The lives of to run a goal will be able to read the record, will be all good porter portal. In this room with the celebrated the world cupboard feels like it has already started. Mm. And that is as al jazeera and these, the headlines ukrainian president brought me as lensky has stressed the need for caution. Following russias announcement that its withdrawing forces from the city of castle chief has warned of possible booby traps and more attacks. As the bag has more from the ground and custom, the ukraine commanders said that they havent ruled that new russian provocation. All the fact that they can actually take this seriously because this thing actions speak louder than words for weeks now. The ukrainians have been saying that russians have been reinforcing their position in her saw that the soldiers, russian soldiers have been putting on civilian coals, taking a position, getting ready for st. Battles and even until last night the ukrainians are saying, yes, the russians have said that they are going to withdraw. But at the same time, theyre putting it, putting an extra troops into that person. Region. Russian president Vladimir Putin wont be attending the g 20 summit and bonnie next week. Russia is expected to face criticism from the west that meeting about the war in ukraine. Moscow says foreign minister, sag elaborate will attend to attend, may appear via video link. Us President Joe Biden has hailed the democrats performance in the mid term elections, calling it a good day for democracy. His party, though could do is controlled by the house senate, but results so far, havent been as bad as it expected. Former pakistan Prime Minister in wrong cause a long march to as im about is expected to resume in the coming hours a week now after he was shot in the leg. Khan is planning to join the march himself when it reaches ro, hindi and punjab. The white House Organisation says access to ethiopia, t grad region, remain stall despite a sci fi idea. Last week, the agencies has millions of people urgently need a after 2 years of conflict. While those are the headlines, ill be back with more news for you here on al jazeera after the stream to stay with us spiraling costs dwindling supplies. The shock is being felt around the world with the war in ukraine, triggering gas supply uncertainty. Europeans are bracing themselves for an unprecedented winter. Al jazeera reports on the human costs of the Winter Energy crisis. With. Hi anthony ok. Thanks for watching the stream. He take a look at my laptop. We can see how it all started. The very 1st tweet ever buy at jack on march 21st 2006. Fast forward talk tobar the 27th of this year. And that is when twitter got a brand new owner. So on todays episode of the stream, we are asking how will twitter thrive on j. E. Long mosque. This is a conversation you are very much out of with you on twitter, or if youre new chief i do you realize the irony of asking you about turned away on youtube. But the Comment Section is right here. Be part of todays ah, we have a panel, a fabulous experts. Hello victoria and jillian and meredith said, good to have all 3 of you here in the conversation. Latoya, please say hello to international audience. Tell them who you are and what you day. Im victoria elliot, and im the platforms and power reporter with wired get daddy. Hello gillian. Say hello to audi. Its around the well, tell them who you are and what you t. Hi, im the director for International Freedom of expression at the Electronic Frontier foundation, a Digital Rights organization. All right, great to having julian am meredith welcome to the string. These introduce yourself to our audience around the world. Thank you for having me. My name is meredith clark. Im an associate professor in journalism and Communication Studies at Northeastern University and boston. All right, ladies. I had to look to see when you all joined twitter, victoria june 2012. Thank you for your service, meredith. Oh, my goodness, 2000. And 9 extraordinary, youve been there for a long time. Gillian, youre virtually an o g u joy. In february of 2008, im going to take some of our viewers back to the very beginning with a little timeline that takes us back to 2060, remember that 1st treat the i short showed you on 2006 to the launch as a micro blogging site. And then in the past 60 years, they have been now an audience of 240000000 active users around the world. Average number of tweets in any one day, 500000000 tweets st in a day. Gillian, youre almost an o g tennis. What youve noticed thats been difference since say the end of october, you getting a sense of Something Different or is it just anxiety . I you know, i think ill be honest and say a lot of it is anxiety. There have been small changes so far. Theres definitely been an emboldening of the right and of people, you know, making racist comments and harassing others on the platform. But in terms of concrete changes internally, weve seen staff laid off, but we havent seen any changes to policies or to content migration practices just yet. Feel that were on the verge of them though. So i do want to say that now if you say that i, i think so, i think i find that interesting because i think it all depends on who you are. The experience that some folks are having, particularly people from structurally marginalized backgrounds, women of color, people of color, l, g, b, i a, folks, they are having a markedly different experience. And while we may say that its anecdotal at this point, they are reporting an uptick in harassment and hateful speech. Im just looking at guy here again is from uganda, and who starts his tweet with ah, its very much uncertain future truth to be taught. Hes here on my laptop here of my laptop. So he does not know, and i think that most so many other twitter users right now, victoria, what can you test concrete that has definite and change in the last few days . Well again, i think obviously it depends on the community are part of and you know, it structurally inside the organization. We know that they dont have nearly as many people who are working on their content policy staff right now. And one of the things that i have heard from people who are outside researchers, who are sometimes in contact with platforms when they find issues. Just Information Networks important, you know, narratives that are spreading is that they dont know who to contact any war about problematic stuff that staying up on the platform. And a really great example of this is brazil, which just had an election, has really been marred by this information around that election that a researcher i spoke to mention that tweets that they might otherwise expect to have been removed or at least would have contacted twitters team about they dont know who to contact and those things upstate up. Marty, who, nanine, youre saying yes, is articulate that, that no. Go ahead. Well, the things that im thinking about are the misinformation and this Information Networks that are not only in brazil and other countries throughout the world. You know, my focus is mostly here on the united states. And were seeing those same things pop up, but perhaps not in the same way, not in the political arena. And those networks have been able to pretty much proceed unimpeded because theyre not as prominent when it comes to some of the bigger topics. So the election in brazil, or particularly the election in se, georgia where folks are still engaging in the bad faith actions that they were taking before. But because its not seen as important or as prevalent, theyre just not getting the same sort of attention at. Its interesting that on youtube, i wouldnt say a talking about whats happening right now. Jillian one view is saying, im confused that will twitter still be safe or would it not be safe . I think the only elements of trends that were very edgy and not safe a tool depending on what community belong to. But that safety aspect, jenny, and what are you expecting to be different . Yes, i mean, as meredith said, twitter was already not safe for a lot of people and i think it is getting worse. But i think that you know, some of the things to look at going forward. The new verification scheme is absolutely something that concerns me. Not just because you know, some of us will have to pay dollars, but there are going to be a lot of people who is tweet. Theyre now not going to make them to the feeds and who for whom verification provided a set of protections. Twitter also getting rid of its Human Rights Team. That team did a lot of work in ensuring that twitter adhered to the un business and human rights principles that teams gone now in its entirety. And so i think a lot of the concerns are that i have are for people in conflict zones and in places where that team had been doing the most work thus far. So shannon had tweets just recently this november, the 4th, have a look here on my laptop. Yesterday was my last day at twitter being, ty, Human Rights Team has been caught from the company. Im enormously proud of the work we did to implement you and guiding price principles on business and human rights to protect those at risk. Go global conflicts and crises, including ethiopia, victoria, what are you hearing from inside twitter . What are you seeing from those Staff Members whove been caught an accident and doing jobs that you dont always associate with a social Media Company, but well definitely happening at twitter. Well, i think theres, you know, there was a big Twitter Spaces for a lot of the people that were laid off last week. And i think the biggest take away that you can hear from all the people who are like, oh is that they were incredibly proud of the work that they were able to do at twitter. And that the culture was something that really supported that. Whether thats their met a team, which is their ethical ai team. You know, that was something that didnt exist at any other company, you know, sort of, big for profit social Media Company was going to invest in studying bias in a i, on their platform in the same way that twitter was. So i think there was something really unique about the willingness of the company to engage with sort of these stores or questions about the role of their platform in modern society and the ethical implications of the work they were doing. And those people are the people who have by enlarge, been cut from the new version of twitter. I think one of the biggest ideas that ill mosque has been sharing a not just recently, but, but over a long period of time when hes been a twitter user. If the idea of free speech and twitter should be a place where free speech can happen, im gillian. You start with what those challenges are an emerge if you take up about the realities. Tilly stuff. Sure. So, you know, ive been looking at twitter is role in the, in the as the, the public square, so to speak. For many years im in twitter started off of the platform that, you know, called itself the free speech wing of the free speech party. Back in 2012 and then over the years recognized the role that it played with respect to, you know, curbing harassment, fighting terrorism in all sorts of other things, including this information which has been brought up a few times. So i think that now you know, what you on mosque is trying to do isnt necessarily the same version of free speech that the us would put out. Not that, you know, hes not looking to align it better with, with International Human rights framework. Hes looking to amplify certain voices to, you know, yes, hes talked about getting rid of thoughts in span, but ultimately i think that by failing to fight this information, failing to fight some, some of our other societal ills. And then also at the same time saying he is, you know, he wants to adhere to the laws of the land and every country in which they operate. Well, what does that mean for you . There is in saudi arabia, for example, let it. Yeah, i just, i dont see that working very well for ill on my can. In fact i sort of characterize the way he talks about re speech as really being a can to opening up chaos. I think it provides the civic, less than for all of us. You know, here, particularly in the u. S. Where twitter was founded, free speech has to do with the government inability to intervene in something that someone says or something that they post, unless it is directly harmful or hateful. If its one of those prohibited forms of each. What you, im talking about is giving free reign to people who have disproportionate areas of power. Disproportionate reaches the power to say what they want to. And he hoped this on the platform that belongs to a private company where folks can say whatever they want. And they can rest assured that the private company isnt going to weigh in on that. Thats very different than keeping the government from intervening and saying you can or cannot express yourself. You can or cannot petition your government for a redress of grievances. Its quite different for someone to be able to say whatever wild and outlandish or even off thing that they want to say versus someone perhaps engaging and important political speech that speaks truth to power. But tory, theres some engagement the i swatted a few days ago which made me smile. It will show you the tweet is right hale, my laptop, the mask treated out. The bird is free. And then from europe, when you have in europe, the broad will fly by our e. You rose and this is the Digital Strategy act. I believe. I just double check that, but its basically laws that in europe make sure that what is happening online is in line with what would happen offline as well. There are rules the regulations, victoria, do you feel that maybe mosque and what happening to right now is in a little bubble and then not seeing the whole world of to it just a little bit of twitter that they say. I definitely think that, you know, before he was the owner of twitter even was a super user of the platform. And he definitely thinks about the platform in that way that this is a place where one would come to broadcast their message and they wouldnt necessarily want to be censored. But most twitter users are not like them. A lot of people lurk and get information. Theyre not necessarily heavy content creators, as we might call them and another platform. And i think its also really important to note in a global sense that twitters conception of free speech is often much broader than a lot of the company. The countries, im sorry, that it operates and that can be problematic as we see in the us. But it also can be incredibly important. For instance, in india, twitter has actually filed a suit in the car, not a court to protect the free speech of it, to users to resist government orders to take down tweets and accounts that the b j. P. Government has that are a threat to Indian Security and sovereignty. And you know, similarly its protection of anonymity in countries like saudi has allowed to sit in people from marginalized communities to have a voice in a way that they might not otherwise be able to have through traditional media. And so its what is particularly interesting is that musk has this very sort of americanized view of free speech, where in our country its sort of like anything that is not illegal can stay on the platform. But the reality is that whats legal is varies from place to place. And in many places, you know what free speech means for, for twitter is actually been really helpful for journalists and for activists. And if youre going to abide by the laws of the land in those places, those are voices. Youre also going to silence them. That seems very odd. And in terms of his commitment to free speech that hes been very vocal, i went to think i had really quickly. Yeah. Married. And then its not just, you know, an american idea of free speech, but its a partisan idea of free speech. Eli musk, it seems to be very much aligned with folks that are more right wing here in the united states. And that concerns me frankly. Might he adapt the same sort of positions in, say, brazil, or in india, where we have seen tendencies for governments to a doesnt matter if one pass. And although he has a huge following on twitter and he owns twitter, has those fees because twitter is more than 1. 00 person, isnt it . No, i think so much more than one per. Yeah. Im to the rest of us. Its not actually one pass and maybe like getting this out of proportion. Monica no, no his, his reach and has power is what is disproportionate. Were talking about a billionaire who had the ability to borrow. Lets be clear enough money to buy this platform. That is networked among a number of journalistic systems. I think thats one of the things that we tend to downplay that we Pay Attention to the individuals on the platform, but not the connections that the individuals are part of. Now, at the helm of twitter, you must, is at the center of a lot of journalism. And were journalists look for information where they connect with sources. And where they publicize that information and having him in there and not abiding by any sort of rules or conventions that we are used to, or that we can even predict. This is someone who has been so unpredictable as to say that he would cut off the Internet Access to ukraine that he was provide providing for that rosa that the Online Community pushed back and then he changed his mind to. That is the power of the masses as opposed to the individual. So theres, theres going to be a conversation thats going to go backwards and forwards. Its going to be drama filled, but it will be a conversation. Maybe just say gillian before i come to the essays, Digital Services at which is important. If youre in europe and youre online gillian, go ahead. Im gonna ask you to make it brief because i also want to get the idea of how does to, to make money is not even possible filling youd fs. Sure. Yeah. Happy to make it read. I mean, i just wanna go back to something that was said about free speech because its true, of course, that twitter is a private company to do what it wants. But were looking at a moment where press freedom is on or is im backsliding over the world and what twitter is done for so many users, including a lot of the activists that i work with, has provided a platform where they dont have another platform within their country and so yes, i mean i, i think we got, you know, free speech and the 1st amendment kind of confused a little while ago in that free speech does. For me, it is something that exists on these platforms to, especially when theyre not other spaces for speech. So lets talk about making money. And if that is even possible for a social media site like twitter. So steve is watching right now from the u. K. Im still staying with twitter, he says, but i will never pay for it. Ah, oh no, its hillary is that bad news . If people just pay for this, why should i . Well, i think, you know, that is something that must, is currently trying to figure out. He just hosted a Twitter Spaces which was open, but specifically geared towards advertisers where, you know, he said, i think if people have to pay 8. 00 a month or if theres sort of a price of admission that perhaps people wont be as mean to each other. Wont be as aggressive, there is much so much hate speech. So, you know, theres, i think theres right now theres a scramble to try and find ways to make money. Particular be particularly because the advertisers have been so concerned. And this goes back to sort of his vision of free speech have been so concerned about the type of content up there ads may run next to. And so for twitter generally, there were even before mosque took over there were some criticisms about it, not innovating. C enough to make money. Obviously it bought vine and vine was very popular, video sharing platform and, and that died. So, you know, there have been sort of previous criticisms of the company not taking opportunities to build out other revenue streams. And realistically, a lot of other platforms, they look to content creators like instagram or tick tock, influencers as a way to sort of bring money onto the platform. So i think those will also be on the table as well. And at least what it seems like right now is that, that 8. 00 a month may not be for everybody, but he has floated a sort of suggestion of a soft paywalls platform where maybe everyone has to pay to get in. We dont know yet. And he does if and if nothing else seemed to be responsive, as you mentioned earlier, to push back from users or from particularly vocal people. And we also dont know who is whos talking to him behind the scenes. Yes. You are actually on a Twitter Space here just before we got onto the air at a loss was in that Twitter Space. What did he say . Anything . It was newsworthy, the think . Oh, i think again its, its mostly about quelling advertiser concerns. Office wayne. Okay. And you know, one of the things he said was, you know, every, if you have to attach a phone number and a credit card to every account, itll be much harder for trolls and misinformation didnt permission campaigns to operate on the platform. But, you know, many of these people are very smart operators. They can find ways around these things, credit card of it, or is that i dont believe it, or what could you possibly resolve or not . I was, i was on twitter at the weekend and something really made me feel good about the communities that im part of. And the hash tag, which is black twitter. And i was no for about 6 hours because i went down that rabbit ho and didnt come out again. But what was beautiful about this and, and its the same for science, twitter, people with disabilities to do an eligibility, q i o. Plaster is that the communities have power, im boy each other up support each of the tao stories she had knowledge. I was so encouraged, meredith, because what people were saying is that we created a lot of this content that is fantastic and exciting. And the reason people come here is because of what we do in this space. Were not going anywhere. We are sticking around. What do you make it . I mean, i expect for users who consider themselves part of black twitter to stay for a number of reasons. Theyre saying theyre not going Something Like mastodon because they will be siloed, essentially, into the different servers that method on uses to sort its user. One of the things that troubles me about the resilience that black twitter has is that at the same time of recognizing that we do contribute so much to the platform, theres a lot thats also extracted from black twitter and there is no credit. There is no capital, there is no sort of recognition or how much value, black people, black communities and black culture poured into this platform. And frankly, with an owner like you must, someone whos companies have come under scrutiny for the kind of culture, the hostile culture that theyve created around black workers. I have deep concerns about what that means for black users who decide to remain on the platform. I want to actually bring in a voice that takes us into a global perspective for what it does beyond the united states. And banga spoke to us a little bit earlier. Have a nice and have a lot. One of the things that we have actually found is that the platform lends itself to easy to allowing malicious actors to see the narratives into these will be standing section and is something that we have completely been unable to plan. A team, especially over the past 2 years in many countries across africa. Secondly, the platform is full of widespread harassment. Not only of journalism activists, but even celebrities. Just think about the number of celebrities that usually end up seeing that look, im getting this platform. Im done with the toxicity of this thing, and im not going to do it anymore. And i worry that to the direction that its going, you know, with integrating private and huge levels of content, moderation. Interesting. See that these things are eventually going to get was the avenues for accountability for the platform by actually shrinking, and that is something that should work. Yes. I guess we have so many questions for our new chief audience. So this is gonna be the speed around you have less than 30 seconds to answer all of those questions. Victoria and volunteering you festival we did in must dismiss. So many workers. What are your thoughts about that . Very briefly, he has always been publicly critical of the content, moderation, trust and safety teams. And so i think those lay offs seemed somewhat inevitable and also hes trying to make twitter profitable. He you know, took a significant financial hit to buy the platform. And i think the layoffs are also a way of trying to figure out how to keep him from losing money on tighter or the trying. Im getting another quick question. Im going to put this one to you. This one comes from stephen. He says out is the area is and left the cesspool. Thank you for the compliment. All right, you cheer compliments. Thank you. Content moderation hastings is the same as before. On twitter mosque is simply allowing free speech as guaranteed by the u. S. Constitution. Meredith, briefly fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech means by a company cannot promote the freedoms that are, is gone in the 1st amendment. Those freedoms are upheld by our government government. What were looking at when we talk about 1st amendment freedoms and the rights to free speech, is the right to keep the government from interfering in what you have to say. If you, i must decide tomorrow that someone with an opinion on the platform should go. They will just ask kathy griffin. All right, so victoria joined in 2012 gillian joined in 2008 murder. If joined in april 2009. Yes, i will be leaving any time soon. No, im with black twitter. Ill be here until its time to turn the lights off with doria. Im not leaving, but ill probably also have a master on account. Oh and julia. Im splitting my time. Im staying on twitter because so many of the International Activists that i follow are still using it to get attention. Thank you. Guess. Thank you, the chief, ill see you next time. Take. Ah, it is the professional duty of journalists to report the truth accurately and impartially. But to do so in mexico, they must 1st be successful at staying alive. As fatal attacks on journalists continue to rise full plans, reports on the risks they confront. In one of the deadliest countries in the world for those, bringing the troops to light silenced the killing of journalists and mexico on a jersey. The climate has changed every year for millions of years, decades of talk, but little action is all about distract, create confusion to crate, smoke and mirrors. The shocking truth about how the climate debate has been systematically, some photos, the oil industry was a main bank roller or opposition to climate action. The campaign against the climate. Do you think thats a bad thing more to, to have dealt with things . Absolutely. On august eve, hong kong was once celebrated as a beacon for press freedom in asia. But as china tightens its grip on the city journalist fair, they can no longer speak truth to power journalists and media organizations like world us, half so respect and comply with them all in 2019 increasing fears that china was eroding hong kong autonomy and judicial independence, spot, months of massive, sometimes violent protests. The National Security law, which criminalizes terrorism, secession, subversion, and collusion with Foreign Forces was introduced in 2020. It might be a conclusion talking to you now, accepting your interview. It has become a dangerous depression. That dangerous occupation for people who are still interested in porting the facts. Ah