Else. And now when police in the scope were in the scope everybody is looking at us now. Now we have to actually get up and rise to the occasion and do the things that we say were going to do and Building Police and community relations. I will find it ironic that groups like mind founded in st. Louis in 1972, you know when the president said this time it will be different. I find it ironic that the National Black association or any Latino Police association was at the table. If were going to get it right, then we need to be at the table to break down these barriers and embrace the community in real engagement. Weve been saying this since 1972. Nobody heard us. Weve been talking about police brutality. Nobody heard us. While were at the table to embrace this, engage in, and put our careers on the line when people look at us in gang when we speak out against these very issues, our own brothers and our own sisters in blue who may not be our color sometimes many of them look at us and say what are we doing . Thats what theyre saying. As we look at protest signs. The names are familiar because these are cases that have risen in the spotlight but sometimes we get distracted from the bigger issue of looking at the evidence of these specific cases and that pre prevents us from moving ahead. What would improve this . What is the solution . I want to bring roland back in to this. Chief, hold on for just a second. What the chief is Say Something meaningful. This is a man who face it is on both sides. What do you have to say to him . Youve made strong arguments about policing and africanamericans and minorities now youre looking at a guy who is a policeman, senior policeman in a very, very big, important city. Yes. From your home state. First of all, i still have a home in the dallas area. Im very much aware of various black Law Enforcement officials. Ive spoken to conferences to black Law Enforcement officials and was just on a panel in atlanta just a few weeks ago with their national president. Were certainly not new to this particular issue. I think first and foremost there is no doubt that there is far mor more diversified police department, but the command. You just had a situation in new york where the number two officer there, africanamerican, highest ranked resigned because of the friction with brattan. You hear people talking about body cameras. You have to have that but youve got to have cities put a much different level of training in place and put the resources behind it. You also have tolook, a path that made a great point. Your league experts, you cannot be in a situation where you have District Attorney who are dependent upon Police Officers and their unions endorsing their reelection bids responsible for prosecutor cops. You have to have special prosecutors doing that because the public cant trust this system. In 23 years it has never successfully indicted a Police Officer in any shooting. We see the exact same thing happen all over the country. These are the kinds of structural things that have to take place, and in new york one of the first things theyve got to outlaw the choke hold because had that law been in place, what the officer had done was brain the law not Department Policy. Chief, stay where you are. Pat, stay with me. When we come back well continue this conversation but i want to talk about whether there is something unusual about staten Staten Island that allowed this to take place. Well talk about that when we come back. You know how they say that everybody has a purpose in life . Well, at one time i felt that selling cocaine was my purpose. We were starving just looking for a way to succeed. The first time that i seen rock cocaine was 1980. The murder rate was skyhigh. South of the ten freeway was kind of a nomans land. He said, ya know, were selling it to the blacks, you go into these neighborhoods, theres no cops, you can sell to who every you want and when they start killing each other no body cares. I was going through like a Million Dollars worth of drugs just about every day. Thats like gold we can make a fortune. He was maybe the biggest guy in la. Freeway rick was getting his dope from a very big operator. I think were into something thats bigger than us, something we really cant deal with. They had been trafficking on behalf of the United States government. She could prove what she was saying. Crack in the system generally Staten Islanders are more conservative than the rest of the city. And it has the lowest number of africanamerican citizens of any borough in the city. Only 11 of the boroughs are africanamerican compared to the city as a whole which is to say that the average Staten Islander is generally wealthier, more republican, and more likely to be white than the residents of the new york city. Now lets talk about a littl how this came to be. In july, eric garner died on Staten Island. Heres a look at what happened. Garner is detained for allegedly selling individual cigarettes, or looseys on a Staten Island street. A cell phone video shows him saying, i cant breathe. I cant breathe. Watch this. Put your hand behind you. Pat joins me now. You were covering this. You cover everything that goes on in new york city. In your mind one has to make a distinction between the myriad of crimes and Police Arrests and things that happen in new york city, and those that are really Something Different and big and tell me about how this timeline worked out for you . This one rose to the top because that have videotape. Because everyone could look at that and analyze whether they thought that the officers were justified in the way they responded to that, and you can see that the great thing about this, its not just a tensecond clip. This was the entire interaction caught on tape. But that particular neighborhood of Staten Island is close to the ferry. Its close to access to new york city, and there are a lot of africanamericans in that community. So though the rest of the island is very suburban, this is an area where there are apartments and that area has some of the same crime problems that other areas in new york. I dont know if we should go too far to maker tha make that distinction, but that is audients lens than had this happened in brooklyn or the bronx. Chief aziz, you said that the idea that there is this video, and you can see what happened, when you looked at that, what did you think the outcome was going to be . Did you think we would end up having this conversation today about having no indictment . No, i thought for sure that there would be an indictment that was surely a recklessagain, i havent spoken with any officer, white or black, who thought it wasnt. And in the context of officers all over the nation who i speak with almost daily. Now the video spoke for itself. It was very clear. What i looked at was when i first saw the video, i thought about reasonable alternatives. I thought about other means of less than lethal force who wants to put their hand on a person if they dont have a to. Were lacking in verbal discourse to talk people down like many of us do in our neighborhoods every day where we exercise patience. I saw so much there that wasnt there that there was no way in the world that today that i was shocked when i turned it on the News National news and saw that come out in no way would i thought that he wouldnt be indicted for jury to hear whether that action was reckless with what the rest of the world saw. I dont think that you should ask for Something Different. I dont share any idea from the others. I dont think they should joy law it because i think in the end if youre fighting for life or death it should be used. Could you just let him go and deal with it later . Yes, you could have. You could have let him go and deal with it later. You could have used a taser. You could have talked him down. There was enough of him to grab his arms and use defensive tactics pressure points and do other things. There were a number of options that they could have done. The number one thing that they didnt do that somebody should have done there, was tack on his arm and say, let him go. Get your arm from around his throat. Thats what some officers on the scene did not do. Ive commanded officers for 23 years. Ive commanded in executive position for going on nine. I always tell my guys its your obligation when you see someone get caught up in their emotions and they start doing something, to stop them. If youre truly your brother, you believe in his career and his life, and you believe in the citizens in which youre serving serving, kindly remove him from the situation. That is where were obligated to do as Law Enforcement professionals. Roland, what is the message that you have . His supervisor was on the scene. This is stunning. Heres the other thing remember he was accused of selling citize cigarettes. No evidence was presented that he did. Youre arrested for what . I think for all the people who are tweeting, who are saying, you know, you shouldnt be protesting. Go read the u. S. Constitution. The reality is youre not going to see any substantive change to the Police Culture unless the people rise up, unless people take to the streets. Unless they go to the City Council Meetings and county commissioner meetings and unless we apply the pressure but you know what, roland, how many years are you and i having this conversation . Thats ultimately the best solution to all of this. Greater civic involvement, the idea that we bridge this gap between minorities in this country on both sides. Its happening, and one of the reasons its happening because this generation is saying enough is enough. Theyre planning , mobilizing, organizing. These moments must turn to movements. Were seeing this dont shoot, hands up, dont shoot moment turn to a movement, and i think youre going to see more pressure being put in place by politicians. The people are saying black, white, hispanic, asian, enough is enough. Every life does matter. Weve got less than a minute left. What happens in new york now . Im impressed with new york city so far. Weve seen reasonbly peaceful protests. Theyre not burning the city down. That means that were looking for a solution. Were not trying to see trouble. Youre not seeing a protest. You see people at the bottom of the screen, there are gatherings of people. They might be blocking the street as far as i can tell, but they seem to be operating well, and the police seem to be operating well in new york in reaction to this. I walked over there. There were streets blocked. There were deserted streets because cars were not getting through, but the protest has been peaceful so far. Thanks to pat, malik aziz, and , and rowland. Thanks. Our coverage continues on Al Jazeera America. Clashes clashes in the chechen capital as the president prepares to give his annual address. Im jane dutton. Other stories making their way on the news in al jazeera, grand jury fails to charge a Police Officer in the choke hold death of a black man. Kurdish fighters killing i. S. I. L