Transcripts For ALJAZAM America Tonight 20131106

To each other. The candidates and political analysts see the race based on washington politics and the government shutdown. And a bill passing samesex marriage. Illinois governor pat quinn is expected to sign the bill. If so the bill will go into effect june 2014. America tonight is up next. Well see you back here for election updates throughout the evening and for a full hour at 11 00 eastern. On america tonight is it bad medicine . One of the largest Healthcare Fraud settlements in history, and why some prescriptions may threaten our health. It is unacceptable. Reporter also tonight extraordinary vision hidden from view. His Creative Genius is finding it. I realize that there was something here that i didnt know about, and neither did anybody else. And it was just lurking out there in the woods. Reporter and a hard line on the border. A decision that grants government agents lethal force against protesters armed with rocks. Good evening, and thanks for being with us. Im joie chen. One of the best names in the treatment of dementia patients sits in a bigger debate, pharmaceutical companies, prescriptions and how doctors choose the medication they provide. Johnson and johnson m settled about the government from 2002 to 2003 there was an offlabor use of the drug not approved by the fda. It has been since approved for dementia and young patients as well. And it has been an enormously successful product. It had 24. 2 billion from 2002 to 2010, but it was the offlabel period that raised alarm. The marketing effort including compensation to doctors amounted to Reckless Endangerment of patients young and old. The kick packs undermines adjustment of healthcare providers. It provides incentive to increase the use of drugs potentially putting the health of some patients at risk. The Companies Put down the risk of risperdol. Put simply the alleged conduct is shameful and it is unacceptable. It displayed a reckless indifference to the safety of the american people, and it instituted a clear abuse of the public trust. Joining us in the studio, Patrick Burns in taxpayers against fraud. This originated with a whistle blower, as it were, who brought it to the governments attention. But didnt quite get the governments attention. Why was it a problem, and what does this tell us . Well, wrestle blowers come to the government for examples of fraud, and the government often doesnt quite understand the fraud. Fraud is like a magic act. If it was that obvious everyone would see it, and no one would profit. So the government looks at it. They dont quite understand it. Then they start lawyering it. What happened in this particular case was the whistle blower realized essentially what was going on here was p a, yola was being paid, this was poisoning for profit. He was very upset about it. He went ultimately to the new york times. He lost his job. Then he went to texas. In texas it went before the jury. The jury started to read all of the emails inside the company, and before that case went to jury for consideration the company settled for a very large sum of money. In the end this whistle blower was compensated for coming forward. Yeah, he had spent the winter without heat, after he had been terrified, after he had lost his job. When whistle blowers go into this, when lawyers go into this they have no idea if theyre going to be successful or not. The bottom line is that they pay a huge price as the patients do. Lets go back to the specific case. In this particular case, this isyour organization is a taxpayer organization. How can you relit these two things . Is this really a stockholder issue rather than the taxpayer issue. The stockholders of Johnson Johnson, shouldnt they be upset. If the fraud is not caught the people who foot the bill is the taxpayer. If the fraud is caught, the people who ar who foot the bille fine is Johnson Johnson in this case. The people inside Johnson Johnson, designed, they got promoted. In this particular case in the settlement payment there is are a lot of them, but at no point does it identify any particular individual who is responsible for this. This is a penalty that Johnson Johnson overall paid 2. 2 billion in settlement money but not a particular individual was named as being complicit. Yes, well the government settled. Its not a strong endorsement of a good deal. The government didnt take this to trial. Johnson johnson didnt take it to trial. The bottom line was this fraud was not a mystery. It was designed and operationalized within Johnson Johnson. They were paying kickbacks. That means they were paying cash, payola. They had a whole system to off label market this drug. They were paying the chief pharmacist in pennsylvania, of texas, in order to get them to approve this drug for off label and illegal purpose. This was a cash and carry. This was a gamble, and it was organized and operationalized within johnson the parent company. And the people who did that were promoted all the way to the top. There were a number of other pharmaceutical companies with offlabel use of their antipsychotic drugs, Going Forward what happens . Are they greater concerns . There are greater concerns. First of all, there is patient harm here, patient risk here. The basic gambit of the pharmaceutical industry is that they dont have anything too new to sell. In this case you had risperdol, you either try to grow the pie, which is off label marketing, or you try to get a bigger slice of the pie by paying kickbacks to doctors. Or if youre Johnson Johnson, you do both. Thank you very much. Were going to bring on board dr. Gregory smith, a former anesthesiologist and president of the comprehensive pain relief group. You have produced a documentary because you have concerns. Your documentary is american addict and it raises the question of how pharmaceutical Companies Market to doctors. If we could take a look at some of your documentary. Pharmaceutical representatives are universally attractive. They get recruited from cheerleading squads at big ten schools. This is an antipsychotic medication, its very popular, its very expensive. These others are diverted the reason being the medical programs pay a lot of money for these drugs. What was once a diagnostic manual that was paper then is now a huge book with hundreds of diagnoses in them. Its the lawyers fault. We invented corporations. It doesnt have a conscience, you cant put it in jail. That is a seg edge of your american addict documentary, and going to the idea of using fashion models to lure doctors into using medications. That might be surprising to a lot of patients. Right, hit will me first say when we started making this documentary i was trying to answer the simple question or fact that were possibly 5 of the worlds population but we utilize 80 of the worlds hydrocodone, in many cases vicodin and 50 of the worlds prescription drugs in general. Its like how is this possible . This is definitely not a begins dense. Wercoincidence. Were only one of two companies that allow direct marketing to patients on media. Were a society with a bill for a problem. If you go to a physician, and if you cant sleep you get a pill. If you feel sad, you get a pill. If you have anxiety, you get a pill. Were not treating the underlying cause, which is why there is abuse of pharmaceuticals right now. The fda says you can use this medication for this purpose. That would be the labeled use. Some of these companies have marketed them to physicians and said, look, this has been effective in other areas, is that about right . Yeah, i mean, off labeling has been done for a long period of time. And i dont think its always necessarily a bad thing. When its abused its a bad thing. At often it is abuse. These fines are nothing new. These are the largest ever, but its still not big enough to prevent these Big Pharmaceutical Companies from doing this fraud. When you look at it, 2. 2 billion sounds like a lot of money to the average person. And it is. But as you showed earlier in your promo they made over 24 opinionated for just one of the three drugs they got in trouble for today. Off label something extremely common, but its not always a bad thing. But in this case or in the case where theyre pushing the drug to make money it is a very bad thing. On that point people in your practice, you have used somE Pharmaceuticals off label, as it were . Absolutely. I do chronic pain and addiction medicine, and very often in private pain its not the same as regular or acute pain, we use different medications, off label, a lot as i do with Nutritional Supplements and things of thattor. Thats very different from what is going on here. We have Big Pharmaceutical Companies perpetuating the use to expand the marketplace of a medication that it fda approved for a different reason. Thats a big problem. As a physician did you feel like you are approached on what seemed to be a hard sell or th E Pharmaceuticals part . There were people who just got money and gifts to do things. Now its a lot different. You get lunches and pens and things like that, but most of the time the reps are trained very hard not to talk about off label uses. The trick is youll get others in meetings an, to talk about te medications but reps themselves, dont do it. Dr. Greg which smiths film is the american addict. Coming up here, a rift in the ranks. When hazing how could this happen in the nfl among adults that we glorify every weekend. But i was at the stadium today. I did talk to troy drayton earlier, and he said the nfl will move forward from this, and he referred to this situation as a tough situation. But he said his team will move forward from this. Even so this entire situation hurts for everyone, the fans, the players and the entire dolphin family. I think that its an unfortunate incident. The locker room is a place when you retire its the place you miss the most, its an unfortunate incident of what is happening here. I think out of all the bad there is going to be something bad that comes out of it. Its unfortunate that, you know, you have this situation happen and you have people hurting. You have a teen hurting. Jonathan martin is hurting. And then you have the coach who is hurting. But at some point in time, you know, bullying has no place in anything. I think theres going to be something good that comes out of it. And i think for the nfl, they have a lot of smart people. This organization has a lot of smart people. And i think the coach is a smart man. I think its a hurdle you have to get over. I think its an isolated incident. Because there was a racial under tone to it. But in this situation its tough. Its a tough, tough thing. When you look at it, these two guys played next to each other. Its tough to imagine that somebody that you were relying on is actually hurting you in some way, shape, or form. That to me is one of those things that is unimaginable. Its a tough thing. Its a tough thing for the dolphins. Its a tough thing for the nfl. But like i said, well get through it. I cant believe its happening in the informal, these are adults. I think you have to move cautiously. You cant forget it. You cant act like it didnt happen, but i think you have to put things in place so that it doesnt happen again. Again, its unfortunate that Something Like this would happen to anyone because i wouldnt want this to happen to anyone. But i think is slows ugly type of culture, subculture in a sense in the nfl. It doesnt happen on every team, but it happened on my team, and you know, as a former player when you see those types of things happen to another player, it hurts. Because this is a guy that you supposed be protecting, this is a guy that you love like your family. When youre on that field people dont see name, they see the dolphin, they see the number that you represent. This is unfortunate that this is happening in our house. Just like coach philbin said, were going to clean it up, and well move forward. And i think he was confident, theyre going to move forward. Something good will come out of it. He just thinks steps need to be put in place to prevent it, but i dont know if youll rid of the hazing. And there is extortion for players to put up money for other players to take vacations and so forth. I noticed he said it doesnt happen on every team. He has played on a few different teams, did i ask him about hazing, he almost talked about it as a rite of passage as football players. Sometimes you have to pay for meals that other players ordered. He would make other players carry his pads but he has never seen things get this far, especially with this racial element to it. I asked him if there was a racial issue in the locker room, he went to say that it wasnt rampant but he said there are a lot of incentive players that are there that take action when nobody else is looking, and thats unfortunate. But did he say that he glad that Jonathan Martin stood up and he used his brain not his brawn to address this situation. As a result he thinks something really good is going to come out of this, and changes will be made. Reporting to us from miami. Ahead on america tonight. Vulnerable targets with weaker weapons. Protesters will look into deadly force coming up next. Im John Seigenthaler with an election up day. Bill de blasio will be the first democratic mayor in 20 years. And Chris Christie will be new jersey governor. And we have america tonight right now. Now snapshot of stories making headline tonight. India launched its First Mission to oh mars. It will be the Fourth International program to fifth mars. Mohamed morsi is doing time in a hospital ward of a high security prison. He was hospitalized for high Blood Pressure and blood sugar and he started this week with a raucous in court. Torontos mayor made a public apology for what he called a drunken stupor. He said that he is not a crack addict and that he will not resign as mayor of canadas largest city. In what might appear as a david versus goliath, they will be able to use deadly force against rock flo throwers alonge mexican border. It was recommended against the deadly policy, but the board of patrol chief said the ban would be too restrictive for his officers. It had been under heavy scrutiny when there were reports that border contro patrol has shot ad killed six people. Jose rodriguez was 16 when he was killed with a bullet through the head by the United States Border Patrol. Nine more shots went into his body. As he lay on the ground in his hometown nogales, mexico. The bullets fired from the top of this cliff in arizona traveled through an International Boundary and int e agent has never been named. He was found on a sidewalk. The report clearly indicate that did he not have any type of weapon in his hand, any type of rock or any type of nothing. He had a cell phone in his pocket. His brother san dieg diego wa shop in the center of town. That night he never made it. Jose antonio was shot to death right here on this street corner. The walls on this Doctors Office is still riddled with bullet holes. The Border Patrols explanation of what happened hinges on the fact that their agent felt threatened by someone throwing walks on this side of the fence. Could a 16yearold boy really threaten someone standing on top of what is at least a 20foot cliff and on the other side of that fence . Whatever took place here that night there are video cameras right there which recorded everything that happened. But the Border Patrol and the fbi have refused to share that surveillance video. So were left to piece together the clues. On the night jose died the Nogales Police report describe board agents pursuing two young men as they climbed the fence back into mexico. At the same time on the sonoran street below the fence, a a man was walking home from work. Where were the agents when you saw them firing . So it would seem that the agents meant to fire at the fleeing men. A questionable use of force to begin with. Jose was just walking down the street as the boys ran away. An attorney took us to the spot where the agents fire from on the u. S. Side. There is no way that the officer on top of this hill was in any kind of danger. First of all, i dont think that he can hurl a rock from where he was over an 18foot fence, which is pure fence. This was 15 shots fired into and at a young man who is just walking down the street. How do you describe that . What is it that took place here . At best, its negligence homicide. At worst it could be murder. Joses death is part of what appears to be a disturbing new trend. U. S. Border patrol agents shooting across the line to kill mexican citizens in their own country. Selma torres son ramsey was killed by an agent in nogales in 2011. The u. S. Government closed the investigation. Selma was never contacted. In 2012 Guillermo Pedroza was picnicking on the banks of the rio grand when he was gunned down by agents. He died in his nineyearold daughters arms. Juan santillaon was shot just two months earlier. In 2011, in tijuana, this man was killed for using his cell phone to record an agent beating an migrant, and shot between the eyes under a bridge in juarez. In each case the board control justified the killing saying they were threatened by rock throwers. But getting them to speak on the record about anything at all proved difficult. Hi bill, calling from al Jazeera America. Were in nogales, arizona, right now. Im just calling to see if we can arrange an interview and a ride along with an agent down here. No. We sent emails about starting six weeks ago. It just seems are a little opaque. Im trying to understand why the request was declined. Whats happened is the Border Patrol being one of the largest Law Enforcement agencies in the country, they work with the population that doesnt work back with them. Theyre not like a police force that is in the same community that has to deal with residents that are upset, that can vote and mobilize against them. Its a population that will be kicked out and wind up in mexico. Because of that there hasnt been any ways in which they have to modify their activities. There is almost no oversight compounded by this idea that this is national security. When you look at a case like antonio, this has nothing to do with national security, right, this doesnt. That report came to us from fault lines a. M. Joining us now is shawn moran, your organization represents members of the Border Patrol . Yes, maam, we represent all 17,000 nonsupervisory agents. Our adversaries on the other side are going to know what our limits are. If they know that we cant shoot rock throwers that are threatening agents or shoot at vehicles that are about to run agents down then well lose Border Patrol agents because theyll uses forbidden techniques against us. If you have a 16yearold kid standing on the other side of the border how dangerous is he to an officer armed with a firearm . He could be very dangerous. Weve had agents hit by rocks, traumatic brain injuries, and injuries that lingered on for years. Its one that could kill an agent. Has any rock throwers been able to kill an agent . Luckily not yet, and hopefully it wont happen. I would certainly hope not but i want to understand how dangerous these rock throwers might be. You know, its hard to understand a kid, 16yearold on the other side of a fence. Well, anybody who thinks rocks arent dangerous havent read the bible because they used to stone people to death. Thats what happens here. Anyone who thinks stones and rocks arent dangerous, come down to the border and see what an agent feels when theyre in that situation. Its into the a good feeling. It is a timing thing . In the heat of the moment there has to be a decision of how much force to us. Our agents are often caught by themselves between two fences with nowhere to go. Were not like a city police where were working out of our vehicles all the time. Our agent versus to make splitsecond decisions, and when they feel that their life is in danger or bodily harm theyre allowed to result to force. And if an agent is hit in the face or head there is a very good chance they could die. We note here that police recommended against continuing this policy. Against being able to use deadly force against rocking, but your organization doesnt agree with that . No, we dont. Weve said for the last three decades that agents should be allowed to use deadly force when theyre threatened and assaulted. I believe the Police Executive Research Form has a slight bias is that its coming from a city policing viewpoint. I dont think that they really have the understanding of what happened on the southwest border. When you talk about a city environment, i can imagine if it were washington, d. C. And we had people throwing things and Law Enforcement on the other side of it, if Law Enforcement used deadly force in that situation, i would imagine we would have rioting in the streets. I think you would. On the border its not uncommon for one agent to arrest ten or more people. In a city environment you would probably have 50 agents or Police Officers there to control the situation. We dont have that luxury. And unfortunately, were often outnumbered and outgunned, and we need to be able to defend ourselves. Are there any statistics about using deadly force . Has it been able to stop or at least slow the number of rockings . We actually use force reluctantly. There are many attacks every day that happen, and some go unreported because they are just so common. There are rocks all along the southwest border, theyre the most readily available weapon. Theyre used to assault, attack Border Patrol agents. Weve asked the Border Patrol to open the books to see how often our agents are assaulted, and youll see how rarely we result to force to defend otherwise. And is it people who are remaining in mexico, theyre not apparently making any attempt at illegal entry. It doesnt matter where youre standing if youre assaulting a u. S. Border patrol agent youre risking your life and you may lose. Shawn moran, we appreciate you being with us and your insight into all this. Thank you. Coming here off the streets and on display. One of these great geniuses that comes along very, very rarely. We meet the curator whose trained eyes have elevated untrained talents from the back roads of the deep south. Sometimes artists only need a chance, maybe a passing glance, for acts of kindness has made up an entire career. He is not an artist himself but he does know a powerful piece when he sees one. An his talented finds have the most interesting and storied tools. [ whistling ] this look like a bunch of material that had been blowing around in the storm or a tornado. Lonnie turns debris into art. [ singing ] art that has been shown in major museums around the country. As you saw me go through all of this stuff to expose it, i was like an inspector, and in a sense i were acting like an archeologist. But just as he finds art others may overlook. It was flat like a mirror. You probably see it. An unusually kind of curator found him. This room is the work of lonnie holly, lonny has always been one of the most important of these africanamerican artists. Meet bill arnett, a curator with a cause. And if he had been, lets just say white living in new york, he would be a celebrity long ago in my opinion. And he will be anyway, but sometimes it takes longer. The art that im involved with is art that compares favorbly with any art that has been produced anywhere on earth in the past hundred years or i wouldnt be involved with it otherwise. Im not fascinated by primitive, naive or folky things. Im interested in the great art of the world, and i spent my life exploring it. Arnett lived and worked overseas for years where he became one of the great experts on art from many cultures. Then he curated for museums across the United States and consulted for museums around the world. Came to realize that we had something in the south equal to all that, truly, genuinely. I realized there was something here that i didnt know about, and neither did anybody else, and it was just lurking out there in the woods. Reporter the 1970s arnett began to travel the back roads of the deep south and discovered art nobody knew about. And i discovered here in the south we had this black culture which had, indeed, been making art since the first slaves got off the boat. Black people were not allowed to have written language and create things publicly for the people that other civilizations do, the way the white civilization did. They made these things secretly and passed on verbally. Reporter lonnie holly introduced him to an artist who would become world renown. Diahl was terribly reluctant to talk to me or talk about his art because he came from a generation that had been taught dont let white people know what youre thinking. Just stay out of sight. Diahl pulled a piece out, and it was the most magazine piec magne of art. I asked if he had anything else, and he is just one of these great geniuses that come along very, very rarely. If god came down and gave me a choice of what to have in a museum i would have kept that. Reporter William Dreyfuss a prominent collector with his own museum. I think this will be a very important painting. It may take a long time to get there, but it should be at the met. Reporter Louie Dreyfuss bought more than 125 of diahls works. Arnett has an understanding of what black america is about. I have a lot of admiration for him. Reporter bill arnett went on to discover dozens of other artists. This is an artist from memphis who died a few years ago. His name was joe light. This is a woman named Mary Tillman Smith who lived in hazel hearse, mississippi. Reporter artists in the art establishment failed to notice even though they were hiding in plain sight. The next artist well come to here is pervis young. He began painting in an alley, in a ghetto of miami. Reporter and bill found artists in an isolated pocket of Rural America in alabama, a place arnett would make famous. Every day we spent it was a sense of discovery. We would meet a new quilt maker that would show us work that had been made 20, 30, 50 years ago, and here it was seeing light for the first time. So we decided to go on a regular basis, and word got around that there were crazy white people paying crazy prices for old tattered stuff. Reporter the quilts were made from old work clothes that had become too worn to wear. Some of the most beautiful things i had seen in my life. I could imagine if some art lover had lived in paris, and lets just say had come upon a picasso or matisse or any of these guys in 1910 and recognized, wow, the history of art is about to change big time, and im here to look at it. Thats the way i felt. Thats exciting. I took it to people. I didnt want it for myself. I didnt want to make money from it. I didnt want to control it. I wanted to just disseminate it. I wanted the information to get out. Reporter arnett introduced artists like lonnie to art collectors, dealers and gallery owners. Oh, bill, bill have allowed my works to be on exhibit for the olympics here in atlanta. He put my works in some of the greater institutions like the United Nations pipe work. My works are in smithsonian because of bill. Reporter arnett introduced thornton diahl to the art world. I think the work is incredible. I think hes work is as great as picasso. The extraordinary contributions reporter arnett had his critics. Those who accused the white art connoisseur who ripped off black artists. Those who accused me of ripping off black artists or profiting from them hurt me. My dad went through many years where it was hard for him to get out of bed. Reporter lonnie holly made it clear what he thought of the charges against bill arnett. Bill arnett did not take advantage of myself. As far as im concerned no other artist. For me he was coming in our lives. He was giving us more for our works of art than we ever received before. He gave us time to actually develop, and also he was taking the time to take the work to the next level for us. Reporter but the rumors scared off the galleries and museums which were about to feature the work that arnett had discovered. The next thing you know diahl cant have a show anywhere, it gets canceled. Reporter it took years but the accusations faded and the art spoke for itself. I didnt quit. Thats my best talent, my unwillingness to give up. Reporter and bill arnett has not given up. The work he has championed is finally getting its due. Articles, museum exhibits, even postage stamps. Lonnie holly finally got a new york show. Im trying to make a joy for noise. Reporter bill arnett is 74 and stepping back a bit from his lifes work but his son matt has picked up the baton still looking out for the artists they discover, still bringing their art to the world. I feel really, really, really good about this. No kidding we feel pretty good about bill arnett, too. Looking ahead on america tonight were going to revisit the dignity colony one of the darkest chapters in latin america history. The colony was a criminal pedophile organization, it was run like a sect. It was a concentration camp of forced labor and sexual abuses. All our families lives have worked and sacrificed here. I have nothing else. So im trying to throw out the bad and take advantage of the good because i feel this place is mine. Reporter the frightening hotbed, the oppressive leader and survivors working to rebuild their lives. Stories coming up on wednesday on america tonight. Till to come, and islands hiphop. We tune in to Young Artists in cuba as they rap for change. Real reporting, this is what we do. Al Jazeera America audiences are intelligent finally from us tonight on an island is music from a new generation. We report from havana, cuba, is uniquely american. [ hiphop music ] it likes to rap about his life, his family, and cuba. [ hiphop music ] his artistic name means the possession man. He says that his music is perceived as a threat. I think that hiphop is not convenient for the government because our society has had the same system for the last 50 years. Our songs can open the hearts and mines of people. We represent what people are silent about. [ music ] in the land of cha cha cha hiphop culture arrived in the 1980s through the radio stations in miami. But it was only in the 1990s when the government authorized the first rap festival. This is the place where cuban rap was born, a Housing Project in the peripheries of havana. Even though rap is not the most popular type of music in cuba young people tell thats they turn to it to express the frustrations of their daily lives. A Graphic Designer who thinks for change. Hes also a government employee, an example that authorities are more open to criticism when it comes to music. Hiphop is a culture of protest that is difficult to develop here for obvious reasons. Even though there is a Government Agency and we get a little help from them. I have to do everything myself. The big problem we face is lack of information. There is almost no internet, and that is a big problem for young people. In spite of the criticism and the lyrics rap is hardly a threat to the government. Mainly because it lacks promotion. Hes trying to change that. In cuba everything is difficult. There are obstacles all the time. We built this studio with a lot of effort. Im working so that wrappers c wraprappers can get more promotion and rap can be herald all around the island. Thats what people would like to see so that young people here can use rap to get their message out. Teresa reporting. Thats it for us here on america tonight. If you would like to comment on our stories log on to our website at www. Aljazeera. Co www. Aljazeera. Com america tonight. And enjoy the conversation with us on twitter or at our facebook page. Tonight well have more america tonight tomorrow. Welcome to al Jazeera America. Im John Seigenthaler in new york. Here are the top stories. The closest and most dramatic race tonight is in virginia. Terry mcauliffe is facing republican Ken Cuccinelli for governor. After three hours after the polls have closed the race is still too close to call. Pundits have painted this contest as a referendum on washington politics. New jersey governor Chris Christie has won another term in office. And christie is widely considered a likely g. O. P. Candidate for president in 2016. Secretary of state john kerry is in israel on a mission to revive the middle east peace talks. Hes scheduled t