Hello i am ray suarez. In years as a street reporter i spent a lot of time with police. At crime scenes, perp walks, some officers seem to have a knack for avoiding escalation, while some other officers had a tendency to make their authority paramount. More than the maintenance of order or the pursuit of suspects. The unwillingness of a grand jury in new york to indict a Police Officer after a homicide provides a revealing reference point. A minor infraction was suspected, a man who did not want to be arrested, but was not responding with violent resistence. In a matter of seconds, eric garner was on the floor, his head pressed to the pavement, four officers swarming his prone body. Was officer Daniel Pantaleo really given no other choice but to respond to garner as he did . Would another valid response have ended with garner not dieing and the law still enforced on Staten Island . All lives must be valued. All lives. Mr. Garners death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between Law Enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. Attorney general eric holder announced wednesday the department of justice will launch a civil rights investigation in to the death of eric garner. That comes after a new york grand jury looked at the cell phone video and decided not to bring charges against one plain clothed Police Officer involved in garners death. I cant breathe, the final words uttered by the Staten Island man before appearing to die at the hands of Police Officers. I cant breathe. Garner had resisted arrest when Law Enforcement confronted him on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes. When the situation escalated, one officer appears to hold garner firmly around the neck while others press down and restrain him. New york citys medical examiner ruled garners death a homicide resulting from the choke hold. And compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police. The Police Officer dan pantaleo says he never intended to hurt garner, and did not think his actions would kill him. On wednesday, a grand jury determined there was not enough evidence to go to trial. To kill that man over here over a loose cigarette which costs 50 cents to choke him. To have him saying that i cant breathe. You have video and you have audio and you cant get a conviction. What else you need . New york citys mayor bill de blasio asked his citizens to remain calm and referenced the wishes of eric garners father. Even in the midst of his pain one of the things he stopped, said so squarely was there can be violence. He said eric would not have wanted violence. Violence wont get us anywhere. More than a thousand, mostly peaceful protesters, descended on the streets of manhattan in anger, clogging Grand Central train station, shutting down main arteries of traffic. Hes a murderer. A coldblooded murderer. We didnt say it, the coroner said it. Coldblooded murderer. Thats it homicide its a homicide garners death has again brought to light the historic tensions between the African American community and local police around the u. S. President obama touched on the distrust and injustice felt by many African Americans and says there needs to be change. We are not going to let up until we see a strengthening of the trust and a strengthening of the accountability that exists between your communities and our Law Enforcement. It is incumbent by all of us as americans, regardless of race, region, faith, that we recognize this is an american problem and not just a black problem or a brown problem or a native american problem, this is an american problem. Cleveland, ohio is another city where protesters have taken to the streets in cent weeks. 12yearold tamir rice began dished a toy gun in a park and was shot dead by an officer respond to go the scene. Attorney general eric holder was in cleveland today to talk about a Justice Department investigation in to 600 use of force incidents between 2010 and 2013 in cleveland. We have determined that there is reasonable cause to believe that the Cleveland Division of Public Police engages in a pattern and practice of using excessive force. The report found that long before the shooting of tamir rice, officers in cleveland were poorly train odd how to control people during arrests. And some officers didnt know how to handle their firearms safely. The city will work with the Justice Department to appoint a courtordered monitor to overseer reform efforts. What the police do, the rules that governor what they do, and whether as the president suggested after Darren Wilson was cleared in missouri, minority communities are not making it up when they complain about their treatment at the hands of the police. All this time on the program. Is an encounter on the street with an unarmed man a failure and some in sense not in keeping with best practices if a civilian end up dead. Is there reliable accountability for the police. Joining for us that conversation, martin pride, former chicago Police Officer and author of the book crooked city. Michael toe bin executive director of the direct of Columbia Office of Police Complaints. And Margaret Burnham professor of law and certificates in civil litigation in Police Misconduct cases she teaches at. [ inaudible ] university. Selling loose cigarettes is an infraction, it is against the lawing, but a fairly lowlevel offense. Whats the best set of practices when you are confronting somebody . Which what does a policeman learn after working street after a while so that it doesnt get out of hand . Well, ray, i have to be perfectly honest and i just heard your introduction and i have never heard anything so biased and antipolice. Its one of the worst i have heard in the whole introduction the whole discussion of these three cases. But it doesnt matter once a guy is under arrest whether its a petty crime or a felony crime. The arrest procedures are the same thing. And i looked at the video several times of the new york arrest and i would agree with the grand jury, i dont see that the Police Officers did anything wrong. I think they went out of their way to give this person the opportunity to surrender. He was under arrest. And i dont agree either that you said he wasnt that he was complying. He was not. He was resisting. And so i cant see that they did anything wrong. And i think the grand jury made the right decision. I just think that, you know, that there is a minority of people in the country who stir up these who look at these cases and try to stir up this antipolice hysteria over these cases. And i think this new york one say perfect example. It was a legitimate arrest. I think if the guy if the officer who did at rest knew that he was had asthma and had all these Health Problems maybe he wouldnt have gone about it the way he did. But he didnt know that. Hes a very large man. He doesnt know who he is. He doesnt know what kind of violence hes capable of. And hes been informed hes under arrest and the police have to take appropriate action to put him under arrest without injuring themselves. Well, its true he was much larger than the men involved, but he was the only unarmed person surrounded by four armed ones. Can you make what do you mean by that . What do you mean by that . Are you saying that did the police full out their guns and point them at him . No. But you suggested that the police had no way of knowing what threat he could pose to them. And i am just positing that maybe four armed men standing with an unarmed man may be able to assume that in that confrontation they would have the upper hand. Is that not the case . Well, then why did he resist . Why did he resist . If he felt that way why did he resist . Clearly he felt that he had some clearly e that he had some something there was clearly something going on that he felt that he could not comply with the Police Officers orders and he didnt. So when you dont comply with the orders, you are trained as a Police Officer to take it to the next level. Everything the Police Officers did there was by the book academy training. Legal use the force. I really would like to know what is the objection here . They didnt know he had they didnt know he had asthma. And he had these Health Problems. Are the police supposed to conduct a medical evaluation before they arrest somebody twice their size . They didnt have a right to pull out their gun at this point and they didnt. Okay. Let me talk to Michael Tobin at this point. Officer preib said something interesting, there is no difference between coming up to someone and questioning them about a major crime or a minor one. There is no doctrine of what you might call proportionality when it comes to these kinds of stops and these kind of encounters. Is that the case . Is that where some of the trouble in a case like this one comes from . I think that gets to part of the issue is the disconnect between the communitys understanding of an incidents like that. And the officers understanding. The Police Officer in that instance is trained for officer safety regardless of the instance. And i would agree with him that Police Officers are trained regardless of the type of incident they are going to be most concerned with officer safety and they dont know the other factors going on. But the communitys perception of that is that minor offenses should be dealt with differently. In that instant and i am not making a judge opt that case, but in that instance. One officer in that group decided to apply a choke hold what needed to be determined and what still may not be determined is that within the training of the new York City Police deem. It was within their policies and training to use it at that point. You notice from the video that only one officer determined that it was nesta time. Its hard to Department Nationwide because there are no National Standards, when you look at local statistics. There is daze proportionality amount of force being used by young officers. My high pot tigs on that and always has been experienced officers how t officers learn how to talk to people. Before rising on the lefts of use of force that may have been used there. Professor, right at the outset Michael Tobin said there is a disconnect between what the public sees and feels around these incidents and what the police perceive at the time. Is that really the root of the kind of cases that you have dealt with when you have litigated Police Misconduct . I think it should be set at the outset the rule governing the conduct of this particular Police Officer is quite clear. New york has very, very good regulations governing the use of force and this Police Officer should well have been trained in them. They say quite clearly choke holds are impermissible. That might not be the federal law. It might not be the new york stay law. But it is the law governing this particular Police Officer so he stepped outside of his Legal Authority when he determined that he would use a choke hold to effectuate an arrest on a man selling stole significan cigarettes. And the proportionality rule that you mentioned, ray, is also quite clearly laid out in the new york proceedings. There is nothing wrong with the regulations that new york has developed to governor the use of force. Police officers are professionals, and one of the most problematic encounters that a Police Officer makes is at the point of arrest. And in the calculation of how much force is appropriate and proper and pro forc proportionae crime being alleged against the defendant. This case is crystal clear. And also the problem here is not just what happened on the street. People are protesting because the Police Officer got an opportunity, he got out he got a get out of jail free card when he was allowed to tell his story before a grand jury just as the Police Officer was in ferguson. And to basically vindicate himself. Prosecutor dont take case dont take cases to the grant grandeurs. I let knee jump in there. I have to take a break, when we come back i want to talk to you about just that procedure and how it happens. Not nationwide, of course, there is no rule its a jurisdiction by jurisdiction question, but the use of the grand jury in cases like these. When we come back, not only the procedure but the role that race plays in the intensity of policing in mine or at this communities and the tendency of police to use deadly force, force often ruled later upon inspection to be justifiable. Stay with us. You are watching inside story on Al Jazerra America. I am ray suarez. Just best break you heard professor market e margaret burg unthe use of grand juries in deciding not to bring indictment in cases that riveted the nations attention in recent weeks, michael to be i believe, why grand juries . Why are they used in cases like these . Thats part of the issue one of the reasons we go to grand juries in some places we do not have an adequate system of civilian, local civilian review of these types of incidents. Such as in ferguson there was no local civilian review board to review it to answer back to the community to work as a good post or position in between the community and the Police Department and the local government. In other crimes couldnt prosecutors look at the same evidence the grand jury does and idecide whether or not there is sufficient ground to sustain a trial . Well, they certainly can. And the local prosecutors, thats one of the issues is should we should it be in the purview of the local prosecutors or in the purview of the u. S. Attorneys office. The local prosecutors typically have connections with the local Police Departments, they work on it on a regular basis. Local prosecute nurse a lot of places are considered Law Enforcement and considered a version of the Law Enforcement offers. They have a close working relationship. Whereas the u. S. Attorneys office is more separate from that. But a grand jury process, one thing that is not publicized well is many locale at thises have a local grant jury process inish to a federal grand jury review process and what we are seeing now lately in these incidents being publicized primarily because of media emphasis and renewed emphasis on media and everything being televised whether it was not before, we did not have videos of these incidents before. So these incidents have been happening, but they have not had a spotlight on them until very yes represently because of everything that is being filmed now and now they are on tv. But getting back to your question on that issue, thats one of the primary considerations is grand jury should we look at a local grand jury process, federal grand jury process and should we look at National Standards for those types of incidents. Martin is it hard to prosecute a policeman . No. Is there a difference in the trial when there i there is a prosecution and defense team versus the fairly closed system of a grandeurs any. There is a lot of bandying about the grand jury process was biased in both of these cases. I think the prosecutors in both in new york and the ferguson case knew that there was no basis for criminal charge against the Police Officer so they tossed it to the grand jury to prove that. And so what happens with these antipolice activists in so many of these cases especially ones supported by a guy like al sharpton, is if the courts rule the way they want, then the courts are legitimate. If the courts dont rule the way they want, then the courts are not legitimate. In the ferguson trial they did a painstakingly review, they looked at the witnesses, the witnesses confirmed much of what the officer said. They proved that many of the socalled witnesses and other people at the crime scene were lying. And they decided that there was no basis for criminal charges against the officer. And so the press has stepped in and generated this endless themes about racism and Police Corruption and whatnot. Even though there is no evidence of that in the ferguson case. And this poor officer who almost had his life taken from him by what the evidence shows by somebody who tried to take his gun from him, has not only had to endure the terror of that event, and then the ho horror of having to shoot somebody in selfdefense, but now he has to deal with this unrelenting media hysteria that following the case that are trying to draw these grandiose themes about it that just simply dont exist. Professor burnham, by using a grand jury, instead of the trial system, what do you accomplish . It sounds like nobody is happy at the end of the day. People who want these officers charged doubt the validity of the system. People who dont want them charged say that it leaves them under a cloud. What use is the grand jury . The prosecutor really has to has to step up and act like a professional Law Enforcement person here. The prosecutor cant throw a case to the grand jury because hes afraid he doesnt want to take the heat of letting the person go. If the person should be let go. I think thats what the last the thats what was just said that the prosecutors here put these cases in the grand jury knowing full well or thinking full well that they dont have the evidence to get a grand jury to return an indictment. And so they leave it to the grandeurs toy do their dirty work for them. But in this case i think the release of all of the documents the evidence before the grand jury any ferguson tells the lie to the use of this procedure as a legitimate means of airing evidence and reaching a reasoned conclusion about it, rather it shows that the prosecutor put his hand on the scale of justice and leaned heavily on it and allowed the defense basically to, as i say, to vicinity indicate himself and to vindicate himself and not ever have to face a trial jury. Where he would have been questioned more aggressively. Well be back after a short break with more inside story. When we return, a look at whether Current Police approaches and tactics really fit todays community. A much tougher line in the 80s and 90s was a response to rapidly violent crime. With crime rates tumbling fashion wide are we using 20th century tactics to respond to 21st century realities . Stay with us. Im ali velshi, the news has become this thing where you talk to experts about people, and al jazeera has really tried to talk to people, about their stories. We are not meant to be your first choice for entertainment. We are ment to be your first choice for the news. Welcome back to inside story inside story inside story on Al Jazerra America i am ray suarez. Training, police work and daytoday life in American Communities this time on the program. What constitutes failure or success in encounters between police and the public. Do we expect too much from the Police Officers when they react just like anybody else to provocation or orin so lens rather than reacting with more restrain. With us no longer with us martin former Police Officer from chicago and author of the book crooked city who decided that he could not longer take the incident questioning and simply got up and walked away. Michael toe bin executive director of the direct of Columbia Officer of Police Complaints and Margaret Burnham professor of law and expert in civil litigation in Police Misconduct cases from northeastern university. Michael toe bin toe bin i hope you dont get up and walk out on me will you stick with me the rest of the way . I certainly will. In case after case officers who are accused of misconduct, when they tell their story, respond just like any other person would responds, for the someone given extensive training in handling these situations and in handling lethal force. Can we train our way out of this in both attitudes and in the way that give police the ballast to react in a different way when things get different. Short answer no, long answer traitraining is a big part of i. We have to look at the complexity of training and the recruiting and what kind of people are hiring to be Police Officers and w we have to look t the training and the procedures that the department set out and how they do the training. And what the Community Wants to see in use of force actions. One thing you see and we have seen this time and again, and in multiple incidents that we have talked about today. Each parts of the country has different rules, different rules on use of force and different types of training. They are all very similar. But have subtle differences in some places a choke hold isnt allowed. In nba some places it is allowed if its trained properly. There is not a uniform standard thats put out. Professor burnham, a lot of this comes down to attitude when officer after officer describes being under threat from people who rant everybody armed. Is there a racial component here and can we train our way out of that and have that respond to the fact that crime is much lower in the United States than it was when we formed a lot of these ideas . Well, yes, ray, there is no way to take race out of this equation, but Police Officers are just like everybody else, they are our neighbors, they are our uncles, aunt, cousins, you know, they dont come from mars, they come from our neighborhoods, and so, of course, they are going to reflect the biases of our neighborhoods just as much as they reflect the goodwill and the neighborliness that as we americans pride ourselves on. So in part its a training problem. But its also a policy problem at a level i dont understand the street Police Officer. The war on crime produced an invasion in African American communities. And that wasnt that was directed from on high and not from the street, but that led to the distrust and the anxiety and the tension between Police Officers. And its led to mass incarceration and the broken window theory as well. Professor burnham, thanks a lot for being with us. That brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. Thanks for being with us. Michael tobin as well. In washington i am ray suarez. Hello, and welcome to the news hour. Syrian refugees are top priority. Kenyas secret hit squads Undercover Police admit to killing radical muslims without trial, and al jazeera exclusive. Plus protests i